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#why would someone want to harass people over a FICTIONAL ship
profictionoverhaul · 2 years
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Non-controversial take.
I don't get involved in discourse much, but if I go onto your account and see you reblogging a lot of stuff from an account and that account has some shit like "xxxxx people should die <3" right in their bio/pinned, I'm going to block you without hesitation. Because like, you can clearly see it right there when you click on their account, meaning you're okay with that sort of stuff? And I don't vibe with that.
Telling anyone to die or insinuating they should off themselves/be killed, I do not vibe with that energy. I don't want you interacting with my stuff if you agree with that sort of awful behavior, even if you yourself aren't doing it, supporting people who actually do it is virtually the same in my eyes and I will not unblock you either.
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I’m not trying to attack you, but do you know that proshipper means someone who supports and romanticizes pedophilia, incest, and abuse? Your reblog on that post seems to read that you think antis just hate on people for having ships they don’t like. But it’s completely different than that. Just looking on the proshipper side of Tumblr and the internet and you can see people happily shipping children and adults and making nsfw content of such things.
i appreciate that you're not being outright hostile, but i have to say, that on its own put you above basically every anti i've interacted with.
i understand where antis are coming from, i really do. there are a lot of things on the internet that make me deeply uncomfortable, including the minor/adult ships that you mention. i don't want to anything to do with those kinds of ships and i would be happiest if i never saw them again. which is why i'm proship.
nine times out of ten, if i see that kind of ship brought up on my dash, it's because i was following an anti without realizing it, and they brought it up unprompted and untagged, to talk about how bad it is that they exist. they are the ones putting that kind of content in front of my face and making it harder to avoid.
the thing about people who ship those ships is that they're generally very aware that not everyone wants to see that kind of content, and so they tag it. they make sideblogs to talk about it. they don't go out of their way to shove it in people's faces. that means i, and everyone else who doesn't like it, can avoid it.
what antis want is for it to not exist at all. they want the tags to be purged and blocked, and for anyone who uses those tags to have their accounts deleted. and sure, that might get rid of some of it, but do you know what would happen to the rest? it would stop being tagged. people who don't want to see it wouldn't have the tools to avoid it. this isn't just a hypothetical, that's what's happened any time a fan space has tried to do that.
that's not even getting into the rabbit hole of what should be banned and what shouldn't. obviously any content that depicts real children or real life abuse shouldn't exist and shouldn't be allowed to be posted, but basically any platform that people use already enforces those policies, and there's not much of a slippery slope to go down there. if it involves real living breathing people being abused, it's bad. end of discussion.
but the same can't be said for fiction. ask ten antis for a specific list of all the content that should be banned, and you'll get ten different answers. what about kink? what about roleplay? what about horror and murder and anything that involves fictional characters being graphically tortured? what about people using art to process terrible things that have happened to them? what about art that uses dark themes as a horror element? if you just want to ban anything questionable to anyone, that's the line of thinking that gets any mention of lgbt existence banned. and again, this isn't just a hypothetical, this has happened before, and that's generally where it leads.
i know, from personal experience, that antis do, in fact, send harassment to people just for shipping things they don't like. i've gotten accused of absolutely vile shit for shipping two fictional characters who were both consenting adults. i've seen ship wars turn into moral battlegrounds, over ships that an average person wouldn't bat an eye at.
the thing about "romanticization" is a whole other can of worms. the anti logic goes like this: if someone sees something (even if it's very obviously fictional) in a positive light enough times, they will start thinking it's okay in real life, and go on to hurt real people. the problem with that is that it's just. blatantly untrue.
if it were true every horror movie fan would be a serial killer, every person that studies dark media would be an unhinged psychopath, and everyone who is into ddlg would be a pedophile. but they're not. they just aren't. people have directed movies just as fucked up as the darkest shit on ao3, and are still capable of being normal human beings who know right from wrong in real life.
even if someone is that impressionable, scrubbing away the existence of every piece of questionable content isn't going to solve their problem, because they're still going to be vulnerable to con men, scams, and cultists. the only thing that would actually materially help someone like that is developing their own morals and critical thinking.
children are also more impressionable, and there's a lot of content that's not suitable for them, but that doesn't mean that content shouldn't exist. it just means that they should stick to spaces designed for them (which most social media sites, tumblr included, are not) or, if they're old enough to be responsible for their experience online, they, or a trusted adult in their lives, should block and filter out things that they aren't comfortable with.
which is what everyone on the internet should be doing. it's what i do, and it's made the internet a much more pleasant place to be. and it's why i sometimes worry for antis mental health, especially teenagers, because they're being told it's right and moral to seek out content that makes them uncomfortable and to engage with the people making it. and that's just. really bad. it's not good for the creators that they're harassing obviously, but it's also really bad for them! it's not healthy to seek out things that make you feel bad, and it's a terrible internet safety lesson to teach minors that it's okay for them to seek out and engage with people making adult content.
individual harassment and crusading is never going to succeed at removing dark content from the internet. it just isn't. at best you might get a small percentage of people who create that content to stop sharing it, at worst you're just going to make people stop tagging it, and either way, you're exposing yourself to things that make you feel bad, when you don't have to.
if you want to materially change the type of content you see, you can. the block button is your friend, use it liberally. same with content filtering and tag blocking.
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pretty-weird-ideas · 1 month
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Harassment Against Black Blogs Over My Post
After I made my post about racist blogs in the IWTV fandom, unrelated blogs have been intentionally harassed in my stead to continue a harassment campaign against THEM and also keep away from having to do work to harass and discredit me.
As I have said before, come on, hit me. Don't act silly. Hit me. I said nalyra-dreaming is a racist for the fact that she liked and defended a racist post regarding affirmative action and reverse racism. ME. I posted that of my own volition in the comfort of my own home. Deflecting with "Random black blogs that AREN'T this person said this" wake up, I said it.
"Well, the racism allegations are a deflection because this OTHER black blog is conspiring to-"
You're a goofy motherfucker and it doesn't suit you. Take the clown costume off, you've worn it for so long that it's gotten musty.
