#— considers it and almost goes along with it before deciding for Both his and lister's sakes not to

[charliespringverse]

... it's just hit me that lister describes the bathroom kiss as assault and even when jimmy reassures him that he doesn't see it that way and doesn't have a problem with it, lister refuses to accept that it was anything other than objectively assault

while two days earlier jimmy insisted that a 32-yr-old having sex with lister at age 16 was wrong, despite lister not seeing it that way and not having a problem with it

does that mean that lister took that conversation on board but only as far as "the person on the receiving end of an advance can't accurately assess whether or not it was wrong" and is now equating himself to the woman that took advantage of him . because i will weep

#i am conflicted about the bathroom kiss to an extent #because on the one hand . do not kiss someone without asking dude wtf #but also . the difference in jimmy's response to it compared to the magnet situation which is? relatively similar #w magnet he was 'this is fine'ing his whole way through it and forcing himself to be ok with it and would've likely kept going if— #— lister hadn't interrupted it #whereas in the bathroom he is in an objectively worse mental state & more consistently dissociative despite being sober . yet he actively— #— considers it and almost goes along with it before deciding for Both his and lister's sakes not to #and i think his clarity & consideration there as well as the fact he felt Safe to pull away is meaningful to an extent #because it's one of the only situations this week where he's actually felt & acted on a sense of control over what happens to him #+ lister's immediate reaction being to back off and recognise his being at fault and never once holding it against jimmy #like again . should not have happened do not kiss ppl without asking #but i do find myself viewing it in a very different light to the v comparable magnet situation #anygay i am rambling in tags again when i should be asleep but still #i worry that lister is now viewing himself in the same light as jimmy views the ppl that took advantage of lister #but i Also worry that he is viewing himself as Worse than those ppl bc he can't/won't accept that he was taken advantage of #i do also now kind of want to write a Lister In Therapy oneshot partly just for the catharsis of imagining that boy getting some gd therapy #iwbftreread

[ncthingstars]

@guttersniper​ / this is for you, enjoy :)))))

         they hadn’t meant for it to happen.

“i said he shouldn’t have gone,” the cat says bitterly. 

lister shoots him a look, bewildered and slightly peeved. “no you didn’t.”

“with all due respect, sir, mr. lister is correct.” kryten looks about as glum as his silicon face allows. “you said none of us should have gone. you didn’t want to scavenge that gelf ship at all. in fact, i distinctly remember you saying something about only being halfway done blowdrying your hair.” his voice turns haughty. “i on the other hand said that it would be irresponsible for him to go with us.”

cat hisses --- actually hisses! --- at them both and turns away, turning up his nose and folding his arms. kryten and lister exchange a glance, and then lister pops open his fifth lager in the last hour.

“well congrats, you two, you had the right smeggin’ idea then.” he guzzles half the can down in one go. “meanwhile, the whole thing was my idea. i was the one who said we should go. who said it would be fine, no big deal. i should’ve known better! should’ve expected this.” he hurls the now-empty can across the room and it bounces off the wall and lands in a pile with the others. “glad you two can absolve yourselves.” kryten makes a face like he’s going to interject, but ultimately falls quiet as lister keeps talking. “i mean, we’re all adults here. we do dangerous stuff all the time, but we know the risks. we can make our own decisions. but he’s just a kid. was just a kid!” he slams his hand down on the table so hard kryten and cat both jump. “smeg!” 

kryten pauses, waiting to make absolutely sure lister’s done before he says, “sir, i think you, and i, and all of know that mutt always made his own decisions no matter what. being an adult has nothing to do with it. he wanted to go. none of us could’ve stopped him.”

lister slumps in his chair. “but we could’ve protected him. i mean. we’re his family. that’s what we do.”

“i don’t think any of us could’ve stopped it,” cat says bluntly. “it came out of nowhere. seriously, what crazy scientist said ‘we should definitely teach our genetically-engineered-life-forms to use fireams’???? i don’t get it.”

“yeah, well.” lister looks like he’s trying to disappear into the ground. “we still should’ve tried.”

they lapse into solemn silence, no one really knowing what to say to that. saying we did try just feels like a cop-out, and quite frankly, a lie.

finally though, cat says, “i’m gonna miss the little guy,” and they all nod.

kryten turns to rimmer, who has been uncharacteristically quiet --- sitting at the table with them, but facing away, hands folded neatly in his lap. if kryten didn’t know better, he’d say he was meditating. “mr. rimmer, sir?” he asks. “are you alright? is there anything you’d like to say?”

no response.

