#to get defined by fandom

[the-woman-upstairs]

In the universe of the film, there is ABSOLUTELY a contingent of fans that fervently ship Argylle/Wyatt and have the dominant ship on AO3 and trade elaborate fan theories about their hidden relationship and are convinced they’re meant to be endgame but the publishers won’t allow it. Of course, they go totally BALLISTIC when they learn they’re based on the author and her boyfriend.

#argylle #argylle spoilers #my only real complaint with argylle is that we were robbed of a henry cavill/john cena kiss #there’s so much fun to be had with the universe of this film especially in regards to the book fandom #i like to believe aidan stirs up ship drama on fandom forums and social media #the minute rachel’s spy past gets declassified it’s OVER for her in fandom lol #i can appreciate not everyone being into the film’s bait and switch #but i can’t help but love a spy film that lets the female lead be a whole women struggling to define herself #while also kicking ass and having a sweet goofy guy be head over heels for her #this really is the kind of movie that fandom could have soooo much fun with #don’t even get me started on elly/rachel projecting all of her badass spy escapades on a super manly fit dude #like if he’s done everything she’s done…girl memory-holed her own bisexuality lol

[anghraine]

Okay, breaking my principles hiatus again for another fanfic rant despite my profound frustration w/ Tumblr currently:

I have another post and conversation on DW about this, but while pretty much my entire dash has zero patience with the overtly contemptuous Hot Fanfic Takes, I do pretty often see takes on Fanfiction's Limitations As A Form that are phrased more gently and/or academically but which rely on the same assumptions and make the same mistakes.

IMO even the gentlest, and/or most earnest, and/or most eruditely theorized takes on fanfiction as a form still suffer from one basic problem: the formal argument does not work.

I have never once seen a take on fanfiction as a form that could provide a coherent formal definition of what fanfiction is and what it is not (formal as in "related to its form" not as in "proper" or "stuffy"). Every argument I have ever seen on the strengths/weaknesses of fanfiction as a form vs original fiction relies to some extent on this lack of clarity.

Hence the inevitable "what about Shakespeare/Ovid/Wide Sargasso Sea/modern takes on ancient religious narratives/retold fairy tales/adaptation/expanded universes/etc" responses. The assumptions and assertions about fanfiction as a form in these arguments pretty much always should apply to other things based on the defining formal qualities of fanfic in these arguments ("fanfiction is fundamentally X because it re-purposes pre-existing characters and stories rather than inventing new ones" "fanfiction is fundamentally Y because it's often serialized" etc).

Yet the framing of the argument virtually always makes it clear that the generalizations about fanfic are not being applied to Real Literature. Nor can this argument account for original fics produced within a fandom context such as AO3 that are basically indistinguishable from fanfic in every way apart from lacking a canon source.

At the end of the day, I do not think fanfic is "the way it is" because of any fundamental formal qualities—after all, it shares these qualities with vast swaths of other human literature and art over thousands of years that most people would never consider fanfic. My view is that an argument about fanfic based purely on form must also apply to "non-fanfic" works that share the formal qualities brought up in the argument (these arguments never actually apply their theories to anything other than fanfic, though).

Alternately, the formal argument could provide a definition of fanfic (a formal one, not one based on judgment of merit or morality) that excludes these other kinds of works and genres. In that case, the argument would actually apply only to fanfic (as defined). But I have never seen this happen, either.

So ultimately, I think the whole formal argument about fanfic is unsalvageably flawed in practice.

Realistically, fanfiction is not the way it is because of something fundamentally derived from writing characters/settings etc you didn't originate (or serialization as some new-fangled form, lmao). Fanfiction as a category is an intrinsically modern concept resulting largely from similarly modern concepts of intellectual property and auteurship (legally and culturally) that have been so extremely normalized in many English-language media spaces (at the least) that many people do not realize these concepts are context-dependent and not universal truths.

Fanfic does not look like it does (or exist as a discrete category at all) without specifically modern legal practices (and assumptions about law that may or may not be true, like with many authorial & corporate attempts to use the possibility of legal threats to dictate terms of engagement w/ media to fandom, the Marion Zimmer Bradley myth, etc).

Fanfic does not look like it does without the broader fandom cultures and trends around it. It does not look like it does without the massive popularity of various romance genres and some very popular SF/F. It does not look like it does without any number of other social and cultural forces that are also extremely modern in the grand scheme of things.

The formal argument is just so completely ahistorical and obliviously presentist in its assumptions about art and generally incoherent that, sure, it's nicer when people present it politely, but it's still wrong.

