lotarclasspects

[lotarclasspects]

More Thoughts on the Heir Class

I have made a couple of posts on the topic of the Heir class lately, mostly because as I was thinking about writing up and classifying most of the classes, with most of them I have a pretty clear grasp of at least the broader concepts, which literature archetypes they're based off, and how they relate and contrast to their opposing Class. This is best described by the pair I am most clear about, with the most canonical basis from which to draw from: Knight - Page + = SERVE (emphasized in several late- act 6 conversaions) Archetype: Batman and Robin, etc) Witch - Sylph + = MAKE (archetype: Occult advisor who exists on the outskirts of society. The Helpful Fairy, and the Witch (wicked, or Good) And with these I noticed a pattern. If my conclusion that the Sylph/Witch pairing was accurate, and had MAKE as their verb, the list would look like this Muse/Lord = MASTER Sylph/Witch = MAKE Bard/Prince = DESTROY Page/Knight = SERVE Rogue/Thief = STEAL Seer/Mage = KNOW Heir/Maid = ????? As you can see, each of these verbs has its own natural opposite. The opposite of to STEAL, to take, is to SERVE. The opposite of DESTROYing something, is to MAKE something. But the opposite of the word KNOW (which is said several times by Aradia in reference to Rose as the "knower of all fortune" and in Doc Scratch's conversation about Terezi's powers) is kind of the negation of it. What is the antonym of Known, Unknown right? But the negation of a thing- Not Destroying something is not the opposite of Destroying, in Homestuck. I know Two doesn't make a rule, but it seems too elegant to ignore. It would mean, instead of being 6 completely disparate dichotomies with no relation, it would be three sets of three. And then the Master classes, of course. So what the fuck is going on with the Heir and Maid then??? Of course, I have concluded they are a pair because their concepts are very close to each other. Both denote youth, both denote nobility and inheritance, (in the naming), and both have great shoes to fill and their Journey is about filling that role in their own way. They are also assisted by their Aspects. Jane is able to revive herself when she dies (Which Feferi is not shown as being able to do). John is assisted by The Breeze (which is clearly his powers working subconsciously to help him). I wonder, if Mage and Seer denote an idea of the Cerebral, then are Heir and Maid associated with the BODY, as in EMBODY? Whichever verb I have thought up, so far. "INHERIT", "EMBODY", "BECOME". There is clearly a linking theme between all of them. But each has their own subtle specificities. But they Might, on some level, boil down as "To Know vs To Be". I am not sure, at this time. But some things I've found notable are in terms of how Physically Becoming their aspect is linked to all. Aradia is "Maid of Time" (the Made of Time pun comes in a lot). Jane, aforementioned with the Lifey thing assisting her. John physically turning in to Wind. Equius though, if this is the case, is interesting. As we all know, His blood is used to Void out text. In the text, symbolically. His blood specifically.

This has been touched on a lot, when talking about Void's link to obscurity. But it's just occurred to me, that we never see Horuss's blood being used in this way. Or Roxy's. (I know it would be a little morbid in terms of using Roxy's blood, but the variables are to be touched upon to find the distinction).

Only Equius's. Only the Heir of Void's. On that note, too, he specifically has that Extreme Physical Strength thing going on. (Which John's father also mentions John should strive for too. Picking up his safe being a test of Manhood?) I have not looked over the Dancestors bit again yet, but I'm pretty sure Horuss isn't as freakishly strong or has that going on like Equius does. Their Heir though, I cannot say, only that he suffered a mental injury. I wonder if that is supposed to parallel Sollux suffering a physical injury, but keeping his mind? I cannot say. And I do not want to get too far off the track and make conclusions before I have more supplementary evidence. However, on a final note. One thing I did find. Is perhaps a strange connection between Heirs and Servitude? We know Maids can be a bit rebellious. But one thing I paid close attention to, with all the Ancestor talk, was linked to the idea that Doc Scratch not only engineered the Blood Castes to encourage Aspecty behaviour, but also Class(y) behaviour. Not much is said about Executioner Darkleer, except for this. He may have been the ONLY one of his Caste, to ever Rise Up against an order from The Highbloods.

Whilst Mindfang is musing here, it's clear that rebellion in this Caste is rare. So much so, that it's explicitly mentioned. As a clear foil to Equius's death when he Couldn't stand up to Gamzee. (Which may also tie in) Executioner Darkleer in reality, is a Page of Void. But when we look at the true Heir in this position...

He too, would be expected to life a life of Servitude. In the end, he did. Though it's important to note with Goldbloods, the expectations and influence of Mages would be prevalent castewide. In the same way Maids manage their aspect, are Heirs managed by? What does this mean exactly, in regards to their Personal Journey? I still do not have much of an idea. But if I do, I will make an official post on the matter. One final final thing I noticed though, about the Signless's main group of 4.... It's made up of a Seer, a Mage, a Maid, and an Heir.

If I'm on the right track in assuming those classes form a quartet in terms of Active/Passive and Opposite Verbs... I should pay close attention to how all their paths differ from each other, and are similar.

If I learn anything more defined, I will probably make a post about it here -teapotTrickster

#Homestuck #Heir Class #Heir of Void #Classpecting #classpect analysis #homestuck analysis

[lotarclasspects]

What is a "Mythological Role" Truly?

The idea for this post came to me out of the blue. But lately, in my quest to go back to the comic and build my own theories about Classpects and what they are, checking to make sure my beliefs are founded in evidence/direct from the source so on and so forth. I'm up to Act 5 at the moment. But what really captured my interest was, yes the classes and how they present, but also. What a Mythological Role really is.

It seems simple, on the surface. And I suppose it is. But in its simplicity, are layers and layers of philosophy. They all tie into ideas of "The Ultimate Self", a person's greatest potential. Consistent across every timeline and universe, so that the two are inseparable from a character's Personhood. A lot of Homestuck is like that, and I think at least for me, that's why I like it so much. What struck me most, began with how Vriska describes what Sburb itself is, in a conversation with John. That how the game itself, planets, and by extension classpect all suit themselves to the needs of the society of the children playing the game, but in a way also captures their potential. Taking them as children, the ideas and concepts which build the Universe giving rise to a new one. Destruction of the planet of origin and potential futures, all for Skaia's Ultimate Alchemy. Perhaps this is what Rose mentions, when she says the Gods convinced her that Skaia was an "evil" entity. Whilst Kanaya, connected to the concepts of Procreation, believes it to be only good, tasked with one clear and ultimate purpose. Anyway. Vriska talks to John, about how she was shaped by her society. How she was afraid of it, and excited by aspects of it, at times. But is ultimately thankful the game "Gave [Her] a purpose, which lead about creating [the humans]" And then she says this. =>

What captured my eye most, was "Because we got that chance, it means we'll never actually get to come of age and enter troll society and see if we got what it takes" That's kind of the spirit of Sburb, isn't it. It has people enter right at the moment of their greatest potential, when they truly begin to Grow Up, mentally etc. In this train of thought, the Mythological Role is also described (By Rose) as being representative of the journey they'd need to take to reach their greatest personal potentials, specified by Class. The Page class as we know is likened to the "Boy Skylark" FLARP class which is characterised by "Very weak, and a long path to mastery". Rose mentions her planet has "Everything a growing Seer could possibly need". She specifies Seer, rather than "Light Player"or Her specifically. She then says to John that his planet probably has everything he needs to grow as an "Heir" too. Again, specifying the class. It seems, that classes are decided for players sort of as the How of growing up. Everyone reaches mastery eventually, but what is the process to do so, and what does mastery look like for Them. But where does Aspect come into it? There are two conversations which catch my eye in regards to this. The first, is the very first time Aradia is shown in the comic after her revival into the God Tiers. She begins her role as Grim Reaper, and walks with Dave as he gathers that he is actually dead and not dreaming. She says she regrets not talking to him more, and that "

It seems to imply that assuming commonality based on Class alone, though, would be misleading. Class is the process, and Aspect is the overall role and theme. Kanaya and Jade also talk about how "their Role is effectively the same". In the same conversation that she likens the Sylph and Witch class, actually. But despite the idea that they might be opposites, it implies that despite the differences of their Classes, what they can do, and what their position is in Sburb, is ultimately much more similar than it is different. Aradia also says something interesting regarding Aspects in this same conversation. When she describes them sharing the Time aspect as "A game, - that we happen to be best at. but when all the games are back in the cupboard everyone is about the same"

