#I am just HOPING the dialogue in the finale is sufficient enough to justify all of this nonsense

[missezramay]

I swear rinas only care about how EJ "isn't the one for gina" and argue with their facts ... but those facts also apply to Ricky too?? Let's for a minute entertain the reasons they claim portwell doesn't work.

EJ is older than Gina. Okay. But so is Ricky. I swear rinas are all pre-teens the way they act like a two-year age gap is god forbidden. I'd like them all to ask their parents what their age gaps are.

EJ is moving on from high school while Gina is still there. Okay. But so will Ricky. Gina is the youngest of the group, so they will ALL graduate high school before she does.

EJ can't prioritize Gina. Okay. So we're just gonna conveniently pretend like Gina isn't Ricky's third choice. I think this is why Gina's "maybe" line doesn't sit right with me. She was never a "maybe" for EJ. She is, however, a "maybe" for Ricky. Maybe Ricky will finally see Gina with Nini out of the picture. Maybe Ricky will consider Gina after his rebound with Lily. Everything EJ has done in season 3 is to prioritize his future with Gina, and it's so disheartening that both Gina and rinas don't see that but they have so much praise for Ricky for "being there" for her when EJ wasn't because he was overwhelmed with trying to make the show perfect because a perfect show translates to a future with Gina.

Hi Anon!!

Can I thank you for filling my inbox with STRAIGHT FACTS?!

These are very strong, very valid points and it's clear that some of y'all just want to ignore them in favor of what you want.

This is also further clarified to me that EJ is really getting the short end of the stick. I would love to say Portwell have made equal mistakes, but if I put my critical thinking cap on, I have to say that there were more moments I was disappointed in Gina over the season. I know she's young and she wants her perfect summer, but between her attitude in 3x05 and changing her mind every 2 seconds ('let's focus on right now!' 'I was trying to pursue a future with you!'), the girl has me frustrated!

#I am just HOPING the dialogue in the finale is sufficient enough to justify all of this nonsense #the problem is they are perfect together and the writers used their last brain cells for the drama #portwell #my bbs I believe in you #hsmtmts #text post

[alpha-centari27]

The Thoughts and Reflections of Someone New to Reylo and the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy

This is a really, really long post and contains spoilers.

Please be polite and respectful if you choose to comment and / or reblog.

Ok, so before I get too heavy discussing my thoughts and reflections there are a few things I want to make absolutely clear.

- People can ship whoever they want.  And it is perfectly fine for people to disagree and have differing tastes and opinions.  Obviously some ships are better supported by canon than others.  And there are shipping relationships that are toxic, but people ship it anyway.  I think a great non-Star Wars example is Harley Quinn and Joker. 

- I have delved deep enough into the reylo tag and other related tags to get the sense that anti-reylo are claiming a moral high ground.  “As a ship reylo is wrong and therefore anyone who ships reylo is a horrible person.”  And my simple rebuttal to this is--no, that’s not how this works.  If someone ships reylo this by itself is not sufficient evidence that someone is a horrible person.

- Based on everything I have read about TROS Ben Solo’s story arc and character development could have been so much more than what it was on screen in TROS.

- Having said that a lot of other characters were short changed by whoever was pulling the strings and making the decisions: Rose Tico, Poe Dameron, Finn and Rey and arguably Leia, Luke and Han were short changed by some of the decisions made in TROS and earlier in TLJ and TFA.

- Being part of a fandom should be fun, so can we all agree to chill out, relax and be civil?

Moving on...now that hopefully I have cleared up any preconceived assumptions.

I am relatively new to reylo and the sequel trilogies.

The first time I watched The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi was only a few weeks ago.  Some of the cable channels have been doing Star Wars marathons to get people pumped and nostalgic to pay for a movie ticket to The Rise of Skywalker.

One of the cable channels was doing yet another Star Wars marathon last night, so I again sat down to watch The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi, but this time I watched the films with more awareness of the various critiques, criticisms and elements that have been deemed problematic.

I also went to the trouble of jotting down some notes.

This post is kinda all over the place, but I am going to go over my notes and observations and a main topic I want to look at is:

How Rey’s relationships and interactions with Finn and Kylo Ren differ and what sort of implications does this have.

Since stepping my toe into the reylo tags and other related tags I have NOT been able to fully articulate where I stand on whether reylo is toxic, Kylo Ren / Ben Solo is abusive, whether Kylo Ren / Ben Solo is worthy of redemption and to what degree Kylo / Ben being abused and manipulated excuses his actions.

I have to confess that the more parallels and similarities I see between Kylo Ren and Anakin / Darth Vader the more uneasy I feel about shipping reylo.

Regardless of my opinion people are free to do what they want.  If shipping reylo makes you happy, who am I too badger you into doing otherwise?

Me, writing out this long post is an attempt to flush out my thoughts at the present.