#this is probably my most pretentious fanfiction defense squad post but it's difficult to express in other terms #like. people talking about ao3 house style (not always by name but clearly referring to it) as a result of fanfic as a form #and not the social/cultural effect of ao3 as a fandom space #you don't get ao3 house style without ao3 itself and you don't get ao3 without strikethrough and livejournal etc #and you don't get those without authors and corporations trying to exercise control over fic based on law (often us law) & myths about law #and you don't get those without distinctly modern concepts of intellectual property and copyright #none of those things have fuck all to do with form! #anghraine rants #fanfiction #general fanwank #long post #thinking about this partly because the softer & gentler versions of fanfic discourse keep crossing my dash #and partly because i've written like 30 pages about a playwright i adore who was just not very good at 'original fiction' as we'd define it #both his major works are ... glorified rpf in our context but splendid tragedies in his #and the idea of categorizing /anything/ in that era by originality of conception rather than comedy/tragedy/etc would be buckwild #ivory tower blogging #anghraine's meta

[iwoulddieforienzo]

The Percy Jackson fandom really needs to learn how to tag properly lol

Edit: it occurs to me that my habit of talking in the tags makes this post harder to reblog and get my point across. While I didn’t actually intend for the fandom to see this initially, I have decided that it annoys me enough to make this reblog-friendly. So here’s the tags I originally put down:

#snack time #Percy Jackson #PJO #HOO #TOA #solangelo #<- relevant tags because I’m talking to the fandom at large and I brought up solangelo specifically #(honestly the solangelo thing bothers me more than anything bc it makes it impossible to find content of JUST Will or JUST Nico #which bothers me because. tbh. I don’t like solangelo that much lmao #they’re cute don’t get me wrong I don’t HATE them I just. don’t care for how they’re defined exclusively by their relationship #ESPECIALLY Will. they’re sweet I just would like to see them on their own and also explore other relationships that they have)

[mezucore]

next stop on my bookbinding journey is the couple down the street by @godlizzza which was one of my greatest most fun reads ever. i wish it could have gone on forever

#some fics are what i call fandom defining. meaning i think they had a significant and lasting impact on the fandom they were written for #this fic. that's fandom defining #here are the boring details: #it's a massive A5 sized book #the pages total nears 400 because i have included a section after the epilogue with all of the related prompts from Imagine Me & You #it feels sturdier than my first book and i changed my sewing thread so it's also easier to read ! #i did the whole cover using the geometric lasso tool in csp bc i didn't feel like drawing with the tablet and i think it was a good decision #if only i could get better at gluing the covers on straight #i spent the whole night working on it and watched the entirety of reanimator & bride LOLL #also my printer was going through it. i had to change the ink midway through and redo it all over again #lastly #I love love LOVE this fic #book-binding #my art #re-animator #danbert

[oceanwithouthermoon]

sometimes i think about how the people who hate on my takes on here would talk to each other and its always phrased like the twitter fandom drama i see but completely irrational and it makes me giggle

"calling kusuke abusive just because he shot his brother with a lethal weapon, plotted his murder, planned to use their grandparents to assist in hurting/killing him, and tried for years to expose his secret to the entire world against his will and through knowingly hurtful means in order to destroy everything he cared about is so stupid! what a stretch!"

"the saiki k fandom is so damn sensitive. i shoot my brother with massive guns all the time and its not abusive because he just blocks it!" HELPEKSJJSJSKSKKS

#sorry i have absolutely no beef with anyone this is just funny #its just an opinion and i have nothing against people with a different opinion than me #its just funny how they think IM irrational when this is legitimately their thought process #and they come directly onto MY page and cry about people having diff opinions #like girl u do NOT see me doing that shit thats so embarrassing stop #im not even a kusuke hater like thats my man #but even if i was- i dont get why that bothers people so much like y r u so scared of different opinions #i sometimes talk about teru or saiki haters i dont like but that isnt defined by 'literally anyone who doesnt like them' #idgaf if people hate my fav characters- i just hate the WAY certain people hate them that shows they didnt understand the show #YOUR definition of 'evil kusuke haters who must be purged from this fandom' is literally anyone who has an opinion on him- #-that isnt sunshine and rainbows and kusuke is the most morally right and sympathetic character and nobody else deserves him !1!1! ur crazy #oh this isn't targeted at any specific person btw im just being dramatic #i havent acknowledged this at all in months idk what compelled me to do so now #the single anon that barely even said anything just made me think back to this #nobody gets him like i do i swear i swear #saiki k #tdlosk #the disastrous life of saiki k. #saiki kusuke #meows post

[utilitycaster]

I enjoy shipping, but I cannot see the appeal in watching shows only for the purpose of shipping; I think it closes you off to so much. I think coming into a work with the expectation that it will only succeed if a particular configuration of people end up happily in a relationship with each other when the curtain closes means you will reject so many unexpected choices altogether. It destroys your ability to appreciate the entire concept of tragedy. Just, imagine refusing to let yourself enjoy "I'm not a gardener" because you are too furious that a different kiss than the one you wanted happened to feel other emotions.

