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sillyfudgemonkeys · 5 years

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Persona Problems: Apathy Syndrome, Mental Shutdowns, and Reverse Cases

Sooooo uhhh I can’t sleep so might as well ramble about this.

Comparing and contrasting the 3, ranting on why Mental Shutdowns are called Mental Shutdowns and why it’s stupid, and trying to fix PTS’ Reverse Cases.

An issue I’ve had with P5 tbh (I think I’ve talked about this before), but while thinking about it I realized that......my own idea of fixing P:TS’ Reverse Cases instead....made me realized some complications (I mean the complication was there to begin with but I’ll get to that).

Anyway I’ll save Reverse Cases for last since I’m sure most of you are only here for P3/5. 8U

So one thing that bothered me in P5 is.....the fact they call Mental Shutdowns well...Mental Shutdowns. I mean because....it’s just Apathy Syndrome (or at least, how it’s called by the public, “Mass Lethargy Syndrome, which we find out in P4D, as a similar case is happening there).

Well let me explain what each one basically is.

Apathy Syndrome. is basically when a person’s shadow goes on vacation in P3, and Nyx/Full Moon bosses be giving out those vacation tickets like Oprah when well....the Full moon comes around. 8U I mean technically the person’s shadow gets “eaten” by a Dark Hour Shadow (and yes it’s their shadow, MegaTen says “psyche” but it’s clarified more that by psyche they mean shadow). Basically, while there are technicalities in HOW the shadow isn’t in the person’s body, the fact remains it happens because the shadow is not in the body. As for what happens to the person, they usually go into a coma/vegetative state and will die without medical help.

Mass Lethargy Syndrome:

Now let’s look at Mental Shutdowns. It happens when a Shadow Self is killed.....ok.....so basically that means the Shadow is not there anymore. The Shadow is not in the body. Basically the same exact thing as Apathy Syndrome. What happens to the body? Same exact thing as Apathy Syndrome, they go into coma/vegetative state and will die without medical help. I mean sometimes they’ll die right on the spot for no good reason(ok maybe not RIGHT on the spot, stupid delay reaction Okumura....fudging things up), but of the 3/4 we saw, we know 2/3 (dunno if I should count train guy, but Wakabe and Kobayashi def count) died because they fell in traffic and not by whatever Okumura conveniently got. Also this doesn’t count Ichiko’s friend who was just in a coma, so it seems Okumura’s reaction is.....VERY rare. Btw fun fact, in P3′s 1st movie, something similar happens at a train station that mirrors Wakabe/Kobayashi, someone gets Apathy syndrome and falls in front of a train (I know it’s the movie, but the game DOES say there was a delay and the movie spells it out for us it’s cause of a body on the train tracks so.....there might be some weight to the movie).

Now PTS....I’m....I’m mostly gonna focus on Reverse Cases, I mean this anime has Apathy Syndrome but I don’t recall it (or I didn’t get that far into it), and the wiki states it’s when a Persona is taken or destroyed, while Reverse Cases (as well as Kagenuki) specifically mention Shadows....and I dunno it could be P:TS being weird again and not knowing how the relationship between Personas/Shadows work, but then again Kagenuki was used so that people could tell if that person has a strong shadow and thus strong Persona and....basically I don’t think the creators through it through or the wiki is missing some info. ANYWAY, Reverse Cases are similar, it’s where a Shadow is forcibly taken by another Persona user for a certain goal of summoning something more powerful by gathering those Personas (if any of you Arena/Ultimax fans feel like you might’ve heard something like this before yeah I think they repurposed P:TS’s thing), and when that happens the person is turned inside out! Whoops! Well that’s a bit different, but hey same concept, shadow leaving the body (THAT BEING SAID it’s understandable why it’s called something different, the outcome is different compared to AS and MS). (btw Kagenuki is where you pull a Shadow/Persona out but it’s used to relieve stress or some BS, it’s temporary and....it’s kinda more like you are forcing someone to summon their Persona rather than take it....unless you are discount Strega aka Marebito then they are trying to actually take it).

