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elizabethshaw · 1 year

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need to get this all out somehow, so - thoughts and general ramblings on the new eight-liv-helen audios! under the cut for spoiler purposes:

so! general overview - this boxset was. so so good. i really enjoyed last month’s release as well, but this was on another level for me entirely and despite listening to most of it past midnight (i was busy from about 8am until 11.30 at night. tuesdays are just like that every week unfortunately) and so probably not being in the best state of... anything, really, for it, i genuinely enjoyed this set so much and am in all honesty going slightly mad not being able to talk about it to anyone irl. anyway

episode-by-episode thoughts:

here lies drax

- this was a very fun one! now i’ve listened to the full set it does feel a little out of place tonally (this was very much a comedy and the other two. weren’t), but it was definitely enjoyable and had a clever plot

- i did actually do my homework for this one and listened to “the trouble with drax” the other week in preparation! (it was the first time i’d listened to one of four’s audios, actually, which was an interesting experience.) i feel like having that context definitely helped understanding a lot of the references going on, but i do wonder if i’d gone into this cold i would’ve enjoyed it a little more because it did feel at some points like it was retreading “trouble”’s beats a bit. hmm

- i did enjoy it overall though (it was very very funny), and i did like the way it all eventually panned out with all the guest characters being drax except the one character actually credited as drax. definitely appealed to my sense of humour

- there was something so deeply funny to me about the entire funeral scene, but especially the part with eight, whose experience of it up to that point had been all the guests turning up late and one of them straight up shooting the corpse, turning to liv and helen and going “this is exactly how i want my funeral to go”. what is going on in his head <3

- also shoutout to “can you legally shoot a corpse?” i have been wanting to make an out of context clips compilation for this era for ages now and if i ever do get round to doing it that line is definitely going in there

- “i think i want to scream” helen being a mood once again. this is how i have felt for the past 5 weeks at least

the love vampires

- this is currently very closely tied with “albie’s angels” for my favourite episode of both this boxset and this era of standalone stories with the team so far. it’s SO GOOD

- while i do definitely like the more fun, adventure-based episodes, i feel like my real niche with dr who stories is ones that really dig into the characters and this is a great example of the latter category. i was optimistic for this one anyway because, from my limited experience with his big finish work, james kettle seems like a really good writer for character-based stories, but it really exceeded my expectations for it. the character work (especially for helen) was absolutely brilliant!

- CANON QUEER HELEN FINALLY!!!!!!! 🎉 🎉 🎉 🎉

- i listened to the bit where that was confirmed when i was in public and let me tell you it was an absolutely huge effort to not completely lose my shit. i’m fairly sure i was grinning like an idiot the whole way through though

- honestly this whole episode was just fantastic for helen content generally. i am biased because she’s one of my all-time favourite characters, but that 100% drove the whole thing up in my estimation

- hattie morahan’s performance in this (and the next episode) was absolutely brilliant, some of her best in dw imo

- “great. van helsing in space” i don’t particularly have anything to add here i just think this line was fun

- liv’s first love as revealed by this episode is called petko. i looked the name up and apparently it’s bulgarian, and all i’m saying is that this is definitely adding to my “kaldor and slavic languages theory” 😌

- also like. liv’s scene with her respective vampire was so sad??? like i just got this feeling of overwhelming loneliness from it, and... yeah. someone get that woman a hug

- LOTS of thoughts about the scene between eight and liv where he gets her to promise to kill him if things go wrong. it’s actually shorter than i thought it was (went back and relistened for the purposes of making this bullet point), but there is a Lot to unpack there and i think it does highlight some of the stuff that makes their dynamic so interesting. i just don’t see that same scene happening with many other doctor-companion dynamics and, well... many thoughts

- “we’ll go out together. blaze of glory.” undescribable emotions™

- cutting away from the character stuff for a brief moment to discuss a) the atmosphere. the whole vibe of this story was so well-done, including the sound design, it felt really claustrophobic and creepy in the best way, really effective. and b) i thought the becoming were neat. i just think that’s a super cool name for an alien race :)

- “i sometimes think i can be a bit too... buttoned-up... emotionally.” “no... i- i wouldn’t say that.” “why? it’s obviously true.” eight my friend you are not helping here At All <3

albie’s angels

- okay so i’ve somehow got into a mindset where every time a new audio with this tardis team comes out i am absolutely convinced that helen is going to die in it. i thought this was going to be the episode where it happens and let me tell you i am so relieved that i was wrong!!!