It implies, not only akin to real life where Everyone kind of ends up on the same page after they reach adulthood, but that your Aspect. YOUR Aspect, which Sburb chooses for you, is not necessarily something you just Do. Not one of the many things you do, but the one you are Best at. that You are the best at, compared to others. I know with many people analysing themselves or characters there is a tendency to be like "but i do a lot of things, many of them could apply to me". And whilst "the one you are best at" here seems to garner additional context upon like significant themes in the lives of the characters, etc. It's implying heavily, that it is something, out of all of the Aspects, that you have the most potential of mastering the Best. Not necessarily at the current moment, but when all is said and done. There is a third conversation which I have not screenshotted yet, too. When Kanaya and Karkat are in Echidna's lair. And she talks about how she and Echidna talked about "A lot of things". The crux of the conversation is Echidna assessing their worth of inheriting the new universe. And whether they'd be prepared to accept the responsibility. Kanaya, as the person responsible for the Procreation, and Karkat as a moral/spiritual leader for their people. She mentions in this conversation, that being a hero of Space never really had much impact on her and she didn't really get it, until she understood it meant more than "physical space for stars and planets to occupy". She talks and asks Karkat, if there's a concept that has been with him always, which entices him, and scares him a little bit. For her, it would be "Procreation" which is explicitly tied to the true grand meaning of the Space aspect. Karkat then says "I DUNNO. BLOOD I GUESS" and describes his feelings on that, comparing his past ideas of Leadership to his current ones in another "I'm not your leader i'm your friend" conversation which we see in both session leaders and Blood/Breath players. But since, in this conversation, their Aspects are both explicitly mentioned, and when Karkat is prompted even though he doesn't really know why, when asked for the thing, the Significant theme in his life which scares him and entices him, he chooses Blood.... It adds more depth and context to what an Aspect actually represents for a person. And a Class too. Since all have many facets. My current theory might be, that an Aspect, in its many, many facets. Some or all, are ones that are most prominent in a person's life and personality. The grand, leading themes that you're kind of drawn to even when you're not trying to. And the thing that, compared to all others, even if You don't know it, you're the best at. The Class, then. Is more about. Think of a person, their likes, dislikes, skills. Everything that makes them Them, when they're feeling the most themself. The Class describes what they need to do to grow into the most Them they can be, even if it's not what society deems to be "Good".

Vriska, before, is many things. She feels regret, pride, sadness, and has a great ego. But I think we can all agree, that even though her Alternate self felt bad, she was heavily influenced by others to be there. She began looking like Meenah, doubting herself, accepting Irrelevance. But when Vriska has been the MOST herself, the most Vriska, it has been when she's been taking the Luck, all of it. In the above conversation with John she talks about finding true strength, not the fakey kind, to do what she needs to do. And that she wants to do it for her friends too, (despite being a very active class) She says verbatim "If I don't do it, who will?". Which also alerts me to the fact that there is far more to the classes than simply abiding by the Active/Passive scale for their Entire context, on a basis of "selfish or not selfish". But all of this leads back into the concept of Ultimate Self. Classpects are consistent across every iteration of a person, so what does that really mean? In an unrelated conversation, I was talking to a friend about Classes and Aspects because they wanted help with finding theirs. And I was talking about Vriska and how messed up her life was and how complex her way of thinking was, shortly after I was explaining how rare and what a special circumstance it is for the Lord class is to exist. Like total and complete force of will, and a Willingness, to completely master their entire aspect. And my friend said "vriska could be a lord" and my first thought (i didn't say this) but it was "But . She isn't though. And she can't be" Nowhere in any universe would Vriska ever be a Lord. Because. She just isn't. She can act like one. She can act controlling and high and mighty above her means. She can be meek, she can be insecure and indecisive. But she will not be acting like Her. She is the Thief of Light, and she will never, and can never be a Lord because it's not a title you achieve, or something you can change, it's just describing what a person is, has be, could be, and will be, at their most Themselves. But that's the key- it's limited in scope with only 168 options for all players who could ever possibly Play the game in all of creation. But it's not a limit, or a restriction. It's not a title you choose, or advance through. It's a title given, based on who you are, fundamentally. That a person (character) earns by virtue of being themselves. To grow into, and through. Rather than anything ranked. All that said, this reminds me, though of like. People as little kids. They are so young, they have all the potential in the world. But even children as young as 4 and 5 and even 3. Some are shy, some are confident, some are brave, some are cautious. Some would prefer to scour as may books that fit on the bookshelf than go to a party. Some kids would rather hang out with their friends than struggle with book stuff. And who they are then, grows into who they become. But the seeds of who they become, and how, are still present even at young ages. Not as a barrier, or a way to hold them back. But just in the sense of... when you really pay attention to a child's personality, it's usually far less of a surprise to see the person they grow into. The same could be said of teenagers and adults. And I think this, or some concept of this, of Self, of being. Something that persists despite all choices and paths, is one of the main concepts in Homestuck relating to the Ultimate Self, And how the Ultimate Self relates to the choosing of Sburb to a Mythological Role. -teapotTrickster

#classpect #classpect analysis #classpecting #vriska serket #kanaya maryam #homestuck analysis #homestuck #mythological role #ultimate self homestuck

[lotarclasspects]

The Heir Class Eludes Me.

In the spirit of making less structured posts, but which are more frequent. I thought I might put my current thoughts and speculations to this public page, so that people who want to come along on this journey with me may benefit from it instead of this sitting in my drafts. I have been reading Homestuck again. And in short (because this isn't the time for that) my theory on Classes matches my theory on Aspects. That, like many things in Homestuck, they are terms for Literary tropes, framed in the context of appearing visually like a Video Game. The Active and Passive pairings do have some credence, but ultimately the root of what a Classpect is supposed to be getting at, is in this understanding. As a result, i've been going over my thoughts on them, and in rereading the comic, reading and analysing things carefully to make sure that my conclusions aren't made from shaky foundations. But I have been pretty confident in my understanding of the Heir Class. Until Now. I have always understood the Heir to be shorthand for "Chosen One Hero", who is helped and protected by their aspect in earlier stages, but who then grow into it and are able to take mastery of it for themselves. Growing into their own shoes as it were. Breath being the aspect of Journey, Quest, and Plot Momentum, it makes sense that Homestuck's "Main Character" John Egbert, has the Breath aspect and is also an Heir. One of the more "Classic Heroes". And we see Heirs of this sort a lot, in fiction and in fairytale. The King Arthur, the Luke Skywalker, The Eragon, The Avatar Aang, The Superman (as opposed to the Batman, who is more martial etc will go into later). But because Homestuck likes to play around with the understanding of these Roles, and has a few dichotomies of "This character Carries this title and is seen as such by others but their Real title is different" eg. Rose and Jade as the "Witch and the Seer" but swapped, and Feferi and Eridan as "The Princess and the Wizard being the Witch and the Prince" I bring this up because whilst a good Heir is easy enough to understand, and recognise in collective Mythos. I reached Equius. Jesus Christ. This guy is Snobby, this guy is Rigid, this man is (in his first introduction) a "Bigger Douche Than Karkat". Controlling over Nepeta, Classist, Weird about Aradia. How the fuck is this guy in the league of Chosen One Heroes do I need to go to square One Here? But then it hit me. Every class and aspect has the capacity for great good or great evil. Even the benevolent healer "Sylph" class (Passive MAKE) has fucking Aranea Serket in it. Whilst "Chosen One Heroes" almost Exclusively are "good" in fiction. What would a shitty evil one look like? Genuinely what the fuck would that look like. Unlike John, who is earnest. And Mituna, who is also quite bubbly, friendly enough, (havent gotten up to that point yet) and made a great sacrifice to save his friends (potential follow up here considering Doc Scratch once implied for John "when he dies, it won't be as a scoundrel") Equius is controlling, rigid. If he is an "heir" as in "future King" he definitely wields that shit about whenever he can to flaunt his superiority. Is "evil king" possibly what we're looking at here? Though Prince is usually reserved for dicky controlling nobles. However as his story progresses, Equius is shown to actually enjoy being "bossed around". Influenced by others, as it were. Positing Aradia (Maid, Heir's counterpart in current theory system) as the secret true leader, whilst he's the On Paper leader. Contrasting the Knight/Seer duo of Karkat and Terezi on the red team. It's fairly established that Maids start out being burdened and stifled by their aspect, have some drastic transformations, before settling back into their role but on their own terms. Maids are also said to "tidy up", Managing their aspect. Equating to both Maid as Maiden and Maid as Servant. I wonder if, if Maids Manage their aspect as the Active conterpart to the Heir, Are Heirs managed BY their aspect?

