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troofless · 17 hours
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how is raven shorter than yuri/flynn
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troofless · 4 days
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Words left unspoken-- Flynn and the XBOX 360 ending
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Today, I finally wanted to make a post about something that might be a little obscure. Whether it truly is would depend on whether
a) you’ve watched/seen the original version of Vesperia,
or
b) you enjoyed the game through PS3 or Definitive Edition and have looked into the significant differences done between the same game.
To preface, I think it is no secret to anyone that the original 360 version did not have Flynn as a playable character, whereas Patty was just not present (though there was a hint in the original version, if my memory serves me right, that there were plans to implement her even before the ps3 version)
This is my warning to avoid reading further, as this entire post contains spoilers for the ending of the game, regardless of the version.
To make sure all readers are up to speed, it’s important to mention that Flynn is not brought along for Tarqaron in the 360 version. If the player wants to talk to him as an NPC, he would be present in Aurnion (and the Colosseum as an enemy if you’re doing the 100-man melee). Regardless, this significantly changes the progression of the ending cutscene, once you are able to defeat the end-game boss. I would suggest to take a few minutes to watch and compare the original vs updated ending, which I am providing now, below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e91L4AIKcyg The version used in PS3 and Definitive Edition.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgeMz8Vyocw The version used for the XBOX 360 version, in English.
[I want to mention that I think the part where the rest of the party runs up to Yuri is cute in both versions. In the older one, Yuri kneels to greet Repede! Um, they forgot Patty in the new version somehow, but I imagine she’s doing her Dream Star arte and is about to explode the others.]
Let’s put our focus on Flynn, though!
In the Definitive edition, you know that he approaches Yuri happily, and they both do their little handshake/high-five thing before running up to the others.
In the XBOX 360 version, we get something entirely different! We have Flynn looking up softly at the sky in order to declare his pride for Yuri, without Yuri ever being able to hear that, let alone know it was even said.
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Why does he not say it in the newer versions of Vesperia? Your guess is as good as mine, but I will still propose an idea: The moment was different.
Time and time again Flynn witnesses Yuri and the gang do so many good deeds without taking the proper credit for it. In the case of the original, Flynn is not playable, so he witnesses even less of what the party is doing. I think this cut away from the party perspective in the original to show Flynn is meant to assure the player (who usually may be controlling Yuri) that yes, he genuinely considers Yuri in that high of a regard. He doesn’t personally witness the defeat of the Adephagos in the original, so his only line of thought is to assume Yuri was able to defeat it himself. In fact, the original helps the viewer know that Flynn is perfectly certain this was Yuri’s doing.
Though Flynn goes through the same issue of Yuri refusing to take credit in all versions of the game, he is able to travel with the others and establish more of a bond (albeit awkwardly) with them in PS3 and onward. I think part of him not saying the pride line in those endings was also because he was generally relieved to see the Adephagos defeated with his own eyes. I assure you he probably still is proud of Yuri for it.
Let’s move on to a more interesting observation. Since the English XBOX 360 was very big for the west and there was no dual audio at the time, many players have missed out on how the line is spoken in the Japanese version of the original. So I wanted to compare them too!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5h6QoedZ9o&t=322s The 360 ending, in Japanese.
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INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER:
This part of my post isn’t meant to say which version is superior, but to discuss the choices done that make the lines both similar and different. Please keep this in mind I am saying this as a(n English) Language major thank you and godspeed.
Anyway, let’s put the lines together:
……君こそ僕の誇りだよ。親友 ...I am so proud to call you my friend, Yuri Lowell.
The website I’ve referred to for years by now does not offer a fan translation for the 360 version, but only for PS3 and on. In my experience playing the game in Japanese audio, watching my sibling play it in the dub, studying Japanese, I have found that the only significant times the fan-TL and the localization differ are when translating arte names. (Here is the website https://hyouta.com/vesperia/index.php?version=ps3p&locale=jp&compare=c2)
Some notes: こそ is used to put emphasis after pronouns. だよ is also used to put emphasis too, but in a very informal manner. Flynn typically ends many of his sentences with だ in Japanese, especially when he is speaking casually with Yuri and other party members. He even switches his first person pronoun depending if he’s on duty or not.
