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linkspooky · 1 year

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JUJUTSU KAISEN, CHAPTER 216 THOUGHTS.

Chapter 216: Bath reveals to us what exactly the “Bath” is and how Sukuna plans to use it to drag Megumi down further into the murky depths of his own conscious. This scene is soaked in Jungian symbolism, as Megumi’s control over the body (his consciousness) is superseded by Sukuna who take complete control of him. Sukuna and Megumi fighting over control of their own body greatly resembles Jung’s idea of the “Persona” and the “Shadow”, and is highly symbolic of Megumi’s personal arc as well. Which I will now detail under the cut.

1. Still Waters Run Deep

For a brief overview of Jung’s ideas, both Jung and Freud theorized the psyche (consciousness) was made up of three components. Freud’s iceberg theory of the unconscious likened the mind to an iceberg, as the most important part of the mind is what you cannot see.

Similiar to Freud, Jung divided the mind into three areas. While Freud named these unconscious, preconscious, and conscious, Jung divided the ego, the personal unconscious, and the collective unconscious.

Briefly, the Persona is the topmost layer of the psyche presented to the world

“A kind of mask, designed on one hand to make a definite impression on others, and on the other to conceal the true nature of the individual. (Jung, Two essays on Analytical Psychology).

WHhhle the persona is what one thinks as well as others think one is” the shadow is

“that hidden, repressed, for the most part inferior and guilt-kladen personality whos’s untimate ramification reach back into the realm of our animal acestors. (Collected works of C.G. Jung Volume 9)

Finally, the Collective unconscious the deepest layer of the mind sometimes referred to as the “objective psyche”, refers to the idea that a segment of the deepest unconscious mind is genetically inherited and common to all human beings. The collective unconscious is made up of knowledge, instincts, and imagery that every human is born with.

He posited because of this collective unconscious, there are recurring motifs and symbols he termed “archetypes” which appear in mythologies from different cultures around the world. This was his reason why two cultures who never had any contact with each other, could have myths with similiar stories. One of his greatest examples of this was the “flood myth” which recurs in many cultures, such as the biblical account and the flood in the epic of Gilgamesh.

This is where I tie it back to Jujutsu Kaisen and Sukuna’s “bath” because for Jung, water was the most common symbol of the unconscious.

“THe lake in the valley is the unconscious, which lies, as it were, underneath the consciousness, so that it is often referred to as the “subconscious”, usually with the perjorative connotation of an inferior consciousness.

Water is the “valley spirit”, the water dragon of Tao, whose nature resebles wayer - a yang embraced in the yin.

Psychologically, therefore, water means spirit that has become unconscious.

So the dream of the theologian is quite right in telling him that down by the water, he could experience the working of the living spirit like amiracle of healing in the pool of Bethesda.

The descent into the depths always seems to preced the ascent (Collected works of C.G. Jung Volume 9)

Above Jung references collective mythologies from different cultures to make his point, Taoism, the concept of Yin and Yang, and the pool of Bethesda from the New Testament where Jesus miraculously healed a paralyzed man. Rather than describe it as an inferior consciousness he likens it to the other half of the mind, the yang to the higher mind’s yin.

Obviously, Jujutsu Kaisen is making use of water symbolism as well, Sukuna is soaking Megumi to push him down deeper in his mind. This chapter is literally showing us Megumi’s “Descent into the depths.”

Shadows, and Water have always been a recurring symbolism for Megumi, though. Beginning with early on, Sukuna suggests to Megumi the real strength of the “Ten Shadows” technique is not the Shikigami he summons but the fact he uses his shadows as a medium.

It becomes apparent early on Megumi has what is easily the greatest technique in his clan, and yet he doesn’t utilize it properly nor does he realize its full potential. Megumi’s strength comes from his shadows, but Megumi does not even seem to be aware of his full potential.

When Gojo suggests that a Zen’in Clan Ten Shadows user defeated a Six-Eyes user in the past Megumi denies the fact he could ever be stronger than Gojo. When Megumi remembers Gojo’s lecture on how quick he is to give up and sacrifice himself in a fight, rather than “swinging for the fences” look what his newly formed domain expansion resembles.

His domain expansion “brings forth the deepest shadows” and when he uses it, it looks and moves like water. Megumi’s greatest power comes in utilizing his shadow, and yet paradoxically he is Megumi is a highly repressed individual character who always ignores and looks away from his shadow.

"Still waters run deep” is a phrase often used to describe the Jungian Shadow. Megumi is so much more than what he appears on the surface, you step forward in the water expecting it to be shallow and then you sink down into an ocean. This is because Megumi’s most common tactic is to suppress and hide his true feelings about things in any kind of stressful situation rather than dealing with him.

However, his eyes that were as deep as the night that peeped out from the bottom of a deep ditch became even more lifeless.

Fushiguro tried once more to switch off his self-awareness.

Numbness was the safety feature of life. If he did not think of a way to protect his spirit, it would not be strange if a curse was born.

In a wy, what Sukuna is doing right now is an extreme form of what Megumi always does. Megumi feels very helpless and out of control of his own life. His parents abandoned him. He didn’t want to be a sorcerer but was forced into it by a situation out of his control. When he did decide to become a sorcerer to stop Tsumiki from going to the Zen’in, he couldn’t protect her and Tsumiki was attacked by a curse despite Megumi being someone whose job it is to exorcise curses he was completely useless in that scenario.

Part of the reason Megumi was tricked so easily into losing possession of his body to Sukuna, is because Megumi has so little regard for his health and well-being. Yuji warned him multiple times that Sukuna was planning something for him, but Megumi didn’t even think about the danger to himself if he kept Yuji close. Megumi is someone who actively refuses to take control of his own life, and therefore, Sukuna takes it away from him.

However, Sukuna’s attempts to take control of Megumi’s body may not have completely succeeded. Just like there is no yin without the yang, there is no persona without the shadow. A person’s mind isn’t one or the other, it’s both.

The shadow isn’t the “true self” it’s merely the hidden self. Persona matters in identity too. As Kurt Vonnegut said, “We are what we pretend to be.”

Sukuna immediately decides to target and kill Tsumiki’s body, because the bath did not work in completely submerging Megumi’s soul.

As stated above, the descent into the depths always seems to precede the ascent.

It’s revealed the same chapter that Megumi’s body was taken over, that Megumi always had the potential to be a vessel just like Yuji did, which is why Sukuna needed to break his mind first before he tried to take control because there was always a possibility that Megumi could take his body back and seal Sukuna within rather than giving up control.

The descent into the depths always seems to precede the ascent, in a way this is what Megumi needs to do. It’s always what he’s needed. He needs to plumb the depths of his shadows, and then crawl out of those murky depths and back to the surface. Megumi needs to self-actualize and self-reflect as a human being rather than trying to keep everything in the dark because that’s the first step to taking control of his own life. Fighting back for control of his own body, is just Megumi facing his inner demons because he is literally fighting his inner demons in the form of Sukuna.

To further tie in this idea let me quote @theanimepsychologist

Also I know I sound like a broken record but Jacob’s Ladder is a HELL of a rabbit hole. It’s not just Urizen, it’s the implication of Jacob going through hell and then going up the ladder. Makes me wonder if Megumi will follow that since some of the current symbolism is totally about going into the unconscious where he’s having to face evil (Sukuna, the bath).

Remember, Jacob’s ladder is the technique that Hana / Angel tried to use to exorcise / reach Megumi and it seemed to be working until Sukuna tricked her.

If Sukuna manages to kill Yorozu / Tsumiki and that is a big if, I believe even Megumi can come back from that. Because Megumi has always tried living for the sake of others, doing things for Tsumiki or Yuji’s sake, when what he really needs to do is live for his own sake.

2. The Collective Unconscious

So, the Jungian symbolism associated with Sukuna baffled me for a long time. Originally, I thought Sukuna was supposed to be Yuji’s shadow because he lives deep within Yuji, he resembles him almost exactly (even Sukuna’s true four-armed form resembles him) he can take control of his body when Yuji’s willpower and consciousness wanes. However, when he switched bodies with Megumi in a way none of us saw coming that seemed to disprove that idea.

