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"TikTok is so cringe. There's girls on there who want the Menendez brothers freed"

In the words of Marianne Cano, I don't know what cringe means.

#real post I just saw btww

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The actress who is playing Kitty said she’ll be playing the worst type of person in the show tho, and that it will be from the brothers’ perspective. She even mentioned Jose being molested by Maria

That is interesting... I keep going back and forth on this. I noticed Dominick Dunn will be a character but not Robert Rand

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The fact that there is a cast member listed as playing Craig Cignarelli, but not anyone playing Ed Fenno, Casey Whalen or Donovan Goudrou is not a good sign imo.....

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alright I’m new this case so admittedly I don’t know as many details but 💀 so far I genuinely feel like Lyle manipulated Eric into it. Not saying he’s a monster or anything but he just seems colder than his brother, is that too off?

I would have to disagree.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean. Like, Lyle wasn't actually scared and just wanted to make Erik scared? Or do you not believe that part of the testimony at all?

Witnesses always described Lyle as sensitive, generous, protective etc. He wasn't cold in my opinion. He loved his friend Donovan so much, he didn't even care that he was stealing from him. He told Donovan one of his most shameful secrets just to make him feel better about having been abused himself.

Lyle didn't even have motivation to kill his parents at that point. Jose was going to make more money than ever before in the coming year, and multiple relatives testified that Erik and Lyle had been told and believed they were out of the will. Unless you believe he didn't want Jose running his life, but there isn't really evidence to support that either.

The only motivation I could think that makes sense for Lyle to plan to kill his parents would be maybe that he was so disgusted about the revelation of what was happening to Erik, and that Kitty knew, that he just wanted to kill them after learning that.

But why would he need Erik's help? Erik was so emotional (and If Lyle had intentionally scared him, he'd know how emotional he'd be), and with two people firing in a small, dim room, he would just be increasing the chance that Erik could shoot him by accident, or a stray bullet could ricochet and hit him. If Lyle for whatever reason had actually planned on killing his parents, he wouldn't need Erik to help him, and Erik was so devoted to Lyle he would have covered for him anyways (until the guilt overtook him anyways like it did IRL)

But based on the 911 call, and Lyle's testimony I really don't get the impression he's cold. Unless he somehow became an Oscar-worthy actor at some point.

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I actually like the subreddit, it’s good for discussions. And it’s not like anytime agreed with them lol

Well, that's good to hear

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Well good for you, because currently there has been some homophobic people in there saying shit like “Cooper shouldn’t play Erik because he’s gay and too feminine looking” like 💀

uhh... really??

This is why I hate reddit

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Are you in the Menendez brothers subreddit?

No. I hate reddit lol

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Not gonna lie, what I’m most worried about is Lyle’s characterization. I don’t want another “the older brother is a psychopath who manipulated the younger one” shit adaptation. That man is literally so brave and kind and literally the best brother I’ve ever seen so why is it so difficult to get him right??

Yes! I agree. Lyle is the one who usually gets portrayed negatively, or at least inaccurately.

If they don't want to show his childhood as a foundation for his character, they could at least show him at university. Being generous with his friends, the conversation with Donovan, taking credit for wrecking the pool table.

But I think the reason he gets portrayed like that is because people want to take this middle ground. They're too afraid to believe fully the brothers recounting of events.

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Apparently that will be a scene where Lyle has a flashback of the shootings while driving. Ngl I feel like that’s a good sign even if it’s a bit tasteless, means he won’t unaffected by the killings

Yeah, that definitely sounds better than what I was imagining

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I saw a cast photo from Monsters with the actors playing Jose and Kitty in blood and gunshot makeup. Seems a little tasteless in my opinion to show that, but maybe it'll just be a quick scene that doesn't show much? (hope)

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What are scenes of you think are essential to the Monsters series?

Well, I never saw the first season of the show so I'm not sure what exactly they tend to focus on, but here's what I would say.