(for だよ: https://www.alexrockinjapanese.com/meaning-of-dayo-in-japanese-and-english-how-to-use/, for こそ: https://selftaughtjapanese.com/2015/10/22/japanese-word-koso-%E3%81%93%E3%81%9D-explained-in-detail/)
With my beginner-level Japanese, I will try to offer a translation of the former line, with the help of dictionaries such as https://jisho.org and the above resources to help me parse out a meaning.
“...You are my pride, close friend.” ← where arguably, switching close for the word dear might convey the message better. Frankly speaking, this ended up being the same translation as the one provided by a fluri quote bot that was used on twitter (pay respects for it no longer working).
Now, you might have noticed that I put an emphasis on ‘you’. Well, it’s because Flynn’s wording would be impossible to convey in the translation otherwise.
Let’s compare this and the official English localization! Several elements here are the same. They are marked:
...I am so proud to call you my friend, Yuri Lowell. ← Subject: I, Predicate: am, Complement: to call you. I’m not making the rest of the sentence now as it’s not that important. ...You are my pride, close friend. ← Subject: You, Predicate: are, Direct Object: my pride
So why is the English one so different? I can’t be truly sure, but even with a glance I can say that the syntactic construction is more complex, for one. I am interested in the switch between ‘pride’ and ‘proud’, with the former being a noun, the latter, an adjective.
What I also want to highlight here is that they ARE saying nearly the same thing. With the words ‘pride’ and ‘proud’ being able to be formed from one another, the meaning behind the words are not lost. In fact, when looking up the kanji for pride in the script of Vesperia, it is always translated interchangeably, depending on context.
If I must further simplify Flynn’s words, we get the following:
ENGLISH: I’m proud of my friend JAPANESE: (close) friend is my pride
depending on whether the difference is significant may be subjective.
Let’s determine the reasons /why/ the two versions wind up ultimately different while saying the same thing.
1. This is something my friend Choc pointed out. The possessive adjective. MY FRIEND vs MY PRIDE. When pulled from all context, the Japanese version comes out more intimate. But putting them back in it makes the scale more equal
I am proud + you are my friend = you are my pride + close friend
2. Troubles in translation: 親友 (しんゆう)
This kanji is not easy to translate. I’ve seen posts talking about it used in Naruto, where even there, it is difficult to emphasize the meaning in a translation. Even directly translating it like I did may come off awkward when in English. Translation and localization are one of the hardest parts of offering a Japanese text to non-Japanese speakers. And what can one do when the direct translation fails to impart the word?
You find other words that attempt to impart a similar connotation/meaning. This lies at the core of translation studies. It’s why a translator is REQUIRED to be a good speaker of the source and target language. The capability of having a wide range of vocabulary AS WELL AS being able to use it in the best placements are at the core of what one could consider a good translation. And even then, such a term is very subjective depending on which language speakers you ask. Especially when this comes to languages as different as English and Japanese.
But is 親友 truly lost in translation? I think the average English speaker is still able to infer that Flynn genuinely means his words in regards to Yuri. If not through one word, I think everything else that is said in done in the game is proof enough.
“I am so proud to call you…”
3. Cultural translations and implications
This point arose in further discussion between me and my friend Choc on the topic. Though I have operated with both lines saying they convey the same thing, I have not considered the semantics and cultural aspects of such phrases.
Firstly, Japanese is taught in a way where there is a large emphasis on formality. Most of what is seen in anime/manga/games can be considered at best informal and rude at worst. So it is important to keep such a thing in mind when looking at a Japanese texts. While we can translate something, we also need to understand how intimate it can be read, and subsequently, how would such a sentence come across in English.
“X is my pride” as a phrase is much less common than “I am proud of X”. And, subsequently, a speaker comes to alert if the former would be uttered. Why call someone the noun when you can describe them with the adjective?
This is speculative on my end but, in the case of Flynn’s line, I think it’s perfectly fine to say it’s intimate. That’s the intention! He and Yuri have known each other all their lives, and have been through the roughest parts in their relationship. They already speak informally with each other in Japanese, so such a line should not be too surprising, right?
Well, the perceived issue with using “You are my pride” in the localization could be that its meaning alters when it enters English. Semantically speaking, most English speakers would perceive this as romantically charged in most contexts. Part of it could be due to how direct it is when dissected syntactically, whereas the official localization lengthens the sentence and makes it more complex. In personal experience, many sentence structures I’ve already learned in Japanese are short and direct. Though Flynn’s line breaches intimacy, the structure is not why, but because of “こそ” and “だよ” that I mentioned earlier. Once more, the direct translation would in theory create a miscommunication of intention in the translation.
