#arthur vs eddie nonnie

[ajokeformur-ray]

do u think eddie is like arthur? 🤔 means if i wrote a fic about one of them in a situation without context and left out the names would they be interchangable/would it be the same fic? or would both fics be clearly identifyable as two very different character? genuinely wondering abt it

Ooooh, nonnie!!!!😍😍😍

I've wondered the same thing a few times; they definitely have core similarities. They've both had horrific lives (both canonically abused in childhood, both misunderstood, both of them face societal challenges and are outcasts, both of them struggled hugely academically (though with Eddie I'd argue this is because he has a raging case of undiagnosed ADHD, because we see how intelligent he is musically, with his D&D campaigns, how emotionally intelligent and intuitive he is, etc., whereas with Arthur this is likely due to undiagnosed learning difficulties such as dyslexia), etc.), both live in poverty, both stole the hearts of (almost) everyone who met them, and they both deserved much, much better.

However, a huge difference I can immediately see between Arthur and Eddie is that, through it all, Eddie stays Eddie. He shouts, he swears, he calls it stupid, his face crumbles and he's always .5 seconds away from tears and he's legitimately terrified of what's to come. The others have faced the Upside Down before but Eddie never ever has, and his loyalty and protectiveness of his lost sheepies and the love he feels for Wayne and his friends and Hellfire is ultimately at the core of what he goes through; he keeps going for them. He's always kind, so kind, and what you see with Eddie is what you get. He doesn't hide in himself once he makes that decision to stick by the group, and he's the softest, purest, most gentlest man in all of Hawkins.

Arthur, though... he tries so so hard, he does, but he's already doomed from the second we meet him. His story is already well under way and the descent into Joker was inevitable even before the film starts. Eddie made choices again and again and again, whereas Arthur's path was already clear cut. He didn't have a choice or a chance and it's heart-breaking, but that's where I see a major difference between Eddie and Arthur which, despite all of their similarities, makes them totally different people and you would be able to tell in a fic if you only changed their names and appearance details (at least, as someone who knows both characters well; someone who doesn't know either or both characters may not be able to tell). Eddie's narrative gave him choices, gave him chances, and he chose to join the others and to fight Vecna. It was stupid of him, he should have run, but he made that choice. Eddie's whole arc is about facing one's problems and kindness and empathy and not vilifying people who are different.

Arthur's arc is also about kindness and empathy, but here's that difference within the similarity: Arthur's choices had already been taken from him; he was always going to become what he ultimately did (which is himself; he took the mask off by putting on facepaint). And that's another difference. Eddie owns who he is, he's proud of it, whereas Arthur lies, hides himself until his mental illnesses get to a point where he can't and he becomes cold, broken-hearted Joker (to quote Todd Phillips).

So, to finish a ramble, yeah, I think you'd be able to tell if you just changed names and appearances. Situations and circumstances and timescale are similar (Eddie, Indiana, 1986; Arthur, Gotham, 1985), but there are huge differences even inside their similarities and it causes huge consequences for the both of them which are equally as devastating (we don't talk about episode nine in this house; I've never seen it because I absolutely refuse to. I'm not emotionally equipped to handle it).

Arthur gives in. Eddie goes down loud and proud.

I hope this answered your question!!!! I wrote this while drinking my first coffee of the day but I do have a lot of thoughts about these two characters and if you want to discuss this further or ask more questions then please do!!!💗

#eddie munson #arthur fleck #stranger things #joker 2019 #arthur vs eddie nonnie

[ajokeformur-ray]

arthur vs eddie anon here. i am happy you like my thoughts hihi

though the eddie thoughts i mostly have from another eddie blog who has great meta for chrissie as well but i added the arthur thoughts and my own though i dont feel comfortable taking credit for the eddie side, so i wouldnt go so far and call myself galaxy brain. maybe a sun system brain haha

though here more thoughts, this time all my own: go back one generation and look at penny vs wayne. both having it hard raising an abused/traumatised kid alone while being poor, working shifts - but we see arthur gives up everything of space, his bed, all for penny. but wayne gives up the only room and the only real bed for eddie and sleeps on a fold out bed in the living-room. eddie has space to grow and find himself, his own person. arthur was suffocated from the start.

and even when the killings happen we see the contrast: arthur killed the three men and penny doesnt know hes the killer but immediately judges the killer and thus arthur. when chrissy is found dead in the munson trailer and everything points at eddie being the killer wayne knows right away eddie is innocent. -> penny doesnt know arthur enough to tell he did it while nothing points at him. wayne knows eddie so well he immediately knows eddie is not the killer even though everything points that he is.

regarding what you said about choices: penny was the one never giving arthur the choice while wayne was the one enabling eddies choices

and one other thing for the big differences. arthus is a wolf in a sheeps coat and eddie is the sheep in a wolfs coat. i found that metaphor fitting for eddie because he keeps talking about lost little sheep

thank u for listening to my little ramblings <3

I adore your thoughts!!! I was worried I'd disappointed you with my lacklustre responses but holy shit I'm just... almost excited?? No, I am excited to be discussing these characters and their differences with you! I'd always thought they had a lot of similarities and differences but I hadn't taken the time to sit down and think about it and hhhhhh this is some good food!!!😍💗

A sun system brain for SURE! There's so much good meta out there about Eddie (and all the other ST characters of course, but he gets a special mention since he's the topic of conversation) and over the years I've read some amazing Arthur takes, too!