Then, was he supposed to be Megumi’s shadow all along? In the same way, Sukuna was only ever interested in Megumi and was always planning to take Megumi’s body from him, does that mean he was meant to reflect Megumi’s suppressed side?

However, after thinking about it I’ve come to a different conclusion. He’s not the shadow for Yuji, or Megumi, he’s both of their shadows. Rather, he represents the third part of the psyche buried deep within us, the collective unconscious.

The collective unconscious is shared by all of humanity, populated by instincts we are born with and contains the symbols that occur throughout all of mythology. Similarly, Sukuna himself is not only “Ryomen Sukuna” someone who is regarded as a myth in the story itself but turns out to be a real person. He’s also “the disgraced one” the enemy of “angel” a character who is clearly drawing from Jewish and Christian mythology. (The Jacob’s Ladder is from the Torah, whereas jewish and christian mythologies have wildly different ideas of satan, and “disgraced one” seems to have a resemblance to Milton’s depiction of Lucifer).

Which means Sukuna as a character draws symbols from both eastern and western mythologies. This is where Jung’s ideas also differ from Freud, he believed that people have a “collective unconscious” which influences them rather than just a “personal unconscious.”

Not only is Sukuna a sorcerer, he is “The Greatest Sorcerer”, he’s “The Honored One” (throw Buddhism into the mix with the polytheistic legend of who Ryomen Sukuna was). Sukuna was the peak of sorcery in the Heian era, and also the sorcerer all other sorcerers are compared to. A lot of the sorcerers of the past like Yorozu and Hajime agreed to the culling game, just for the chance of fighting Sukuna. Yuji even says “I almost forgot these guys are and will always be curses.”

Curses come from the collective pent up negative feelings of humanity, they are human emotions given physical form, they are born from the collective unconscious and Sukuna is the truest example of a curse there is. He is also an advocate for people living as selfishly as possible. He is pure instinct. He has a giant mouth on his stomach. The one and only servant he tolerates is a chef who is good at cooking them food. He’s a walking appetite who consumes everything including human flesh. His technique is based on cooking. His inner domain is on top of a massive stretch of water.

Sukuna isn’t just a product fo the ocean of the collective unconscious, he is the ocean.

My good friend @theanimepsychologist, the Jung to my Freud (this is a joke I don’t believe in Freud’s theories) also pointed out to me that

Psychologist: But at the same time it sort of fits with my own suspicions that sukuna is mara. he has his own agency but he exploits and corrupts because of the character's inner evil. we shall see Spooky: What is Mara exactly?? Psychologist: Mara = Satan. something about Buddha sitting under the boddhi tree and when he's about to reach enlightenment, Mara is like "hey what's up dude, but you could have all of these amazing hedonistic pleasures if you hang out with me"

Sukuna is someone who encourages every character to turn their back on enlightenment and live more hedonistically like he does, he scolds Jogo for relying on others instead of just focusing on getting stronger by himself, he quite literally takes control of Yuji and Megumi’s bodies to do evil things (slaughtering people in Shibuya, and now his attempts to kill Tusmiki) and makes them feel physically guilty for allowing him to take their bodies.

The whole purpose of the bath is to be near evil.

So, there you go my idea of what Sukuna is in Jungian Terms. He’s not the shadow of Megumi or Yuji, but the collective shadow of every sorcerer. By being the ideal of sorcerers. He’s not just based on the myth of Ryomen Sukuna, he’s a recurring myth in several different mythologies. He’s not human, he doesn’t want to be human, he’s like a living calamity, the truest curse there is.

#jjk meta #ryomen sukuna #meguimi fushiguro #jjk spoilers #jujutsu kaisen spoilers #jujutsu kaisen #jujutsu kaisen theory #jujutsu kaisen aanylsis #sukuna #jujutsu kaisen meta

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isitthemoon · 11 months

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The Real MBTI – an essay a rant by me, motivated by the dear @mazeinthemoon

Warnings: LONG (5330 words), rambling, not beta read, one singular curse word, me being a nerd, english is not my first language, may not make sense at times, may contain grammar and vocabulary errors, passionate but not well articulated. Really just a rant and me trying to explain something I care about. I’m also NOT an expert by any means, I’m not a Psychology major, just some person who happens to hyperfixate be REALLY interested on mbti and analytical psychology. If it gives me any credit, my therapist does have a specialization in analytical psychology.

1. What is MBTI?

MBTI (Myers-Briggs Type Indicator) is basically just a personality test, but thanks to sites like 16personalities and the internet giving it the same treatment as astrology (disclaimer: I love astrology and MBTI and it’s really sad to see them both being treated as just stereotyped boxes L) it turned into a different thing. Originally it is based on the ideas of this dude (/lh) named Carl Jung. On his book “Psychological Types” he describes what we call ‘Cognitive Functions’, basically different ways people’s brains are wired, explaning tendencies/behaviours/his thoughts on the 8 different psychological types. There are 8 cognitive functions and he describes them separately, so how did we end up with 16 personalities?

Well, there’s this thing called the function ‘stack’ that I’ll go into detail a bit laterksksks but it’s just a way to arrange the functions together. It’s basically (challenge: take a shot every time I say basically here) the way the functions are combined – each type having two different main functions. Add it up and bam: 16 personalities. But where does the myers-briggs come from?

I personally won’t talk much about them, but Isabel Briggs Myers and Katharine Cook Briggs were a daughter and mother duo that read Jung’s book and theory and were like “hey, this is pretty cool, what if we do something more with it?”, and so they basically gave birth to MBTI and popularized the stack and the 16 personalities.

HOWEVER…… somewhere along the way the mbti test became something else, no longer based on Jung’s cognitive function theory, but on another thing called ‘The Big Five’ test (please don’t quote me on that, I didn’t research this more because I honestly don’t care), separating the 4 letters from their original meaning. I’ll explain what they mean later, but for now, know that (for example) INFJ doesn’t really mean just Introverted iNtuitive Feeling and Judging.

[Update: I actually made an effort and researched more about The Big Five thanks to a lovely anon who explained it to me. More on how The Big Five and MBTI connect here]

ALSO want to clear some misconceptions: your “personality” or “psychological type” cannot change. This doesn’t mean people can’t change, it just means you can’t change your “brain engines”, basically. The “personality” starts being formed during childhood, and with age, it just develops, for better or for worse. And so, when things happen, sometimes it manifests (as in appears, shows up, acts in a certain way) in a healthy and positive way, and sometimes in a toxic and self-sabotaging way. You can always improve yourself and see new perspectives, but you can’t really change your “programation”. Think of it as your software system, if it makes it any easier to understand.

And another misconception is the percentage thing. I didn’t really wanna ruin the fun (😭) but I also don’t want to spread misinformation. Percentages are not a thing. You’re not 70% feeling and 30% thinking. You’re not 98% introverted and 2% extroverted. Honestly, no one would be healthy with this “stats”. I’ll explain it in more detail in the Stack topic, but everyone has Introverted AND Extroverted function. Everyone has Feeling AND Thinking and everyone has iNtuition AND Sensing. The functions are just treated with different “priorities” by your brain, and if you “abuse” too much of one, it’ll cause a warning, it won’t be healthy. “So basically everyone is an ambivert?” I guess????? Everyone has their moments and we all need to go out sometimes and stay alone other times. It doesn’t mean you can’t have a natural preference, though. This is getting long, so just hold these thoughts for now because there’s a topic just for thiskkkkk

2. Why should we care?

I mean, to most people it’s just another personality thing, maybe a way to have fun while stereotyping people or to blame all your flaws on like your sun sign (I’m a pisces btw ^^), so… why should we care about it?

I can only speak for me, so… first things first, it is science, so you shouldn’t be so skeptical about it. I like it because it is very well structured and explained, it makes so much sense to me and after you learn about the real thing, you start to notice it in people that are close to you. Also, like every single personality thing, it is a tool used to try and understand people better. To paraphrase an amazing youtuber (channel: dear kristin) it is a tool you can use so you can learn to love others better. When we understand each other, we can love each other better and have more empathy towards each other. It helps in knowing why some people do X and other people do Y when Z happens to them both. It makes it easier to know someone’s thought process and understand why they react a certain way, and it’s also a great tool to perceive people’s flawed tendencies as well as their natural’s strenghs. With this knowledge in mind, we can also focus on being better versions of ourselves.

