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getoffthesoapbox · 7 years

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VK Science - Level D, E, and Disease

[GOTSB’s reply:] My sincerest apologies for how long it’s taken me to get back to you on this, my friend. Writing up my post on the latest chapter took all my energy last month, and my capacity for thinking about VK was completely drained. Still I made you wait an abysmally long time, and I’m deeply sorry about it.

Anyway, let’s discuss your post! =)

Sorry for the delay. I got ill (still am) and was unable to do much of anything. I also almost lost all of this! I was about to quit! OTL Can I at least get props for my rhyming title LOL? Anyway, since we seem to be on the same page from our last discussion, I figured I would move on to my next theory, which will explain how I think Purebloods “turn” humans into “vampires,” why they are able to do this from an evolutionary perspective, what this may look like on a genetic level, and why I am looking at this from a disease perspective. This will overall help further establish the differences between actual vampires that were naturally born and former human vampires. In the end, this will also explain why a single “cure” wouldn’t work for all vampires and why in VK they should instead be researching a cure for former humans.

[GOTSB’s reply:] I hope you’re feeling better by now, my friend, and I’m so sorry you were sick. Absolutely you get props for rhyming the title. ;) I’d give you a gold star if I had any. =P And cool! I love the idea that a single cure won’t work (though I wonder if Hino is smart enough for this haha)!

Differences between Vampires and Former Humans: Personally, I agree with Aidou’s statement in the beginning of VK when at Takuma’s party, him and the others stated that they are different from Level D’s and especially, Level E’s; although, I don’t agree with how they looked down at them, of course.

Observational: Before discussing any science, we can see that Level D’s are not as strong as other vampires nor do they live as long. The difference is even more noticeable with Level E’s as their appearance no longer fits with the saying, “A beast in human form” because they look terrifying like monsters. I think some of this can be explained with psychology as they appear to lose their sanity, which is evident with their disarrayed appearance and broken speech. Personally, I think the loss of sanity makes sense, but I will cover my reasoning in another point below.

[GOTSB’s reply:] Absolutely agree with you here, and despite Aidou’s snotty attitude in the first arc, I think he was still being intellectually honest back then. =) There’s absolutely a difference between the “made” vampires and the “natural” vampires, if you will.

“Turning” and Genetics: As we briefly discussed last time, Level D’s and E’s were originally human, which should be evident in their overall DNA. If you remember our first discussion, you theorized Purebloods activating a gene, but like I said earlier, this wouldn’t be possible because that means humans would naturally contain the Vmpr gene, but in a dormant state. Honestly… My theory is odd even to me, but it’s the only way I could rationalize how Purebloods turn humans into vampires without “magicz.” I more than encourage other theories and speculation, and I’ll see if I can scientifically explain them :)

[GOTSB’s reply:] Sounds fair enough to me! Anything’s better than “magicz” and “lazy writer is lazy,” so I’m totally open to anything you can give us that can help us escape those two routes. ;)

Genetic Alteration: I guess because I am in Microbiology and I focus on microbes that led me to create this theory. Plus, I also fell ill because of a virus and then a bacterium (my luck…), so I guess that was inspiration? ’(^_^) Anyway, again, going back to our first discussion, when you mentioned that you think Purebloods “give” a gene to “turn” humans, I wondered how that could be possible as it seemed really odd, the idea of giving a gene via a bite.

[GOTSB’s reply:] Lol! Microbial/bacterial inspiration! (To be fair, I get a lot of my inspiration when I’m sick too–maybe because you have to sit alone by yourself for a long time and can put things into perspective better. ;D) LOL and when you put it that way, my thought does sound really weird, doesn’t it? =P This is why I’m not a scientist IRL fufu. Thank you for humoring me. ;)

Viral DNA: I think it could be possible if the Purebloods naturally carry a virus that is only harmful to the human genome - anyone who doesn’t carry the Vmpr gene. This would be similar to how some organisms are venomous. Although… There’s a lot of problems with this theory too.