The childhood abuse is so crucial to understanding what happened the week of August 20th, but I doubt it will be shown because it would probably be too much, too complicated and too uncomfortable.

But I hope it's at least talked about because in terms of fitting the family into, sort of, easy to understand archetypes for the purposes of a show or movie, Erik and Jose both are fairly simple to do that with. Audiences understand what an abusive father is basically like (although Jose was much worse than most), And Erik is immediately empathetic because he was being sexually abused at that time, and he was the un-favourite.

Kitty and Lyle are both more difficult to portray in my opinion, because they don't as easily fit into archetypes. I think for most general audiences to empathize with Lyle as much as Erik you'd have to show the brainwashing sessions, the dinner table quizzes, and the abuse by Kitty at the very least.

I'd also love to see Lyle's stuffed animals brought up, but I doubt that will come into play.

Abuse on the tennis court would be a good way to illustrate Jose's overall treatment of them in relation to sports. Either Lyle being punched in the limo, or Erik being thrown agains the fence.

Erik telling Lyle of the abuse in the guest house

Lyle's confrontation with Jose. I'd love to see it portrayed as described in Lyle's testimony.

Jose trying to break down Erik's door that night.

The August 20th confrontation by the stairs is a must.

I'm sure they'll show the shotgun purchases, and the aftermath of running around trying to meet Perry Berman and all of that.

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What do you think of the casting for Monsters??

Answered this. But I am curious to see if this will be pro or anti the brothers, and how much of their abuse they will show.

My guess is it will be another middle-ground style show, but hoping to be surprised.

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Thoughts on the brothers’ casting for Monsters on Netflix?

Based on looks alone, I think they should have switched roles

Chloe Saviny will be a great Kitty I think. Based on the types of roles she normally plays, will we finally get an accurate Kitty??

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How Jose and Kitty Menendez Groomed Their Own Children For Abuse

Jose and Kitty had different motivations for sexually abusing their sons. Jose was a sex addict and a sadist, who would use anyone he had access to to meet his own perverse needs. Kitty did it to fill her need for attention, and to try and alleviate her insecurity about aging. But both parents used similar techniques to groom the two boys. 

What a lot of people have been noticing lately is the fact that they each molested their “least favourite” child. This was no coincidence. 

When predators victimize children outside their family, they often choose a victim who is neglected or abused at home. The predator then fills the void their victim has for love and nurturing, and then exploits it. Kitty and Jose though, directly created that need in their kids, and then filled it themselves. 

As Erik’s lawyer, Leslie Abramson put it, Jose raised Erik to be “his perfect toy.” Jose constantly bullied, belittled and ignored his younger son. Telling him frequently that he wasn’t even good enough to be a Menendez. If Erik so much as tried to speak, Jose would tell him to shut up or hit him.

“I remember one time, my brother just kind of wandered into the area. You know, he wanted to be a part of what was happening. My dad hit him across the face, and my brother just went flying into the rug. His face was all bruised.” - a tearful Lyle Menendez recalled.

The only time Jose was “nice” to Erik was when he was sexually abusing him. Because Erik so desperately wanted his father to love him, it made him receptive to this early part of the abuse.

“I wanted to be liked as much as Lyle” - Erik Menendez

Jose sexually abused Lyle as well, but stopped when he was 9. Erik’s abuse continued right up until the killing. Jose would tell both his sons that what he was doing to them was natural, and would teach them about ancient Greece and Rome. Using it as a justification. As Lyle stated, he thought his dad knew everything and that he must be right about what he was saying.

But, this “nice” facade didn’t last very long. Jose no longer pretended what they were doing was a form of bonding, and Erik found this was simply another thing he would be ordered to do and would have to obey. As Erik got older, the sexual abuse became more and more violent and sadistic. 

He would also force Erik to stand naked in front of a mirror, and remind himself he would be killed if he ever told anyone what his father was doing to him.