If you want to hit someone, hit me. It's very obvious that these bloggers are deciding between:
Start digging on a blog that has nothing to dig for
Continue a harassment campaign that's already happened against black blogs with minimal effort or explanation as to why they are getting hit still
You are forgetting that I made these statements, that I have posted about fandom racism, and that I have not gotten involved in any of this. And that was intentional, racists like we are seeing today (white, nonblack, and sufferers of internalized hatred) are now pointing to "ship wars" to deflect from real-life racist political beliefs that have NOTHING to do with fiction. I stay FAR away from that shit on purpose, with the intent that people would have nothing to deflect to when the going gets rough. I follow black fans who are antiracist regardless of their shipping opinions, and regardless of what they think in regards to fandom.
Like I said in the original post, I would never let someone do to them, as they have done to me and other black fans. I would not sit up there and let fans start a real racist political grift so that I can get one-up on black fans I do not like or disagree with. I cut that shit down fast.
So instead of digging on me, to deflect, they would rather find other users and drag them and hope it kicks up enough of a stink that users forget the posts that started it all this week.
160 notes on my post about this subject, 300+ on others, and suspiciously someone comes out with a hitlist of mostly black fans that they already dislike to deflect. It was because it's advantageous to attack blogs that they already didn't like and had beef with.
Did hundreds of people suddenly become unable to research or read things for themselves when they liked and reblogged?
Or are we fully investing in the grift that black anti-racists just puppet around white people using "White guilt" along with the reverse racism song and dance?
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imptwins · 1 month
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ALRIGHT, no more messing around I suppose.
Over the last twelve months my close friend @kimberlyeab and myself have been the targets of sustained harassment by a series of "anti-ship" accounts, that may or may not be the same person, that I am not going to name up here because I do not want to give them any more traffic than necessary. This is over some of the content we make, 18+ fiction revolving around Undertale and Deltarune, and sometimes involving dark kinks. I'm going to ask you to put aside whether you think this is immoral for the moment.
Under the break below is what I wrote a few hours ago. Things have since escalated. Both myself and Kim have been targeted by email bombs on our business emails, services/bots that spam your email address with garbage signups, rendering your email address completely unusable. At worst, this can overwhelm your email service so much that your account is unable to process new emails and is eventually disabled by the provider. I'm still getting bursts of activity after over 200 emails, so I'm not sure if it's dying down, or if it's so backlogged that this is what's happening.
This is literally a crime, by the way. It's classified as cyber abuse.
On top of this, whoever has done this has access to personal information. A full legal name, first and last, was used in several of the signups, so they are either implicitly threatening to doxx us, or simply flexing that they could. Likewise a crime.
Additionally, this seems well coordinated, but there are no suspicious recent results for us in The Usual Places. This makes me believe this person is probably using some foul back-alley site like KF to organize this. I don't think the legal name in question could have been acquired by one person, it's extremely difficult to trace back.
tl;dr: whoever is doing this knows their way around the internet and is actively dangerous, they are severely impeding our lives and have the potential to become incredibly, incredibly dangerous.
Why am I posting this? Not really to get those accounts in trouble (although you should absolutely stay the hell away from them, and severely scrutinize anything they leave a mark on). I don't think they'll be punished, nor would it help since they constantly block evade, and at this point I don't think this recent online abuse crap is actually them, just someone attaching themself to their crusade. Though I'm not sure.
What I want to illustrate is how these kind of callout posts feed into targeted harassment of minorities. This is just another reason why things that make you uncomfortable should be dealt with by curating your experience using tags and blacklists and blocks, rather than trying to assign moral value to what people make. If my content makes you that uncomfortable I *actively encourage* you to block me.
It doesn't matter whether you personally dislike minorities or not, or whether you're subconsciously targeting them, or whatever. Someone else who does will latch on. That person who writes nothing but callout posts, yet they're always for small trans creators who make some 'icky stuff' and never for big-name bigots who parade their bigotry out in the open; is it because they're a sock puppet of an overt reactionary, or just because they want to feel some control over their life so they subconsciously focus on vulnerable people?
Simple: you can't know.
These people are the dangerous ones. Not people who just make content, properly tag it, and mind their own business. But these people, obsessed with ruining other people, with finding 'evil' in the world so that they can purge it? You can find their name below if you really want, and literally their entire blog is just constant callouts, broadcasting people doing callouts, trying to network with other people who do callouts. This is why these people were originally called 'antifans', their entire fandom presence is centered around tearing other people to shreds.
Do your due diligence and fact-check, before you broadcast that someone in your fandom did something awful. Make sure they actually hurt someone. I know mega-bastards will use 'you can't prove it' as an excuse, but actually analyze it a bit. It's almost always painfully obvious, I know, I spent years doing antifascism. And more than anything else, neither entertain, nor broadcast, nor embolden the kind of people who dedicate their entire existences on the internet to lateral abuse. Not just these particular ones, but ANYONE who dedicates their life to this online torch-waving garbage over fictional content. Whether they're a reactionary or just projecting trauma, whether they actually hate x y or z minority or they just happen to always go for the most vulnerable people, whether the person they're targeting makes content that makes you feel very icky and gross or not, these self-ordained Crusaders are consistently, unquestionably, dangerous.
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That's one page out of 4. Also some of them have between 10 and 80 updates in the one email from the same address. There's about 300 emails all up. And there's zero reason they can't do this again.
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Anyway. The accounts in question are @snowcollecter/@brieffamilycat/@krispy-chicken-shipping/@bonniehbunny. First two are definitely them, I highly suspect the latter two are their main, or at the very least someone who constantly signal boosts them. We have endured over 12 months of:
calling for brigades against us, and at least 4 other people
block dodging to constantly screenshot and reference our posts
literal libel by accusing us of grooming a child despite screenshots, as well as both statements and direct requests to stop by both the supposed groomed child and their actual friends who witnessed all interactions we had
spamming anon asks to literally every single person that they can find who we ever interact with
using tiktok cen)sor)ship nonsense to get past peoples' blacklists and force this stuff in front of them
using no less than 3 confirmed alts with about 5 more extremely suspicious accounts in attempts to artificially broadcast themself and again evade blocks (when the original account itself is transparently an alt too)
joining multiple random discords to try to shove this stuff in peoples' faces
now spamming Kim's business email at signup services
probably being behind the attempts to doxx and raid us last year on a certain hate-monger website, since the signup spam demonstrates they're cool with bog standard channer troll tactics
They also pretty tellingly refused to even talk to this minor we supposedly groomed, who attempted to tell them personally that we hadn't done the shit they claim we did. You'd think someone who is this caught up about the safety of minors in fandom spaces would jump at the chance to help this kid, to tell them not to talk to us and get them away from us, to convince them to stay away? No, they said 'I don't talk to minors' (this is demonstrably untrue: their discord accounts are in many all-ages spaces) and immediately blocked them.