Fun Fact: P2IS I believe is the first place that showcases Apathy Syndrome (or whatever we wanna call all 3/4 of these things), as the character Yukino experience similar symptoms when her Shadow Self commits suicide. P2IS didn’t have a name for it but....just a fun fact. 8U

Anyway before I pick apart P:TS’ mess, lemme get back to P5. Why the fudge do they call it something different? Like I GET MS’ process is a little different, but the outcome is pretty much identical, esp to the public....who are the one’s naming the phenomenon. Like us the players know it’s different, one is caused by the Dark Hour and is temporary, the other is caused by Goro being an asshole and it seems like this one is a bit more permanent....BUT THE PUBLIC DOESN’T KNOW THAT! To them it should be “Apathy Syndrome/Mass Lethargy Syndrome has returned and a new phenomenon ‘Psychotic Breakdowns’ has emerged!” you could possibly connect them due to both showing up at around the same time, but calling AS something different? No, to the public it’s pretty much the same, people are becoming vegetables and we dunno how to help them. In all honesty, just because the way shadows are leaving people’s bodies are a bit different, I don’t think it warrants a new name...in fact I think it can be confusing “Wait isn’t it basically the same thing? How/why is it called something different?” it just raises unneeded questions. And no you can’t make the argument that ‘maybe AS wasn’t well known’ because 1) it’s mentioned later in P4D (and I think even in Arena), albeit by a different but similar sounding title and 2) even a small town like Inaba’s murder mystery was still being alluded to in P5 about 5ish years later in-game....and Iwatodai is a city and it was being talked about on the news A LOT.....so no it’s not a small town/city thing.

But...”Well why aren’t you complaining about P4D’s re-name?” Probably cause the rumor of knowing the cause of MLS vs AS/MS. MLS is associated with the cursed video, while AS/MS are unknown to the public..... Or maybe AS was just known as MLS to the mass public or it’s a phenomenon where a bunch of people fall to AS, I need to replay P4D tbh if there are additional details I’m missing, but the fact remains that, to the public, MLS has a possible root cause while the other two do not so it’s possible to let that slide....tho it brings up the fact MS should either be called AS or MLS.... Esp because there’s also the fact that P4D is probably taking place in Tokyo (P3/4/4D basically just call it “the city,” but I think it’s heavily hinted to be Tokyo, heck a quick google search lead me to a LMB festival look alike, aka Tokyo Idol Festival so....yeah 8U). Which makes it even more jarring for P5 since WE KNOW it takes place in Tokyo so why are they using two names for the same thing??? It’s like.....calling the Chicken Pox something like “Polly Pocket Pox,” same symptoms, we just feel like calling it something totally random and new now for no reason even tho it’s literally the exact same thing in everyone’s eyes. 8U

Anyway end rant on P5′s annoying alt naming, now for P:TS.

So.....Reverse Cases are a bit of a mess....both in the show (damn it be bloody) and.....lore wise (not new to P:TS bless its soul....haha soul....pun not intended). Lore wise it doesn’t make sense. I mean P3/4D/5′s way of doing it we basically have different ways of doing X1+A/B/C but we still get the same Y (basically X+A=Y, X+B=Y, and X+C=Y for P3/4D/5 respectively, X=a shadow leaving, A/B/C=the different forms aka Full Moon/Cursed Video/Goro-murders). RC is different, it’s end result is different even if say.....it’s the same as P5 (P5 involve another human harming another Person’s shadow so yeah). So with PTS, instead of X+C=Y, it’s now X+C=Z (Shadow leaving+basically stealing and absorbing the shadow=a person explodes).....so with PT X+C≠Y.....and that’s.....that’s some problems. Because PTS equates the shadow leaving with the person exploding (we’re ignoring AS in this universe cause....we don’t need more problems).

