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agentrouka-blog · 19 days

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Season 8 “what if?”

Could Daenerys have openly acknowledged Jon as Rhaegar’s legal heir and let him relinquish his rights in the line of succession for the whole realm to see?

Jon: "My Northern subjects who bled for our Independence. As you know, I gave that independence away under duress in order to obtain assistance for our effort to save the entire Realm, and we are once again beholden to the Iron Throne in the South that we only submitted to under duress the first time, too. All hail Daenerys the rightful queen of the Seven Kingdoms. But I have news! I am actually not the bastard son of Eddard Stark but the trueborn son of Rhaegar Targaryen and my name is Aegon Targaryen, and by rights this throne should actually be mine! But I have more news! I have freely chosen not to claim this inheritance. Because.... Dany just really wants to rule us all so much! No, this doesn't just make her an ordinary conqueror, it's all totally legit! I am just giving away this claim because I don't want it! But also we still remain submitted to the Iron Throne. No, the North isn't getting any kind of compensation out of this. Yes, as the son of Rhaegar Targaryen, I still remain warden of the North for my aunt. Sansa doesn't mind. .... Would any of this sound better if I explained that I didn't actually have to submit the North to her rule and chose to do it anyway, shortly before starting an affair with my aunt? She will TOTALLY be a good queen though! All her councillors who cower in fear of her say so with complete honesty and faith! Like I do!"

Also Jon: "Dany, you know I have been really reluctant to continue our relationship after you revealed you were my aunt, which is making me very trustworthy in your eyes, so surely you'll just take my word for it that I am 100% commited to you, and you'll totally leave me alive and in reasonable dignity and power, even should I ever voice disagreement with any of your choices to burn people, thus making myself look like a more reasonable alternative ruler to your opponents. Right? I know you have no local support and entirely rely on your dragons and foreign armies to enforce your rule and your will and no one actually cares for a Targaryen restoration, so surely this won't be a problem anyway. After all, it's just conquest by fire and blood to establish your new dynasty for yourself and your future children. Oh, sorry, sensitive subject I know. You don't like talking about legals heirs because of the infertility thing. Well, since I totally said I don't want the throne, no one will be looking for me and my own future children to replace you sooner or later, haha. Here's a to a bright future and a stable reign!"

#what if #anti game of thrones #anti daenerys targaryen #anti jon snow #anti targaryen restoration #just anti everything

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the-not-so-dark-age · 7 months

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Some random thoughts on Daenerys and Rhaegar's role as character to serve Daenerys' story

Thinking again about "the dragon must have three heads" and I'm 99% sure it's all meant to be Daenerys, she is the dragon and her dragons are the three heads

She needs no men to fulfill her destiny as the Prince(ss) Who Was Promised and as Azor Ahai, rather all the men who will try to be another head of the dragon will bring pain upon her or themselves, and Quentyn Martell imo is proof of this; Young Griff won't likely ally with Dany and rather cause more destruction and while I hope Jon won't kill Dany like in the show I think he'll be a bigger problem if he's resurrected and comes back a LOT different. These men don't make things easier for Dany but rather they are actual or potential obstacles for her in her mission to save the world (Quentyn is already dead but surely Dorne won't be happy that he died due to Dany's dragons while she was absent and after she had married another man even if he proposed)

And of course Hizdahr isn't one of the three heads even if I don't think he's actually plotting against Dany (he's still very suspicious tho)

But aside from all the proofs we already have in the book and that are kinda explicit (like the "born amidst smoke and salt" etc) I think another proof is Rhaegar.

Yeah the guy himself. I've just said Dany needs no man but I think Rhaegar having some positive usefulness to the plot of a female character would be nice

First of all, something that really hit me in ACOK during the House of Undying chapter was the scene Dany saw of Rhaegar, Aegon and Elia and how Rhaegar looks straight into Daenerys while he's saying "There must be one more. The dragon has three heads".

Daenerys is the one more head. She is the dragon too at the same time, Drogon/Viserion/Rhaegal being the three heads; but Daenerys wasn't born yet and Rhaegar was convinced he needed to fulfill the prophecy, be it with Elia or Lyanna.

Second proof is again from the House of the Undying visions, the one of a dying prince in the water which is 99% Rhaegar: as he died he said a woman's name...and I think it was "Daenerys". Not Lyanna, not Visenya (if he hoped for another girl to recreate the original conquerors trio), not Elia nor Rhaenys

Daenerys wasn't born yet the moment Rhaegar died on the Trident but we know many characters have prophetic dreams so maybe in his very last moments Rhaegar understood he didn't need to make Elia or Lyanna give him more children...because Daenerys would be the person he'd waited for his whole life. He should have just waited a bit more and he would have met her...