And also, my most personal reason that I’m so passionate about this is: if I can make the effort and connect to and understand others, it means that people can do it too. If I’m capable of knowing this and seeing what others’ lives are like, it means other people can, even if just a little, understand me and get me. It means I’m not alone or disconnected. It means no one’s really THAT much of a weirdo that no one could possibly understand them. It means that I can be seen and valued the same as others. I’m gonna stop right now before I start crying and ranting about loneliness, thank you for your patiencekkkkk let’s move on.

3. So… then what are Cognitive Functions?

*sighs* okay I’m too lazy to try and explain it first with my own words so I’ll just copy-paste it from Wikipedia: “Cognitive functions, also referred to as psychological functions, as described by Carl Jung in his book Psychological Types, are particular mental processes within a person's psyche that are present regardless of common circumstance.” It’s basically, how I said before, a thought process, a perspective, the way someone’s brain is “programed” or “wired”. Don’t quote me on this but apparently it’s like using some parts of the brain more than others? Like that thing of “are you a left-sided or right-sided brain?” but more complex, I don’t really know how to explain it.

As I said before, everyone has an equal number of functions, which basically means everyone can make choices based on feeling and thinking, for example. What makes it special is that Cognitive Functions are NATURAL behaviours, your go-to’s, the processes you’re so used to doing that you don’t even realize it. In a basic (and unpolished) way, if you’re doing an effort to “make” it on purpose, it’s not a cognitive function. And according to your own preferences, some functions are more developed and others are more repressed. This comes back to the Stack thing *sighs* I promise I’ll get to it, but first we have to learn about the functions themselves. Let’s make some sub-topics:

3.1. Disposition: Introversion vs Extroversion

So, a function’s disposition talks about where its energy flow and its goal. Introversion means the focus is internal, on the self, on subjective things. Extroversion means the focus is external, on objective things and on outside “objects”. Jung talks about it in his book the “object” is basically any external thing, something that is not originated from whithin – be it feelings (the “object” being a place’s atmosphere and social cues, for example) or sensations (the “object” being external stimulation instead of you paying attention to your own body). Being Introverted means there’s a resistance, a kind of unwillingness towards this “object”, while being extroverted means you’re positive towards the “object” and adapting yourself to it. Extroversion expands, Introversion narrows. Extroversion explores and experiments, Introversion organizes and settles. Extroversion focuses on the object, Introversion focuses on the impression of the object. This applies to all functions, and divides them equally: 4 introverted functions and 4 extroverted functions.

3.2. Judging Functions: Thinking vs Feeling

Here comes the J you know from the 4 letters. To put it in a simple way (because I already talked too much and we didn’t even arrive on the functions themselves) Judging Functions talk about how you make decisions. Where you go to when making choices. There are 2 Judging functions: Thinking and Feeling. Copy-pasting again to make it more simple: “These functions determine how you make decisions; based on values, ethics, and the emotional needs of others (feelers) or logic, causality, and efficiency (thinkers).” Each one has their extroverted and introverted “version”, so:

Extroverted Thinking (aka Te), Extroverted Feeling (aka Fe), Introverted Thinking (aka Ti) and Introverted Feeling (aka Fi). Each feeling function has a complementary thinking one and vice-versa, meaning one cannot *be* without the other. Think of it like yin-yang, complementary opposites. If you have one, you have the other. So, Te has Fi (and Fi has Te) and Fe has Ti (and Ti has Fe). They’re often called “axis”, as in “The Fi-Te axis”, because when we talk about one function we often end up talking about their opposite and how they manifest together. The same applies to the following functions.

3.3. Perceiving Functions: Intuitions vs Sensing

This is the P. The Perceiving Functions talk about how you see the world, how you ‘perceive’ things, how you receive information and how you organize it. The perceiving functions are Sensing and Intuition. Again with the copy-paste: “These functions determine how you take in information; through your five senses (sensing) or through patterns and underlying meanings (intuition).” Again, both have their I and E version:

Extroverted Sensing (aka Se), Introverted Intuition (aka Ni) [and together they make an axis], Extroverted Intuition (aka Ne) and Introverted Sensing (aka Si) [also making their own axis.].

4. Oh my god, are we finally gonna talk about whatever the hell the “Stack” is?

Yes. Finally. Will I copy-paste some things? Probably. So…. What’s a Function Stack? Well…

There are 8 cognitive functions, right? Te, Fe, Ne, Se, Ti, Fi, Ni and Si. And I said that everyone has Thinking AND Feeling and Sensing AND Intuition. This means everyone has 4 cognitive functions (ACCORDING TO THE MYERS-BRIGGS THEORY, I’m only focusing on them, but basically what happens is that different people read Jung’s book and made different theories according to their own research and opinion). The Function Stack is just how these functions are organized according to your brain’s own preference and development. Look:

The 1st function, called the Dominant one, is your main function. It’s basically your autopilot, everything you do goes through this function, it’s how you live. “When we use a function that is destined to become “preferred”, we feel an emotional investment in what we’re doing, and we feel in control of our emotional life, so we keep on doing it. We tend to be more stimulated by the function. It then appears to “develop” or get “stronger”, and behaviors associated with it will increase”.

The 2nd, called the Auxiliary function, “helps” your dominant function, as the name suggests. It balances the 1st function and is there to walk beside it, and is not as developed as the 1st.

The 3rd is called… the Tertiary. It’s not as developed as the previous 2, and it is ALWAYS the opposite function of the 2nd one. This happens because of some concepts in Analytical Psychology that I wish I didn’t have to talk about, but I’ll probably make a sup-topic. We often like to use our Tertiary function in a relaxed way, since we have easier access to it that way. Some people describe it as our “Child” function because of that sense of curiosity as well as immaturity that children have, meaning we are curious to use it and enjoy using it in a stress-free way but don’t have the maturity level to use it in the “””right””” way.

The 4th one is called the Inferior function. It is the least developed and most repressed function, and it is ALWAYS the opposite of the Dominant Function. This Function often “comes out” in moments of stress or when we used too much of our dominant one. Because of this, it’s not exactly easy to use it in a healthy way. Because it is the most repressed one, our conscious brain doesn’t really “like” it, so when it comes to the surface it’s often in a toxic way. HOWEVER… it doesn’t mean this function is bad and you should hate it. This is the function that shows us our “weaknesses”, and at the same time, tells us how to overcome them. When people do something “good” aka achieve something with this function, they often feel very relieved, rewarded and satisfied. It’ll always be our least used function, but if we learn how to use it accordingly, we’ll walk one step further on the road that is Self Discovery.

Also just realized that I talked more about the Inferior than the Dominant. Huh.

4.1. SO… how does this work in practice? Is there a formula?

Why, yes, there is. Here’s the cake mold for you.

1st: pick one singular function among the 8 available. That’s the Dominant Function.

2nd: If the first function you chose was a Judging function, now pick a Perceiving function. If the first one was a Perceiving function, now pick a Judging one. The 2nd function brings balance, so it has the opposite disposition of the Dominant one (meaning that if the 1st was extroverted the 2nd will be introverted and vice versa).

3rd: this function is the exact opposite of the 2nd function. Reminder that Thinking is the opposite of Feeling, Intuition is the opposite of Sensing and Extroversion is the opposite of Introversion.

4th: this function, as said before, is the exact opposite of the Dominant function.

Let’s look at an example.

One: let’s say the dominant function is Fi. Fi is a judging function, so the auxiliary function has to be a perceiving. Fi is introverted, so the auxiliary has to be extroverted. That leaves us with two options: Ne and Se. Each auxiliary will make a personality type, giving us TWO personalities with the SAME Dominant Function (and so… 8 x 2 = 16 personalities). For now, let’s go with Ne. So far we have FiNe. The tertiary function is always the opposite of the auxiliary. The opposite of N (intuition) is S (sensing), and the opposite of E (extroversion) is I (introversion), so our 3rd function will be Si. And the inferior function is always the opposite of the dominant one. Well, the opposite of F (feeling) is T (thinking), leaving us with Te. Therefore, the full stack is FiNeSiTe.

