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notalwaysright · 2 years
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Workers Are Human?!
https://notalwaysright.com/?p=258737 I work for a medical device company providing support. It’s essentially answering questions about use and any problems that pop up during use. I have a patient who ordered a replacement part, and it was sent to the wrong address. We order a new replacement, and I promise to follow up once I get the tracking information to relay it to the patient. I end up in a car accident on the way home, and after spending the night in the hospital, I take a few days off to recover. I come back to the office and find my email flooded with messages from the patient. He’s angry that I haven’t provided an update and has apparently also flooded the office with calls demanding to speak to me. I call the patient back, and I let him know that I was out of the office due to an accident. Patient: “How is that my problem?” I let my manager handle him after that. Source: https://notalwaysright.com/?p=258737
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notalwaysright · 2 years
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Carpeted With Apologies
https://notalwaysright.com/?p=260997 I am working the front counter at a sushi restaurant. It’s getting pretty late and we have a full house. At this particular location, the guests will come to the front register to pay for their meals. A group that has been situated at one of our tables — three young men and a woman — approaches the counter. I smile at them as they arrive and the first one hands me their bill and card. “How was everything?” I ask cheerily as I finish checking out one individual and move to the next. Customer #1: “Great!” Customer #2: “Good, thanks.” Customer #3: “Good.” Customer #4: “Does the carpet match the drapes?” There is a silence as I stare in absolute shock at the man who spoke. His friend, a large local man, throws his billfold and credit card at me and wrangles his friend out of the restaurant by the back of his collar with repeated apologies. Once they are gone, the three remaining customers ask if I’m okay, apologize to me numerous times, and pay out their tabs. They all cycle outside and have a group conversation beyond our windows as I stand there, still in relative confusion as to what happened. Eventually, the large man comes back in to retrieve his card, which I have processed. Customer #1: “I am so sorry about that.” Me: “I, umm, it’s okay.” Customer #1: “He works in construction, and apparently, someone on his jobsite told him that ‘Does the carpet match the drapes?’ is a response to someone asking how things were going.” Me: “He’s never heard the term before?” He shakes his head. Customer #1: “Apparently not. He’s not the best wordsmith out of us; I genuinely believe that he would not have said that had he known the true implications of the phrase.” Me: “I see. Well, no harm done.” Customer #1: “He wants to come back in and apologize if you are cool with that.” Me: “Sure.” The man taps on the window of the shop, attracting the attention of his friends, and the young man that created the problem came back in. Customer #4: “I am sooooooo sorry. I didn’t know.” Me: “It’s all right. What did you think that meant?” Customer #4: “When we do work, interiors are always last. I was told by someone I was working with that the phrase is the same thing as saying, ‘Everything went well,’ because the carpets and drapes are installed.” Me: “I see.” The larger boy shook his head, burying his face in his hands. The group ended up leaving me a $37 tip and became regulars of the location. Source: https://notalwaysright.com/?p=260997
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notalwaysright · 2 years
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Robert Redford Needs To Control His Fans
https://notalwaysright.com/?p=258735 My (smaller) theater is located in a county that has a rather huge population of retirees and elderly people. A new Robert Redford movie has come out that has proven to be extremely popular with the over-sixty crowd. We have two cheaper matinee shows of the movie earlier in the day, and every single day for the last five days, the matinee showtimes have sold out. There will be literally no seats sold… and then, about twenty minutes before the movie begins, suddenly a gaggle of old people will all show up out of nowhere and swarm the box office and automated ticket kiosks, and it’ll be completely sold out within minutes. It’s happened with literally every single matinee. Of course, none of them are coming to the slightly more expensive prime-time evening shows, so those have been selling only a few tickets at most. The second matinee show-time is at 2:00 pm. Right on cue, at about 1:40 pm, suddenly the previously empty lobby is absolutely full of old people, and the 2:00 pm showtime is sold out by 1:50 pm. I deal with the expected angry rants and profanity from people who got stuck at the back of the line and couldn’t get tickets — because evidently it’s my fault that the movie sold out and there are no tickets left — and by 2:00 pm, the lobby is pretty much empty save for a small handful of people in line at the concession stand. At 2:10 pm, a couple in their forties or fifties comes up to the box office. Husband: “Two tickets to [Robert Redford Movie] at two.” Me: “I apologize, but that showtime is unfortunately sold out. If you’d like, we do have a 5:00 pm show today that’s completely open, although tickets would be $1.75 more.” Husband: *Immediately furious* “How the f*** is it ‘sold out?!’ I checked [Third-Party Website] an hour ago and there wasn’t a single seat sold!” Me: “Unfortunately, that particular movie has been selling out quickly, usually right before the showtime.” Husband: “That’s just ridiculous! I bet you just don’t want to sell me a seat! Do your f****** job!” Me: “Trust me, sir. Look at this.” I bring up the seating chart on my register and show him that all seventy-eight seats in the auditorium are sold. The only tickets that aren’t sold are the four empty wheelchair spaces at the back that we can only sell to customers in wheelchairs. The man grunts in anger and storms off with his wife following close behind. I think nothing more of it until my boss approaches me a few minutes later with the couple. Boss: “I’ve been told you were refusing to sell tickets to this couple?” Me: *Shocked* “I most certainly did not refuse a sale. They asked for tickets to a sold-out showtime, so I obviously couldn’t sell them any tickets to it.” Boss: “Oh, were they trying to get tickets to [Robert Redford Movie]?” Me: “Yup.” My boss turns to the couple. Boss: “Yeah, unfortunately, that movie is sold out. Pretty much every matinee showing of that sells out suddenly right before the movie.” Husband: “Bulls***! I want this p***k fired! He just won’t do his job!” Boss: “Excuse me! Do not speak to me that way, and do not refer to my employee as a ‘p***k’! The showtime is sold out.” Husband: “There’s no way! I checked [Third-Party Website] an hour ago and it was completely open!” Boss: “Fine, come with me.” My boss leads the couple to the auditorium playing the movie and opens the door. The man sees that the theater is completely full, immediately looks utterly defeated, and turns bright red. He and his wife turn and walk toward the exit door in front of the box office. But before he leaves, he stops and shoots me the nastiest gaze I’ve ever seen. Husband: *To me* “F*** you!” He then left, making sure to kick a garbage can as hard as he could and push over a smoker’s pole outside the doors. His wife looked utterly embarrassed. Source: https://notalwaysright.com/?p=258735
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notalwaysright · 2 years
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Don’t Mind Me, Just Following Policy!
https://notalwaysright.com/?p=259674 When I was a senior in high school, I started working as a cashier at a grocery store. While this was not my first job, it was the first one where I was part of a union, and I learned about some of the pros and cons of unions — mostly pros like regular raises, breaks, holiday pay, etc. We had a woman there who was basically our human resources person. We did not get along, even before I worked there. I came in for my interview and [Employee] was not there and had left work for the day. I remember apologizing and saying: Me: “I must have mixed up the days. Is there any way you can find out which is the correct day for my interview?” But the manager on duty advised me that I was correct as they had checked the calendar in her office and she had written it down. He, the front-end supervisor, and the other manager who came in to start his shift all interviewed and hired me instead. I later heard through the grapevine that [Employee] was working two locations and really wanted to be hired full-time at a larger store, which would have been a promotion for her, but instead, she was placed full-time at our location only and didn’t get promoted. Missing my interview was the final nail in the coffin for her, as this was just one of a long list of mistakes she made. She was always making excuses for why I couldn’t put in to be transferred to another department when they were hiring people for those departments like bakery or deli, and she kept me as cashier even though it was lower pay. Even so, I came back to work there over my winter and summer breaks for college. Here is where a bit of malicious compliance comes in. Our union states that after a waiting period (I believe it was three months) we get “holiday pay” — time and a half — for working Sundays and holidays. We also are entitled to a raise every six months, and being away at college is not supposed to affect that since we join the union before leaving