It would be extremely bitter and it fits Martin's style, it would make you wonder if it had all been for "nothing", if Rhaegar didn't need to kidnap Lyanna etc (even tho the rebellion had other causes and Rhaegar and Lyanna are just one of them, and sooner or later someone would have surely fought against a king like Aerys II)

Third proof which links Rhaegar to be himself a proof that Dany is TPTWP is another dream Dany has in AGOT, after the miscarriage and while she has a high fever: she sees a knigh in black armor, Rhaegar, but when she opens his visor she actually sees her own face. I think this could mean Rhaegar, the man who was considered to be the prince that was promised, the last dragon is just the herald to the real last dragon, the real prince that was promised, the dragon with three heads: Daenerys.

His whole existence has been about that: first he believed to be the prince, then he understood he had to make way for the prince and that was Rhaegar's life mission. So while he did make a mess for "nothing" since TPTWP wouldn't come from his blood (in the strict sense of parental relation - again for me because I'm almost sure it's Daenerys and not Young Griff nor Jon Snow), in some way he may still "help" in recognizing and finding the real TPTWP even if he's doing it in other people's visions and he's long been dead. And more so, this would give Rhaegar a much more active role in Daenerys' arc rather than just being a mythical and nostalgic story people tell her, putting him as a concrete and "positive" (in the sense his character won't directly harm Dany) contrast to Viserys, who's had a deep impact on Daenerys but on the negative sense since he was an abuser to her.

#does this make sense? no #that's how it goes 🤷🏼‍♀️#asoiaf #daenerys targaryen #rhaegar targaryen #the prince that was promised #azor ahai #tptwp #agot #acok #my post

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witchofvalyria · 2 years

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Do you think Aegon the conqueror and Visenya regretted conquering the seven kingdoms?

Thank you for asking this!! There's little to nothing about the conquerors in the books, which makes their mysterious personalities all more appealing for us to be curious and ask about them.

Now with house of the dragon airing, we all know that Aegon didn't conquer for greed or power simply, but also because of his dream. "The song of ice and fire." The prophecy being about Dany...

Rhaenys was both Visenya and Aegon's little sister, and they obviously loved her very much. Visenya lost a sister and a confidant, Aegon lost his lover, wife and the mother of his only son at the time.

Living more than thirty years without her must have been really hard for both of them, which is probably why they spent most of their time later in life in Dragonstone, since it was their childhood home, and where they spent most time together, and where they have the happiest memories.

They may have gained the seven kingdoms, and a crown, but it wasn't for free, Rhaenys and her dragon died, they never even had their sister's body.

It was also said that when aegon held his granddaughter Rhaena for the first time (daughter of Aenys) who was named after her grandmother Rhaenys herself, he wept. And we all know that he doted on his grand children with Rhaenys.

So I truly belive that they often didn't talk about Rhaenys, until those rare moments when they do and they think about how it wasn't worth it after all.

#house of dragons #house of the dragon #targaryensource #rhaneyra targaryen #queen rhaenyra #aegon the conqueror #visenya targaryen #queen visenya #rhaenys targaryen #queen rhaenys targaryen #orys baratheon #argella durrandon #belarion #vhagar

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music-of-dragons · 2 years

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Person: I have read the books and know them very well

Same person:

I just have to laugh, you bet when I responded with book evidence she didn't respond.

My response:

["The dragon has three heads. There are two men in the world who I can trust, if I can find them. I will not be alone then. We will be three against the world, like Aegon and his sisters."]

Dany WANTS to find more Targaryens, all throughout the books she longs for home and a family, she is greatly upset because she thinks she is the last Targaryen and is alone. That's what the House with the Red Door symbolizes for her. I'm certain she would have been open to marrying fAegon had she not married Hizdahr, which is exactly what she told Quentyn, she refused to marry him only because she did not want to abandon her people. Daenerys constantly feels remorse for her mistakes;

[That morning she summoned her captains and commanders to the garden, rather than descending to the audience chamber. “Aegon the Conqueror brought fire and blood to Westeros, but afterward he gave them peace, prosperity, and justice. But all I have brought to Slaver’s Bay is death and ruin. I have been more khal than queen, smashing and plundering, then moving on.”

“You have brought freedom as well,” Missandei pointed out.

“Freedom to starve?” asked Dany sharply. “Freedom to die? Am I a dragon, or a harpy?” Am I mad? Do I have the taint?]

[If I look back, I am doomed. Dany told herself… but how could she not look back? I should have seen it coming. Was I so blind, or did I close my eyes willfully, so I would not have to see the price of power?]