Kitty was described by her family members as having hated her older son Lyle from the minute he was born. And she was not shy about letting him know. She would often tell him she hated him, that he ruined her life, and that she wished he had never been born.

Kitty used Lyle as a punching bag, and always took out her frustration on him. She would throw things at him, drag him around by his hair, kick him while he was on the ground, and force him to stay under her bed for hours. 

The Menendez cousins, who stayed with the family in the summer time, recalled seeing Kitty abuse Lyle in all sorts of ways. Smearing blood on his face, rubbing his face in the sheets when he wet the bed, and attempting to cut his face with a razor blade.

But, just like her husband, she reserved one time and one time only to be “nice” to Lyle. When she was sexually abusing him. 

“I wanted her to love me and… I took it to be love.” - Lyle Menendez

Kitty would fondle Lyle and have him do the same to her. She bathed him well into his teens, and used this as an excuse to touch him. She exposed herself to Lyle and would kiss him on the lips. When Lyle turned 13, he wanted it to end. He no longer accepted her invitations to sleep in bed with her, realizing she was not expressing any sort of love when she did these things. 

“I thought things were gonna get better… But she got worse.” - Lyle

This was when Kitty began constantly sexually harassing Lyle. She would touch him, walk around in an open robe and make sexual comments about him. Kitty would call Lyle into her room when she was changing and ask if she looked pretty.

She also began inspecting both Lyle and Erik’s genitals. When Lyle began dating, she would ask sexually explicit questions and demand answers. 

Kitty acted extremely jealous of Lyle’s girlfriends, and would grill them for details of their sexual contact with him. Every time Lyle began dating someone, Kitty would demand they break up.

She once told the family that Lyle had contracted AIDs, and forced Lyle to eat off of paper plates in a separate room. 

Jose and Kitty Menendez knew exactly what they were doing, and exactly how to keep their two sons fearful and obedient. To them, their children were only tools to fulfill their own needs. Sexual or otherwise. 

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What Exactly Is The Menendez Brothers Confession Tape?

There is so much misinformation about this tape, so let me start by saying what it is not. This tape IS NOT Erik’s original confession to his therapist. It was not recorded secretly and it is not the only place they confessed.

On August 20th, 1989, Lyle and Erik shot their parents. On October 31st, 1989, Erik confesses to his therapist, Dr. Oziel. Dr. Oziel calls Lyle and tells him to come down right away because “he knows his secret.”

 Oziel tells Lyle and Erik if they don’t come back for more therapy sessions, he will go to the police. He also tells them he has some theories and he will be able to figure out why they did it. That he could be helpful in a trial.

When Lyle and Erik leave, Oziel claims that Lyle threatens him at the elevator door and this is why he breached their confidentiality. Judalon Smyth is there and says Lyle did not threaten him. Judalon testifies that Oziel called and asked her to come and listen at the door, to Lyle and Erik’s therapy session after Erik’s confession. Meaning, he broke confidentiality before the supposed threat. She also said, she did not hear any threats against Oziel inside the session either.

Lyle and Erik decide they must go back to Oziel to keep him from going to the police. They decide to go along with his theory, because they do not want to reveal their history of sexual abuse by their parents, which is what ultimately lead to the shooting. Erik’s friend David Mraovitch testified that Erik told him he did not trust Dr. Oziel, that Oziel did not care that he was suicidal and that he thought he was after his money.

In early November, Oziel makes The Confession Tape with the brothers. The tape starts, and stops, in the middle of a sentence. The tape consists of mostly talking by Oziel, and almost no talking by Erik.

Even though the brothers have agreed to go along with Oziel’s theory, that it was a planned killing, the boys make statements on the tape that directly contradict this. Statements like “I had no choice”, “I would have taken any other choice” and “I didn’t think it would ever actually happen.” On the tape, Oziel ignores Erik’s suicidal statements. He does not pick up on what therapists call “metaphors”, which are supposed to be followed up on, and he does not encourage Lyle and Erik to confess to the police. Which is what therapists are supposed to do in cases like this.

