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#you (like me) can have a deep emotional attachment to tolkien's work and still acknowledge all of these things.
fluentisonus · 4 years
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morwensteelsheen · 3 years
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@tinacharles replied to your post:
where would the kings of rohan essentially having to hold together the east and west fold fit in do you think? makes it seem even more precarious than gondor which despite the provinces etc feels a bit more centralized?
Yes!!!! I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately (and holy shit I am NOT a military historian so please forgive however many inaccuracies I'm about to include here, BUT…), and one of the things I’ve been wondering about is if this popular vision of Gondor as structured as a Western European feudal state is a little misleading. Insofar as I can see it now, the fanon take on Gondor’s governance is a little bit like England post-Magna Carta, which is to say it looks like this:
You have a King/Steward at the top, who is imbued with some element of divine justification for his rule. The land of the kingdom is his (in essence--and I mean that definitionally, the essence of the land is his), and is rented out to various other actors, namely...
The aristocracy beneath him. Though the land is technically the king’s and leased to them, in practicality the land (and the peasants attached to it!) is theirs, and because of that, they have an immense amount of power. The bigger and the more resource-rich the land, the more important and wealthier the lord who maintains it. The landed aristocrats (because it is possible to have non-landed aristocrats!) have enough power to effectively “check” the King—and a big part of that power comes from their ability to raise armies. As far as raising armies are concerned, they are led by the aristocrats who raise them, and those aristocrats are in turn loyal to the King (but can just as easily not be, hence the somewhat weakened power of the central authority).
Then you have the non-landed aristocrats, so these are mostly perfunctory titles given to make people feel good.
And lastly the soldiers, the peasantry, the urban poor, etc.
I think that that take is wrong for Gondor—if it’s not technically canonically wrong, then it’s certainly less interesting—but right for Rohan. Importantly, that level of inequity engendered between the power of the aristos and the power of the King would explain, for example, why Éomer (as heir to the Lordship of Aldburg, according to the UT) could be leveraged so effectively by Gríma as a threat to Théoden and Théodred’s power, and it would explain why (at least in part) all of Théoden’s family were so hesitant to do anything public with getting Gríma the fuck out: admitting the King had shown any weakness at all could be seriously risky business. Plus, as you point out, it fits in nicely with the Eastfold and Westfold pulling away from one another—different areas, different interests, and less overall allegiance to a central authority (and a weakened “national” narrative to boot) meaning the King himself really needs to have a vise grip on the regions to keep it all together.
The one place where this falls down somewhat is the decentrality of the army (sorry I'm just making up words every five seconds here lol)—we know Rohan’s army is at least somewhat centralised based on, well, every description of it that we get. We can account for it in this model by saying that while the army is centralised, the economics (grain production, taxation, etc.) are not, so the Kings are still fairly beholden to their vassal lords, AND, we can point to Folcwine having substantially reorganised the Éoherë and say that while he split it into roughly three-ish columns of riders, all he actually did was shift around the numbers for the regional lords to muster and institute an unlanded title (the Marshals of the Mark) to take up the task of administering the army, without substantially rebalancing power within the kingdom. So the bulk of the power to raise the Éoreds still rests with the regional lords, meaning keeping them happy and in line is a major part of the work of the king.
So that set-up works for Rohan, but not for Gondor. Gondor, I think, is probably best organised around [byzantine gondor klaxon] the Eastern Roman themata system. After the 600s-ish, the Byzantine Empire began to make more extensive use of a system put in place by Diocletian that is, as far as I can tell, basically a variation on the US Homestead Acts with a military component. It goes something like this:
Land is granted to soldiers (and it’s important here to note that they start as soldiers first, not farmers), to farm. The soldiers’ pay was docked for having the land, but the farming land was typically more valuable anyway, so it was a good deal. As long as the soldiers agreed that their descendants would continue to farm the land AND serve in the military, all was good. And this descendant stuff is important because it means even the people on the lowest rung of the power structure have some sort of emotional tie to the state—they grow up expecting to be part of it in some small way, and so generally feel a greater sense of allegiance to Gondor™ than, for example, in Rohan where they’re tied to the land that’s owned by, say, Lord Erkenbrand of the Deeping Coomb, who is broadly loyal to the Kings but could at any moment flip, leaving the peasantry functionally disconnected from the King and the Riddermark generally.
