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#about:gondor
eohere · 2 years
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I am thinking about Theodred and his incredibly complex relationship with Gondor. I am thinking about him as Prince of the house of Eorl, grandson of Thengel, growing up in a house that speaks Sindarin, a language his grandfather learned in a country with citizens that discuss Rohan’s ‘love of war’ and laud themselves for influencing Rohirric culture towards ‘arts and gentleness’ whilst bemoaning their own society becoming too much like Rohan. 
I am thinking of Theodred, the son of the ‘lesser son of greater sires’, born and raised in Rohan and lovingly entrenched in that society, loyal to the rohirrim as both an earnest act of a Prince’s dedication AND a son’s little rebellion, who tries to live up to his uncle Eomund’s traditionalist expectations whilst also abiding by his father’s image of Thengel’s royal majesty, but never quite meeting either measure. 
I am thinking of Theodred weathering the frustrating society of his Grandmother and aunts, women who returned to Gondor as soon as their husband and father was dead, and yet loving them all the same and being loved by them. Loving to write as well, not just letters and stories but poetry too, in multiple modes, even in Sindarin, facts about himself that he purposefully hides from almost everyone who knows him. 
But a Theodred who also knows Gondor in a whole other world as well, the Gondor many of the faithful fear, that has become more alike to the Rohirrim, not just in an equal valuing of military defense as well as academia, but as less grim men as well. Theodred knows the Gondor of many languages, lineages and histories, the Gondor Boromir introduces him too, the one he loves and defends. It is a Gondor that he understands as anything but a monolith, perceiving it’s own history through a thousand different viewpoints, and one that at it’s base, genuinely and loyally, loves Rohan for it’s friendship and values their connection for it’s history and it’s present. 
It’s about!! Theodred, sat on the edges of a conversation in Lossarnach about ancient poetry written by Tar-Telperien and preserved within Pelargirian archives and having to pretend that he does not have things to contribute to that discussion, not out of shame, but out of some internal thing within him that says it would be disrespectful to his own people and their ‘ownership’ of him to openly display this personal channel to his heart. This sense that, when in Gondor, he must carry all of Rohan with him, that he must be even more a man of Rohan than usual, that he must make himself uncomfortable here to fulfil the demands of an archetype he has committed too all by himself. 
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abrazimir · 1 year
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The image that people have of Boromir is so curated, but all of them are true to his nature in one way or another, they are all a part of him. To Lords, courtiers and scribes and the servants of the Steward’s house, Boromir is noble, calm, busy and distant but always courteous and practiced with polite smiles, it is not expected to see him in society or debate much, but when they do he is appropriate but focused, all know and respect his priorities and understand that he is always working to their interest. Of course, he has his detractors, especially amongst the more academic and faithful quarters of the nobility, and he is a polarising figure when it comes to more complex matters of both religion and society, but his foundational reputation is well solidified. He is an unshakeable stone of a public figure, he might as well be a stone in Minas Tirith’s walls rather than a person for the position he occupies in people’s minds.
To the Solders who fight with him, he is theirs, their warden to touch and to touch them back, fundamentally entrenched with them and beside them, heaving them out of danger as many times as they do the same to him, the leader of their murmuration, guiding their movements as though they were all one shifting body and yet so much a part of them that it is hard to discern that the command came from him at all. EXCEPT when it isn’t, except in the moments when their morale shakes, when their strength falters, when they need him most and flock to the sight, sound, feeling of him amongst them. The horn winds and the shockwave of it’s effects ripple through them and their enemy both. To Soldiers, Boromir is achingly open to them, they know him as a body, they know his blood, his raw flesh and his hands by touch, everything but his fear or despair. Soldiers may know Boromir’s grit, his brace, his grief and suffering better than even his family, but they have never seen him lost or irresolute. 
To Boromir’s family, he is warm, often quiet and happy to simply exist within the lively conversations of others, but sometimes overbearing in opinion. He has a sense of what should be done, how things should be handled and expectations of people that can be high, especially for those eldest sons in other branches of the family. Still, it is not to the extent that he is an unwelcome presence in their gatherings and, whilst opinion of him varies greatly from relation to relation, all agree that he is loved and valued. He brings a reliable and restful quality to most moments, often only breaking his silence to say something that brings a laugh to everyone present, and has the effect of making his family want to divulge whatever is on their mind simply because he is there, quietly, willing to give his honest and reliable answer. He is the keeper of quite a few secrets and has never reacted dramatically to anything he is told. It is a remarkably similar position to Lothiriel’s reputation in the family, hence they often find themselves quietly sat together to begin their usual ponderous conversations. 