Could this count in terms of understanding their paths and what their roles mean? Davesprite says of John, that he is easily influenced until he's Not. But is the Not coming from him being a Hero of Breath (notably flighty and hard to pin down) and the influence being him as an Heir? or something else. I'm not sure of Mituna yet but he is definitely used by a lot of people. Perhaps Equius yielding, and enjoying uh. I'll call it "Being Influenced" by people, a way of separating the concepts of His Caste, and His Class? Perhaps though if we are to understand the Blood Classes of alternia as being influenced by Scratch to make it easier for the Players by enforcing Aspect Specific Behaviour onto them, perhaps this too, is true for Classes. Rusts being servants, Ceruleans being stealy generally. Teal being about Law. Who knows. But if this is true perhaps I should try and learn what the Indigo Blue Caste is actually about, and try to differentiate the parts significant to Void, and the parts significant to Heirs. If I do, I'll surely write about them here. Though I don't want to make a definitive Heir specific post until I'm a bit more sure of the thought process here. Come to think of it, Post Scratch John Crocker was "a very carefree guy" for most of his life. Does this link to Breath, or Heirs. hmmmmm.

#classpecting #classpect #heir class #equius #john egbert #classpect analysis

[lotarclasspects]

MY THOUGHTS ON CLASS PART 2

[PART 1 HERE] What I'm unsure of, is whether Heir/Maid or Seer/Mage are the most middling class. the -1,+1. Because those aside, when it comes to Knight/Page and Thief/Rogue, we know those classes are SERVE and STEAL respectively. SERVE as meaning in service of, AND Serving their enemies martially. It's an assumption, but my instinct tells me they're not the most middling classes. Either way you slice it, THIEF/ROGUE or KNIGHT/PAGE would come after Prince. And if that assumption is made, then something is seen on the scale. MAKE and DESTROY are right next to each other on the rungs. And so too would STEAL and SERVE be, regardless of which way they're swapped. And these groups of concepts oppose each other. To take is the opposite of serving. Destroying is the opposite of making. Is having them next to each other on the rungs intentional, and relevant? or Elegant? Either way, it looks balanced. And homestuck really really likes its balance. So instead of a group of Classes which are all individual and unlinked to each other aside from the Counterparts, what we begin to see is groups of Four. Two opposing concepts next to each other, one POSITIVE (abundance of aspect, giving it to people) and one NEGATIVE (Detriment of aspect, destroying or taking it in relation to how its used) Which too, got me thinking. We've known for ages that Princes can tend to appear like they're embodying the opposite aspect because they can Destroy the aspect they have in themselves and others. Dirks harsh cerebral appearance. Eridan. Just all of Eridan. But Thieves too, Vriska believes she has an overabundance of BAD LUCK. For these characters, their relation to their aspect is one of detriment. As opposed to the MAKE and SERVE classes, who kind of match up fairly well. Due to this, it would create KNOW and INHERIT as opposites. or EMBODY whatever Heir/Maid are. In my mind, it garners the picture of people who go and learn vs people who recieve mastery based on right of birth. But I am still learning about the Heir class and trying to break down exactly what it's getting at in another post. to KNOW and to EMBODY are certainly opposite concepts, one implying an outside knowledge and one implying total becoming of it. Either way, they're the only two left. And this is less about me imposing my idea onto this, and me trying to figure out what Hussie was getting at, so I will need to look harder.

But finding out who is at the -1 +1 might be a question of which of these pairs starts out at a detriment, and which has it freely. I don't believe +1 and -1 would imply less Power than any of the other classes, because Activity/Passivity is a pretty nebulous concept anyway, and Calliope despite being the Most Passive, is one of the Most Powerful. so what does -1 +1 mean? Perhaps something special. If Heir was there, John being the Heir of Breath and Jane being the Maid of Life might be a point of significance in terms of class with total possibilities or adaptabilities or something. it's a special number, anyhow. Neither too active or too passive. Who knows. What I do know is, the Active/Passive scale, to me, is a way that Hussie created elegance in their system. And using it comprehensively to determine a class for a character is pretty much useless and ignores the important specificities in role of each class. Which I will go into more at a later date. If you read all of this I'm officially giving you the LOTAR CLASSPECTS Victoria Cross Medal of Honour And if this stuff seems unsure, there is a level of confidence I have about my classifications due to me posting them, such as Sylph/Witch and Maid/Heir which i'm VERY confident about. But I can also admit which specificities I'm not sure about yet, and I don't want anyone to take information I'm not sure of and believe it's fact. Until I'm confident about its probability of being fact or something. But that's at a future date probably. I also included all of this here because making individual class posts will take some time and anyone wanting the rundown of How i got here can just take it if they want. more to come -teapotTrickster

#classpect #lotarclasspects #classpect analysis #classpects

[lotarclasspects]

MY CURRENT THEORIES ON CLASS

I say current, because this Blog is partially now serving as a record of my ideas and research on these topics. But in short, due to the past few weeks of thinking about it, I have come up with an idea of the full ACTIVE-/PASSIVE+ SCALE. With some other things of note.

(+7)Muse = RULE (+6)Sylph = MAKE + (+5)Bard = DESTROY - (+4)Page = SERVE + (+3)Rogue = STEAL - (+2)Seer = KNOW + (+1)Heir = INHERIT -

(-1)Maid = INHERIT - (-2)Mage = KNOW + (-3)Thief = STEAL - (-4)Knight = SERVE + (-5)Prince = DESTROY - (-6)Witch = MAKE + (-7)Lord = RULE For the classpect savvy reader, you may notice a few things. 1. Sylph and Witch are listed as counterparts 2. Maid and Heir are listed as counterparts. 3. What's all those mathematical symbols on the side what the fuck All will be explained

[[MORE]] For many years, in the classpecting community, there has been an idea that Witch/Heir and Sylph/Maid are the pairings. And that these verbs are MANIPULATE and CREATE. However, understanding and thinking about the concept of Classes being based off literary tropes and archetypes, I disagree. MAKE, like SERVE, has a double meaning. MAKE as in To Create, and To Manipulate, in a single word. Concurrently, I agree and believe in the idea that influence, particularly ancestral influence from a Guardian, can affect how a character acts. how Vriska imitated Mindfang and dressed as a fairy. But I'm getting a little ahead of myself here. But to dial further ahead, before I dial back, whilst Maids are said to be "made of" their aspect, characters involved in the "MAKE HER PAY" flash, and who tend to "MAKE" things happen. Are either Sylphs or Witches. Or the dancestors of Sylphs or Witches. Aradia and Vriska are both the dancestors of the Witch of Time, and Sylph of Light. And "Meddlesome McFussyfangs" herself is a Sylph of Space.

But that's getting Really Really ahead of myself, so now we're dialing back for real. You'll notice, that each of these classes, aside from having a passive or active counterpart, also has a class next to it which has a very related Verb. I will clarify which ones are canon and which are not. We know that Witch is the most Active Class before the Lord. We know that Heir is a passive class. We know that Seer is also a passive class. We know that Prince and Bard are active and passive counterparts respectfully, and that they are of the verb "DESTROY". And the Prince is the most Active class before the Witch. We know that Muse and Lord are counterparts. We know that Thief and Rogue are an active and passive pair, as well. With the verb "STEAL", and have no gender specific affinity. (I will get into this more) We know that the verb of the Knight and the Page is "SERVE" (it is heavily, heavily implied many times) We know the verb of the Seer is "KNOW", or in Aradia's words "a seer knows their aspect comprehensively" My conclusions in creating this list, at these rankings, are thus: We know there is group of four classes, one of which is STEAL and one of which is SERVE. There is also a pair which takes DESTROY. Knowing Homestuck's affinity for balance, especially around the concepts of Destruction and Creation, it bodes well to assume there is also a pair of classes which are linked to Creation. And due to the masculine affinity of Prince and Bard (alongside Hussie's harsh theories on masculinity in the first place), suffice to say these classes are also femininely skewed. Unlike the classes themselves, it seems that the Verbs don't need to necessarily have a single syllable. Otherwise "DESTROY" might have been classified elegantly as "BREAK", but it isn't. Therefore when thinking about what the other verbs might be, they needn't necessarily fit into a restrictive modus. Sylph is also explicitly in canon, By Kanaya, described as "Being a Witch but more Magical". She goes back on this, but it's not clear whether it's the link between Sylph and Witch which is inaccurate, or whether it's the descriptive term of "magical" which she regrets. I have further reasoning to supplement this, but to keep things brief in this section, I concluded that Sylph and Witch are also probably a pair. If Witch is the most Active class before Lord, then Sylph must be the most passive class before Muse. After it being Bard, after Witch being Prince. And since characters either with the titles of Sylph and Witch themselves, or with Ancestors bearing the titles of Sylph and Witch involved in many a flash titled "MAKE (thing happen)". I thought on the double meaning of SERVE. And realised to MAKE is to create, And to manipulate. Linking the two concepts, including the "Manipulate" title the Witch has held in fanon thought for many years, and put them under one umbrella. So we have Prince/Bard DESTROY Sylph/Witch MAKE. Cool. For reasons I will go into on a more Maid/Heir explanatory post, is that both have major themes of Inheritance. I've put, in lieu, on this as "INHERIT". Though "EMBODY" might also be appropriate, it's difficult to discern at this time. And since Seer is the passive "KNOW" class, and Mage is the equivalent of "Prophet" as described by sollux, for reasons I will supplement in a Mage/Seer specific post is that Mage must then be the Active "KNOW" class.

