#but the problem is that bat canon decided he was going to magically gel with everyone bc he was emotionally more well adjusted than bruce

[roobylavender]

(Really long ask ahead i’m sorry!) I think your thoughts on dick and his similarities vs differences to bruce are so interesting! Personally i’m wondering how much of NTT played an influence on this kind of characterization bc i’ve never fully finished ntt but i read like nearly all the pre-80s batman 1940 issues lol and dick very much was portrayed as more idealistic than bruce in some ways while more no-nonsense (? For lack of better word) in other ways, like when it comes to batman easing up a little on selina for romance reasons LOL. Though ofc dick totally turns into - well, a dick - in team books, as i grow older i find myself far more compelled by a potential story of an 18 yr old who seemed to have the whole weight of the world on his shoulders (by his own perception) and breaking under his own impractically strong sense of duty and sky-high expectations for others, then realizing as he grows older that it doesn’t have to be that way esp after seeing the perspectives of characters like kory, wally, joey, roy, etc. Like personally as someone who never really had a huge interest in NTT anyway, i’m surprised at how desperately people want to hold on to the characterization of dick when he was 18-19 and never letting him grow past that, like it’s so difficult for me to believe that at age 25 he would be the same uptight controlling kid that he was at 19. Maybe i’m biased though bc i was like one of those insufferable INTJ internet stereotypes as a teenager, and while that worldview did bring me achievements i’m proud of like the fact that i’m in med school rn studying what i love, i still know that at age 22 i have changed SO much from when i was 18 and i can’t imagine any reasonably mature or normally-functioning person (let alone someone high-functioning like dick) not doing the same lol. Especially since dick is the kind of person who would literally die if he’s not constantly growing and evolving past his faults bc of his insufferable perfectionism, idk how he’d be willfully blind to the negative effects of his worldview in early NTT and refuse to grow from there. He even has a quote that’s like “i’ve spent years as a student of my own behavior” which i always found highly encouraging bc i know he really does want to improve himself even at his worst. It reminds me of that Marcus Aurelius quote: “if someone can prove me wrong and show me my mistake in any thought or action, i shall gladly change. I seek the truth, which never harmed anyone; the harm is to persist in one’s own self-deception and ignorance.” But what are your thoughts? (Thank you for reading all this 🥹)

oh i absolutely agree! i cannot tell you how many times i think about the person i was a couple years ago and who i am now like i cringe so much omg.. maturity is an ever persistent process even if we don't recognize its effects immediately and it absolutely is crazy to think that anyone would remain in such a static state of mind for several years on end. esp when like you said dick is someone who wants to be better! so despite his several hypocrisies it is nonetheless in his best interests to look internally and analyze and evolve. and i feel like that very much could have happened had there been any actual segue between dick's breakup with kory and his re-entry into the batfam. i don't think there was much of a connection between these two sets of writers at all and so what you got is what felt like two very distinct parts of dick's life that didn't necessarily reveal a bridge point. so it's not entirely unrealistic that dick may grow to be the person (at least to some extent) that bat canon portrayed him to be in the years that followed but i certainly think as it stands it felt unearned and like all of his issues explored in ntt were conveniently swept to the side without any semblance of closure (albeit i do think some of these issues are addressed in outsiders '03 but in that dickheaded way that winick explores things generally. so i'm not sure it's the kind of closure people actually want). it's very sad and ig that's what people cling to more than anything. it's not that they're opposed to him growing to be a better person but that they're opposed to a version of dick who feels like he sprung out of nothing

#ironically enough i Do think dick going back to gotham after the kory breakup made sense #like when something that big happens in your life what are you going to do. seek the advice of the one person you look up to more than anyt #ing right. but marv wolfman complicated things by writing bruce the way he did so rather than bruce playing an active part #in guiding dick through some of his issues and mistakes he instead became dick's burden to bear through extensive post knightfall trauma #and i mean you all know i Love knightfall. i really do it gives me brainworms upon brainworms #but i wish there had been just one moment. like after it was all over. that bruce and dick actually got to talk and like #discuss dick's problems yknow #i get the feeling they didn't delve much when writing prodigal bc they had to set up the next arcs and stuff but it's like #come on. come on. they could've afforded it. if dick really had to come back to gotham for a temporary stint where he tried to find himself #than a proper conversation with bruce about what he was going through should have been a part of that #bc i do think working with bruce's new cavalry of three teen heroes (tim / steph / cass) would have borne wonderful opportunities #for dick to grow as a leader and peer considering his ridiculous expectations of others and how this would measure up against teenagers #but the problem is that bat canon decided he was going to magically gel with everyone bc he was emotionally more well adjusted than bruce #was. like ok. ok. whateverrrrrrrr #like idk it's so funny they were given a dick with a plethora of issues and instead of using any of that ammo they were like nah #we're going to make our lives harder and give him new problems manifested out of thin air. totally makes sense. bullseye #outbox