To Gondor’s populace at large, Boromir is simply a hero. No more or less and with just the expected amount of elevation coupled with dehumanisation, he is a figurehead in it’s entirety, trusted and loved, perceived as the masculine ideal by especially the younger generations. Boromir is touchable to them too, but only in an almost  beneficent way, his hand on their shoulder, his commiseration with their grief, his leadership of their communal struggle and defiance, he is both theirs and impossibly distant at the same time. 
But to Theodred, Boromir sleeps. He is soft, weary and regretful, he is an open wound of guilt for all the death left behind him. He is wanting, something so incredibly at odds with every other iteration of Boromir that Theodred finds it nigh on intoxicating, inspiring too. The Boromir Theodred knows wants to live. He does not say it still, would never be able to voice it when, even to himself, wanting feels utterly incongruent with the person he is and has always been, but somehow Theodred and Boromir understand it within one another. The man Theodred holds wants to live, most particularly wants Theodred to live and restrains a very bitter anger that he cannot. But whilst that is perpetually true, he is also just a man who loves, he is tactile even as his body aches, he is talkative in a low and thoughtless way, saying whatever little thing comes to his mind, he likes to press his nose as deep as he can into whatever soft portion of Theodred’s body he can find, they communicate in wordless noises most often and, sometimes, he sings for him.
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abrazimir · 3 years
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GOD I just remembered that canonically Gondorians use a version of westron with respectful and familiar pronouns and honourifics whilst the Hobbits do NOT and I need to find a way to somehow make up and integrate that into Boromir’s dialogue. Really do LOVE that, to Boromir, all the hobbits treat him like their best mate from day one, Pippin waltzes up to Denethor like BRO I am deeply effected by your son’s sacrifice bud :(
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abrazimir · 3 years
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IN GONDOR! It is not acceptable to speak with the dead. Culturally and practically, if you are speaking to the dead and they can hear you, then something has gone very wrong. There is something that is holding them there, perhaps it is you, perhaps if you try to call back to the dead then you will make a wraith out of them. Unacceptable, dangerous. It brings a lot of stigma. When people come to see where their loved ones are buried they must be silent, often wearing veils over their mouths. Poets speak about grief as, ‘I cover my lips and would cut out my tongue, for if I can have no words for you then they should be for no one else’. 
In fact it is more common for people to speak to the dead in insult, after grievous harm and bitter hatred. People will call to the dead who did great evil, to disturb them and try to tie them back here, deny them peace, make them witness their own villainy. 
Radical psychologists have a line of thought that this is detrimental as a practice. There is actually a known psychological phenomenon in Gondor, of people who miss their loved ones so dearly that they can’t help speaking to them in secret, but who feel such guilt for it that it brings all manner of harm to them. Debate surrounding the thought that it’s not possible for someone to create a wraith with just words alone was rising in prominence before the war started sixty years ago, but Ecthelion dismantled a great deal of the institutions for psychological help to fund the war effort and the hiring of mercenaries. After the war and during the painful grieving stage of Gondor, the discussion is begun once again. 
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abrazimir · 3 years
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Gondorians will feel genuine guilt if they make fun of the Anduin, if they haven’t seen the Anduin for a while it will feel like they haven’t called their mother, Gondorians will talk about the Anduin like a real actual person and casually talk to her conversationally. 
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abrazimir · 3 years
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I think it’s important to recognise that, as painful as a lot of things were for Boromir surrounding his queer identity, he did not have to be that careful with concealing it. In fact, the thing that kept his life so secret for so many years was that, if someone accused him of being ill-fated, it would likely be more damaging to the accuser than to Boromir. His reputation, his position and the respect he commanded from society (both earned and born into) were such that it simply was not worth anyone’s time or effort to tell people what they might have seen or heard, because how could you! The Warden of the White Tower? Boromir II? Our noble defender? The heir to the Stewardship? Why would you fabricate such things so scandalously! (Scandal being a thoroughly dishonourable thing in Gondor and eagerly avoided where possible.) So, despite the fact that quite a few people were generally aware of Boromir’s relationship with Theodred before, they were never much of a risk to him. This is a privilege that Boromir grew increasingly aware of as he grew older, as well as aware that very few other people possessed it. Which was something else that drove his general respect and championing of middle men causes and valiance. 
