#menelaus' character in general compared to those around him is an enigma

[menelaiad]

hi i read a classicist saying that in the Greek myths Helen never chose her husband, they said she didn’t chose Menelaus and she was raped and miserable but i can’t find a source for that? i thought Helen chose Menelaus as her husband when she was asked, didn’t she? is there any source for Helen hating Menelaus and being forced to marry him? I thought Menelaus was a good husband :c

EEEEEEE i wasnt gonna answer this. there's a lot of stuff here that i don't usually touch with a ten foot pole because i have no self control and am an opinionated asshole. THAT BEING SAID. i will give you .... the 'big three' traditions on how menelaus/helen came about and my own personal thoughts on them. why they work. why they don't. why i choose to .... follow certain ones and not others. okay? okay.

as i said, there are three BIG 'storylines' as to how menelaus and helen were coupled up, basically. they are fragmentary, they are not detailed. but they're all we have. or at least. they're the three you usually see playing out.

first is. HESIOD. and his CATALOGUE OF WOMEN. (all fragments). he says in fragment 68:

(ll. 11-15) ((lacuna) . . . and as many women skilled in blameless arts, each holding a golden bowl in her hands. And truly Castor and strong Polydeuces would have made him their brother perforce, but Agamemnon, being son-in-law to Tyndareus, wooed her for his brother Menelaus.

(ll. 21-27) And from Ithaca the sacred might of Odysseus, Laertes son, who knew many-fashioned wiles, sought her to wife. He never sent gifts for the sake of the neat-ankled maid, for he knew in his heart that golden-haired Menelaus would win, since he was greatest of the Achaeans in possessions and was ever sending messages to horse-taming Castor and prize-winning Polydeuces.

(ll. 52-54) . . . sought her to wife. And after golden-haired Menelaus he offered the greatest gifts of all the suitors, and very much he desired in his heart to be the husband of Argive Helen with the rich hair.

so this is a combination of the 'menelaus had the nicest shit and was picked either by helen's brothers or her father for her because they wanted nice stuff' and the 'menelaus?? wasnt even??? fucking there??? and aga did??? the flirting for him????' narratives.

i personally take issue with the 'menelaus gave the nicest gift and was chosen' narrative sIMPLY BECAUSE. why would he have the nice stuff?? it's agamemnon's. mycenae is agamemnon's kingdom. not menelaus'. the stuff??? not his. he is a couch-surfing-brother at the moment. he doesnt really have??? anything?? just a CONNECTION to aga. YES if he's picked for helen he will get sparta and all that good stuff. but at the time???? it wouldn't be his. i'm not saying aga wouldn't loan him this cool stuff to show off with, but compared to dio and ody and the others - he actually has nothing. just a brother with a kingdom. at least ody is a king and dio is set to inherit a lot when he comes of age. so this is out, personally for me.

i can honestly dig the 'aga flirts for menelaus' narrative though. that one always cracks me up and is not used enough. we don't know??? why menelaus isnt there??? and aga is??? even though aga is the one with the kingdom and THE JOB??? but it's just funny. just aga tryna hype up his baby bro to the most beautiful woman ever so she'll pick him. that's funny shit. i can dig this version.

next is APOLLODORUS. who doesn't give us much tbh. he just says:

[E.2.15] But the nurse took Agamemnon and Menelaus to Polyphides, lord of Sicyon, who again sent them to Oeneus, the Aetolian. Not long afterwards Tyndareus brought them back again .......... And they became the sons-in-law of Tyndareus by marrying his daughters, Agamemnon getting Clytaemnestra to wife ......... while Menelaus got Helen.

[E.2.16] ... And Menelaus married Helen and reigned over Sparta, Tyndareus having ceded the kingdom to him.

all this really adds is that menelaus becomes king because tyndareus steps down. he doesn't die. which i know a lot of people are '?????' by. but there's nothing here to emphasise how the marriage is arranged or goes down. which gives people a lot to play with. ig.

lastly. is HYGINUS. who says.

TYNDAREUS: Tyndareus, son of Oibalus, by Leda, daughter of Thestius, became father of Clytemnestra and Helen; he gave Clytemnestra in marriage to Agamemnon, son of Atreus. Because of her exceeding beauty many suitors from many states sought Helen in marriage. Tyndareus .... gave Helen leave to put a wreath on whomever she wished to marry. She put it on Menelaus, and Tyndareus gave her to him in marriage and at his death left him his kingdom.

and here is the 'helen chose menelaus' narrative. tyndareus left the choice to her and she put the wreath on his head. so, for this version he was there and it's never stated that she chose him because of his stuff??? (again he doesnt HAVE ANYTHING). so. we can assume she just??? liked him best. YES i am biased to menelaus/helen forever. i adore them. but even then THIS makes the most sense to me. it works with apollodorus' brief account too. and idk hesiod's just. doesn't make sense to me.

BUT these are three ancient accounts that we have. there is no ONE CANON. there is no 'this happened and this didn't' it's what tradition makes sense to you. i've tried to explain why i don't think hesiod's political spin on it would work, but for someone, it might.

in terms of her marriage being forced??? if she chose menelaus, clearly not. if her brothers or her father chose for her?? thats tricky. in the context of her time? helen would have known she would have to marry. she was a princess of a powerful kingdom. it just. would have been. its a tricky grey area.

i will say, though, in terms of her being 'raped and miserable' i do not know a source for that. again, you can interpret Certain Events as her being unhappy. she did leave with another man after all. but i think there's more TO it then that. a lot of events in the HCU are never black and white. and that's kinda the point??? they emphasise choice and fate and control and complexities of life and what we choose to do in it.

MY overall opinion? helen chose menelaus. and for a long time. she was happy. but menelaus is not without his baggage (you don't come out of the house of atreus unscathed). and that would put a strain on any relationship. and aphrodite and fate struck when that couple was at their most vulnerable. and it tore them apart. i dont think they ever stopped loving each other, though. i think deep down they always did and they needed certain events and time to realise it. i think there's a huge gap between the iliad and odyssey 4 in which they heal. they talk and they heal and they learn and they listen and they try to understand. it's why i scream about the menelaiad so much because john barth fills that gap. in a very beautiful and very human way. but he is a reception piece, so i respect not wanting to squeeze him into the narrative.

but this is just my thoughts. and i'm just a menelaus simp on tumblr so like.

#menelaus #im not a CLASSICIST lmfao #compared to most husbands on mythos?? menelaus is good. #perfect? no. the ideal husband? no. he has flaws. #but when you compare him to those around him. i mean. #menelaus' character in general compared to those around him is an enigma #he's beautiful and fascinating and my babygirl #long post for ts /// #NO SERIOUSLY LONG POST IM SORRY #i cant SHUT UP