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incarnadinedreams · 1 year

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So I finally finished reading TGCF! (The main novel, I haven't gotten to the extras yet). I watched the first season of the donghua ages ago (right after I watched what was available of the MDZS donghua at the time and before I read the MDZS novel), then started reading TGCF as the first volumes of the official English versions were releasing and fell off.

My original plan was to "catch up" through book 5 and just keep up with the official releases. As soon as I finished book 5 I immediately abandoned that plan and went straight to the fan translations (whatever, I'll still be buying the officials as they release so I don't feel too guilty about it).

Anyway, I am feeling..... surprisingly normal about this book? I enjoyed it and had fun reading it and so far have not felt any inklings of obsessive derangement over it.

(Extremely long and rambling first impressions/thoughts after a single quick read below the cut, probably not that interesting. May contain major spoilers, and sorta comparing it to MDZS and specifically JC a bit just because the comparisons get pushed a lot because of the overlap in the fandoms)

Anyway, as a Jiang Cheng Enjoyer I've fairly often seen people say things like 'you should just read TGCF, Mu Qing is actually what JC stans wish Jiang Cheng was' or 'Mu Qing is Jiang Cheng but done right' and I just....... kinda don't see it?

Anyway... Is it just me? Am I stupid and missing something?

I mean, there are some obvious parallels and MXTX very clearly has a pattern/dynamic/formula she likes with the 'best friend side characters' slot, re-used some similar surface-level descriptions for Mu Qing that had been applied to Jiang Cheng (bad-tempered, sarcastic, unlikable, good looking, etc). So I'm definitely not saying people are totally wrong for seeing a connection there.

But they didn't actually feel all that similar to me beyond a handful of traits? And not only because of the tragic lack of jilfy purple electro-whip.

I think part of the problem is that Mu Qing suffered from a serious case of "tell, don't show" in his portrayal... in the text we're being told by other characters that he's so unlikable or has such a nasty personality or is so untrustworthy... but then rarely or never actually says or does anything "on camera" to show that?

Like, this isn't "he has done nothing wrong!" in the "I shall protect this precious blorbo of my heart" way, it's in the "ummmmmm... he has actually... not done anything wrong in this situation...? And I am confused as to why these characters are reacting to him in a way that is so wildly out of proportion to what has actually happened?"

As much as I love Jiang Cheng, he does at least actually say some mean things "on screen" in the novel to earn that bad-tempered sharp-tongued characterization. I might personally think he was perfectly justified in saying about 98% of them and being pissed as hell, but at least he actually does the being angry and bitter and verbal lashing out that he's characterized with. (Though I think he actually does a lot less of it than people seem to think, as most of the time he's just being pretty normal actually. But there are some scenes at least.) Of course, conversely, Wei Wuxian does also do many more actually bad things to balance it out too and make JC's on-screen anger/reactions make a lot more sense.

But Mu Qing on the other hand... a few snippy comments and some eye rolling? Everything else always ends up being someone else baselessly accusing him based on some accidental circumstances that got cleared up with reasonable explanations. His involvement in the whole turf war over the meditation place was mostly him showing up after the rest of them had already made up their minds and he was trying to de-escalate the situation without losing the job he was using to support his mother with or creating more problems.

The only kinda bad things I think he does (be okay with the idea of using the Human Face Disease against the Yong'an people to stop it from spreading in the Xianle capital city) is one of the few things that nobody actually has any issue with him for! You could argue that it was bad to get Hua Cheng kicked out of the army... but also he was 14 and there are no actual details given and tbh that kid was kinda creepy from an outside perspective (even if I liked him)...

To be honest I'd seen a few people making vague comments about his "betrayal" in the past so I knew it was coming, but "I'm gonna go take care of my mom instead of doing these former rich fuck's laundry" was so deeply underwhelming on the betrayal scale I was like "wait, that's it?"

I mean there was not even a siege involved...? Not a single declaration of hatred? Not even a little bit of threatened torture?

Anyway, I was already still feeling some kind of way about that royal laundry situation when I got to the scene in Mt Tonglu where Mu Qing is all "I was in awe of you, you're a better person than me and I wanted to be your friend" while Xie Lian is like "um well you'd spit in someone's cup but you wouldn't poison it so I don't want you to die I guess."

I just felt sort of vaguely put off by the whole exchange and the sense of a total lack of reciprocity from Xie Lian. His whole vibe is "well I don't dislike you enough to let you die, and saving people is my thing in general so, y'know, here I am saving you."

Because what made the whole dynamic work in MDZS was how (even if the characters didn't necessarily know it about the other) they just cared about each other so much, to an absolutely unhinged degree, and that felt missing here. So even though WWX has some of the same vibe of negative or resentful opinions of JC at points, it hits different because they're laid on the backdrop of an utterly unhinged sacrifice specifically and uniquely for Jiang Cheng (which, unknown to WWX, was needed because of a more standard in type but but still unhinged sacrifice of his own that was specifically and uniquely for WWX)

I don't necessarily mind that specific relationship being different or less intense in TGCF (in fact I prefer that it's not just a copy-paste of the same characters going by different names with a bit more polish, the way some people made it sound like it would be), but the way that specific scene played out given the backdrop of how MQ keeps getting treated throughout the rest of the story just felt icky to me. Idk.

A lot of the way the characters interacted with each other just felt like the action and reactions were a little mismatched or something? Something about the behaviors involved didn't ring as painfully, horribly, clearly true to me as they did in so many MDZS scenes.

Anyway I did enjoy both Mu Qing and Feng Xin as characters, I'll definitely be indulging in some FengQing content (recs/links welcome if anyone actually read this far lol), just specifically their relationship with Xie Lian did not inspire in me even a teensy fraction of the depths of absolute feral obsession that the Yunmeng Shuangjie relationship does. It... just did not resonate that way with me. If I had to speculate (in a wild and baseless fashion, source: my ass), I think that toning down the intensity might have even been intentional on the author's part this go around.

Anyway a lot of that was mostly because the expectation of a strong parallel and deep reaction to the Xianle trio's relationship was pre-planted in my mind, and such expectations are generally always doomed to fall short anyway.

As far as the rest of the novel, like I said - it was generally quite enjoyable, I had fun reading it, I'm certainly not trying to trash it! I'd say I actually overall enjoyed the HuaLian relationship developing in the novel itself more than WangXian, in terms of how the flirting was executed. Like "what if you had an extremely dangerous and fervently obsessed stalker, but also make it cute". I don't dislike WangXian, but for me their relationship was just a fun side-plot and not what I really cared about or kept reading for. I did find the Hong-er and lantern ghost flashback scenes quite touching and sweet.

The first ~200 chapters (by the web novel serialization chapter numbers) I'd say were generally constructed better than MDZS, so I see where people say there was a bit of a level up there. The last ~40ish chapters the pacing felt kind of off to me, like there was just too much crammed in and MXTX just wanted it to be over and done with.

The 'uncovering secrets of an ancient lost empire/kingdom' type of plot is my absolute jam, my favoritest trope of all time, I actually loved the concepts there. It was like a two-for-one, since we got the learn about the fall of Xianle which scratched that itch a little bit, and then the full-on mystery aspect with Wuyong. I wish there had been more time spent on the mystery/uncovering information about Wuyong aspect of the plot rather than the answers coming relatively quickly.

Unsurprisingly in addition to Feng Xin and Mu Qing, I was a huge fan of Yushi Huang, Ling Wen, Shi Qingxuan, He Xuan, Lang Qianqiu (his adorable golden retriever energy is irresistible when combined with a Tragic Backstory), Guzi, Yin Yu, Quan Yizhen

Surprise favs were Pei Ming (I'd only seen through the donghua S1 so I kinda had him categorized in my mind as the offscreen God of Fuckboys, but ended up liking him an unreasonable amount) and Qi Rong

Anyway I had all of these thoughts while I was reading then felt a bit guilty about them when I read the postscript because I am the person she was afraid of coming over to read TGCF after MDZS :x

#rambling about tgcf #and specifically some thoughts I had about the comparisons I've seen floating around between jiang cheng and mu qing #not particularly well thought out or anything

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megsbooklr · 8 months

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Summer Reading 2023: July

A quick summary of what I was able to read in July!

Finished:

A Case-Book of Sherlock Holmes by Arthur Conan Doyle

The last one! I liked that in this collection we're back to cases that don't necessarily involve murder ^^ It also features the moment between Sherlock and Watson (as well as one of Sherlock's most savage replies to Watson's attempt at reasoning, to balance things up xD). And I was really happy to realize what was going on in Thor Bridge and Lion's Mane quicker than Sherlock did, lol :D

The House of Silk by Anthony Horowitz

(The "official" Sherlock Holmes novel penned by a different author)

It. Was. Amazing!!! The prose truly felt as if it was written by Doctor Watson, long into his retirement. The story is a tangled one, involving not just one but two cases, many lies, much cruelty, a huge scandal and conspiracy, elusive foes... and equally elusive temporary allies :D I loved it! It can be easily incorporated into the canon.

The Three Monarchs by Anthony Horowitz

(The "official" short Sherlock Holmes story penned by a different author)

I'd say it's nothing very remarkable, but it's just like canon short stories and it reminded me of the one with plaster busts, but the resolution was completely different :) so it was an okay read.

Prelude to Foundation by Isaac Asimov

Got it as a graduation present from my lab - and finally had the time to read it :) I loved it, it was an easy to read and compelling story with twists that I didn't even anticipate. I'd like to read the other books in the series too!

The Ghost Bride by Yangsze Choo

After watching the TV series a few years ago, I wanted to read the original novel. Finally I did! The plot and characters were quite different from the drama ones, but both versions worked for me. The book is much slower and focuses more on the heroine herself, as well as the detailed descriptions of both the real world and the afterlife. And Erlang was a fantastic character in the book ^^

Sachiiro no One Room by Hakuri

The last volume of the manga made me cry uncontrollably for quite some time... (and this reaction of mine scared me a little, ngl :)) Wow, what a journey it was. Read it if you can stomach stories about child abuse.

The Summer Hikaru Died vol. 1-2 by Mokumokuren

It's a slice-of-life horror BL manga. Not mu usual go-to genres :D so I did not really plan to read this series... but I checked out a few chapters and decided to give it a chance, since I wasn't that much scared by the horror part. Indeed, so far it's been a really interesting, slightly spooky story! But apparently there's a lot of it still ahead of us.

Moriarty the Patriot vol. 15 by Ryosuke Takeuchi & Hikaru Miyoshi

This volume begins telling the story of what happened after the Moriarty Plan had been realized. I'm re-reading the whole series (this time in my native tongue) but I'm still as emotional about certain scenes as I was when seeing them for the first time :')

BSD vol. 23 by Kafka Asagiri & Sango Harukawa

The battles between Kenji and Tecchou as well as Fukuchi and Fukuzawa (and their backstory!), Aya and Bram's attempts of escape, the Mersault Game (famous chapter 101)... I loved it ^^

The extra chapters of MDZS by Mo Xiang Tong Xiu

I read them all except for the incense burner one (I don't need... this, lol). I rather liked most of them, especially the investigative ones ^^

Half-Way There:

Aoharu x Machinegun by NAOE

I read up till the first round of the TGC, so just a few more volumes to go ^^

The Apothecary Diaries by Natsu Hyuuga, Nekokurage, Itsuki Nanao

I caught up with the first seven volumes. I love this manga so much! A historical slice-of-life/investigative series with two unhinged (in different ways) main characters :D

Just started:

Death Note and Spy x Family :)

Up-to-Date With:

The Snake and the Crane

Lore Olympus

Return of the Mad Demon

Holmes of Kyoto by Mai Mochizuki & Ichiha Akizuki (up to chapter 48) I'm in love with this series! A modern slice-of-life with art and antiques and some investigations ^^ I hope the manga goes on, if not, I've gotta invest myself into light novels.... :)

#july 2023

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elvesofnoldor · 3 years

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#i just finished watching the untamed and i spoke too soon. the show didnt peak at episode 13 #the show's first 13 episodes AND its last 13 episodes just happen to be its best episodes #i don't even have anything smart ass to say. episode 42-46 just hit me in the feels. im just sad. but like. in a good way #it's funny that i saw so many mdzs/the untamed posts on my dash in the last year or so but i didnt get spoiled at all #and im glad for it. it's good to see everything unfold without knowing what's gonna happen beforehand #i LOVE the last 10 episodes or so. that's all. but i think i might like the yi city arc in the 3rd season of mdzs better #but other than that (and the special effect). i prefer everything else in the untamed version of the story #mae overshares #when i first started watching i said jin ling was 'irrelevant little bitch'. ok i feel bad abt saying this abt him now lol #ok. he IS a brat. but like. he's just a kid. the kind of kid that got spoiled AND bullied growing up #the kind of kid that grew up privileged but also without parents. he's just a child. i was being a bit too harsh on him #IN MY DEFENCE THO. I ONLY STARTED WATCHING SO I DIDNT KNOW HOW RELEVANT HE WAS GOING TO BE PLOT-WISE ANYWAYS #the part in mdzs that got to me the most so far is the scene where lwj tried to get wwx to come back to cloud recesses with him #after wwx killed wen chao. and wwx thought lwj wanted to bring him back for judgement (bc of his necromancy antics)#and lwj quickly retorted saying '[this trip] is not for the purpose of punishment/judgement'#and i guess the note of desperation in his voice got to me #but in untamed the part in episode 42 where lwj insisted on standing by resurrected wwx's side top this moment ten-fold over #i didnt turn on the english subtitles when watching most of the episodes after episode 10 so im not sure the official translation #but im still thinking abt the moment where jing guangyao tried to convince everybody that wwx tricked lwj somehow and wwx affirmed the idea #in an attempt to save lwj's reputation and honour but lwj just stepped in and went 'not true. i knew he was wei ying all along'#‘不错！’ ‘非也。我早就知道他是魏婴’............bro...............#and his FACE when he said the line 'i knew he was wei ying all along' BRO...........#like the way lwj just chose to trust wwx and stand with him against all of the world........bro #esp considering he regret that he didnt do that when he had the chance the first time and he must have felt like #it was part of the reason why wwx ended up dying. and now he's back. lwj just didnt want to make that mistake again #and its like........wow.........head full many thoughts......#im gonna be thinking abt this bullshit for a while #also i just realize why the english title is called the untamed. it's literally the translation of the theme song's official title #which is roughly 'the unsullied' and untamed is just another translation of the same title #it literally wasnt that deep and it took 40 episodes or so to figure it out rip

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crossdressingdeath · 3 years

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"Boys will be boys" logic is interesting since WWX himself basically uses that exact excuse in the book when he tells LWJ not to take JC's homophobic rant/assault seriously in the ancestral hall bc that's just how JC is, as if WWX himself wasn't furious when JC targeted LWJ in that scene. A lot of WWX's famed unreliable narration is rationalizing the crazy shit JC does but sometimes people tend to take it at face value.

Yes, exactly! That is such a huge thing. WWX spends so much time telling himself (and through himself the audience) that oh, it can’t be helped when JC mistreats him, JC is just like that, it’s totally fine, he doesn’t mind, and we see how that viewpoint was encouraged and strengthened by the people around him, especially JYL (sorry Shijie but it’s true). Hell, you could argue that this particular aspect of his character was entirely her doing, given YZY just thinks he should be subordinate to JC in all things and JFM mostly ignores JC’s behaviour; it’s just JYL going for the “oh boys will be boys, you’re strong and always smiling, you can take it” angle.

...Actually, let’s go into that a bit more because it very much gets buried under the “best sister” shit; I am prepared to argue that JYL consistently taking JC’s side did serious damage to WWX. Like, she was the only Jiang who consistently showed him affection and support and he convinced himself that it was unconditional! But the “unconditional” aspect was an illusion entirely based on his ability to consistently and convincingly pretend that JC wasn’t hurting him. WWX isn’t stupid, I don’t doubt for a second that he knew JYL would take JC’s side if it came down to it. She always takes JC’s side from day one. Literally; she hears WWX say he’ll take the blame for JC chasing him out of Lotus Pier and getting WWX’s leg broken while all JC did was come out looking for WWX personally (instead of doing the smart and more helpful thing and getting adults to help) because he was scared he’d get in trouble and he got a little scrape because he was running through the woods like an idiot because, again, he was too scared of getting in trouble to GET ACTUAL HELP THAT WASN’T A CHILD and she’s like “Yeah, that sounds reasonable and fair and not like a really, really bad precedent to set with a kid whose safety relies on my family liking him”. ...There’s also an aspect of “Sure, it can’t hurt to let the kid my mother very clearly hates take responsibility for something that he could be punished for by someone with a motive to take everything possible as a wrongdoing on WWX’s part”, but to be fair at this point she doesn’t know YZY will whip WWX for literally anything she can even slightly suggest is any sort of wrongdoing on WWX’s part. And let’s not pretend WWX wasn’t punished for JC getting hurt; come on, it’s YZY, she punishes him for sunbathing.