[GOTSB’s reply:] Ohhhh that’s interesting! We know vampires get sick and have their own “illnesses” too–Maria was ill for a long time and Aidou’s latest cure just “cured” a vampire’s rheumatism. So basically what this virus you’re thinking of would be is, if a vampire bit anotehr vampire, this virus basically just wouldn’t do anything ‘cause vampires are naturally immune to its effects or have natural defenses against it, but biting a human would activate the virus and it would then just warp their genes?

How it works on the Genetic Level: Essentially, this virus could hijack the normal replication sites of DNA (likely the promoter region) in humans to replicate it’s own viral DNA. This would alter the DNA in humans, which could include the expression of genes/traits. Now this virus doesn’t have to insert an exact copy of DNA that Purebloods or other vampires have and in VK it wouldn’t. Of course all of this is speculation, but if I had to guess, I would say that it inserts a sequence of codons that code, say for, Vmpr2 - different from what Level A to C vampires carry. Because it codes for vampiric traits and we labeled vampirism as dominant, you would expect this gene to code over the human genes or turn them to a more dormant state. In the end, human traits are not expressed.

[GOTSB’s reply:] You know, this might also explain why different “turned” humans turn at varying rates too, due to individual DNA replication differences. So that’d maybe also explain why Zero took so long to turn (Zero’s genetics are also are partially vampiric thanks to the twin curse + Ancestress DNA, so he’d perhaps be more resistant to this thing), yet Sara’s turned servants became vampires much sooner.

Why a different gene: I theorize a different gene because if it was the same gene, then we would see Level D’s as more similar to Average vampires, and therefore, they shouldn’t fall to Level E. Although, there are some arguments about why they fall to Level E, which I will address in a different point. Additionally, if it was the same gene, then you would expect a Level D vampire to be as strong as an Average vampire as well as experience bloodlust as frequently; however, again, there are some counterarguments that could explain a different reason that separate the two levels. Plus, as stated before, Hino does not focus on the lower class vampires, so we’re not exactly sure the clear differences between the two. The discrimination towards Level D’s is likely because they are labeled as “former humans” aka “others.” Although, as victims of a vampire attack and as explained by the genetic difference, they shouldn’t even be considered as part of vampire society (not that they can necessarily be part of human society any longer), thus, being placed in the hierarchy. However, from an evolutionary perspective, they could be placed in the hierarchy as servants, which they appear to be.

[GOTSB’s reply:] I agree; it doesn’t seem Level Ds have any sort of status or place in vampiric society unless they’re directly serving their masters a la Seiren with Kaname or Isaya’s servants. From what I gathered, most Level Ds were simply abandoned to fend for themselves until they became Level Es and had to be disposed of (so basically they probably for the most part become homeless vagrants). <– speculation of course. But you’re right, we don’t know enough about the average vampires to be able to cite the differences; I think we encounter average vampires maybe once or twice as side characters, but we don’t get to find out much about them. Still, I think we are meant to “assume” that Level Ds are lowest in all vampiric traits, and that there is a difference between them and average Level Cs.

What this means: This would mean that vampirism is a disease in former humans because this would be a genetic disorder since the virus mutated the human genome with viral DNA. This establishes Level D’s as “fake vampires.”

[GOTSB’s reply:] I like this quite a bit, and it helps explain the differences between them better.

Issues/Arguments: As much as I would like this theory to be sound, it isn’t complete because I can’t pinpoint what area of the body the virus would hone in on. More so than that… I’ve never heard of an organism naturally carrying a virus that isn’t harmful to it as well, which is different from transmitting a virus/bacterium. That would be a really odd symbiotic relationship (O_o) As much as I would like to say there’s a different microbe (perhaps, in the saliva of Purebloods), it just wouldn’t make sense since I have never heard of any other microbe that could mutate an organism’s DNA.

