#one would think after four years of reading me yelling at Zuko and Iroh you'd be tired of it by now

[seyaryminamoto]

While I agree that I would've loved to see Zuko and Azula get along more, and I still do want that, but honestly, I don't think that anyone will disagree that Azula's behavior was far worse when she got older. This isn't me ripping on her, because I really do love her, but Ozai corrupted almost any good that she had in her. At that point in time, I agreed with Iroh. She needed to go down. I still have some hope for her redemption, but she was a danger, and needed to be stopped at that time.

PSA: THIS IS A RANT THAT CRITICIZES FANDOM BELOVED CHARACTERS. NOT BECAUSE I’M RANTING ABOUT IT DOES IT MEAN YOU’RE NOT ALLOWED TO LOVE THEM. THIS IS NOT A BLOG FOR PROMOTION OF NON-PROBLEMATIC CONTENT, NEVER HAS BEEN NEVER WILL BE. I AM NOT PRETENDING MY FAVES ARE BETTER HUMAN BEINGS THAN YOURS. OKAY? OKAY. CARRY ON.

… Actually, I think literally everyone I know disagrees? o_O

I mean, it’s 11-year-old Azula who celebrates Zuko getting burned (for whatever her reasons, it’s very debated, as you might know). 14-year-old Azula doesn’t thrive in Zuko’s pain until her breakdown, which I THINK everyone acknowledges as her not-normal status, where she basically wants revenge for Zuko “stealing” everything she thought was rightfully hers. So, in regards of “basking in suffering”? There’s literally no solid evidence for it when she’s older, which is why everyone uses the Agni Kai as evidence to call her a sadist and then have no other examples for it. Azula has lots of chances to put people through worlds of pain if she feels like it, but she never takes them. Even after taking Zuko captive in the Crossroads of Destiny, she inflicts ZERO damage on him. So? Is she really worse at 14 than she was at 11?

Throughout Book 2 she tries to capture Zuko and Iroh, never kill them. Back when she was 9, she was amused by the idea of Zuko getting adopted by an Earth Kingdom family while at 14 she’s offering him the chance to come home. I’d think there’s a difference, and not quite a negative one. Even if “the redemption she offered was not for him”, it’s still Azula giving Zuko a chance to return to his family and homeland, as fucked-up a family as it may be, instead of thinking it’s hella fun for Zuko to live like a peasant and be cut off from his family and everything he knows. Again, I don’t see how she’s worse at 14.

Though I’ll say, just in case, that if you’re one of those people who think she could see the future and somehow predicted that Aang wouldn’t die because Katara had magic water (for the billionth time, she had no realistic way of knowing this, and this is the only reason why she could have suspected Aang would survive because it’s the only reason why Zuko suspected it in the first place), if you think that she planned everything ahead long before the turtle-duck pond scene, then I don’t think we’ll see eye to eye in many regards, if any at all…

If you’re also thinking about how she burns Iroh in The Chase, as most her actions in Books 2 and 3, she was doing it for a purpose. She needed to escape, Iroh’s the one that got distracted. If anyone else had been distracted instead, she would have gone for them instead, I’m sure of it.

BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, BECAUSE I JUST KNOW IT WENT FORGOTTEN:

Iroh escaped violently too back in Book 1 from a group of Earth Kingdom soldiers who had rightfully taken him prisoner when he had his guard down. I don’t see the difference between either situation. If Iroh and Zuko get to team up, burn and crush five Earth Kingdom men (who may just have had good reasons to despise Iroh for his siege to Ba Sing Se, just like Iroh and Zuko had good reasons to run away from Azula), why the heck is it such a horrible crime when Azula did it? Is it because she did it to a named, beloved character but when Iroh did it, it was to a random Earth Kingdom soldier?

