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#therese gelle
frevandrest · 6 months
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Blérancourt drama: Thérèse Gellé's mother attacks National Guard and tells them to fuck off
I was going through Monar and I found about an incident from 1790 Blérancourt, involving SJ's arch-enemy (from the village), Gellé. Or, more precisely, his wife, Thérèse's mother. It's a small thing but it's sending me so much. Background: Gellé doesn't want to serve in the National Guard because he is a royalist. So a delegation is sent (possibly/probably) by Saint-Just himself to check why he is neglecting his duties.
Monar writes (Google translated; emphasis mine):
At nine o'clock, under the command of Captain Clay-Lefebvre, four men of the National Guard, a cook, a carpenter, a white tanner, and a day laborer, presented themselves with the letter before the Gellé's house. If the social status of the delegation, which was unquestionably quite low in the eyes of a wealthy Notabein, was intended as a provocation, it achieved its goal: Mrs. Gellé stepped out and immediately indulged in such indelicate words against the guardsmen that the expressions in question were only indicated by the first letter in each case in the protocol that was later drawn up. She [...] continued to shout at the National Guardsmen: que son mari la [la garde] monterait pas, n'étant pas fait pour se trouver avec des bandes de canailles, de coquins et de geux comme eux et ceux qui composaient leur f... milice. [her husband won't stand guard, as he was not the kind to find himself among groups of scoundrels, rascals and bandits like them and those who make up their f...(probably "foutu" so "fucking") militia] - translation by @robespapier Having already thrown ashes at the speechless, she finally picked up a stick to strike a blow at the captain, who flinched and drew his rapier.
It ended up with Gellé and his brother appearing and the delegation went back. But! A detailed report was made about the incident by SJ's best friend Victor Thuiller. Which was later used as a proof of Gellé's anti-revolutionary behaviour.
This hilarious (?) anecdote is just one of the many (many many) instances of Blérancourt bickering and drama early in the Revolution. There were a lot of tensions, often at the Gellé vs SJ front (well, royalist vs revolutionary front), and it's so, so interesting to me. I need to make a list of all the incidents and research them in more depth.
But seriously? SJ had a LOT of practice with political bickering before he got to the Convention. But also, since this is a village of 2.5 600 people, it also reads like a total soap opera.
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In a modern world, Therese would work at a bath and bodyworks and Saint Just would work at the coffee shop across the street. I want to write it, but I must practice self control-
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saint-jussy · 1 year
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Frevvers trying to figure out whatever did or did not happen between SJ and Therese in Paris:
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suburbanbeatnik · 2 years
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A sketch I did some time ago for @jefflion aka @frevandrest-- this depicts Saint-Just and Thèrese Gellé in happier times, the the ruined castle near Blérancourt where they often met for liaisons before her marriage and Saint-Just left for Paris for good. Someday this will be painted! Someday when I have more time... 
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fructidor · 2 years
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skater boy but it’s saint-just and therese gelle & robespierre is the narrator
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Frev piercing au [incorrect] quotes
Saint-Just, smoking to be edgy: “look at me I’m so edgy she’ll definitely want to go out with me now.”
Therese: “that’s disgusting. You know smoking kills you, right?”
Saint-Just: [immediately tosses cigarette on the ground] “you are so right-“
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Oopsies.
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I haven’t made anything for the frev piercing au™️ in a while, and I wanted to hammer in the fact that Thérèse is in it (once again) so here’s this.
She does not have many piercings, just a classy three in each ear. Sometimes she braids the two front portions of her hair, you know, for an added bit of ✨spice✨.
Poor Saint Just dropped all of his books the moment she walked into the hall to her locker and ✨graced everyone with her presence✨. (He tries to talk to her and either ends up falling or slamming his face into a locker door as it opens and she is amused but concerned for his wellbeing) (“I admire your gusto :)” “I’d admire your face but unfortunately I got to admire the locker door more closely instead…”)
(They get matching tattoos later on-)
Yes, I know, the age proportions for everyone are weird. BUT, I know that Thérèse was ~one year older than Saint Just, and in the frev piercings au he is a freshman when Robespierre is a senior so it all works out to having Thérèse be in 10th grade.
(I have been working on this for 2-3 hours. My spine hurts.)
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frevandrest · 1 year
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do u have any info on Thèrése Gellé and SJ's relationship?
