#op who says *in those movies* 'freedom is the right of all sentient beings | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

wolfiefics · 4 years

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To all the fans of Steve Rogers who persist that Steve was in the right during Civil War, consider this:

Your argument that after the events of Winter Soldier he lost faith in the US government, why did he stay? Why did he not renounce his US citizenship and try elsewhere? He likely had enough ties with another country, either of familial origin or one he helped liberate during WWII, to do so. Why did he stay? Why did he continue being an Avenger? Living by US society rules put in place and maintained by the government he no longer believed in? If you can answer that in a logical way that isn't knee-jerk high-mindedness, I'll concede it.

If he was right to go against the Accords because "they stifled his freedom" then you are advocating the same mindset of the people taking guns into government buildings in an attempt to terrorize officials into not wearing protective gear designed to save the lives of themselves, their family and their fellow citizens AS IS IN THE US CONSTITUTION CHARTER. Or you are the one calling the police on someone for doing something you don't like, lying about it to make it wrong when that person was doing nothing wrong to begin with? You just didn't like them for some reason, they have to go away. FREEDOM is not a gift. It's not a thing that everyone has. EVER. Not even in the US at the time of the American Revolution. Freedom is a CONCEPT, an ideal to reach for. A utopian dream. The very nature of human civilization NEGATES freedom by its very existence. You want "freedom"? I can rob, rape, murder, enslave, and destroy everything I want to because I'm FREE to do so! No one can tell me what to do! You're the victim? Not my problem! Maybe you should be bigger, meaner, carry a bigger weapon or have more people in your side. FREEDOM is ANARCHY, lawlessness, and disrespecting others wants and needs for whatever you want to have withoutrestrictionsof moral conscience instilled by society (i.e. laws and government).

Society, civilization, has rules for a reason. So that shit DOESN'T happen. You don't follow the rules? You're a criminal. Since the Law Codes of Hammurabi its been this way (before that, those are just the first known written laws). Rules can be amended, recodified, or completely rewritten as your society and culture expands intellectually, technologically or in accordance of getting along with another culture different from yours. They aren't concrete (I was going to say "written in stone but some actually were...aforementioned Hammurabi law codes for example).

But to argue that Steve Rogers was right to IGNORE the rules and laws and do whatever he wanted because he was "betrayed" by the government is ignorant, elitist bullshit. He had NO RIGHT to do that. Attempt to dissuade, argue down or compromise, yes, definitely. But give it the middle finger and stomp off in a snit and do whatever HE thinks is right? He's no longer a law-abiding citizen who has EARNED the rights of his society. He has turned his back on them. I'm not saying the Accords were right (though they had a strong argument for it) but everyone tried to tell him "do this now, we'll wiggle it around til it's more acceptable. If not, they are going to ram it down our throats or throw us in a dark dank corner and forget we're there". But noooo! Steve was too good for that! The petty concerns of almost the entire world is not his problem! HE knows better than ANYONE what's right and what's wrong! Fuck them! He was not interested in compromise, trying to work a deal, nothing. He saw it as oppression and done! And that's how all of you who say he's in the right feel too. 112 out of 128 countries have no RIGHT to feel threatened! What's their problem anyway? It’s not like the Avengers destroyed an entire country! Oh wait.. well it's just some backwater Eastern bloc country, no big loss. And part of South Africa. And an entire floor of visiting humanitarian and diplomat workers. No big deal. The UN should just suck it up. Steve knows what he's doing.

All governments have laws a person doesn't like. Nature of the beast. You might get away with bending it on occasion, depending what it is. But if your actions breaking it means ending the lives of others or compromising/destroying their property or culture because "I'm right, you're wrong"? Bigotry. Elitism. Holier than thou. Entire civilizations have vanished for that and we know little to nothing about them because that attitude meant no one cared to note it. Those civilizations could have cures for, I don't know, CANCER!!? (Medicine Man with Sean Connery is awesome. You should watch it).