The theme system is also important because it means you don’t need to do conscription (which is kinda sucky and unpopular) and you have guarantees on both farmers and soldiers, which is an excellent way to occupy your able-bodied population pretty much round the clock, reducing both the likelihood of rebellions and maximising your population’s general efficiency—sounds to me sort of like what Faramir’s on about in Window on the West! It’s also great because it means you can settle conquered lands quickly and easily.
Above these farmer-soldiers in the power schema was something like a regional governor, who was in charge both civilly and militarily. This looks a lot like your classical Western European feudal lord, and is functionally pretty similar, except in that they don’t own ALL of the lands the peasants work, most of that actually belongs to the central authority and is leased directly to the peasantry. This sort of explains how Faramir can credit the expansion/maintenance of Gondor explicitly to the Stewards (“but the Stewards were wiser…” in TTT) instead of having to acknowledge the underling lords—and assuming he’s not just being a blowhard about it—because that leasing of the land would actually be the prerogative of the Steward (in the name of the King) and not the Lords of the Pinnath Gelin or the Prince of Dol Amroth or whoever.
Then there’s an ENORMOUS bureaucracy and administrative wing to the central state. Genuinely enormous, filled with lots of vanity titles (Warden of the Keys, anyone?) and basically helps to keep the administrative state running, reducing the amount of actual clerical work both the central authority and the outlying lords/governors have to do. This makes the bureaucracy quite powerful, but makes the central authority (King/Steward/whoever) even more powerful because he leads it.
Then there’s the interesting pseudo-democratic element inherited from the Roman Empire, which actually goes some of the way to explaining some of the subtext to my initial question about Faramir’s behaviour at the coronation; there's the remnants of the Senate, which technically elected the emperors of the Byzantine Empire (though had waning influence as the centuries wore on). A senate, obviously, is quite different to whatever the fuck it is that Faramir does, but that sort of popular approval for the king is nonetheless interesting and notable, and we can probably assume Tolks knew something of it when he was writing.
Sorry I wrote... way too much here, I am procrastinating v hard from work lol. Anyways yeah I think this is basically where I'm at vis a vis their relative governmental structures. I'm having a bit of a moment as well because Dante Alighieri has this whole take on the Empire and Catholicism, and I think that's actually probably influencing Tolkien somewhere along the line (and is definitely relevant, if nothing else, for how I think about the governments in LOTR), but I haven't had the brain energy to try to incorporate that yet lol
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kbrown78 · 5 years
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Book Talk: Fall Reading Recommendations
Now I promised @thebookspace that I would do this post and it's one I'm excited for because I have so many books that I want to talk about for autumn recommendations. Based on my favorite books and general preferences I can easily give recommendations for autumn or winter. I know people usually get busy with school, but the cold winds, long nights, and beautiful colors makes it a great time to curl up with a good long book. With Halloween it's also a great time to tackle some scary reads, if you can handle that. I looked through all of my books and picked books that I thought had the right “feel” for fall, as well as a few other categories that I specify. I hope that find some new favorite reads in this list, and if you would like me to make any more recommendation lists please let me know. Enjoy!
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Harry Potter series by J.K Rowling: Might as well get the most obvious one done first. This features a whole school dedicated to witches and wizards, with each year getting increasingly harder for Harry and his friends. The entire series also starts on Halloween, which is when I plan on starting the rereading the process of the entire series. If you haven't read this series yet, you need to get on it.  
