#core4 key traits

[shallowseeker]

Natural crisis points in The Winchesters character arcs and struggles

(Image from fangasm)

If it ever comes back for a short run or the characters appeared in later SPN incarnations, The Winchesters has a lot of built-in crisis points to power it forward.

I think overall, Robbie Thompson built them moderately well, because below are intrinsic qualities to each of them! He's good at building complex heroes, if he only has the time to follow through.

I. Fans as demonic forces

There are OG!fans actively rooting against it, which is VERY helpful for the writing team because such figures can immediately become an endless supply for bad-guy motives, villain monologues, demonic taunts, and dark mirrors.

Anyway, for characters, here's what I think:

///

MAIN SERIES THEMES

#1 BREAKING: Everyone has a breaking point, and when you do, you humans...your edges are sharp. You'll cut each other into ribbons. Familial counter: So, we'll break! But we'll be there to help pick each other up again. Even if it hurts. Even if we bleed. #2 DESTINED IDENTITY: You are who I say you are. Because I'm the only one who really knows you. You were written to be what I say you are. Familiar counter: I am my own person! No matter what you say. No matter how you wrote it before. #3 HUMAN-ING WRONG/FIXING OTHERS: You think you can fix them. Classic blunder. You can't. They're unfixable. Miswired. They were just born wrong, you know. Always running into danger. "John is a lost cause, he'll always devolve into abuser," etc etc. Familial counter: Maybe people don't need fixing. Maybe they just need to be accepted. Maybe, sometimes, they just need support!

#4 PEACE OR FREEDOM: Which would you rather have, peace or freedom? Familial counter: Both!

///

ALT MARY

Fear, powerlessness, destiny, entrapment, & the timeless Campbell classism of assumed stupidity

Go on, Mary. Trade your future for your blessed, blessed present.

No Mary Winchester in any timeline anywhere ever triumphed, because she is just too easy to trap. So are you.

You think you're a hunter? You're prey. Like an impala on the open savannah.

You're easily manipulated Mary, because you're just dumb, like all those backwoods Campbells.

We wanted the Winchesters for their brains, but we wanted you for your body. That's all you're good for. A weapon, a vessel.

("Stay present," was such an oft-repeated line for Alt!Mary. We could twist that into short-sightedness, I think.) ///

ALT JOHN

The worst version of yourself & the complicated gray of the Men of Letters; the arrogance of trying to be "the brains" and trying to be "lone wolf"

Become who you were meant to be.

I know who you really are, because I wrote you that way.

You're an abuser, a murderer, a bigot. It's your destiny.

You're just a soldier, a tool of war. A blunt hammer that hammers his own fuckin' thumb.

You're going to become the monster at the end of this book, John.

And the best part? You're going do it to yourself.

"I'm a John understander, you see."

So, go on.

Be all that you can be.

///

CARLOS

Doomed to be alone and fearful of reaching out; you become embittered by the constant pain of loss; you're so pathetically needy

You say you won't play my game, but you don't even see how you're already playing it.

You don't want to be alone, do you?

You actually want chaos to stay together. What if I told you that hunting could be forever? Would you choose it? I think you would, no matter who it hurt.

You're the weakest link because you're so desperate and needy.

When you have your own chance of happiness, you can't even be happy for yourself; you're fundamentally broken (re:Anthony)

You're too busy steeling yourself for the loss that you ruin everything, so why bother wanting?

Might as well cut it out now before the love gets its hooks in you too deeply.

It's your foolish, reckless altruism that winds up hurting everyone around you. Irony's a bitch, ain't it?

///

LATA

Violence is inevitable, even for you.

You're not a good person. That's just how you get through your day.

One thing writing taught me is that anyone can do anything if you know where to put the right amount of pressure.

And it's beautiful how desperately you want to be good, and yet every action you take always hurts someone.

Your hands aren't really clean. You like to watch, don't you? You're just a hypocrite.

You let innocents die, just because you wouldn't go against your principles.

Or, you know--your tragic cowardice.

Everyone around you succumbs to violence because you're poison.

So go ahead and have your cake and eat it, too, Lata.

I hope you choke on it.

///

MILLIE WINCHESTER

"Sooner or later, everyone is gonna leave you."

How can you turn your back on your dream to chase your husband's shadow?

It's gonna kill all three of you before the show's over, you know.

You warned John not to go down this path, and now you're the one lighting the way.

Doing this won't bring Henry back to you, you know.

You weren't there for him.

When he walked out that door, he said I love you.

You were silent.

///

ADA MONROE

Kill him. Kill your son.

I told you, Ada. Cute cuddly half-breed pups become the biggest, baddest wolves.

When push comes to shove, you know what's gonna happen.

You've always known that he'll turn.

He'll turn on you.