Another one: this time, the dominant function is Se. Se is a perceiving function, so the auxiliary has to a judging function, with the opposite disposition. That gives Ti and Fi. Let’s go with Ti right now. The auxiliary is always the exact opposite of the auxiliary, leaving us with Fe. And finally, the inferior is always the exact opposite of the dominant, leaving us with Ni. Therefore, our final stack is SeTiFeNi.

See how every stack has 2 extroverted and 2 introverted functions? That’s to balance out the psyche. Same thing with – again – having T AND F and S AND N. That’s right, everyone is a Thinker, Feeler, Sensor and Intuitive. What differentiates everyone, as we just saw, is how these functions are organized within our brains.

To make it easier, here’s all 16 possible stacks, divided by Dominant Function:

FiNeSiTe / FiSeNiTe

TiNeSiTe / TiSeNiTe

NiFeTiSe / NiTeFiSe

SiTeFiNe / SiFeTiNe

FeNiSeTi / FeSiNeTi

TeSiNeFi / TeNiSeFi

SeFiTeNi / SeTiFeNi.

NeFiTeSi / NeTiFeSi

Bonus: how can we group the psychological types? Honestly, any way you want. For me, what makes the most sense is to groups the types which all have the same cognitive functions (they’ll just be in a different order). You can also group them by: same dominant function, same auxiliary function, Feeling Dominants, Intuition Dominants, Judging Function Dominants, Feeling Doms + Sensing Aux, and the list goes on. It’s just fun to see the ways they could go together.

4.2. Are you any curious why the 3rd and 4th functions are the opposite of the 2nd and 1st?

Well, allow me to try to introduce you to three very important concepts in Analytical Psychology in a very simple (and probably sidetracked?) way: the Self, the Persona and the Shadow.

Think of the Self as…. Like, your “true” Self, the most complete and authentic version of you. “The totality of a person’s being”, according to Jung according to this site I won’t reference said.

The Persona is “a role that an individual chooses to play in life or it is the impression of them they want to express to the outside world”. Think of it as a social “mask” (and no, it’s not being fake, everyone acts in a different way with different people, or are you telling me you treat a boss the same way you treat your sibling?), the surface or “light”/visible part of your personality. In this case, we can make a parallel to the cognitive functions. Persona = Dominant and Auxiliary functions, since they’re the ones that we use to navigate the world.

Now, Jung basically says that when we present something in our Persona, the opposite traits are repressed, but still exist within us. “Despite pushing them away, they may find a way in to our lives, either through what we refer to as out of control reactions, eruptions and being “out of character” in our attitudes and behaviours.” In our unconscious there is a bit of everything we don’t like. This is the Shadow. Bringing it to my analogy, Shadow = Tertiary and Inferior functions, because they’re the repressed and undeveloped ones. To reiterate, the Shadow is not always bad. If in your daily life you’re someone with a low self-esteem and a people-pleaser, in your Shadow there’s a high self-esteem, assertive version of yourself that knows how to set boundaries.

In psychological treatments using Analytical psychology, it’s often said that one of the main goals is the Integration of the Shadow. It means taking parts of the Shadow, looking at them, understanding, feeling, accepting them and learning how to use them to be a better version of yourself aka walking one step closer to the Self.

5. So… what does INFJ mean? What do any of the letters mean?

So, in the first topic I said, with these exact words, “that INFJ doesn’t really mean just Introverted iNtuitive Feeling and Judging.” I mean, they do mean what they mean, but there’s more to it.

The 4 letters aren’t supposed to be an acronym, they’re supposed to be a code. Yes, there’s a secret (not really) encoded message in the 4 letters of your mbti type!!! And what do they reveal?????

Your cognitive functions. Your function stack. That’s right, it was in your faces the whole time, and only now someone decided to tell you about it. So… how do you find it?

Let’s start with the INFJ example (because that’s my type!!! ^^). We’ll use it to see the formula for the 4 letters in ANY type.

The 1st letter – I or E: this shows us the Disposition/Energy of the Dominant Function of the type. In the case of the INFJ, the Dominant function will be an Introverted one (Fi, Ni, Si or Ti). But how do we know what functions are here?

The 2nd letter – N or S: this shows us our Perceiving function. “But doesn’t everyone have Intuition AND Sensing?” Yes, but when it comes to the code (or the 4 letters), they only show the Dominant and Auxiliary functions. In the case of the INFJ, we know that the Perceiving Function is Intuition, but we still don’t know if it’s Ni or Ne.

The 3rd letter – F or T: this shows us our Judging function. The same things said in the 2nd letter apply on this one. In our example of the INFJ, we know that the Judging function is Feeling, but again, we still don’t know if it’s Fi or Fe.

The 4th letter – J or P: Now here comes the catch. Being a J doesn’t mean you’re organized and being a P doesn’t mean you’re spontaneous. This letter reveals to us…. Which function is our EXTROVERTED function!!!! Being a XXXJ means you either have Fe or Te and being a XXXP means you have Ne or Se. It’s ALWAYS the Extroverted function, so it means your other function is the Introverted one. SO, if the INFJ is a J, it means that the Judging function (which we learned is Feeling), is the extroverted one, so…. Fe!!! This automatically means that the Perceiving function (in this case, Intuition) is introverted, so… Ni!!!! The two main functions of the INFJ are Fe and Ni!

Bringing it all together: So, if you go and think further about this, you’ll go…. “Hey. ENFJ also has the same functions, Fe and Ni”. And here comes the part about the Stack. Remember how the 1st letters shows us the energy of our Dominant function? If the INFJ is introverted, the order will be Ni and then Fe. For the ENFJ, it’ll be first Fe and then Ni. Applying our knowledge from the Stack topic, we can now say that the INFJ function stack is NiFeTiSe, and the ENFJ is FeNiSeTi.

Another example, let’s go with INFP.

1st letter: it shows us that the Dominant function is Introverted (we still don’t know which one).

2nd letter: it shows us that the Perceiving function is Intuition. N for iNtuition. We still don’t know if it’s Ne or Ni.

3rd letter: it shows us that the Judging function is Feeling. We still don’t know if it’s Fi or Fe.

4th letter: here it isss! It tells us that the Perceiving Function is the Extroverted one. So…. The INFP has Ne!

Bringing it all together: So, if the N is extroverted (Ne), automatically the F has to be introverted (Fi). Since the INFP is an… well, IXXX, it means the introverted function is the Dominant one. Applying the Stack Formula, we have the INFP function stack – FiNeSiTe.

You can also figure out the 4 letters from the function stack, kinda like revere engineering. Fun challenge: go back to the Stack list and try to assign the type letters to each one. Remember: the 4 letters only show the Dominant and Auxiliar Functions!

Also, in case you’re wondering how to pronounce the functions abbreviated forms, just say the letters in a separate way. Fe = eff-ee. I mean, there aren’t rules, really, so when I talk in my native language I just pronounce the syllable (as in pronouncing Fe as /Feh/ and Ti as /Tea/).

6. Is this when you finally talk about the functions themselves?

Yes. Finally. It only took almost 3.9k words to arrive here. But we’ll finally talk about how each function works. HOWEVER….. have in mind that each function “behaves” differently according to its position in the stack. What I’ll present here is the main gist, the basic meaning of the functions, the summary of the summary, with maybe some examples on how they look when unbalanced or unhealthy. If by now you’re REALLY interested, feel free to search more about it. Search something like “*insert function here* in all 4 positions” (or 8, if you want to see other models). One youtube channel that goes into this is INFJinxed. Another channel I really like, for knowledge AND comedy sketches, is dear kristin.

Now… after 4k words, let’s talk about each function individually. Finally, I’ll keep it simple, but I also recommend you going to the channels previously mentioned if you want to learn about them in a more detailed way. I’ll start with the Extroverted ones, then the Introverted.

Also, keep in mind that these summaries are how I got to understand the functions after doing my own research and reading Jung’s book, because 99% of the time I had no idea what people meant when they were repeating their static definition of the functions. If you want to look at other ways to explain the same thing, you can always do your own research, there are A LOT of people that already explained them.