Of course. Because this was never about the safety of minors. Flip a coin; if it's heads, they're a far-right sock puppet who just knows they can use the 'think of the children' angle to drive a wedge into queer communities. If it's tails, they're just a routine runt who's projecting their lack of ability to do anything about the ACTUAL assholes of this world onto other queer people, wailing and flailing and doing anything they can to have some influence despite getting 3 notes on almost everything they ever post. Hence the anon asks, and Discord spam, and blacklist/block evading. If they can't have a platform - because anyone who looks at their garbage for more than a month at most sees how absolutely deranged they are - they'll just force people to see it.
Do they ever attack actual transphobes, which this fandom is not at all short on? Well, sort of! They did one or two callout posts about a TERF who used to run in these spaces... But didn't say anything about the TERF shit. Just the porn. The porn constantly put behind age confirmations and thorough tags/content warnings. This person spouted generic 'all-powerful trans lobby' 'social contagion' 'please look at this study about desistance I found on a hard-right website' bullshit, but no, it was them drawing aged-up highschoolers (REMINDER: NOT EVEN CANONICALLY UNDERAGE, JUST VAGUE HIGHSCHOOLERS, *AND* THEY WERE EXPLICITLY OLDER IN THEIR CONTENT!) that was apparently the greater evil.
I'm not even really sharing this to call them specifically out or draw attention to them. Regardless of whether they're a chud in a mask or just someone who severely, *severely* needs psychological help about their obsession, they're not going to stop. They've made that plainly obvious. At this point I've basically just accepted I'm going to have this deranged stalker until I leave the fandom, which I don't plan to do anytime soon so buckle up I guess.
No, I just want people to see what these people are like. How they ignore the people they claim are victims. How they employ the same tactics as doxxing websites and old channer trolls, or even outright enlist them. How they only EVER put sustained effort into taking down queer people with small platforms because going after the in-plain-sight actual bigots and scumbags would just be too much effort, a reflection of how this is about feeling righteous and powerful, not actually making the world better. They create nothing, they contribute nothing, they bring nothing but arguing and drama and isolation to the spaces they inhabit.
These kind of people are blights on the fandoms they cling to. And any time you act like their *miserable* Hays Code, Jack Thompson With A Rainbow Flag, no kink at pride, BDSM is abuse, drag queens are indecent, cover those ankles *garbage* warrants any notice at all, you deal another blow to the fandom you are in, because nobody wants to be around these little goddamn nightmares. edit: I know how red-flag any grooming allegations are, if you want the full story to that I already addressed it here. tl;dr, no, we did not let a child look at our porn let alone show it to them, we in fact stopped them from doing so. We are not in some secret private 18+ server with them, we actively ensured they STOPPED making themself unsafe, and have strained extremely, extremely hard to keep our very limited interactions with them transparent, scrutinizable, and appropriate. The only reason we even stuck around was because it became rapidly apparent they were in an abusive living situation which we occasionally gave them advice to manage, eg helping them look up boarding options, unlike the torch-waving dipshits who did NOTHING to reach out to them or help them in any way. They're doing much better, both in their home life and in terms of not following or privately palling around with 18+ creators anymore, thanks to us, and at the expense of both our mental health and reputations. You're fucken' welcome.
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giac222 · 1 month
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It’s so funny to see people on Twitter get so worked up over TCOAAL. It’s like they go out of their way to talk about how much they hate the game. They will literally go to the accounts of people who post fan art/content of the game and act like a dick in the replies 🤦🏻‍♀️. It’s like omg get a damn life, if you hate the game so much why are you going out of your way to interact with people who like it???
Also, people getting this angry over a fictional animated horror game is so incredibly unserious to me, mind you there’s literally nothing super graphic in the game either. This is a prime example of a 1st world problem. I remember hearing about the controversy through a YouTube video and I was like wtf? Let me see what’s going on lol. Then I watched a play through on YouTube and I thought to myself “This is what people are so upset over??” I’ve never seen such fake moral outrage in my life 💀.
That’s actually how I became a fan of the game, I’ve been a fan of horror stuff for quite some time now and I love weirdo horror computer games, so I was glad to find something new! After watching the play through I bought the game and played it myself. Andrew and Ashley Graves have now wormed their way into my heart 🙄✋🏻 lmao. Seriously though, once you look deeper into their characters you see how they weren’t born evil, they’re just a product of their god awful environment and how their parents failed them. I’ve talked about this before so I’ll keep it brief, but ESPECIALLY Ashley, that girl had a terrible childhood and Andrew was the only one she could rely on, so of course she’s terrified of losing him. Not making excuses for her, but that explains why she goes to extreme measures to keep him around, because she thinks that’s the only way he’ll stay with her, she doesn’t think that someone could love her without her doing all that. Even though we know he’s equally obsessed with her and would stay no matter what, Ashley doesn’t know that yet. That’s why it’s frustrating for me to see people completely ignore that Ashley is a victim too. She was quite literally treated as disposable by everyone except for Andrew.
I have such a soft spot for both Ashley and Andrew as characters, because even though they’re flawed individuals, they both had a shitty upbringing and the world they live in is trash + it hates them. That’s why I want them to have a happy ending, after everything, they deserve some happiness for once. 🥲 🥲
Anyway, I also think these people have a hard time differentiating fiction from reality and that’s actually concerning to me. I’ve seen this type of behavior before but now it seems worse than ever, not just with TCOAAL but other forms of fictional media too. An example I can think of is when people will ship two costars in real life because they played lovers in a movie or TV show, to the point where they even talk shit about the actors real life partners. It’s so embarrassing to see. I also would not be shocked if one day people started saying we can’t make slasher films anymore because they “glorify” murder. The way some of these people act, they make it sound like if anything bad is portrayed in media that means it’s automatically being glorified or encouraged. 🤦🏻‍♀️
Now don’t get it twisted, I understand if someone simply isn’t a fan of the game, it’s not for everyone and I get that it’s not everyone’s cup of tea. I respect that. I just think it’s stupid af to go and harass fans of the game just because YOU don’t like it. Not to mention people attempting to dox Nemlei causing her to nuke all of her social media presence. I don’t blame her though because doxxing is scary. I’ve seen people say she deserved the attempted dox just because she created the game, so.. you’re angry over a fictional psychological horror game with fictional characters because it portrays bad things, but you support the attempted doxxing of a real person? Which could have been really dangerous for them… Alright. Lmao, like ok, yeah, you’re soooo morally superior to everyone else 😍. I do not understand their thought process.