#does shipping above all make you less empathetic: I deadass think it does: an ongoing investigation by m utilitycaster #this alludes to candela bc i'm still thinking about how good that line is and how (thankfully only a couple) people ignored it #bc they were so mad that the horror show was a tragedy and that marion kissed jean instead #i suspect though that this is behind the viciousness of the c2 ships. people genuinely used the word betrayal for a thing never promised #and some of the extremely mean-spirited nature of some c3 shipping; even among ships where i see the appeal #like i am not against shipping. i like shipping. but if you define I Get My Ship as success you will be miserable and bitter so often #and i think this ALSO is why like. 19 year olds will act like they are a veteran of years of queerbaiting. #when in fact they're a veteran of watching shows bc they saw one (1) out of context gifset and thought that was a guarantee #anyway i've cracked it follow for more analysis of the nature of fandom and how it should probably be like car rentals #fandom old? no. fandom young. go get some life experience and perspective first. the trekkie housewives never missed.

[dyketubbo]

i remember seeing someone call tubbo a fully grown adult at 19 (obvs before he turned 20) and i gotta say. i think maybe some people have a really skewed idea of what constitutes as "fully grown". and also what constitutes as properly mature. thinking that at 18/19 (or hell even at 20/21) people are now fully grown and mature is insane to me like yall thats how you get people thinking their life is over at like 23 and that 30 year olds are senior citizens 😭😭 be fr

#this is a problem no matter where you look but i think a lot of ppl in the mcyt fandom esp seem to think once youre- #-considered an adult at all that it automatically means youre fully grown and mature and thats just nooottt really true for most ppl #which i think can lead people down to sort of dangerous paths especially because 'adult' is often defined by age of consent #and theres also some slight cultural differences like even just between the us and the uk where due to 18yr olds being able to drink in- #-the uk (and other places) i think it genuinely causes some dissonance #where i see often in the us that when youre 18/19 youre still treated (id say rightfully) as being rather young and not Truly a grown adult #hence. yk. the term Young Adult #but i think in places where the drinking age is younger it starts causing people to see younger people as more mature #which is also why a lot of predators like to push for the age of consent to be at a younger age like 15 or 16 #and why many lolicons try to point at japans age of consent (which for the record is complicated and not as simple as just 'age of consent- #-is 13') as a defense for how they act #because these sorts of milestones (having sex and drinking) are seen as marks of a true adult. which gets into a whole lot of other #complicated things #and often dangerous things and ways of thinking #ANYWAYS . basically 18/19 isnt fully grown 20 is also hardly fully grown itself #and theres ways to combat people infantilizing tubbo and other creators his age without acting like hes actually #fully grown and mature lol. i promise you humans are not fully grown at 20 years old are you kidding me 😭😭😭😭 #if youre in your 20s you still have a lot of time and space to grow i promise. do not fall for the idea that your life is done by like 23 #idk. im only 18 myself but it just feels insane to me that if i were a creator people would be calling me a fully grown adult #not that im not an adult but i dont think im mature enough to be seen as fully grown and i guess itssss. sad? #to see other people my age think that turning 18 means youre fully grown. just really not true #theres a lot of 30 year olds who still see early 20yr olds as being practically babies we have Not made it to full maturity yet i prommy #mask mews

[cyanbeetle]

I’ve tried like 500 times to articulate my thoughts about nonwhite superman and how much that adds to his childhood of loneliness and every time I hit a stumbling block because the topic makes me too insane to think but please hold my hand and imagine this little boy trying to grow up in rural Kansas and being the only person he���s ever known who looks like he does. This little boy who never has a proper answer when people ask where he’s really from, and even once he knows the truth of himself he can never safely share it. Please imagine him fighting every single day to belong and never being able to no matter how hard he tries because people will always find something questionable in the very way he looks. A lot of the superman mythos is dependant on Clark’s ability to assimilate but when you take that away what is left?? He’s just a kid fighting so hard for a belonging he’ll never have a hope in hell of being handed. Oh it hurts my heart

