#but also a lot of the less tropey stuff out there by POC

[lexpistachio]

Hi lex, i had a question. Are there lgbtq books/comics that you enjoyed that you think are more representative and are narratively better than cp? If you do i would love to check more out and get a feel for the differences.

Not gonna lie, I’ve been hemming and hawing about how to answer this ask haha. But thank you for your q!!!

Yes, there are a lot of lgbt books/comics that I have enjoyed better than CP and that I think are narratively better and which treatment of LGBT issues I did find more satisfying.

But I’ve also read (and critiqued) CP by itself, like how I read any other works, and try to come up with things that are objectively enjoyable about it and things I don’t like about it in a vacuum.  I wanted to shy away from making any comparisons, lest it be incongruous or void. I didn’t want to be unfair in comparing it to a work of a different medium or genre, or make hierarchies on works that tackle LGBT issues based on their treatment of it. And anyway, I feel like the brunt of my criticisms about CP has something to do with its abandonment of some of its storylines and its uncompelling character arcs and story. That is to say, I think… maybe any other well-structured, well-written story will do? 

For instance, I just recently finished Andre Aciman’s Call Me By Your Name, and it’s a coming-of-age love story between two guys with a sizeable age difference, and further, it’s a story where there are no extrinsic deterrents to their relationship and what drives the story are just their feelings, how they act on it and don’t act on it, and y’all it doesn’t even tackle coming out, or homophobia; in those aspects, you can compare it to CP, and it just does a better job of addressing the issue of age difference or in general, just expressing the nature of desire and physicality and confusion that comes with First Love. The younger guy’s insecurity, while it was assuaged, never really went away, but at least it was addressed. Are the two works really comparable? No. But did I enjoy it better? Absolutely. And it’s the same for like, I guess 90% of LGBT works I’ve read vis a vis CP.

And I have read a lot of stuff. In the interest of full disclosure, I did grow up reading shonen-ai and yaoi?? If you know what those are, you won’t be surprised at how fluffy comics with “queer” characters has existed long before CP (or, while at it, how reminiscent zim*its is of a traditional yaoi pairing with the Hunky Seme and blushing virginal Uke; might be also why i hate the pairing for how i’ve seen that dynamics a million times before). Though I make no value judgments about yaoi, I guess what I’m trying to say is that there are a LOT of romance (and even scifi and fantasy) LGBT works that don’t focus on queer issues, and they aren’t less enjoyable for that fact. The key is deciding early on if queer issues such as  homophobia is something to be dealt with in the comic’s universe, and not flip flop midway and ending lacklustre and lacking like how CP did it. I guess I wanted to address the point that our criticisms of its lack of discussion about stuff is waived because CP is “supposed to be fluffy”; I maintain that it’s worthy of criticism because it wasn’t consistent on its discussion. Shhh this stays as a secret lol but one of the earliest yaoi novel I remember reading was this pulp trashy novel Only The Ring Finger Knows and it’s about two guys falling for each other and navigating their relationship and living together and they don’t really face scrutiny for being gay. But all their insecurities and all the misunderstandings were addressed properly, and it’s not Man Booker material but I remember feeling satisfied.

In addition, I do believe that the Coming Out story where the protagonist comes out stronger™ for it is as cliche as they come. 

One of the most nonchalant mention of sexuality that I can remember is from one of my favorite webcomics ever– The Less Than Epic Adventures of TJ and Amal--when TJ gets asked if he’s gay and he replies, “I ping all I am ninja.” But it’s also a story about a POC who’s gay and trapped in an arranged marriage, but it doesn’t dwell on that and the story keeps moving. At the heart of that comic is just two guys finding themselves and falling in love while on a roadtrip. That’s as tropey as you get, and yet the character development is to die for.

There’s a lot of LGBT stories where the queerness aren’t used solely as a device to drive a larger story. There is A LOT.

Off the top of my head, Sarah Waters has historical novels like Fingersmith and Tipping the Velvet that are more plot-driven, doesn’t deal with the queer issues, but have women falling in love and being happy together. Fingersmith is also where the movie The Handmaiden is based from, which if you haven’t watched, should. Some of David Levithan’s stories deal with homophobia, but most are just guys falling in love and being happy and cute.  Hanya Yanagihara’s A Little Life–a read I don’t recommend to anyone dear to me– has its protagonist fall in love with his Hollywood celebrity best friend (though I think the takeaway from this novel is that love doesn’t cure trauma, though people suffering from it can be happy) and there is no fuss about their queerness at all, and the book is actually nominated for a Man Booker.

