#atlastocrats in vacuo (anon discussion)

[bmblboop]

I find the dichotomy of the atlas elites interesting

On the one had character like the ace ops, Whitley, may and to a lesser extent cordovin prove that they can change, that many people will be better if given the chance

But the you’ve got people like Jacques, like ironwood, like madam, who up until their final breaths continue to be self serving evil pricks,

It all comes down to who’s example the rest of the atlas elites will,follow

My question is at Keats for the time they stay in vacuo they’ll play nice, but once they get a chance at power again, likely in mistral, they’ll go right back to their old ways,

The difference between the Ace-Ops/Whitley/Cordovin is that they may have held powerful positions, but they never held absolute power - which is something that Jacques, Ironwood and Madam had, and utilized to inflict suffering on others. The people who held absolute power never reflected on their actions, and never felt remorse for what they did or "had to do for the greater good".

Cordovin is interesting, because she kinda did have absolute power in the Argus branch, as the commanding officer there. She was, in a very meta perspective - a smaller version of Ironwood. She used her position in anger and in 'justified justice' against those who slighted her. However, when she was defeated, she was able to reflect and recognize that blaming RWBY+ would not save the city, they were not the real enemies, and that is what allowed her to change - seeing people she once viewed as 'below her' as equals. Her absolute power was stripped from her when her mech was immobilized, forcing her to confront her hubris and grow from it.

Harriet undergoes a similar arc, in which she is utilizing perceived 'ultimate power' from her orders to justify her actions, as well as a detached perspective on the situation to avoid grieving over Clover. She reflects on this when she is confronted by the fact that her coworkers are her friends, and she does care actually about them.

I think that's why I've been arguing in favor of the Atlesians as not all awful people, because there were very few people in Atlas more powerful than Ironwood or Jacques, and thus, few people likely to be as stubborn as them. I could be wrong, but I'm willing to bet that 90% of the kingdom's population and a solid 75% of Atlesians are willing to "play nice," in your words.

I'm sure there are still power hungry snobs out there, but they have no systems of power to use or exploit anymore, since Vacuo is noticeably devoid of them. Atlastocrats might still harbor Atlesian ideals, but that mentality will either be beaten out of them by the harshness of the refuge situation they are facing, or flee to Mistral, where they may take root again, as you speculate. (but idk how many can flee to mistral without taking an airship - which may not be cheap or readily available)

#ask bmblboop #rwby speculation #rwby v6 spoilers #rwby v8 spoilers #atlastocrats in vacuo (anon discussion)

[bmblboop]

I mean, I doubt the Faunus racism subplot will be addressed in vacuo, since as you said vacuo seems to be nearly racism free

And atlas, the most racist kingdom we’ve seen so far, is now gone, and the systems of power they used to opress faunus went with them, no more Faunus dying in mines or getting branded, and that’s all thanks to Salem, not ghirah

My biggest fear is that ghirah’s white fang will appear to help the refugees, this “proving themselves” to the racist humans, which would just reinforce the deeply flawed moral of the Faunus arc in volume 7,

The Faunus aren’t going to end systemic oppression just by “Being nice” to their oppressors,

Bro, I am on break at work rn and I’m tempted to delete this ask outright. Stop bringing up “Salem fixed Atlas”. That’s not what happened and I’m sick of trying to explain it.

As for your other points:

Racism isn’t non-existent in Vacuo, its implied that people give them a grudging respect for living in one of the most inhospitable places on Remnant. ‘We all got it tough enough already and I don’t want you to kick my ass’ is the operational principal. Racists probably still exist but they aren’t gonna be vocal about it to any degree that Atlas was, thus giving the impression of a less racist society, lol. The reason I brought it up is bc it seeeems to have a greater Faunus population than other kingdoms. And with all the refugees there now - they will have to confront that Atlesian bias toward Faunus.

Ghira’s white gang proving themselves trustworthy to racist humans by stopping ‘the bad faunus’ was a plot point in volume 5, not 7, and I will not debate the “is this bad representation actually” of it because I do not feel comfortable taking a side in a racism issue when I have not fought racism myself. This is not an invitation for you to tell me the Faunus arc was bad so plz don’t start.

(I thought the background grandma (mother of shovel lady) in Mantle getting a reality check from the helpful Faunus in the crater was fine actually - oh, bring out the tar and feathers!)

The fact of the matter is racists get their bigoted ideas from their culture, media, and a lack of meaningful interactions with people of other races - allowing them to fall back on their prejudices and justify their thoughts and actions. People learn how to check their words and privilege and learn to be less racist by interacting with people who they previously held irrational fear over. One good deed might be all someone needs to change their perspective and question their biases. (Is it too simple? Maybe, but RWBY isn’t about every method of dispelling racism, and certainly doesn’t have the time for showcase explicit examples).

—

Racism and resolving explicit racism is complicated. No single action is going to fix everything, no approach is going to work for every close-minded individual. So to reiterate Blake from Volume 5:

You have to understand that you are looking for simple answers to a very complicated problem. And I can’t give that to you. I don’t know how to make hate go away. I don’t.

