#also been sitting on this potentially being based around her fighting the villian for my fan part...

[goatpaste]

i'm curious, what's ur take on sadao? i thought it was really cool to see him in holly's backstory and he seems very nice!!! i know some ppl interpret him to have been an absent husband/father considering he isn't around in sdc but i feel like holly's family would kick his ass if he wasn't there for her. you mentioned they possibly divorced by the time of ur fan part so im just wondering, what do u think?

So yes its! A bit of a mix bag for me

On one hand when i first started jojos I defiantly leaned into absent father sadao who defiantly doesn't seem to be around for holly or jotaro. And I still think this is true. It's more or less true that due to his career he doesn't get to be around much. I don't think it's out of cruelty or purposeful neglect. But none the less he isn't around much and it does effect his relationship with his wife and son.

As iv been around others and found my own interpretation of sadao iv grown a soft spot for him.

So basically I imagine in my young teen years holly where her and sadao first meet in Italy their very friendly and get along great! He cares about her and they have a lil teen crush on one another. Going as fad as holly awkwardly giving him her ring of "marriage" token to him but never fully explains it and is too embarrassed to every let it be brought up again.

After the events of hollys Italian summer, holly and sadao would not meet for nearly 8-10 years. Holly would grow up, move out of the house and travel the world to try and find herself. Sadao would find himself moving up in his musical career and traveling the world. Holly and sadao would cross paths but never notice each other. But the one time sadao finally notices holly he can't let her go again. He's held onto that ring of hers and hasn't stopped thinking about the girl with the horns who risked her life to save then all those years ago in Italy. So he gets her attention and reminds her of who he is. They reconnect and begin dating.

The two get along great again, their best friends and she love getting to follow him and travel the world along side him as his career grows.

Then they have jotaro. Holly and sadao stay home. Living on his family estate with their money for awhile taking care of jotaro.

But then I imagine things just kinda. Change. Sadao struggles to be a father and doesn't handle it well, returning to his career and begins to tour around. He's home less and holly ends up staying home with jotaro. It's rocky, but she loves sadao and their still friends. But things change, holly and sadao love each other, they love jotaro, ect ect. But their life structure changed and sadao didn't know how to change with it,, and holly once again couldn't find the words to speak up and say what she felt.

Jotaro would grow up nearly without a father, very close to his mother feeling she's basically the only parent he has and the only one who understands him.

So when jotaros long been gone from the house living his own life and having his kid and such. Holly still stays home and is alone. She doesn't want to travel the world like they used to, she just wants sadao to be by her side. She knows what she wants but could never ask him to give up his career for her. They simply realized too late they wanted to lead different lives and loving each other wasn't enough to make everything they wanted to work, work. So instead of asking sadao to stay with her, she let him go.

This is roughly what I have in mind. May or not tweak and change it and I sit on it more. And I think their relationship is complex, their friends and love each other and their divorce came from issues that holly has that she would come to terms with and tackle as character growth in my fan part, represented by the growth of her stand in its acts.

But she gets the divorce and a year or some later she's set everything up to move back home to her family in New York to help them out with all the changes and things their adjusting to in their lives.

And again this is what I have in mind if I go with the divorce angle. I think I lean to divorce because then her and jotaro and br matchy lol

Or if not divorce maybe in the process of splitting up but not official and this is just Holly's break from sadao to get out of Japan and find what she truly wants in life and learning to stand up for herself and such.

#also been sitting on this potentially being based around her fighting the villian for my fan part... #but knowing my ladies stand ability its just been figuring out what id like to do to for a final showdown between her and holly...

[chaos-of-the-abyss]

Here's my opinion if you're interested - I used to love Daenerys when I watched the show, up until season 4. I started reading the books then and I realized she was the villian. She went to cities with no idea how to rule, (mereen) and left those cities in poverty and fear of her and what she might do next, yet she claims to be a good queen. (In the books she tortured a slave girl/in the show she threatens people with violence if they disagree. "Ill burn you alive.") She's just as bad as Cersei

1. She went to cities with no idea how to rule

You make it sound as if she conquered Meereen solely so she could rule. She went to cities to free slaves, and in Meereen she decided to stay and be queen, both to learn how to rule and to prevent the slave masters from enslaving the freed slaves again. 

Dany turned away from them, to gaze out over the city once again. “My children need time to heal and learn. My dragons need time to grow and test their wings. And I need the same. I will not let this city go the way of Astapor. I will not let the harpy of Yunkai chain up those I’ve freed all over again.” She turned back to look at their faces. “I will not march.”

What was she supposed to do? You claim she’s wrong for wanting to rule Meereen when “she has no idea how to rule”. At face value, that’s a valid reason, but it’s not when you look at Daenerys’ situation. She has just freed the slaves in a city that’s economy is entirely dependent on slaves. 

If she leaves, the masters rise up again and enslave those freedmen. You might say she could have appointed someone else to rule. But who? The only people in Meereen that potentially have ruling experience are the Great Masters, who all owned slaves. If she appointed any one of them to rule, they would try to bring slavery back. She could appoint someone from her own court to avoid this, but none of them are equipped to handle ruling a city whose economic foundation has just been abolished.

Daenerys was working with limited options here. Staying and ruling was the best, and most responsible choice to make in her situation. That way, she won’t be leaving anyone untrustworthy or unequipped to rule Meereen. You could say that she’s not equipped to handle Meereen, either, but Daenerys plans to rule Westeros one day. It was smart of her to want to gain some ruling experience before she reaches that point. 