One false narrative is that Judalon Smyth hears this tape and then goes to the police. That is not what happened. Oziel used the threat of Lyle and Erik coming to kill her as a way to blackmail Smyth into continuing their sexual relationship. Judalon goes to the police after Oziel rapes her, feels she is not being taken seriously, and so tells them about the tape in an attempt to get Oziel arrested.

Instead, Judalon begins recording phone calls with Oziel where he admits he is not scared of the boys, is blackmailing them for their money, and that his notes on their sessions are inaccurate.

Dr. Ann Burgess testified that Lyle is clearly lying on the tape and speaking in metaphors, and that Erik is hysterical and not saying anything that suggests a planned killing. Erik and Lyle both, on tape, adamantly disagree with Oziel’s characterization of their father as controlling, going against his theory they planned to kill him to get away from his control.

Erik: “I don’t like hearing these things about my father.”

Lyle: “True.”

Dr. Burgess said Lyle saying “I just couldn’t live with what he was doing to my mother” was an obvious metaphor for brother, referring to his attempt to get Jose to stop molesting Erik, which eventually lead to the shooting. She also noted that Erik compared himself and Lyle to John and Robert Kennedy, two brothers who were shot to death. An obvious metaphor for their fear that their parents were planning to kill them.

Furthermore, on the tape, Oziel forces Erik and Lyle to hug, which they refuse to do several times.  

Lyle: “We hate that hugging shit.”

Dr. Burgess noted this is not only improper for a therapist to do, but it is yet another piece of evidence that Lyle and Erik hated being touched. Yet another behavioural sign they exhibited, consistent with having been sexually abused. 

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The Most Important Defence Witnesses in the Menendez Case

Lyle and Erik Menendez said they’d killed their parents in fear. After a lifetime of physical and sexual abuse, their parents had threatened to kill them to keep them from going public with the sexual abuse, and they believed it. These are some of the most important witnesses that validate Erik and Lyle’s story.

Diane Vandermolen

A cousin of Lyle and Erik who lived with the family for several summers. She witnessed a lot of physical abuse that went on in the house. Most importantly though, she witnessed sexual abuse. She saw Jose showering with Lyle and Erik. She also testified that when she was 17 and Lyle was 8, he told her he was afraid to sleep in his room because his dad kept touching him.

Marta Cano

Lyle and Erik’s aunt and Jose’s sister. She witnessed her brother abusing the kids, shaking them and punching them, among other things. She witnessed Jose forcing Erik to hang from an exercise bar when he was a baby. She witnessed Kitty refusing to feed her children. She also witnessed Jose telling Erik he was going to give him a massage. Both Lyle and Erik stated the sexual abuse had started under the guise of massages after sports practice.

Edward Fenno

Lyle’s university friend who stayed with the family for a few months. He testified that when he would be hanging out with Erik in his room, Jose would kick him out. That he would spend hours in the room, that Edward was not allowed near the door, and that Erik wouldn’t be seen again all night. This is very important corroborative evidence that Erik’s sexual abuse had continued to age 18. Edward also stated that nothing could be heard through the walls in the house, which goes against the prosecutors theory that the maid would have heard the arguing the days before the shooting. He also witnessed Kitty abusing Lyle, even as a young adult.

Andy Cano

Erik and Lyle’s cousin. He testified that Erik had told him he was being sexually abused several times throughout their childhood. At the time, Andy hadn’t understood what Erik meant by “painful massages”. Andy also said that Erik had become frantic when Andy had touched a jar of vaseline in his room. Saying “it’s not for that”, when Andy had tried to put some on his skin. Erik said his dad had always kept a jar of vaseline by his bed his whole life, and used it during the abuse. A jar of vaseline can be seen next to Erik’s bed in the crime scene photos of the house.