[PART 2 NEXT POST TOO LONG FOR THIS APP]

#classpect #classpect analysis #classpecting

[lotarclasspects]

Okay I have to continue this Blog

Hello everyone still following me, it has been just short of 8 million years since I last actually put any activity on this old thing. For a variety of reasons. I've been delving into Classpecting since the far off year of 2015 and it is now 2024. Jesus where did all that time go. My absence was due to a number of reasons. Time, other things. Life. And keeping up an ancient classpecting blog wasn't really on the top of my to do list. It kind of has never been, this blog has always been very sporadic. But something changed. I had an interesting dream.

Despite always being kind of on the DL, every few months or years I get back in to classpecting again, for the very reason I got into it in the first place. I am not actually, the Seer of Mind (probably) In truth, I still, after 9 years, do not actually know what mine is. Of course I've had theories. Lots of theories. But every single one of them lead back to two main points 1. It's always been easier for me to read other people than it has been to read myself 2. I did not, for many years, actually know what the fuck Classpects, Mythological Roles, were supposed to be. And of course, if you make a conclusion based off a shaky foundation of evidence, one cannot be surprised about it changing in the future. But what has always fascinated me about Classes and Aspects are that in a story which is filled to the brim with ideas of choices and actions and there being a million ways one can live a life, different choices resulting in entirely different relationships and roles etc etc... The Classpect Never changes. Over the course of an entire lifetime, in every alternate timeline, in every universe. A character is born with it. And a character Dies with it. It is supposed to encapsulate not just a character's current standing or current choices, but represents a blanket definition for all of their growth, their entire arc. Do they need to become more Active to realise their best self, learn to step back? Learn to be in control? The Classpect, even if they're not there yet, represents the core of who they are. It goes hand in hand with the Epilogues' idea of the Ultimate Self. However in our world this is just a silly classification system from a very wonderful and complex piece of fiction. And we're real people and we don't have arcs. Hence my true class and aspect have eluded me. But that won't stop me from trying. I've been reading Homestuck again, and making more theories, and putting them all in a weird little private discord channel and talking about them to my friends who've barely read the thing and I've decided that even if my posts are briefer than they've been in the past or are less essay-ish. Perhaps someone will benefit from my take on the Wonderful World of Homestuck Classes and Aspects t.m. I mean why not, right?

But another thing that has changed, is that I firmly believe, that even if it isn't stated outright, all the evidence we need to fill the gaps in our collective knowledge, is in the text. If not outright stated, it can be inferred, or it is implied by another character. There have been many assumptions made in the classpecting community, and theories and analyses built upon those assumptions. Which is fine. But my personal theories have long since drifted from the mainline fanon collective (sparked by my ancient fued with Inversion Theory) but perhaps they would help diversify the current climate and spark more conversations. I guess that's also my goal. In the end, since Classes and Aspects are in a story and we're real people, you can choose anything you'd like for yourself. But if you'd like to hear my take... follow I guess?

(More posts to come)

-teapotTrickster

[lotarclasspects]

So, this is how I’ve come to understand the ultimate self.

Correct me if I’m wrong. But, think of it like this.

You take one generator and use it to power four power outlits, so now each outlit is getting ¼th of the overall power from the generator. Each outlit has a great potental for the power it can deliver to the device plugged in, bit there’s only so much electricity it can provide. But when you start plugging one device into mutiple outlits you increase the potental electricity delivered to that device. When you plug said device into all the outlits, it reaches the max electrical potental cor the generator itself.

So, think of Dirk as the generator. There is one Dirk, the origional Dirk, spread out across mutiple timelines. Each of those timelines, or outlits, can only draw so much of the power coming from the source. But when one Dirk decides to draw from another Dirk, he begins seeing what the full potental of the origional Dirk might be. Once he has plugged in to every timeline, he becomes the ultimate Dirk. Equal in power to the origional Dirk, but now at his full electrical potental.

Rose said that the ultimate self does not make you more power, but it expands the limits of your power. I think this is what she ment by that statement.

[lotarclasspects]

If forgot to mention that, where the Good vs “Essential” thing comes up again is with Dirk and Calliope. Dirk wants to do what he sees as “Right”. Influencing people so his friends get into positions of power... Jake falling in love with him again... But these are the machinations of a narcissitic narrator. If he is controlling their reality, everyone has to live with what he deems to be the best outcome. However with Calliope she believes in doing minimal influence. Allowing the characters to express themselves, and only giving them slight nudges in order to slightly push essential things in the right direction. Essential also being relative, because if the narrator has an influence over the thoughts and actions of characters... It shows that you can influence a story without being controlling but people can also write to further their own agendas. Also the reason the Candy world was so difference was because Alive Callie made john go bust out Gamzee. The Bard of Rage, aka the reason why everyone stopped fighting in the game over timeline, and the reason why everyone became so passive and happy in the candy version is he literally was passivley getting rid of their anger.

The Homestuck Epilogue and Analysis of the Text as a Whole (brief)

EPILOGUE SPOILERS AHEAD 

As many of you in this fandom have recently born witness to: The Epilogue is finally here. It begins with a prologue, with John being disillusioned from the world and Rose telling him that him going back is essential. In the beginning of the story we are introduced to the idea of things which, viewed from the lens of the greater story, are not necessarily measured in terms of one person’s moral stand point of “Good” or “Bad”, rather Essential and Inessential. This is the axis upon which Vriska turns, this is the path of events which Rose can see, and this is the stage upon which the conflict of our two Narrators comes to pass.

To understand the Epilogue, we must first, briefly, summarise some of the core themes of Homestuck. These, in short being: The Agency of the Characters, The Narrative itself as the Villian, and the meaning of Freedom. 

We will begin with the meaning of Freedom. What it means to be Home Stuck. Homestuck is not named simply as a joke about the start of the story, but its name rings true as an abstract way of representing the main objective of its characters. To win, and be at peace in the new Universe. For you see, much like Problem Sleuth, they only leave the house at the very end. But this only makes sense if you understand the Symbols because as Rose Lalonde, Seer of Light, One who Understands the Narrative’s Focus, explains: “The symbols holdall the power”. As you are probably all aware, the entire story focuses on the fates of the characters as they toil through the Alpha Timeline. As we later learn, this “timeline” is not the one which leads to the most fortuitous outcome, nor is it one which allows all characters to have equal relevance or fulfillment. It is simply an extremely specific series of events which allows the main villian of the Text, Lord English, to exist, take pleasure in his wanton destruction, and then die and be reborn all in a circuitous loop. Sure, the kids “Stop” Lord English in the end, but their Victory is more defined by their escape from their terrible, dire, and tragic situation. They enter their “Roles” by way of Sburb, which is symbolised by a House. A human house, a troll house, it doesn’t matter. It ends with them escaping through the door never to be truly seen in the comic again. They finally leave The House, and by House I mean the Narrative, which for the purposes of this examination is essentially interchangeable with Lord English himself, because in truth that’s what he represents. 

Lord English is the main villian of homestuck, but what he represents is a core theme of understanding the story. Lord English’s character design is essentially made to be a charicature of Andrew Hussie himself, the worst, most vulgar and horrible parts of his prior works. Gamzee, shitty clowns, Equius: Horses, Dirk, the narcissism and stuckupishness of his own narration, and Caliborn. The “Tortured Artist” who complains that “Internet Teens” don’t understand his “Masterpiece”. Sound familiar? But he also represents the Narrative itself. The awful cycle which the characters are subjected to suffer in. the Lord of Time itself is a classpect which means “One who Controls Time, One who controls Others with Time, and One who controls Endings, the wrapping up of plot threads, and Certainty” Which is exactly what the Alpha Timeline is. Lord English is representative of a DM, or storyteller who insists that everything must be done THEIR way, who is rigid and controlling about what they WANT to happen being what HAS to happen and any deviation of the sort will either be not allowed or punished. Therefore, the villian representing this shows a core theme and belief of the story. That controllers and rigid authoritarian storytellers are something evil. Theyre the bad guys here. On the flip side, The Rigid Authour’s nemesis in the end is the Muse of Space, Calliope. Someone who “Inspires others with her Creations, Inspires Creation, or Is inspired By creation, expansion, worldbuilding, and co-operation.” She is a caricature of the Fandom. Who desires collaboration and working together. This is a core element of SBURB, that a good session (Which in and of itself borrows themes from both GAMES and STORIES) can only happen from a collaboration and understanding between individuals. This is a core element of the Epilogue. 