YES YES YES omgggg ~ I agree so hard!!! Arthur gave Penny everything and for what??? He's a natural caretaker but I have to wonder how much of that is his caring nature as part of his personality, and how much of it was because he was groomed from a young age to be the man of the house (the whole pseudo-husband thing still turns my stomach🤢). Penny kept Arthur stuck in that apartment; he's a high school dropout from fifteen (I think that's tenth grade? I'm not familiar with the US education system) and clearly had to work any job he could get to support the two of them. I also wonder how dependent she actually had to be on him because he's gone long hours, working 59 - 60 hour weeks and so Penny would have been left all on her for all that time but she's usually comfy and cosy when he comes home so she must be able to do things herself. She's a victim too and what happened to her in relation to Wayne and then further on in her arc is all heart-breaking, but I wonder about the reality of it a lot. Arthur was suffocated by the woman who was meant to take good care of him and raise him (not to mention how she ended up being allowed to keep Arthur by the social work side of things given how the paperwork shows she was lobotomised and needed medications etc. etc. is sketchy as fuck too).

Whereas Wayne did everything the right way - he chose to take Eddie in, he gave him space and clearly encouraged heavily everything Eddie wanted; I have no doubt that he pulled extra shifts to make sure Eddie could afford patches, materials for his clothes and posters and the Corroded Coffin flag, to make sure Eddie could eat, and I would put real money on Wayne being the one who bought Eddie the van, too! Wayne gave everything up for his boy, his boy, and was a real parent to Eddie. Eddie flourished and thrived under Wayne's care, and indeed was protected by him a great deal. Their dynamic is one of my favourites and I write about it quite often over on my Eddie blog.

Wayne knew Eddie; trusted his boy, knew him better than anyone else in Hawkins (except Hellfire, but Hellfire didn't live with Eddie and Wayne did, so Wayne saw more of Eddie than anyone else), and defended Eddie time and again from the entire fucking town. Penny either wouldn't or couldn't defend Arthur; it's implied she's at least complicit in the abuse he suffered at the hands of her boyfriend at the time when Arthur was a child, whereas Wayne was probably the one who took Eddie in to protect him from the parental abuse he suffered (this was confirmed by Joel, the actor who played Wayne, in a recent interview which I can send you the GIFsets to if you're interested) and did everything he could to give Eddie a better life even though he was also struggling in Hawkins.

The contrast is just... heartbreaking, honestly. Can you imagine if Arthur had been taken in by someone like Wayne?😭

YOU'RE SO SO RIGHT ON THE WOLF IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING THING OMLLLL😍😍😍😍😍

Thank you thank you thank you thank you for sharing your thoughts with me oml I am having so much fun talking about two of my three loves!!! These two characters are so interesting and multi-layered and I'm thriving hhhhhh💗💗💗💗 also peep at your tag so you can find again if you want to!

#arthur vs eddie nonnie #arthur fleck #joker 2019 #eddie munson #stranger things

[ajokeformur-ray]

not disappointed, no <3 i'm happy to talk abt this things.

ur so right with everything, good to know i'm not alone with this sentiment. and i didnt know u have another blog for eddie, ive not been following u for long but u seem very kind and i felt safe to start talking w u. theres not many people who want to discuss eddie vs arthur, the fandoms dont overlap much.

the wolf and sheep is a quote from the eddie blog too i mentioned. i found her right after volume 1 and i can spend hours on her blog like a cosy starbucks cafe, but im scared to tag her (ive lots of anxiety, id love to un-anon myself but that would give me panic attacks for miles and i didnt want to come off creepy for fangirling for u and her haha). i really love hearing ur thoughts and i'm happy i have my own little anon tag here <3

and i would love to see the gifs from the joel interview if u would share them?

I'm so happy I haven't and didn't disappoint you oml I was sat here going "have I made them not want to talk to me because I don't have much to say? Have I disappointed them? Did I say something wrong?" and that's not YOU, that's just me overthinking and breaking my own heart hasdfghjk I'm so ecstatic to be discussing two of my favourites with you!

My Eddie blog is my baby, and I'm over at @ghosttownwherenoonegoes 💗💗💗💗I'm so happy that you felt safe to start talking with me, that really means a lot to me!😭I know I'm not as active on this blog as I am on my other three, but that doesn't mean I'm not still here. That's true, the fandoms don't overlap that much, but I'm always here or over on my ghosttown blog if you ever wanna discuss Eddie things!!! And you now have your anon tag so you can find your asks!!!