Watching the movies again I was struck by how different Rey’s interactions were with Finn and Kylo Ren.  There is a sequence in The Force Awakens between Rey and Finn that reminds me of the throne room sequence between Kylo Ren and Rey when Kylo offers his hand and asks her to rule beside him.  ((Please pardon me for paraphrasing and not having all the lines of dialogue memorized.))

Rey and Finn

At Maz’s place when Han, Rey and Finn are trying to arrange transport for BB8 to the resistance and / or get another ship to avoid detection by the First Order.

Maz looks into Finn’s eyes and remarks that he looks like someone who wants to run away.  Maz tells Finn that there is a way out.  That there are some beings that will arrange transit to the outer rim and exchange for work.

Finn approaches the beings and tells them not to leave without him.

Rey is frustrated by this.  How can he just leave?  What about BB8?  What about the resistance?  I believe this is when Finn comes clean that he is not actually with the resistance.  That he is a stormtrooper and he is not going back to the First Order and wants to stay as far away from them as possible.

Finn asks Rey to come with him.  To join him.  Rey says no.  And I believe Finn tells Rey to take care of herself.

There are no hurt feelings on Finn’s part.  He doesn’t try to persuade or manipulate her to change her mind.  He simply wishes that she takes care of herself.

Here are a few other bullet point items I want to highlight.

- Kylo Ren force pushing Rey into a tree and Finn coming to her aid and kneeling beside her reminds me of Anakin choking out Padme on Mustafar and Obi-Wan Kenobi going to Padme.

- Finn’s main motivation for going to Starkiller base was to rescue Rey.

- Rey clutches & hugs an unconscious Finn who fought and lost to Kylo Ren.

- After Starkiller base is blown up and Rey, Finn and Chewbacca are in transit.  Rey plants a kiss on Finn’s forehead as he lies unconscious.

- When Finn wakes up in The Last Jedi the first thing he says is, “Where is Rey?“

- Finn’s motivation for trying to get away in an escape pod is basically keep Rey safe.  Finn thinks the fleet is doomed.  If Finn can to an escape pod and reach safety, Rey will be able to find him and she will be safe.

- I want to say that there is another time that Rey hugs Finn.  Maybe this is when Han, Finn and Rey first find each other on Starkiller?

Finn is not a perfect person.  He does lie to Rey about being part of the resistance.  In terms of being an honorable, moral and ethical person I think it is quite clear Finn is a better person than Kylo Ren / Ben Solo.  

But in real life and in fiction people can be attracted to and fall in love with horrible people.  ((I suppose right here my own words are a damning statement against reylo.))

Some observations I made from watching The Last Jedi

- When Kylo Ren and Rey have their first force skype call.  Kylo’s first reaction is confusion.  And his second reaction is to reach out with the force to try to manipulate Rey to bring Luke Skywalker to him.

- When Rey pushes Kylo Ren to explain why he killed his father, Han Solo--I find it curious that Kylo deflects the question and starts talking about Rey’s parents and how they threw her away.  Given the plot twist in TROS this now makes Kylo look like a manipulator and a liar.  In the best case scenario Kylo was telling a version of the truth that is incomplete.  I suppose in a way Kylo does indirectly answer Rey’s question by saying, “Let the past die.  Kill it if you have to.  That’s the only way to become what you are meant to be.“  This could be read as manipulative and an attempt to push Rey to the dark side by killing Luke.

- I’m still not sure what to make of the 2nd force bond scene.  The connection is terminated and Kylo Ren is wiping his face with a gloved hand and we see...water?  Kylo Ren’s tears on his glove?  There is a wave of water crashing against some rocks in front of Rey just before Kylo is seen wiping his face.

- When an unconscious Kylo Ren wakes up in the throne room.  It is just Kylo Ren and Hux.  It’s quick, but it looks like Hux reaches into his coat to draw a weapon and shoot Kylo Ren.

- What did Rey tell Chewbacca to tell Finn?  I’m sure someone knows, but I just need to do some more digging online.

- Kylo Ren vs Luke Skywalker.  Near the very end of the fight Kylo Ren says, “I’ll destroy her [Rey] and you and all of it.“

- Overall I’m just surprised how often Rey is brought to tears throughout these movies.  It’s understandable because of what she is going through and what she has been through.  Someone must have counted how many times Rey cries and how many times it was with X or Y character and what they were talking about. 

Rey and Kylo Ren: The Throne Room

Ok, so let’s sum up the events leading up to Kylo Ren’s proposal.

Rey is brought before Snoke who tortures her for information about Skywalker.

When Snoke gets the information he wants AND it becomes clear that Rey is a true Jedi who will not serve him, Snoke then orders Kylo Ren to kill Rey.

Kylo Ren spares Rey and kills Snoke.

Kylo Ren and Rey fight off the guards together.