Now, to understand how this all ties into the Epilogue, it first needs to be understood how fucking Meta homestuck is, and WHY the Narrative is the villian. It’s because, for a story to happen, the characters must suffer. Endure drama, heartache, weird adventures. Because otherwise there would be no story. Kevin from Home Alone gets left behind every year. If he was a real child, he’d probably need therapy about that in his older years, but Kevin is not allowed to have a happy, non abandoned christmas, because then they wouldn’t be able to make any more Home Alone’s. So Kevin has to suffer for the Narrative to continue in its existence. Precisely the fact why Homestuck ended where we couldn’t see them walk through the door. If we were to see that, then they wouldn’t truly be free of the narrative because the sole ability for us to be able to witness that would mean they’re still trapped. This is why the credits are in the format of Snap Chat. It allows the audience to have a small window into their lives whilst showing they’ve truly escaped and are allowed to live like real people.

But here again comes our problem. For the Epilogue to exist as a compelling story, the characters would have to experience conflict for that to happen. But the Epilogue does something interesting. It formats it in the style of a Fan Fiction. Because whilst Homestuck plays with the ideas of how restricting a story would be if the characters were real people, the Epilogue plays with the idea of what is, and is not Real to a story in the first place. What can be considered “ Canon”, and does that really matter. In the Meat and Candy halves, as referenced by Dave later on in the Candy section, when you flip a coin, in the short instant before it falls the two offshoots of the result of that perfectly equal choice come to exist. This was the nature of Calliope asking John which he wanted to pick. By doing so, she gave the opportunity for an alternate version of himself to live where he would die and so forth. The John who ate the Meat may have died but by doing so allowed all of creation to continue. Even though he didn’t get what he thought he wanted, he died in a relationship with terezi after his life had meaning again. Candy john got what he wanted. A relationship with Roxy. He got to live. But these things, in the end were not what he’d hoped them to be. His other self got to be with terezi. The same is true for the other characters. Karkat lost the presidency in Meat, but in Candy he proved he’d make an excellent leader. In Meat, Davekat became canon, but in Candy dave lived to be romantically unfilfilled but he got to meet Obama and achieve an ultimate catharsis of the self.

But the thing is, these choices, in a sense ARE perfectly equal. There is no evidence in the Narrative, that one is inherently more Canon than the other, because it is directly stated that they both exist outside of Canon. If both exist outside of Canon but are not Fanon are they both True? Or is truth relative. I believe that the Epilogue was a way of seeing what reality would bring to these characters, whilst filling out two different paths. One where they got something and one where they didn’t. And this also comes to the sub plot of the battle of the two narrators. As Calliope mentions in Candy, when it becomes obvious that the speaker had an agenda you begin to wonder whether it simply came to light who the speaker was or if they had been using their subtle passive influence all along. We barely even notice in Meat, because Dirk’s typing quirk is identical to the quirk used by Andrew Hussie himself. Whether he is simply an alternate version of Dirk Strider in canon… up for debate. But this also begs the question. If the stories are outside of Canon, and the Authour can change, then who is the executive on saying what happens and doesnt? The Epilogues are explorations. Not closures, but exploring what would happen in situations. It offers the idea that anyone could narrate about a series of events happening outside of canon,and it would be just as feasible and valuable as anything else outside of Canon. Therefore… Your fan fictions have just as much narrative Truth as those, and if those had some truth at all then do yours also? Or if your own stories are false then so are they. These are not meant to be taken as the “missing link” of the end of Homestuck, but simply filling a gap where a prior hole has already been filled. The end of the story seemed to have the characters so briefly meet but here it was FILLED TO THE BRIM with dialogues. So take of it what you will, because in the end, what it meant by “Above the Line, All is true and below it is all things which are insignificant” means that literally whatever you imagine could happen has an equal chance of happening in another “Outside of Canon” timeline. But what it meant by “The Important and the Unimportant will never again meet” is that Homestuck itself will never explore these things. That was it. What happens next… Is up to all of you.

-The Knight of Breath

[lotarclasspects]

The Homestuck Epilogue and Analysis of the Text as a Whole (brief)

EPILOGUE SPOILERS AHEAD 

As many of you in this fandom have recently born witness to: The Epilogue is finally here. It begins with a prologue, with John being disillusioned from the world and Rose telling him that him going back is essential. In the beginning of the story we are introduced to the idea of things which, viewed from the lens of the greater story, are not necessarily measured in terms of one person’s moral stand point of “Good” or “Bad”, rather Essential and Inessential. This is the axis upon which Vriska turns, this is the path of events which Rose can see, and this is the stage upon which the conflict of our two Narrators comes to pass.

To understand the Epilogue, we must first, briefly, summarise some of the core themes of Homestuck. These, in short being: The Agency of the Characters, The Narrative itself as the Villian, and the meaning of Freedom. 

We will begin with the meaning of Freedom. What it means to be Home Stuck. Homestuck is not named simply as a joke about the start of the story, but its name rings true as an abstract way of representing the main objective of its characters. To win, and be at peace in the new Universe. For you see, much like Problem Sleuth, they only leave the house at the very end. But this only makes sense if you understand the Symbols because as Rose Lalonde, Seer of Light, One who Understands the Narrative’s Focus, explains: “The symbols holdall the power”. As you are probably all aware, the entire story focuses on the fates of the characters as they toil through the Alpha Timeline. As we later learn, this “timeline” is not the one which leads to the most fortuitous outcome, nor is it one which allows all characters to have equal relevance or fulfillment. It is simply an extremely specific series of events which allows the main villian of the Text, Lord English, to exist, take pleasure in his wanton destruction, and then die and be reborn all in a circuitous loop. Sure, the kids “Stop” Lord English in the end, but their Victory is more defined by their escape from their terrible, dire, and tragic situation. They enter their “Roles” by way of Sburb, which is symbolised by a House. A human house, a troll house, it doesn’t matter. It ends with them escaping through the door never to be truly seen in the comic again. They finally leave The House, and by House I mean the Narrative, which for the purposes of this examination is essentially interchangeable with Lord English himself, because in truth that’s what he represents. 

Lord English is the main villian of homestuck, but what he represents is a core theme of understanding the story. Lord English’s character design is essentially made to be a charicature of Andrew Hussie himself, the worst, most vulgar and horrible parts of his prior works. Gamzee, shitty clowns, Equius: Horses, Dirk, the narcissism and stuckupishness of his own narration, and Caliborn. The “Tortured Artist” who complains that “Internet Teens” don’t understand his “Masterpiece”. Sound familiar? But he also represents the Narrative itself. The awful cycle which the characters are subjected to suffer in. the Lord of Time itself is a classpect which means “One who Controls Time, One who controls Others with Time, and One who controls Endings, the wrapping up of plot threads, and Certainty” Which is exactly what the Alpha Timeline is. Lord English is representative of a DM, or storyteller who insists that everything must be done THEIR way, who is rigid and controlling about what they WANT to happen being what HAS to happen and any deviation of the sort will either be not allowed or punished. Therefore, the villian representing this shows a core theme and belief of the story. That controllers and rigid authoritarian storytellers are something evil. Theyre the bad guys here. On the flip side, The Rigid Authour’s nemesis in the end is the Muse of Space, Calliope. Someone who “Inspires others with her Creations, Inspires Creation, or Is inspired By creation, expansion, worldbuilding, and co-operation.” She is a caricature of the Fandom. Who desires collaboration and working together. This is a core element of SBURB, that a good session (Which in and of itself borrows themes from both GAMES and STORIES) can only happen from a collaboration and understanding between individuals. This is a core element of the Epilogue. 

Now, to understand how this all ties into the Epilogue, it first needs to be understood how fucking Meta homestuck is, and WHY the Narrative is the villian. It’s because, for a story to happen, the characters must suffer. Endure drama, heartache, weird adventures. Because otherwise there would be no story. Kevin from Home Alone gets left behind every year. If he was a real child, he’d probably need therapy about that in his older years, but Kevin is not allowed to have a happy, non abandoned christmas, because then they wouldn’t be able to make any more Home Alone’s. So Kevin has to suffer for the Narrative to continue in its existence. Precisely the fact why Homestuck ended where we couldn’t see them walk through the door. If we were to see that, then they wouldn’t truly be free of the narrative because the sole ability for us to be able to witness that would mean they’re still trapped. This is why the credits are in the format of Snap Chat. It allows the audience to have a small window into their lives whilst showing they’ve truly escaped and are allowed to live like real people.