There are also works like Aristotle and Dante Discover the Secrets of the Universe (POC, LGBT), or Perry Moore’s Hero, or  Tillie Walden’s autobiographical graphic novel Spinning (LGBT, sports) that are about coming-of-age and aren’t afraid to tackle the warping effect of homophobia, the feelings of shame and fear that comes with being queer in a realistic world, and yet did not demure to end on a hopeful note.

I know the webcomic Tripping Over You is but a fluffy slice-of-life that’s just two guys who are in a relationship, talking it out and that’s it?? And it’s satisfying, and I can’t help but highlight how the coming out story of one of its characters, Liam, to his father was nothing but his decision to make, despite all the hiding he did was affecting his relationship with his partner as well. That coming out arc was a blip in the larger story arcs that are… their relationship and about being adults. 

And I mean you even have fanfics that include that feature its characters coming out, and I have read a disturbing amount of fics you guys, even hockey rpf featuring different pairings, that discuss the issues that CP seemed to present (but didn’t follow through on) in a better way. I remember this lowkey one about a beat reporter starting a relationship with a professional hockey player, and the difference in their status is addressed, financially and in other terms, and that both of them are fully cognizant about these things as they proceed with the relationship. And the hopeful coming out scenario is a product of playing out the consequences of it and the alternative. I also remember this moment in that fic where the main POV character deals with a panic attack with his partner present, and it’s so much powerful to me than anything CP has shown about mental health. 

In terms of mental health, I remember reading Tobias and Guy which is as light and fluffy as you get when a guy (literally named Guy) falls in love with a demon guy, and has this arc when Guy dealt with depression while in that relationship, and it was short and succinct but dared one of its characters to at least ask “but his family are loving and are supportive of him. how can he think like that?” for the sake of expounding the topic. I think it’s an okay portrayal of how partners in a relationship might deal in a situation where on suffers from mental health illness. I feel like the show You’re The Worst has also been exemplary in that regard. SKAM’s season 3  deals with internal homophobia and mental health illness while in a relationship and coming out (with none of the backlash of homophobia like CP) but doesn’t deal with cliches, and remains as a compelling and moving story.

In terms of insight into sports, a notable read for me is Nina Revoyr’s The Necessary Hunger (LGBT, POC, Sports), as it treated the sport the characters are in as integral part of who they are, which, I think is an effective use of the sports as a genre. As a manga-reader though, I’ve been spoiled by sports manga which are the best! sports! comics! (Slam Dunk! Hajime no Ippo! Hikaru no Go!) because they deal with their respective sport with so much insight, aplomb and passion, viewed in the eyes of the hero who’s in a journey to triumph. In manga, even baking bread can be a sport haha. To be honest these sports comics don’t need to have an athlete’s insider info on the world it’s set in. They just have to be believable. CP, I think, lacks both believability and insight, and more importantly, a deep tangible way the sports affects its protagonist. I find that so unsatisfying. I’m looking forward to how well C.S. Pacat’s Fence does.

My favorite college slice-of-life comic isn’t LGBT however, but it’s about a group of occasionally-starved college students in an art school. I read/saw the anime when I was in high school and has since stuck with me. I was equally invested in each of the characters’ storylines, not much like how I lost interest in CP after Rans and Holster and Shitty and Lardo were relegated to the fawning supportive straight friends stereotypes. The main romance doesn’t detract from the characters having their own stories and careers they want to fulfill. Even the POV character, who wasn’t my fave, had an endearing and compelling story.

As a bottomline: I don’t think there is a holy grail of lgbt works insomuch as they subjectively appeals to us. These are just some works that stand out to my memory and there are various takeaways from each for our purpose of comparison, but there are tons of material out there, LGBT and otherwise. SERIOUSLY. And I think there’s nothing wrong with trying it out one work at a time, see if it pings you. Trust your judgment friend!

#this answer is A MESS i'm sorry #omgcheckplease #omgcp #omgcp_critical #lukestarrunner