- (i still reckon she’s doomed by the narrative though. this is a line of thought that’s really enough for a post of its own so i won’t elaborate here, but yeah. i am still not convinced her ending is going to be a happy one)

- this episode did however utterly wreck me emotionally (affectionate)

- really enjoyed the intro scene! i just like them getting to be silly together, even if it wasn’t for long :’)

- “didn’t we do enough damage to this decade already? put it another way, didn’t it do enough damage to us?” yeah :/

- albie was absolutely lovely :’) he was so sweet and kind and had so much love to give?? he may only be in one episode but i’d die for him

- also interesting to note how genuinely similar he seemed to helen? like they obviously have fairly distinct and different personalities but there were a lot of like, small mannerisms and stuff that they shared and it just really added something to their dynamic. they actually felt like siblings, really makes me wish that dw would do sibling duos like this more often tbh

- “helen chenka” i am trying so hard to be normal about liv/helen and keep my expectations for what’ll happen with them in check and every day i am tested. what the fuck.

- actually you know what this entire episode had a LOT of liv/helen moments??? like i kinda just assumed the whole thing was dead in the water after stranded but now... i’m having a lot of thoughts. maybe that big finish tweet from august or whenever it was was right

- the snowball fight scene. i will actually be thinking about this forever.

- the revelation that albie had been a few miles away from helen at most the entire time she was still on earth but neither of them had known and got to see each other totally wrecked me ngl

- and also the fact that his arrest was so close in time to the events of helen’s first episode! before this i’d assumed it had happened when helen was still fairly young, but now thinking about how her grief for him would have been so new and raw during “the red lady”... god this is actually destroying me

- (given that “absent friends” probably takes place a maximum of about two weeks after “the red lady” as well, the implication there that helen basically loses her entire family in the space of a few months is heartbreaking)

- “what else did helen tell you?” “not much. i don’t know if she couldn’t or wouldn’t. but after that conversation...” “yes?” “that was pretty much it, she... shut down.” “that’s our helen.” “she means a lot to me, you know.” “to both of us.” this whole scene was a Lot in general, but the way that both liv and eight genuinely care about helen so much?? the way that they’re recognising and acknowledging the fact that she’s not okay and in a good place mentally and hasn’t been for a long time?? the bond this team have means so much to me istg

- this episode said the real villains are homophobia and capitalism and it was right

- i was not expecting the lesbian weeping angels at all but you know what? good for them. i hope they’re living their best lives now

- roy gill really just went and almost single-handedly gave helen one of her best arcs in the entire show and i respect him so much for that. i hope he comes back as a writer for this tardis team at some point because he just absolutely gets what they’re all about.

- the tragedy of it all combined with the ray of light in that albie and bailey got to be happy together, and that helen got to see her brother one last time... it was such a bittersweet ending and i feel like it was absolutely perfect for the story and for this arc as a whole

- song for helen broke me completely. i was sobbing at it in a dark room at 2.30 am and honestly i feel like that says everything.

so yeah. overall really really loved these three episodes!!! genuinely looking forward to where they’re going to go next with these characters, i feel like there’s some real potential for amazing stuff down the line :)

#bethan talks about dw #bethan listens to big finish #dw spoilers #feels like it's been a long time since i've actually posted any thoughts (or just. any original content oops) on here!#rest assured i have been thinking about dr who all the time though :)#(although admittedly it has been recently sharing brain space with the pleasant green universe audios bc i've been relistening)#anyway hope you're all having a good day!! sorry for rambling so much haha

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elizabethshaw · 2 years

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Absolutely losing my shit as we speak

#enjoyed that so so much!!!!!!!#but have so many questions now aaaaarghhdhhfhtjjgkgskdk #dw spoilers #bethan talks about dw #also straight up cried when ian came onscreen ✌️

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elizabethshaw · 2 years

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this is very niche, but you know what? it'd be really cool if liz and helen met.

they're both very similar in a lot of ways - both from similar points in earth's history, both super smart queer women trying make their way in their respective fields but not being taken seriously and given the respect they merit - but also have some real differences (not least in their experiences with tardis travel, or lack of), and i just think there's a lot of potential for good interactions there. it's definitely something i'd be up for if big finish/anyone else ever considered doing it

#plus they're two of my faves so it has the bonus of appealing to me personally #bethan talks about dw #liz shaw #helen sinclair

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elizabethshaw · 3 years

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Anyway time to start the prayer circle for a companion who isn't from modern day earth

#bethan talks about dw

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elizabethshaw · 2 years

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I've only had Dan for one episode but I already love him

#excellent vibes 10/10 #doctor who #dan lewis #dw spoilers #(not really but like. yknow)#bethan talks about dw

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elizabethshaw · 2 years

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Honestly think one of my all-time favourite War Doctor moments has got to be that scene in his first audio story where all the Time Lords think he's died and hold a funeral for him, so when one of the War Council's agents finds he is, in fact, alive, and tries to conscript him he just flat out goes "i'm legally dead you can't make me do shit" and refuses to go back to Gallifrey. Absolutely iconic.