Ultimately, the most devastating part of Flynn’s line is the fact that Yuri will never be around to witness it. Yes, Flynn is still pretty direct with his feelings, we have that one line before the Aurnion fight, and it seems he can still convey his feelings non-verbally in a fight. But for someone who begins the story as demotivated and depressed, continues on to a point where his self-esteem plunders further, and manages to find what he wants to do while holding certain unhealthy ideas about Flynn (such as putting him on a pedestal, check the conversation with Sodia in Nor), Yuri probably really should hear those words, even if he is allergic to praise or positive affirmations aimed at him.
Ultimately, what can be done as a result is to ponder ideas after the end of the story and hope that Flynn eventually actually uses his words. But who’s to say! What did I do for this? I made edits. This is your reward for making it through my post. Maybe someday I’ll post them separately too.
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Thanks for reading. Flynn Scifo is gay
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troofless · 5 days
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troofless · 8 days
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Birds of a feather
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troofless · 8 days
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i just realised but does repede just vanish for the entire of the boat scene chasing ragou or something because i swear when the boat capsizes we can't find him, plus we know repede is semi scared of water
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troofless · 9 days
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why does yuri look so happy when he says he can't learn magic cos he sucks at studying...
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troofless · 9 days
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starting my second playthrough of vesperia! this time on jp dub. some things i noted:
going to the royal quarter:
the capital is divided into royal, citizen and lower quarter
speaking to the nobles there ask if yuri is here to get water
jailbreak:
getting beaten up after escaping prison doesn't result in a gameover, but a cutscene where yuri goes back to jail and escapes, and then encounters the guard who says, 'again??'
yuri mentions in english that he's been in the knights for 3 months in japanese dub he doesn't mention the exact duration
freedom, royal quarter:
there's a krityan you can talk to that mentions he's in the imperial council!
there's another krityan you can talk to that mentions that he should he protested yuri's innocence when he was arrested (he doesn't know he was talking to yuri tho lol)
citizen's quarter
talking to the shop mentions that yuri is zaphias's idol lmao
there's a krityan that mentions that the lower quarter people are nice, establishing once again that krityans are different from nobles/people in zaphias lol
there's a kind lady that tells yuri if he needs water to bring some from the citizen quarter
lower quarter
without the blastia the water is filthy, but you learn that from flavour text earlier when you examine the fountain. hanks says that they'll have to get some from the river but they'll get the runs, but doesn't mention getting some from the higher quarters
take a shot everytime a lower quarter citizen mentions flynn when you talk to them...
talk to the innkeeper and she yells at yuri in a motherly fashion like the knights are after you! why are you still here! what have you done! lol
speaking to her husband beside him says that his wife was worried about yuri lol
the innkeeper's daughter(?) is jealous seeing estelle with him lol this becomes a running joke as more people join the group
in fact a lot of people comment on estelle saying oh yuri so you went to the royal quarter to pick up girls huh
SPEAKING TO THE OLD MAN TELLS US A STORY OF HOW THE OTHER DAY HE MET A LONG HAIRED WOMAN THAT TURNED OUT TO BE A GUY AND THEN HE SAYS WAIT IT MINUTE IT WAS YOU YURI AND TELLS YURI TO CUT HIS HAIR (this is a continuation from if you spoke to the man when the fountain breaks bc that was the day b4)
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troofless · 9 days
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Flynn at the Dahngrest cooking competition, colorized
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troofless · 9 days
Video
In which Yuri Lowell literally FLINGS his sword sheath STRAIGHT OFF THE TOP OF A HILL
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troofless · 9 days
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troofless · 9 days
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The entirety of ToV
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Idol
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・゚☾ *✧ .dawn. // Enforcer
ref: x // twitt: x // prints: x
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troofless · 9 days
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TALES OF VESPERIA COLLAB WITH DASHSTORE!!!
including new visual and art! (latter of which is done by twitter user @yume335)
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troofless · 9 days
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one day, karol decides to fund therapy
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troofless · 9 days
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It’s Flynn Freaking Scifo again!!!
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