Also, Daenerys does have a pretty good idea of how to rule. She tries to rebuild Meereen’s economy, without slavery, and starts by creating irrigation systems, planting crops, and trading. She understands that the city must have a source of income, and an idea on how to establish that source of income. And she does all of these while having never received any formal training in how to rule.

“Not a hole. A ditch, to bring water from the river to the fields. We mean to plant beans. The beanfields must have water.”

Ser Barristan remained. “Our stores are ample for the moment,” he reminded her, “and Your Grace has planted beans and grapes and wheat. Your Dothraki have harried the slavers from the hills and struck the shackles from their slaves. They are planting too, and will be bringing their crops to Meereen to market. And you will have the friendship of Lhazar.”

2. Left those cities in poverty and fear of her and what she might do next

Oh yes, of course. Because Daenerys made the decision that she needed a vacation from all the drama unfolding in Meereen, jumped onto Drogon’s back, and went on an cruise to the Bahamas.

No, Daenerys made a move to protect Drogon and the people in the fighting pit. 

“Kill it,” Hizdahr zo Loraq shouted to the other spearmen. “Kill the beast!”

The spearmen were running too. Some were rushing toward the dragon, spears in hand. Others were rushing away, throwing down their weapons as they fled. The hero was jerking on the sand, the bright blood pouring from the ragged stump on his shoulder. […] As the other spears closed in, the dragon spat fire, bathing two men in black flame. His tail lashed sideways and caught the pitmaster creeping up beside him, breaking him in two. Another attacker stabbed at his eyes until the dragon caught him in his jaws and tore his belly out. 

Drogon’s presence in the dragonpit was causing pandemonium and violence. Some were trying to hurt him, and naturally, Drogon fought back. Do you honestly think this situation would have been diffused had Daenerys not flown away with Drogon? More people would have tried to kill him and Drogon would have retaliated, leading to more casualties. 

Meereen is not in poverty because Daenerys is a bad ruler. Meereen is in poverty because its economic foundation, slavery, has been abolished. When the ruler leaves with the city in such a precarious state, fear and chaos is natural. If you want to fault Daenerys for this “poverty and fear”, then you’d have to fault her abolishing of slavery in Meereen. And I would never fault anyone for abolishing a system that treats human beings as objects, Meereen, where slave soldiers are quite literally cheaper, and therfore seen of as having less value, than their own swords. Any economy that’s based on such an institution is disgusting and should be changed.

3. Yet she claims to be a good queen

When has Daenerys ever claimed to be a good queen? If anything, she starts thinking worse and worse of herself.

That morning she summoned her captains and commanders to the garden, rather than descending to the audience chamber. “Aegon the Conqueror brought fire and blood to Westeros, but afterward he gave them peace, prosperity, and justice. But all I have brought to Slaver’s Bay is death and ruin. I have been more khal than queen, smashing and plundering, then moving on.”

“You have brought freedom as well,” Missandei pointed out.

“Freedom to starve?” asked Dany sharply. “Freedom to die? Am I a dragon, or a harpy?” Am I mad? Do I have the taint?

If I look back, I am doomed. Dany told herself… but how could she not look back? I should have seen it coming. Was I so blind, or did I close my eyes willfully, so I would not have to see the price of power?

Bless me, Dany thought bitterly. Your city is gone to ash and bone, your people are dying all around you. I have no shelter for you, no medicine, no hope. Only stale bread and wormy meat, hard cheese, a little milk. Bless me, bless me.

4. In the books she tortured a slave girl

I don’t know what anti-Dany thread you’ve been reading instead of the books that you supposedly read, but I’m here to tell you the truth: It was not a slave girl she tortured. A soldier was murdered in a wineshop, and the suspects were the wineseller and his daughters. Naturally, Daenerys has them interrogated.

At first, she orders them questioned sweetly, but upon hearing that another murder has occurred, she orders them questioned sharply. Daenerys is running an investigation for murder(s), not randomly torturing a girl. There is a thing called context that antis are spectacular at forgetting.

Torture for information, especially during a murder investigation, is not considered an evil act in medieval society. The antis calling her “evil” or “mad” for this are hypocrites, considering no other character seems to be under such intense criticism for torturing for information. Even Jon has people tortured; why is he not suspected of being “a villain” because of it?

5. In the show she threatens people with violence if they disagree. “Ill burn you alive.”

“She threatens people with violence if they disagree”? Don’t you mean “she threatens people with violence if they’re her enemies”? Which is, you know, pretty natural in a medieval setting?

But ok, I’ll bite. Give me an instance that Daenerys threatens people with violence if they disagree with her and I’ll gladly discuss it.

6. She’s just as bad as Cersei

You mean Cersei Lannister? Cersei “I only love my brother because I see him as a reflection of me” Lannister? Cersei “it’s so unfair that I’m treated differently because I’m a woman so every other woman deserves to be mistreated” Lannister? Cersei “Hey Sansa the best way to deal with being married to Joffrey is to sit still and take it” Lannister? Cersei “Joff was strong, Tommen must be more like him but I punish Tommen if he shows any signs of resisting me” Lannister? Cersei “I raped Taena Merryweather” Lannister? Cersei “I had a girl less than a year old killed because she was Robert’s daughter by a prostitute” Lannister?

I have only one thing to say.

Lol.

#asoiaf #asoiaf meta #dany defense squad #daenerys defence squad #daenerys defense squad #daenerys targaryen #daenerys stormborn #asks