I don’t know how the Faunus are going to reach true equality - and the characters don’t either. It’s a series of small steps with the hope of inspiring greater motions from the people it reaches.

#ask bmblboop #in-show meta #rwby fndm talk #rwby v8 spoilers #atlastocrats in vacuo (anon discussion)

[bmblboop]

I still hope the gang in vacuo don’t waste too much time trying to save the atkasmoristicrats

If they’re willing to change their ways and be better like may and Whitley? Good on them, they can tag along

But you just know a LOT of them are just gonna complain about not owning slaves anymore,

And the ones like madam? And Jacques? Leave em,

The general rule should be “shut the ruck up and stop being racist/classist or get left behind”

"Atlastocrats": a portmanteau of Atlas/Aristocrats. I like it, I'm gonna use it from now on.

Of course the people offering help are going to offer it to all of the needy, people of Mantle and Atlas alike. I'm sure those that don't want to accept change will turn up their nose at being helped by these 'lowlifes', who will then take their assistance elsewhere.

Are you familiar with the Aesops fable of the Lion and the Mouse? In short, a Lion catches a mouse but spares it when it begs for its life and to return the favor one day. The lion scoffs at the idea, but obliges. Some time later, the Lion is caught in a hunter's net and the mouse chews the ropes to free it. The mouse says to the lion, 'see? I promised I would return the favor.'

Now clearly the moral is about treating those 'below you' with respect and they will help you in return. Obviously, not every Atlesian "lion" has spared a Mantle "mouse", but the logic still stands - the lion would not have been saved if not for that mouse. That 'humbling of the lion' is the important lesson that the Atlastocrats now have to face. The lion that had refused to concede to the mouse would not survive, ie. Atlesians that still refuse to accept their circumstances and reject help will not receive help, and thus suffer.

This show doesn't coddle the undeserving - we never got a "Cardin redemption arc" to show how he makes up for all his shitty behavior toward Jaune and the people he bullied. The same should hold true here; leave the bullies behind and unrecognized. Let them resolve their issues or die in their unchanging mindset (like goatman).

My assumption is that by the time we see Vacuo (again, assuming some time has passed in Remnant by the time RWBY returns) you won't be able to tell the former Mantle citizens from the former Atlas citizens. Because the rich pricks have to adapt quickly if they want to survive in a *gasp* diverse community of impoverished people!

--

Side note, I'm not sure how common it was for Atlesians to own slaves? We know from the DC comic that the SDC technically did, and Madame DEFINTLEY did, but it doesn't seem to be outwardly common, for obvious ethical reasons. I prefer to think Atlas folks were more ignorant than actively malicious toward others.

#ask bmblboop #out of show meta #rwby speculation #rwby atlas #atlastocrats in vacuo (anon discussion) #they aren't going to show us the Atlesian's 'getting what they deserve' by being stranded in the desert to starve bc they lost thier home t

[bmblboop]

You mention how the people of atlas and mantle will need to work together, but will they?

Do the people of mantle really need people like Henry marigold or trophy wife?

When I talk about “atlesians” I’m more referring to the atlas elites, the kinds of people to attend Jacques’ party’s,

I don’t think they shouldn’t just be able to “move on” from what they did

Same with all the military higher ups who followed ironwoods plan without bothering to challenge him,

I think they should be held accountable, and I don’t consider atlas falling to be them being “held accountable” I view that as an unrelated foreign invasion,

To be courteous to the Military higher ups, challenging Ironwood was consistently met with the death sentence after Volume 7 (Oscar, Sleet, Marrow, and even his own right-hand commander - Winter). There are several scenes in Volume 8 where you can see Atlas soldiers scared shitless around him. When you work for a dictator who's made it clear he doesn't value human life, you tend to bite your tongue no matter how much you disagree with his actions.

I'm saying that Mantle and high-brow former-rich jerk-Atlesians have to work together because they have no other choice.

The other issue with wanting rich-jerk Atlesians to be held accountable is that Vacuo doesn't appear to have any rigid governmental structure, aside from Shade Academy. Mantle citizens might enact vigilante justice against their oppressors, and may not even face typical repercussions for it, because of the aforementioned lack of rigid government systems in Vacuo. If its turns into a Civil War over the ideals of a kingdom that no longer exists, do you think that would be satisfactory enough repercussions for Atlas' crimes?

I've said before - I am positive that tensions are not disappearing anytime soon. But the main faces - the main causes - of Atlas' oppression, Ironwood and Jacques Schnee, are no longer around.

#Atlas did many horrible things - but there isn't a clear way to hold them accountable #because while Atlas still flew - it was controlled by someone who was responsible for several horrid things and wouldn't change it #and now that it's gone - who has authority to hold them accountable? #rwby speculation #ask bmblboop #in-show meta #rwby v8 spoilers #my posts #rwby atlas #rwby vacuo #atlastocrats in vacuo (anon discussion)