6.1. Extroverted Thinking aka Te.

This function talks about objective norms, tradition, empirical truth, universal ideas, formulas (in any way), justice, and necessary actions. The ends justify the means. When unhealthy it turns into dogmatism and perfectionism. Think of “it HAS to be this way, and anyone who says otherwise is WRONG”. When unhealthy, everything is black and white. This is a result of the Inferior Fi coming through.

6.2. Extroverted Feeling aka Fe.

Fe talks about emotional accommodation and adaptation, objective or traditionally shared values, the feelings of sharing and belonging, “reading the room”, perceiving social cues and setting an atmosphere, what feels reasonable and/or fair. When unhealthy it turns into fakeness (lack of genuineness) and making negative/pessimistic generalizations. This has to do with Inferior Ti coming through.

6.3. Extroverted Sensing aka Se.

Se talks about being binded to anything sensorial, external stimulations, object conditioning, physiology, concrete processes/objects, realism, things for what they are, having sensations and enjoying them, also kind of an impulsiveness (as all extroverted functions are, but this means physical impulses). When unhealthy it turns into exaggerated skepticism, futility and lack of critical thinking.

6.4. Extroverted Intuition aka Ne.

Ne talks about an attitude of expectation, seeing external tendencies, searching infinite possibilities, a desire to explore and never to settle, being an adventurer (talking about ideas and ideals) and having a hunch. Think of it like having an itch to explore concepts, and after you scratch one, you’re “satisfied” and another itch appears. When unhealthy it turns into “jack of all trades, master of none”, lack of compromise and commitment, a type of detachment and paranoia.

6.5. Introverted Thinking aka Ti.

Ti talks about critical thinking, subjective and relative truths (“but what really is the truth?”), analysis of perspectives, theorizing, exposure and development of ideas (but not focused on applicability), debating and discussing. When unhealthy it loses sense, turns cold and inflexible, turns gullible and overly emotional, links their own truth to their Self (can’t separate own ideas from own personality, so criticism is viewed as a personal attack). Think of stereotypical philosopherskkkkkk.

6.6. Introverted Feeling aka Fi.

Fi talks about intimacy, fidelity to one’s own feelings, intensity instead of expression, internalizing things, an ease in being attuned to your own emotions (identifying, knowing, understanding and properly feeling them), focusing on your impression of things, the saying “still waters run deep”. When unhealthy it becomes egocentric, victimist and detached from others.

6.7. Introverted Sensing aka Si.

Si talks about subjective perception aka it doesn’t focus on the fact itself/what happened but on what it felt like/the impression it left, the external object only acts as a stimulation for the perception, also talks about cumulative experience and knowledge, resistance, persistence, attachment, focusing on summarizing, reducing and on the subjective participation. The reference is not the object, but the reaction to (coming in contact with) the object. When unhealthy it turns into obsessiveness, paranoia and hypochondriasis.

6.8. (Finally) Introverted Intuition aka Ni.

Not gonna lie, this function was kinda hard for me to explain because I just live it, every single day. It really is so natural to me that it’s hard for me to put this “explanation lens” on it. But here it is.

Ni talks about focusing on the elements of the unconscious, guidance by internal movement, mental images “triggered” by external things, an easiness in perceiving the processes of the unconscious, seeing underlying meanings, formation of ideals, “timeless knowledge” (to learn more, search about the Collective Unconscious and Archetypes), focus on the “How?”, the ability to generate visions (in the future/goal kind of meaning) and to speculate. What this function feels like is as if the meanings/ideas existed as separate entities, disconnected from one’s own mind, even if they were created internally. Think of that one Miley Cyrus meme: wHat Does it MEAN??? WHAT does it mEAN? When unhealthy it turns into a disconnection from the real world, physical sensibility and exaggerated attachments to things/people as well as dissociation.

7. Oh wow… that was a lot. So how can I know my type, then?

So. There are some tests you can do online based on the cognitive functions, but honestly the best way to know your type is learning about them and recognizing the functions in yourself. The information I just gave you here can be a great starting point, feel free to expand your research and see other explanations and points of view. Maybe my explanation just doesn’t click for you and you might understand the functions better as straightforward key-words or even as complicated metaphors. Good luck on your self-discovery journey ^^

Also, the internet may try its best, but an ACTUAL REAL Typology test can only be applied by a licensed therapist. That’s how I learned about my own type. My true type, because for YEARS I thought I was an INFP because of my misunderstanding of the cognitive functions. I did this +5k rant so you didn’t have to go through what I went through.

8. So… are we done?

Oh my god, I guess???????? We’re done???? Oh shit. I can’t believe I actually did this. And now I don’t really know what to saydkdkdkskkkkk. But I have an idea on where to start.

Dear Moon, what a crazy ridekkkkk I did tell you I was REALLY passionate about this and I did spend hours revisiting my knowledge and somehow studying for fun while doing this.

Thank you for encouraging me to infodump, I’m not really used to people being interested on my interests, so this really moved me (emotionally). Thank you for interacting with me and being so kind, I try my best to give the same treatment but I hope life/the universe/whatever cosmic energy you might believe in gives you back the good energy you put into the world, because I can only do so much.

I think I’m getting emotional because it’s almost midnight where I live and I’m quite sleepy, but I just couldn’t stop working on this. I really wish you all the best. Don’t be too hard on yourself. Remember to drink water. Treat yourself with the same kindness you offer us dear moots on this website/app. Thank you again for reading what turned out to be ACTUAL TEN PAGES!!!!!! And also +5.2k words. Have a wonderful night.

And thank you to everyone who read this until now. I’m just some nerd who likes mbti and decided to share the little I know on the internet, through my own point of view. If you happen to be a psychology major, licensed therapist or someone who also studies and/or understands mbti and analytical psychology, feel free to correct anything I might have explained wrong or unclear, as well as add your own thoughts. These are just my 2 cents, after all.

Have a great day, everyone. I’m Gio. This was my rant.

#🌙 gio talks #mbti #cognitive functions #analytical psychology #rant #long post

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pumpkinmetaphor · 4 months

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look i am so close to just asking r/jung about this but like

(screenshot of Kaoru reading "ego and unconscious" by Carl Jung from episode 20)

I don't think this book exists. I can't find any record of this being the title of a published text by Carl Jung.

MY belief is that he's reading what was published as Two Essays on Analytical Psychology, (which I have read, but need to refresh on) as it includes two essays (shocker) with titles similar enough to this, which discuss this specific theory. I'm basing so much of my understanding on what's wrong with this guy on that being the book he's reading.

Or were Jung's individual essays published like this at some point too? Was there a text published under this specific title in Japan? Has Google deteriorated so much that I can't even find a book that *does* exist by *Carl Jung* of all people? Because I actually fundamentally do feel like I'm missing something. Not about the content of the book but about the specific publication

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liberatingreality · 2 years

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Anyone who wants to know the human psyche will learn next to nothing from experimental psychology. He would be better advised to abandon exact science, put away his scholar’s gown, bid farewell to his study, and wander with human heart throughout the world. There in the horrors of prisons, lunatic asylums and hospitals, in drab suburban pubs, in brothels and gambling-hells, in the salons of the elegant, the Stock Exchanges, socialist meetings, churches, revivalist gatherings and ecstatic sects, through love and hate, through the experience of passion in every form in his own body, he would reap richer stores of knowledge than text-books a foot thick could give him, and he will know how to doctor the sick with a real knowledge of the human soul.

Carl Jung, Two Essays on Analytical Psychology (1928)

#Psychology #Philosophy #Politics #Mental Health #Education

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olderthannetfic · 1 year

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I think I'm going to get crucified for this opinion since it's Tumblr...but I really don't like extensive meta. I don't really see the point. At least how it is in my fandom. I never really encountered such detailed, looong character, theme, narrative etc meta until I got on Tumblr (and one of the reasons I almost never come back except to check in on a few blogs such as yours from time to time).

The thing that I'm finding is once you read one meta, you've basically read 97% of them. None of us has access to the original creator so we speculate, and in my fandom, things and subtext are pretty clear. There's very little to speculate or have wildly differing opinions on so it's just people posting the same essays ad nauseum. There's one in particular who's very popular that posts a panel by panel dissertation of the manga and on the surface it looks very deep and thoughtful but once you read it, it's just description of what's happening or things that are quite obvious, and they also italicise and strikethrough words in every sentence or two. And not important or challenging words. Just words like 'evil' and 'naturally'. Just italics after strikethroughs after italics.