Kylo gives his speech about letting old things die.  What stands out to me is Kylo does NOT specifically mention the First Order.  Snoke, Luke Skywalker, the Sith, the Jedi, the resistance all need to die, but not the First Order.

Rey pleads with Ben not to do this.  Not to go down this path.  Which is reminiscent of what Padme said to Anakin on Mustafar.

Kylo / Ben says, “You’re still holding on!  Let go!”  ((Holding onto what exactly?  The resistance?  Hope?  The Jedi path?  The light side of the force?))  And once again Kylo / Ben talks about Rey’s parentage.

“You’re nothing, but not to me.  Please.”  For a while I have interpreted this as Kylo Ren / Ben Solo being honest and blunt to a fault, but seeing and listening to this again in it’s full context this does read as Kylo Ren being manipulative. Breaking Rey down, she comes from nothing, she is nothing, she has no place in this, but hey why don’t you join me and have a seat right next to me on the winning side. 

Final Thoughts:

- At the very least Kylo Ren’s conduct and behavior are red flags.  Regardless of the extent that Kylo Ren was manipulated and abused his behavior and his interactions with Rey in the TFA and TLJ are troubling to say the least.  There does come a point when someone cannot use the excuse of being abused to justify their abusive behavior.  “Ok, so you were abused and learned some bad habits and coping mechanisms, but here is the thing your actions are causing real harm to another person and that is not cool.”  It’s hard and it’s difficult to change those habits and people will slip up on the road to recovery.  I think we also need to recognize the complication that Rey and Kylo Ren are at war on opposite sides. 

- I think there was descent chemistry and a connection between Rey and Finn, but I feel like that gets de-railed at the end of TLJ when Finn is tending to Rose and Rey is interacting with Leia. 

- I think Rey and Finn is a lot less problematic than Rey and Kylo Ren / Ben Solo.  Just compare the throne room scene to the interaction between Finn and Rey at Maz’s place.

- Do I still ship reylo?  Here is how I will answer the question for now.  As flawed as Kylo Ren / Ben Solo is I do like him and find him to be a character I can relate to alongside Rey.  I have not seen TROS in theaters and don’t think I will waste my money going to see it.

I would have LOVED to see a happy ending for Ben Solo instead of a variant of Darth Vader’s redemption and death.  This has already been done, why not do something different?  Isn’t this ending more hopeful?  You know instead of Han, Luke, Leia dying in vain to save Ben. 

I would have LOVED if the people making TROS put more careful thought and consideration into Ben’s story arc and character development.

Fitting with the theme of: finding the balance, not everything is black and white, there are a lot of grey areas / ambiguity, etc.

I would have been fine with some sort of ending where Ben faces some sort of punishment for his crimes and he is neither condemned to death or is completely pardoned without consequences.

I am very curious to know what political scientists and psychologists would say about sentencing someone like Kylo Ren / Ben Solo for war crimes.  In the comics that have been released so far it seems like Ben Solo is much younger when he is turned to the dark side and taken in by the First Order.  I think in TROS it’s revealed that Ben’s current age is 30 and he was 23 when he joined Snoke and the First Order.  At age 23 Ben Solo is considered an adult, he is not a child soldier.  “But he was being manipulated before he was even born.“  I hear you...unfortunately I don’t know how or if that would factor into Ben Solo’s being charged with war crimes.

Right now, I am in favor of ignoring the mess that is TROS and replacing it with fanfiction where Rey and Ben Solo are able to live a health and happy life.  And perhaps some day they will rebuild a new Jedi order that strives to accept and learn from the mistakes of the past.

- Is Kylo Ren / Ben Solo worthy of redemption?  I think in order to answer this question we need to ask, what does it mean to be redeemed?  What does someone have to do in order to be redeemed or atone for their wrong doing? 

I think the short answer is it’s complicated and everyone has different opinions.  Some people are probably of the opinion that Kylo Ren / Ben Solo is beyond redemption.  There is nothing he can do.  He can never do enough to make up for what he has done.

I think the more complicated answer is it’s a long process and not everyone will forgive you--heck maybe no one will forgive you. 

And whether you are punished or not punished is an entirely different matter. 

There are things Kylo Ren / Ben Solo has done that he can never take back.  Kylo Ren cannot bring Han Solo back from the dead or any of the hundreds or thousands of people he has cut down.  The fact Kylo Ren has murdered even one person is probably reason enough in the eyes of some people for why he can never be redeemed.

Kylo Ren / Ben Solo turned toward the light and toward Rey.  In my opinion I think this action could be considered an act of repentance, but falls short of redeeming / atoning for all his past sins.  I think full redemption / atonement is a much more lengthier process.

Ultimately, I think this is a question worth pondering for ourselves.

#reylo #the force awakens #the last jedi #the rise of skywalker #ben solo #kylo ren #rey #rose tico #poe dameron #finn