and come back on our breaks and still owe our dues during those times when we are still part of the union but away at school. I got my first paycheck stub for the summer and noticed that I did not get my holiday pay for working that Sunday, nor my raise! I spoke with a coworker who advised me to speak with the store manager — he was one of the ones that interviewed me, and he always looked after his staff — since we were between union reps at the time. He was a born problem-solver and told me right away that he could fix the payroll error for me and make sure that I got not only the proper wage from now on but the backpay for the time I should have gotten the raise but didn’t. As far as the holiday pay, though, that had to be taken care of by [Employee] since she was in Human Resources, and he suggested we go see if she was free and speak with her. She just spoke to both of us in a condescending tone about how this was union policy, that I had to start all over again with seniority, and that I had to earn that holiday pay again by being there for three months. [Store Manager] pointed out, as did I, that I was getting this holiday before leaving for college and even over the winter break that I had worked, but she just kept saying to me, “It’s union policy.” My manager calmly tried to negotiate with her and get her to correct things, and he even stated that other employees had not had to go through this. I finally just raised my hand to silence them both. Me: “Okay, so you are saying that I can’t get my holiday pay, even though I was getting it before I left to go back to college at the end of January, due to union policy, correct?” Employee: “Yes.” She said this with a long dramatic sigh that was meant to say, “Like I have been telling you.” I nodded and grinned. Me: “But union policy also states that I don’t have to work holidays or Sundays and that I can’t be penalized for refusing to do so, correct?” My manager grinned at me like he was very proud of me as he saw exactly where this was going. Employee: *Looking a bit nervous* “Well, um, yes, that is true.” Me: *With a shrug* “Okay. Then here is the compromise: since union policy states that I can’t get the holiday pay for working Sundays and holidays, for the rest of the summer, I will not work any Sundays or holidays, and per union policy, I am allowed to do this.” She immediately started laying on the charm about how I was such a “great worker” and that they “really needed me to be there to help out with Sundays and holidays,” but I pointed out that they had plenty of other employees who were getting the holiday pay that they could count on, and I would be glad to return to working holidays and Sundays once I got my holiday pay for doing so. My manager commented that he and I needed to change the schedule and casually mentioned that this was going to be hard. Manager: “Now I’ll have to take you off for next Sunday, and Monday’s Memorial Day… and today is Thursday. But we’ll just have to make it work if we can’t find anyone willing to come in.” Once [Employee] had left for the day, he called me upstairs to his office to help with the schedule since I had to work so many days each week. I walked in to find him and another manager there grinning ear to ear and telling me how proud they were of me for how I handled that situation. On Memorial Day and the Fourth of July, I got a call asking if I could come in because they had other people call out sick who were scheduled. I just calmly explained that I was no longer working Sundays or holidays and that [Employee] could explain why. Before the end of the summer, [Employee] found a new position and quit, and the new HR person was much nicer. One of the first things she did was make sure I and a few other college students who had similar issues with the holiday got our holiday pay reinstated. When I requested a transfer to another department, she gladly asked around and had me put in the health and beauty aides department that same week. Source: https://notalwaysright.com/?p=259674
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notalwaysright · 2 years
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Staying Past Close Is A Close Call