I mean, yeah I just mute and I guess it's a fun hobby for some people. I don't mind that. But I think the thing that really bugs me is 99% of the meta-ists that I've come across write with this air of "I'm the first/only one that has thought of this. I'm the only one that that understands the character on such a deep level" when they're just saying things that are pretty obvious most of the time and most other people already think too and it just makes me kinda -.-' And it just goes round and round. I also feel like in my fandom at least, there's this elitism around meta posts. Like there's this unspoken belief that permeates the fandom that the people who understand the characters and story best and almost own them are ones that pump out these meta posts day after day. It feels like people don't recognise that you can show your understanding of pretty complex ideas through fanfic and fanart.

My own medium is fanfic because I find it much easier to express my very well thought out and intense thoughts and feelings about characters through prose and metaphor than analytical, formal style writing but fanfic in general just seems to be seen as an 'entertainment' while meta is seen as 'intellectual' even though I feel I capture so much good, psychological nuance in my writing, but I guess I'm frustrated that people don't see it that way because fanfic horny hur dur while the same recycled meta is held in awe. I guess I'm disheartened over the situation.

And no one please suggest I start writing my own meta ^.^' I tried, I don't like it. My brain just doesn't work that way. I want to make the characters come alive and show understanding through narrative, not analysis, and I'm very skilled at it. Just somewhat frustrated at the perception of different types of content in my fandom.

Nonnie...

I'm dying.

What do you think my tumblr is?!

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transmutationisms · 11 months

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people are always asking for ur thoughts but what are ur feelings on the season so far? i always see u doing so much brilliant analysis work but emotionally how do you feel towards the show, the siblings, the themes, etc? especially as it’s such an emotional season — or do you mostly interact with it through a critical/analytic lens?

lol honestly i usually steer away from emotional reactions on here because i think they say more about me than they do about the show, and i don't think it's really my posting niche, and also i'm pretty resistant to the personal essay–posting industrial complex in general. but since you asked and it's my blog. this season has been mostly working very well for me emotionally, which is to say it's delivered a good mix of gut-punch family moments, capitalist alienation, and the usual pathetic (both senses) bits from the siblings. i always thought logan was going to die in the last episode or two, but i'm actually really enjoying having this season so heavily explore the siblings' grief; it gives us certain insights into him and them that his presence prevented, and it also heightens the sense that the siblings really could walk out at any time, and they're all choosing not to—which is sort of the centrally angsty bit of the entire show. i have also felt like this season has actually gotten me into shiv's head in a way i found tricky before; her writing has gotten much stronger. i also have to say that like, as much as 'connor's wedding' was a good episode of tv, it was also emotionally harrowing in a way no other succession episode has been lol, and it's still the only one i have avoided rewatching. i mean, you know, relatability is a boring metric by which to judge a character, but it is also true that the psychological writing on this show works in a way that does actually get me invested in tv characters on a level i almost never do. so, i'll miss my fox news friends. i hope jesse goes full commie and makes something else with just as much bathroom motif and interrogation of the inherent violence of the family. you know how it goes.

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floareadeaur · 29 days

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I remember someone asking me if I have any rules on this blog.

What I am saying now, I do not think can be called a "rule", though. It is more of a realization that I am sharing to give a clearer perspective on the kind of content I can provide.

I have found myself unable to write any kind of 'x reader' content recently. Whether it is a scenario or headcanons, the moment I am asked for this type of content, my mind freezes and whatever I write in that specific format, I feel like it is not 'alive', like i lose a lot of characters' nuances like that.

I thought about it quite a bit and realized that I needed much more specific frameworks to write something that would satisfy me as an amateur writer.

Even before ( on my old blog ), I always gave a detailed personality to the "reader", because it was the only way I could realistically portray the dynamic between the chosen character and this "reader", as between two human beings. And yet, that vague style, where I only offered half of the full description (the part of the chosen character), tired and somewhat frustrated me, because I did not feel that I could "paint" that scene realistically enough.

Maybe it is the fact that I deeply analyze the characters psychologically and I always try to portray their existence as vividly and palpably as possible, as consistently human as possible, not in the "general" way, or according to a certain pattern, or request.

I feel that the characters in OnS have a special human consistency, they are written as individual entities that deserve to be explored in this way, and it is a variant that resonates with me the most.

I think this is the best option for me as a writer.

The type of writing that represents me requires time and detail. They are not a work of 'quick consumption'. I always work on them in my native language, I very rarely feel the need to write them in English.

Anyway, the conclusion is that I have realized that I love to analyze and I need as specific questions as possible to then portray how I see a character in a certain context. Detailed situations, detailed topics, write me exactly what you have in mind, as naturally as possible.

So anyone can ask me anything about the OnS characters, about the story. How I would see them be in a certain context, or how they would fall in love, as short examples. I can answer such questions from an analytical, highly detailed perspective, where I "paint" in some argumentative essay what x character is like as a human being in that situation.(even if the character in question is a vampire, I am talking about how I try to realistically portray the writing, as if the characters were living entities )

I do not know how well I am explaining this.

The basic idea is that I do not write "x reader" content in the form of scenarios, or headcanons, because it is too vague for me.

I believe that, especially in the portrayal of a romantic relationship, it is necessary to illustrate the dynamics of the two, the individual contouring of their personalities, their interests, showing what they see in each other, how attraction, love is formed between them. I think that is the realistic dynamic, and it is something I tend towards in my writing.

I can not be satisfied when I vaguely write 50% of a character's manifestation given to an "empty reader", which is how I feel about the reader insertion system now.

But like I said, I love to analyze, it is something that fascinates me. I noticed how I answer from an analytical perspective any question I receive about the characters. Either analyses, or scenarios taken from my individual prose.

So if anyone has a curiosity, do not hesitate to ask me! The more specific the better. It will be my pleasure to dive into the topic and analytically paint the answer found in the extraordinary nuance of that character!

Honestly, I do not know how much sense what I wrote here makes. For me it has, that is for sure. Thanks to anyone reading this and my blog in general!

Have a nice day to anyone who finds this post!

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marie-daniel · 7 months

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Anyone who wants to know the human psyche will learn next to nothing from experimental psychology. He would be better advised to abandon exact science, put away his scholar’s gown, bid farewell to his study, and wander with human heart through the world. There, in the horrors of prisons, lunatic asylums and hospitals, in drab suburban pubs, in brothels and gambling-halls, in the salons of the elegant, the Stock Exchanges, socialist meetings, churches, revivalist gatherings and ecstatic sects, through love and hate, through the experience of passion in every form in his own body, he would reap richer stores of knowledge than text-books a foot thick could give him, and he will know how to doctor the sick with a real knowledge of the human soul.

Carl Gustav Jung, "New Paths in Psychology" in CW 7: Two Essays on Analytical Psychology

#carl jung

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arefriendsdetectives2 · 2 years

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I had not anticipated plunging so deeply back into the study of T. E. Lawrence, but since I am still off rotation for another two weeks, I suddenly have time to read, again. This combined with receiving two Lawrence books as gifts (a reward for surviving 🤣)

A Prince of Our Disorder: The Life of T.E. Lawrence by John E. Mack

Lawrence in Arabia: War, Deceit, Imperial Folly and the Making of the Modern Middle East by Scott Anderson

I have enjoyed a shared interest in Lawrence & the resulting discourse. I was wondering if you have read either (or both) of the books listed above? Taking it one step further: could you list some of your favourite T.E. Lawrence books?

Thank you for your time and consideration!

Hello there! I think once you fall down the T.E. Lawrence rabbit hole you never quite escape.

A Prince of Our Disorder is a very good psychological study that made me really empathise with T.E. as a human being for the first time. Before that I'd seen him as an enigma, a puzzle to solve. John E. Mack was a highly empathetic as well as analytical writer, which is probably why APOOD is considered the best book about T.E. by many fans. I was deeply moved by parts of this book. It made me the T.E. enthusiast I am today.

I've only skimmed the Scott Anderson biography, so I can't give a full appraisal. It's dense on information about T.E.'s time in Arabia (which is actually the least interesting part of his life for me), and Anderson doesn't seem to quite get aspects of T.E.'s character, but it's worth a read.