Ooooh her blog sounds lovely!!! I'm probably following her (though don't worry, I don't even suspect who you're talking about!) It's so sweet that you spend a lot of time on her blog and I'm sure she'd be honoured! Don't un-anon yourself if you don't want to, honey! Take your time and do things for you; the anon is there for people like you, people who feel safer there, so it's okay! You wouldn't come off as creepy but I totally understand hasdfghjkl thank you for letting me share my thoughts and thank YOU for sharing yours!!! Sun-system mind!!!💗💗💗

Okay so these two posts really really set up the Wayne and Eddie dynamic I and many others write about:

Here's a video where Joel discusses the fact that Eddie was abused as a kid by his parents (only a few minutes long!)

Here's a GIFset of Joel discussing Wayne and how he came to Hawkins

#arthur vs eddie nonnie

[ajokeformur-ray]

Arthur vs Eddie anon I am obsessed and wanna hear anything else you got, if you're comfy sharing oml the parallels and stark differences asdfghjkl 😍🔥

#your MIND omlllll #i feel like that 'let me in' meme #arthur vs eddie nonnie

[ajokeformur-ray]

hello. arthur vs eddie nonnie back w more thoughts. i actually ask because their context are so simiar and their personalities are soooooo different in my opinion.

i agree with what you said about their motives though my question was more personality-wise.

i think while the empathy/kindness in arthus arc is about how society should have empathy for others so they dont end up like poor arthur, the empathy/kindness in eddies arc is about how eddie chooses empathy/kindness despite it not being given to him by society which makes a very big difference.

and their traits too. eddie is a goofball whos actually funny and charismatic and charming whereas arthur is off and weird in a creepy uncanny way (so sorry if this sounds like slander it truly isnt supposed to be; im not an arthur anti and i hope i dont come off rude here, my mother tongue is swedish), and arthur is a lost sheep while eddie is a leader. i feel like eddie is the person arthur would have needed growing up while arthur is a person eddie would have taken under his wing right away. eddie is someone who stands up for others and arthur is someone who cant stand up for others and needs someone to stand up for him, that person becomes he himself in the end.

eddie is very empathetic and sensitive to others reactions, easily reads and understands others and goes out of his way to make them feel comfy and safe around him like in the scene with chrissie while arthur is the exact opposite (not because he has ill intent) and has no idea about social cues and the feelings of others because his mother never taught him empathy (empathy is what you have, kindness is a choice they say and he very much tries to choose kindness which makes it ever more tragic and sadening to see it be in vain in the end).

i asked because i feel they are polar opposites of a character with similar roots (as u said both poor, childhood abuse of some kind tho eddies abuse must have been "less" in regards of consequence since he didnt seem deeply traumatized which sounds insensitive but i hope u know what i mean, both outcasts struggling with school). i think they are very different personality-wise, dont have much in common in traits but eddie would have been able to help arthur u know? in ur words, eddie could have helped arthur have a choice in the first place

thank you for talking about this with me! i hope you enjoy your coffee <3

Hhhh woops nonnie omg I'm so sorry hasdfghjkl you're so right, they definitely have very similar contexts but you're right, their personalities are EXTREMELY different. I did touch on that a little but trying to write about it while waking up was not the best idea.😂😂😂

I totally agree with absolutely EVERYTHING you said here, you have a very strong grasp of their characterisations. You don't come across as rude at all, I completely get and understand what you're saying!!! Eddie chooses to be kind even with everything he went through, he wants to be better than all the people who hurt him, and I agree!! I think if Arthur & Eddie had been in the same universe, Eddie would have taken Arthur under his wing and given him a place to go. Arthur does choose to be kind, as you say, but in the end, it was always going to end as it did.

I feel like Eddie is a tale of the power of kindness and in choosing to be different (choosing kindness etc.) whereas with Arthur, it's a cautionary tale of what COULD happen if one isn't kind, etc.

Eddie absolutely would have helped Arthur, and Arthur would have been able to grow and flourish and heal. Though, I would hope he still felt safe enough to become Joker in the sense that Joker is just Arthur taking off the mask, but in much more positive and healthy circumstances. Eddie would have 100% encouraged that!

I'm sorry I don't have much more to say in this answer, I'm just... I totally agree with everything you've said. They are total polar opposites despite the contextual similarities and that seems really important to me as well - like, Eddie made the healthiest choices he could in the circumstances (he did the best he could with what he had), and he had a father figure to raise him well and protect him, whereas Arthur was all on his own, doomed from the beginning, and never had a chance.💔

YOU HAVE A GALAXY MIND hasdfghjk sorry to gush but hhhhhh I feel all giddy reading your thoughts🥺🥺🥺🥺

#arthur fleck #eddie munson #stranger things #joker 2019 #arthur vs eddie nonnie