Let me just share what I saw someone post about TCOAAL on Twitter tonight. This is what they said:
“its literally ashley manipulating andrew into just agreeing with the incestuous relationship that shes forcing onto him. if i remember correctly they literally have sex in the game.”
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. If someone has a take which involves Ashley solely being the problem and that Andrew is just a softy who can do no wrong and was forced to do everything he’s done, I discard their opinion because they don’t know what they’re talking about and are just seeing what they want to see 🤷🏻‍♀️. Mind you, Andrew is the one who has sexual feelings for Ashley, not the other way around. We know Ashley loves Andrew, but sex isn’t a big deal to her and if they never slept together she wouldn’t care. The way they haven’t even had sex in the game either, people love to say that lmao, it’s a vision and we don’t even see anything explicit, we just know what happened.
Not only do we have haters of the game blame Ashley for everything, but other fans of the game (Reddit community) do the exact same thing. It’s rough out here y’all. 😭 I need them to stop speaking about her immediately. 😂
Another reason I don’t take them seriously is because I can guarantee you they didn’t keep the same energy for Game of Thrones, House of the Dragons, or Flowers in the Attic. I’m sure there’s more, but those are the main examples I can think of. That’s another reason why I didn’t understand the controversy, they act like it’s the first time incest has ever been portrayed in fictional media??? Regardless though, I just don’t understand why people would get this worked up over something that’s not real. Andrew and Ashley are literally pixels on a screen, they aren’t real people. 💀
But the worst of all, I’ve seen people call TCOAAL pedophilic???????? Words used to mean things! I have no idea how someone could even get that from the game, Ashley is 20 and Andrew is 22, so? People just say anything.
Adding this in here even though this has been posted already, but now people are saying that Ashley groomed Andrew on Tik Tok….. I am tiredddd. 💀 These people will jump through literal hoops to try and prove that Andrew isn’t as bad as Ashley I cannot.
At the end of the day, anyone with common sense can differentiate fiction from reality and knows that what the game portrays is wrong in real life. I mean it’s a psychological horror game. Psychological horror focuses on mental, emotional, and psychological states to disturb and unsettle the viewers. I just feel like the hate for the game is so forced at this point.
Me when I see yet another god awful take about TCOAAL:
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Lmao
I decided to make a post on this because I’ve had these opinions for a while and I wanted to talk about it.
Thanks for reading. ❤️
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lucy-verse · 7 months
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why do you ship lawtsuda?? no offence, but L literally bullies Matsuda in canon. Plus he would never date him because he thinks he's stupid.
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Alright, anon. I’ll bite.
“L literally bullies Matsuda in canon.”
I’m really getting tired of this claim that L “bullies” Matsuda. Bullying is when someone repeatedly seeks out to harass, harm, and/or coerce an individual, which is not what L does with Matsuda. He is dismissive of him and occasionally calls him an idiot. That’s it. Is it asshole behaviour? Yes. Bullying? No.
And as much as I love Matsuda, he does behave like an idiot on numerous occasions. He almost got himself killed and blew L’s cover by trying to play the hero with the Yotsuba Group; and while it could be argued that he was pushed to do it because of everyone underestimating him, let’s not forget that he’s a grown ass adult and could have gone about proving himself in a far less hazardous manner. L calling him an idiot in response was a slap on the wrist - he had every right to kick Matsuda off the investigation altogether.
Literally everyone in the Task Force, Light included, gets exasperated with Matsuda at some point, and yet no one calls them bullies. Let’s be real here - while we as the audience find him endearing, he would likely be an incredibly difficult person to work with in real life, especially during a police investigation. Once again, I’m not saying that Matsuda isn’t treated unfairly at times; I’m saying that L is far from the only character who puts him down and if you consider his attitude bullying, then most of the Task Force is guilty of that too.
“L would never date him because he thinks he’s stupid.”
L would never date Light either, because he’s an abusive, manipulative mass murderer who wants him dead. Yet, Lawlight remains Death Note’s most popular ship. Likely because the whole purpose of fanfiction is having the freedom to disregard canon.
You’re right, L would not date Matsuda in canon. 99% of Death Note ships would never happen in canon. But here’s the thing - I don’t care. I really couldn’t give two shits about canon. If I want to write a fic where L and Matsuda are happily married, living in a cottage with ten children, then I can and I will. Because that’s what fanfiction is for. Making your own stories about existing characters because it’s fun. You’re well within your right to dislike certain ships, but shitting on those who do enjoy it is both childish and pathetic.
As for why I ship Lawtsuda, I have four words for you: because I want to.
I don’t have to justify my ship to you. Both characters are consenting, fictional adults. Me shipping them has absolutely no impact on your life, and if you don’t want to see it on your dash, either scroll past, filter it out, or block me. I used to be bombarded with comments like this back when I was a teenager, and it’s one of the many reasons I deleted all my Death Note fics and distanced myself from the fandom. Thankfully, I’ve grown a spine since then and don’t have time for fans who think they have the right to gatekeep other people’s ships because it makes them feel superior.
TL;DR I ship Lawtsuda because I want to. Get over it.
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autistichalsin · 2 months
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I'm really fucking tired.
All I wanted was a space to obsess over a fictional man, who brought me a ton of healing, in peace.
This group has made it their mission to chase not only me away, but anyone associated with me. They called me a rape fetishizer for writing CNC fic. They called me a pedophile for making an omega Halsin headcanon. They called me a self-hating lesbian/lesbophobic for saying it's TERFy to demonize queer male sexuality. They mocked my abuse by my mom, and when called on it, laughed that I deserved it for saying how Mint's actions remind me of her sometimes. They accused me of retraumatizing myself because of the fic I wrote, when THEY were the ones who retraumatized me by causing me to have a flashback to my mom abusing me. They accused me of absolutely vile things, and today they questioned if I even was "really" abused because of the fic I wrote. They repeatedly mocked my special interests and then got offended and played victim when I said this was ableist. They've sent suicide bait to me and my friends.