Just to remind you, since this is an old episode people tend to forget, at one point Iroh even set up a trap so a soldier would “tighten his shackles”, overheated his left shackle and burned the guy’s hand, AND KEPT HIS HAND PRESSED TO THE SHACKLE, BTW, to make sure he got burned! Afterwards, shoots a lot of fire at an ostrich horse so he can cause a distraction and escape, but he fails anyways and that’s when the soldiers decide he’s too dangerous as he is. Now, how is his course of action any different from what Azula did to him and to the Gaang? How aren’t we having discussions on how awful Iroh’s actions are, but this is ALWAYS an argument people bring up to say Azula is awful…?

My opinion? We should start measuring characters with the same scale, same measure tape. If this is something we forgive of Iroh’s, then it makes no sense for it to be something we can’t forgive of Azula’s. All it really means is people are less willing to forgive her than they are to forgive him.

After all this evidence, I don’t think she got any worse with age, nor do I think that at 14 she’s a worse person than a lot of people the Gaang met. I mean, I really don’t know where you’re getting that idea about her being worse when she’s older… I mean, what, she’s better at manipulation? She’s more efficient about the things she does? She’s more goal-oriented? 9yo Azula literally talks about her grandfather and uncle dying as casually as can be, I see no such behavior in 14yo Azula until her breakdown, which is the only point where she starts wanting Zuko dead (given how frustrated Zuko is when Azula doesn’t plummet to death, though, I don’t think she’s the only one who wanted to be an only child).

Long story short, Anon, I see no excuse for Iroh’s comment. Especially when you see him dismissing and treating Azula as less important than Zuko from as early as in picking out presents for his niece and nephew. I see no excuse for Iroh trying to spare his own potentially conflicted feelings when it comes to fighting his own brother, who is WORSE than Azula, while having groomed Zuko perfectly into being ready to fight his sister 24/7. 

She was a hazard and needs to be stopped is an argument I’ve seen used countless times to justify Iroh and Zuko being merciless towards her, btw. May I remind you, though… both Zuko and Iroh end up as her prisoners at different points in time. Then she takes them home, mission accomplished. That’s it. That’s what she did to them at the time. That’s what her threat amounted to. Zuko goes unharmed altogether. Iroh gets treated worse by the creep-ass Warden than he does by Azula. So, she was a hazard? She was a problem? She needed to be stopped? Uh, let me translate that: she was their foil, she was on a mission that they needed to keep her from fulfilling. Just as Azula was a danger to them, Zuko was a danger to Aang in Book 1 (and still part of Book 2). Why doesn’t anyone ever claim he needs to be stopped, that he’s a menace, that he’s a terrible person for all that? It doesn’t happen in-story, ever. When Katara is being super distrustful of him in Book 3, she’s framed as in the wrong about him and takes aaaaaaaaaaall of it back before long. So, why the double standard? Is it because Zuko’s not as effective as his sister? Because his persistence is apparently a good trait, but in Azula it’s the mark of evil?

Really, stop to look at Azula’s POV for a while. Watch the show from where she’s standing. Literally, her every action from Book 2 to 3 (until her breakdown) has a reason, she doesn’t do anything for free. Even her threat to Ty Lee, horrible as it was, came from her deciding to change her tactics and settling on Ty Lee and Mai as her new companions. It proves she’s not going to stop at anything, yes, but she had a purpose. Ty Lee would have stayed happy, unthreatened, in her circus, if only Ozai didn’t tell Azula to find and bring Iroh and Zuko home. It’s because of her mission that Azula drags her out of there. EVERYTHING she does is because of the mission in Book 2. By Book 3, it’s about keeping the Fire Nation on top, and about defeating the threats against it. She literally lets the Gaang get away when she could have chased after them on that blimp she was on at the end of the episode, maybe attacked them from it (especially since Appa was carrying too many people and wouldn’t fly too far like that). She chooses not to, because the battle is over. She won. Why would she need to do anything else? 

Also, literally none of the adults who were taken prisoners look harmed, so the Fire Nation didn’t treat them poorly. Hell, Hakoda is HEALED from his injury when we see him again in the Boiling Rock. Sooooo, how damn horrible it is to lose against Azula, isn’t it? Who has EVER seen a more dangerous villain?!?!?! I mean, ffs, let’s be objective here, shall we? Zhao was way worse to Zuko and to his prisoners than Azula was. Long Feng was a literal brainwasher. By violence measurements and cruelty, she’s a n00b compared to them.

