#im sorry if my tone at all comes off grumpy/condescending tht is not my intent

[ectonurites]

For me an industry plant is "someone who may or may not be that talented, but they’re still pushed to stardom because they have an entire company marketing/investing in them" and using this term on a fictional character is kinda tricky, but I do think it can be applied to Tim, since *on average* DC's writers/editors tend to showcase him in a more positive light compared to other Batman-related characters due to their bias towards him.

Personally speaking, I have seen way more writers claiming that Tim is their favorite Robin compared to the other Robins (although Dick is a close 2nd) Which explains why they're desperately trying to make his whole thing be "he's the best Robin!" by always making him appear smarter/more capable than the others and why he is rarely treated in a negative manners by the narrative compared to lets say Damian or Cassandra, who had awful storylines with the goal of demonizing them for no other reason than "someone in a high-position in the company hates their guts."

Well I mean, if we're using different definitions for the same term then obviously we're gonna come to different conclusions about it sgdfdhgfjhg

Like when I hear 'industry plant' I can not separate that from the idea that their connection to the larger entity backing them is kept secret/downplayed—that just feels like way too large a piece of what the term actually means to be tossed aside. Every one of the multiple definitions for the term that I came across while searching includes something about that aspect of it. To include a few:

Noun. industry plant (plural industry plants) (slang, derogatory) A music artist associated with a label but appearing as if they are independent and self-made. (slang, derogatory, by extension) A music artist whose popularity is perceived to be due to marketing efforts alone. (x)

An industry plant is an artist who has Major/Indie Label backing their movement but presents themselves as a "home grown start up" label to create a pseudo organic following. They act as if things are miraculously happening for them based on their talent (via blog coverage, media coverage, mtv playing their vids, etc.) The reality is a low risk/high reward situation for labels looking to build the next "new star" (x)

The term ‘industry plant’ is a musical term derived colloquially from hip-hop which is understood to mean, “an artist who has a major/indie label backing their movement but presents themselves as a ‘homegrown start-up’ to create the illusion of an organic following”. (x)

Even in the early days, there was some debate about how best to define an Industry Plant. On a fundamental level, it is an artist whose development takes place away from the public eye. While the major label downplays its influence, it quietly hones the artist into a star. While their rise to fame might appear to be organic, it’s actually been meticulously planned by a major label. As a result, Industry Plants are usually regarded as lacking authenticity. In the eyes of genuinely DIY artists, the Plant is merely a puppet whose success results from someone high up in the music industry ensuring they have the best connections. The key element here is deception. (x)

So the lack of an attempt to deceive/downplay a connection to a bigger entity/character is what makes me really really strongly disagree with the term applying to him.

I also think there’s something else to address in what you’re saying, which is maybe another reason we disagree here:

I think it's totally fair to say that nowadays there is a bias from people at DC towards Tim which makes them prioritize him over others. I'm 100% in agreement with you on that part, and it's annoying the way they try to push him as the 'best Robin' and downplay other characters like Damian and Cass.

But that became a problem after Tim had already become popular.

Like, he certainly had a dip in popularity for a while (largely bc of the New 52) and one could argue there’s been a sort of artificial push to bring him back to popularity in recent times… but when we're talking about the idea of him as an 'industry plant' I think we need to be looking specifically at when he first rose to popularity like 30 years ago. Because otherwise we’re not talking about how/why he became popular in the first place, we’re talking about the effects (and ups and downs) of his existing popularity.

When Tim was introduced and first rose to popularity in the late 80’s/early 90's.... that was years before Damian or Cass as we know them (i say this because technically the baby that would become Damian existed but like, that is not the same character) were introduced to even compare to the way you’re talking about.

At the time he was created, DC wanted to fill the Robin/‘Teen Bat Character’ spot after readers voted to kill Jason because they didn’t like him… Thus, Tim was designed to fit a specific niche—DC knew there would be an audience for a new Batman sidekick as long as they learned from what happened to Jason and created a character different from him that would be better received. Back then it's not that he was 'the young Batman character that people internally decided they like more than the others and thus push more' it's that he was 'the young Batman character'.

He had the opportunity to become a popular character because of being Batman’s new sidekick and managing to be more well received than Jason. Like, that's really it. But that was totally out in the open—he was by Batman's side before he got his chance to go solo, and promo for his solo made a point of bringing up Batman and featuring him. The connection to Batman was always incredibly clear and highlighted.

When we're trying to apply these slang terms from other industries to comics, Tim's situation is just far closer to 'nepo baby' than anything else. He had the opportunity to become popular because he was designed to fill a specific niche connected to an already popular character.

#im sorry if my tone at all comes off grumpy/condescending tht is not my intent #i just get very passionate about semantics like this