The first rule EVERY writer learns when writing about sentient beings is there are good things and there are FLAWS. There is no such thing as perfect. If you have a perfect person who can do no wrong, makes no mistakes, just rolls through life getting everything they want without effort...why would you want that? It's boring. It's unrealistic. Why is this persistent idea that everything Steve does is right and just and morally incorruptible? Sounds like some asshole that needs a bullet in the brain before he decides to kill ME for getting in his way. Most of you don't write him in your own fics that way. Why on EARTH do you think he's perfect in the movie verse? Is he not fictional? Is he not a character in a story? Is he somehow exempt in the movies of all writing conventions?

Civil War is easily the worst of the MCU movies. The potholes are so large you can hyper drive the Deathstar through them. Too many to go into here. That's a whole nother rant. But this movie is the basis of this fan idea that Steve can do no wrong and anyone who opposed or argued with him are immoral, arrogant and oppressive...or government doormats. REALLY?! It's obvious Steve trusts NO ONE. Not Sam, whose life he continually puts in danger with very little remorse. Nat, who has been at his side since two weeks after he woke in the 21st century, fought aliens, was on an elite task force with (two in fact), etc ad nauseum but since she DARED to disagree with him, she's obviously not to be trusted. And he was hyper focused on two things:Bucky and Peggy. Peggy, he moped and brooded over, punishing himself for a trick of Fate. FOR YEARS. And Bucky, who was such an obvious distraction that Hydra knew it was a HUGE weak spot and CONTINUALLY used it against him at the expense of other people's lives that Steve apparently didn't give two shits about or even attempted to modify that weakness. How many legitimate, under cover S.H.I.E.L.D. agents were exposed world-wide when Nat laid bare every record of S.H.I.E.L.D.? Not even a flicker of remorse from Steve. Made this big patriotic speech to the Triskellian but not one single mention at all in the planning of those people. None. Cannon fodder. So sad, too bad, ah well! Gotta save Bucky!! Same in Civil War. Steve headed that op in Africa. He ordered and helped gather the Intel on Crossbones and his gang. He made the plan, placed an unstable high-powered individual ALONE in the field with Nat telling her what to do over an ear piece (and Wanda blew her off), as soon as Crossbones blew Steve's strategy, he went gung-ho through a major, heavily populated marketplace, confronted the enemy, IMMEDIATELY got compromised by the word "Bucky" and allowed Crossbones to set off a suicide vest. If Wanda hadn't been there, Steve and that entire block would have been decimated. Wanda did her best, but she was not up to snuff and lives were lost anyway. Did Steve show remorse? No. He brooded that Rumlow said "Bucky and I was 16 again". He told Wanda essentially that it's regrettable but not to worry about it. Those dead people due to his hard-on to get Rumlow? All those lives of diplomats and humanitarian workers gone? No big whoop. Sad but you know, Steve's perfect so they just had to die. He willingly and uncaringly put people in harm's way that got them killed that with a cool head and better planning (or compromise with others ideas) could have been avoided. That's the making of a sociopath. A monster. NOT someone who should be in charge of an elite team that defeated an ALIEN INVASION HEADED BY A GOD.

Think about this. I loved the Winter Soldier. I think it's in my top 5 MCU movies. Other than the exposure of who knows how many legitimate S.HI.E.L.D agents who may have been in the middle of stopping child slavery rings or something, it's an excellent film. Civil War? Garbage. Utter garbage. Trash. They had a good plot, the Hydra super soldiers, that could have been action packed, exposed Bucky's whereabouts, had a big fight scene, had Tony learning Steve had been omitting how his parents died and still had Zemo taken down and the Avengers break up. Set it up even. Those soldiers were shot off screen as this confusing red herring. Why even mention them if you're just going to shoot them off-screen like an afterthought? Hmm. I should write that. I may have too, if someone hasn't done it already. If so, DM me the link?

But get away from this "Steve Rogers can't be wrong cuz he's Captain America" schtick. Bad enough Civil War turned him into a callous, selfish tool. Don't make the situation worse for him.

I love my Stucky, don't get me wrong. I'll die on this ship. But Civil War is NOT the Steve Rogers characterization you need to be advocating as the ideal. In that movie, he's an asshole and if Peggy or 1930s Bucky knew what he'd done, they'd have BOTH punched him. Maybe more than once. And withheld his dessert at dinner.

I'm just saying.