I have all the info there is! Which... is not much. What we know is that something likely did exist in terms of a romantic relationship in their teens (and maybe later, but that one is not proven). Some things could be extrapolated from little that we know, but we have only a few facts. What we know is the following:
Thérèse Gellé was born in 1766 in Blérancourt, as an illegitimate child of a local merchantess and a powerful royal notary Gellé. She was legitimized at 12, when her parents married each other.
SJ moved to Blérancourt at the age of 9. Thérèse was 10. We don't know when they met but since this was a super small community, I assume they knew each other (or at least, knew of each other) as kids.
At some point during their teen years, they seemed to have started a romantic relationship. There are no concrete sources for it except that it’s generally accepted that it happened. What we know is that in December 1785, they were godparents to a child in the village. Some historians see this as a sign that they were seen as a future married couple and chosen together because of this. I am not sure how sound this theory is, but I do think it’s interesting that they were chosen together.  Interestingly, most of the proof/sources for the relationship come from SJ’s early writing (namely, Organt and Arlequin-Diogène). While Thérèse is not mentioned by name, the context and certain (auto)biographical details that appear in these works strongly point out that the main female characters were based on her. (If anyone wants me to talk about what SJ’s writing (potentially) says of Thérèse and/or their relationship, I’d love to do that - I just have to do it in a different post because this one is getting super long). According to some, SJ asked Gellé for a permission to marry Thérèse and was refused. Not sure if this is true, but since SJ was 18 at the time and still in school, AND not particularly rich, it’s not surprising that Gellé wanted a more “prosperous” option for his daughter. 
Which brings us to 25 July 1786. While SJ was away at the boarding school,  Thérèse married Emmanuel Thorin, a young notary from a rich family. Historians agree that this marriage (done seemingly in a hurry) was specifically to prevent SJ from marrying her.
SJ graduated and returned from school a few weeks later, and he lost it. Reportedly, he had a huge fight with his mother (for not telling him that Thérèse was getting married? For not presenting him as a good option to Gellé?) Soon after, in early September 1786, he took that infamous silver and ran away to Paris. (I assume this episode is familiar. It resulted with his mother putting him in the correctional house where he stayed for six months, until early 1787). 
We don’t know what - if anything - happened between SJ and Thérèse after these events. What we do know is that the Revolution started and Gellé was a royalist who tried to stop revolutionary efforts in the village (he was the one who outed SJ as being too young to be elected for the Legislative Assembly in 1791). So yes, there was a lot of animosity between SJ and Gellé on the political grounds, but we don’t know anything about Thérèse during these years or how she might have reacted to all of this. 
But there is a significant event in summer 1793. On the 7th anniversary of her marriage, Thérèse left Thorin and went to Paris. She stayed in a hotel very close to SJ’s place. We know this because SJ’s friend, Victor Thuillier, wrote a much-quoted letter about it. In the letter, he informs SJ that the village believes that SJ had kidnapped Thérèse (not against her will?) and also gives SJ Thérèse’s address in Paris. To which SJ replied basically: “I have no idea what you’re talking about. Tell everyone (in the village) that it’s not true. I am very busy, bye”. (Not direct quotes - you can read more in the link above, though not sure if it’s the best way to translate these letters). 
Historians are divided over what happened. Those who are sympathetic towards SJ want to defend him against accusations of having an affair with a married woman, so they trust his word on it. Those unsympathetic towards SJ generally think that he lied and that he was totally behind Thérèse’s escape to Paris. But what I am more concerned about is how things worked form Thérèse’s POV. She left her husband, AND the village thought that it was because of SJ. This ruined her reputation beyond repair. Even if she did not cheat on Thorin, she was the one who was seen as leaving. 
As for SJ, nobody really talks about a possibility that he did help her, but not necessarily as a lover but as a friend - he wrote so much about protecting women from abuse and unwanted marriages that it wouldn’t be so impossible that he helped a childhood friend (tbh, it would be more shitty if he refused after writing so much about helping women). As for the affair... We don’t have any proof either way (except his reply to Thuillier). I disagree with historians who claim that “SJ would never”, because most of his writings actually point out that he was fine with women performing marital infidelity and the like. But this is not a proof either. So we just don’t know. 
Thérèse and Thorin had a divorce hearing in September 1793. Historians point out that the reason for the divorce they listed was not adultery, but Thorin didn’t seem to ask for a no-fault, mutual decision divorce either. He seemed to ask or a divorce based on the fact that she left him. In the hearing, Thérèse said that the divorce was mutually desired and she seemed to have asked for her dowry back. Their divorce was decided then, but they had to wait for about 11 months for it to become legal. They were legally divorced in July 1794 (18 days before Thermidor). 