Long story short, if the problem is Azula is too effective a villain without that much violence, and that’s why she has to stop, well, it ain’t her fault her enemies aren’t as competent as she is. I don’t see how she’s morally worse than anyone else they fought, tbh she’s not, because she does offer Zuko kindness plenty of times. Yet she gets treated like the biggest problem ever by the characters and fandom alike.

And really, I think we both got extremely sidetracked from the point of the post that caused you to send this ask. Point is, Iroh doesn’t want Zuko and Azula getting along. Iroh doesn’t ever consider that maybe he can guide Azula into a better path if it was possible with Zuko. Iroh doesn’t ever think that maybe he can help her get out of Ozai’s influence. To him, she’s a lost case, and worse than that, she’s barely family (NEVER does he refer to her as such). To him, she’s the biggest rival he ever faces in the show because, as the show proved, Azula can make Zuko drift away from him. So, Mr. Nice Wise Guy never tried to get along with his niece and basically marked her as unforgivable for as long as she was a threat to his influence on Zuko. Ursa was a nasty mother to Azula and we literally have no proof of her loving Azula, but she didn’t want her children to be enemies. Ozai and Iroh literally turn Azula and Zuko against each other. Can we just accept that Iroh isn’t all that blameless? Why do we need to excuse him and pretend he had every right to behave like this 14yo girl was Vaatu incarnate when the show itself proves she’s NOT?

Seriously though. Iroh is not perfect. What’s so hard about admitting this? Why can’t we accept that he’s not all wisdom? That he never tried to help Azula? That he never wanted Zuko and Azula to get along? That he literally was counting on breaking Zuko away from his other relatives so he’d come to him, and him alone? I’m not saying that Azula and Ozai were good influences on Zuko, because they weren’t, but Zuko used to care about his father. He used to think he should get along with his sister. 

Wouldn’t it be EXTRA meaningful if Zuko had still felt that it was somehow wrong to fight his family, even though he knew it was the only thing he could do, instead of being murder-happy towards Aang while telling him his father HAD TO DIE? Wouldn’t it be better if Iroh had actually tried to reach Azula, but she just swatted him off because she’s not interested in what he’s selling? Wouldn’t it mean something huge for his character if Zuko’s attempt to reconnect with the good in his family had actually meant reconnecting his family to GOODNESS, instead of just worrying about his personal needs during The Search, WHICH IS ALL HE DID???

No. Instead, we get both Zuko and Iroh concluding that their respective siblings need to be ended. If you find nothing worth complaining about in those regards, that’s your problem, but I don’t have to like it. And I don’t have to think they’re heroic or right to think the way they do. Azula is no angel, neither are they. Zuko would be a far more moving character for me if he actually had shown he gave a damn about his sister, but he NEVER DID. 

Because really, every single time you see those asks going around? It’s “Do you guys REALLY think Azula cared about Zuko?” Ask yourself if Big Brother Zuzu cared about Azula instead, for a change. And FYI, if you conclude that he didn’t love her at all, that doesn’t mean you can’t love him. You can. Just, be aware of the fact that he’s no beacon of perfect goodness, that he’s got a lot of areas to improve on, and just like him, Iroh does. I find it beyond unfair that a man who literally redeemed himself at well past 50 years of age decided that his teenage niece is beyond saving. 

So, anon, be objective, don’t look at things from Iroh’s POV but from a neutral one, by understanding everyone’s motivations, and tell me that Iroh wouldn’t look like a way better human being if he just gave a shit about the family members he’s estranged from, while they don’t care about him at all. Literally, it’d be the perfect way to show why Iroh is the morally correct one. You want me to tell you the hard truth as to why this is so hard to accept for most fans? It’s only because of how morally incorrect his behavior is that people keep refusing to admit Iroh was wrong in how he handled Azula and her relationship with Zuko.

#anon #fuck that was long again #why do you anons keep trying to make me rant? #one would think after four years of reading me yelling at Zuko and Iroh you'd be tired of it by now