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abrazimir · 3 years
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HEADCANON; Boromir’s sexuality and community
Gondor society does not cope well with sexuality in any form, but such ‘errant’ sexualities as they believe there to be are viewed and treated with a kind of overbearing pity and medicalisation. They are called ‘ill-fated’, in that one’s marriage partner is considered part of their fate or destiny and so for one to willingly choose someone considered ‘unsuitable’, they must have some kind of doom or ill fortune placed upon them. Debates amongst the wise often discuss ‘cause’ and ‘prevention’ and ‘management’. There is also an inherent stigma that such people will ‘bring others down with them’ with their ill-fatedness.
All of this Boromir knew by the time he was 14, and by the time he was 16 he knew it applied to him. It hit him less as a quick panic and more as a slow dread, but by that time he was very accustomed to such a feeling and it was truly not the most pressing thing on his mind. He was already squiring for Hurin, the Captain-General at the time, and finally coming to grips with the war he’d known would be his arena from childhood. 
And if it had been up to him, he might have always considered his love for men an obstacle and a burden to be suppressed and ignored. But Boromir became reacquainted with a childhood friend once he entered the culture of the Military and, slowly, they began to realise perhaps they had much in common. Nembedir knew more of the atmosphere and groups in the Soldier’s Circle and most importantly the spaces for them all. Boromir allowed Nembadir to introduce him to the Mumak and Keep, with the excuse of ‘knowing is better than not’. That new community gave him so much, including satisfying answers to questions he didn’t even have to ask. 
It became a haven of his and it’s patrons came to mean safety too. Situated at the furthest southern end of the second tier of Minas Tirith and squirreled down a back alley, the Mumak and Keep had been a queer stronghold for decades. Few knew who he actually was, as he took the name Abrazimir and few knew him well by sight, but those who did kept his confidence. Boromir made some rash decisions as a young lad in the name of ‘getting command of himself’, but he had three real, affectionate if short relationships before he was 25. And amongst the folk of the Mumak and Keep his odd and slightly outdated manners and opinions earned him the fond nickname ‘auntie’. 
In the end, Boromir was able to form a complex web of thought connecting his cultural belief that love was fated and to be honoured, with his new understanding that that could be for a man too. And that those values could be maintained without celibacy, though that was a harder thing to accept. Still he did not believe that he would ever be able to act on any love he felt, which was a quiet mourning that he held to his chest as his love grew for Theodred. Eventually he decided that he was allowed this one reach for joy and understanding and companionship. 
After his death and Sauron’s defeat, Boromir’s name and the rumours of his life began to gain greater traction in such communities and it galvanised a new wave of discussion and demands, especially among the large minority of queer men who made up the ranks of the Military and whom had sacrificed so much for the sake of their people. 
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abrazimir · 3 years
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(thinks about book canon pelennor with it’s mass of pomegranate and citrus fruit farms) (thinks about film pelennor’s mile of wilted dead untilled unused grass) (cries)
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abrazimir · 3 years
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HC - Cair Andros as the centre of Anorien’s military and Boromir’s relationship with it
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Whilst Minas Tirith was certainly the main fortress within Eastern Gondor and was the preferable place of defense in a siege, it was also a complex city with a large populace, small exits and limited space. Hence, Cair Andros was in fact the basis for the majority of it’s standing troops. The whole river island is fortified down to it’s roots, eliminating erosion and creating a large enclosed strip of very fertile land that can support a sprawling barracks alongside a large civilian community. Soldiers can be quickly deployed all the way down the Anduin and so respond to situations far quicker than they might if they were garrisoned in Minas Tirith. It is even at a slightly cooler latitude than most of Gondor, allowing for greater variety of harvests. Cair Andros is, to all intents and purposes, self reliant. 
This creates a quite renowned insular community. Families on Cair Andros tend to have long lineages and cultural attachments both to the island and the military based there. The civilian communities and the armed forces work together to keep the island flourishing and there are a lot of unique shared traditions and etiquettes that link the two communities. There is also a Lord for the Island, taking petitions specifically from the civilian populace of Cair Andros and debating them with the Captain-General of the time, who is considered the ‘Lord of the Army’ in essentials. 