That is basically it. We have no idea if SJ and Thérèse had any contact or what she did between this divorce hearing and Thermidor. We do know that she was kind of shunned in the village, while Thorin remarried and had children. Thérèse died in 1806, at the age of 39. 
There is one thing, written by SJ near Thermidor, that some people argue could be related to Thérèse, but there is absolutely no proof of it: that strange “story” about a lovers’ misunderstanding. It was the last item written in the notebook found on SJ during Thermidor, and it is super unusual because he left no other writing of this kind, but it’s impossible to say whether it has anything to do with  Thérèse or not.
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frevandrest · 2 years
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What I learned today (thanks to @robespapier ): Coucy castle is 14 km (3h on foot) away from Blérancourt.
It means SJ would have to go all that way for a "private time" with Thérèse. Now, we don't know if it really happened in the castle, but that rumour seemed to be well-established and the castle is said to be a go-to place for amourous meetings of locals.
And I know teens will do an effort to make out, but 3h of walking (+ 3h to go back) sounds too much. How fast on a horse? It really sounds like they could have picked a more convenient spot.
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Every time I hear “The Winner Takes It All” by ABBA I just think of Therese Gelle and Saint Just.
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frevandrest · 1 year
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I like the idea of Therese and SJ reconnecting if the Revolution ended well.
I want Therese and Maximilien to meet and SJ to panic
Don't get me started with a joke post that’s actually my pet conspiracy theory that I like to ramble about!
Ok, so SJ and Therese didn’t have to wait for the Revolution to end to reconnect. According to SJ’s village, they totally did reconnect in summer 1793, when Therese left her husband and went to Paris to live in a hotel that was like 5-10 minutes away from SJ’s place. 
There is no indication that they did meet in Paris, but we have a letter from SJ’s friend Thuillier informing him that the village believes that SJ had kidnapped her. Thuillier also gives SJ Therese’s address in Paris. To which SJ basically answered something along the lines of: “wtf? Tell everyone it’s rubbish, gotta go, very busy, bye”. Now, I believe SJ that he did not kidnap Therese, (especially not against her will, which were serious accusations; like Fabre was sentenced to death for that in the 1770s) but idk if I agree with historians who conclude that SJ’s reply proves that they absolutely, 100% did not meet in Paris. 
The whole thing is just so weird, with too many coincidences to simply reject the possibility that they did meet. Plus, Therese was in Paris to meet SJ (I guess? Why else would she go there?) and I assume she’d make an effort to see him. And there’s also that later rambling from SJ about how “if a couple don’t have children after 7 years, they are to separate” (Therese left her husband exactly on the 7th anniversary of their marriage, and they didn’t have children). So yes, I totally believe that SJ and Therese met in Paris 1793. 
There’s nothing indicating they were romantic* at this point, though - maybe he helped her as a friend (they did knew each other since they were kids, after all), and SJ talked so much about protecting women from unwanted marriages that I like to believe he’d help a friend. But as much as SJ/Therese super shipper Madeleine-Anna Charmelot would disagree, there is no proof that they were in a romantic/sexual relationship at this point. 
*There are no indications of any romantic or sexual between them except, maybe, that SJ’s short story, but that one was prob written close to Thermidor and there’s zero proof it’s about Therese (was she in Paris at all at that point?) It’s more that people assume Therese because we only know of few people ever linked to SJ romantically.
(But if the short story was about Therese, it hints at not everything working well for them and her being reluctant to fully commit (to what? the story is unclear) and SJ losing it because he was ride or die for people/ideas and expected others to be, too).  
I want Therese and Maximilien to meet and SJ to panic
I don't understand what you mean by this. Why, do you think that there is some chance that SJ was romantically
involved with Therese at this point? 😛
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I just watched the stage play of The Phantom of the Opera on amazon and
Frev piercings au theater kids .
Cant stop picturing senior year Therese and Saint-Just as Christine and the Phantom nobody can take that from me. They would, for lack of a better positively “slay”.
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frevandrest · 2 years
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Did SJ r-word Thérèse? And if so did he really love her? Or is it simply, one-sided. I have looked and found there to be "ah yes SJ was vvvv upset about getting taken away from her" but then, to me it also seems like he used her in a sense. Cuz he was like (based on your post) "oh a woman has a crush on me time to take her without consent" and she just went with it because of her feelings towards him, and I assume the slander of those times for r-word victims.