[GOTSB’s reply:] Wait, organisms can’t carry around viruses that aren’t harmful to them as well? I know fleas carried bubonic plague–but I never knew the virus affected the fleas themselves. Is that how it normally is with carriers? Could it just be that the virus Purebloods carry has different effects in already-vampiric beings (kind of like how rabies manifests differently in humans than in dogs, for example)? (Obviously I have no clue here, but I had no idea this was the case and I find it quite fascinating. =D) As for a microbe that can mute DNA, well, we could maybe attribute that to the climate change perhaps? Or the fact that this is a different world than ours maybe, and so perhaps its micro-organisms have some different proclivities?

Evolutionary Benefit of “Turning”: We did briefly discuss this in some of our discussions about what could be a reason why Purebloods arose and why it would be necessary for them to be able to “turn” humans into their own kind.

Saving Humankind: Looking at it from a beneficial standpoint, it is true that it would prevent humans from getting ill and dying so soon. As you mentioned, this would only be necessary during the appearance of the Progenitors.

Survival of the Fittest: From the Purebloods’ perspective, being able to “turn” humans is a great benefit and ability. Evolution does not care about keeping peace within the two subspecies. In a lot of ways, evolution is even selfish because it is all about one’s own preservation. As such, I think the ability to “turn” humans into “vampires” is really just a means of survival for Purebloods and vampires. It gives Purebloods control over a person from a biological mechanism rather than a social construct (a tighter “leash”), further establishing a master-servant relationship. As masters, Purebloods can use their servants for primarily whatever they desire, be it blood, a weapon, or otherwise, which we see in the wars between the two subspecies.

[GOTSB’s reply:] I think this is a fair point you bring up, and it actually makes far more sense why the turned humans “serve” the Purebloods–they’re meant to ensure the Pureblood’s continued survival (despite the fact that Purebloods are immortal and have insane regenerative capabilities? LOL this is why it would have been better to make them weak or defenseless to something in order for this evolutionary need to make more sense fufu, but whatever).

Why Level D’s are different: To further establish them as servants, you would expect them to not be very strong, so they cannot rebel against vampires. Their higher frequency of bloodlust also forces them to be more dependent of Purebloods, meaning they cannot live without their masters, which could explain the difference between Level D and C vampires.

[GOTSB’s reply:] I think this is a great point. Plus their masters are the only way to stabilize them, which also by default makes them codependent on their masters, ensuring the system functions in the Pureblood’s favor.

Disease, Insanity, and Fall of Humanity: …I just love rhyming XD Ahem! All in all, I think it’s pretty straightforward why former humans should be viewed as having a disease.

[GOTSB’s reply:] When you’re sick, your inner poet comes out. XD

Disease: I said I would talk about why I don’t think Zero delaying his bloodlust is particularly special, so I’ll talk about that here. In short, you wouldn’t expect a virus to take over the body within a couple of minutes. Do not get me wrong, they do replicate incredibly fast. However, you’ll notice that it takes a while for you to see some symptoms and that later you succumb to the disease the virus is causing. I think this would be the same case with former humans. How long would it take for the virus to take over? I don’t know, it varies between viruses and it also varies between people (their immune systems) who are infected. That being said, it appears for Zero that it took him years (maybe months?) before he finally succumbed to his bloodlust, so in some ways, maybe that is a special trait of his?

[GOTSB’s reply:] So in this case the virus would act a bit more like HIV–you can carry it around for a while, and it may activate within a year or ten years. I like this, because it makes it more understandable why the turning rates are so different.