This is a running thing going forward in their dynamic, too! JC does something horrible, JYL immediately starts in on the “Oh, boys will be boys, A-Cheng might get upset if you call him out on his shit” shtick if WWX shows the slightest trace of dissatisfaction with being treated like garbage, WWX smiles and forgives JC for whatever he did without question, there’s a period of calm, the cycle repeats. JYL very much teaches WWX that he cannot EVER show any unhappiness with JC’s threats and insults. If he ever shows so much as a shred of anger or sadness or generally being upset at the way JC mistreats him JYL takes JC’s side. At most she’ll tell JC that maybe he should back off a little while basically telling WWX to grin and bear it because JC might be slightly upset if anyone ever calls him out on being horrible to literally everyone. And don’t even get me started on the whole “Oh you’re always smiling” bullshit, talk about teaching a mistreated orphan that he has literally no right to look sad about anything ever. Like, let me put it this way: WWX doesn’t even feel he can go to JYL about JC TRYING TO KILL HIM. That’s a lot? It’s a lot? And it never really gets discussed in any way? WWX doesn’t feel like he can tell his supposed sister who supposedly loves him unconditionally that her brother tried to murder him like three times and when the third time comes up JYL takes JC’s side because JC’s arm got broken in the process of the staged fight where JC stabbed WWX in the gut and that’s fine and healthy apparently. Stan WQ, the actual best sister (god I love WQ).

Anyway, now that I’m done enraging the fandom with my tangent about how much JYL sucks as a sister to WWX... Yeah, WWX insists that JC’s attitude can’t be helped because JC’s just like that even when he very clearly doesn’t buy that? He’s obviously pissed when JC goes after LWJ to the point of genuinely going after JC for it... but when they get away from JC he goes into the “Oh, he can’t help it, don’t get mad at him”. And in this particular case part of it is him panicking because JC’s homophobic ranting (and LWJ’s clear anger at it) left him questioning his and LWJ’s feelings and the mutuality thereof, but it also... really does throw every other time he insists JC’s behaviour is fine into question. Like, we know he’s not buying his own line in this scene! He was furious at JC! He’s still furious and upset! But he feels the need to cover for JC. Even after he’s realized that JC’s behaviour wasn’t okay, he still feels like he has to protect him from anyone else getting angry at him. WWX knows JC’s behaviour isn’t okay and that it’s not fair that JC treats him the way he does and I’d argue (especially at this point in the story) that he deserves better than JC’s treatment... but he still insists that JC is just like that and it’s fine.

That throws every single time WWX smiles through JC’s mistreatment into question, I’d say; we know he’ll react this way even when he knows that JC’s behaviour isn’t okay, so who’s to say he ever isn’t aware that JC’s behaviour isn’t okay? In CQL XZ does an excellent job of showing that at least in that continuity he is extremely done with JC’s shit even from when they’re fifteen; the novel is as far as I remember a little less clear, but it’s still pretty obvious that he’s not enjoying the way JC treats him. He knows that the way JC treats him is hurtful and upsetting and sometimes even frightening (think of the times JC threatens him with dogs and he’s clearly scared, which is a whole other thing because either he’s so scared of dogs that even the threat terrifies him or he has zero doubt that JC for sure would set dogs on him, which is a big thing either way and also I’m still not over how CQL JYL laughs when JC threatens WWX with dogs even though WWX is clearly scared and she totally would’ve laughed if that happened in the novel too but showing it so blatantly and then never actually getting into how messed up it is is just unnecessary), but he feels like he has to smile through it and cover for JC, just like when they were nine.

Anyway yeah, for a fandom so obsessed with WWX being an unreliable narrator the MDZS/CQL fandom sure does miss a lot of times where WWX is actually being unreliable, huh.

#mdzs #grapehate #wei wuxian #lotus sister #...got a bit off-track there whoops #anyway the jiangs ALL suck and FUCK jyl for enabling jc's horrible behaviour #anon #asks

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annalacerda17 · 2 years

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I’m sorry for bothering you again but i was just thinking about JC in the donghua. I personally don’t really care about JC (but i do think people need to stop excusing his actions). When the donghua ended i saw a lot JC stans being angry at the ending, i don’t really know understand why but i would like your thoughts on that. Even though the donghua definitely has it’s problems, i do really like the way they did wangxian and their characterisation a lot more then with cql and that’s probably the most important to me.

It's not a bother!

I think that although it's not perfect, the donghua is still one of the better MDZS adaptations. It's much better than cql and I personally prefer it to the manhua just because I like the donghua's character designs better.

I think the donghua definitely understood the story they were adapting and it's characters.

When it comes to adaptions, I mostly look at wether the adaption was able to express the main themes and character arcs well. The donghua has its problems. I'm not fond of the way the donghua softened the Jiangs and their messed up portrayal of JFM and YZY's relationship and I don't like how they gave JC more scenes and generally tried to soften his character, especially in the first season (I'm not a fan of the first season, but it improved on the second season and I really liked the third season). I don't think this was a lack of understanding the story, but a deliberate choice because JC is (for some reason) a popular character. I'm still more forgiving towards the donghua than cql, because despite all that, the donghua managed to mostly stay within the boundary of the story's themes.

So, I liked the ending of the donghua.

JC stans won't be happy unless JC gets the VIP marry sue protagonist treatment. They were unhappy with the novel, and will be unhappy with any adaption that unless it turns JC into the MC and hands him everything he wants on silver platter.

About JC's ending in the donghua, here's what I think: JC just tried to whip WWX, who'd just saved his ass again (while JC had been trying to besiege and kill him again), then he found out he owed everything he is to WWX and Wen Qing, and responded with more violence towards an already hurt WWX, and JC stans still say JC was the real victim because LWJ knocked off his guan. How the hell does that make any sense? Are they really trying to sell the idea that JC's hairstyle is more important than others' lives? JC is ungrateful, spiteful, jealous and an all around poisonous person, he led a siege on WWX and the Wen Remnants he knew were innocent when he knew he owed Wen Qing and Wen Ning his life and when he saw his sister sacrifice her life to save WWX. He went on to spend 13 hunting down anyone who reminded him of WWX to torture and kill even when they turned out be innocent. He tried to kill WWX again after WWX's resurrection. All of that and he faced virtually no punishment. He can take a little humiliation, and should be thankful that's all he's getting.

Personally, I think his lack of external punishment works well with MDZS's themes about letting go of resentment. In a way, JC's punishment is there in his refusal to move on, in his inability to step out of self entitlement and victim mentality, in his refusal to overcome his shortcomings, in his self centerd worldview, all of which make him lonely.So far, we see that he already destroyed most of his ancestors' legacy and ideals, so I think the natural progression is for the Jiang sect to eventually fade away with JC's death or become part of the Jin sect under JL. JC hurts others, but he doesn't see that the one he's destroying is himself. That's what resentment does to ppl, and JC exemplifies that very well.

In MDZS, happiness is always a matter of choice: YZY, for example, got the husband she wanted, she had money, two children (a boy and a girl, even!), prestige, power as the leader of Lotus Pier, a loyal friend in Madam Jin, and basically all external things she could ask for, but was ultimately still unhappy her whole life because she chose to focus on the wrong things, and refused to put even a little effort into achieving the happiness she desired.

JC is exactly like that. He has everything, but is still unhappy. In a way, happiness is like a journey: others can tell you the way, but they can't walk your feet for you. WWX tries to help JC time and again, but JC refuses to take a single step, so there's nothing anyone can do.

Because of this, I'm not fond of JC going into seclusion in the donghua, because his inability to self reflect and refusal to change is so integral to his character. On the other hand, his seclusion might just be out of embarrassment, which would make more sense with his character. 🤔

#mdzs #mo dao zu shi #grandmaster of demonic cultivation #mdzs donghua

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its-miichan · 3 years

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TGCF criticisms

Spoilers and unpopular/critical opinions ahead! Beware! I tried to like this, I really did, but this novel really makes me frustrated. It clearly has so much potential, but so much of that potential was wasted on pandering romance and shallow caricatures of main characters. Overall 1.5-2 stars because it gets worse the more you think about it. CHARACTERS: 1. The main character, Xie Lian was wildly bland and boring. He is presented as the kindest, purest, most selfless person in the world, but really he was just a bland white lotus. With Xie Lian, his personality can be described in just a sentence or so, while the author's other two MC's (Wei Wuxian and Shen Qingqiu) are both charming, funny, and deep with their own motivations. Xie Lian just walks around in the story with no purpose and he says that he wants to help the common people, but he really hasn't done that! He's barely helped anyone at all, and those times he did help people are quickly followed by flirting with the ML and forgetting all about the people he was supposed to help. Honestly, in the past, Xie Lian was also the biggest jerk ever. He gave up his own friends and family's well being for his own sense of justice and was stubborn to a fault and refused to listen. What's worse is that none of these flaws are actually addressed, and the story just lets him roll with it and never actually calls him out on it. If you want to see all the reasons why he's a poorly written character, check out this reddit post: https://www. reddit. com/r/MXTX/comments/j2l9ye/why_xl_is_a_poorly_written_character_in_my_opinion/

2. The ML, Hua Cheng, is equally as bad. He is extremely shallow and such a static character, with his development in the present times being nonexistent and his development from the past to the present being wholly nonsensical. His personality is very cliche and his motivations and thoughts are left entirely up to the reader's imagination, which significantly reduces character depth. He could've been such a great character, a ghost king who rules over hell and is morally grey, but instead he is dumbed down to a Xie Lian fanboy. Everything about him not related to Xie Lian is thrown at us in a few paragraphs if at all, and what little motivation and thoughts about him we do get always fall flat. [Like apparently this guy saved him once, and he fell in love with him and became devoted to him for 800 years? Like people get saved all the time and we don't see them going 800 years and 3 deaths for a guy they've barely talked to] Also, he is wildly unlikable. Of course, this is purely subjective, but he is irritatingly smug and lords over literally everyone he meets. It doesn't help that he's an insufferable Mary Sue with an endless array of powers, intelligent as hell and knows literally everything, really good at painting, sculpting, woodworking, and on top of that the richest, most powerful, most handsome, and most charismatic man in the book. His biggest flaw is supposed to be his insecurity and inferiority complex, but that barely ever comes up and 90% of the time he is arrogant and smug. More information on why he's badly written here: https://www. reddit. com/r/MXTX/comments/iskkp5/why_hc_is_a_bad_character_in_my_opinion/

3. The side characters in my opinion are written far better, but obviously quite underdeveloped. They are all three dimensional and have their own thoughts, emotions, and feelings as well as a believable backstory, but so many of them are quickly offed to make way for the main couple, some of them not only not becoming better, but actually getting quite a whole lot worse. Qi Rong, who was supposed to be super strong demon that is one of the 4 great evils becomes a comedic relief gremlin who just shows up for some comedy and then leaves. Feng Xin and Mu Qing, the MC's childhood caretakers disappear for like 100 chapters after we're given their backstories and then once they reappear, they don't do anything either. Shi Qingxuan, who in my opinion is by far the best character in the book, has his arc left open with no ending at all, only to be forgotten about for 80+ chapters only to reappear completely the same with no character growth at all. All of this is because the main couple take up so much of the book, and the rest of the side characters and their character growth is sabotaged for the author's ego so that the main couple can look better and get more screen time.

4. I lost interest in the story pretty quickly due to the bland characters and their out of place romance and how unlikable they were. A lot of this novel was very surface level, and it's pretty on paper, but when you think about the characters a bit longer, the more bland and shallow they become.

PLOT: 1. The plot was... There was no plot. It was just a collection of monster of the day arcs that aimlessly meander about and then everything returns to the status quo once they return to Xie Lian's temple/home. Obviously books 4 and 5 were a lot more to my taste because the writing was a lot more concise and the pacing was less slow and pointless, as well as actually incorporating fantasy elements and shaking up the status quo. However, the other 3 books, especially books 1 and 2 had way too much fan service, pointless romance, and plot lines that don't go anywhere and don't contribute to the story.

2. The past plot line, or the flashbacks were pretty interesting, except for how b*tchy the MC was. Book 2 has a lot of important information and some action, but a lot of it was boring fluff that didn't really contribute to the story other than introducing the villain and showing how XL and HC met. The rest, we're literally told already and there's no new information. Book 4 was supposed to be suffering heavy, and I agree that the character development was alright, but it was too brooding and oppressive. In the end, I just stopped feeling bad for Xie Lian because of how bad the story was trying to make you feel for him. I was not invested in him, and although he was significantly more deep in this book than in the other 4, the bad logic is still there. [you wanna kill people but then someone gives you a bamboo hat and you're all sunshine and rainbows again?] The suffering is excessive in my opinion, and although it's supposed to provide contrast to the romance, it just feels done in poor taste. seriously, 20 chapters straight of suffering is not necessary, and the pacing and tone suffers because of this. The flashbacks really don't contribute too much to XL or HC's character development, but is just there to be angsty and cryp*rn.

3. The final battle was the most unbelievable thing I've ever read. All the gods got together and the first part seemed pretty epic as we got to see all the side characters finally showcase their powers.... Until the MC and ML show up. The MC and ML show up, and instantly the background extras—excuse me I mean side characters, go back into hibernation as the main couple show off how cool and powerful they are. And then we get to the final confrontation, which has our MC, ML, and MC's two friends face off against literally the most powerful being in the freaking universe. I thought it would be a tense fight scene with lots of close calls, but I was so disappointed. Instead the ML is so OP that he breaks the spells binding MC's powers, and MC becomes so overpowered and slams the big boss into the wall with the power of love while his two friends just stand there doing nothing.

4. A lot of what happens in the flashback is directly Xie Lian's fault, but the book never seems to register it? I won't go into detail on this point since it's already covered in the first Reddit thread, but basically because of XL's s*upidity and refusal to listen to anyone else, the people around him suffer.

WRITING: 1. The writing wasn't great. It was very choppy and as I said previously, very monotonous and monster-of-the-day. Yes there were great scenes which got to me, but most of it was really boring and descriptions and dialogue dragged on and on with no end, and with the bland MC, it wasn't even interesting such as the dialogue in MDZS was. Side arcs were introduced with no warning and ended with no warning, leaving the reader wondering "Why was that even there in the first place if it was just going to be forgotten about?"

2. The water demon/wind god arc. The opening and most of the middle of this arc was extremely good, the logic and mystery was written well, and Shi Qingxuan's (the wind god) antics were funny. But after the big reveal and the tense climax, the story just... stops. Like it's literally forgotten about. [The MC gets dragged out by his all powerful lover, they romance some more, and forget all about Shi Qingxuan who is literally left in the hands of the second or third most powerful demon ever who is also his mortal enemy]

3. The incessant flirting really got on my nerves. The tension and tone of the entire story got completely ruined because of the MC and ML flirting and the MC blushing and giggling while the ML teases him and everyone else is literally fighting for their lives. This felt very fan-service like, and it felt like the author stopped trying and just fed us dog food after an emotionally taxing arc so that she wouldn't have to close out the arc properly, completely destroying the tone. Speaking of the tone, the tone whiplash was just... wow. You're fed fluff and romance during or after a high tensity and highly emotional scene with no connection at all, and you're just supposed to accept it instead of wondering what's happening to the characters you actually care about.

4. Romance and side arcs quite disconnected from the story. Quite frankly, most of this book is just romance with the plot and characters put in second place because "lOOk hOw CuTe the COuPLe iS!" You could literally take out all the side arcs and the story would literally be no different. The romance overtakes the entire plot and becomes the main point of the story. With her other two books, the romance is like the icing on the cake. With this book, the icing overtakes the cake and becomes the cake.

5. Perhaps one of the biggest reasons I was uninterested through most of the book was due to the lack of tension and suspense. The flashbacks were better in the sense that Xie Lian was helpless and couldn't figure anything out, which was why he was just as likely to get hurt as anyone, making the stakes significantly higher. But in the present, with the existence of Hua Cheng, that tension is completely gone. This is because HC knows basically all there is to know, and what he doesn't know he can figure out in seconds. Additionally, he is super powerful to the point that anything that can harm XL can be one shot K.O'ed by him. At this point the conflict becomes trivial to the point where I'm just asking "why are we solving this mystery anyways when HC can just blast it into oblivion?"

6. The fact that HC does the bare minimum in arcs frustrates me. If you're going to include a character with powers that will basically deem any threat against them null, then actually use them at least! HC's apathy does not feel like a coherent part of his character, but an excuse for MXTX to drag out plot lines and make things unnecessarily long and winded. Additionally, his apathy is contradictory. On one hand, he is super overprotective of XL and wants to make sure he won't get hurt a single bit, but on the other hand, he has this advanced ideology of the 21st century that he believes XL is capable so won't constrain him as much. If anything, they should start out with HC as this overprotective follower and have a dysfunctional relationship, and end up with XL teaching HC that he is able to do things and doesn't mind doing them, and that HC can live a life outside of him as well. That would've introduced some narrative stakes and romantic tension, but no, MXTX just had to make these characters perfect in every way.

ROMANCE: 1. The logic is so flawed here. The reason that HC started loving XL is literally because Xie Lian saved him once as a child and therefore he will devote his entire life to XL, not caring about literally anything else. The reason that XL started loving HC is even more so. The thing is someone like say Shi Qingxuan has done every bit as much for XL as HC has, but we don't see XL fall in love with SQX, do we? HC literally listens to him talk and XL falls in love with him, and although it does make sense due to XL being lonely for 800 years, how low the bar is set really bothers me.