So....to fix it.....I originally thought “maybe add one more thing to the equation!” Have it be X+C+D=Z. With D= maybe the shadow goes berserk before it’s eaten and that’s how the person is exploded. Kinda similar to how Personas can turn on their user in P3 and strangle them....or in P4 the Shadow Selves....do something that kills them. I mean they both try to kill their hosts and seem to do different things to get the job done, and how they do it could result in a different outcome (P3 it’s strangulation tho not sure if traceable, P4 it’s unknown, PTS it’s explosion). There fix right? Nope.......I realized, thanks to P4 esp....there’s an issue....And this exists with how RCs already operate not just my fix it tweak. The issue is that.....once the person is killed, the shadow self (and by extension the Persona) disappears with it....

“Ok how is that bad?” Well the point of the RC are that the Marebito are gathering Shadows(/Personas) to make themselves stronger (and so that what’s his face can summon something, keeping it vague for spoilers but hey already dropped a spoiler so whatevs). But.....as soon as the Person explodes that Shadow should cease to exist. Rendering everything moot.

Which means we need to change PTS again, and we can do it a few ways thankfully! I mean you might have to rewrite PTS for some of the options but.....like it already needs rewrites so klnvkds;vna Anyway here’s what we can do:

No RCs! Instead it’s just Apathy Syndrome a new wave. What ain’t broke don’t fix it. Personas/Shadows are still stolen, but we just keep the symptoms as AS and just call it AS (or MLS, I’m down for either)

Might be an issue with getting the police involved, so either with the revamp have Shadow Ops be involved

Or make it so the police think AS in PTS has a different patter compared to P3′s so they think it might be a group or some BS.

Keep the RC, but don’t make it about stealing shadows/personas to make something stronger or summon something. Instead just make it about a (or a group of) serial killer(s)!

Either they just use their Persona to explode people

Or they utilize the Kagenuki to draw out the shadow self to do it for them!.

Use both 1 and 2, by which I mean I guess pull a P5 (aka have two going at the same time like P5 has with Mental Shutdowns and Psychotic Breakdowns, and RC could be the reason the police get involved), AS is when they steal the shadow, RC is when they wanna kill a person without the weird as time delay MS has at times.

I feel like I had more to say but it’s late and.....I think I’ll just end it here. 8V

#persona 3 #persona 5 #persona trinity soul #p3 #p5 #pts #tbh I should replay P4D cause I can't remember if Mass Lethargy Syndrome is the true public name for AS or #if they are doing what P5 is doing and calling the same thing by a different name #persona problems #persona 5 problems

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thenervousmedic · 6 years

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A coffee a day... (Connor x Reader)

Note: Sorry it took so long! <3

Also! adding a ‘Keep reading’ line for all you poor phone users who have to scroll past all my rubbish <3

Almost 3k words.

Chapter 9: Evidence... but of what?

Distant shower sounds filled the apartment from behind a closed door. The air was cool, crisp, with slight signs that the apartment had been left dormant for a little while.

Connor stood unwillingly still, hypnotized by his own thoughts, before coming back around with a few blinks. Idly wandering into the kitchen with the intent to snoop around your belongings. Ever so faint traces of your daily routine littered the rooms. The occasional cup left on a side, several takeaway menus scattered across a countertop, two sets of shoes not so neatly lined up against the hallway wall.

His mind whirled with information on every little noticeable detail of the apartment, but none of it was all that important. The same recurring red warning letters trying to grab his attention with their incessant flickering. He wasn’t Deviant, he wasn’t broken, and he certainly didn’t need to be fixed. If anything the warnings were getting in his way, he would function much better if they just left him alone. It didn’t help that Amanda was breathing down the back of his neck after last night.

A sweet distant scent of shampoo was detectable amongst the thin layers of floating dust particles. His mind off on its own little adventure as his body stood unable to find something to do with itself.

“I hope you’re not gonna just stand there all day-” your voice came out of nowhere. Though he should have anticipated your approach after he had heard the bedroom door open. His brows unintentionally raised, mouth slightly parted. You were…. Very beautiful. At Least he seemed to think so. Your hair was still wet from the shower, but it was nice to see you out of Hank’s gigantic clothes. You wore a messy black hoodie, still loose on your frame but not nearly as much as Hank’s clothes had been, and large tracksuit trousers of your favourite colour. You weren't wearing any shoes, logically, just some black socks.