But here again comes our problem. For the Epilogue to exist as a compelling story, the characters would have to experience conflict for that to happen. But the Epilogue does something interesting. It formats it in the style of a Fan Fiction. Because whilst Homestuck plays with the ideas of how restricting a story would be if the characters were real people, the Epilogue plays with the idea of what is, and is not Real to a story in the first place. What can be considered “ Canon”, and does that really matter. In the Meat and Candy halves, as referenced by Dave later on in the Candy section, when you flip a coin, in the short instant before it falls the two offshoots of the result of that perfectly equal choice come to exist. This was the nature of Calliope asking John which he wanted to pick. By doing so, she gave the opportunity for an alternate version of himself to live where he would die and so forth. The John who ate the Meat may have died but by doing so allowed all of creation to continue. Even though he didn’t get what he thought he wanted, he died in a relationship with terezi after his life had meaning again. Candy john got what he wanted. A relationship with Roxy. He got to live. But these things, in the end were not what he’d hoped them to be. His other self got to be with terezi. The same is true for the other characters. Karkat lost the presidency in Meat, but in Candy he proved he’d make an excellent leader. In Meat, Davekat became canon, but in Candy dave lived to be romantically unfilfilled but he got to meet Obama and achieve an ultimate catharsis of the self.

But the thing is, these choices, in a sense ARE perfectly equal. There is no evidence in the Narrative, that one is inherently more Canon than the other, because it is directly stated that they both exist outside of Canon. If both exist outside of Canon but are not Fanon are they both True? Or is truth relative. I believe that the Epilogue was a way of seeing what reality would bring to these characters, whilst filling out two different paths. One where they got something and one where they didn’t. And this also comes to the sub plot of the battle of the two narrators. As Calliope mentions in Candy, when it becomes obvious that the speaker had an agenda you begin to wonder whether it simply came to light who the speaker was or if they had been using their subtle passive influence all along. We barely even notice in Meat, because Dirk’s typing quirk is identical to the quirk used by Andrew Hussie himself. Whether he is simply an alternate version of Dirk Strider in canon... up for debate. But this also begs the question. If the stories are outside of Canon, and the Authour can change, then who is the executive on saying what happens and doesnt? The Epilogues are explorations. Not closures, but exploring what would happen in situations. It offers the idea that anyone could narrate about a series of events happening outside of canon,and it would be just as feasible and valuable as anything else outside of Canon. Therefore... Your fan fictions have just as much narrative Truth as those, and if those had some truth at all then do yours also? Or if your own stories are false then so are they. These are not meant to be taken as the “missing link” of the end of Homestuck, but simply filling a gap where a prior hole has already been filled. The end of the story seemed to have the characters so briefly meet but here it was FILLED TO THE BRIM with dialogues. So take of it what you will, because in the end, what it meant by “Above the Line, All is true and below it is all things which are insignificant” means that literally whatever you imagine could happen has an equal chance of happening in another “Outside of Canon” timeline. But what it meant by “The Important and the Unimportant will never again meet” is that Homestuck itself will never explore these things. That was it. What happens next... Is up to all of you.

-The Knight of Breath

#Homestuck #Homestuck Epilogue #Epilogue #upd8 #Homestuck Analysis #Homestuck theory #homestuck epilogue theory

[lotarclasspects]

i feel like bard wouldn’t suit them though, as bards tend to destroy either unknowingly or with their sheer presence rather than outright action. Gamzees influence upon the pre game over session was that of people not really having it in them to fight... and Cronus being such a douchebag it makes you get mad at him. But this is their passive influence. Not all passive classes are as... well Passive as this. But in any case i don’t think Bard would suit Kris. Mind however would be an interesting argument in a game of Hearts and Souls. Mind is of course the choices a character makes which leads to a specific outcome but the format of deltarune lacks this. Undertales system is BASED upon this and thus is also very Mindy. I think we currently don’t know enough info about Kris themself to be able to determine a classpect. Knight of Breath i chose cause of how Kris is shown to lead or “have to” lead in their game. Like when you select ACT with Ralsei or Susie it’s said that Kris is actually commanding them to say actions. Sure we the player select which is which but ultimately Kris themself is placed at the helm of their team regardless of our influence. We didn’t act to give them such a title... it was assigned. Also Kris exhibits behaviour which can be considered creepy by other monsters but this inherently isn’t enough to determine a Title. Knight also fits their actions of protecting Susie from the Kings attack on their own without our help and bowing when Lancers life was threatened. One who protects and leads through direction in order to reach a specific goal sounds very much like Kris in the Dark World to me at least and it also sounds Knight of Breathy. There are other classes which exhibit protectory natures such as Sylph and Maid, however Sylphs are more guides and healers and have problems with control and when to release it, and Maids always usually have many physical transformations which show their growth and metamorphosis. Knights also tend to hide themselves... not always out of insecurity but sometimes stoicism and to get a point across about who they perceive themselves to be aka Latula and Karkat and this could be shown through the covering of Kris’s eyes.

but that’s just a theory

a Game Theor-

(Lotar found dead outside an Ice-e-‘s Pezza)

(((also if anything it’s Ralsei who discourages Susie from leaving, it’s they who pushes the hero narrative... it’s they who constantly presses the others into choosing pacifism... and it’s them who scolds Susie on being Un Heroic and all. But in any case... such a strict requirement of rules in a world with the illusion of choice sounds like SBURBS alpha timeline... ruled by a Lord. Perhaps if Ralsei is in command of the world as in prior theory i have THEY could be the Lord of Mind... or Time?)))

I need someone that’s good at god tiers and has played Delta Rune to tell me what the god tiers for Ralsei, Kris, and Susie are

[lotarclasspects]

What youre describing with Suzie is prime behaiour of the Prince Class ie Dirk and Eridan noteably. Their goal is to channel their destructive power away from the things which benefit them and against the things which stand against them... which she does. If she were a page she would have traits of being naieve or unworldly which Susie is not.

Ralsei fits the archetype of a guide. He Knows things. He is a healer and gives information. These are primary definitions of a Sylph but going along my theory of who Ralsei really is this may be a front. (if Ralsei is Chara then i surmise theyd be a Muse or Lord)

Kris is dressed as a Knight and demonstrates leaderly and protector like behaviour which they need to get used to but ultimatley are good at so id say theyre a Knight. 

Susie is indeed focused on escapism rather than healing whats there which is Rage behaviour as her primary desire is to Leave, she seems to be a pessimist and encourages bad behaviour but in doing so actually fosters teamwork and hope. Therefore the Prince of Rage could suit her well. 

Ralsei being Hope would be a good contrast and it seems to suit them as the Sylph of Hope

The game of Deltarune is group and team oriented as opposed to the singular adventure Undertale. These two games are a primary example of the difference between Blood (deltarune) and Breath (UNDERTALE). Undertale wherein youre the Main Protagonist and even though youre kind and pick up allies easily, theyre assistants to your main, primary objective. Deltarune is moreso about the direction and conducting of a team but use of Kris directing and inspiring others. However... since they do more direct action like ordering Suzie to spare this could also be a Breath trait... and since in Undertale you inspire others around you with your presence that could be reminiscient of Blood but i believe the peotag of that game to be Time or Heart... and not a Knight. 

Karkat is a Knight of Blood but even though in the beginning he ordered people around it didnt work. Its only when he was standing WITH his allies and leading with his presence did he achieve his title. a Knight of Breath would have to grow into directing and leading people to an end goal. Therefore Kris could be a Knight of Blood or a Knight of Breath i presume... if we think of the card world as a sort of Quest Planet. 

Another idea for Kris is a Knight of Heart... one who protects and leads through use of The Soul... but i suppose it depends on how literally you want to take it. I personally think Knight of Blood or Breath fits them well enough.

hope this also helped

I need someone that’s good at god tiers and has played Delta Rune to tell me what the god tiers for Ralsei, Kris, and Susie are

[lotarclasspects]

Not to mention... All monster sprites in the game in the chat box are White. Monochromatic. Whether that’s cause magic is white is question to reason... but Ralsei’s sprite is always shown in colour. This isn’t because they’re in the dark world either: as Susie is always shown in monster white.