2. The constant blue-balling was annoying. At some point, the ignorant MC became annoying and self indulgent instead of cute, and having it be drawn out over nearly 200 chapters makes it even worse. The MC is supposed to be super intelligent, but he literally misses all of the super obvious hints the ML drops at him, which is so weird.

3. It felt like MXTX (the author) went overboard on the romance here. Like she tried way too hard to the point where it was obvious she wanted to make this "the most romantic CP ever". The aesthetics went so overboard with butterflies and flowers as romantic themes, thousands of lanterns, the red string of fate (which didn't even do anything in the actual story), poetry, etc.

4. The romance could almost be described as kind of creepy. Like the ML obsesses over the MC for 800 years, isolating himself from the world and not taking any side of the story besides MC's is supposed to be romantic, but it really isn't. The ML carves thousands of statues of the MC, which is sweet in a way, but also really, really creepy. To quote someone from NovelUpdates who put it 100x better than I could: " They don't feel like equal lovers, HC obviously worships XL to an unbelievably amazing degree while XL only knew he existed from only a while ago (Is this obsession? Stalker-ish? I know his stalker-ish tendencies are usually played for laughs, but realistically?) HC very very very rarely calls XL by his given name but with GeGe or CrownPrince, dude has a name you know. I know you feel lower than XL, but seriously man, the guy's your life partner. HC would destroy the world if XL said to. He'd probably try to talk to XL first, confirm things, but if at the end XL really does want it, HC would do it. He lives for XL, he has no other reason to do something aside for XL. No reason to say NO for himself. They're not equals in which one wanna do something bad, the other would stop him because they have their own convictions. You can't tell me one only lives for one person's sake, will do anything for that guy, and has no attachments in the world aside from that guy, is a healthy person. It may seem romantic, but when you actually think about it, it becomes uncomfortable."

5. The romance was really cheesy. There were some powerful moments, but it was mostly flirting and "he fell on top of me" or "he needs mouth to mouth". Most of it was just the ML flirting with the MC, which you may like if you like this kind of stuff, but I really didn't enjoy it. Overall, I was desperate to love this novel, but I couldn't because of the shallow characters, unlikable main pair, and the constant abandonment of great plot lines in favor of the shallow romance. It felt like MXTX was constantly trying to one-up MDZS in angst, drama, and romance, but at the same time it felt like she didn't know what to do with the characters and world, and therefore fed us fan service and took the easy way out. This review is purely subjective, and if you want to read this go ahead, but I'll be seeing myself out.

#tgcf criticism #tianguancifu #tgcf #mxtx critical #xie lan #hua cheng #ok but this kinda sucks

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spockandawe · 3 years

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Hi....If you don't mind me asking, who are your favorite MXTX characters (top 5 from each novel)? And why? I'm sorry if you've answered this question before.

It’s absolutely no problem at all!! I don’t think I’ve been asked this before, but hey, I also have zero object permanence, so it keeps things fresh and new. And it’s interesting to see how my answers change over time! Lemme see, I think I’m going to go in reverse order, because I feel like then I’ll be doing the worst agonizing up front.

TGCF

Fifth favorite: YIN. YU. I know that he’s a minor character and him even making it onto the list is pretty solid performance, but I do feel guilty that he isn’t higher than this. He came out of nowhere in my first reading and punched me in the stomach with emotions. I find his sections so hard to read, and I was DEVASTATED when he died and BEYOND stoked to find out he was still alive in the extras. His story hurts so much! I am weak against characters who have relatively modest goals and still see them snatched away (see also: my next entry) and have to struggle on. I wish wish wish I had a way to see more of how he made his peace with things after being thrown out of heaven, and the nature of the (distant) relationship with Hua Cheng and what happens with Quan Yizhen now that he died in his arms, and still came back anyways, my god!

Fourth favorite: He Xuannnnnn. I have a hard time articulating particulars, but. I love him a lot. I love a character with a grudge, with a deep, painful grudge, where the grudge is hurting him almost as much as it’s hurting the people around him, and setting the grudge aside would also hurt, and then what has any of this been for-- I've used this metaphor for other characters, but I don’t care if I’m overusing it, because I love it. He feels like a character caught in a thorn bush, where simply being there... hurts, but trying to escape or move in any ways is going to hurt worse, and there’s no path forward that doesn’t involve pain. And like... I don’t love the way he hurt Shi Qingxuan (who didn’t quite make this list adfasgdafsd I’M SORRY) but I wouldn’t have liked to see him swallow back down all that pain and set aside everything that happened to his family and fiancee either! I’m always, always soft for characters who have no good path forward and who grit their teeth and set out anyways.

Third favorite: MU QING!!!!!!!!!! I have done... extensive screaming about him. And I love him veryvery much. I can already tell that this list is going to have a lot of mean boys on it, and like... no regrets. Especially since this is one of my FAVORITE flavors, an unapologetic mean boy who is rarely (but sometimes!) soft for the people around him, and who regularly tries to do decently by people, but who consistently gets shat upon and misunderstood and accused of acting in bad faith. I screamed when he and Xie Lian finally got to talk their friendship out in the book. I also screamed when I realized how immediately after Xie Lian’s return he started looking out for him again, and how sincerely, despite his horrible attitude about it. I still want to write more fic for him so badly. I love him so much.

Second favorite: Xie Lian! What a good boy! The best boy! He’s so sweet and gentle, but also the best fightboy this world has ever seen, and also so gently snarky with the people he loves! I just... really love me some traumatized characters who have trouble recognizing that they can be Loved, and I’m not going to write this whole essay right now, but I think in some ways, he’s the most... passive about his romance, out of all the leads? Shen Qingqiu is aggressively oblivious, but Xie Lian kind of gently shrugs off the idea that he might be Hua Cheng’s special someone, until he finally gets hit with the cluestick. I generally shy away from the idea of a character “earning” love, but he’s maybe the mxtx character who moves me most with ‘you deserve to be loved’

Most favorite: Hua Cheng. HUA CHENG. Oh my god, gotta love this boy. Gotta love this devotion. I love a mean boy who is soft for one person, and he EMBODIES it. I mean, I love Shen Jiu, but he barely manages to do the soft thing at all, while Hua Cheng is over here like ‘if I could only be the stone beneath your feet--’ It’s hard to talk about him separately from Xie Lian, because they’re a unit in my head more than just about any other characters on this list are. I don’t want to get this list to get out of control, so I’m not going to scream for too long, but... I could just watch him go forever. I want to write him forever, and that’s a huge aspect of what draws me to some characters.

MDZS

Oh god, I think I lied, I think this book is going to be hardest. Making these choices is AGONIZING.

Fifth favorite: .....Lan Wangji. Oh god, I feel bad about how low he is. But this story is just packed SO full of wonderful characters, and I’m already consumed with guilt over all the characters who aren’t going to make it. I don’t love them less! But my love for characters in this particular story is very evenly distributed. And I think that Wang Yibo’s acting is possibly scoring points with me that the book might not have earned all by itself. Microexpressions and subtle body language add SO MUCH to a character with such flat affect, and I would be drawn to such a closed-off character anyways, but it really helps. And I love, like... the combined subtlety and intensity of his relationships. It’s not that subtle once you know what to look for, and the brother/sworn brother network makes for varying degrees of how much other characters understand of the things he chooses not to explicitly express, and it gives a really interesting character to the way he interacts with the people around him. Also, love me a man with intense separation anxiety.

Fourth favorite: Jiang Yanli? I think it has to be Jiang Yanli, but these rankings are hard. So. I just talked about how much I enjoy the flat affect and closed off nature of Lan Wangji? Well, guess what, I also love it when m’girl is just very GENUINELY AND OPENLY an absolute sweetheart of a person, and I love the contrast between her genuinely kind nature and the uncomfortable pressure that her family’s dynamics put on her to start parenting at a very young age. It’s not necessarily a happy situation, but she adores her brothers so much and they adore her so much! And it’s... a very understated element of the story, but after her parents died, her baby brothers went off to war, and one wreaked havoc as a straightforward commander and one of them disappeared for months and returned as a creepy-ass zombie puppeteer. And she STILL dotes on them like before, despite knowing what they’re capable of. Like, yes, Wei Wuxian just raised an army of corpses and forced a man to eat himself, but I shall still boop him on the nose and feed him Soup. How can I not adore energy like that?

Third favorite: Wei Wuxian, I think. I do adore him a lot. He gives me some of the same vibes that make me ache most with Xie Lian, where he is trying his best, and is struggling to hold on in the face of lots of suffering, and I find it really interesting that when the suffering peaked, Xie Lian was forced go on because he couldn’t die, while Wei Wuxian... expired. That line about ‘he thought that no matter how large the world was, there was still no place for him’ always sticks with me, and hurts me deeply. Xie Lian had most of his personal attachments stripped away, and was left to wander on his own, while Wei Wuxian still had a number of strong connections left, but abruptly exited life. And that informs their respective trauma so interestingly! The way Wei Wuxian bounces between high energy chaos and drained exhaustion is really fascinating to me, and was the thread that held me attached to the book through a very confusing beginning. And I’m still very drawn to how intensely he loves, whether it’s Xiao Zhan’s fantastic acting, or it’s him busting out with how much he wants Lan Wangji in the middle of the Guanyin Temple scene. He’s a fantastic character, honestly, I don’t think such a convoluted book would have held together very well without a protagonist this strong.

Second favorite: Xue Yang :X Look, he’s a good boy and I love him. Who among us hasn’t done a few mass murders that we are completely unrepentant about, but that we would really like to keep hidden from our current boyfriend, actually? Anyways, as always, love me an angry boy who makes terrible decisions for understandable reasons. And I do love a character who is consumed by agonized ragrets (see my next entry), but I DO also love me a character who has no regrets at all and doesn’t even have much interest in trying to justify himself to anyone else around him. Just look at that confidence! Look at him go!!

Most favorite: Jiang... Cheng....... I knew he and Xue Yang were going to be at the top, but those were the only parts of this list that were easy. I mean. Love a self-sabotaging angryboy who is also super super sad and keeps hurting himself in his own confusion. And while I love the romantic thread in all of the mxtx books, the agonized family thread in mdzs is one of my favorite parts, and something that I don’t really see echoed in any of the other stories. I need ten million jc+wwx reconciliations, at LEAST. He’s so sad! And so angry! And I want to see him becoming less of that thing, and for Jin Ling and Wei Wuxian to demonstrate very firmly how much they love him, because they do. I am invested in his happiness in a way that goes far and beyond any of the other non-main characters, haha

SVSSS

Fifth favorite: Tianlang-jun. I think? Oh god, but moshang. THIS IS REALLY HARD, I HATE THIS ;-; But especially since writing my fic, Tianlang-jun has really won me over. And like, he already hurt me good in the novel, just thinking about how he was an innocent young guy, just! Trying to have a girlfriend! And instead got trapped in sensory deprivation, body-rotting-hell for twenty years, when he didn’t do anything wrong!!! He suffered, so much! And I live for his intensely strained relationship with Luo Binghe, because it’s! Perfectly understandable and painful, from both of their perspectives! And he wants to hate humans so badly, but in the end, when he’s told that Su Xiyan never betrayed him, he starts helplessly asking the people around him, ‘really? is it really true?’ and then in the end he loses the only family member he has left who cares about him, and it’s just! Everything is terrible! I have a su xiyan au brewing in my head because I can’t stand it! Someone just give this man a loving partner!!!

Fourth favorite: Shen Qingqiu. But... moshang??? Goddammit. Anyways, this dumbass. I find him so endearing, in his dumbassery. I sometimes get a bit frustrated with Wei Wuxian for being oblivious, and Shen Qingqiu is just asking for me to react the same way, but I... don’t, for the most part? Because he thinks he has good information, and he’s slow to react to a changing playing field, and I still haven’t read another transmigration novel that strikes the same balance of hypercompetence and intense incompetence :ppp It’s a funny book, and he’s a funny character! And I really vibe with him, in most parts of the story, which covers a pretty darn wide emotional spectrum. Plus, the running internal commentary is choice.

Third favorite: Liu Qingge. Look, I’m a woman of simple needs, and sometimes I just need a high-quality fightboy who clearly cares deeply and is absolute garbage at expressing his emotions. I can’t articulate it much better than that. I absolutely howl at the succubus extra, when Shen Qingqiu is talking to Madam Meiyin about his future partner, and Liu Qingge is like ‘oh my god, sHE IS CLEARLY DESCRIBING ME’ and Shen Qingqiu is like ‘haha, liu-shidi, i thought you thought this was stuupidddddddd’. They’re both so dumb. I love them so much. But stupidity plus war god fighting energy has a narrow lead over stupidity and internal commentary track.

Second favorite: SHEN JIU. GOD. I’m still arguing with myself over whether he should go first, but Luo Binghe hurts me consistently through the whole entire story, so I think he wins. Shen Jiu just stabs me in the heart at strategic moments. This is it. My ideal mean boy who is soft for one (1) person, and who BOTH does unconscionable things for terrible reasons (someone just. give him a pile of girls to teach, it will be much more pleasant for everyone involved), and who ALSO gets blamed for things he didn’t do even when he tries to act in good faith. It is the best of all painful worlds. And even at the end, when he has a powerful person who wants desperately to protect him, he still tries his hardest to shove that person away, to keep him safe. I’ve got like four aus where he gets to live. I’m so invested in this character, I love him so much.

Most favorite: Luo Binghe. He was.... made for me............ Like, the overwhelming amounts of childhood angst were baked in by Shang Qinghua, but the in-story pain and suffering is PRECISELY my jam. I love a character with separation anxiety! I love a character with massive anxieties over being unwanted! Over nobody ever, EVER just choosing him! I love a character struggling with the idea that the person he loves most in the world thinks that he’s intrinsically Disgusting! I love the kind of stubborn determination that leads him to preserve a corpse for five years, desperately hoping for a way to revive it, constantly cooking fresh food, in case, in case he someday wakes up. The way Hua Cheng loves is overpowering, but he’s had time to like... learn to be mellow when he needs to be. Luo Binghe doesn’t have a chill bone in his body, and if he’s acting chill, it’s probably because he’s done some mental math and decided that being more clingy right now will probably get him pushed away harder. I love the combination of manipulative tendencies and a very, very genuine fear of rejection and being unwanted. There is nothing I don’t love about Luo Binghe, including his worst decisions. I love him so so much.

#spock replies #long post/#svsss #mdzs #tgcf #thanad-zid

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xiyao-feels · 3 years

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So, this started off as a shipping bingo for MDZS nie//lan; I've added the bingo meme above so that you know what you're getting into. What it evolved into, however, is several thousand words of close reading of the NMJ+LXC relationship, getting some into the 3//zun dynamics and comparing it with LXC and JGY's relationship to help demonstrate my point. If that sounds interesting to you, read away! Fair warning: as you might gather from the bingo above I am not very gentle, not only on the idea of a romantic relationship but also on their friendship.

Originally, I imagined I'd be saying something like, while of course they were very good friends and LXC grieves for NMJ, there's no evidence of romantic interest. But I wanted to look over the scenes first, to get a handle on them properly and to pick out some quotes; and what I found, when I looked at it closely, startled me—I couldn't believe how little there actually was.

My methodology for this review, by the way: I searched the entire text for every variation on their name I could think of, and then read over the chapter for chapters they were both mentioned in. I also reviewed chapters where only one of them is mentioned (that's how I caught the reference in ch 16, where NMJ is only referred to as NHS' brother). I might have missed something, or I might have read it and not registered it, etc etc. I definitely don't have JGY's memory XP But I've done my best to be thorough.

Also, a heads up: while I've done a little bit of addressing NMJ's emotions, this is mostly focused on what LXC feels, because otherwise this would be even more ridiculously long and because that's where my interest lies.

I'll state my conclusions up front, in case you just want to know what I think and not have to wade through [mumble] thousand words to get there. But it's far enough off from even the standard non-shippy take on their relationship that I really did think it was worth walking through the evidence.

It seems to me that while NMJ and LXC were to some extent close before the war, they grew apart during the war and very much so afterwards. There are a few moments that suggest NMJ might feel unusually tender towards LXC, there is nothing similar on LXC's part, and frankly their post-Sunshot interactions that we see suggest that—while LXC certainly cares about him—he does not at all feel close to him.

Moreover, his personal grief for NMJ's death, and whatever personal betrayal he may feel about JGY killing his, LXC's, friend, are not the drivers of his emotional difficulties with respect to JGY.

Okay, now the evidence. This has been divided up into two parts, NMJ alive and NMJ dead.

Pt I: NMJ alive

LXC and NMJ were friends before Sunshot; while we don't have a lot of evidence to guess how close they were, we can certainly see signs of long familiarity with each other in their later interactions, and it's worth noting that we don't see either of them having other friends beyond, in LXC's case, JGY.*

*NMJ got along with his subordinate MY very well, but except for one incident it was purely in the context of a superior/subordinate relationship, and he does not seem to have been interested in MY as a person, so I'm not classing them as friends.