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Wayward Children series by Seanan McGuire: While I would categorize the third book, Beneath the Sugar Sky, as more of a summer book, the first two, and especially the second one, I would definitely say are autumn recommendations. The premise of this series is that there is a school for children that have come back from portal worlds to help them readjust to their world again. Each book follows a different character, over different time lines. The first book, Every Heart a Doorway, has that feeling of going back to school, with the main character Nancy and adjusting to the new environment and meeting new people. Despite the books short length I thought the book was very well written and got quite attached to these characters. The second book is more of a Halloween type book. It takes place before the events of the first book and follows a set of twins that were previously introduced. Half of this book takes place in a world called the Moors, and it has this very Gothic feel to it with a red moon and Dr. Frankenstein and vampires. While I did still enjoy this book, I didn't love it as much as the first one (which is kind of an unpopular opinion), but the series is still great and if you want something quick to read with Halloween right around the corner, I would recommend this series and particularly the second book, Down Among the Sticks and Bones.
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October Daye series by Seanan McGuire: Another series by Seanan McGuire, I'm currently in the middle of reading the first book, Rosemary and Rue. I finally started this series because it's October, so it seemed appropriate. The series is an urban fantasy that revolves around the fae that live in California. The protagonist is a half human/ half fae woman that works as a private investigator. I'll admit this book has more of a crime noir novel feel to it then I was expecting, but I don't mind it and the fantasy elements of the story tie in well to the murder mystery. I'm enjoying it so far, I like how the fae are all different and I like the main character, October, because she's very human and has moments when she's not likeable. Since I haven't finished reading yet, I can't give my full opinion, but if you like the Wayward Children series then you'll probably enjoy this one, although this series gets a lot darker than that one does.    
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Nightfall by Jake Halpern: This is a book that is geared more toward a younger YA audience, but I read it when I was 17 and still enjoyed it. It's about 3 teens on an island that will soon have 14 years of darkness, and these 3 teens get left behind, but they aren't alone. I will say there were some things about it at the end that I didn't like, and I'll discuss it more in my review to avoid spoilers. Most of the book was suspenseful and there were a few times I was genuinely terrified while reading this. The book seems to tap into everyone's primal fears: being isolated, darkness, the unknown, and really makes a terrifying story utilizing these fears. I think of it as a Stephen King novel for young readers, but even as an adult you can still be frightened of it. There's also a companion sequel, but I haven't read it so I can't comment on it.  
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The Call by Peader O' Gullin: Okay, I've been gushing about this book on here since I finished rereading it. Needless to say it's amazing and would make a great spooky read. The entire atmosphere is haunting, an isolated Ireland, murderous fairies. It's an under appreciated horror novel (yes, I classify it as horror because of how much graphic violence there is), and while I have a few issues with the ending I think everyone should read this, if you don't mind violence (seriously there are some pretty horrific mutations). There is a sequel but I feel that this one wrapped everything up fine, and I haven't heard good things about the sequel.
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Good Omens by Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchet: While I count American Gods as more of a winter read, this one of Neil Gaiman's books is definitely for fall. It's a humorous twist on Christian Mythology and the apocalypse, featuring several odd characters (some supernatural, some not) it's ultimately about trying to stop the oncoming apocalypse. Co-written with Terry Pratchet, there's something very human about the story, poking fun at our habits and tenancies. I promise it has it's funny moments, and I actually laughed out loud reading this, a  feat no other book has managed to accomplish. Any fan of Neil Gaiman or Terry Pratchet and anyone looking for humorous fantasy or stories with angels and demons in them will enjoy this novel.
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A Monster Calls by Patrick Ness: This one can be read as either an autumn or winter read, really works for any cool day when you have time to curl up and read a good book. It's atmospheric and the illustrations that go along with it are award winning for a reason. It's a great story that is well told and emotional. It's about a young boy that is facing the harsh reality of his mother dying, when one night he is visited by a “monster.” I read this book in one sitting and was crying by the end, so that should speak to how good this is.
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The Night Circus by Erin Morgenstern: Similar to the previous one, this could work in both of the cold seasons. I put it on this list for the magic, the circus, and the atmosphere. It is a book that just pulls you in, in more than one way. The descriptions and aesthetics of this story evoke all the senses, but there also snippets that directly address the audience. It's a beautiful story that has something for everyone, and I strongly recommend going into this one blind, so I won't say anymore other than it's really good.  