They've harassed others: they harassed a bi SH fan for asking them to stop saying it was icky to ship her with men until she left the fandom, they harassed someone who made a mod to turn Scratch into Astarion so they could see the animations (even calling this person as bad as Cazador), they harassed someone for making a headcanon about Astarion dancing with Tav, they harassed a lesbian who herself headcanons Karlach as a lesbian and doesn't like Karlach/Dammon but explained why others do, they harassed my friend Mish for saying she was okay with me writing CNC, they sent suicide bait to another friend of mine and said she deserved to get raped so she would sympathize with Mint, causing her to have a mental breakdown and have to go to the hospital for 24 hours, and every time someone pushes back against them, this group weaponizes their identity by saying that person is bigoted against their identity- while ignoring (at best) the marginalized identities that person has, or at worst, furthering oppression against them (I.E. their repeated ableist comments, including one of them snarling at another user about "enjoying your grippy sock vacation")
And despite all these vile things this group of people have done, people are still believing them and sending more harassment to myself and my friends in their defense.
I'm fucking tired.
I'm tired of defending myself. I'm tired of losing people I considered friends to their lies. I'm tired of having my inbox invaded by these vile people.
They are wearing at my mental health and this already made me relapse on one of my addictive behaviors and I am fighting really hard not to do the other one. I'm tired. I loved this fandom and I loved contributing my ideas. I get so many messages from people saying I made them feel seen or made them connect to Halsin's character, and getting a message from a survivor that my posts gave them the words they were lacking for what happened to them and they were able to work through it in counseling was honestly one of the best things to ever happen to me. I really don't want to lose that. Ever. But I can't keep doing this.
I'm not bigoted to my own identity. I don't hurt people. I don't fetishize rape. I'm tired of being a broken record and not being believed because that group is so good at fragilizing themselves. I can't do it anymore.
I just wanted to share my thoughts about a fictional bear man because it made me happy and so many parts of him gave me courage. I wanted to give up cynicism like he did. I wanted to find his strength to take care of people.
But I am honestly very close to regretting ever joining this fandom. I have gained so much from it, it helped my mental health immensely, but this shit has put me in an even WORSE place mentally than i was before I joined.
I don't know what to do. I'm just tired of the way, no matter how much I epitomize "living your best life" I get treatment from these people that I honestly wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.
I have a lot of painful feelings right now and I don't know what to do anymore. It just hurts and I think everyone would be better off if I'd never made this blog to begin with.
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lnkedmyheart · 7 months
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I like f/m skk ships when done right. Sure transfem is awesome and all, but I as a mostly feminine nb lesbian would like to point out that skk is a FANON gay ship, if your entire ship falls apart if one of them is gender swapped maybe that's a you problem. To me gender doesnt exactly matter outside of exploring themes that are influenced by the visible appearance of a character or silly what if scenarios. It really says something if your argument against people making skk f/m is "it takes away their whole dynamic" or "why are you making them het". Did you know 2 bi people of opposite genders can be in a relationship and still be bi? Do you know gender fluidity exists and some people do use their assigned at birth pronouns interchangeably with neutral ones? Did you know people can and will fetishize trans characters just as much as "het" ones?
A massive chunk of the fem Dazai/ bottom Dazai content I have seen turns him into this whimpering pathetic mockery of subservient poundee. But people want to tell me people only ever make fem chuuya aus cause they wanna fetishize the short long haired hyper masculine dude? Ya'll want me to be cool with people attacking others for having aus where one of them acts or likes to dress feminine? Lord forbid a gay guy like to dress feminine, he is clearly setting the entire LGBT movement back by 70 years right?
Over a fictional non canon ship? A measly 12 m/f out of 20k gay fanfics about a fictional non canon ship will not suddenly come to my door and tell me I no longer have rights as a gay woman. Someone's m/f headcanon is not gonna personally destroy rep for society, nobody is violating your right to exist and consume queer media simply by reading/writing a cis version of a gay ship. A ship btw that isn't even real rep outside of our reading as fans and what subtext there is.
And where is this anger and holier than though behaviour when the same is done to Sigma or Nikolai? They are also long haired men being drawn as women with fetished bodies and in lingerie. Nobody seems to be throwing hissy fits about fem Nikolai's primary personality in fanart being having gigantic knockers and wearing revealing camel toe hugging skintight outfits and everyone and their mother will defend every single sketch of Sigma being drawn as a woman and then turn around to harass, hound and doxx people for daring to do the same to Chuuya.
Gender and sexuality is fluid as fuck but people who come at queer artists and writers for making seemingly cis art or writing m/f aus of ships are imo major red flags.
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myfandomrealitea · 4 months
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"Understanding that fiction is not reality. It does not create victims."
I don't know if I can agree with that, there definitely have been instances where shipping has created victims, real people shipping to be exact.
Both Harry Styles & Lois Tomlinson from One Direction and Camila Cabello & Lauren Jauregui from Fifth Harmony have publicly spoken about how fans shipping them put a major strain on their respective friendships and how they would like fans to stop.
Ofc most ships will never reach the amount of popularity needed to actually become a real life problem, but it is possible.
Fiction does not create real victims in that if I write about someone being raped, nobody is actually getting raped. Nobody is a victim of what happens within my fanfiction.
Just like the very legal defence of how thoughts are not actual crimes. I can think about overthrowing the government. But it only becomes an actual crime if I prepare to, or try to.
Likewise, I can write about all the murder I want. It doesn't make me an actual murderer.
Fiction does not create real victims.
Fanfiction itself is not to blame for how actual, real people, interact with and expose content to other real people. It wasn't people writing fanfiction who made those celebrities uncomfortable. It was the actions of the people who bombarded them with inappropriate content and interactions.
Mark Fischbach and Sean McLoughlin are a prime example of this. They knew people shipped them. They knew people wrote explicit fanfiction and drew explicit fanart. They didn't care. It was a separate part of their fandom they did not involve themselves in.
It only began to cause, as you say, real life problems when certain people began to harass their real life partners over it, began to tag them in or send them explicit content, and began to try forcing Mark and Sean to actually fanservice them.
Mark and Sean didn't ask people to stop shipping them. They asked people to stop forcing the ship on them in real life. They asked people not to harass their partners, not to send them explicit pornography, and not to force them to change how they behave in order to make it easier to construe it as romantic or sexual.
What people do with content will always be more inherently harmful than the actual content itself.