#'well veklin. i'm afraid i'm dead. didn't you know?' my beloved <3 #i haven't actually listened to these since april but i do still think abt them on a semi-regular basis #they're not perfect by any means but are actually a hell of a lot of fun #bethan listens to big finish #bethan talks about dw #war doctor #anyway. i know almost no one on here likes/cares abt the war doctor all that much #but i love him. he's an idiot and i love him

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elizabethshaw · 2 years

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okay! stranded 4 thoughts, can’t guarantee they’ll be coherent but i can say there’s gonna be a LOT of them:

so, base thoughts to start off - loved it!! i was. uh. apprehensive going in, but overall i really, really enjoyed the vast majority of it. episodes 1-3 were right up my alley personally, and while i’m more conflicted on the finale, there were definitely still many things about it that i liked. and, most importantly, HELEN DIDN’T DIE!!! all is right with the universe etc etc

the ending also gives me hope that the audios in november/december might be with the eight/liv/helen trio (or at the very least eight and helen), which will be something nice to look forward to!

anyway, thoughts on each episode -

crossed lines:

- after stranded 3, which i did enjoy for the most part but which i also felt sidelined helen a lot compared to the rest of the team, it was really nice to see her getting more to do in this one! she felt a lot more actively involved in the plot, which i appreciated (i *promise* this won’t all just be me talking about helen, but she is my favourite, so. be warned.)

- i actually really enjoyed colin baker’s interpretation of the curator! it was super neat how, while still very much being the same character as the one we already knew, he took on bits of six’s personality and behaviour and kind of became his own thing in many ways? it was definitely a gamble, but one i think they pulled off well

- “i’m from the future! and it’s not often i get to say that!” helen was so excited about getting to tell someone that haha. bless her <3

- i’d had some suspicions that mr bird might have been future robin before, so i wasn’t totally taken by surprise by that revelation, but i have to admit i didn’t actually pick up on the whole “robin”-”bird” wordplay at all until they made it clear in the episode lmao... it was so obvious and yet...

- liked how trippy this episode felt, shifting between times and locations - it’s something that always feels very “doctor who” to me in a lot of ways and i think it was used cleverly here

get andy:

- i was, on reading the synopses for each episode, expecting to enjoy this, but also expecting it to probably be my least favourite of the bunch. how wrong i was. this episode owns my soul now. it’s looking very likely to be one of my favourite stranded episodes, if not my outright favourite. (which, considering how much i love “unit dating” and “wild animals”, is saying a lot)

- to put it simply, i’m an absolute sucker for the found family trope, and the eight/liv/helen team have it in spades, which is a big part of the reason i fell for their era so hard when i started listening to it last july, and why the hyperfixation that started then is still ongoing. this episode really got to the core of their dynamic, and the way that this era is above all built on the love they have for each other, and it just did everything for me <3

- all the scenes with eight and the tardis projections of liv and helen just got to me so much. and the flashbacks too??? i just loved all those snapshots of adventures we never actually saw (well, heard. whatever), they were just wonderful

- the flashback where liv and helen gave eight a surprise birthday party actually made me cry, not because it was particularly sad (it really wasn’t!!) but more because it just really hit home then how much this team love each other. just... i adore them. i absolutely adore them. i’m losing it even just thinking about this

- also, getting to the other main point of this story for a brief moment, andy! love that guy, i’m *so* glad they got to save him... i was devastated when he was originally killed off in stranded 3

- the andy/bird dynamic was so funny too

- “i’d rather die sooner, in your company, than live a little longer, all alone. to have you here at the end is everything.” THESE THREE ARE EVERYTHING TO ME. EVERYTHING

- god the scenes at the end between liv, helen and andy were so good... i really liked how andy brought a bit of the more grounded torchwood perspective to things, and how that clashed with liv and helen’s “ready to die at any moment” mentality? there was some super interesting conflict there