#steve rogers is not perfect #civil war was hideous #unpopular rant I'm sure #hate at me I'll probably not notice #i rarely look at my messages

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machi-kun · 5 years

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"Iron Man 1 gets quoted so much but are you really telling me that a self-proclaimed genius needed to be directly hurt by his weapons to know that innocent people were hurting over them too? There’s no way to make weapons and be good, there’s no way to make weapons like Jericho and believe that no innocents are being hurt by them. We constantly hear about how he stopped making weapons after Iron Man 1, but he didn’t. (1/6)

He just made weapons for different people. He made Insight for S.H.I.E.L.D., made Ultron for himself, and that’s not to mention the ridiculous amounts of weapons we’re shown in the tower scene in Homecoming, that if he made that weapon for S.H.I.E.L.D. he’s likely to have made others. Tony also pushes the Accords, which are in violation of several human rights, on the Avengers simply because someone walked up to him and said “my son is dead and I blame you”. (2/6)

Imagine having to be told to your face that an American died as a consequence of your ridiculous murder bot so that you care enough to do something about it. Because he knew people had died in Sokovia but did nothing about it until a photo was shoved in his face. There’s no excuse for Tony teaming up with Ross. A man who drove Bruce Banner to attempt suicide. There’s no excuse for Tony restricting Wanda to the compound and calling her “a weapon of mass destruction”. (3/6)

There’s no excuse for him shooting Sam in the chest after Rhodey falls. There’s no excuse for him bribing blackmailing and kidnapping Peter. There’s no excuse for the vicious way in which he attacks Bucky. He never apologizes for Ultron, he says “and then Ultron, my fault” in Civil War and then in Endgame he brings it up and claims he was right, even though Ultron was a disastrous occurrence. (4/6)

He blames Stee for breaking up the Avengers when Tony himself brought the Accords upon them and then pushed Steve away when he chose to help Bucky, Sam, Wanda, Clint, Scott instead of giving up the glory of being a hero. Tony probably only asked Steve to choose between the shield (being Cap) and Bucky (keeping his family, and I mean all of them not just Bucky, safe) because in Iron Man 3 he gets rid the Arc Reactor, symbolically giving up Iron Man for Pepper and then he doesn’t stick to it (5/6)

And he thought Steve would choose the same way. His monologue in the beginning of Endgame was pretty much just Hydra rhetoric, he says “what we needed was a suit of armour around the world whether it impacted your precious freedoms or not”. Our “precious freedoms” are a human right, Tony Stark has no claim to them. Not to mention that a suit of armour around the world would have done jack shit to stop Thanos or the snap.“ Machi, I do not know if I cry or laugh. (6/6)

OH MY GOD. OOOOH MY GOD. OOOOOOHHHH. MYYY. GODDDDDD.

I don’t… Honestly, thank you for sending me this in ask format because I don’t know what I would have done had I seen this on my dash out of nowhere. I honestly can’t imagine what my reaction would’ve been. I’VE REMOVED ANTIS SO EFFICIENTLY NOTHING BUT THE PUREST LOVE FOR TONY STARK CROSSES MY DASH, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

I tend not to interact with antis in any capacity because people who hate a character usually don’t hear to what other people have to say about that character, even if it’s in a calm, polite, and perfectly reasonable manner. My only interactions with antis have been on occasions where they come to me, not the other way around, and that’s why this kind of stuff doesn’t even bother me anymore.

Because I don’t get it. I truly, honestly don’t get their logic. I guess laughing is my pick, because I don’t waste no tears on something like this akdhkajshfkjashfh

Let’s go over this, shall we? For some lighthearted fun.

The weapons manufacturer argument always sounded weird to me - it sounds like a very standard anti-military speech; Which I could get, if that criticism were ever extended to the other military characters, such as Rhodey, the entirety of SHIELD, and Steve himself. Because… you know… the soldier in super soldier is not just a cool nickname. Steve is also part of this war based system and people seem to be very forgetful of that fact. If you want to be angry about Tony enforcing war indirectly, don’t forget to spare some of that anger of yours for the other characters too! Make sure everyone gets their share! Oh, but Steve only wanted to protect the little guy, you say? Did you fall asleep when Tony says “I saw young Americans killed by the same weapons I build to protect them”? Is the use of the word Americans that bothers them? Enough to ignore everything else this sentence is composed of, including meaning? Also, personal morality aside - Tony is not, in any way, a war criminal or profiteer, as many antis like to put it. He is a legalized, certified weapons manufacturer, and all unlawful use of his weapons seen on screen is caused by Obadiah’s double-dealing. Ever since IM1.