Loss of Sanity: As observed in Level E’s, Level D’s appear to lose their sanity and become obsessed with the thought of bloodlust (the fall to Level E). This could be a consequence of trying to escape the master-servant relationship between Purebloods and Level D’s. However, I also want to remind everyone that Level D’s are people that were originally human, so to have their life altered by desiring blood would harm them psychologically. Similarly to how in the beginning of Tokyo Ghoul Kaneki was unable to accept the fact that he lost his humanity and could no longer live as a human, I’d expect Level D’s to go through the same psychological torture - In fact, I think it would be the same pattern. I think Level D’s would go through weeks, maybe months of denial that they lost their humanity. As such, they would try to suppress and ignore their bloodlust because acting on it would make them have to view themselves as “monsters.” You would also expect them to be ashamed of the fact that they are no longer like the people (humans) that are around them and so they would probably isolate themselves, which also has psychological consequences (people need to be social in some way). Along with the trauma of being attacked by a Pureblood (or vampire in general), self-hate, isolation, and depression, I think it only makes sense that former humans would lose their sanity, and thus, fall to Level E with their bloodlust consuming them. This might also explain why Level E’s are unable to quench their thirst as blood does not seem to help their desire or their state of mind. I would not expect Purebloods to care about this and in times of war, the only people who would be affected would be humans, which again, helps Purebloods and vampires in general.

[GOTSB’s reply:] This coupled with the “call” of the Master/Servant bond (which we know about from Kaname’s memories) would be a very potent case for the fall to Level E, so I agree with you here. Plus these people are ostracized and isolated from all societies with nowhere to turn–vampires care little for them and humans would understandably fear them. To be turned traumatically and then enslaved or isolated would naturally lead to insanity, and then the bloodlust would just take over.

A cure: If we actually view vampirism in Level D’s as a cause of a virus, then, technically, there wouldn’t necessarily be a cure since viruses are so difficult to fight off. Since I’m in Microbiology, I also want to emphasize that there is a difference between bacteria and viruses since many bacteria are not harmful to us. In fact, some viruses, bacteriophages, can even harm bacteria. Harmful bacteria, however, are easier to treat (with an antibiotic). Moving on, I think it would make more sense for the characters to search for a cure for former humans since they are victims of being attacked by a Pureblood. It’s better than not giving former humans any form of compensation and simply waiting for them to “cause” their own demise (at the expense of their sanity) and kill them. It would be nice if they could shoot a drug at Level E’s instead that would knock them out and reverse the effects of the virus within some span of time, but due to the nature of viruses, it would be difficult to create something like this. If there were to be a cure, though, I think it would have to be something that could be administered within a short time span, say anywhere from 1 to 72 hours (72 hours would really be pushing it).

[GOTSB’s reply:] Well, right, if it’s viral there’d be nothing to be done for the currently turned Level Ds. All you could do is create an anti-virus to inculcate the population with. Sadly, I think the “cure” is going to be for the Purebloods only, as that seems to be the “problem” Aidou and co. care about, which is a shame because it ignores the suffering of the Level Ds/Es.

Why a single cure wouldn’t work: Well, first of all, I don’t even think they should look for a cure for vampires, which I’ll explain later (-_-) In any case, a single cure wouldn’t work because you would be targeting different genes for every single different class of vampire. I’ll also expand on this more in my next submission about why I do not agree with Aidou’s cure/research from why it doesn’t make sense scientifically to the ethics behind it.

[GOTSB’s reply:] Agreed with you that a single cure probably won’t work, though whether Hino agrees is up for debate (given that vampires are still around when Kaname awakens, though, methinks you’re onto something here–perhaps the “cure” Aidou makes only works for Purebloods, leaving Level Ds/Es in the cold). Looking forward to the rest of your thoughts on Aidou’s research and crap ethics! =)

So yeah… That’s all I got ’(^__^) I was hoping I could come up with a valid explanation of how Purebloods turn humans into vampires, but part of it fell through ( .__.) I guess you could theorize that Purebloods carry some sort of toxin/chemical that could act as a mutagen, but… that involves a lot of chemistry and probably *deep breath* ORGANIC CHEMISTRY, the most hated of all, and I do not know a lot of biologists that would happily explain chemistry XD Nonetheless, I hope you and everyone else found some of this interesting. Maybe you can create some other theories off of this.

Well, until next time!

[GOTSB’s reply:] Haha, I think you did a great job here, and even if it’s not complete, it’s much better than the surface level interpretations I started with, which were only vague thoughts. =) So thank you for taking the time to dive into this, and I’m looking forward to your next post if you still feel like chatting!

#vampire knight #vk science anon #submission

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