Another thing to add... if Ralsei is truly a darker... why doesn’t he look like a game piece. Every character from the dark world is based a game. Cards, Chess, Jigsaws, Stuffed Animals... all can be considered toys... in a game meant to be played with. But that begs the question... who’s playing with us?

Ralsei states he’s a Prince of the dark but if he truly was a Darker why is he a supposed Boss Monster at the end of the game? If he was a monster why would he lie to us? And why... when Susie and Kris reach the Fountain... isn’t he there with us to seal it?

(not to mention Kris (implied to be Chara) asked when their horns were going to grow in and wore a pair of devil horns. Naturally they’d choose to be a Boss Monster in a world they could control. Ralsei’s motif of having a disguise under a disguise...

Yeet

DELTARUNE THEORY

Now this isn’t classpects but since it’s a very homestuck game by Toby Fox i thought i’d get my thoughts out

SPOILERS FOR DELTARUNE

if you’ve played undertale and want to play the new game download it at deltarune.com

don’t read this if you haven’t finished DR

OK

so first off… this game is interesting… to say the least. I believe an understanding of Undertale is needed before you play Deltarune because of its callbacks but also it’s themes. Undertale begins and has a huge theme of your choices mattering, shaping the game. However in Deltarune… it is stated at the very beginning that “your choices don’t matter”. The game begins with the text in the style of Chara or The Fallen Human who: in the Genocide Run, is shown to be a violent and “creepy” individual with selfish qualities: meant to exemplify the worst type of determination, the type wherein you go down every sluggish road and disregard characters to get every outcome of a game. Anyway… the game starts with the Red Soul and the text obviously to indicate Chara. At the end of the Genocide route… Chara is said to have taken your soul or you giving it to them. I haven’t played this only seen it. First off in Deltarune, after the speech from Chara it is said that your choices don’t matter. The Player then begins as “Kris” a human child of Toriel and Asgore. Just as Deltarune is an anagram of Undertale… Kris can be made of the letters of Frisk which is revealed to be the current humans real name in UT. Kris has yellow skin and dark hair same as frisk but wears the same outfit as Chara. Perhaps showing them to be a child of the Dreemurrs.

Their side of the room is blank and empty with just a cage in the corner upon a red wagon. The most notable thing however about this game is that it “appears” to take place after the pacifist ending wherein the monsters return to The Surface. You begin the game where UT pacifist ends… a bedroom in Toriels house. However through the game it becomes more and more obvious that this is not indeed the world you left behind. The characters are a bit different… Alphys and Undyne dont know each other… Asgore is said to be Kris’s father… but most notably: Asriel is Alive.

Asriel Dreemurr aka Flowey is absent in the whole game but is said to have gone to University. Asriel became a flower after the pacifist ending and even so vowed never to return.

So this is obviously a different place or time. Perhaps a world where monsters never had to go underground…

the main part of the game starts when Kris goes to the school where Toriel and Alphys work and they and their bully: Susie, fall down into a world ruled by card suits very Alice In Wonderland style. What’s interesting about this is that… the entire thing looks and feels like an Undertale AU. Or like an Undertale rip-off game. This isn’t just a sequel… it’s the same but instead of a single character driving the story it focuses on a team dynamic. The heroes are prophesied to close a “fountain” in a place where creatures have been imprisoned by their kind and befriend people along the way… wacky characters culminating in a fight with a King wielding a long red weapon… except instead of Humans and Monsters it’s Lightners and Darkers aka those that live in the light and those that live in the dark style. The human and monster meet up with a “Prince of This Realm” named Raseli which is an obvious anagram for Asriel. However Asriel already exists in this time. In UT: when flowey first introduced himself its as “The Prince of this worlds future” which is a fitting parallel but apparently this new friend says he’s a darkness prince. The new prophecy states that a human, a monster, and a prince of the dark will save the realm. this is assumed to be Raseli until we meet Prince Lancer, the son of the King of Spades. In the end it’s Lancer that unites people to take the King down. So if the prophecy is talking about him, susie, and Kris… who is Rasiel? My theory: Chara Dreemurr

Rasiel has a lot of parallels to Flowey. However in this game he actually gives you a decent tutorial… always encouraging you to finish fights peacefully as opposed to flowey saying “kill or be killed” and wanting you to murder. Raseli is always very cheery which sometimes honestly seems like a front. He always seems to know what the characters in the game are feeling such as when he says “the dog looks sad” in a narrating way when susie remarks “no it doesn’t” and it’s true… it doesn’t. So how could a simple darker know more than others who are seeing the same thing. Why does Raseli look and feel more like a self insert OC than all the others? Why is this game like a fan game of Undertale? Why does their shirt have a black heart upon it like there is a void in their outfit where a SOUL should be? Why are they smiling? Why is their primary colour green? Why are they the exact same height and build as Kris? Why is it shown they’re wearing a disguise under their first disguise? and why when they’re “unmasked” are they a Boss Monster like the dreemurrs? It’s Chara. It would also link back to the beginning of the game. The opposite of Asriel. In the end of the Genocide Route they remark they have full control over the world. If Asriel made himself powerful with wings why wouldn’t Chara make themself into a helpful guide? Not only that… it explains why the whole thing feels like a worse version of Undertale with some of the endings feeling purposefully forced like “everyone’s come to meet you” and every dark creature literally gathers in the last 3 room in tne end even when you haven’t befriended the darkness creatures nearly as much as the monsters in UT. Also when you meet Raseli they say they’re the last of their people but no other creatures like raseli are seen. Almost all dark creatures are based on cards and chess and other games but Raseli isn’t. They also have the Chara Smile which is hard to see under the glasses but once you see the silhouette…

yeah…

In any case… i believe Chara is behind all this and that somehow they’ve taken control of this timeline so the war never happened, in a bid to torment the player? in order to make their dream world where asriel and them grew up together happily on the surface and went to school? Who knows. This is my theory anyway. Food for thought i guess

[lotarclasspects]

DELTARUNE THEORY

Now this isn’t classpects but since it’s a very homestuck game by Toby Fox i thought i’d get my thoughts out

SPOILERS FOR DELTARUNE

if you’ve played undertale and want to play the new game download it at deltarune.com

don’t read this if you haven’t finished DR

OK

so first off... this game is interesting... to say the least. I believe an understanding of Undertale is needed before you play Deltarune because of its callbacks but also it’s themes. Undertale begins and has a huge theme of your choices mattering, shaping the game. However in Deltarune... it is stated at the very beginning that “your choices don’t matter”. The game begins with the text in the style of Chara or The Fallen Human who: in the Genocide Run, is shown to be a violent and “creepy” individual with selfish qualities: meant to exemplify the worst type of determination, the type wherein you go down every sluggish road and disregard characters to get every outcome of a game. Anyway... the game starts with the Red Soul and the text obviously to indicate Chara. At the end of the Genocide route... Chara is said to have taken your soul or you giving it to them. I haven’t played this only seen it. First off in Deltarune, after the speech from Chara it is said that your choices don’t matter. The Player then begins as “Kris” a human child of Toriel and Asgore. Just as Deltarune is an anagram of Undertale... Kris can be made of the letters of Frisk which is revealed to be the current humans real name in UT. Kris has yellow skin and dark hair same as frisk but wears the same outfit as Chara. Perhaps showing them to be a child of the Dreemurrs.

Their side of the room is blank and empty with just a cage in the corner upon a red wagon. The most notable thing however about this game is that it “appears” to take place after the pacifist ending wherein the monsters return to The Surface. You begin the game where UT pacifist ends... a bedroom in Toriels house. However through the game it becomes more and more obvious that this is not indeed the world you left behind. The characters are a bit different... Alphys and Undyne dont know each other... Asgore is said to be Kris’s father... but most notably: Asriel is Alive.

Asriel Dreemurr aka Flowey is absent in the whole game but is said to have gone to University. Asriel became a flower after the pacifist ending and even so vowed never to return.

