#also a great example of the 'you don't have to be Tolkien' phenomenon

[scribefindegil]

As much as I adore conlangs, I really like how the Imperial Radch books handle language. The book is entirely in English but you're constantly aware that you're reading a "translation," both of the Radchaai language Breq speaks as default, and also the various other languages she encounters. We don't hear the words but we hear her fretting about terms of address (the beloathed gendering on Nilt) and concepts that do or don't translate (Awn switching out of Radchaai when she needs a language where "citizen," "civilized," and "Radchaai person" aren't all the same word) and noting people's registers and accents. The snatches of lyrics we hear don't scan or rhyme--even, and this is what sells it to me, the real-world songs with English lyrics, which get the same "literal translation" style as everything else--because we aren't hearing the actual words, we're hearing Breq's understanding of what they mean. I think it's a cool way to acknowledge linguistic complexity and some of the difficulties of multilingual/multicultural communication, which of course becomes a larger theme when we get to the plot with the Presgar Translators.

#imperial radch #also a great example of the 'you don't have to be Tolkien' phenomenon #if you want to think about linguistic differences by building all the languages in your setting #and being able to explain what those differences are through actual texts in the language in question #that's AWESOME #but it's not the only way to do it #it's also interesting because of course this style only works in book form #everyone's speaking different languages but in a written account they're all 'translated' for you #but of course if it was a TV series they would all have to be speaking a language the audience understands #(or you *would* have to go wild with conlangs) #and i think that's really cool as well-- #how for a series where song is so central we don't actually hear any of the actual in-universe words or any of the music #it's all been filtered #and again you know this is happening but seeing the examples of how real songs--the shape hymns and 'L'homme Arme'--are presented #makes you a lot more viscerally aware of how limited your perspective is #it's good #ann leckie i love you

[benchowmein]

could you elaborate on your fantasy post? that type of thing has always pissed me off and ive struggled to articulate why, i would be interested to hear your opinion. no worries if not

It is a phenomenon you don't tend to see in other genres (and never in literary fiction) because readers of, say, crime fiction or historical romance are generally happy to read something that sounds up their street - there is a lot more focus on good crime writers and good romance writers than in fantasy. I use these examples because they're probably the three genres with the biggest influx of new material. A reader of crime fiction is likely to go 'oh, Dan Brown, I like his stuff, I'll read this,' whereas a reader of fantasy, unfortunately, often goes for premises over writing style/quality.

I think some of this comes down to fantasy being a popular genre for children's and YA literature. I'm not trying to sound disparaging here as I have an obvious love for the genre (I research Tolkien full time!!) but it seems readers prefer a strong premise to skillful prose. A LOT of fantasy is just genre fiction in a secondary world (the Discworld books are great examples of this: functionally how is Guards! Guards! fantasy, aside from the dragons*?) and thus I think a lot of younger readers like fantasy because it feels like safe territory. The tropes of secondary worlds and high fantasy are known to the reader and they are comfortable engaging with them in a way they might not be with, say, crime fiction. I can't say exactly why this leads to the phenomena of 'give me a book with the exact premise I want to read but can't be bothered to write', but it definitely FEELS like how I would go into a bookshop as an eight year old and be told 'its vampire pirates' or 'its about a boy who is learning how to hunt monsters', whereas if you ask someone who reads literary fiction why they liked a book they will rarely say something so basic as a plot synopsis. Again, I hate to sound disparaging but at the same time I don't want to justify the weird anti-intellectualism that lots of fantasy readers have where they just want to read a story where good and evil are black and white (but not in that order). Read hard books basically

Also the way publishing is becoming more like...selling a book by the primary trope it uses...the 'oh its enemies to lovers but in a bookshop!' 'oh its science partners but they are fake dating!' phenomenon I genuinely believe is kind of ruining the way people engage with books.* Imagine saying 'its about a girl who kisses a guy and then has to hide it!' about A Room with a View or 'its a ghostcore Black history book!' about Beloved. Really good books, obviously, sound awful when you describe it like this, so why do fantasy readers love to do it? Because they value premise over prose!

Basically beyond anything I've said I think it totally devalues the experience of writing. If you hone your craft your whole life and people still only care about your book because of the premise you should be able to hunt them dangerous game style. Imagine valuing a book on whether it fits your frankly arduous criterion rather than by the author's ability to bring to life even the most awkward premise.

*It is fantasy, I'm not saying it isn't, but it must be said that the synopsis is 'hardened detective and new recruit go on a city-wide romp to figure out why dragons are popping up over town'

*HOWEVER my idea for a crap book series set in a law firm where the characters are reincarnations of King Arthur's court with Guinevere as his shy secretary called Courtly Love is the best idea anyone has ever had.