And I can’t wrap my head around getting angry about a character that makes weapons in a universe where aliens are constantly knocking at your door asking if they can blow up your planet! What are you going to fight them with? Please, someone, give me an answer, because I can’t come up with any ideas.

Ultron. Aaaah, I love talking about that garbage of a movie. I also don’t understand why people pin Ultron on Tony as if Tony has intentionally made Ultron evil, when the thing inside the Mind Stone is what makes Ultron sentient, and when Tony builds Ultron with the help of Bruce with the intentions of, and I quote, “not letting the next alien get past the bouncer”. It’s the same speech, “weapons are bad! He made a weapon, so he is bad!”. But again, if weapons are not the things we’re gonna use against aliens, against Thanos, what will we use?! The Infinity Stones? Ultron was made of Infinity Stones! Where is the logic in that! I know, we’ll clock Thanos in the head with a frying pan, that’ll solve the problem akjdaslkfalskf No more weapons, everybody. We’ll just close the doors and windows and pretend we’re not home. Let’s get into a fistfight against Thanos, the huge ass purple alien, when that alien beat the shit out of the Hulk once with no problem! I’m sure that will work out just fine!

But by far, my favorite thing about antis arguments is the use of the Accords as a justification for demonizing Tony, when there is no evidence the Accords are a bad thing! No, for real! Not one! It’s all speculative! I’m sure a lot of people immediately draft comparisons between the Accords and SHRA, but the truth is, they couldn’t be more different! It’s not even that hard to realize this, so long as you’re paying attention to the canon cues. If the Accords where SHRA, Clint would’ve received a copy. So would have Scott, Hank Pym, every single enhanced person in the Agent of SHIELD series, every single superhuman. But they don’t! Only active-duty, currently present Avengers. So it’s not a register of every single individual, only of those who are currently working under Avenger’s jurisdiction. Second, it’s hysterical to me that someone would be angry that Tony is supposedly prioritizing American lives, but is okay with unauthorized American military intervention. Because that’s what the Avengers are! They are a government-endorsed and based paramilitary group, a special unit. It makes sense that they, a specialized team, are sent to deal with alien threats, because no country has a say in the legality of who gets to take the alien to court. So that’s not a problem. But when you go to a country to chase a specific person, a totally human person, without permission and you bring your special ops team with you, destroy some buildings, and then act like you didn’t do anything wrong - that is something people tend not to like, ya know.

It gets to a point that the hate becomes a total lack of empathy. “It’s not fair that people are acting like Wanda is a threat. It was an accident!”. Had a person I love been in that building, would it matter to me if it was an accident or not? “Clint was fighting for his right to freedom, even if he didn’t read the Accords! He has the right to freedom!”. He sure does. How was his freedom endangered, exactly? By this document he never was prompted to sign? “The Accords are a violation of your right to freedom!”. Are they? Is a person forbidding you from entering their home if they fear you might destroy it, is that an infringement of your right to freedom? Do you have the freedom to go anywhere you please and do whatever you think it’s right, even if it destroys someone else’s property, or wound or kill someone, so long as you did what you had to do? “He has no right to lash out against the people who have murdered his parents or almost killed his best friend! They didn’t mean to!”. Oh, doesn’t he? Is he not allowed this distressed emotional response? Alright then. Where was that rage when Wanda, Toomes, and so many others blamed Tony for the weapons Obadiah sold without Tony’s consent?

I don’t have time for this double-standard. I’m gonna be here sipping on my loving Tony Stark juice and having fun with my complex and well-written faves, while antis marinate in their hate for 25 minutes on low heat. Wake me up when it’s time to kill Thanos with a wooden spoon or with a petition for him to leave. One of the two lksahfakshfskajfhkjsf

#we love respect and appreciate tony stark in this household #tony stark #mcu #machi replies #zeto1304 #ask

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