That is, again, why respect is such a huge part of proshipping and the RPF community. Why there are certain rules we follow and processes we follow in order to not be those people. The heavy emphasis on why things like tagging are so important is not only for our sakes, but for the sakes of the people we are using creatively. The only way they can avoid certain content is if we religiously give them the tools and meet the criteria they need us to in order to be able to.
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syxadel · 9 months
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do you often get hate for dream-mare? I don't mean to be personal I'm sorry. it's just it's a bit of a controversial take. I'm curious if it bothers you or how you react to such hate. it's a bit hard to dance around eggshells to not like... be a douche about your hard work and passion.
I still want to engage with your art even if it makes me slightly uncomfortable it's not something to bring up a fuss about. i get it. not the shipping but the appeal, the characterisation and all that.
in fact I actually admire your boldness to not give in and still draw whatever interests you. that's some awesome confidence. even if it means going against most people. in the end they're FICTIONAL characters. this doesn't imply anything about your personality so I'm rather curious what more goes on inside your brain?
creativity is not a crime and you are just a different color of the spectrum of different people out there that I'm trying to genuinely understand and connect with. I'm curious!
-your secret non-aggressive hater and respectful admirerer
I'm a rather inquisitive person as well, so I think I understand where you come from when sending this ask... I see you had a lot on your mind when writing this, so I'll just reply to the specific line of inquiry you had. I appreciate the large effort to come off as non-threatening/offensive!
(As a side note, I'm answering this both for you and other folks who may be curious and not as bold to ask. I've explained thoroughly, so it's under a read more.)
Do you often get hate for Dreammare? Not as often as I would on twitter. There's not a real quantitative frequency-I can tell you I got a comment just two days ago. It's deleted now. It's less about how often it happens and how severe it is.
Does it bother you/How do you react? At first, it made me feel awful. I just didn't understand it, and I felt helpless about how my moral character was suddenly under question by groups of people for something related to fiction. I cared too much about thousands of people I don't know, and likely never will. By now, I find most of the messages funny or saddening-mainly because I feel sympathetic for people who, I envision, lack a certain peace and/or self-awareness. My gut reaction is to just delete the message and move on. Why would I want to have a constructive discussion with someone who thinks I would be better off dead? Best just get rid of it, so no one else has to have their day ruined. Then I go complain about it with my friends, try to laugh it off, and move on. It's part of the reason why I raise my brow at 'not-proshippers' who appreciate my art in my inbox. I'm happy they like what I draw. But if you're not 'proship', do you know what you are? "Anti" and "proship"; these labels are about our stances on censorship and harassment. If you're against the harassment of folks over fiction/media depicting rape, incest, or other such themes/ against the total censorship of those controversial subjects, you're a proshipper. These real world subjects will exist regardless of our opinions in fiction. The way the human mind copes with horrible or repulsive matter is by studying and engaging with it, regardless of previous trauma. Fiction is a safe medium to interact with topics of great distress.
What more goes on inside your brain? I'm a pretty average joe. If there's apple juice on a restaurant menu, I'll always order it. I just tried olives on pizza like two months ago. I prefer hot tea over iced tea. I like a spoonful of honey with my green tea, and I like mayonnaise mixed with ketchup. I really dislike buffalo sauce. My bagel order is an everything bagel with garlic herb cream cheese. I love cooking with friends and gorging myself on soft-boiled eggs (boiled for 10 minutes, sat for 3 minutes, peeled under cold water) with soy sauce. I can't stand the physical sensation of biting into apples. I hate getting my socks wet, and I have a drawer for knit scarves. The things I think about are things you would think about. Do you think I am an animal to study? I am curious, too-not angry or frustrated. Inquisitive. Did I answer your questions, stranger?
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Hi, this may be a dumb question but;
are you proship?
I'm asking because there are some really hypocritical yandere blogs that will claim to be anti-harassment but in actuality, they're antis spreading hate.
Not a dumb question at all.
I guess I would be considered "proship" as I don't believe in censoring oneself when it comes to exploring taboo and dark subjects in fiction. I mean, that's how you get amazing villains that you love to hate. A protag is only as good as their villain, after all.
What you like in fantasy vs what you condone IRL is and should be two different things. What is condoned in fiction as a form of escapism does not mean it is condoned IRL. It's no different than delving into criminal files or liking horror/thriller movies if I'm honest. You maintain the divide between fantasy and reality regardless unless there are already underlying issues and thoughts that blur the two, and to that, I think it's best to stay away from fantasy. Rarely is fantasy the catalyst of criminal intent past harassment of said fantasy. In fact, harassment of fantasy lovers is more common than anything they claim taboo/dark fantasy does to those IRL.
For example: I adore Yandere situations and serial killers in fiction. I would never allow it IRL and it does help me identify red flags in those around me so I can keep myself and those close to me safe. I snuff that crap out in a heartbeat.
If I don't like something in fiction, I tend to block it and not bother the person on the other end because... why would I? I treat others the way I like to be treated. I'm not going to berate or start drama because that's a waste of my time and yours.
I am wholeheartedly anti-harassment. I am a pacifist until I can't be and I go by the mantra "Do no harm, take no shit." In most situations, I will never be the attacker. You have to do something REALLY fucked up for me to come after you.
I have no sympathy for antis, honestly, especially those who have the mindset of "think about the children/SA victims" because I do. Some of those who are proship ARE children and SA victims using it to cope. Those who try to push that narrative to excuse their behavior are toxic people who want control more than actually caring about anyone other than themselves. It's used a lot in history to try to play the victim when called out on bullshit and to rouse anger in those who don't know any better. The Satanic Panic is one of these times. Actually, a lot of history's atrocities are supposedly "in defense of certain people". I find the reasonings behind antis to be hypocritical since they're attacking blindly and have no idea who they are addressing or what their background is.
I feel those who attack others over fiction don't know the difference between reality and fantasy and try to blur it because defending a handful of pixels will never outweigh the damage done to a real person. You can't take someone to court over fictional ships but you can be arrested for harassment and raked over the coals for that behavior which I am all for.
Ship what you want, explore what you want, and you will never have a problem with me, but the moment that leaks into our world and real people start being harmed, I will bite back. I'm a crime buff. I put real people over fiction every damn time. There will never be a valid excuse to harass anyone over fiction in my eyes, regardless of whether I like the material or not. There is a block feature for a reason. Someone isn't going to dislike their escapism when another harasses them, they're going to hate the person who hurts them.