#dc #supermanposting #sorry I genuinely ache about it #I know visibly brown Superman is a relatively common headcanon in dc fandom spaces so it gets me thinking abou #how that would change his story #especially in the comics where he isn’t told he’s adopted until the Kents need to explain to him what these power manifestations are… #this is also what my superman comic was about btw #I have so many ideas in my head about how his relationship to himself would change after moving to metropolis #and becoming superman #AND EVEN HOW THE PERCEPTION OF SUPERMAN WOULD CHANGE!! #Clark not being white adds an entire new layer to his need to remain nonthreatening enough for people to actually tolerate him #as well as the scapegoating he experiences when he’s declared foreign or out of control or threatening #and I think Clark’s ability to eventually relate to all the nonwhite and immigrant communities of metropolis would be what saves him #and saves his self esteem #there are so many beautiful people in the world just like you!! #if I had my way superman would be way more defined by his connection to marginalized communities #anyways sorry I have genuine pages of thoughts about nonwhite superman #please ask me about nonwhite Superman I love nonwhite superman #sorry I hope this all makes sense it’s very late at night

[fromtheseventhhell]

It's crazy how everything about Arya gets people upset cause why do people hate (and actively try to deny the fact) that Arya likes lemon cakes? 😭

#arya stark #people refuse to be normal about her #only this fandom could turn a child liking sweets into discourse #it' so controversial and for what? people will really argue you down over such a small detail JUST because it's about Arya #and then insult Arya stans and act like we're /stealing/ from Sansa like please get a grip #is Sansa truly so bland and basic that one of her only defining characteristics is /likes lemon cakes/??? #or is liking lemon cakes too /soft girl coquette aesthetic/ to be associated with Arya? 🙄

[breezypunk]

How do you get so much love for your Cyberpunk 2077 screenshots? I spend hours posing, setting up lights etc etc but I get 0 love. Ok, I'm definitely not a professional photographer, but 0? Teach me, plsssss.

Oh my goodness, I need to gather my thoughts for this because as someone whose struggled with this for a long time, I understand 100% how you feel right now and I just want to give you a bit of advice.

I'm not a professional either, and what I mean by struggle is that when I first came into this fandom I came in with nothing. I hardly got any notes or any recognition for my posts as well.. Granted I was on console and console users sadly don't get the love they deserve, and I think they deserve just as much love if not more from people, and that doesn't happen, it's a fact.

When I started using mods and got on PC, I still barely got anything, and it started becoming a struggle for me because I fed off of validation and approval from others, and that is something I still struggle with to this day, maybe not as much, but I def still do and I think most people in this fandom do. No one can say they don't crave validation, we ALL do, if we didn't we would post n o t h i n g. And while I do agree that we should post for ourselves, we also post because when we do something we are super proud of, we want others to see it and enjoy it as well and there's NOTHING wrong with that at all. We reblog our things multiple times to push it out so other's can see (and because the algorithm truly sucks, just my opinion).

I was desperate for validation because I craved interaction and friendship, that's all I ever wanted, and I wanted to bond with people I have the same interests in and because of my desperate need for it I made enemies, still to this day. It only makes you feel icky on the inside when you're constantly trying to appease others, and while it's normal to want validation, it's not normal to only do it for that and that alone. I don't know who you are anon, and I cannot "teach" you, simply because what you're doing right now is good enough, not even good, it's great & regardless of how many people interact with your VP, you are good enough and you shouldn't stop, because if you love it that's the #1 most important thing. But also don't be afraid to reblog your stuff! Reblog it as often as you like.

Also, P.S.. I am still not always proud of what I do. I still get a little envious, it's human nature, I'm on a shitty laptop with horrible graphics and I can't do much with it, but I love taking VP, it's a passion and I will do it no matter how it looks. You should do it too, the best part of doing it is doing it because you enjoy it with no regrets. Sometimes this fandom will make you feel like you have to be the very best or at the very top for people to interact with you or enjoy your VP/art, and sometimes that's true, mostly it's true... but there are still good people here who genuinely appreciate all forms of VP, whether it's console, modding, gorgeous lighting, no lighting at all, etc. It's all beautiful, and at the end of the day, that validation is gonna come and go anyway. But you will continue to look at your art and go "yeaaaaah, I did that :)"

So please don't feel upset for getting "0" love, cos I promise someone loves it.