Nevertheless, during Sunshot, we can see LXC begin to grow apart from him, and in their post-Sunshot interactions they start not very close and end up quite distant. By the time if NMJ's death, it's clear that while LXC cares about him, he is not emotionally close to him at all.

A brief discussion of NMJ's feelings, before I spend most of the rest of the post focusing on LXC's. As I mentioned above, LXC seems to be NMJ's only friend, and he does react to him in ways he doesn't really seem to anyone else. In the teacups scene, for example, we're told that "while Nie MingJue had never been one for humor," nevertheless "in front of Lan XiChen, his expression eased." Later, towards the end of the stairs incident, LXC is able to dissuade him from immediately pursuing JGY's death, which I believe is as much as we see anyone ever do with NMJ's anger. Finally, in ch 46, when LXC and LWJ are playing music to deal with NMJ's headless corpse, WWX thinks that NMJ might particularly be responding to LXC playing Liebing: "Wei WuXian didn’t know if it was only his imagination, but as soon as the soft, serene tone of the xiao appeared, the corpse’s movement paused. For a moment, he seemed to have stood still and listened, then turned around, as though he wanted to see who was the one playing the music."

If you wanted to say that NMJ has romantic or quasi-romantic feelings about LXC, then I don't think that would be an unreasonable extrapolation from the text, although I also don't think it's a necessary one; friendship and minor romantic feelings are I think pretty much equally fair readings.

Even so, LXC is not his priority; rather, he prioritizes NHS and (probably not unrelatedly) JGY's moral rectitude. In Ch 48, the friendly 3zun conversation only happens because NMJ was seeking LXC out to bring him NHS' saber, which he'd left behind, and when he qi deviates it's NHS and not LXC who manages to bring him some calm just before he dies, and whose features he can recognize (ch 50). At the Phoenix Mountain Hunt (ch 69-70), we see no sign that either he or LXC sought each other out, and on those occasions we do see NMJ initiate discussion with LXC it's usually about JGY's moral rectitude (ch 73, his sarcastic remark about JGY's hard work after the conference about WWX; ch 49, his interjection during the guqin scene; ch 49, the beginning of the stairs incident).

And what about what LXC feels? Let's take a close look at the progression of their relationship.

In chapter 16, when NHS is studying at Cloud Recesses, we see LXC run into him and convey NMJ's query into his studies, having apparently recently returned from Qinghe. While he doesn't say what he was doing there, it seems reasonable to infer that he was either visiting NMJ or at least visited him while he was there. (ETA: NHS also hopes that LXC will put in some good words for him to NMJ, which also suggests that he expects they'll be in contact.) This establishes a baseline of closeness from before the war, however much they drift apart during and after. However, we never see any of their interactions before the war, or anything else about their relationship; this is all we get.

The high point of the NMJ and LXC interactions that we see on page happen during Sunshot, where we see them have three conversations (all in ch 48). High point, however, is a relative phrase. In order, there's the teacups scene; there's their conversation (including MY) after NMJ agrees to release MY from his service, with a recommendation letter no less; and there's their conversation where NMJ recounts what happened with MY in Langya.

Let's start with the teacups scene. NMJ and LXC do talk, but it's part of a group conversation with other cultivators—at least three and as many as six of whom we see interject,* one of whom is another sect leader—and it seems mostly about practical or immediate matters. The exchange on the page isn't long and "Soon afterward, Lan XiChen and the rest stood up" and are led to their resting areas by MY. Moreover, interestingly, it's NMJ who asks all the questions; LXC answers him, but doesn't ask him questions in turn, or comment on his situation.

*there are two separate occasions where there cultivators per chime in

(Note also that the focus of the conversation suggests that NMJ and LXC aren't communicating extensively through letters or anything, as does LXC not knowing MY is NMJ's deputy. I don't think this is hugely significant, given that there's a war on and presumably they don't want information leaking everywhere and LXC doesn't seem to have a fixed address, but it does seem worth noting—as does the implication, perhaps more significant, that LXC only stops at Hejian when he's escorting other cultivators: "Everytime Lan XiChen passed Hejian as he was escorting other cultivators, he would rest shortly[.]")

NMJ and LXC's conversation in the teacups scene stands in really stark contrast to the conversation between LXC and MY that NMJ is about to overhear. That conversation is very much private; it's in LXC's private resting area, and MY is sitting in the presence of Zewu-Jun. The conversation is sort of about the war, but really only as it relates to MY's dream of "earn[ing] a proper place in the LanlingJin Sect" and "receiv[ing] the approval of [his] father." The very first thing we hear LXC say is a comment on MY's situation ("What a coincidence. You joined MingJue-xiong’s force and became his deputy")! He is of course going to go on to raise the possibility of MY going to Langya (to serve his father), and independently volunteer to talk to NMJ if NMJ isn't willing to let MY go. And even after NMJ joins them, some things are kept private between LXC and MY; when he asks them how they know each other, LXC refuses to answer, and then when he asks MY to answer as LXC will not, MY also refuses him, since LXC doesn't want it spoken.

The two conversations are simply very different, in a way that suggests a strong contrast between LXC's feelings for and interest in NMJ and LXC's feelings for and interest in MY. It's also worth noting, as I mentioned above, that it seems that NMJ sought LXC out because he was bringing LXC NHS' sabre, so LXC can bring it on to NHS.

Now, let's look at the conversation the three of them have after NMJ volunteers to give MY a letter of recommendation and send him to serve his father in Langya. This conversation is, I think, the high point of the interactions they have that we actually see. LXC expresses a positive evaluation of NMJ: "Look, I told you that MingJue-xiong would respect your decision." He smiles at NHS' sabre, and responds directly to NMJ. And then of course there's this famous paragraph:

The three chatted back and forth, at times serious, yet at times light. The conversation was much more relaxed than when they had been in the living room. Listening to their chatter, Wei WuXian often wanted to get a word in as well, yet he was unable to do so.

That said...well. Again, there's nothing about anything here that suggests romance, and if you look at the reasons I give for it being the high point, that's not actually very high. As to the paragraph—again, I do think they're friends! But I think it's also noteworthy that the easiest conversation we see/hear about them having is one that is early in the war,* and where MY is also present, and one where NMJ has just done something good for MY.

*MY is noted as having joined the Nie forces "right after" Sunshot begins, and to have been promoted to NMJ's deputy after not many interactions; LXC also seems surprised at least by MY being NMJ's deputy, which suggests that he hasn't stopped there before while this was the case, and he comes by in the paragraph immediately after MY is promoted. Finally, after MY vanishes after his confrontation with NMJ in Langya, we're told that "during the next few years" no traces could be found of him. All taken together, this suggests to me that MY was NMJ's deputy for 1-2 months early in the war, and the conversation of course takes place at the very end of that period

(As ever, I recommend confusion-and-more's close reading of the second scene, here.)

The next interaction that's mentioned in the text is after MY tricks and immobilizes NMJ and flees, when NMJ describes what happened with him to LXC. I think it's worth noting exactly how the exchange is introduced:

Even when Lan XiChen had the time to assist Langya, a few days later, his anger hadn’t died down one bit. As soon as he came, Lan XiChen laughed, “MingJue-xiong, what a temper you seem to be in. Where is Meng Yao? Why does he not come and douse your flames?”

"As soon as he came," note! It seems to be literally the first thing LXC says. And while it is a comment on NMJ's state, its primary function seems to be as a lead-in to asking about the state/whereabouts of MY. Their exchange as the text shows us is /entirely/ about MY, and he's clearly the focus of LXC's interest. We also have this from LXC, which I think is interesting as it shows the contrast between his morality and NMJ's:

"Judging from his words, the person whom he killed had definitely done wrong. However, he should not have taken his life either. We are in harsh times, so it is quite difficult to determine who was at fault."

Their next interaction is in chapter 49, LXC defending MY from NMJ post Sun Palace—and I don't just mean verbally, he's defending against Baxia with an unsheathed Shuoyue through this whole conversation. At this point, he still has some faith in NMJ's ability to act rationally towards MY, as he asks MY if MY hadn't told NMJ about his being the spy, and NMJ displays familiarity with LXC, knowing that he rarely interrupted people. I'll note that unlike in CQL, LXC does not seem particularly angry at this point—MDZS LXC is almost never angry, including at multiple points where CQL LXC /is/—but overall it's hardly an example of particular closeness, and we see that LXC's morality continues to differ from NMJ's: "MingJue-xiong," he says of MY, "he was undercover in Qishan, and sometimes there would be some things that… could not have been helped."

Later in the chapter, just before the Flower Banquet, it's mentioned (possibly as inference from WWX) that LXC brought up the sworn brotherhood to NMJ, "having always hoped that the two [NMJ and JGY] would reconcile." Obviously we can infer things about their closeness from the fact that LXC does in fact swear brotherhood with NMJ, but we have no direct textual statement as to why he wanted to swear /himself/ to NMJ, be that personal or political or both.

Next comes the Flower Banquet. NMJ seeks JGY out, first, for his usual concerns with JGY's moral rectitude. Shortly after, LWJ and LXC come over; shortly after that, JC and WWX come over, though they soon move on. There are two things I want to note here. First, it's the only time we see LXC seek NMJ out (and one of only two times we see one of them seek the other out—the other will be in ch 73, after the conference about WWX, when NMJ comes over to him and JGY talking). Second, this is the only time we see LXC respond to NMJ verbally post-Sunshot in a way that isn't about defending someone, either JGY (the usual case) or WQ (at the conference in ch 73)—although it is to some degree a defense of WWX, and it's not quite directly in reply to NMJ, as NMJ and LWJ have a brief exchange on the subject first. These positive signs will not occur again, and I think it's significant that this is the earliest post-Sunshot scene we see.

The next scene for this analysis (chronologically speaking; it's in an entirely different chapter) is the Phoenix Mountain Hunt. Although we see NMJ and LXC arrive to the hunt in ch 69, NMJ arrives after the Twin Jades have started slowly riding into the distance and we don't actually see them interact at all; nor do we see them together in ch 70, the rest of the hunt. Moreover, there doesn't really seem to be any suggestion that they /did/ interact. When JGY says he's not sure if he'll be able to expand the hunting ground in two hours, LXC asks him why, instead of saying something like "oh right da-ge was doing all that hunting too." Moreover, when JGY answers him ("not only did Young Master Wei keep a third of the prey to himself, our eldest brother has eliminated over half of the fays and the monsters as well"), LXC's response doesn't indicate that he saw NMJ earlier, or knew what he was doing, though it does suggest a general familiarity with Nie Mingjue's character: 'Hearing this, Lan XiChen laughed, “That is how Brother is like, after all.”'

Now, this hardly rules out the idea that they had any interaction, but I think it at least suggests they didn't have any significant interaction, or any interaction after the hunt began. This is in contrast (again!) to his relationship with JGY—he was with him earlier for who knows how long, as they arrive on the scene together, and after this is going to go help expand the hunting grounds. They do have LWJ with them for this last, but he's helping them at LXC's request, and the framing of that request is very—well: "WangJi, should we leave, or would you like to help as well?" So LWJ can come help them, but if he doesn't want to, LXC is simply going to go off with JGY again.

If the Flower Banquet was the high point of their actual interactions on the page, post-Sunshot, then this is I think the most purely emotionally positive we see LXC feel about NMJ post-Sunshot. Significantly, it's based on an apparently older familiarity, and it's when they don't seem to have interacted recently and NMJ isn't even on the page.

The next scene they're in together, again chronologically, is in chapter 73. They're seated together in the first row, but that's explicitly because of their status, and they're grouped with LWJ and JC: "In the front row sat sect leaders and famed cultivators like Nie MingJue, Jiang Cheng, Lan XiChen, and Lan WangJi." During the conference, they have a brief conflict about WQ's culpability, which LXC leaves off explicitly because he's familiar with NMJ's hatred for the Wen. After the conference, we're told "the Venerated Trio gathered," but what this looks like in practice is LXC and JGY talking together and then NMJ coming over. LXC observed that JGY has worked hard, JGY is amused by the destruction JC wrought on his table, and then NMJ interrupts with a negative comment about JGY*: "All clever talk—hard work indeed." LXC smiles but doesn't reply. JGY tries to change the subject by asking LXC where LWJ is, and LXC gestures to the front, where LWJ and Mianmian are finishing up their conversation. NMJ compliments Mianmian, and JGY agrees. That's the end of the scene. I noted for the Flower Banquet that that scene unusually involves LXC replying verbally to NMJ in a way that isn't /just/ about defending someone; here, LXC does not speak a single word after NMJ joins them.

*In the interests of not being unfair I will note that NMJ did observe JGY lie; this doesn't really matter to the NMJ-LXC stuff except that it's a lie that LXC would also have noticed, as it involved contradicting LWJ.

NMJ and LXC are once again in the same scene in ch 78, for the swearing ceremony, and even speak one after the other. However, they don't seem to interact in any way, and their speech seems to be an important sect leader thing; we're told of their responses to JGS' toast, and then JC is explicitly contrasted in not speaking:

Nie MingJue, “May their souls live on.”

Lan XiChen, “Rest in peace.”

Jiang Cheng, however, still had on a darkened expression. He didn’t say anything even after he poured the wine.

Now we're back in the Empathy chapters, after a not insignificant gap: the next scene is the guqin scene, in chapter 49. Although LXC is playing guqin in the Unclean Realm, and is going to offer to teach JGY the Song of Clarity which he can use on NMJ, LXC and NMJ barely interact at all—they only have one very brief exchange, where NMJ objects to LXC teaching JGY the SoC (because it's leaking Lan techniques), LXC defends his decision, and NMJ realizes he's not going to change his mind so he doesn't say anything. Again, in contrast, LXC is very focused on JGY, asking him questions about his background, complimenting his playing, and independently offering to help him improve his guqin and even teach him an "exclusive teaching" of the Lan! The contrast is very noticeable.

A little after this, it's revealed that LXC left a guqin at the UR, apparently for JGY to use to play the SoC to NMJ. This is ostensibly because he is busy with the rebuilding of CR, although WWX speculates that this is just an excuse and that he "simply wanted to give Nie MingJue and Jin GuangYao a chance to ease their tension."

In chapter 30, it's revealed that at a Discussion Conference in the past, NMJ (who we are told otherwise would not have shown up, note, although it would have been an opportunity to see LXC) confronts the Jin about their refusal to sentence XY to death. He draws his sabre with the intent of killing XY, and gives JGY "a harsh scolding," causing JGY to "hid[e] behind Lan XiChen, not daring to say anything else." It seems likely that LXC defends JGY and/or helps to calm NMJ down, although nevertheless the Jin Sect has to (temporarily) give in on the matter of XY's death sentence; nothing about any further interaction they may have is noted.

Their next interaction is at the stairs incident, back in chapter 49. NMJ charges in on LXC and JGY, who are discussing the watchtower plans together, and tells LXC to stay there and JGY to come out with him. LXC's "face disclose[s] his worry," but JGY stops him and follows NMJ out. Some time later, LXC shows up at the conflict, coming to see what's happening, "concerned after having waited for long." He manages to calm NMJ down and prevent him from further trying to kill JGY, by talking about the work JGY has put in with the Song of Clarity, pointing out that he really is in a terrible situation, and urging NMJ to give him more time. Nothing he says particularly suggests that he feels close to NMJ; if anything, he seems kind of in denial about just how much NMJ is set against JGY.

Finally, there is their last interaction, just before NMJ's death. LXC is defending—well, not so much NMJ as the idea that NMJ hasn't rejected JGY completely, to JGY. His arguments are as follows: NMJ chose to become sworn brothers with JGY, which means he approves of JGY; when NMJ included in the oath stuff about "face a thousand accusing fingers, be torn from limb to limb," and so forth, he /also/ included "if one were to think otherwise," and since JGY doesn't think otherwise, he doesn't need to worry about it too much; that NMJ has always cherished JGY's talent and hoped he would choose the right path; and finally, that he's really really troubled by the saber spirit, that "[h]is anger was simply too great for him to have thought before speaking," and that JGY must not provoke him again (presumably by talking back, as he did at the stairs). As shining defenses of character go, this... isn't one. Again, he seems like he's kind of in denial about how much NMJ is set against JGY—notably, he didn't see all of the stairs incident, certainly not the part before JGY talked back—but it also doesn't exactly contain a strong positive assessment of NMJ. Forget his defense of JGY to Wangxian: this doesn't even compare to his confidence in NMJ in the conversation NMJ overhears and then joins at the Hejian front.

I realize all this is a lot, so to sum up their post-Sunshot interactions: we only see LXC seek out NMJ once, early post-Sunshot, and that's at a party. The fondest LXC seems of NMJ is one line during the Phoenix Mountain Hunt, when NMJ isn't even on-page. We do not see them spend any time privately together when JGY is not also there, and every time they interact publically JGY is also present at the party or gathering. When we do see them interact, the only time LXC responds verbally directly to NMJ is in defense of someone; if we include his indirect defense of WWX at the Flower Banquet, then that becomes 'the only time we see LXC respond verbally to NMJ at all.'

This is not of course to say that they don't have interactions we don't see. Given the time gaps, they must! But there's nothing about the interactions we *do* see to suggest that the ones we don't are in any way actually emotionally close, certainly not on LXC's part. Again, a contrast with his interactions with JGY is instructive; as with NMJ, we certainly don't see all of their interactions, but what we do see signals their closeness, mutual respect, and tendency to spend time together.