Tbh, I cannot find anything else if he like r-worded her. Do you have any other articles I could read about the whole thing? or is there just that one source you once linked in the post
The post was an excerpt from a fictional story by Guy Breton. It is not based on a historical source. Well, some things are true: SJ and Thérèse Gellé were godparents to a baby in December 1785, and it is likely that they were a teenage couple. But there are no indications of anything shady or non-consensual whatsoever.
I believe they loved each other as teenagers (and might have continued a relationship later?) SJ moved to Blérancourt when he was 9. Thérèse was 10. It was a small village, and it is likely that they knew each other since that age. It seems that they began a relationship as teenagers; in fact, some historians assume that this was why they were both picked by a local family to be godparents to their newborn. There are also indications that SJ wanted to marry Thérèse.
But! He was very young (not even 19), still in school, still without a job, and also not particularly wealthy. Thérèse's father didn't see SJ as a good option for his daughter, so while SJ was away in the boarding school, he married Thérèse to another man (on 25th July 1786).
A few weeks later, SJ returned from school and was shocked and devastated to learn of Thérèse's marriage. This is what reportedly prompted him to fight with his mother, and it ultimately ended up in SJ taking that silver and escaping to Paris.
There are also rumours about SJ continuing a relationship with Thérèse later, but no solid proof. However, what we know is that she left her husband on the 7th anniversary of their marriage (July 1793) and ran away to Paris. She rented a room in a hotel that was very close to where SJ lived. The village blamed SJ and even talked that he kidnapped her, which he denied in a letter to his friend. Therese proceeded to get a divorce, which became legal on 10 July 1794. And 18 days later, SJ was dead.
We don't know if there was indeed a relationship between them in Paris; historians generally negate it, because SJ denied to had kidnapped Thérèse in a letter. So, there is no proof that they continued a relationship at that point. There is a weird "story" about lovers meeting and having an argument/misunderstanding that SJ wrote in one of his notebooks (in fact, that was the last entry in the notebook found on him on Thermidor, so it was probably written close to it), but there is no proof of the identity of the lover in the story. (There is no proof that it's autobiographical at all, except that I can't imagine it being fiction.)
That being said, some (Thermidorized) people did try to use Thérèse leaving her husband against SJ. I know at least one author who insists that SJ kidnapped her and made her be with him, in the exchange of having her father and husband released from prison. But it's bullshit, because while it's true that her father and husband were later imprisoned as royalists, this was months after she left her husband and when the divorce was already decided. She left her husband while he was free. What IS true, though, is that her father and husband were (surprisingly?) released from prison in March/April 1794. Some historians argue that SJ was behind it, and that he ordered them to be released because Thérèse begged for their lives. However, this is not proven (except that they were released, and I think there are indicators or at least speculations that it was under SJ's orders. But that's not proven).
So tl;dr: We don't know much about Thérèse or her relationship with SJ, but what we know points out at a consensual relationship with no shady elements of that kind.
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frevandrest · 2 years
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Did Saint-Just take advantage of Thérèse sexually? I was looking for more based on one of the latest posts you reblogged and couldn't find anything.
No, he didn't. The post was a passage from a fictional book by Guy Breton, who loved to write stories about French historical people having sex. It's always over the top at least in some details (like here, having sex in a room next to the one where the whole family is having a lunch). But it's all fiction. Sometimes, it is based on some sources (often unreliable), but a lot of it is just Breton making shit up to create more exciting/scandalous stories.
The stories were written in the 1950s and 1960s, and reflect the sexual mores of the time. They are all very straight, and very heteronormative. For example, in the SJ and Thérèse's story, she is seduced by SJ and decides to have sex with him, but uses insense vapours as an excuse of why she is "giving herself" so easily (not my interpretation, but the vibe of the story).
But it's not true. Yes, Thérèse Gellé and SJ were godparents to a child from their village (in 1785), but that's all. It's unlikely that it was the first time they met, and while it is very probable (almost confirmed, as this can be confrimed) that they were a couple as teenagers, everything we know about it (which is, admittedly, not much) points out at a consensual relationship on both sides.
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frevandrest · 2 years
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14km does sound too much to make out but then I once saw a friend run 4km to play Minecraft, so. Teens can be determined.
Fair enough! It's more "joke's on me", because it took me all this time to realize Coucy castle is not, in fact, 15-20 minute on foot away from Blérancourt.
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