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Warm Bodies by Issac Marion: If you've seen the movie I recommend the book. I read the book before the movie came out and I really liked it. It takes place during a zombie apocalypse, and the twist to this generic narrative. It's all from the point of view of a zombie. Yes, apparently zombies have deep thoughts, they're just not good at expressing them (there are a few funny moments in this story. It's been a long time since I've read this book (need to a reread so I can get to the sequel) but I remember enjoying it and I think anyone looking for a good apocalypse series will like this.
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Memoirs of Lady Trent by Marie Brennan: Based off of the title, you wouldn't think that it's a fall read, but it's a life story about a woman who's a dragon naturalist. Really cool! It's a completed 5 book fantasy of manners series, and it's great. The storytelling is great, the characters are great (particularly the titular Lady Trent), and there are plenty of dragons. I like that this story takes an analytic angle at dragons, instead of just depicting them as mythic treasure hoarders. I acknowledge that the series isn't everyone's cup of tea, but it's fun, it's funny, and there's depth put to all aspects of the story. For anyone looking for a fall fantasy read that isn't epic or scary, I highly recommend this series.
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The Hobbit by J. R.R Tolkien: Like the previous entry, this one also has a dragon, but it's a very classic fantasy novel about a band of dwarves journeying to reclaim their home from the dragon that stole it from them. It's a good adventure story that works for the fall because of the setting. If you want to read Tolkien but are intimidated by the Lord of the Rings, then this makes for a good place to start since it's much shorter (also ties into how Bilbo got the ring in the first place). Also if you weren't a big fan of the movies that came out, read the book, it's a bit different (and better).  
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Night Shift by Stephen King: This is a collection of short stories by Stephen King. There are actually a few anthologies that I would like to mention (Tales of the Peculiar and Robots vs Fairies) but I would like to talk this one because it's Stephen King. I admit I haven't read any of his novels, although most of them would be great for fall. I was honestly terrified by the majority of stories in this bind up. It plays on so many fears and has that psychological element to them. I admit there are some stories that are better than other, but I promise that there is a story in here for everyone that will cause you to sleep with the lights on.    
Books I've Read That Work But I Personally Didn't Like: Monsters of Verity series (as the name implies there are plenty of monsters in this series, but overall it was a crappy series that I think should have just been one book), Gemma Doyle series (the first one is good and I would recommend if you like historical fantasy but the other 2 are abysmal), Three Dark Crowns series (as of recently finishing rereading the first book, there's a really bad love triangle that creates about 70% of the drama in this book, but the world itself is dark and with 3 sisters being fated to kill each other definitely makes for a good October read), Uprooted (haunted woods with sorcery, while I didn't hate this novel I think at best it's mediocre, but I'm in the minority), The Abhorsen trilogy (the necromancy and world of Death are awesome, but the first book had a frustrating second half and I hated the most of the second book).
Books I Haven't Read but I Think Would Be Good: Dracula (the original vampire novel, my Dad keeps bugging me to read it and one day I will), Frankenstein (I've heard that it's dense but I'm a fan of Mary Shelley and this is a classic Halloween novel with deeper themes about man and creation), House of Leaves (this one is always recommended and I honestly have no idea what it's about but it's very big and I've heard it's a very involved read), Winter Tide (an adult fantasy series inspired by the Cthulhu mythos, which I know nothing about), The Raven Cycle series (this strikes me as both a summer and fall read because of it's eerie atmosphere and Southern setting, along with hints of magic), Sunshine (vampires with baking), Toil and Trouble (recently released anthology that contains 15 stories about witches, sounds fun), The Starlit Woods (an anthology containing fairy tale retellings, and not just the better known ones, I've been wanting to read this one for awhile), Unwind series (creepy concept where abortions are illegal but instead at 13 parents can 'unwind' their kids)
Authors That In General Are Great For Fall: Shirley Jackson (writes mysteries/ thrillers, appropriate with the recent release of the Haunting of Hill House show), Stephen King (the king of horror himself, admittedly I've only read the Night Shift but it was really good and I do plan on reading other works of his), Daphne Du Maurier (writes suspenseful novels with a Gothic feel to them), Seanan McGuire (already mentioned 2 of her series but she has plenty of other novels and series, both as Seanan McGuire or Mira Grant)  
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