Hell, most proshippers I know are ten times nicer than some antis I've met, mainly because we're on the same page that fictional evil and toxicity are not to be condoned in real life. Antis just feel like kids who refuse to learn that you can't harm people just because you disagree.
I mean, we already have enough strife and upsetment IRL, why do you want to drag that into escapism and shatter it?
Getting hate is funny though. I've laughed at what I've gotten because it's like, do you have anything better to do? Go play a video game, read a book, or go write or draw something. Go be creative. Go do something other than sow more crap in this world. My advice is to utilize the block feature.
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xx-slug-xx · 3 months
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I’m really not sure who to send this to, because there’s no “one blog” to talk to about this. However, with you being a proship discourse blog, I figured it would be.. alright? The best choice? Not sure. I’m sorry if this isn’t the right place to say this, or you don’t want me to send you this.
(I’d appreciate it if this was posted so more people can see it)
I would make this my own separate post, but I’d rather not deal with people telling me horrible things in my inbox.
So.. I was an anti. Keyword was. I like to think of myself as a generally open-minded person, and I’m okay with most things that the internet deems weird or unacceptable. The ONLY REASON I was an anti is because of how antis twisted the meaning of the word “proship”.
I want no association with the group of people that actively send horrible, horrible things to people, all because they enjoy their fandom. Because I want no association with the people that think it’s okay to doxx and harass people over fandom.
I thought that proshippers were people that supported and were okay with “problematic” ships such as incest. I thought that proshippers were people that were okay with those ships being carried over to real life, or people that might be influenced by those types of ships to do those things in real life. I thought that proshippers were people that wouldn’t mind seeing similar content of real people.
While yes, some proshippers do like to consume content of “problematic” ships, I now realize that that isn’t the real term. It was just antis making the term “proship” associated with the word “pedophile” or “pro- (real) incest”.
Just one half-hour long scroll on the proship tag has made me change my opinion. Just THIRTY MINUTES.
I am now a proshipper myself, and don’t mind being called such. Would I consume content that I’m uncomfortable with? No. But do I respect those that do and leave them be? Yes. Do I support the ORIGINAL, UNCHANGED intentions behind the word proship? Absolutely.
If you are an anti yourself reading this- first of all, why are you in these tags in the first place?- second of all. The original meaning of “proship” is the golden rule. Taught in elementary school. Treat people how you want to be treated. And if you don’t like something, don’t interact with it. It is ultimately your fault if you are actively seeking out content that makes you uncomfortable.
Yeah I used to be an anti for the same exact reasons, Anon. You aren’t alone in your experience! :) I don’t like “problematic” fiction, and I stay away from that. But it’s not really my business if others DO like that type of thing, for ANY reason. Fiction doesn’t hurt people, groomers and other abusers are the ones who hurt people. Sure, someone can see things through a fictional medium that effects them negatively, but ultimately, it’s the choice to act on thoughts that makes the difference.
I keep this blog private from my other corners of the internet, for good reason. Antis can be dangerous and I don’t want to deal with that. And I don’t blame you for feeling the same way! You still should have a voice though, and feel like you are making some sort of difference :)))
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takaraphoenix · 2 years
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I came across a post that, paraphrased, went roughly "Every time you see someone speak up against censorship, it turns out to be about incest or something problematic".
And. Yes, that's kind of the point, because nobody is trying to censor the 100% wholesome, morally upstanding vanilla ships?? That's not where the conversation about censorship starts, and for a reason?
The way the point just COMPLETELY goes over these people's heads.
Censorship starts out with the "problematic" content. That's how they get their foot in the door with EXACTLY these people like that OP. Show them that no, no, we are just concerned, just want to take out this Clearly Morally Wrong stuff. That's fine, right?
No. Even if you yourself find the content horrible and would never want to touch it, it has a right to EXIST because the moment you open the door to censorship, you lose control of what gets censored and why.
And the really pathetic part about this is that most antis operate from a place of utter hypocracy, to begin with.
In every single fandom I've been in where there were antis, judging and harassing others for the "problematic" content they consumed, the antis themselves were hiding behind ships just as bad, if not WORSE.
It doesn't even take much efford to list things about antis' supposedly morally superior ships that makes them problematic. Heck. Most ships have something about them that constitutes unhealthy or toxic if it were a real relationship. Throw a ship at me, I'll tell you why it's problematic.
But these people's false assumption is that their personal interpretation of morals is the one that will be applied in this purge and only the content they dislike would then be censored while the thing they love would NEVER fall victim to censorship, so a bit of censorship would be fine, to clean up fandom.
That's not how it's going to be. Your own problematic fave gets censored too, because no blind eye and bending over backward to explain why this particular thing is somehow ~different~, despite being the exact same.
And once we're through with the biggest offenders? The search for problematic content will be widened, more things will be targeted and deemed problematic, based on a definition of the term even they may no longer agree on - but it's too late, because the door's wide open now.
It's less about protecting one specific fetish to get your rocks off to, it's about acknowledging that these are the conversation starters used to convince others to open the door and let censorship in and we need to stop it before it gets in, even if that means defending other people's right to create fictional things that we, personally and individually, may dislike or even find disgusting.
Because once you start limiting something like art, free speech and fiction in general, how those lines will be drawn becomes blurry and that power WILL be abused by the wrong people.
So let's not give them that power.
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ryuichirou · 21 days
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Replies
One serious one and a bunch of kind of silly shorter ones.
Anonymous asked:
Hi!  I hope you don't mind me asking this but I had a question about fandom stuff since this is my first time in an active fandom.  Almost every time there's fanworks, mostly fanart, of the TWST first and seconds years in sexual positions/sexualized, there's a lot of people dramatically freaking out because they're "minors/16/17!" and "you're not allowed to do that/it's illegal so stop that!" (Sometimes in all caps too). Are these people common in fandoms with younger casts?  Sorry for sounding anxious, I just keep running into people like this and anti-shippers and they really bring my mood down...
Hi Anon! Sure, I don’t mind talking about fandom stuff.
I think it’s not a matter of titles having younger casts, but a matter of fandoms having younger people in them. There are some shows that aren’t very popular/have fandoms that mostly consist of people that are older than 25, and you’d see less of this type of attitude there. Like, drastically less. I don’t think there are a lot of people complaining about characters of Prince of Tennis being 14-16 year olds, for example.