“rimmer?” lister prompts, more gently. “you in there?”

rimmer turns slightly in his chair. his face is red, eyes blotchy. lister decides to not comment on that. 

“it was me,” he says, almost too quiet to hear. the others turn to him, expressions inquisitive. “it was me,” rimmer repeats, louder. “kryten said someone should stay behind on red dwarf, and i insisted it be me. it’s my fault he went and got himself shot.”

lister’s first instinct is to say something along the lines of, yeah, you smegged up real bad, rimmer, you selfish cowardly git. but he suspects rimmer is already thinking it. and frankly, they all share the blame. he knows that, even if it’s easier to try and take it all on his own shoulders. so instead, he goes, as if to pat rimmer’s arm --- and then stops, realizing he still can’t touch him. “rimmer, i can’t believe i’m saying this, but it’s really not your fault. you staying doesn’t mean he couldn’t. he didn’t want to. he wanted to come with us.”

"maybe i could’ve.... i don’t know. done something to protect him. wrestled the gun from that slimy gelf’s hands. knocked it out with its own weapon.” 

“rimmer man, no offense, but you never would’ve done that.” lister has to laugh, even if it’s not really funny, at the image of rimmer actually taking on a gelf head-on alone. “besides, you’re a hologram, you wouldn’t have be able to do any of that stuff anyway.”

“so you’re saying i’m useless.” rimmer deflates. “helpless to even save the lives of my own crew.” 

oh.

lister’s eyes widen, almost comically in sync with rimmer’s, as they both realize. 

“rimmer, listen ---” but the hologram is already rising from his chair, rushing out of the room. “smeg! rimmer ---” lister puts his head in his hands for a moment, then sighs and stands up. “guys, i’m gonna go find him, before he does something stupid.”

“but he’s always doing something stupid!” cat says.

“not helping.” cat scowls, and lister rushes out to try and catch up with rimmer.

he’s out of breath by the time he reaches the observation dome, but luckily rimmer is there, just as he suspected. he’s staring out at the starry sky, and doesn’t even turn around as lister comes up behind him. “he and i came up here a lot together,” rimmer says, and lister’s frankly surprised by how upset rimmer seems to be. maybe he actually is taking mutt’s death as hard as the rest of them. “for different reasons, obviously, but we’d both end up standing right here. it was.... i don’t know. it was the one time i ever actually felt like someone here understood me. like i could connect with someone actually living and breathing, on a personal level. we didn’t even talk most of the time.” he finally looks at lister, and this time there’s no hiding the fact that he’s been crying. well shit. even lister hasn’t found it in himself to cry yet. rimmer draws in a shaky breath. “do you think i’m a bad person?”

for a moment, lister is dumbfounded. he has no idea what to say to that. “i...” yeah. i do. and you know it. “what’s this about, rimmer, really?” he asks instead. “why the sudden ethical crisis?”

rimmer looks straight ahead again, staring at nothing as he tries to pull himself together. “as you may recall, listy, three million years ago i was responsible for the deaths of the entire crew of red dwarf.”

“yeah, i think i remember that, vaguely,” lister shoots back, unable to resist snarking at him. rimmer wrinkles his nose but otherwise ignores him.

“i was unable to do one simple task, which resulted in over one thousand lives being lost. but, i figured, i would never let it happen again. after all, it’s just the five of us. surely, i can handle that. but i couldn’t. i couldn’t even save one scrawny runt of a kid.” there’s a haunted look on his face, as if he’s thinking about some other scrawny kid from years ago. “he deserved better than that. than me.”

lister sighs, leaning his elbows on the railing. “yeah, he did,” lister agrees. “he did deserve better than you, than any of us. but that’s just how it goes. we’re who he got. and i think he was pretty smeggin’ happy with it. and he likes you, rimmer, he did. which is a miracle considering how annoying you are. and i know it’s hard, i know we’re all upset --- even the cat. but you gave him a family. doesn’t that count for something?”

rimmer is quiet as he mulls that over. “that’s more than some people get,” he says finally.

“yeah,” lister agrees, and though he knows he can’t actually touch him, he leans over against his shoulder. “it is.”

#1319 words.... BYE #guttersniper #‧͙⁺˚*･༓☾ last man alive! ( ic | lister ) #‧͙⁺˚*･༓☾ hologrammatic smeghead! ( ic | rimmer ) #‧͙⁺˚*･༓☾ if you don’t tell me to shut up i simply will not ( drabble )