PT II: NMJ dead

Okay, you say, but wait! What about the depth of his renewed grief after he finds NMJ's body!! What about his deep personal betrayal about JGY killing his close friend!!!

Yes, I say, wild-eyed, having tried to find anything in the text for just that. what /about/ all that.

My problem is, how do I prove a negative? In the chapters with NMJ alive, LXC's presence and his interactions with NMJ are short enough that I could reasonably if lengthily discuss and summarize; that's just not going to work here (there are twelve and a half temple chapters!), not least because some of it is a matter of context or interpretation. So I'm doing two things. First, where we do see him actively upset, I'm going to show you what he seems upset about, and second, I'm going to point out places where we might expect him to react if he's feeling a deep personal grief about NMJ specifically, and instead he does not, or reacts differently.

Let's start with chapter 46, where LXC sees NMJ's moving corpse for the first time. I've seen the idea around that LXC recognized NMJ by his abs, but this doesn't really seem to be the case; it's either the shape of his (headless) body or his saber-fighting movements. Significantly, LWJ also recognizes it at the exact same time: "As they saw the headless shadow, both [LXC and LWJ] paused shortly." LXC's reaction to this recognition is extreme surprise, "almost to the point of shocked," and he takes a bit to resume playing Liebing, joining LWJ on the guqin (to deal with the headless corpse that's going around). 'Shock' is hardly incompatible with immense personal grief, but I will note that in this section he is also not described as anything other than shocked, although it is his first time seeing NMJ's body in ten years.

In a few paragraphs they deal with the corpse, attacking its energy enough that it falls back into pieces. As WWX seals the pieces back into his qiankun pouch, LXC asks him to wait: he wants to look at the corpse first, and he's described as having an "ashen" complexion. In context, though, both of these things seem to me to be about the likely identity of NMJ's killer, rather than NMJ himself; when LXC says he want to look at the corpse, WWX asks him if he recognizes the corpse, but it's not LXC who replies: "Before Lan XiChen could reply, Lan WangJi already nodded slowly." Moreover, as WWX points out, LWJ has already given LXC all the evidence that points at JGY as the killer—and also, after they do start talking about the identity of the killer, LXC shows no further interest in the corpse. This, from WWX, seems to me to sum up LXC's emotional conflict in this conversation: "Sect Leader Lan, you know who is the most suspicious person. You’re just refusing to admit it." It's not about NMJ being the corpse per se; it's what NMJ being the corpse suggests JGY did. ETA: I look at this scene in more detail here.

(I'll also note that the very first time we see LXC have anything to do with NMJ's corpse, it's in chapter 11, in the context of LWJ asking if LXC is visiting JGY "again" and a paragraph on JGY from WWX which includes the revelation that he and LXC are sworn brothers on the one hand, and LXC talking about LWJ being in good spirits and bringing guests home on the other. Meanwhile, NMJ's arm: 'Lan XiChen spoke, “Uncle has taken and examined what you brought back from Mo Village.”'

Now obviously we can't infer LXC's feelings about NMJ from this directly, given that he doesn't know it's NMJ's arm at the time, but it's certainly textually suggestive, and it very much fits in with a pattern of LXC prioritizing JGY and LWJ.)

That's most of the end of chapter 46; the next chapter has LXC, LWJ, and WWX going to the discussion conference at Carp Tower. Again, it's kind of hard to prove a negative, and LXC's reactions aren't really described at great length (though he does of course greet JGY with a smile); the only thing that seems unusual is that he seems "absent-minded."

Chapters 48 and 49, and part of 50, are the Empathy chapters. After WWX escapes from the flashback and returns to LWJ, he and LWJ start causing a ruckus trying to get into JGY's bedchamber (to get to his secret room). An audience is attracted, including LXC. Taking a cue from LWJ, he pressures his way into the treasure room; he seems relieved when NMJ's head isn't behind the curtain WWX lifts. He has—well, he certainly has a few emotional reactions, but at no point does he seem driven by grief over NMJ instead of uncertainty about JGY. At one point he "nod[s] heavily" to confirm to NHS that he's talking about NMJ. Or consider this exchange:

Jin GuangYao’s eyes still held tears, but appeared as if they were red with anger. He clenched his hands into fists and shouted with both grief and resentment, “Dismembered… Dismembered! Who in this world could’ve done such an insane act?!”

Lan XiChen shook his head, “I do not know. When we were searching for the head, the clues disappeared.”

Now obviously JGY is acting—but he's acting the role of someone who /is/ personally mourning NMJ, and he's showing more anger than LXC ever does about it. Now—to be fair, MDZS LXC gets angry even less than CQL LXC, who is hardly an angry person. But there are a few times we do see him angry—certain moments confronting JGY in the temple, in the temple courtyard when he's angry at WWX for how he's treated LWJ—and what happens to NMJ's body, never mind the fact of the death itself, doesn't seem to make the list.

In chapter 63, WWX wakes up in CR, having been recovering for four days. In this chapter and the next two, LXC becomes increasingly distressed as they discover the Song of Turmoil and the evidence seems to weigh against Jin Guangyao, enough that it's not really feasible to review every instance of it. Nevertheless, there are a couple of parts I think it's worth looking at directly.

In chapter 64, we get something extremely valuable: LXC's statement of his own emotional quandary.

Lan XiChen supported his head on his hand. His voice was low, as though he was trying to hold something back, “WangJi, the version of Jin GuangYao that I know is entirely different compared to the version that you know and the version that the world knows! Throughout all these years, in my eyes, he has always been… enduring his suffer, caring for all people, treating everyone with respect. I have always believed, without a doubt, that the criticism he received from others all came from misunderstandings, that what I knew how he truly is. Now, you want me to believe, at once, that everything about this person is fake, that he planned to kill one of his sworn brothers, that I was also a part of his plan and even helped him… Could you please allow me some more discretion before I make my own judgement?”

So, what is he distressed by here? It's quite clearly the idea that he /doesn't/ know JGY, that the JGY he knows is fake, a falsehood, and relatedly that their relationship is not as he understands it ("that I was also a part of his plan and even helped him"). JGY killing NMJ is obviously what inspires this crisis, but it's not at all what's centered in his speech here, and even the half-sentence mention that it gets doesn't frame it at all in terms of NMJ's relationship to LXC. "He planned to kill one of his sworn brothers," he says, not "our sworn brother" or "my sworn brother" or even "my friend."

(The paragraph immediately following reads to me more like WWX's conclusions than narrative certainty, but either way, it's not about his personal relationship with NMJ: "Lan XiChen had taught Jin GuangYao the Song of Clarity, keeping in mind the grudge between Jin GuangYao and Nie MingJue, hoping that they could be how they used to be. He requested Jin GuangYao to help calm Nie MingJue in place of him. Who would’ve known that his kindness made possible Jin GuangYao’s cruelty? How should he face himself now?")

Later in the chapter, there's the famous section where he tells WWX about his and LWJ's parents' story. I do think part of this is about telling WWX something about LWJ (although not that LWJ has feelings for him, which MDZS LXC thinks he already knows), but it's also pretty transparently about his own uncertainty re: JGY.

He paused before speaking again, “Young Master Wei, can you understand why he did such a thing?”

Wei WuXian answered after a moment of silence, “He could neither forgive the one who killed his teacher nor watch the death of the woman who he loved. He could only marry her to protect her life and force himself not to see her.”

Lan XiChen, “Do you think that this was right?”

Wei WuXian, “I don’t know.”

Lan XiChen looked somewhat lost, “Then, what do you think would be right?”

Wei WuXian, “I don’t know.”

A while later, [Lan Xichen speaks again, in a whisper]

He spoke, “Madam Lan must’ve been a very gentle woman.”

Lan XiChen, “In my memories, Mother had indeed been so. I do not know why she did such a thing back then. And, in truth, I…”

He took in a deep breath before confessing, “Do not want to know either.”

It's not what you might call subtle.

But it's also worth noting, I think, exactly what LXC focuses on telling the story. It was one of his father's teachers that his mother killed—and while that is absolutely a very important position, and obviously would have mattered and indeed did matter to QHJ a great deal—that's literally all the information we get about him, that he was QHJ's teacher. He lingers on why QHJ did what he did, and whether it was the right thing; he talks about the crime his mother committed, and his response to that. He does not focus at all on the teacher, the clear NMJ-analogue in this scenario. He's not QHJ's beloved teacher, or his favourite teacher, or anything like that—he's not even just "his teacher," he's "one of his teachers." And maybe that's all the information he has about him, but he doesn't linger on that question either! Again, there's nothing here to suggest that his conflict is about his personal connection with NMJ.

ETA: I actually missed something here. Thanks to some critique in the notes (and which I discuss more extensively in the post linked at the bottom of the page), I looked at the Chinese here, and the word LXC uses for teacher is 恩师, which Pleco gives me as “mentor; one’s kind and respected master (or teacher).” So on the one hand, that's not nothing. On the other hand, the point remains that it's only one word, LXC isn't adding lots of adjectives on to describe the teacher, and as I mentioned in the previous paragraph, simply doesn't linger on the teacher in his conversation with WWX; the focus is elsewhere. I think the point as a whole stands.

Now to the temple chapters. I think it's fairly well-known, at this point, that he doesn't bring up NMJ to JGY in the temple chapters, but I'm going to point it out again—he doesn't bring up NMJ to JGY in the temple chapters! And this is, I feel, even more significant in MDZS, where he's seen NMJ's fierce corpse. That said, there are a few instances where he reacts to NMJ/NMJ's corpse; I'm going to look at all of them.

First of all, in ch 104 when WWX says "Looks like being called the son of a prostitute is really Sect Leader Jin’s weak spot. No wonder you killed ChiFeng-Zun," we're told that "With the mention of Nie MingJue, Lan XiChen’s expression changed." No further details are provided; we don't know what it changes into, and the only hint we have as to what it changes /from/ is that LXC's last described reaction, only two paragraphs previous, was calling "Sect Leader Jin" because he knew JGY was about to fuck with JC. Also interestingly, LXC does /not/ have any reaction described when JGY and JC have the "isn't it hard being your shixiong/isn't it even harder being your sworn brother" exchange, earlier in chapter 101. Perhaps his reaction is simply not noted by the text—it seems unlikely he has literally zero reaction to it—but if we're looking for a difference, it seems like it's either the explicit reference to killing NMJ, or the reminder of NMJ calling JGY the son of a prostitute.

Second, there's the moment NMJ('s fierce corpse) shows up (ch 106). He, JGY, and NHS all say "Brother." JGY and LXC's responses are one paragraph after the other, and the punctuation is the same: "… Brother."* Meanwhile, NHS reacts first, a few paragraphs earlier, and he cries out, "Brother!!!" We're told that "[their] three tones were drastically different," which is interesting as well. NHS seems in the grip of some strong, active emotion—excitement? grief? We're explicitly told that JGY is scared. Whatever LXC's tone is, it's hard to say—but it's not like NHS'.

*(In the original text it looks like LXC's is "…Brother." and JGY's is "…Brother...", but either way they're significantly more similar to each other's than either is to NHS'.)

Thirdly and finally, when the Jin cultivators are fighting NMJ's corpse (ch 107), NHS peers out from behind LXC's back and calls out to NMJ ("both frightened and eager"), leading NMJ to charge at them. LXC stops him by playing Liebing, then then tries to get him to recognize identifying NHS ("Brother, this is Huaisang!"); the latter unfortunately does not work, NMJ being totally overcome by resentful energy. This section does actually have some evidence of grief: when he plays Liebing, it's described as "with a sob of Liebing."

He'll continue to try and deal with NMJ's corpse, notably with LWJ and WWX, but those three moments are the only times he reacts to NMJ (as NMJ, as opposed to as a fierce corpse that needs to be dealt with). That's not a lot, and each moment is very brief, not to mention fairly ambiguous about LXC's emotional reaction. If he /was/ being driven by his grief for NMJ's death, you would think we'd see more of it.

Furthermore, there's one moment I think it's important to pull out as explicitly not about NMJ. LXC tells JGY (and had told him previously) not to call LXC er-ge, /not/ because he killed da-ge (which you might expect!) but because of the second siege: “Sect Leader Jin, I have already said, when you went your own way to scheme such havoc at Burial Mound, that there was no longer the need to call me ‘Brother.’”

Now, to be clear, it's not that LXC's reactions to things just aren't described in the temple sequence in general. Obviously we see him react when he's telling LWJ about WWX's feelings, but even beyond that, even when he's occupying a more background role in the narrative, we're given his reaction quite a few times. He sighs when LWJ seals his spiritual powers (ch 100); he tends to NHS, covering with his outer robe (ch 102), comforting him when he's disturbed at the sight of the coffin (ch 103), protecting him from SMS (after NHS frames him for stabbing him, ch. 107) and from NMJ (ch 107), and comforting him and giving him pain medicine about the wound in his leg (ch 108); along with LWJ, he's distressed by the sound of JC's sword-scraping technique against JGY's music (ch 101); he tries to warn JC a couple of times when JC is fighting JGY (ch 101), cautions JL (ch 101) and later JC (ch 102) about worsening JC's injuries, and along with JL, WWX, and LWJ freezes when JC slaps JL to the ground (ch 102); he asks Minshan why he's being rude to LWJ, and a little later, with SMS and JL, pauses in astonishment when LWJ laughs (ch 100); he averts his gaze from and seems perhaps embarassed by the ghosts that WWX summons (ch 104); he calls out to WWX to remind him that his current body is closely related to JGY, and will therefore attract NMJ's fierce corpse (ch 107). He actually has a couple of entertaining reactions to Wangxian being Wangxian: he coughs and tells WWX it is maybe not the best time and place for this when WWX is about to repeat "I really wanted to sleep with you," and then later he and Jin Ling inexplicably! move their sitting cushions far away from Wangxian's and gaze into the distance (ch 100).

And more than anything else—in what I think is a very instructive contrast—he reacts to JGY, in a way that reflects an ongoing continual emotional investment. He is, quite notably, consistently worried about JGY and unable to stand the sight of him in pain, even when he thinks he shouldn't be. When the coffin trap goes off, and they overhear Jin cultivators wailing and a pungent smoke emerges, there's worry in LXC's eyes; after JGY and Minshan make it out, and JGY takes some medicine against the poison, LXC hesitates for a moment and then asks what happened (ch 103). After LWJ cuts JGY's hand off—which means /after/ he's taken JL hostage, note—LXC "seemed as though he wanted to help him for an instant," though "in the end he dared not" (ch 106). When Minshan asks him for medicine for JGY, seeing how terrible JGY looks, he hesitates slightly before they're interrupted by NMJ's success fighting the Jin cultivators (ch 107). After they've defeated NMJ, he treats JGY's wrist; moreover, "Seeing that Jin GuangYao almost passed out from the pain, Lan XiChen, who in the beginning wanted to use this to punish him, still didn’t have the heart to bear it," and goes for the pain-relief medicine from NHS. And this is all not even accounting for his reactions to JGY either during his questioning of JGY or post-stabbing!

And what about when he's distressed by JGY? When he's reacting with upset or anger? There seem to be two consistent threads: first, that JGY did awful things/hurt people /not/ under constraint, and second, the idea that he doesn't know JGY after all and their relationship was a lie.

For the first, he calls out Sect Leader Jin when JGY starts in on JC after JC calls him the son of a prostitute (ch 104), although notably he does not do the same in their earlier confrontation when JGY is distracting JC in order to defeat him, only warning JC (ch 101); when JGY confesses to having burned down the brothel, he's distressed when JGY says that it wasn't entirely to remove the traces (ch 105); he becomes /less/ angry about the second siege and about QS when it turns out that he was operating under constraint in those conditions (ch 106); and of course, the thing he's angriest about is JGY killing his father, "and even in such a way" (ch 106). In ch 103, looking down at the coffin he is shocked that JGY buried something that caused such horror to its surroundings, but without further information about JGY's reasons this does not metamorphose into anger.

For the second, when WWX him asks why there's no light shining from Shuoyue, he tells him "It's quite a shame," and that he "was fooled by lies" and had his cultivation sealed (ch 99); when JGY assures him that he'll let him and NHS go without harm when the time comes, he asks if he should believe him (ch 100); when JGY asks if LXC isn't going to ask him /why/ he set the fire (since it wasn't entirely to erace the traces), we have this important excerpt (ch 105):

“In the past, it was not that I did not know what you did, but that I believed you had your reasons behind doing them.”

He continued, “But, you have done too much. And I… no longer know if I should believe you.”

Fatigue and disappointment sunk heavily into his tone.

And then after JGY takes JL hostage (ch 106), this one:

Lan XiChen spoke slowly, “Sect Leader Jin, you lied again.”

Jin GuangYao, “Just this once. There’ll be no next time.”

Lan XiChen, “This was what you said last time. I can no longer tell which of your words are true.”

LXC asks him about the letter in the first place because "whenever he heard there might be hiddenmight hidden reasons, he just had to hear it" (ch 105); when WWX challenges him before he tends to JGY's wounds, he says "Many things still remain unanswered" (ch 108).