[“Lannister or Stark, what difference? Viserys used to call them the Usurper’s dogs. If a child is set upon by a pack of hounds, does it matter which one tears out his throat? All the dogs are just as guilty. The guilt …” The word caught in her throat. Hazzea, she thought, and suddenly she heard herself say, “I have to see the pit,” in a voice as small as a child’s whisper. “Take me down, ser, if you would.”]

This is Daenerys, reflecting on and regretting her mistakes. Astapor haunts her throughout ADWD and she rules with that failure in mind, that's why she refuses to let her army leave Meereen to fight Yunkai because she saw what leaving a government without a garrison does. On the topic of Astapor though, Dany had exactly how much she needed to buy 1000 Unsullied which is the amount that she came for. It wasn't until she heard the horror they underwent that she decides she needs to free them and end slavery. She cries in her cabin about them the night before she frees them because she knows what it's like to be sold and afraid.

["None." Was it Mormont she was angry with, or this city with its sullen heat, its stinks and sweats and crumbling bricks? "They sell eunuchs, not men. Eunuchs made of brick, like the rest of Astapor. Shall I buy eight thousand brick eunuchs with dead eyes that never move, who kill suckling babes for the sake of a spiked hat and strangle their own dogs? They don't even have names. So don't call them men, ser."]

["I have heard all I care to of their training." Dany could feel tears welling in her eyes, sudden and unwanted. Her hand flashed up and cracked Ser Jorah hard across the face. It was either that, or cry.]

["Do you know what it is like to be sold, squire? I do. My brother sold me to Khal Drogo for the promise of a golden crown. Well, Drogo crowned him in gold, though not as he had wished, and I . . . my sun-and-stars made a queen of me, but if he had been a different man, it might have been much otherwise. Do you think I have forgotten how it felt to be afraid?"]

After her dragons hatched Dany had to survive and lead her people through The Red Waste, she had to go to war to free people and deals with the hardships of ruling every chapter. She's not coddled, she's very humble and dealt with obstacle after obstacle to become a Queen.

She planted beans, wheat, grapes, and had irrigation canals built to replenish the economy. She freed the slaves of the Hinterlands to bring in trade and struck a deal with the Lhazar. She ended the slaughters in Meereen with a political marriage, she created Meereenese garrisons so that the city would feel safer being protected by their own people, she ended the Yunkish siege through negotiation, and a lot more. ADWD is nothing but Dany making political decisions and ruling very well for her age and education.

Also, WHERE does Dany use her dragons when she's losing? No where. She literally only used Drogon once in Astapor then had her dragons locked up in Meereen. She refuses to use the dragons so much so that Brown Ben betrays her because he sees her as weak and losing.

[We need them dragons, the way I see it."

Dany sighed. "I am sorry, Ben. I dare not loose the dragons." She could see that was not the answer that he wanted.]

All because she feels guilty about Hazzea. Sansa at this point is only doing what Littlefinger tells her, seducing Harry the Heir was not her plan and she most definitely never takes initiative as a character.

#daenerys targaryen #asoiaf #dany #a song of ice and fire #book!daenerys #book!dany #pro dany

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esther-dot · 3 years

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If Dany can't make her home in Meereen, then how can she make in westroes. Meereen is strange country to her with different laws and traditions she didn't knew. Same thing could say about Westroes. She didn't want her home in Meereen when things didn't go as she want despite having power. Dragon plants no trees neither Dany knew how create home. She is basically a nomad like Dothraki who plunder for resources not planting roots. Infact she destroy others homes in her conquest.

True. It's a very smart angle to write about a war campaign in the terms of a quest for home because it's so sympathetic, all manner of crimes are ignored by fans who don't question it. Dany's initial idea of home seems to be a place where she felt some safety and comfort, but that view of home is undermined by Viserys:

Dany looked at Khal Drogo. His face was hard and cruel, his eyes as cold and dark as onyx. Her brother hurt her sometimes, when she woke the dragon, but he did not frighten her the way this man frightened her. "I don't want to be his queen," she heard herself say in a small, thin voice. "Please, please, Viserys, I don't want to, I want to go home."

"Home!" He kept his voice low, but she could hear the fury in his tone. "How are we to go home, sweet sister? They took our home from us!" He drew her into the shadows, out of sight, his fingers digging into her skin. "How are we to go home?" he repeated, meaning King's Landing, and Dragonstone, and all the realm they had lost.