- and expanding on that, helen’s stuff in that scene was particularly heartbreaking!! “you’ve got tania to stay for, i’ve...” was especially painful tbh - i always get the feeling (particularly in her earlier audios, where her self-esteem problems are more of a plot point) she doesn’t quite realise how much she matters to her friends, how much they care about her?? like she sees herself as more disposable than the others, and seems to think her own sacrifice is more acceptable; it was definitely interesting to see that get brought up and explored a bit again

- i also genuinely thought she was gonna get killed off during that scene, for a brief moment. i’m still not sure i trust big finish to let her see her run on the show off without killing her :/

- on a lighter note, did really love how this ep had the team back at their dysfunctional best again!! love when they’re in “trying, but clearly have no idea whatsoever what they’re actually doing” mode haha

the keys of baker street:

- honestly think roy gill might have been my favourite writer for the stranded arc? he may have only done two episodes but what a two episodes they are

- the concept of each room containing a different flashback, and the house’s keys each unlocking one was so clever, and so smartly executed. it was great as well how it meant all the main trio could face up to some of their darker sides, secrets and regrets, it was a neat device to unlock some of that character drama (no pun intended)

- canon football fan tania?? this is a win for me personally 😌 (outing myself as a football fan here sorry :/ i just think there should be more characters supporting mediocre club teams yknow)

- i’ll admit i’m more of a liv/helen fan than a liv/tania one (though i like both!!), but that scene with liv looking in on tania and robin’s conversation and realising she can’t do/say anything to make tania feel better... ouch

- the analysis of eight’s privileges and the way he doesn’t always acknowledge them... interesting stuff... (i feel like i have more to say on this but i can’t quite get it into words right now? it’s something that will probably come more with a relisten i reckon)

- got a LOT of thoughts abt helen’s particular flashback. there were a lot of things in the preceding episodes, but this one in particular, where it was indicated that there was something going on as regards her coming out arc (the way she goes “i wouldn’t know” when andy mentions things couples do... the way she seemed almost angry or jealous when liv talked about having a girlfriend she “loves very much”... HMM.), but that scene was a whole lot in that department tbh. not only bringing up albie again for the first time (and *god* when she talked about having tried to make up stories where he got a happier life ripped me apart emotionally), but there was very clearly more to it than that, and the other characters noticed too??? i am. having a lot of thoughts.

- “i worry about that girl. i wish she could find some peace.” a) same, b) glad the characters in-universe are taking the view that helen needs to get therapy or something too

- all the language/linguistics references!! yes!!! (i’m a languages student i’m allowed to get excited about this)

- the curator back again too - loved getting to explore his involvement a bit more, and how exactly he fitted into the story!!

- was a big fan of how the day was saved, in the end, by forgiveness and people helping each other to be better. it seemed appropriate for this arc, somehow.

- something something the curator and mr bird fading away together as the story ends... the last parts of the aberrant timeline slipping out of existence... there’s something kinda poetic about that

- jesus christ they really just made the pandemic happen huh

- the whole “the gang lives through the pandemic” thing, while i can understand why they did it, felt kinda off if i’m being totally honest? it’s just. uh. not sure i’m really on board with characters dying of covid and stuff tbh. the pandemic is still very much going on (however much the govt wants to pretend otherwise 🙄), and it felt really weird - and not in a good way - doing the whole thing like it’s something that’s been and gone?? idk man. there were some bits about it i quite liked ig, but it did all feel slightly strange

best year ever:

- honestly, while there are definitely things i liked about this one (it was nice in some ways to have some time with the characters just hanging out and being domestic... i did enjoy that), this is kinda where things fell apart a bit for me

- andy’s shitty zoom quiz was fun though. loved having a bit more reference to the team having No Idea about current cultural references

- the toasting to “absent friends” - that *was* a reference to the doom coalition episode, right?

- also. that intro. “the real 2020. how bad can it be?” EIGHT NO

- the ending. so, positives - nobody died! there’s a possibility for more eight/liv/helen adventures together! it was left open-ended in a nice way! negatives - while i do like liv and tania as a couple, the way their story had been structured throughout this set didn’t do much to convince me that them staying in 2020 was the natural end to it? if this was the end of stranded 3 (which had given a lot more emphasis to their relationship, comparatively), i could’ve maybe seen it, but as things were with the story at this point, it almost didn’t feel quite strong enough for this to be how it ended? i’m hoping this isn’t the last we see of liv too - i love her as a character and this tardis team won’t be the same without her :(

- also, in terms of characterisation, i find it hard to believe that liv “refuses to stay anywhere for an extended period” chenka would be happy to stay and live in the 21st century for the rest of her life? especially not after she was so determined to go and travel in the tardis again