Hence, Boromir’s home base for the majority of his life, from the moment he became squire to Hurin of the Keys to the time of his death, has been Cair Andros. The rooms within it’s central keep are far more lived in than the quarters he holds in the Tower of Ecthelion and those of the island know him more personally than those in Minas Tirith might expect too. Theodred was also more often on Cair Andros than Minas Tirith and so there were quite a few people who lived on the island who were aware of Boromir and Theodred’s relationship. 
However, Cair Andros was the seat of a great deal of tragedy during the last year of the war with Sauron. Boromir left only a skeleton garrison to defend it when he besieged Osgiliath and a great many of those soldiers never returned. The populace had to be evacuated to Minas Tirith and then to Tumladen, but some refused to leave their homes entirely. And, eventually, Cair Andros was entirely overrun by orcs and any left within were driven out or slain. So, after the war, survivors returned to their homes ravaged and pillaged. The orphan population of the island sky rocketted, even above Minas Tirith’s count, and almost all remaining families had to take in an orphan or two. And, even then, some children with older teen siblings had to be taken care of by them because there were not enough families who could take them, a culturally distressing fact for most Gondorians.
So, when Boromir and Theodred come to live in Cair Andros after Boromir has ceded the sceptre, they are welcomed with some weary and difficult emotions. Boromir does not accept, Duneth’s (the surviving wife of Gligir the Lord of the Island) invitation to dwell in the Lord’s house, though he thanks her for the offer. Many homes are abandoned within the community and Theodred is already a capable farmer in his own right, a skillset very valued on the island now. So they settle into the day to day of the people there and help in the feeding of the populace. A while later they also welcome a teenage orphan, Pedir, and his little brother into their home as well, settling themselves solidly as committed members of Cair Andros’ people.
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abrazimir · 3 years
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HEADCANON; Earnur the gay War-Scholar
When Tolkien says ‘-delighting chiefly in arms-’ in Boromir’s description imagine it is not just a point of martial prowess. Remember Gondor as a philosopher and explorer nation that was turned martial under dire necessity with Earnur being one of the greatest warrior Kings of the world. Consider that military strategy, advancement and management within Gondor has been somewhat spotty, reliant upon what leaders are around at the time, and disparate in it’s dissemination. Because scholars were lauded for being scholars, not warriors alone, and rarely did writers have all the information necessary to make any kind of comprehensive work.
But Earnur changed that, imagine Earnur writing what is essentially Middle Earth’s ‘the art of war’. He took all his knowledge and combined it with the high tier of education he was given as a prince and all the access he had to knowledgeable people around him and ALL his experience to boot- Earnur’s work was FULLY comprehensive and birthed the a new institution and style of war-recording and established method and strategy for a millennia.
But!! That leaves everyone with a problem because this work was not only comprehensive, readable and thorough, it was the most homoerotic piece of literature for a millenia. Earnur spoke fondly, tenderly, lovingly of his companions, of heroic soldiers he had known, of great strategists that all should aspire too. He took the camaraderie of the military and wrote about it in exactly the same style as book!Frodo and Sam. And he was very clear that such honest and openhearted and thorough affection between men within an army was not only good, it was the IDEAL! Utterly scandalising the notably touch-averse Gondorian society.
Scholars after him did their best to mitigate all this. They copied the tome into shorter and more technical novels, but that made it dull to read and truer copies were in greater demand. They tried to write new books and indeed as ages turned there was a need to update methods of war, but they STILL had to cite Earnur’s work. They wrote many, many think pieces on Earnur’s intent to foster good, platonic friendship between men and made a great deal of all his female friends, insisting he would have married one eventually. But you cannot tamp down the ability of gays to see homoeroticism and these Scholars were far too late.
Not only is a gay textbook about fighting now nearly required reading for any and all Lords, the army within Gondor has a UNIQUELY high rate of gay soldiers, all of which tend to be the most well informed and have the most well thought out analysis/critisism of both Earnur’s texts and the texts that came after it. Because if you voraciously tear through a book that makes you feel warm and right and is a staple of your community, you KNOW you’re going to be able to recite that book verbatim AND have had the most indepth discussions about it. And then, whoops! You’ve got an interest.
This also means that a large proportion of the war-scholars who came after Earnur and who were inspired by him were ALSO queer! Meaning that war literature does have a higher probability of being like that. “Delighting chiefly in arms” ALSO became an innuendo.