I highly recommend Jeremy Wilson's official biography. It's long, it's detailed, and it's very good.

The first half of Dick Benson-Gyles's The Boy In The Mask is some of my favourite writing on T.E. I found the research he uncovered on Lawrence's family fascinating and moving. The book derails quite a bit in the second half, but the accounts of T.E. from Farida el Akle are lovely. It also contains a grim but informative essay on male survivors of sexual assault that's well worth reading. I've heard some enthusiasts dismiss the book and accuse Benson-Gyles of 'straight washing', but he has a great deal of sympathy and respect for T.E. and I think he grasps aspects of his personality that other writers haven't picked up on.

The Selected Letters edited by Malcolm Brown is another one of my favourites. T.E. Lawrence In War and Peace is very good too. I think some of his best writing is in his letters.

Another Life: Lawrence After Arabia by Andrew R.B. Simpson is a very good biography of T.E.'s later years. His very sensible approach to conflicting evidence and conspiracy theories surrounding Lawrence's death was a highlight.

T.E. Lawrence By His Friends and The Golden Reign by Clare Sydney Smith contain some lovely accounts from people who knew (and from some who secretly loved) him. I think these personal reminiscences are where we find the real T.E., the lovable, generous, very human man his friends knew rather than the myth.

Those are the ones I can recall now. If I think of others, I'll let you know. Happy reading!

#t e lawrence #t.e. lawrence #books #recommended reading

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rchetypal · 2 years

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"It is only because the persona represents a more or less arbitrary and fortuitous segment of the collective psyche that we can make the mistake of regarding it in toto as something individual. It is, as its name implies, only a mask of the collective psyche, a mask that feigns individuality, making others and oneself believe that one is individual, whereas one is simply acting a role through which the collective psyche speaks."

Carl Jung, C.W. Vol. 7: Two Essays on Analytical Psychology

#118 #jung #carl jung #persona #collective psyche #individual #individuality #mask

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decoloniality · 1 year

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"We know that the wildest and most moving dramas are played not in the theatre but in the hearts of ordinary men and women who pass by without exciting attention, and who betray to the world nothing of the conflicts that rage within them except possibly by a nervous breakdown. What is so difficult for the layman to grasp is the fact that in most cases the patients themselves have no suspicion whatever of the internecine war raging in their unconscious. If we remember that there are many people who understand nothing at all about themselves, we shall be less surprised at the realization that there are also people who are utterly unaware of their actual conflicts." - Carl Jung|"New Paths in Psychology" (1912). In CW 7: Two Essays on Analytical Psychology. P.425 https://www.instagram.com/p/CmEmj64o5Yd/?igshid=NGJjMDIxMWI=

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onewomancitadel · 2 years

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The persona and other Jung stuff in RWBY

I was thinking about Jung today (obviously, made lots of annoying posts about it) and who and what the personae are in RWBY. I tend to pay attention to Shadows and anima/animus because that's where my interest more often is, since the persona is:

“[…] a kind of mask, designed on the one hand to make a definite impression upon others, and on the other to conceal the true nature of the individual.” - C.G. Jung, Two Essays on Analytical Psychology, 1953

and the path to the Self and individuation is effectively slaying this false self, or identifying where you really begin and where it really ends.

I would also like to note that this quote is a good one to use on the persona, and Nightbloomwitch also used it in her essay on the Darkling, which I recommend for reading if you're interested in an analysis of his character, 'tracing his literary ancestry'. I also asked her permission a while ago to borrow her Jungian mindmapping, because I hadn't seen it done before. It really is a great essay - I hope she's doing well wherever she is - and incredibly fascinating, not to sound like I'm sucking up. (;

Here's an abbreviated description of the persona on the Carl Jung website, with its academic citation in the link (want to save space lol):

One could say, with a little exaggeration, that the persona is that which in reality one is not, but which oneself as well as others think one is.

A character such as Ben Solo has a persona of Kylo Ren, The Darkling is a persona etc. and that's why he reveals his true name to Alina when he dies (though TGT isn't a stellar example of Jungian storytelling). It's why what happens in Dark happens the way it does. Darth Vader - one of the best examples from the story that basically began the conscious repurposing of the monomyth - is the persona of Anakin Skywalker, that's why he is finally able to pass peacefully with the mask off.

But Cinder is an interesting case because her persona - like Raistlin from Dragonlance - is represented by another character that she imitates and wishes she were more like, who is Salem. Salem is also her master and whom she is literally enslaved to (slave to a mask/persona). This is why I've always talked about Cinder and masks.

Or, Salem and Madame are one conflated persona since she essentially tries to imitate both. When she killed Madame, she never truly killed the false self, and she was vulnerable to Salem. That's not her happy ending (or bad ending) or the end of her individuation. That's why Cinder needs to be meaningfully freed. ("Without you I am nothing," - without the mask/enslavement, she can't see who she truly is. See: the Fall Maiden's lesson she needs to learn. Look at everything already in front of you).

Salem's ending will be a reconciled peaceful death, I suspect. I was also thinking about Ruby. I think Ruby's persona is Summer Rose. I am currently wondering how many personae of the characters have to die. Qrow's persona was Clover, for instance.

That's why he teams up with his Shadow to kill the mask. (Qrow literally calls it a 'deal with the darkness'. I can't make this shit up, it's so obvious it hurts).

In summary, I love revealing things and the truth and narrative patterns. Let me supplement a Jungian mental psyche map, with Cinder's mapped out to complement it:

So you can see what I'm getting at visually lol.

#me pretending to understand jung #cinder fall sadsack tag

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isitthemoon · 11 months

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hi gio! i'm one of moon's followers and i saw your long mbti essay, good job on it!! i've only skimmed through it so far but i did read the first part and i wanna add more to your point you made about modern MBTI now being based on the Big Five -- because it's something that *i* personally care about, i'm a grad student in personality psychology and this *is* something i've read about a lot for my studies. (1/5)

Okay, so first thank you for reaching out and for explaining about the Big Five ^^ It really does work differently from MBTI and that's exactly my issue with sites like 16personalities. They're different but I guess they're somewhat similar, so people can correlate them. See here (from this site, that for the first time I'm actually showingkkkkk):

Both work very differently, but these concepts can be related to each other. I'm not saying I necessarily agree, since I don't understand the Big Five in depth, but there were people who made the analogy and somehow popularized mbti this way.

I think this did more damage than good for BOTH the Big Five and MBTI, since MBTI lost its Function aspect (making it only 4 individual letters with separate meanings, as well as adding another that was never there in the first place) and the Big Five also lost its depth (being used only as a reference instead of being used as its own thing). Even the stats thing, I assume was taken from the Big Five but then twisted from its original meaning. It certainly doesn't mean "I'm 70% extroverted and 30% introvert", but it became popular in this way.

My main goal with the rant/essay was to clarify/introduce people to what actual mbti and Psychological Types are, through the lens of Jung. And also to clear some misconceptions. Thanks to you now I know WHERE these misconceptions came from.

Also, the limited/superficial understanding of "true" mbti being so widespread turns into things like these (click for full photos)

This is from this site:

And also things like this:

From this link:

Which is a shame, not only because Analytical Psychology itself is undervalued and often not that well understood, but also because two great systems that people could use together (like people often put in their bios astrological signs with mbti, enneagram, temperament and other stuff) were taken out of context and then somehow put against each other.

Also I just realized I got too sidetracked from what you actually said, I just used this opportunity to develop some ideas I put aside and didn't make it to the rant. As I said there, these are just my 2 cents, so take it with a grain of salt.

What I mean to say (aka TL;DR) is: Thank you for explaining the Big Five ^^ I agree with you and I hope you can learn something from me like I learned from you. Stay healthy. Have a good day/afternoon/night 💜✨️

#🌙 gio talks #mbti #also #long post #the big five #personality types #psychology #analytical psychology #jungian psychology

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willtarica · 2 months

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Analytical Application 2: Structuralism and Semiotics

Catch Me If You Can (2002)

Definition: According to Christian Metz, a French film theorist, connotations convey style, genre, symbol and poetic atmosphere in film. Film semiotics emphasize signs and its relationship with signifiers and signified to reveal connotations that communicate the elements of style, genre, symbol and poetic atmosphere. Connotations are important to signifiers as it reveals the complexities of a film and how the viewer might interpret it.