Would you rather your son die at the hands of a stranger?

If it has to be done, wouldn't you rather it be by your merciful, loving hands?

You can die with him if you like. An equalizer of sorts.

Or maybe...you think that if you become powerful, become successful enough, you'll have enough power to protect you and him. Control him if it comes down to it.

You can always try.

You'll never be powerless again, you say?

I'll take that bet. Don't say I didn't warn you.

#spnwin #core4 #core4 key traits #twc #the winchesters #alt mary #alt john #alt mary/john #carlos cervantez #latika desai #spn theme ideas #millie winchester #ada monroe #savethewinchesters #core4 + fate #core4 + personal struggles #core4 + breaking and healing together #spn prequel #supernatural

[shallowrambles]

Alt John/Mary and a The Very Real, Very Good conversation in 1x12

John & Mary have a wonderful fight in SPNwin 1x12 Tears of a Clown. It was my favorite one. I'm not even being facetious.

I know there is a crowd lying in wait, like Fate, rooting actively again alt!Mary/John, because we *think* we know who they are. See this post for more of my thoughts on that. But basically, with The Winchesters, the audience divides itself thus:

Team free will - Hope is the whole point. Go, Monster Club!

Team who cares - There's no point. (Nihilism)

Team fun and games - They can enjoy themselves so long as the future stays.

Team Fate - I've decided who John and Mary are; they cannot change or triumph.

However... Regardless of the challenges they face, this fight in Tears of a Clown is an incredibly, incredibly honest one.

Because this is the tough stuff. Because it's not the FATE part of coming together and falling in love that's the interesting part. It's the staying together part, the growing together (or apart) part. The struggling together and choosing part.

//// So, anyway, the episode opens with a literal rearview mirror:

JOHN: All right? Once my mom and Betty find evidence to clear my name, uh... be able to put all this in the rearview. MARY: Rearview? It's like you're pretending nothing ever happened.

That sets up John's struggle, as well as the bones of the fight. I think the coolest part about their fight is that they're both right. It's like an issue of Cosmopolitan. This is not a sign of weakness in a relationship. It's a sign of deepening strength.

These are the fights family is made of. Tell them what you’re expecting and where your needs aren't being met; then, negotiate if they can healthily be met. Talk about the problems that you both are facing and how you can solve them. Constructive criticism once in a while is healthy.

/////

Furthermore, Mary does a huge, incredibly vulnerable thing here. She reveals her doubts.

To reveal your own anxieties is Really Something. To reveal your anxieties about a relationships is The Crucial Step beyond the you-can-never-hurt-me, you-would-never-let-me-down phase of the relationship.

"One of the most marvelous aspects of (the early) stage is not only the idealized way we see our partner but the new, more laudable way we see ourselves. Listening closely comes easily to us, as does giving the ideal response. Our patience seems eternal, our interest in the other boundless. Who knew that we possessed such generosity, such largeness of spirit? How delightful it feels to live with an open heart, bountiful compassion, and unconditional care. In the shelter of our love bubble, it’s easy to think we can float in such pure happiness forever." - Carroll, Linda. Love Cycles (p. 8). New World Library. Kindle Edition.

Mary and John, at this snapshot in time, are moving beyond the specter of the frozen-in-time-idealized-love. This is perfectly illustrated by Harper Sayles in SPN Prime 14x08's Optimism.

SPN Prime 14x08 (Optimism):

HARPER SAYLES: Jack, it's the best kind of love. Without baggage or compromise. And all the other guys, none of them are like Vance. Strong and courageous and..

He never let me down. So what if I had to kill him in the end? Every relationship has its stuff, right? (Oh, Harper...)

SPNwin 1x12 (Tears of a Clown) + alt Mary/John + a relationship moving beyond limerence?

MARY: What if our relationship is the problem? JOHN: Wanna tell me how hunting an evil clown suddenly makes you think we have issues? MARY: Not hunting Limbo. Talking to Clarence about what happened to his brother. JOHN: Mary, that doesn't make any sense. Clarence used the carnival as an escape so his brother wouldn't have to face his problems.

And here it is. The mirror is making Mary think, making her worry, making her see things in a new light. This conflict is the actual stuff souls are made of. ("Souls are messy, all confusion. Conflict." -Asmodeus, SPN Prime 13x07)

Notably, Mary is not doing a one-to-one comparison theorem here: To suggest that these two brothers, Roger and Clarence, "have similar problems to us, ergo they must be romantically entangled," would be a strange conclusion indeed.

She is simply witnessing this incredible challenge to a loving relationship, and it's making her think. Making her examine herself. (I'm generally in agreement that all family and relationship stories are love stories. Yes, I think Save the Cat even gets that right about buddy comedies.)