- i’m also really disappointed that, after really building up, especially in episode 3, they did nothing at all with helen’s arc. i was hoping there’d be at least a scene about it somewhere, but there just. wasn’t. it felt like a letdown to be honest :/

but anyway! overall really loved this boxset, and aside from the last story it felt like a really strong ending to this arc! here’s hoping there’ll be more adventures with the team come the autumn :D

#bethan talks about dw #bethan listens to big finish #stranded 4 #stranded spoilers #to anyone who reads through the whole thing - apologies it's so long #(and to most of the people following me - sorry for audioposting again!!)#(ik that's not what most people are probably here for haha)#anyway!! love this tardis team to bits #and SO glad helen survived it all!!

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elizabethshaw · 2 years

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(sorry for talking about the audios again! anyway.)

i've been thinking about eight, liv and helen again, as you do, and uh. came to the realisation that there's never any indication made in canon that eight and liv have ever actually told helen about anything that happened to them during dark eyes, before they met her? off the top of my head, i can only think of about 3 direct references to dark eyes in their audios together (2 of which are made while helen is elsewhere, the one where she is there being liv's "you think i've forgotten molly? martin? any of them?" in ship in a bottle), and i'm just. hm. i get there's a gap in the narrative between dark eyes and doom coalition, but even then... eight and liv both suffered a lot, and had to watch their closest friend die, and i don't think they magically got over it. i don't think any of that pain disappeared.

and they're sitting on all this pain and grief and they just. never tell her. helen doesn't know.

#i am incredibly invested in these characters but i have no one irl or online to talk about them with so!!! here we are #anyway i just have a lot of feelings about this yknow #bethan talks about dw #bethan listens to big finish #helen sinclair #liv chenka #eighth doctor #this was partly triggered by listening to the robots (which is really good btw. 10/10 would recommend)#and they bring up at one point that tula (liv's sister) has No Idea about - at the very least - the time liv spent in stasis on the orpheus #and presumably also doesn't know about the events that led to liv making that choice #and it made me realise that uh. helen doesn't know either. there's never any indication that they tell her

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elizabethshaw · 2 years

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Stranded 4's out today, and it's pretty likely I'll end up posting about it once I've listened through, so just putting it out there that any posts I make will be tagged with "#stranded 4" and "#stranded spoilers" in case anyone wants to avoid spoilers and blacklist those!

#i am. terrified tbh #very excited. but terrified #if anything bad happens to helen i'm rioting #bethan talks about dw #bethan listens to big finish #feel sorry for my friends/family irl that i talk to abt dw...#they have listened to me go on about eight liv and helen since july last year p much nonstop and now it's gonna be Worse #sorry guys 😔

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elizabethshaw · 3 years

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Not to post about Doom Coalition/Stranded again, but like. I am absolutely fascinated by the in-universe implications of the "theft" of the Red Lady artefacts?? I mean, if you go off what Helen's brother said in Absent Friends, it's the biggest theft of artefacts in the National Museum's history, and, seeing as Stranded is only set about 20 years later, it's likely that's still the case then. Then add in the fact that the lead suspect for the theft (Helen) literally disappeared without a trace within a few hours, none of the artefacts have ever been found, and that multiple people connected with the artefacts themselves died in mysterious circumstances? While it's probably not going to be something everyone knows about, it's still the biggest theft in the history of one of the UK's biggest museums, so it's got to be pretty well known as a Weird Unsolved Mystery, enough for there to be documentaries or youtube videos about it and stuff like that. Helen probably has a Wikipedia article. She probably has no idea. She doesn't even know what Wikipedia is.

Anyway I just think the concept of her, Eight and Liv watching TV while they're stuck in 2020 and getting completely blindsided by a documentary about this event they were all involved in is incredibly funny. (Bonus points if someone else in the house was also watching the documentary and the three of them have to spend the rest of the week trying to deflect questions about why Helen is being listed as a lead suspect for an art heist that took place 60 years ago because that was Definitely her on the TV and Does She Actually Know Where The Red Lady Artefacts Are)

#bethan listens to big finish #bethan talks about dw #helen sinclair #liv chenka #eighth doctor #would also find it very funny if this is how helen discovers wikipedia is a thing #like when she's helping robin with his history work or something #he brings up that he looked her up after the documentary became common knowledge in the house and that she has a wikipedia article #and she's just like 'a what'#and is then made aware that there's an encyclopedia accessible by anyone that lists her as an art thief #she makes a mental note to avoid the authorities as much as she can after that point

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