#i called them grigori wayy more than 'the watchers' here but they're called 'the watchers' more often in theology/also the bible

[books-and-dragons]

hi, i saw your post about grigori angels and was wondering why this disproves the kokabiel and baraquiel!crowley theories? sorry if this has been asked before, or it's obvious!

hey anon, nothing to be sorry about!!

i wouldn't necessarily say the fact kokabiel and baraquiel are grigori disproves the theory, if only because we don't know how the grigori story fits into the good omens canon- and playing fast and loose with the bible stories is always an option so it's still a possibility, just an unlikely one if we follow the orginal biblical canon; as the grigori arrive much later on, and their 'fall' is not the same one as we see with 'lucifer's angels'

regardless, the grigori are fascinating to consider- especially in the gomens universe! they're unique amongst angels, and still vastly different from demons- the only ones who well and truly get humans

i'll start by quickly sharing the grigori lore, then bring it back to crowley

The Grigori

the grigori are detailed in the book of enoch, and their time is after eden, after the beginning. with sin now being an option for humans, the grigori were created and sent to earth to understand human behaviour

their name translates to 'the watchers'. an apt title for their role: watchers over humanity. the reason for this is debated, but fundamentally we come down to the important fact that the grigori, with their unique position as Watchers, understood humans better than any other angel- which was the whole point. why humans sinned, and how to influence them towards virtue and faith while still allowing humans to maintain their free will.

then, things began to change. the grigori started to interact with humans, taught us of technology and knowledge that we would soon discover ourselves. they later began to marry humans. they copulated with humans- from this, we had the nephilim. i don't need to reiterate how that particular tale ends. at least, not for the nephilim.

The Second Fall

here's the fun part. at least, in the context of talking about 'Fallen Angels'

in the eyes of god, the grigori had left their place of belonging, heaven, in favour of humans and earth. for this act, they were to fall.

except, the grigori didn't fall. at least, not in the sense we tend to define falling.

jude, verse six, outlines as much. 'and the angels that kept not with their first estate but left with their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgement of the great day'

it would be more accurate to say the grigori were cast out, that they are in 'time out'- for they were not stripped of their grace, nor did they fall to hell/become demons as lucifer's angels did. instead their punishment is to spend the rest of their years on earth, until the day of judgement. for all intents and purposes they are still angels, just not yet allowed back into heaven.

(when we consider that the grigori had already been living on earth, amongst humans, there's something to be said for wondering if this is really a punishment at all. god really fumbled the bag on that one, or maybe it was intentional. the grigori tale is full of interesting debates!)

from what i gathered, this event is [colloquially] referred to as 'the second fall'. it happens after the original fall, the better known one. a long time after- given the grigori are after eden.

the important takeaways about the grigori come down to this: they are unique amongst angels for understanding humans, they are the parents of the nephilim, and they 'fell' from heaven- but not in the same way

Fitting with Good Omens/Angel!Crowley theories

if we're following the biblical canon here, crowley couldn't have been kokabiel or baraqiel for they are both grigori. they didn't fall with lucifer, not as the-angel-that-crowley-was did. by the time of kokabiel and baraquiel, crowley the demon already existed.

the grigori came after the beginning, once humans had already left eden. their 'fall' is referred to as the 'second fall', nevermind the fact that they didn't really fall at all. the grigori aren't in hell, they aren't demons- they're still angels. contrastingly, crowley fell, and very much is a demon- he's part of the first [real] fall, one of lucifer's angels. let's also remember that a very important part of the grigori story is how they fell for, and into bed with, humans- and procreated with them. somehow, this isn't something i envision for the-angel-that-was-crowley

this said, crowley (and aziraphale) were definitely about on earth during the time this was happening. they witnessed the flood themselves (the incident designed for the purpose of destroying the nephilim, the offspring of grigori and humans), and i'm sure at least aziraphale would have heard about the 'second fall', if not also crowley along with the rest of hell (also, imagine how pissed you'd be if you took a million-light-year dive into sulphur, came out a demon of hell, only for these 'watcher angels' to also be called fallen, when all they did was get put in time out for several millenia. the unfairness has to sting)

i like to imagine crowley had a form of healthy tolerance-bordering-appreciation for grigori angels- they value humanity's free will, shared knowledge with humans that often centred on creative and technological developments, even when this meant punishment by god

what makes the grigori so interestingly unique is their understanding of humans and what may drive them to sin. it's a skill that even aziraphale, with his appreciation for humanity, hasn't quite grasped yet

i don't think we'll ever actually see the grigori in good omens, since they're not too widely known of, but they fit so perfect to the good omens theme of discussing human morality and behaviour that we see debated by crowley and aziraphale. they'd both have very different, very strong, feelings about the grigori and their fate- which is fun to think about

#ask #i am fascinated by grigori if it isn't obvious enough asdf i'm s o r r y for that #i definitely deviated from the original point #good omens #crowley #angel!crowley #i called them grigori wayy more than 'the watchers' here but they're called 'the watchers' more often in theology/also the bible #i just prefer 'grigori' #it sounds nicer #please please p l e a s e talk to me about the grigori bc obsession doesn't quite cover it #also what i love so much about the grigori is how you can interpret that story and it's implications in so many different ways #i'd l o v e to write something for this but honestly i'd be too invested and it would be too long so i am choosing ~peace~ #ohhh also also when you remember the grigori side it brings a whole new level of angst to the mysopotamia/noah's ark time period- #for both crowley and aziraphale!! #oh the brainworms are brainworming #i'll never stop thinking about this