His upset at JGY "attacking" him is in ch 108, I think, a combination of the two—in CQL, it reads more like he's angry that JGY took an action that made him need to attack JGY than anything else, but in MDZS he experiences it as a real betrayal: "As he saw Nie HuaiSang’s expression along with the warning, he felt something in his heart go cold." Because it would have been one; it's a line that JGY hasn't crossed, and as it turns out it's a line that JGY hadn't crossed, and would never.

And lastly, after JGY's death, we have once again LXC's explicit statement of his difficulties—and while LXC's post-stabbing difficulties could be different from his pre-stabbing ones, it's at least an important consideration, and it is in line with the rest of what we see:

“… Just what does he want to do? I once thought I knew him well, and then I realized I did not. Before tonight, I thought I knew him well once more, but now I do not.” Nobody could give him an answer. Lan XiChen repeated in frustration, “Just what does he want to do?”

Looking over the evidence, he's hurt and angry that JGY would do awful things not under constraint, and about the idea that he doesn't know JGY after all/their relationship is a lie. I do think it's unlikely that he's zero percent upset about JGY contributing to NMJ's death—I tend to think they talked about if offscreen, between LXC leaving with him from Gusu and WWX finding them in the temple, and that's why LXC doesn't bring him up in the temple sequence. But whatever he's feeling, his reactions to JGY don't seem to be about his own personal grief for or relationship with NMJ, and if they /had/ been about that I think there's several moments in the temple that would have played out differently.

One last note: I see often the idea that LXC going into seclusion after JGY's death is for his grief about /both/ his sworn brothers. At this point, you're probably unsurprised to learn that I don't think the evidence supports this. Not only, again, do we have very little evidence of his personal grief for NMJ post-timeskip—ten years past NMJ's death!—even after NMJ shows up again, but there's a distinct change in him after JGY dies. Before that, he's obviously distressed, but he's still tracking and on top of things; afterwards, on the other hand, we're told that "If it were the usual ZeWu-Jun, he couldn’t have failed to fathom [what WWX was suggesting the letter be intended to cause]. But right now, it was likely he had no more space in his mind to think" (ch 109), which tracks pretty well with his absent-mindedness at the banquet a few months down the line (ch 116). Nothing about LWJ's discussion with WWX of LXC's state suggests it's at all precedented (ch 115), and in fact when LQR talks to him immediately after JGY dies, we're told that "Lan XiChen’s face was full of an unspeakable grief" and that "Lan QiRen had never seen Lan XiChen, a child he single-handedly brought up, look so agitated and discomposed" (ch 110). JGY's death is a breaking point; NMJ's death, at the time or now, simply is not.

In conclusion, while he was certainly friends with NMJ pre-Sunshot, and that is genuinely rare for LXC, they began to grow apart during Sunshot; and while LXC continued to care for NMJ, he was not at all intimate with him, and showed no sign of particularly enjoying or seeking out his company. Later, while he is certainly disturbed at the idea that JGY might have killed NMJ, this is because it suggests that he /doesn't/ know JGY after all, and his reactions to JGY then and at the temple are not driven by his personal grief for or relationship with NMJ, nor is his seclusion in any way related to his feelings for NMJ.

ETA: All quotes taken from the Exiled Rebels translation.

ETA: I discuss some critique of this by @/hqfeels here.

#ship negativity cw #ship meme #I'm done!!!#good fucking god this took me a month #that damn bingo post #long meta #profound philosophical differences #anger burned in his heart #the best of men #a gentle warmth filling the deepest of needs

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neverdoingmuch · 3 years

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hello! I just wanted to ask, which do you think in the mdzs novel has the most questionable morality? like they have done more bad things but they still had kindness in them somehow (?)

oh!! this is a hard one for me anon! i’m always bad at ranking characters but i’ll do my best! i’m not sure if you were hoping for like a quick answer or a long one but i’m gonna go with a long one bc that’s always fun and i’ll do a tldr if you don’t want to read through all that? yeah that seems like it’ll work because holy shit i didnt mean for it to get so long (and kind of away from the point of your ask too so sorry about that!)

okay! So, the three main contenders for morally dubious characters are, as far as I’ve seen, Xue Yang, Jin Guangyao, and Wei Wuxian. Not a big surprise, I’m sure. While they’re the more obvious options, they do have a lot of parallels and exhibit a lot of the themes and ideas that MXTX was getting at. I mean, I love looking at Jin Guangyao and Wei Wuxian as foils, and even other combinations of the three, so my answer will probably be heavy on the comparisons. I do think it’s worth touching on Jiang Cheng as well though. Also, I’ll try to stay as unbiased as I can because there’s a few characters on this list that I just don’t like … like at all.

Jiang Cheng tends to get brushed over a lot when it comes to some of the horrible things he’s done. From promising to protect Wei Wuxian from dogs only to immediately use them as a threat whenever he wants to to leading a siege on a group of people he knows are completely innocent of any crimes to torturing and killing people for thirteen years, he’s definitely not a good person. His concerns lie first and foremost with himself and his. That doesn’t seem like a horrible thing at first – he should owe his loyalty to himself, his family, and his sect – but it does mean that when the Xuanwu’s cave situation happened, his response was to get mad that Wei Wuxian helped Jin Zixuan and Lan Wangji. (And that’s why Jiang Fengmian got mad at him!). Later on, when pressure comes from the sects regarding Wei Wuxian, Jiang Cheng chooses not to stand with him, which, while understandable, isn’t exactly a kind move to someone who called Jiang Cheng his family and was trying to repay the debt the two of them owed Wen Qing. There’s no denying that he does care about Wei Wuxian, but when forced to make hard choices, he picks what’s easiest for himself. In general, I’d say that his sense of morality is selfish and somewhat flighty, but not necessarily questionable, so I’ll move on!

For the usual suspects, I’ll start with Xue Yang because I’m just going to immediately eliminate him from the running. I’ve seen people interpret his character sympathetically or try to justify some of his actions or the way he turned out, but I honestly just can’t. While you could feel sympathetic towards him because of his childhood, we have Wei Wuxian as a direct contrast to Xue Yang, as well as, to a certain degree, Jin Guangyao. Both Xue Yang and Wei Wuxian were street kids who had a horrible time in their youth, but Wei Wuxian was able to leave that behind him. That’s a lot easier to do when you’ve been adopted into a major sect and afforded comforts above your station (and also have terrible coping mechanisms), but even Jin Guangyao’s revenge isn’t quite as wide-spread and malicious. I know it may seem a bit obvious, anon, but some people really do try and treat Xue Yang like he’s morally dubious which confuses me a lot because how?? Even if we do say that he has suitable cause, one of the messages of the novel is that your past experiences don’t justify your future actions, so even within the context of the novel – a novel which is concerned with highlighting the grey areas of morality – Xue Yang isn’t afforded any sympathy. So, there’s really no way to construe him in a positive light. His only moments of kindness come with his time spent in Yi City with Xiao Xingchen, where Xue Yang doesn’t change much – he may have cared for Xiao Xingchen, but Xue Yang still tortured him as he did so. I never quite read that arc as Xue Yang learning to care or being allowed to be kind again so I’d just say that he lacks both morals and kindness. On that basis we can boot him from this competition.

Jin Guangyao may have been one of the antagonists of the novel, but he wasn't a completely bad person or like The Worst. His main crimes involved getting revenge for slights against him or his mother – being from Nie Mingjue, Jin Guangshan, or any number of other cultivators. I think that, to an extent, his actions are justifiable. While you can contrast this to the way Wei Wuxian gets called a servant's son, they do differ in the fact that Wei Wuxian is afforded a higher level of protection due to him being favoured by Jiang Fengmian. Additionally, when Wei Wuxian does have his birth used against him, he's usually the person who acted out first anyway. Jin Guangyao was insulted for doing little more than exist and was never the person to act out first, yet still faced a near constant onslaught of insults. I'm not saying his actions were justified by any means, but the reasoning behind his actions is sound. The one thing I will note is that he doesn't let go of his grudges – even when everything is all done and dusted and he has everything that he could possibly want from life, he still holds onto that hatred. I remember seeing a post where someone mentioned that characters who were able to move on and change for the better were able to get their happy ending in MDZS, which isn't relevant here but definitely applies to Jin Guangyao when thinking about why he got the ending he did. I don't agree with the degree to which he enacted his revenge against certain characters and I loathe the whole Qin Su situation. I don't care how much he cries about it, he could've at least told her, but I mainly just pretend that part didn't exist. So, he has suitable cause for at least some of his actions, and his other victims can just be classified as necessary collateral rather than being intentional innocent targets, if that makes sense, but he's definitely vindictive and spiteful.

On the other hand, he did a lot of good, too. He's a side character for the most part so Jin Guangyao didn't get the most screen-time, but we do hear of some of the good things he's done. The main example would probably be the watchtowers. One of the interesting things about Jin Guangyao and Wei Wuxian is that while both of them are capable of kindness, the breadth and scope of Jin Guangyao's is much broader – the watchtowers are an idea that not only showcase how Jin Guangyao's upbringing allows him to see flaws in the cultivation world that the other privileged cultivators can't, but also show how he does care about the people. I've seen a few people try and play it as a spying technique but I don’t really believe that in the slightest. I mean, the point of the towers is to cover the areas where the sects aren't, so I have no idea what Jin Guangyao's people would even be spying on. Anyway, setting up those watchtowers really didn't benefit him any specific way – unless you consider him endearing himself to Lan Xichen and garnering a good reputation with the common folk something that outweighs the absolute nightmare it would have been to make the sects participate in the project to begin with. In a more specific case, Jin Ling's dog was given to him by Jin Guangyao. It's interesting that, despite Jin Ling spending the novel being trailed by Jiang Cheng, the gift that he obviously cares for deeply is from Jin Guangyao. In the Guanyin Temple scene I definitely got the sense that Jin Ling had loved and trusted Jin Guangyao before the truth came out so I'm firmly convinced that he would've been a wonderful and conscientious uncle to him and just generally good to the people who worked for him and/or the commoners.

Okay, now Wei Wuxian!! As far as I've seen, people are relatively good at staying true to his questionable sense of morality. Like with Jin Guangyao, we know that he can be vindictive and pretty excessive when it comes to getting his revenge, but I'm not going to deny that I was definitely rooting for him when he went after Wen Chao and his little gang. The main issue with Wei Wuxian is probably the demonic cultivation – the stigma against it tends to get reduced to it being bad for the user and their temperament etc. etc., but there's more to it than that. I'm no expert on Daoism by any means, but from my understanding desecration of corpses and disturbing the dead is a significant cultural taboo. This isn't just Wei Wuxian doing something no one else can do (though it certainly is true), it's also him doing something no one else should do. I've seen the massacre at Nightless City being added as another tally to his list of crimes, but I honestly think that that isn’t a crime worth adding – he needed to defend himself so he did, simple as that.

As I mentioned above, Wei Wuxian's kindness is a bit more specific – where Jin Guangyao cares for the people, Wei Wuxian cares for individuals. We see his kindness more clearly, be it because he's the main character or be it because actions are clearer and stronger when it's for a single person or a small group. It's a bit easier, in my opinion, to care about people when you don't have to live with them and face them every day, but Wei Wuxian does. Even though Wei Wuxian led a lot more comfortable life than Jin Guangyao, we never really see Jin Guangyao get his hands dirty in the same way Wei Wuxian does. When a sacrifice needs to be made, Wei Wuxian’s the one who makes it. He doesn't relegate, he does it himself. We know that he would do absolutely anything for those he cares about and that's why he's able to commit a lot of the atrocities he does.

When it comes to deciding between Jin Guangyao and Wei Wuxian for most questionable morality, I think we need to look at the reasons behind their actions. Wei Wuxian’s sense of morality is definitely nowhere near that of the Lans but he has always been driven by his sense of justice and his love for those around him. In that sense, I've always read him as having a flexible sense of morality rather than a questionable one. I'm not sure how much of it ties in with his sense of duty, but it's definitely a lot. Wei Wuxian is, and always will, fill the role that is required of him – be it the childish and sweet younger brother, the talented but flippant older brother, the monster that wins the war, or the fierce protector that gives his all, Wei Wuxian will twist himself into whatever position he's needed in at that moment. Obviously, he went after Wen Chao for his own benefit, and the corrupting influence of the resentful energy does need to be factored into this, but at his core, Wei Wuxian will always value his duty (to his sect, family, friends, and innocents) and doing what is right over anything else. He may have stumbled along the way, but he did manage to form his own path to uphold all the values that he wanted to. Jin Guangyao, on the other hand, is similar to Jiang Cheng in how he's driven by his own motivations for betterment and revenge, albeit with more grace and intelligence. Jin Guangyao may masquerade as being motivated by any number of causes but he will never do anything at his own risk, and he will always be his top priority. So, while it's a close call between Wei Wuxian and Jin Guangyao, I'm going to have to go with Jin Guangyao on this one!

tldr; the fandom favourites for questionable morality are xy, jgy, and wwx so i mainly looked at them. I included jc as well but neither xy or jc demonstrate the dichotomy needed so they got eliminated from the running. Jgy and wwx both commit and are willing to commit horrible crimes as well as being capable of caring for others and being kind. but, where wwx is driven by his sense of justice and love for others, jgy is driven by his own motivations for betterment and revenge, making for a more questionable morality (as compared to wwx's more flexible morality).

#mdzs #mdzs text #mdzs meta #dfgrgt i was like hm but what if this post isnt good enough to tag as meta #modao zushi #wei wuxian #jin guangyao #xue yang #jiang cheng #grandmaster of demonic cultivation #asks #legal talks #i figured that since i wasnt giving a very interesting answer i might as well throw in some discussion too #i hope this answers your question anon!!#thanks for asking me i had a lot of fun answering this #in case you couldnt tell from the uhh 2k i wrote #Anonymous #but if you want to send any more asks please do!! i love discussing things like this

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coaxionunlimited · 4 years

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Moderately Rare Untamed/MDZS Fic Recs

For when you find fic from sorting by kudos, but you’ve got tag fatigue and you want to read something new. Or, hey, maybe you just want some MDZS fic recs. I’m not here to judge. * means it’s incomplete, for those of you that care.

Obligatory WangXian Category:

crack in the mirror by the_pretzel*: The premise of this one is that Wei Wuxian gets transported from the modern world into a mystery novel series, set in ancient China. But he’s in the body of a character that’s about to get married, and then murdered by his husband. So he breaks the engagement by starting a new one with Lan Wangji and then the first chapter ends. This one is a rollercoaster. WWX soon discovers that his character’s been keeping secrets, and he’s got to figure them out if he wants to get out of this alive. If there was a best drama award for fics, this one would get it. Every chapter has me on the edge of my seat in a different way, as WWX gets out of one mess only to find himself in a bigger one. And that doesn’t even touch on the romance - this is one of the ones where you can just about feel all the pining LWJ is doing, even though it’s WWX pov and he’s oblivious to all of it. Honestly, this fic is the reason this rec list exists.

set your old heart free series by words-writ-in-starlight: Do you like crying? I like crying. That’s why I’m recommending this series to you, so you can cry too! I’m putting this under WangXian, because it’s a story about Lan Wangji and you can’t really have LWJ without the pining, but the real core of the story is the family LWJ has built in Cloud Recesses. Lan Shizui and Lan Xichen, and eventually (because this series starts just after WWX dies - what, I did say I liked crying) Wei Wuxian joins in. There’s even a little Wen Ning! If you like having feelings and also any of the characters I’ve mentioned, like, at all, this series is worth checking out.

The Terminus of Gravity by sealdog: Every fandom needs a space opera au, and sealdog delivers. This is pretty much a strait transportation of the plot of canon to the future and also space, with a side of epistolary and Wen remnants family time, and I’ll stop there because I don’t really want to spoil it. I’m a huge sucker for melancholy and pining and also well written space operas, because even if the premise isn’t your game, it is well written, and it’s worth a read.

Tales from Bunny Mountain by telarna: Lan sect turns into bunnies because of an excess of yin ener- look, we get Lan Zhan as a bunny with bonus Lan Shizui as a bunny. Do you really care why? This is another one of those fics that’s in the WangXian section because if LWJ and WWX are in a fic together, some things just come naturally, but the real draw for me is- well, I’m not going to lie, most of the draw was LWJ as a bunny, but I stayed with the fic for Jin Ling. Good Jin Ling characterization and a lovely, mischievous WWX, who also happens to be a very good uncle. And we have Lan sect as bunnies. Terrible, troublesome bunnies. 11/10, a must read.

through a window softly by impossibletruths: Okay, finally, we finish off the WangXian section with a fic that is actually about WangXian, not just featuring it prominently. through a window softly is a college au where LWJ and WWX are two different types of music major and also neighbors. WWX plays flute and LWJ plays violin and sometimes they stand outside their apartments and play together and pine for the mystery person that’s playing music with them. Look, they fall in love through playing music together, I’ve been looking for a fic like this since WWX first pulled out his flute in canon. There’s misunderstandings and identity porn, if you need some excellent bonus reasons to click this one, and I enjoyed both of those immensely. But what I really, truly loved was WangXian and love and music, and the intersection of all three.