https://notalwaysright.com/?p=257998 I work in a HIGHLY seasonal job in the northeastern US. It’s a pool store. Our swim season is May to September, with some outliers for having heaters, indoor pools, and hot tubs. By November, the store closes at 6:00 pm and I’m usually locking the doors at 6:02 pm. On this particular night, I have to do a deposit, which requires two extra minutes of paperwork. So, at 6:04, I’m dotting the I in my final signature when I hear someone aggressively pull on the door. I look up and shrug and point to my imaginary watch. Too bad, buddy, right? Wrong. He tugs again. I go and unlock the door and crack it open just enough to converse. Me: “Hey! I’m really sorry, but we’re closed for the night. I’ve got everything shut down already.” Customer: “I got here as soon as I could. Can’t you help me?” Me: “I’m sorry, but the registers are shut down. I can’t start them again until tomorrow.” Customer: “I just drove for over an hour to get here. It’s not even five minutes past close; you should still be open.” Me: “Sir, I have plans tonight. My last customer came in three hours ago. If you call to say you’re on your way but might be late, I’ll happily stay for you, but I won’t sit here all night for no reason. Just call ahead next time.” The next week, I got four calls from him with traffic updates. He made it in around 5:45 and spent thirty minutes nitpicking and attempting to barter corporate-set prices. Source: https://notalwaysright.com/?p=257998
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notalwaysright · 2 years
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Can’t Even Go To The Movies In Peace
https://notalwaysright.com/?p=259952 I’m a sixteen-year-old student on a date with my partner. I was assaulted a few months ago due to rumors that I had sexually assaulted a deal of people. One of the assaulter’s friends works at the movie theater my partner and I are going to, and I am worried they are going to be working the day of our date.  We head inside and go to the concession stand. Just my luck, they’re working, and we’re served by them. My partner steps behind me and is quite visibly scared and is shaking. The cashier also seems slightly nervous. Me: “Can we get a large popcorn, a medium Coke, and a medium Nestea?” Cashier #1: “Yeah, sure.” She gets the popcorn and then my partner’s drink. When it comes to my drink, the Coke, she fills it up and then dumps it out. Cashier #1: “Sorry, it was too full. I need to remake it.” That is a red flag for me. She remakes it and hands it to me, I pay, and we go to our theater. When we get to our seats, I immediately take a sip of the Coke I got. It tastes terrible.  Me: “Try this. I think it’s Sprite, but it’s too dark in here to tell.” Partner: *Sips* “Oh, ew. I think it’s just watered down, but by a lot.” Me: “I’ll head back to concessions to have them remake it.” Another cashier is available, so I go to her instead. Me: “Hey, I asked for a Coke but was given either Sprite or really watered-down Coke.” Cashier #2: *Opens the cup* “Oh, yeah, that’s watered down. I’ll remake it for you.” Cashier #1: “I can take care of that. Don’t worry. He’s probably just complaining for the sake of it.” Me: “No, she’s got it.” The second cashier remade the drink, properly this time, and I went back to the theater. My partner and I were discussing it, and we both agreed it was intentionally sabotaged. I just wanted to be civil; I don’t think there was any need to be petty. Source: https://notalwaysright.com/?p=259952
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notalwaysright · 2 years
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Wrong About The Wrong Thing
https://notalwaysright.com/?p=261237 I send an email to an online store in my country. Me: “You have sent me the wrong thing.” Webshop: “Just send it back and we will send you the right thing. However, if you decide to also keep the wrong thing, we will have to charge you for it.” I am not a lawyer, but I do know our national consumer law. Me: “Thank you. By the way, it is illegal to require payment for something that you have sent by mistake.” This law is in place so that scammers can’t just send people stuff and demand payment. The law is from way before online shopping when crooks just put unwanted stuff in people’s mailboxes and then came back later demanding money. In the case of an actual order, the responsibility to deliver the ordered item to the address given lies completely with the seller. As a result of this law, any receiver is allowed to keep any unasked for, incorrect, or wrongly delivered items for free. But the webshop doesn’t believe me. Webshop: “No, if you keep the wrong thing, we will charge you for it.” I sent the “wrong thing” back, of course, but not because of their threat. Only one of these days they are going to this to an actual lawyer. Source: https://notalwaysright.com/?p=261237
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notalwaysright · 2 years
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Optional Behavior
https://notalwaysright.com/?p=258579 I am checking out a mother with her young daughter, aged maybe three or four. She keeps grabbing candy and placing it on the conveyer, giggling adorably. Mother: “[Daughter], stop it. You have candy at home. I thought we agreed you’d behave.” Daughter: “I tried to behave, Mommy, but there are just so many other options!” I had to stifle a giggle as I finished checking them out. Source: https://notalwaysright.com/?p=258579
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notalwaysright · 2 years
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Uh… Do You Need A Hug, Or…?