MARY: Don't you think it's possible that you've been using our relationship in the same way? JOHN: Okay, so our relationship is a circus carnival in this metaphor. MARY: No. It's something happy to distract you from your issues. And it's been working, because ever since we left Lawrence, you've been pretending that we've been on vacation together instead of on the run for Kyle's murder. Either that, or you're flying off the handle because it's like you're totally ignoring reality. JOHN: I'm ignoring reality? You're honestly gonna stand here and act like you're not avoiding your issues, too? OK, what about life after Hunting or us? MARY: Well, I applied to college, and I got in. JOHN: Great. And then what have you done since? Have you accepted the offer? Have you enrolled for any classes? Have you taken a second to think about how any of this works if I'm still Hunting? MARY: Sorry I'm too busy trying to save the world. JOHN: There it is, Mary, the eternal excuse. I mean, admit it... the second your future got real, you did what you always do. You buried your head in the Hunting sand so you wouldn't have to think about college or our relationship. MARY: You know what? Think what you want. I don't have time for this. JOHN: And there you go, proving my point.

Right after this, Mary stumbles onto a clue to Limbo, because Mary is quite literally running from making difficult decisions. (BUT she's voicing her grievances, which is a great first step.)

They fact that they vent their frustrations to each other shows vulnerability, trust, and growing strength.

The disillusionment stage can be completely healthy and a necessary component of an evolving partnership:

"It takes most of us a long time to look candidly at ourselves, partly because we become so obsessed with the faults of our partner and the generally distressed state of our relationship. Back in the first stage (how long ago that now seems!) we exaggerated the depth and breadth of the best qualities of our partner. Now, in the third stage, we flip-flop between attachment and disillusionment. How unremittingly annoying he is! How outrageously self-centered she is! Both extremes of viewpoint — my partner is fabulous in all ways and my partner is worthless — are gross distortions. Our challenge is to understand our seesawing hearts, and then to act from a more balanced place. That’s the goal. Until we reach it, though, we may endure some trying times. - Carroll, Linda. Love Cycles (p. 59). New World Library. Kindle Edition.

So, in her vulnerable state, Mary gets trapped. SPNwin 1x12:

MARY: We can be together where there aren't any problems. And we never have to fight again, about my future or your anger. We can be happy in Limbo's tent forever. JOHN: But none of it would be real...Mary. There's a world out there we have to save. MARY: Limbo can protect us from all of that here. All you have to do is look in the mirror behind me. JOHN: No. We're leaving. Come on.

(Because it's not The Dream. It's A Dream.)

Interestingly, John makes the right choice here. He resolves not to look in the rearview mirror. He makes the choice to leave...and the villain intervenes, like it's chiding, "You're not allowed to heal, John. I won't allow you to heal."

And because Mary refuses to leave stasis, she's invertedly dragged John into stasis with her. Because although she is not responsible for John's happiness, they affect each other's happiness. John is waiting for her.

CLOWN: A bit of misdirection. I'm sorry to have to trick you, John. Now, put a smile on that face.

///

And so, they emerge, with new perspectives, but it's not a magic fix:

LATA: Do the two of you remember it, when you were clowns? MARY: Yeah, all of it. LATA: How terrifying. MARY: Actually, it was kind of nice. /// JOHN: So, do you really mean that? MARY: Didn't it feel good to you, not having to worry about our problems for a second, not to have to worry about us? JOHN: Maybe. But it also made me realize that you were right. I have been ignoring things because it's easier than facing the truth. I'm sorry for that. I am also sorry for being so angry with you. MARY: I guess I got kind of angry myself, you calling me a hypocrite and all. But you were right too. Thinking about the future is scary. JOHN: So, we good?

Maybe they're not "good," but they're trying to be. And that's the part that's real.

So, there we have it. Mirrors are ruminations, meditations, wishes, reflections. They are not Truth with a capital T, so much as they are questions. You can get trapped in them if you're not careful.

SPN Prime 1x05:

Sam: Right. I mean there’s a lot of folklore about mirrors-that they reveal all your lies, all your secrets, that they’re a true reflection of your soul, which is why it’s bad luck to break them. Dean: Right, right. So maybe if you’ve got a secret, I mean like a really nasty one where someone died, then Mary sees it, and punishes you for it.

But Sam is WRONG. Mirrors are NOT necessarily true. They can be misdirection. They can even trick you into seeing the worst outcome, the worst self.

But ultimately, you make your own Fate. You can reject the falsity you see and break that fucking mirror to smithereens. (You see, you gotta know yourself pretty deeply and courageously in order to determine if the mirror's got any truth to it.)

#spn 1x12 #alt mary/john #spnwin #mary/john + dream worlds #mary/john + mirrors #harper sayles #spn + no baggage no compromise #spnwin + #core4 + key traits