So this is obviously a different place or time. Perhaps a world where monsters never had to go underground...

the main part of the game starts when Kris goes to the school where Toriel and Alphys work and they and their bully: Susie, fall down into a world ruled by card suits very Alice In Wonderland style. What’s interesting about this is that... the entire thing looks and feels like an Undertale AU. Or like an Undertale rip-off game. This isn’t just a sequel... it’s the same but instead of a single character driving the story it focuses on a team dynamic. The heroes are prophesied to close a “fountain” in a place where creatures have been imprisoned by their kind and befriend people along the way... wacky characters culminating in a fight with a King wielding a long red weapon... except instead of Humans and Monsters it’s Lightners and Darkers aka those that live in the light and those that live in the dark style. The human and monster meet up with a “Prince of This Realm” named Raseli which is an obvious anagram for Asriel. However Asriel already exists in this time. In UT: when flowey first introduced himself its as “The Prince of this worlds future” which is a fitting parallel but apparently this new friend says he’s a darkness prince. The new prophecy states that a human, a monster, and a prince of the dark will save the realm. this is assumed to be Raseli until we meet Prince Lancer, the son of the King of Spades. In the end it’s Lancer that unites people to take the King down. So if the prophecy is talking about him, susie, and Kris... who is Rasiel? My theory: Chara Dreemurr

Rasiel has a lot of parallels to Flowey. However in this game he actually gives you a decent tutorial... always encouraging you to finish fights peacefully as opposed to flowey saying “kill or be killed” and wanting you to murder. Raseli is always very cheery which sometimes honestly seems like a front. He always seems to know what the characters in the game are feeling such as when he says “the dog looks sad” in a narrating way when susie remarks “no it doesn’t” and it’s true... it doesn’t. So how could a simple darker know more than others who are seeing the same thing. Why does Raseli look and feel more like a self insert OC than all the others? Why is this game like a fan game of Undertale? Why does their shirt have a black heart upon it like there is a void in their outfit where a SOUL should be? Why are they smiling? Why is their primary colour green? Why are they the exact same height and build as Kris? Why is it shown they’re wearing a disguise under their first disguise? and why when they’re “unmasked” are they a Boss Monster like the dreemurrs? It’s Chara. It would also link back to the beginning of the game. The opposite of Asriel. In the end of the Genocide Route they remark they have full control over the world. If Asriel made himself powerful with wings why wouldn’t Chara make themself into a helpful guide? Not only that... it explains why the whole thing feels like a worse version of Undertale with some of the endings feeling purposefully forced like “everyone’s come to meet you” and every dark creature literally gathers in the last 3 room in tne end even when you haven’t befriended the darkness creatures nearly as much as the monsters in UT. Also when you meet Raseli they say they’re the last of their people but no other creatures like raseli are seen. Almost all dark creatures are based on cards and chess and other games but Raseli isn’t. They also have the Chara Smile which is hard to see under the glasses but once you see the silhouette...

yeah...

In any case... i believe Chara is behind all this and that somehow they’ve taken control of this timeline so the war never happened, in a bid to torment the player? in order to make their dream world where asriel and them grew up together happily on the surface and went to school? Who knows. This is my theory anyway. Food for thought i guess

#deltarune #delta rune #undertale #deltarune spoilers #delta rune spoilers #chara dreemurr #frisk #raseli #kris

[lotarclasspects]

Classpectors are just Homestuck Astrologers

[lotarclasspects]

@classesandaspects

Hiveswap Classes, whats the deal?

Ok so i havent really touched on Hiveswap much because ive mostly just been combing through the original homestuck canon but after a little bit of discourse on my main regarding a classpect post (big mistake lol) it got me thinking. Ill post what i wrote before after this because i think i just stumbled upon something here. As all you classpect enthusiasts probably know, the characters in Hiveswap’s friendsim seem to act an awful lot like the classes assigned to the main Sgrub Trolls. For example: Bronya showing many signs of what could be considered Sylph-like and both Elwurd and Remele looking like blatant Thieves, especially textually Remele’s “in another life i might make a good thief” and literal Art Thief joke character connotations. However this seems kind of fishy doesnt it? )( It isnt impossible that all the characters would share the same class as the main trolls but it seems unlikely. But then again perhaps this is Hussie’s way of explaining why the Ancestors acted so much like their descendants’ classpects. Even so much as having The Condesce, a Thief of Life being referred to textually as “The Witch” or “the Batterwitch” just like her descendant, Feferi. Perhaps having the Ancestors have the same classpects as their descendants was Hussie’s original plan before he changed it. If this is his way of explaining that, yet we KNOW the ancestors have different classpects to their descendants that can be read once you understand them. Thanks to James Roach’s recent post about musical instruments associated with the castes, i have a theory. A FILM THEOR- hehe

The Theory is that, as many have pointed out, the hiveswap trolls act very similarly to the main aspects of the A2 trolls. For example, before the Extended Zodiac many theorised Xephros and Dammek to be a Time hero and a Breath hero respectivley. A theory ive heard is that this is Doc Scratch’s doing to ensure the sgrub trolls will be as in tune with their true roles as they can be for the success of the game to happen. So if i was a betting person, which im not, id bet that our dear old Scratch Doctor has done the same thing with the classes. That in order to encourage the right behaviour from the A2 Trolls he would structure Alternia’s society’s standards to correspond with their roles even more so. This is evidenced by not only the Ancestors but a lot of class speculation on the Hiveswap trolls as seen above. Then I saw James Roach’s post about how many of the same instruments were used for members of a similar caste. But the ones which stuck out to me were:

 “Cerulean: they just… steal other castes instruments so its complicated to explain.”

and

“Jade: Harps/Bells + Airy/Ethereal Sounds”

Cerulean obviously sounds like the characters’ sounds emulate the actions of thieves in a very meta ironic way which hussie classically uses throughout Homestuck. Not to mention all the cerulean hiveswap characters have been acting like thieves, and with the Jades, a Sylph in mythology is an air spirit or fairy, which would explain the “ethereal sounds” and the Sylph’s role as a healer would naturally be strongly helped if an entire caste were conditioned to be mothers. 

And then a thought hit me. The word… “caste” and so i searched up the definiton on google and one of the main meanings of Caste which fits with alternia is:

“ any class or group of people who inherit exclusive privileges or are perceived as socially distinct.“those educated in private schools belong to a privileged caste” “

Any CLASS. The castes of Alternia are structured to mirror not only the true Aspects but the Classes of the A2 Trolls as well. And this can be seen for instance, with bookish and generally sweet Aranea Serket, who, born without the structure of this society acted very much like her true Sylph self, yet her Alternian counterpart was a scallywag. If we didnt know their true mythological roles i think we’d all assume that they were exactly the same as their descendants. Are the hiveswap ceruleans all thieves? Are all the olives Rogues? I personally dont think so. And i dont think Hussie would pull that either. If it is true that this is a way to explain the Ancestors actions as a slight retcon to his original plan, then I believe that the trolls are not the classes but simply acting like them. I believe that if we are to understand these characters we need to change how we define classes. We need to figure out what is a Caste trait and what is a Class trait. To do this we’d need to compare the behaviour of the A2 trolls with the hiveswap trolls of the same caste to figure out what has been imposed, and then compare the other traits to the A1 and human characters to figure out what characteristics are inherent to the bearers of the class. Before we get the canon class test, this course of action will have to do to really try and decode these characters, and also the classpect system as a whole which could make for far more specific interpretations about our own selves.

For example, Remele is refered to many times in Friendsim as a Thief, even so much as referring to herself as being “a great thief in a different life” or her entire character being an Art Thief as it were. But the reason she “steals” art is because “art should be for everyone” which is the textbook definition of a Rogue. even if she is egotistical and a bit self centered. 

When more about this comes to light, i will probably post about it, Thank you for reading!

-Some Hero of Breath Probably

[lotarclasspects]

Class Decisions

I find that the supposed Active Passive scale can be a little hard when trying to figure out your class cause to a perfectionist it can seem that you need to be every exact trait to be a member of said class which just isn’t true. Instead of Active and Passive i find it helpful to look at the class pairs to be two options of a similar thing. Here’s a list to help with the tiebreakers

Master: Patient and Inspiring or Determined and Commanding

(Muse, Lord)

Steal: Helpful and Loyal, or Self Focused and Ambitious

(Rogue, Thief)

Serve: Progressive and Meek, or Capable and Protective

(Page, Knight)

Change: Meddling and Helpful, Sweet and Rebellious

(Sylph, Witch)

Destroy: Capricious and Mysterious, Powerful and Imposing

(Bard, Prince)

Make: Strong and Maturing, Transformative and Serving

(Heir, Maid)

Know: Intelligent and Knowledgeable, Understanding and Changed

(Seer, Mage)

This is like really simple but the basics aren’t bad

#classes #classpect

[lotarclasspects]

“UU: it is the day whereafter the legendary octet of mUtUal progenitoriety will come together and heal a great breach in paradox space. UU: a day delivered throUgh eighty billion years and foUr distinct Universal instances worth of Unfathomable tUrbUlence. UU: and while the emerald eye of this storm is fixed in the abyss forever UU: today yoU are poised to escape its scowl once and for all. UU: by skaias gUiding light, yoU may leave behind its tUrning arms of bright coloUrs and mayhem, and secUre peace for yoUr cosmic progeny for all dUration.”

— Homestuck pg 006044