https://notalwaysright.com/?p=259950 One of my coworkers is a real ball of sunshine. I overhear this exchange with another coworker as she’s leaving for the day. Coworker #1: “Well, have a good night, [Coworker #2]!” Coworker #2: “No, I won’t have a good night. I’m spending it with my daughter!” Source: https://notalwaysright.com/?p=259950
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notalwaysright · 2 years
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Good Customers, Bad Customers, It's All Relative
https://notalwaysright.com/?p=260278 I have a very friendly regular who comes in super early every morning. They always order the same thing, and we always have a little talk. Regular: “I just took one of those DNA test thingies.” Me: “Oh, wow! Me, too!” Regular: “It’s really cool.” Me: “Yeah, the ancestry mix is amazing. My family is from so many places.” Regular: “Yeah, but the family tree function is the best part. I found cousins and relatives I didn’t even know I had.” Me: “Really? That’s on there?” Regular: “Yes! You have to opt in. Want me to show you?” Me: “Yes, please!” Since it’s so early and quiet, the regular takes my phone and activates the “Relatives” section of the ancestry app. Straightaway, it highlights some distant cousins. Me: “That’s so cool!” The regular’s phone dings with a notification. Regular: “Oh, would you look at that? I’ve got new relative matches, too!” We both look at our phones for a moment to take in the new information, and then we both realize something. We look up at each other, shocked but smiling. Me: “Your great-grandma was Nanna Beth from Brooklyn?” Regular: “Hello, cousin!” She’s no longer “just” my favorite regular now! Source: https://notalwaysright.com/?p=260278
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notalwaysright · 2 years
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Uninformed About The Forms
https://notalwaysright.com/?p=259948 I recently got married and am changing my last name through the Social Security Administration. They’re not taking in-office appointments due to the health crisis, and I can’t get the local branch to ever answer their phone, so I’m purely going off their website instructions and the county website details for married name changes. I locate the correct form on the SSA website, fill it out, and mail it overnight to the local branch with my original birth certificate, marriage license, etc. Before I send it, I triple-check the form, what I’m including, and their website instructions. A few weeks go by, and I receive a packet in the mail with all of my original documents back — no other notifications, no original form, no SSA card, etc. I ask my recently married friend about her experience, and she says the timelines line up; she received her original documents back, and then a few weeks later, her card came. So, I wait a few more weeks. And then a few more. By now, I’m getting worried, so I try to call the office again, but the line goes through silence, hold music, and ringing, and then eventually cuts off every time. I finally get through after nearly thirty minutes on hold, and I hear someone say, “Hello?” and then immediately hang up. The next time, I don’t even hear a voice, just the distinct sound of a receiver being picked up and then put back down, ending the call. After ONE MORE try, I get a human on the phone! I give him my birth and married names and he finds my original form. Agent: “Oh, yes, we received your form and documents, but we didn’t know what to do with them. We thought maybe it was for your taxes.” Me: “You mean the official name change form that I printed off your website and mailed along with my birth certificate, passport, and marriage license per the instructions of the Social Security Administration?” Agent: “Yes. So, what did you want to do with it?” Me: “Change my last name?” Agent: “To what?” Me: “To the name on the form I filled out?” I got my new SSA card in the mail two weeks later. Source: https://notalwaysright.com/?p=259948
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notalwaysright · 2 years
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Rated M For Miserable
https://notalwaysright.com/?p=258733 I overheard this at my local game retailer. Customer #1: “Why would you play [Game]?” Customer #2: “For the same reason anyone plays any game; they enjoy it.” Customer #1: “But it’s rated E!” Customer #2: “Which stands for EVERYONE. What, you think that just because something is family-friendly, that means that adults can’t enjoy it?” Source: https://notalwaysright.com/?p=258733
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notalwaysright · 2 years
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Sorrey, Sareah.
https://notalwaysright.com/?p=259946 When my husband and I moved into our new home, I contacted the only Internet provider available in our area to get set up. Everything went smoothly until I received our first bill and saw they misspelled my first name by adding in an E — for example, Sareah instead of Sarah. I called in to have it corrected. Me: “Hi, I noticed my name was misspelled on my statement and would like to have it corrected.” Internet Company: “Unfortunately, we cannot correct it over the phone. You will need to drive to one of our store locations and show your ID to prove it is spelled wrong.” Me: “But you guys just put in an extra E. It should be Sarah, not Sareah.” Internet Company: “Sorry, there is nothing I can do. Would you like me to look up a location closest to you?” Me: *Still confused* “Ugh, sure.” They told me the closest store was one hour away in the opposite direction I usually travelled in. Me: “Okay, so just let me get this all straight. When I set up my account, your company misspelled my name, and now, due to your company’s mistake, I need to take time out of my day and drive an hour out of my way to correct it?” Internet Company: “Yes.” Me: “Thank you. Have a nice day.” I will be Sareah now until the day I die. Source: https://notalwaysright.com/?p=259946