#personal #anon asks #cyberpunk 2077 #cyberpunk 2077 fandom #getting personal here and outing my own struggles #because I have nothing to hide and I want to be as transparent as possible and honest when it comes to this type of stuff #please if anyone feels this way know your VP/art is wonderful and amazing #and validation is just a number #and yeah it's normal to want it and we all do #but it's not everything I swear #don't let numbers define you #even if we struggle with it #also feel free to reblog if it resonates

[kyoryu]

is miraculous ladybug trending on fifth bc of buggachat's au. are you kidding me

#this defines the fandom so fucking well like #i swear that comic is singlehandedly the best thing to come out of thats stupid show #the fact it manages to just get everyone together and treat it with asmuch regard as canon is awesome #ive said before and i will say it again #give mlb to tumblr user buggachat NOW #miraculous ladybug

[leqclerc]

@f1blrcreatorsfest Week 3: Music Artist-Inspired ↳ Sebastian and Charles + songs released in 2019 Shameless / Piece Of Your Heart / You're No Good

#formula 1 #f1edit #charles leclerc #sebastian vettel #sebchal #*shows up 2 days late with starbucks* #i like the concept and i would've liked to include more songs but im tired of fighting photoshop honestly it took long enough already 😭 #i tried to go for a more moodier mid to late 2019 vibe where the rivalry was kind of intensifying & everyone was talking about the tension #which tbf a lot of that as we now know was blown out of proportion but it was the prevalent vibe in the fandom & fic sphere #and in a lot of the ~defining fics that i consumed when i was first getting into them as a pairing and researching what i had missed out on #and i guess i have a nostalgic soft spot for that darker moodier more sultry rivalry vibe and mentally it's something i like to go back to #a lot of it is a direct product of the narratives and thought processes at the time and sometimes you just need to step right back into 201 #so these are songs that to me are reminiscent of that era ig and what i associate with it and the fics that capture that zeitgeist for me #f1blrcreatorsfest23 #* #*mine: gif

[doodlingwren]

Hi hellooo- i saw that you started follow me and i asked my self "why and how a talented artist made brain connections to decide to follow this low quality artist", did i look funny? 🥺

Do I look talented? 🤨😳

#wren inbox #wren draws stuff #btw found your blog while I was wandering in the StS tag #the fandom here is pretty tiny and not super active like idk on Twitter #not that's a bad thing btw #and I'm always happy to find people that share a bit my interests :3 #and don't u dare to define u a low quality artist #or imma start a fight alright' #sorry for the late reply <3 forgot to check the inbox for a week and then I didn't know what to answer bc I don't get a lot of asks lol #have this silly doodle of Aldebaran idk what he's doing :3 #he's the silliest cowboy in the Sanctuary fr no cap #“do I look talented” and then adds the dumbest doodle she could find on her tablet

[lilyhoshikawa]

(*throwing rocks at the P5 fandom*) we are going to TALK abt how futaba’s shadow is the embodiment of wrath, we are GOING to talk abt how she joined the thieves not bc of their moral crusade but bc of her personal desire for revenge and how she feels lesser bc of that, we are GOING to talk abt the subtle themes of anger that futaba has in her character that are constantly swept aside to just make her silly and cute while the anger and depth of other characters is highlighted

#I understand it I really do. futaba is really silly and funny and cute and we should appreciate her for that! #but she’s also a full character who has nuance and depth and her anger and self-hatred and desire for revenge are part of that!! #she openly says the mission of changing hearts really doesn’t matter to her. she joins them to get revenge. and she feels bad abt that! #and the game never really addresses that again and never lets her learn that her anger isn’t a bad thing and that her actions define her #she never gets to learn that she can still be a good person and do good even if she doesn’t feel morally pure abt why she does it #all of this is tied into her autism btw. these are very autistic feelings to have but both the game and fandom prefer to infantilize her #rambles

[littencloud9]

abelabyss you will always be famous in my heart

#mashle #abelabyss #ive not dared to write fic for them yet bc ive not finished the manga and i dont wanna miss out on like. potentially impt moments that would #really define their characters. plus its a tiny fandom so im a little Scared #but when i get to it!!! i will!!!!! #abyss razor #abel walker

[13eyond13]

What's an actual example of a canon ship that's enemies to lovers btw?

#asking because i can't think of too many in the media i've read or seen #the one that's coming to mind is jon snow and the wildling chick in GoT #just trying to figure out if it's a trope i'd actually like #and i don't mean fandom shipping enemies who don't actually get together in the media i mean it legit goes that way in canon onscreen #i'm not somebody who usually like shops around for media based on tropes but #someone asking me about good tropes/fic cliches to apply to lawlight got me thinking about this #i guess it might somewhat depend on how you define 'enemies' as well? #like anne of green gables hating gilbert at first for making fun of her hair and getting good grades too #yes she hates him for a bit but is that enemies? it's more like rivals #as he doesn't even dislike her / act mean to her again after that and it's not like they're trying to kill each other or anything #hmmm... #p