HENCE. Earnur encouraged young gay men to enlist into their armies, creating both a touch stone of gay culture and yet also ensuring that gays died at a much higher proportion and bore the brunt of Gondor’s military actions AND were shuffled out of the way. So in fact even as they denied Earnur’s sexuality, I’d say there was also subtle encouragements by various different Steward regimes through the ages to continue this trend.
Which creates an INTENSE plot for post-war of the ring, hundreds of thousands of soldiers who’ve lost limbs, friends, livelihoods, mental health all return to civilian life in a Country that denies them veracity and calls them strange or ill-fated- not to mention all the cross-dressing lesbians or passionate trans men who also would’ve participated- imagine the ANGER and righteous hurt born by veterans, their demands that the new king bring in a new enlightened age and give them the respect they earned when the bodies of their people (Boromir’s reputation in particular being raised as an example of their martyrship and heroism, something much discussed within the community due to his noble status and complicity with his forefather’s legacies but still an undeniably important fixture) set the foundation for this victory and succession! Which is!! FUCKING COMPELLING MY DUDES!!!
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abrazimir · 3 years
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Once the Reunited Kingdom is established the Steward of Gondor (be they Faramir or others) does not become the Steward for the Reunited Kingdom. Another family is chosen from within the Arnorian Dunedain and they are the Steward for that region. Which means, in general, that if Aragorn’s line was to ever fail then the two Stewards would either; 
-   Agree on a new King from another line related to Aragorn and coronate him. -   Support two different people and eventually divide the countries back into two, coronating a different king for Arnor and Gondor.  -   One Steward supports one person to be king, the other supports no one, if all the Lords within that country concurr with their Steward then only one country gets a King, with the other returning to a Steward-based government with devolved powers. However the King of the other country can still petition for their right to that throne at any time.  -   Both stewards agree there is no viable King left and both countries devolve into their seperate states and are ruled by Stewards from then on. 
This was long winded and will effect literally no thread I will ever have but the POINT of it is... As Steward, Boromir can’t fucking stand the Steward of Arnor. Every time they meet up he’s just BARELY holding on to his temper, the man grinds his gears like no one else and it is ENTIRELY because he’s playing at the idea of being a Steward without any of the actual cultural background and manners and perspectives that the Steward’s line has held so sacred for so long. So it’s like trying to talk to someone who’s pretending to be your dad after never meeting him and only listening to a few people talk about him. He put immense effort in never having to meet him face to face for the good of all.
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abrazimir · 3 years
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HEADCANON; Gondor, children and ‘squireship’ practices 
Part of the way Gondor has in the past defined itself away from Rohan (and has been somewhat a point of self aggrandisement) is in it’s treatment and attitude towards children. 
Where Rohan often initiates their children into the demands of warfare and other harsh realities as young as twelve, Gondor has maintained a clear policy of shielding their young and considers their overall attitude to children an important mark of their honour and the nobility of their people. 
The rhetoric around children in Gondor is very much one of humanity, understanding and care. A lot of social weight is placed upon how one treats children and how they raise their own, emphasising a normalcy to high standards of parenting. There is also a concept of an ‘honour parent’ within Gondorian society, that is another adult in a child’s life that is socially accepted as a chosen third parent to them. Though this might be more of an informal personal decision, the position is considered very real socially and comes with real expectations, responsibilities and considerations from the community as a whole. 
With this in mind, the idea of a ‘Squire’ is very specific in the gondorian military. The practice is less an exclusive aspect of nobility, and far better described as an apprenticeship to command and captaincies. The concept being that commanding men requires different basic training than being a soldier does, so the military academies might not be able to provide it fully. 
So senior commanding officers in the military will be encouraged to take on a squire from the academy ranks, boys of usually above seventeen will apply for the chance and through a series of meetings and discussions and examinations each officer will choose a boy to take under his wing and eventually tutor towards becoming an officer themselves. However, seventeen is still considered young, students graduating from the Academy at nineteen usually, and so there is a very solemn responsibility placed upon the officers who do this. 
Indeed, to ensure the boys are properly and kindly protected and cared for, after the ceremony the officers are designated and considered their squire’s ‘honour parent’, with all the expectations that that brings. Fondness and genuine affection is expected within these relationships. This also has created a within-military concept of ‘command lineages’, teachings of ancient captains being passed down through their squires and their squire’s squires and so on. Some captains are known as ‘grandfathers’ and do generally play out that roll. Officers may also have more than one squire, though not at the same time, and this spawns jokes about families and such. 