Nie Huaisang: gen edition. Because I have a favorite character and that’s your problem now.

Mistakes We Made by Rachel3*: Nie Huaisang travels back in time and decides to prevent his brother’s death. This is the Nie Huaisang fic for me. I love love love his characterization here. Rachel3 strikes the delicate balance between the sweet kid he once was and the mastermind he grows up to be, making him competent but not an OP genius and sympathetic but not, like, a very good person. The plot is complex and realistic, tackling the sort of complex struggles (both interpersonal and large scale) that time travel fics very rarely bother with. If you've ever been curious about NHS, if you’ve ever even wanted to know him slightly better, this is the fic for you.

The Lost Cause by KouriArashi: AU in which Nie Huaisang and Jin Guangyao work together to take down Jin Guangshan from the beginning. I recommended the last fic for good characterization. I can’t in good conscience say the same for this fic, but that’s kind of the point. If you’re tired of moderation and realism and just want someone to take the hammer and fix canon already, this is the story for you. It’s hilarious and cathartic, and manages to be totally lighthearted even though it’s 100% about murder and manipulation.

say those words (it’s not forgotten) by paranoid_fridge: This is edging on too well known for this list, but hey! My recs, my rules. And this is an absolute must read for everyone ever. If you haven’t read it, you should, and if you have read it, you can probably stand to do it again. This is a story about Nie Huaisang’s birthday. It’s a slice of life story, and a character study, and a little bit of a feel good hurt comfort fic, and it does all of those things magnificently. The author tags every relationship in this fic except the one braincell trio, which is a shame because it really is a NHS & WWX & JC fic, and if you weren’t craving one of those then why are you in this fandom? Why are you on my reclist?

SangCheng is my OTP and that is also your problem:

best behavior by inberin: I might as well take this space to recommend the whole sangcheng revenge au (dancing ashes under the sun (will cast their shadow when the winds rise) by paranoid_fridge really is the fic for it, but it’s too well known to make this list). The premise is simple, Jiang Cheng lost his golden core, the Wens won, and Nie Huaisang is taking them down from the inside with JC as his right hand man. best behavior makes the list for JC and NHS trolling each other (my favorite part of any sangcheng fic), and the lovely angst of two teenagers who grew up much too fast. The writing style of this one is lovely and poetic, the imagery is on point, and the sangcheng chemistry is the best.

Of Trespassing and Table Slams by LiteralistSin: I’ve put a fluffy fic in every category so far, and it’s SangCheng’s turn. There’s not much plot to this one, just SangCheng trying to outmaneuver each other and NHS being a little shit, and JC getting to win for once. Oh, yeah, and NHS gets kissed on a table. Everything my SangCheng loving heart needs.

everything rynleaf has ever written: I’m putting this one under sangcheng because rynleaf has three sangcheng fics, and I couldn’t pick just one. Really though, you should at least check out What Remains of Meng Yao too, if you like crying. The sangcheng fics all strike the lovely balance between sangcheng tension and trolling each other and really truly sincerely caring about each other beneath all of it. Rynleaf writes some of the sweetest Jiang Cheng you ever did see, even when you’re looking through NHS’ jaded eyes. NHS is great here too, in all his secrets and his magnificent bastardry, you can just feel the smug smile he’s got on in every scene.

our footsteps sing a reckless serenade by ThirtySixSaveFiles: Because I cannot believe this one has so few kudos. Seriously, it’s a 46,000 word long modern with magic au where Jiang Cheng and NHS have an arranged marriage and fall in love. And that’s not even getting into the intrigue and the secrets NHS is keeping, and the murder mystery- There’s a lot of reasons to love this fic, and you definitely want to read it and discover all of them.

#wangxian #the untamed #mdzs #nie huaisang #sangcheng #fic recs

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eldritch-elrics · 3 years

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svsss: binghe callout party + the system’s punishment

so much happened in these chapters oh my god. i can’t believe i’m on chap 74 of 81

tldr: sqq needs to stop procrastinating on his sexuality crisis, also yay for cqms protecting its own but oh no for binghe discovering the truth about his parents, also COOL system penalty. oh and fake internet drama my beloved

zzl my poor, poor boy. i hate that he killed gongyi xiao but :((( he’s trying so hard to be nice to sqq!!! sqq’s making it so hard for him!

it’s also really interesting how fixated on repaying debts/revenges he is. i know it’s demon culture being different from human culture but i am going hmm… neurodivergence momence….

tlj, completely unprompted, once again: huh, so sqq likes threesomes does he? very interesting…

sqq saying he trusts binghe <3

seems like sqq believes binghe will change. i also believe in him! though seeing what lbh’s been like, we’ll see how fast that change happens lol.

sqq also says later that most of the tension between him and lbh has been a misunderstanding, which… yeah that’s fair enough. but sqq is very much at fault for a lot of that misunderstanding! because he is (or used to be, at least) shit at communication! at least he’s been taking responsibility

always astounded by how much effort liu qingge goes through to rescue sqq, whether that’s just his body or his actual person. sqq is really just drowning in men who want to do things for him

sqh confessing everything and babbling at lqg <3 and oh my god he fought mobei-jun?

binghe: only two rooms thanks :3 i don’t have money for more :3

liu qingge: i’ll fucking kill you

i really do want to see the scene of lbh and lqg trying to share a room. i was hoping maybe they would do some enemies-to-friends bro bonding but it seems like it’s too early for that… grudges like that can’t be fixed in one night...

we’re almost at chapter 70 and sqq still thinks he’s straight.

funny that the system says it needs to save resources? that feels like a bad excuse. there’s never been a problem like that before… and doesn’t it make sense for the system to just have infinite resources? i’m very interested in this statement. maybe it’s just bluffing to make itself seem less powerful than it is / delay sqq’s gratification

the fact that it’s not giving him any new coolness points is probably a good thing, since he spends all of them a couple chapters later. maybe sqq will gain back all those he lost in a rush at the end of the month

SQQ IS SO EMOTIONAL ABOUT GETTING HIS FAN BACK I LOVE HIM

binghe serving him breakfast waaaa

as far as i recall, binghe’s the only one who’s been able to make the system give sqq prompts with multiple-choice answers. protagonist power! one more piece of evidence for the idea that lbh’s subconscious is what influences the system most

lqg kicking doors down is so normal that sqq doesn’t react

poor zzl for the dozenth time: gets used as a seat cushion :(

this entire next part is just Hurting Binghe Hours

this scene felt super mdzs. it’s like… stirring up a giant crowd against someone, with the intention of ruining their reputation? reminiscent of jinlan city too of course but that theme of reputation is so central to mdzs that it made me think. also the whole thing about lbh being a bastard/otherwise outside the cultivation world norm... hmm.....

“tianlang-jun is not my father. i don’t need a father.”

fucks me up…

lqg and yqy: *knocks ten angry cultivators away from sqq* oops my hand slipped

lbh ran away… bingqiu separated once more :(

ohhhhh my god the system penalty. i had totally forgot about the whole “sending him back to his original world” thing but i’m so glad it got brought up again. all the peak lords must be worried sick haha... hopefully he’ll wake up in his bed in qing jing peak or something later and it’ll all be ok

meeting og!lbh… god i got chills. that part was so good

i can’t help but notice he lost his right arm and left leg….. just like edward elric……

that’s such a good system punishment tbh like.. it’s not sending him back to HIS original world, but it’s sort of like sending him to sqq’s original world, for just a few minutes…

yay meng mo saved him!

not surprised at how bad shen jiu’s situation was. i will have to read more about it later!!

i’m so close to the end holy shit. i expect we’ll get some more bingqiu development soon but it’s so funny that sqq hasn’t even realized he’s not straight, let alone that he likes lbh! i guess this novel is really their getting-together story more than anything (we’ve got the extras for established relationship stuff) but i feel like there’s still so much left to resolve!

speaking of extras… there’s an extra chapter plopped right in the middle here? thanks mxtx lol

ok my take is: reading fake internet drama is so FUCKING funny

i do not know anything about chinese webnovel internet culture but this scene still rings so true to me… people on web forums just be like that huh

airplane is so excited about all the arguing sjkdhsjd

the fact that peerless cucumber is labeled an expert.

peerless cucumber up in here with his fantastic takes like “the monsters are so much more interesting than the endless wives” and “the only good bit is binghe’s arc”

the person who comments “cucumber bro wrote so many words just to hate on it, must be true love”

the person who comments “hey guys wanna read my bingqiu slash”

the handful of comments that are like “the romance between binghe and the women is terrible but the relationships he has with the male characters are emotional and moving” just go to solidify my “airplane is gay and knows jack shit about women” theory

again, araki jojo vibes

what a way to die, airplane

and he was thinking of sqq too! just like sqq was thinking about him when he died :) it’s fate!

#svsss #svsss spoilers #finn reads scum villain #my post

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zhansww · 3 years

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Hi. Thank you so much for replying. You gave me so much good information. I respect that you treat XZ and WY like people and not as fictional characters as I see so many people doing. I'm still reluctant to join this side of the fandom because from what I've seen so far, it's a mess. Tell me if I got this right: xfx= solo XZ fans who think WY and his team sabotaged XZ's career so he could be the top actor also hate cp fans because they support both XZ/WY. mtjj= solo WY fans.

Acknowledge that WY could be in love with XZ but think XZ doesn't care about him, hope WY moves on. They don't seem to like cp fans for not ruining XZ/WY's friendship? bjyx=cp fans. Some of them are supporters and, some of them are fetishizers. Want the solo fandoms to combine??? ( I still don't know what V/JK is) But is that the state of things?? Way more complicated than the CQL/MDZS fandom. I am enjoying your blog, your pinned post is the best introduction to the fandom imo. Are there any other analysis type blogs like yours that you could rec? Thank you. ( Sorry for the long ask)

oh my... smh your reluctance to join this part of the fandom makes you so endearing to me. If I wasn't as socially inept as I am, I'd ask you to be friends 🥺 Gonna put this all under a cut~

Let me start with the easiest thing to answer. V and Jk are two members from BTS whose relationship is shockingly real to me. I avoided writing their names or their cp name out cuz I didn't want my pinned post to show up in those searches. Unlike with ggdd, I never got the impression they'd be okay with speculations about them, though. So I don't ever feel the need to analyze or discuss about them. I just quietly believe in and support them.

You got xfx and mtjj right. Xfx is the official fan name for XZ's solo fans. Mtjj is not an official fan name, though, i.e. Yibo or his company never made it official, as far as I know. It stands for motojiejie which means motorcycle sisters, there's also mtgg = motorcycle brothers but you'll mostly see mtjj. Bxg is what ggdd's cp fans are called. It stands for BoXiaoGirls/Guys. It can also stand for baixiangguo which means "passion fruit". And there's a third meaning which I don't know but has something to do with turtles and which is why you're likely to see bxg refer to themselves as turtles. Bjyx is ggdd's main, fanmade cp name. It was coined back in April 2018, after XZ and WYB only just got confirmed as the actors who get to play WWX and LWJ. One of the rules in the bjyx supertopic on weibo is that you can't switch their "roles". And those were solely based on wang/xian but I suppose once fans realized that ggdd is actually real and their dynamic is vastly different from wang/xian, they came up with different cp names for different dynamics. There's also zsww and lsfy. (Sidenote; if I remember correctly, bjyx means “to make your special someone smile”. Zsww means “lord over a district/castle” and lsfy means “chain reaction”) And as far as I know, zsww fans are called little bandits and lsfy fans are called baby lotus. I apologize if me explaining this makes you feel weird in any way (cuz this fandom separation is dumb af) - I just wanna give you any info I have cuz you might come across some of this, at least. Anyway, the most common abbreviations you'll see; bxg = ggdd cp fans and bjyx = ggdd's cp name. There's also bjyxszd 博君一肖是真的 which means "bjyx is real" or bjyxszd 并肩于学山之巅 which means "side by side atop the snowy summit" and is a phrase that bxg use to hide the first phrase in plain sight, so to say.

I don't know what it's called but there's actually also a supertopic on weibo for XZ and WYB solo fans who believe that ggdd is real but are still only solo fans. So truthfully, you can't really generalize that. Some solo fans do believe in ggdd and are supportive but not necessarily openly. I (like to) think most solo fans are just dedicated to their idol and don't care about anything or anyone else and that's it. The rest, though... yeah, those are the obnoxious ones. Who made up ridiculous conspiracy theories about how Yibo and his company are responsible for what happened last February to gg. Or who make up theories about how XZ only got as successful as he is because he copied Yibo. They really want to believe that ggdd aren’t special to each other or that they even hate one another. So they come up with the dumbest bs to e.g. vilify XZ. Like, about a year ago, mtjj got mad at gg cuz they thought he, as dd's boyfriend, must have forced dd to sell one of his motorcycles. When Yibo uses kadian, they think he just does it to bait cp fans. But when XZ uses kadian, he's being the worst, most careless boyfriend and how tf could he put Yibo in danger like that. And yes, I've seen the same hateful mtjj spout such contradictory nonsense. It can be quite hilarious, ngl. I only follow decent solo stans so I truthfully don't know what the newest sh-t is that antis/solos have come up with.

When it comes to bxg... yes, there are a lot of supporters but also way too many who seem to be unable to separate ggdd from novel!wang/xian. They so badly want only bjyx - that dynamic - to be real that they constantly feel the need to "change reality" to make it happen by e.g. misgendering gg, drawing him smaller than dd and/or more feminine, making assumptions about him and his character that are simply untrue but fit their preferred dynamic so they keep spreading those assumptions. They way they view XZ is wrong and beyond disrespectful and yet, they call themselves fans. I genuinely hope you'll never even have to see any thing of the sort. I don't actually know anything about bxg, wanting to combine the solo fandoms xD I guess, ideally that would be desirable but I wonder if that's even possible.

Thank you so much for liking my pinned post... That and a lot of the posts that I linked in it are what I keep hoping may make more people believe in and support ggdd and it makes me so so glad that it could be of use to you! About recs, I could recommend you some twt accounts or on here, gif makers and fanartists that I like and follow but I don't follow any ggdd blogs that make a lot of text posts. And just to be clear, I don't make many text posts myself either. I stay away from rumors (unless they become more than that) and from stalker info and from all the reaching, too. You might find it interesting, I don't know, but me, I see no point, mulling over any and every minute connection between ggdd that may or may not even be real. It gets too invasive or ridiculous imo. I actually also stay away from all that recent behind the scenes footage of ggdd because I highly disapprove of the way it was acquired. I only comment on things about them that I consider reasonable and possibly noteworthy and that preferably come from the men themselves. And occasionally, I gush about how cute and perfect they are together. Sorry I can't be more helpful with this last question >.<

#ask #halobey

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fallcolorspringrapid · 3 years

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edit: nevermind, i was an idiot and this is now a cool AU

i just rewatched the first episode of the untamed and remain fucking confused about the overarching revenge/resurrection plot. attempts to google things like “who was controlling the puppets at the mo manor” or “why did xue yang pay a lot of money to listen to stories about wwx” have not been particularly helpful

the presence of xue yang is what puzzles me the most. he’s working with jin guangyao at this point, but why would jgy want to refresh the baby lans’ memories about yiling laozu? and wasn’t it supposed to be nie huaisang behind wwx’s resurrection and not jgy?

i know there are some differences between cql and mdzs, but i haven’t found a clear explanation of how the plot in the former works. i have, however, a theory. so let me tell you how i think it might go, and you can tell me where i’m wrong

k? ok, let’s go!

wwx jumps to his death and everyone (except lwj) celebrates. everything is very clear so far

mo xuanyu is bullied by his family and goes to live with the jins

jgy marries his sister, kills nie mingjue (i can’t for the life of me remember why but anyway), and works with xue yang to reconstruct the tiger amulet, not necessarily in this order

nhs is not happy about his brother’s death and starts to plot revenge

mxy learns about jgy’s horrible secrets, likely from nhs

jgy learns that mxy knows his secrets and starts plotting his murder. he also has many other murders to plot, because obviously too many people know about him

nhs learns about all of this and gets a fucking brilliant idea of how to kill all the birds with one stone: bring wwx back. but how to do that? he needs someone to sacrifice their body, and maybe the tiger amulet has to be a part of it somehow, too, idk

in any case, nhs’s solution: make jgy do the hard work. make him believe that bringing wwx back would create a convenient common enemy to unite the clans under jgy’s command. the rest will inevitably fall into place like dominoes

jgy swallows nhs’s bait and decides to kill lots of birds with one stone, too: he kicks mxy out but not before having the poor abused boy find out how he can use his body to summon wwx to get revenge. wwx will be resurrected, the other clans will find out, and jgy can have them killed at the burial mounds and make it look like it was wwx’s doing. neat!

here’s where things get muddy. did jgy intend to kill off the other members of the mo family, too? was xue yang behind the murders that happened before wwx’s resurrection? was xue yang controlling the puppets? or was that all happening because of what nhs was doing behind the scenes, namely...

nhs makes sure baxia’s sword ghost ends up at the mo manor at the same time wwx awakes, so that wwx might eventually learn the truth, expose jgy’s secrets, and thus help revenge nmj’s death

so in the end, wwx is resurrected, mxy is dead (or close enough), and xue yang pays (with jgy’s money) for the baby lans to have lessons about the evil yiling laozu, because jgy needs wwx in the open and knows that even if wwx manages to hide, there is one person who will fish him out: lan wangji

some of this is wild conjecture, and i’m pretty sure we don’t even have enough info to know how all the details of this plot are supposed to work out. but this is how i managed to make most of it, and more importantly, most of the first episode to make sense

there is one glaring hole in this theory: i can’t remember if jgy was genuinely surprised at the great wwx reveal in lanling or not. my solution to this hole is to clam he’s good enough of an actor to make it look convincing even if he knew the truth all along

ok, that was a lot. tell me everything i got totally wrong

#the untamed #cql meta #cql ep 01 #to be clear i'm not usually into plot dissection as a way of consuming media #nor do i believe that the quality of a story is determined by how seamlessly its plot works #characters and themes and emotions are more my thing #but this keeps bothering me #because how these details work out influences how i see some of the characters

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life-rewritten · 3 years

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SPOOKY SEASON! An ode to Mo Dao Zu Shi: one of the best BL story created!