Dany had only meant their rooms in Illyrio's estate, no true home surely, though all they had, but her brother did not want to hear that. There was no home there for him. Even the big house with the red door had not been home for him. His fingers dug hard into her arm, demanding an answer. "I don't know …" she said at last, her voice breaking. Tears welled in her eyes. (AGOT, Daenerys I)

I don’t think we can ignore the impact of being told that she can only truly be safe, free, happy, will only find her real home, after conquering Westeros. That is married with the violence of her house words, and she embraces that in the first book and it's all so very ominous:

"But he must ride west," Dany said, despairing. "Please, help me make him understand." She had never seen the Seven Kingdoms either, no more than Drogo, yet she felt as though she knew them from all the tales her brother had told her. Viserys had promised her a thousand times that he would take her back one day, but he was dead now and his promises had died with him.

"The Dothraki do things in their own time, for their own reasons," the knight answered. "Have patience, Princess. Do not make your brother's mistake. We will go home, I promise you."

Home? The word made her feel sad. Ser Jorah had his Bear Island, but what was home to her? A few tales, names recited as solemnly as the words of a prayer, the fading memory of a red door … was Vaes Dothrak to be her home forever? When she looked at the crones of the dosh khaleen, was she looking at her future? (AGOT, Daenerys VI)

The day was warm and cloudless, the sky a deep blue. When the wind blew, she could smell the rich scents of grass and earth. As her litter passed beneath the stolen monuments, she went from sunlight to shadow and back again. Dany swayed along, studying the faces of dead heroes and forgotten kings. She wondered if the gods of burned cities could still answer prayers.

If I were not the blood of the dragon, she thought wistfully, this could be my home. She was khaleesi, she had a strong man and a swift horse, handmaids to serve her, warriors to keep her safe, an honored place in the dosh khaleen awaiting her when she grew old … and in her womb grew a son who would one day bestride the world. That should be enough for any woman … but not for the dragon. With Viserys gone, Daenerys was the last, the very last. She was the seed of kings and conquerors, and so too the child inside her. She must not forget. (AGOT, Daenerys VI)

because being a dragon means destruction, as we're told repeatedly throughout the series:

"You don't want to wake the dragon, do you?"

She saw sunlight on the Dothraki sea, the living plain, rich with the smells of earth and death. Wind stirred the grasses, and they rippled like water. Drogo held her in strong arms, and his hand stroked her sex and opened her and woke that sweet wetness that was his alone, and the stars smiled down on them, stars in a daylight sky. "Home," she whispered as he entered her and filled her with his seed, but suddenly the stars were gone, and across the blue sky swept the great wings, and the world took flame. (AGOT, Daenerys IX)

and

The thought of home disquieted her. If her sun-and-stars had lived, he would have led his khalasar across the poison water and swept away her enemies, but his strength had left the world. Her bloodriders remained, sworn to her for life and skilled in slaughter, but only in the ways of the horselords. The Dothraki sacked cities and plundered kingdoms, they did not rule them. Dany had no wish to reduce King's Landing to a blackened ruin full of unquiet ghosts. She had supped enough on tears. I want to make my kingdom beautiful, to fill it with fat men and pretty maids and laughing children. I want my people to smile when they see me ride by, the way Viserys said they smiled for my father.

But before she could do that she must conquer. (ACOK, Daenerys II)

and

Westeros. Home. But if she left, what would happen to her city? Meereen was never your city, her brother's voice seemed to whisper. Your cities are across the sea. Your Seven Kingdoms, where your enemies await you. You were born to serve them blood and fire. (ADWD, Daenerys III)

I'm guessing Drogon's home, "Dragonstone," is meant to tell us that this is what a dragon will do in order to make a home:

The hill loomed larger down here. Dany had taken to calling it Dragonstone, after the ancient citadel where she'd been born. She had no memories of that Dragonstone, but she would not soon forget this one. Scrub grass and thorny bushes covered its lower slopes; higher up a jagged tangle of bare rock thrust steep and sudden into the sky. There, amidst broken boulders, razor-sharp ridges, and needle spires, Drogon made his lair inside a shallow cave. He had dwelt there for some time, Dany had realized when she first saw the hill. The air smelled of ash, every rock and tree in sight was scorched and blackened, the ground strewn with burned and broken bones, yet it had been home to him.

Dany knew the lure of home. (ADWD, Daenerys X)

We can infer from that what Dany will do to Westeros. And, I think it's undeniable that Martin intended from the beginning to have Dany become a conqueror, a destructive force, and chose the most sympathetic way possible to present her path to a dark, inevitable, end. Dany deceiving herself is necessary to deceive the reader, and he hints at all of this very early,

"What do you pray for, Ser Jorah?" she asked him.

"Home," he said. His voice was thick with longing.

"I pray for home too," she told him, believing it.

(AGOT, Daenerys III)

#ask dot #dark dany #anti daenerys #anti daenerys targaryen

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