“No, of course not, I was just having a look around. Do you have the stolen Cyberlife products?” you looked… ‘disappointed’ he guessed would be the right word. “Yeah… yeah, uh, go sit down, i’ll get ‘em.” -- Connor was very obviously hesitant to leave your side but after quickly looking you over he nodded and went back into the living room. Almost every footstep was silent in your home, with the floor being so squishy, but even then you could hear the heavy ‘poof’ of Connor’s steps.

You were right, it was nice to be back in your own clothes. Much softer, muuuuch more comfortable than before. Oh, the components, right. You weren't looking forward to this. As nice as Jayden had been in his younger years the weeks before his supposed death had tainted any memories you could hold of him. They were on the highest shelf of your kitchen cupboard- just slightly out of your reach for the most part- it had taken you so long to even know they were there. Taking a small stool from beside your bin, you shoved it up against the kitchen counter, clambering aboard with the intent to grab the bag and its contents.

However as your hand reached for the shelf the only thing that greeted it was a wet puddle, enough to make you recoil and let out a short “ew, what the fuck?” as you stumbled off of the stool with a hand now dripping in… “B-blue blood.”

You were weirded out for a moment, glaring at your hand in confusion before looking back up at the shelf. The bag… you knew that's where it was last. There's no way you had moved it. “Um… Connor we seem to have a-" You turn, ready to head into the living room only to come face to chest with the android who has already walked up to you. “-problem…”

He's scowling at you and before you know it has taken your wrist in his hand, pulling your blue-coated fingers up so he can look at them. Without warning, again, he leant forwards and licked the tip of your finger gently, sending your face into a red mess. “C-Connor! What?!”

His brow furrowed for just a moment before letting you go, LED blinking yellow. “Im sorry Y/N. I should have warned you, I was analysing the thirium, I can check samples in real time.” You wanted to smack that smirk off of his damn face. He knew that was going to make you uncomfortable but he did it anyway, what an ass! “Thirium.” You parroted back, sending some of the blueblood flying across the room as you flicked your wrist instinctively to get the liquid off of your fingers. Going over to the sink to wash it off like a normal human being moments afterwards. “Does it stain? That would be pretty annoying.” “No.” You were smiling, but it soon melted away just a little as you noticed his LED was still yellow, blinking a quick red for enough time to make you nervous. “It… evaporates enough to hide it from regular detection in a few hours. This is fresh. Someone has been in here.” The very idea was absurd. Your apartment was exactly how you had left it. Right? If someone was to take the bag without disturbing anything they must have known where…

“...Jayden was in here?” your voice was barely a whisper but still managed to crack under the sentence's weight. Your eyes darting from Connor’s face to the cupboard, staring wildly at the blue liquid that started dripping down from the top shelf onto your kitchen counter. Sparks of anxiousness lit up the hairs on the back of your neck, a cold chill brushing past your ankles. There's no way you were right, Jayden is dead, he wasn’t in here just a few minutes ago- Obviously seeing your concerns, Connor took a step away from you to peak back around the corner of the kitchen, he took a moment to make sure everything was as it should be. The carpet’s design made it too difficult to tell if anyone had walked on it, but traces of dirt and stones from his shoes were visible under the spongy mass. The faint shoe-print outlines fit his own, yours stopped at the hallway since you had taken off your boots unlike him.

Sure enough another set of tracks were barely noticable amongst the scattered flecks of dust and grit. Smaller than his own, leading straight into the kitchen and back out again. How had he not noticed this before, he shouldn’t have been so distracted by your decorations. “That’s silly, nobody could have got in.” You bark in denial, waving your wrist back and forth while Connor’s steely gaze followed something on the floor toward your main window.

The window frame glistening a bright white while sunlight beamed through the glass- illuminating a small smudge that very quickly caught Connor’s attention. “-They came through the window, walked across the living room, and took the bag… leaving the exact same way. Almost perfectly paced to reduce their tracks-” He mumbled aloud, looking around as if he was seeing things you couldn’t. Pupils flickering left and right to reconstruct a scene that to your mind was all but filled in by your own fantasies.