But if a show is popular with teens or younger people in general, chances are, there are going to be quite a number of antis. For example, SK8 got a big chunk of its popularity on tiktok and boy is it obvious lol
I want to stress that this doesn’t mean that all the anti-shippers are young: this absolutely isn’t the case, and unfortunately a lot of pretty much adult people participate in harassment, write call-outs and do this type of crap in general. Also obviously, not every teenager is an anti (not that it matters to us of course, all of our blogs are 18+ so the majority of teens shouldn’t even be here).
So yeah. I think of it as a subculture, albeit a very aggressive one. There are people who are legitimately uncomfortable with this type of content, but I’m pretty sure the majority of antis just love using their non-existent high moral ground to harass and try to control people and their art. They either don’t understand the magnitude of their actions or don’t care if they hurt real people over fictional minors.
I am very sorry that you stumble upon this type of people and that they make you feel bad. I always say this, but: block everyone. Even if a person is just mildly uncomfortable to you or you don’t like their vibes, block them just so you see less of this type of stuff.
Your art and any art that you enjoy doesn’t hurt anyone as long as people are being responsible about posting and interacting with it. So absolutely don’t feel like you’re doing something wrong just because someone doesn’t understand how fiction works. I hope this type of crap disappears as soon as fandoms become less popular, like they’ve been before things got out of hand. Some people should’ve never been here in the first place – sorry for gate-keeping, but they don’t get it and don’t care about getting it or at least being respectful to others, so why should we be better people.
Anonymous asked:
Idia: Yay, crotch view!
(related to our Lilidia drawing from yesterday hehe)
Lucky boy! Got to see Heavens right before his demise…
Anonymous asked:
What do you think about Neige x Epel?
Replied! Also talked about them a bit in this reply + some other replies that I can’t find…
Anonymous asked:
thoughts on liliaxepel?
Definitely replied before, but I can’t find that reply, so: they’re cute, gotta love two short feisty cuties together; we really liked that one vignette in which Lilia shows Epel that you don’t have to be tall or big to be scary and strong. It teases a very interesting potential dynamic both in a shippy and in a platonic sense: Epel has a lot to learn from Lilia, and it would be fun if they interacted more often.
It isn’t a ship that we’re massively passionate about, but they’re fun together! Could be very hot.
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dragynkeep · 9 months
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Miles fucking Luna just admitted on Cameo bumbleby was made canon soley because of its popularity with shippers and "would have toned down the Black Sun moments" had they known beforehand! Ais, please bully this beta looking crackhead on Twitter for me because I don't have an account and I refuse to get one
i watched the video & 1. why does he look like that & 2. why is he so goddamn close to the camera. back tf up on this cameo you've owed someone for ages, maybe try & be a little professional & not look like you're recording this on your smoke break.
it's also interesting he doesn't mention why he had to turn cameo off for a bit when some of the last cameos he had included misusing the word genocide over a fictional character & then pimping out his own self insert as "bisexual" & having to walk it back when people, desperate for queer mlm representation in this homophobic ass show, were wondering if it was actually going to be canon when. nah. he just said it for money :))
"you asked if there was any behind the scenes info for bumblby, which is hard cause i don't think there's much to talk about" for a ship you've apparently had in the works for 10 years? since the beginning? kept so under wraps? whatever, miles.
ohhh my god miles bringing up that blake is the bisexual queen & "everyone wants to date her" as if he wasn't disgustingly biphobic & joked about getting off to women kissing in front of him as well as asking if bisexual women were "truly bisexual" or just "sipped from the fur cup" with his best friend who sexually harasses women.
it's also weird that this essentially confirms the reason she has the "blake harem" is because she's bisexual, as well as being "cute & pretty." which. fall into a hole, luna, you ugly fuck.
also positing sun & blake on their faunus relationship as the much smaller one while being deluded there was anything to yang & blake over the "much longer relationship" besides a shit ton of shared trauma & no in depth discussions, no romantic connection, nothing until the last two volumes where they were like "welp, better get this yuri train on the road" & invented moments for them out of nowhere that were out of character & did a disservice to their actual characters.
"they're finally in a place where they can admit their feelings to one another" but why? nothing has changed between them, they've actively ignored or pushed aside the so called "baggage & drama" that miles described them going through & in this volume they were essentially made by the environment to confess their feelings, not through any genuine connection. there was no reason that this confession couldn't have happened in all the life threatening situations last volume & i would've been spared yang fetishizing blake's racial features.
overall: this cameo just confirms the worst of what we knew about crwby in regards to sun / blake / yang. whatever was popular was going to be canon, they didn't care or understand their characters motivations & there is so much biphobia in their treatment of their main bisexual character in regards to both her love life & the confirmation of it only coming in a wlw relationship, downplaying all sides of her attraction.
they could've had blake be confirmed bisexual from day one. they could've done more with blake & yang in the early volumes instead of borderline pimping her out to the cast to have a harem because of said bisexuality & her "cuteness" when in what way does that fit the reserved & cautious blake we know?
this is five minutes of my time i'll never get back & i wish miles a very happy get [redacted] because your shitty voice sounds like razor blades in my ear, you unwashed biphobic fuck.
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This group of indie developers 'Team Switched', had recently let someone go for being a 'Proshipper', which is essentially being anti harassment and anti-censorship over fiction and fictional ships. They publicly announced this being the reason for this person's removal. Which caused some outrage because they're siding with people who are pro-harassment over fiction and pro-censorship with this statement.
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However, some new things had come to light involving this situation. Within the replies to this entire post, people were explaining the real reason for why this person had been let go. The reason, is extremely telling, which has nothing to do with the 'proship' label, bad people are bad people regardless of their views on censorship and and being anti-harassment. The real reason was because this individual was letting children in to a nsfw discord. Something that they didn't want to address. Why the silence? People being silent over matters such as these is the same as condoning those actions. So, Team Switched, who else on your team is a predator that you're protecting under the 'Anti' label? Because you only outed the one that didn't follow your beliefs on being pro-harassement and pro-censorship. Makes the post you're making here sound incredibly hypocritical...doesn't it?
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Time and again, predatory antis will do everything they can to deflect the situation away from themselves. It is within my opinion that there are others harming children behind the scenes, allegedly. Why else would you make this in to a shipping discourse? What are you hiding? Who are you protecting? This is incredibly concerning behaviour for a company that involves themselves with children, allows them to participate in the community and will potentially be playing their games.
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