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notalwaysright · 2 years
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My Job Security Outweighs Your Need For Beer
https://notalwaysright.com/?p=257976 I am the third customer in the queue. The first customers are a middle-aged couple and their kid who looks like he could be anywhere between sixteen and twenty. There are two bottles of beer among their other items, which I only pay attention to because the cashier is refusing to scan them. Cashier: “The problem is he looks legal age, but I can’t sell it to you if he can’t show ID.” Mum: “But it’s not for him; it’s for us.” Cashier: “But he’s with you, so I can’t sell it to you.” Mum: “I don’t see why I can’t buy my beer just because I have my son with me.” Cashier: “Look, he looks old enough to drink, but he also looks under twenty-five. I have to ID him.” Mum: “This is ridiculous!” Cashier: “I can’t sell it to you. I don’t know that it’s not a proxy sale.” Mum: “But I am telling you that I’m not going to give it to him!” Cashier: “If I am caught selling this to you, whether or not your son drinks any, I could lose my job. I could be facing jail time. I will not sell this to you.” Dad: “Well, how about this. I’ll just pick up those—” *points at the beer* “—and head to the back of the queue, yeah?” Cashier: “I can’t. I already know that you’re together. I can’t take that risk.” Dad: “But it would be just me buying beer.” Cashier: “No. If my supervisor catches me. If he saw on the security footage, I would be in a serious amount of trouble. You are not buying this beer.” There’s a bit more back and forth, but eventually, the family buys the rest of their things (without the beer) and leaves. The cashier calls over for another employee to put the beer away, and the next customer addresses him. Customer #2: “Some people…” Cashier: “For all I knew, that kid could have been sixteen, or he could hate the taste of beer, but it’s not a risk I can take.” Customer #2: “Oh, I know, sweetie. I just can’t believe their nerve!” Source: https://notalwaysright.com/?p=257976
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notalwaysright · 2 years
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Bold Move, Kid, But Mom Is Bolder
https://notalwaysright.com/?p=259044 I was in a store one day with my three-year-old. Son: “Can I have a lollipop?” Me: “No, we’re about to have lunch.” After I paid, I turned around and he was standing there with the candy in his mouth. Cashier: “He can have it.” Me: “We need to pay for it — as a life lesson.” Then, I took the lollipop out of his mouth and threw it in the cashier’s trashcan. The look on his face was priceless. He never tried that stunt again. Source: https://notalwaysright.com/?p=259044
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notalwaysright · 2 years
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When You Gotta Go (Crazy)
https://notalwaysright.com/?p=258731 I work in an art gallery. Just before closing time, a woman who had exited the gallery came back in again wanting to use the bathroom. Customer: “You saw me come in already. Can I just use the bathroom?” Me: “The closest one is occupied. By the time that guest gets out, we will be completing our closing procedures and asking people to leave.” The visitor exit is time-locked. Anyone left in the gallery after that has to wait to be let out by an employee. Customer: “You are a horrible human being. Absolutely horrible service. Disgusting how you treat people.” Me: “You can use the public bathrooms at [Location].” This is about three minutes’ walk away — in the direction she was heading! She continues her tantrum and attracts the attention of security, who soon relents and lets her head up to an upstairs bathroom. After she’s finished, she tries to get out by the entrance-only door, which is locked about ten minutes prior to closing. The only exit is by me. Customer: *Walking by me bitterly* “Thank you.”  She then proceeded to dump her used paper hand towels — at least, I hope they were hand towels — onto the host table. Just goes to show that even when you give them what they want, they’re still miserable. Source: https://notalwaysright.com/?p=258731
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notalwaysright · 2 years
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This Student Ain’t Just Full Of Hot Air
https://notalwaysright.com/?p=259364 Decades ago, back in high school, I had a terrible first semester of junior year — new teachers, bad substitutes, etc. But what hit me hard was the grade I got for Music. I was deeply involved with all of the music programs the school had to offer: concert-level flute, symphonic-level bassoon, marching band piccolo, etc. Plus, I filled in on French horn, alto sax, and baritone as needed. But for the marking period, I received a “B” grade. Furious, I marched into the new assistant band director’s office and started screaming with my choral-trained voice. My gleeful classmates told me later that, apparently, I could be heard all the way down the hall in the sound-proofed band practice room. The assistant director (who only had me for the bassoon) tried to explain that I was just not as good as the only other bassoonist — who had been playing the one instrument for five years, while I had only picked up the instrument five months prior. This somehow invalidated all the other work I did. I scared him so badly that he agreed to retroactively change my grade.  I explained that this grading had lowered my overall GPA, so I missed the National Honor Society entry by .001, which cost me a massive scholarship — the state-guaranteed one for every NHS member who attended an in-state university. Even though he changed my grade, the NHS would not accept it.   I spent the rest of the year and senior year glaring at the teacher every practice. He didn’t dare so much as look at me the entire time. I got my A every marking period from then on. Source: https://notalwaysright.com/?p=259364
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