Generally this has meant that Officers within the military not only have thoroughly robust relationships between each other, but also maintain a healthy culture of regulation and manners and respect for the soldiers who follow them. 
It should be noted, however, that during the end of the third age and with the increasing pressures of endless war, soldiers began to go to war younger and younger. Boromir’s squiredom at sixteen created quite an uproar of concern at the time, many judging this as yet more evidence of their descent from the High Men of old. 
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abrazimir · 3 years
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Canon things about Gondor;
- They have some kind of government sponsored healthcare (the houses of healing served all injured soldiers) and conduct medical research. - They bow to the west before eating and so likely do other faith-based rituals that involve the west and such. - They are an empire very solidly based around philosophy, science and artistry, only having recently turned martial due to necessity not choice. - They have underground aquaducts and managed sewage systems. - They invented the explosive powder Saruman uses at Helms Deep (a recipe stolen during one of his visits to Minas Tirith’s libraries)  - They have libraries and archives and transcribe books into multiple copies. - All folk of Gondor can read and write which means they must have school systems. - Despite being somewhat ‘feudal’ they have counsellors and politics and manners of debate and quite a complex system of government. - None of this was supported by a slave trade or serfdom.
What is the point of this? The point is Gondor has a lot of aspects that are equivalent to real world empires (none of which are white) but also some unique aspects too and I just want to write threads about..... wage disputes and standard curriculums and gondorian universities and such.
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abrazimir · 3 years
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Anyway um.. Gondor doesn’t need to carry and transport ice from the white mountains much, farmers long ago created special freezing wells with air flow designs that kept all warm air out and cold air in, connected to underground aqueducts from rivers and mountain streams. So in debilitating height of summer ice treats are fairly common fair. 
To be clear I thought of and researched this because Theodred spends time in Cair Andros and the heat would KILL him and the image of him spralled on a long seat on deaths door when Boromir presses an ice cold hand on the back of his neck to make him yelp then melt like he’s never been more relieved in his life is- GOOD! It’s very good. I think you’ll all agree. 
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abrazimir · 3 years
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HC: Gondor Literacy and Literature 
I’ve said before that canonically Gondor has a near universal literacy rate, hence there must be some kind of universal school system put in place. But with that needs to come concepts of how literature is dispersed throughout the country and how authorships work. So!
Large personal libraries are not the usual mode of Gondor. Even amongst the very wealthy, they either have no book stores or their libraries are public suppositories for academics. The only secret libraries are the Steward’s domain, containing delicate information, correspondence or blueprints for banned projects. There are printing presses in Gondor but the resources needed to mass produce books is costly and such large productions are not only expensive, they also require governmental approval. A body must agree that a work is of enough cultural/scientific significance to be worth the resources necessary to run the presses. 
Hence the most usual ways for books to be read are at public reading rooms (of which there are many all across Gondor) or recited in small gatherings (both professionally and simply by friends whom have a copy or have memorised all or some of the text, a quite common skill for Gondor.) 
Of course people do own books, but not usually very many. Either they will have had a family member that wrote a book and they have the original copy, or perhaps they like a book so much that they copy it themselves to keep. (Another very common way to pass the time in Gondor.)
AND IN FACT! One of the major continuous projects and milestones in a child’s school life is copying a book of their choice. The process is long and structured as one of the major ways that children are taught to read and write in Gondor. They are encouraged to decorate it and artistic techniques and geometric pattern-making are also developed as skills through the process. At the end of a child’s initial schooling, when they are about 13, they will have finished their first copy and such first copies are the largest percentage of family-owned books across the country. After that stage of school, children who feel they wish to pursue a career in historical or political spheres then choose a book in Sindarin to copy as well, running alongside their formal teaching of the language (though children generally have a grasp on some fundementals of sindarin by the time they reach that age.)
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abrazimir · 3 years
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I cannot!! Emphasise!! Enough!!! How important the Anduin is to Gondor’s everyday life!!! And how universal the cultural symbol of rivers is country wide!!! Gondor is a nation mothered by rivers and in thrilled competition with the sea!!! The Anduin is to Gondorians what Mother Mary is to Catholics!!
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