Despite wanting to continue in ignorant bliss the very fact that Connor was specifically designed for detective work was keeping you firmly rooted in believing every word that left his mouth. He hadn’t said it was Jayden yet, so you could at the very least pretend it wasn’t, but he hadn’t denied the possibility. The very thought send an involuntary shudder down your arms.

Without discussing it further, Connor lightly grabbed your wrist and began dragging you toward the living room window, his fingers sliding underneath the frame to pull it swiftly open. Your eyes widened. “Woah wait-” He hopped through the gap onto an emergency escape platform. Letting go of you while continuing his task and heading towards the ladder beside it.

Without thinking it through, you joined him. Scrambling through the open window with less elegance than your new partner as he proceeded to quickly outpace you. You were struggling to keep up, sliding down the ladder by its edges instead of using the rungs so you didn’t lose sight of his ever moving form. “Connor wait! Slow down!”

A car flashed past the alleyway, sending a small whirl of wind spiralling up the tight space as Connor hit the floor and began looking around with you in tow. It’s like you didn’t exist, he was just looking for the next scrap of evidence to show where the intruder had fled. And as it so happens he’d obviously spotted something of importance, setting off again at a brisk pace that forced you into jogging to keep up. You weren't mad, he was just really dedicated is all, maybe a little disheartened but not mad.

“Connor, dammit, can you just-” you reached for his sleeve, managing to snag it mid-stumble, his arm lunging out to catch you before you could faceplant the pebble strewn floor. “If someone really broke in, do we wanna go chasing after them?” A strong sense of unease clouded your voice, Connor’s furrowed brow easing ever so slightly.

“Yes.” His reply was curt, to the point, and honestly enough to ease some of the tension in your shoulders. Obviously a little confused at why you'd ask such an obvious question. Quietly replying with a quick “Ok.” As embarrassment flooded your features.

The passageway well lit, midday sun now gleaming down through the gap between buildings as you followed the androids lead, his hand still resting lightly on your wrist. “You can let go now, Connor.”

“What? Oh! Right.” He twitched. Releasing your arm with what you could swear was the Android equivalent of a blush bruising up across his cheek. The flawless synthetic skin tinting a tantalising blue.

The trail was faint but now even you could see it. An occasional splatter of watery thirium leaving a breadcrumb-esque pattern of blue droplets up the alley. The smell, although dull, was uncomfortably similar to that of real blood. A metallic aftertaste greeting your taste buds every time you took a breath through your mouth- quickly opting out of that decision after one too many creeped out shudders. “O-on…. On second thought-” You stammer, catching up beside him as the paths you both wind start to become unrecognisable to you, reaching out for Connor’s hand. You don’t come this way, ever, the drunken late night shouting was plenty offputting. “Can i?-”

Connor’s fingers brushed tenderly against your own, the smooth warmth from his synthetic skin was similar to that of a tiny hug, his hand lightly taking your own as if squeezing too hard would break your bones. “Of course.” You didn’t want him to run off again. The idea of being alone here had brought up rather displeasing thoughts. The comfort that came from his presence wasn’t apparent until he stopped scanning the floor to look at you, A glowing hospitality to his deep brown eyes, urging you to keep a strong exterior.

It appears you weren't the only one in need of some reassurance. Connor’s shoulders visibly losing some of their tension as you wiggle your hand back into his; following the Thirium trail with some new found confidence.

It broke here and there, a smear or two appearing up the bricks to your left, Connor’s voice interrupting your concentration. “They were stumbling- using the wall for support. An injured leg.” his tone was so easy to listen to, like every word he said could have been read from a storybook. “We need to hurry, if they are hurt then maybe we can capture them safely.”

With the pace picking up, your fears slowly fell behind you. The thrill of a hunt growing undeniable as you jogged just slightly ahead of your partner. The unexplored backstreet widening, less friendly looking buildings hanging on either side, while something familiar prickled at the back of your brain. You’d never been down here… yet the looming warehouse that now stepped into view felt eerily recognisable. Pace faltering if only a little.