Alan Anderson

Another cousin who had stayed with the family for a couple summers. He witnessed and experienced abuse by Jose and Kitty. He saw Kitty attempt to cut Lyle’s face with a razor blade. He saw Lyle being forced to play tennis with a shoulder injury, and also saw Jose showering with Lyle and Erik. He heard his cousins being beaten in their bedrooms, and saw the bruises on them. He testified that when Jose was alone in the room with one of the boys, nobody could go anywhere near the door. Diane Vandermolen, Kathy Simonton, Marianne Cano, Marta Cano and Edward Fenno said the same thing.

Charles Wadlington

Erik and Lyle’s tennis coach. He witnessed Kitty and Jose verbally abusing their children, and testified that both boys seemed afraid of their parents. He said when Erik got an ingrown toenail, he was hysterical at the thought of his mother finding out Charles had helped him treat the injury. He said the boys were very emotionally immature and had interests of children years younger than they were. He expressed his love for Lyle and Erik on the stand, and that he had suspected they were being abused physically.

Judalon Smyth

The ex-girlfriend of Dr. Oziel. He was the therapist Erik confessed to, and the prosecutors star witness. She disproved many of Oziel’s lies. For example, he claimed that Lyle had threatened him at the elevator door of his office on October 31st, 1989. Judalon was there and said Lyle never threatened him. Judalon recorded many phone calls with Oziel, in which he admitted he was blackmailing the boys to try and get their money. He also asked her to pretend to be Erik on tape and make threats against his wife, and admitted his notes of Lyle and Erik’s therapy sessions were not accurate. In one call, he repeatedly uses the word “thorns”. Smyth said that Oziel had hypnotized her and programmed the word “thorns” as a way to make her forget things. Oziel can be heard on tape asking Lyle and Erik to let him hypnotize them. She characterized Oziel as manipulative and abusive, just as Lyle and Erik had.

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What Lyle Left Out and Why

One of the most famous moments in the first Menendez trial was Lyle’s tearful testimony, in which he described being sexually abused. Lyle wept throughout a lot of his testimony and was much more emotional on the stand than Erik. (interesting how Erik is the one who gets accused of acting though…)

However, Erik was also a lot more in depth when it came to describing the details of his abuse. Lyle talked a lot about how he felt during it and the events surrounding it, but was vague when describing the abuse. He used terms like “he’d rape me” and “I’d perform oral sex on him”, where as Erik did not use these proper type of terms, and would describe how each act of abuse played out. 

Lyle clearly displayed a lot of shame and embarrassment that he’d been victimized. As well as the guilt he felt that as a child he’d re-enacted some of his abuse on Erik. Pamela Bozanich criticized Lyle for apologizing to Erik on the stand, and Lyle replied that he was also apologizing to his father. Lyle had never wanted anyone to know his parents were sick people. He loved them, and his family loved them. 

Dr. Conte, one of the psychologists who evaluated Lyle, stated that there was clearly a lot of aspects and incidents of abuse Lyle was simply not willing to talk about. He said that this is because victims fear certain secrets are so shameful or disturbing they will push people away. He also said the abuse at the hands of his father probably went on longer than Lyle was willing to admit. 

All of their cousins knew the fact that Jose showered with Lyle and Erik when they were kids. But the fact is, Lyle kept showering with his dad up until 21. Erik testified that Jose sexually abused him during showers, and Lyle told Donovan Goodreau that he and Erik had both been molested by Jose in the bathtub. 

Lyle was very vague when talking about being molested by his mother. This was clearly something that was very difficult for him to talk about. He used very non-descriptive terms like “touching”, and “everywhere”. Jill Lansing even had to clarify by asking if he meant his genitals and he barely audibly, and very quickly answers “yes.” Lyle said his dad would be in bed with them when this was going on. It is possible Jose did something to him at this time too. 

Lyle also admitted to Norma Norvelli there were things he was not willing to tell the psychologists. “I can only go so far for them. Some things I can talk about, some things I won’t.”