Analysis: “Catch Me If You Can” embodies Christian Metz's concept of connotation through its poster and its symbolism. Metz hypothesized that connotation in film is the hidden meanings conveyed outside of literal material. The poster of “Catch Me If You Can” plays an important part in showcasing the themes and plot of the story. Both main characters are visible on the poster, Carl Hanratty, played by Tom Hanks, chasing Frank Abagnale Jr., played by Leonardo DiCaprio. Hanks chasing Dicaprio is just like the cat-and-mouse chase theme exhibited in the film. Even Metz would write about the significance of their positioning and how it connotes the power struggle and psychological tension between the two characters. Also, the background of the poster is white while blue arrows further prove colors the posters connotations, evoking a sense of urgency for the characters in this true story that's as thrilling as it is adventurous. Metz would note these visual elements in the cover art as signifiers, adding layers to the plot of deception while on the run. On top of this, the title is placed within the blue arrows to contribute to the narrative of a chase, the central conflict of the film. Metz would defend this as a deliberate choice of typography in an attempt to heighten the tension and anticipation of the audience. Certainly, the poster of "Catch Me If You Can" is effective as it purposely uses visuals to convey Christian Metz’s theory of connotations that further prove the themes of the film and the audience's interpretation of the story itself.

Metz, Christian. “Some Points in the Semiotics of the Cinema.” Essay. In Film Theory and Criticism: Introductory Readings, 65–77. New York, NY: Oxford Press, 2009.

Jackie Brown (1997)

Definition: The term "diegesis" is as Roland Barthes described it, the world that a story unfolds in. In film, diegesis refers to the narrative space created by the storyteller, like the Marvel Cinematic Universe for example. The story, the characters, and the actions of the characters take place in this world. Diegesis is the entire fictional universe that the narrative takes place in.

Analysis: Quentin Tarrantino’s film “Jackie Brown'' and Roland Barthes' concept of diegesis, the narrative world or story space created within a film, are aligned. Barthes claims that diegesis not only displays the events on screen, but beyond that, the cultural and ideological contexts within. In the “Jackie Brown” poster, the characters of the film are at the focus with Jackie Brown, played by Pam Grier, positioned in front. She stands confidently with an assertive manner, with a gun in one hand pointed at the viewer of the image. With Grier front and center, we can easily assume she is the protagonist of the film. Next to Grier are the other characters, Ordell Robbie played by Samuel L. Jackson, and Louis Gara played by Robert De Niro, as well as an open suitcase full of cash at the bottom to hint at the main plot point in the story. Both the characters and the bag contribute to the diegetic world of the film by giving the audience a glimpse into the characters lives and motives. Also, the poster is black and white with bright and bold yellow and red typography in the poster even though the film itself is shot in color. The title "Jackie Brown" commands attention due to its bold design creating an exemplification of the movie's intensity while the black and white color palette showcases the atmosphere as a classic poster of the crime genre. Barthes would agree that the poster represents the diegetic universe that the characters of "Jackie Brown" live and breathe in.

Barthes Roland. 1972. Mythologies. London: J. Cape.

Poltergeist (1982)

Definition: Roland Barthes wrote how filmic narratives are constructed and conveyed through film. Barthes writes how filmic narratives create meaning within stories by emphasizing visual elements, symbolism, and storytelling techniques. His work was extremely important to the greater understanding of images and its relationship with narrative in cinema by giving insight to how filmmakers create themes and intricate details in their work to convey a deeper meaning.

Analysis: “Poltergeist” is an iconic horror film with a poster that exemplifies Roland Barthes' idea of filmic narratives, that examines visual and textual elements by creating meaning within the film and broadening its context. Barthes writes how filmic narratives suggest not only the significance of the linear progression of the story in a film, but also its symbols, motifs, and textual cues that help the viewer further understand the plot and themes of the story. In the poster for “Poltergeist,” the only image is of a young girl staring at a bright television while her hands are pressed against the screen; we can’t see her face. This famous image establishes the movie's supernatural horror elements as it hints at the film's paranormal focus in the plot. The poster is also dark and black and white with the only light coming from the television screen. The glow of the screen surrounds the girl whose doll is on the ground beside her. Below the image of the girl is the title bolded, “Poltergeist.” The title is the focal point of the poster since its block font emphasizes the supernatural aspect of the film. Beyond this, the tagline “They're here” showcases dread and suspense, setting the tone of the thrill the audience is about to experience. Barthes would view the poster to be a visual narrative that utilizes intense imagery and captions with a bolded title to convey the themes and tone of the film. The poster's composition is necessary for the audience to expect the supernatural horror elements of the narrative.

Barthes Roland. 1972. Mythologies. London: J. Cape.

The Rocky Horror Picture Show (1975)

Definition: Roland Barthes wrote that the meaning of myth is a form of speech and communication, outlining that it bends the truth instead of hiding it. Barthes emphasized that myth is how history converts itself into nature by naturalizing a value and/or belief explored in the myth itself. He examined how myths function in society and its impact on the world.

Analysis: “The Rocky Horror Picture Show” poster is so famous and it can be analyzed as a myth according to Roland Barthes, incorporating a transformation of historical and cultural values using symbolism that reinforce the ideology of the movie. “The Rocky Horror Picture Show” is a cult classic and the poster perfectly exemplifies myths in contemporary society. The main and only image in the poster is a mouth with bright red lipstick biting the bottom lip. This represents the main character Dr. Frank-N-Furter played by Tim Curry, symbolizing a subversion of 1970s social norms with gender fluidity and sexual liberation. Dr. Frank-N-Furter is far more than just a character as he represents a rebellious figure pushing the boundaries of culture back then since society was far more traditional. Above the image of the mouth is the title in bold red letters, dripping like blood droplets. The tagline of the film “A different set of jaws” is also below the image. The significance of the lettering and font further prove the myth at hand by referencing the horror aspects of the film while balancing comedic elements as well. Barthes would have viewed this poster as the definition of myth since Dr. Frank-N-Furter is a layered symbol of the progressive culture of the time that experimenting and bending the rules. There's a reason why the film is still watched t this day and a major factor is how the poster utilizes visual cues to subvert the audience with myth creating a timeless piece of entertainment and art that is “The Rocky Horror Picture Show.”

Barthes Roland. 1972. Mythologies. London: J. Cape.

Rush Hour (1998)

Definition: Swiss linguist, Ferdinand de Saussure, made his contributions to semiotics and structuralism by defining the term "sign" as signified, a concept, and signifier, a sound image. The signified and signifier are intertwined as they have a significant influence on language, semiotics and structuralism by creating meaning and further helping an understanding of signs and the importance of its context.

Analysis: The poster for the film “Rush Hour” is the fundamental definition of Ferdinand de Saussure's writing on signs, how signifiers, the form of a sign, and the signified, its concept, create a package to evoke meaning for the understanding of the viewer. Jackie Chan and Chris Tucker, the two main characters are pictured front and center on the poster. Chris Tucker has his hand up like he's about to fight while Chan’s arms are crossed. Both are smiling at the camera to display the comedic aspects of the film while they stand firm evoking the action filled adventure of the plot. Their facial expressions, poses, clothes etc. all are signifiers that display information about the characters, their motives, and the story itself. On top of the characters being in the forefront of the cover art are the visual elements of a city skyline and yellow police tape with the title on it to show how the film is full of action. The utilization of signifiers gives the viewer important context about the setting and how it's a story involving police. The text itself it black outlines in white, standing out in a poster that is primarily yellow and red. The tagline on the poster reads “The Fastest Hands in the East Meet the Biggest Mouth in the West” giving the audience important information about the two characters' vastly different backgrounds. Certainly, Saussure would view this poster to have many signs that use visual and textual signifiers to enforce the themes of the film.

Course in General Linguistics. 1966 First McGraw-Hill paperback ed. New York: McGraw-Hill Book Company.

#@theuncannyprofessoro #oxyvisualanalysis #structuralism #semiotics

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