You wanted to leave-

If seeing this broken down building was enough to tell you to run you almost couldn’t imagine what going inside was going to be like. Every nerve up your arm bustled with meaningless noise; legs stiffening with each step in it’s direction. “Is something wrong?”

He noticed. Of course he would notice. The hand he held had clenched to a vice-like grip without your knowledge, hurriedly loosening your grasp with a nervous chuckle. “No, no i’m… good.” You swallowed, still looking up at the dark grey walls of the warehouse, the wind trying to lift your still-damp hair. “This place just kinda creeps me out is all…”

Hank groaned, his head pounding like his music tastes. Last nights drinks repeating on him, an occasional alcohol-burp burning at the back of his throat. Fuck. He really shouldn’t have drank that much last night… though, on second thought, it probably wasn’t avoidable. He’d put a fucking gun up to Connor’s head, what was he thinking?! Thank christ he hadn’t pulled the trigger-

Huh. Aside from costing a whole bunch of his paycheck what would shooting Connor really do? Aside from make him compulsively re-introduce himself the next morning there were little to no repercussions to his actions. “Nothing… there would be…. Nothing.”

“Shit.-” Hank’s hand collided roughly with his face, growling irritably into his palm as the scent of last night hung on his clothes, running it up through the messy mop that was his hair. These thoughts were too intrusive for this early in the morning. The look in Connor’s eyes had engrained itself in his head, enough for the older gentleman to physically begin to shake. He looked… scared. It was for a split second, barely noticeable, but he had seen it. Fuck. Fuck. If he had gone through with it-

“Connor!” Hank’s voice boomed through his tiny house, a hoarse throat making the shout into more of a growling bark, Sumo’s paws padding on the wooden floor following shortly afterwards. The big dog bumbling into Hank’s room with a small whine, pressing his nose up to Hank’s beard before thoroughly licking his face. “Hey, stop that, Sumo, Dammit-.” Pushing the overgrown pup back with some effort, still trying to stifle the acidic bile rising in his throat. “-Where's the sentient Roomba?” Sumo’s head cocked to one side, his tail slowly wagging back and forth as Hank rose from his bed, his owner trying to keep himself upright by leaning on the doorframe.

The house was extremely quiet: empty. A non existent pit in his stomach feeling heavier once he noticed one of his older shirts sitting folded on the bathroom counter- a note written neatly on a piece of paper that stood beside it. ‘Lieutenant Anderson. You appear to be too intoxicated to retain this information, so I’m writing a letter to catch you up in the morning. I would greatly appreciate your cooperation if you could possibly read this without tearing it up first.’ “Fuckin’.... Smartass….” ‘The witness was unsettled by my uniform being wet, I had to borrow this shirt for a few hours, I hope you do not mind. It has been washed and dried. Y/N and I are following up on a possible lead early in the morning, you will likely not be awake by then, we are heading to her apartment. I want urge you to take it slow as you ingested concerning levels of alcoholic beverages last night. Your wellbeing is important to me ensure the mission can be accomplished in a timely manner.’

‘~Connor.’

The pit sunk further. Hank had never seen an android make… ‘mistakes’ in their writing. His hardened steel glare softening ever so slightly, the paper making little uncomfortable noises as it was lifted from the counter and folded up- placed slowly next to Hanks toothbrush. A false apprehension hanging in the air. The smell of drink on his muggy clothing distracting him from what he had just read.

Sumo blew air roughly out of his nose, waddling back into the living room with a grumble, resting his head on ‘your spot’ on the sofa. Messing with the cushion under one of his oversized paws. “Yeah, I know.” Hank mumbled back, the scraping sound of his sink hot tap making him cringe. “The kids get to go play while my sick ass has to get dressed and try not to vomit.” Quipping wasn’t going to quell the discomfort in his tone.

You'd think by now he would be used to hangovers. For the most part he was great at dealing with them… didn't make him feel any less shitty. But he couldn't go barfing into the toilet today, there was work to do. If Connor wasn't going to be on his was all morning the least he could do is try and enjoy it.

#dbh #dbh connor #dbh hank #A coffee a day...#connor x reader

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