HAPPY HALLOWEEN!!!!! One last Halloween post and it's about one of my favourite pieces of media in the world of BL, romance, and supernatural stories. Roll your eyes because once again I'm talking about Mo Dao Zu Shi (The grandmaster of demonic cultivation) I mean already with the demons, and cultivation is already hinting why this is Halloween themed, and trust me MDZ has much more than that: from zombies to ghosts, to magical instruments and weapons, and we love our fantasy cultivation sects and clans. Anyhoo, I am here to write a fun post another verdict/review on each of the adaptations available so far for MDZ, yeh you heard me I've listened, read and watched all versions of this masterpiece, and I'm here to tell you to go and do the same for Halloween. Also in case, you haven't heard MTX (the author of MDZ) has another show on its way TODAY! And that's the magnificent, the excellent and incredible Heaven's Official Blessing after marathoning MDZ do that too.

As always with my verdicts: we have ratings: From 1 to 5 (1 being least excited to watch, 5 being most,) how excited am I to delve into these again?

Country: China Genre: Danmei, Supernatural, Action, Fantasy, Romance, Comedy, BL, Horror,

1.The Book

We begin with the one that started it all. The reason for my devotion and love for this world, for Wei Wuxian and Lan Wang Ji. My heart hasn't stopped loving this book experience. And at first, it wasn't easy to understand all the logic and terms needed to know for this world of cultivation and sects and clans, and magical skills. But once I got the hang of it (maybe after reading it three times I wonder how I had time to do this by the way), this is a book that I keep on returning to, crying to, and just breaking down into a mess too. This book is the most original source for the love story of Wangxian and to be honest its a masterpiece. Now onto the pros and cons, I guess about this adaptation.

Pro:

First, I would say that this is the most non censored version of MDZ, meaning China couldn't mute the romance or delete scenes because it's the original written story. The romance between Wangxian stands out and makes your heart go through a lot of emotions, from frustration at Wei Wuxian not realising how he feels for Wang Ji, to pain because of Wang Ji's perceived unrequited feelings for so long, to happiness when they're just together, to confusion at some drunk scenes and then to all-out shock as the story reveals its self to the villains, the background of Weiying's death and more.

The introduction to all these characters, all of them have a role in the story, all of them are important to keep an eye on, and they all grow and develop throughout the story as we find out more about their circumstances and their own perspective on Wei Wuxian.

Cons but not actual cons

The book is longggggg. The first time I read it I wondered when we would finally get a resolution or hint that Wei Wuxian finally understands what he's been feeling for sooo long, but it took forever and to be honest even though this is a con to me, it also is a positive for those who love slowwwww burns, and slow reveal to the background and development of Wangxians feelings for each other. There are many missions although essential to the world-building and the actual plot/mystery that at first seem so useless and not needed, but they are there for a purpose, and they do help us find out more clues about what's been going on and why Wei Wuxian was brought back from the dead.

The book is the most non censored version of MDZ, and so there are many questionable moments/questions about Non-consent that occur during moments when Wangxian are drunk. Honestly, these scenes are so weird to me, because they hold so much truth and revelations to Wangji's feelings for Weiying. After all, he's drunk and the most authentic version of himself. There are so many moments (like stealing chickens or showing him the bunnies) that make you just want to cry at his love Weiying and the pain he had to endure when he thought he was never coming back. Still, at the same time, there are many moments where you're like oh wow that escalated, and you feel just a tad discomfort at the idea of the non-con. But like I said these scenes are required for these two to really like give into what they've both been trying to push away or ignore, and it's nice to see how Weiying reacts to his feelings becoming uncontrollable and more prominent.

There are some moments in the book where things seem vague or unexplained (which the other sources did their own thing with), some characters who are mentioned but not really given enough detail, some plot details where it's not fully understood. However, I do think that because the book is already so long, the most critical information needed was there and the reveal of the mysteries were all done well. I think though that it's better to see how it materialises visually hence the other media adaptations.

Ratings: 4/5 -It's not easy to pick up the book and read, but I have so much fun returning to it and laughing along with Wei Wuxian's thoughts and ideas about Wang Ji.

2.The Manhua

I was so shook when I found out MDZ has a manhua. Mostly because China wouldn't really make it easy for the book adaptation to be honestly portrayed visually. But the manga shocked me, it is censored, but the writers and the artists are all so obsessed with this book and this couple that despite having to remove or edit some scenes, they draw some additional scenes and post it online so that international fans can still get to see these moments visually. That is incredible, and I'm so grateful that we have a team of people who respect and love the piece as much as the fans do.

Pros:

With any graphic novel/manga the art of MDZ is fantastic to see, the characters are brought to life with colour and also the inclusion of chibi drawings to make a moment incredibly cute or funny. Weiying is very naughty, so a chibi drawing of him makes us see him like how he's acting a child. I enjoy the manhua of MDZ so much, and I love how they drew each of the characters and the world.

Cons but not really cons:

I think, however, there are better visual sources for MDZ available that is more detailed in terms of characters and includes more information about the world-building. The plot also has to be condensed as well because you can't draw everything from the book. The manhua is also still in the works so, its a very slow upload and it will take years for it to be completed. But this is understandable, and I can't wait to read the full completed copy. If you hate reading and can't stand words, I think the manhua version is for you!

Ratings: 3.5/5 -It’s the waiting that lowered the ratings for me and the fact that I prefer other sources but I’m so grateful for the manhua.

3.The Show

The one that brought international fans like swarms to this story. Untamed shocked all of us in the BL community as the first time we heard about it, sure it was nice to see that Yibo was cast as Wang Ji, but even then his acting wasn't that profound or praised so we didn't care, and Zhan also seemed like an interesting choice for out Weiying. I think there were an outrage and confusion when we heard this was going to be censored and a bromance. It felt like it made no sense because there's no way really to edit the relationship and love of Wangxian, so people went into the show resentful and worried. But after 20 episodes, the anger, worry and upset were erased. Untamed is a masterpiece, and it blows my mind how censored it is but still not really censored? It deletes the questionable moments in the book but adds the essential parts even where we get to see Wang Ji's feelings (Though obviously not mentioned as feelings but respect). We get to watch Weiying realise how much he cherishes whatever he has with Wang Ji and how much he misunderstood the latter, and how much Wang Ji cared for him. The show as Netflix says is not about just friends. Still, it emphasises the connection between these two using subtext clues and symbolisms, and visual metaphors to make sure the audience knows that these two are soulmates and are meant for each other. Here are the other pros and cons of the show:

Pros:

The acting is incredible, like so good and I can't think of two people who were more suited for Wangxian, Yibo shocked me as Wang Ji because although I knew him (because of Kpop), I didn't really think he would pull of stoic but still vulnerable Wang Ji. He was good at showing the emotions of love and longing that has been connected with Wang Ji. Zhan was an excellent Wuxian, he made me smile, he made laugh, he made me so happy because of his mischievous aura, but he also played serious and emotional and resentful Wuxian well as well. I keep crying every time I see the death scene in the show because it's just so done well.The directors and producers who didn't care about hiding the relationship between these two, they still wanted to be respectful to the writer and the source, and they still wanted to show as much as possible that these two loved each other. For that, I'm so grateful and they did a brilliant job with what they could. The character arcs and development and depth; Its the way they took the other characters from the book and fleshed them out giving each of them more depth, more understanding, more dimensionality and more story connecting to our plot, and it broke my heart how much I loved everyone in this show. The actors all performed so well, and some gave me goosebumps at how well they portrayed their characters (Xue Yang!!) like stunning and just a great cast.The storyline was also written in an innovative way, the flashbacks were first shown to the audience, how Wangxian became Wangxian and so the audience felt every single hurt and pain that Wang Ji was feeling. We understood why he acted the way he did. The flashbacks also provided plot structure to the mystery and the actual plot of the show, it left clues, and we watched the villains become villains (secretly), we saw how some characters grew. Each of the arcs in the book was told in a way that it flowed together and made sense. Due to this way of structuring the plot the show became so much more profound in the way it messed with our emotions, every death mattered, and every character had their own story and importance to the audience.

Cons:

The censorship. I've praised how they overcame it, but it's still there, the ending of the show was done this way because of censorship and to be honest I still think everyone should read the book because there are moments where the romance of Wangxian is fun and memorable to see (the confession scene whilst it was done okay in the show because of censorship it doesn't hold as much oomph as it did in the book. Mainly because the events that happened before it was already so filled with angst and drama and the results of the confession Wangxian clinging onto each other despite being in danger is a must-see, the censorship is annoying because it shouldn't be there, it's something that whilst it did help with some stuff, it still feels like an insult to the piece, and it still doesn't sit well with me that China censors their BL. So its a con.

Ratings 5/5 I think I could spend so much time breaking down why Untamed is a masterpiece BL show, but all I can say is despite 50 episodes (longgg) it is worth the time and effort and if you watch BL, go see it.

4.The Audio

The audio for the MDZ is like my favourite thing in the world. I love Chinese audiobook dramas; it's an incredible experience to listen to. With MDZ, this is what the show would be if it wasn't censored. The actors for the audio drama are amazing, and I love them so much. The audio drama is three seasons with some extra scenes and it's incredible if you don't want to read the book, then just watch and listen to the audio drama because its the same story but its brought to life by the acting and storytelling. Also though there are some scenes removed, I think the audio drama is the next uncensored gem of MDZ that shows Wangxian's romance the best way possible. I squeal, and I laugh, and again I cry at every single moment; their first kiss, the inn scene, the confession (i spend time pausing it just to cry at how good it is) and more. I just love it, and I prefer it to reading the book. Other pros and cons:

Pros:

The story is structured and told properly, follows all the arcs and events in the book and brings them life by voice acting, and the music is incredible. It's nice to listen to and hear Weiying's thoughts and to also listen to an audible version of the book. The audio drama has all the pros from the book as well.

Cons:

Nothing much to say about the cons. It is not easy to attain the audio drama in English subs, its hard to download and store it, but once you overcome that it's great. I think the audio drama is the most difficult to obtain.

Ratings: My favourite adaptation 5/5

5.The Donghua

Lastly, we have the Donghua or the anime version of MDZ. What can I say about this, its brilliant, masterpiece, it's gorgeous. If you think the art for the manhua is good, the donghua takes it to a different level. The visuals are stunning, the animation is breath-taking, and the story is again following Untamed ways of censoring the story but making sure it doesn't remove the romantic connotations and symbolism to Wangxian. The donghua also follows Untameds way of starting with flashbacks to explain what happened to Weiying before it started. I have nothing else to say about how great this is. It's the same thing I've been saying about all these adaptations. The donghua though is the best visual masterpiece for MDZ, in my opinion.

Pros;

Packed full with symbolism and clues to the plot, it's detailed so well for the storyline and its an excellent way to tell this story. The music and ost for the donghua are also beautiful and gets me emotional each time I hear it.

Cons:

Censorship. That's it, that's what it always is. For me, I think the donghua is the most censored version of MDZ? Or maybe I just feel that way despite the subtext clues; I do feel irritated at the censorship in the donghua. Let's pray Heaven's official blessing overcomes that.

Ratings: 3.8/5 - I love it so much because of the visuals but apart from that I prefer other sources for MDZ. Still the best donghua that exists.

So here you have in an in-depth and messy conversation about one of my favourite media pieces to existing right now in BL. I think I will never stop singing praises at MXT for creating this story and I think there's nothing else I rather do than just spend times when I need a distraction watching, listening or reading this story again and again. What about you all. What do you feel about MDZ? What pros and cons do you have for each adaptation? Which is your favourite. And have you been able to get any rest when we know that Heaven's official blessing is out TODAY!! Let me know your thoughts. Happy Halloween, Enjoy it.

#mo dao zu shi #the untamed #mdzs #wrpup #FVete #october #halloween #wei ying #wei wuxain #lan wangji #mdzs donghua #wwx #lwj #chen qing ling #cql #bl series #danmei

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merinnan · 3 years

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Fic Tag Game

Grabbed from @hils79, because it looked like fun.

Name: Merinnan, which I’ve gone by for... fifteen years now, I think? Prior to that, I mostly used Calicia (and sometimes Zoi).

Fandoms: Like Hils, I’m only going to list the fandoms I’ve actually written fic for.

Star Trek: My very first fandom, and the one I’ve written the most fics for (so far - I suspect that DMBJ will overtake it. It certainly already has in terms of word count). I was (and am still) primarily a DS9 fan, and was a huge Kira/Dukat and Garak/Bashir shipper back in the day. Most of my Trekfics are DS9 fics, but I also dabbled a little bit in TOS and TNG, and had one or two crackfic crossovers that involved Voyager characters. Discovery has tempted me with a few fic ideas, but I haven’t written anything for it yet.

Bishoujo Senshi Sailormoon: aka, the show that first had me seriously questioning my sexuality. Look, Haruka and Michiru are #goals, don’t judge me. This is also where my Zoi name came from, after the first season villain Zoisite, whom I cosplayed several times. Unsurprisingly, my main ships are HaruMichi and KunZoi. Despite this fact, neither of my published Sailormoon fics are HaruMichi.

Bubblegum Crisis Tokyo 2040: A short-lived fandom, but one I still liked enough to write a fic for and get the OST CD.

World of Warcraft: I wouldn’t say I’m really part of the fandom, per se, but I’ve been playing since the dying days of Burning Crusade, am a huge lore nerd, and started writing a crossover fic that is currently on indefinite hiatus. I do plan to come back and finish it, but first RL got in the way, and now I have to try and remember where I’d actually been planning to go with it.

A Court of Thorns and Roses: That crossover fic I just mentioned? Yeah, this is what it’s a crossover with. ACoTaR fandom went sleepy for awhile, but it’s back up and kicking now that A Court of Silver Flames is out - if any of you are still following me, it’s great to see everyone active again! To the surprise of no-one who knows me, I’m a big Nessian shipper.

Mo Dao Zu Shi / Chen Qing Ling / The Untamed: I came to this fandom via ACoTaR, actually, after a certain person (hi, @rhysand-vs-fenrys!) wouldn’t stop gushing about it :-) This is the fandom that really and seriously got me back into regular fic writing again after 15-ish years. I’m a multishipper here, and have written / am writing WangXian, NieLan, XiCheng, XuanLi, and XiSang.

Guardian / Zhen Hun: MDZS fandom led me to Guardian, which, along with DMBJ, has devoured my life in a way that hasn’t happened since my Star Trek days, and I love it! WeiLan is my major ship, but I’m also quite fond of the DaMian life raft.

Zhu Yilong: Yes, I’m going to list a person as a fandom. Zhu Yilong is one of the stars of Guardian, and is both incredibly pretty and an incredibly talented actor. So much so that I have suffered through some truly terrible dramas just to watch him in them. I do not write Z1L-fic, since RPF of living people is a personal squick of mine, but I am working on a massive crossover fic of most of his characters.

Mo Du: Guardian led me along to more of Priest’s works, such as Mo Du, which is now officially my favourite book, and I adore the main WenZhou ship. The Mo Du fandom right now is pretty tiny, and I’m still working on my first fic for it, but I hope that it will grow with the donghua due out this year, and the drama having just started filming.

Daomu Biji / The Lost Tomb: I initially came into this fandom because of Zhu Yilong, who played Wu Xie in the Reboot / Reunion / Chongqi drama, and then I got sucked into the fandom pit of all of the books and dramas and spinoffs, and it’s wonderful and fantastic. I have written so much for it, and have so much more planned. PingXie and PingXieSang are my main ships here, but I’m also a HeiHua fan, and very much enjoying the RiSang pool noodle that @kholran created.

Tropes: Hurt/Comfort and crack are my major ones.

Fic I spent most time on: A toss-up between Endings and Beginnings and Reunion, both DS9 fics. Endings and Beginnings is an alternate ending to the show, while Reunion is a Gul Dukat-centric fic set around, oh, season 5ish? Both were written for and initially published in print fanzines, so in addition to time spent writing, there was a lot of back and forth for editing, etc.

Favourite fic(s) you’ve written: Look, I honestly couldn’t say. I like most of the fics I’ve written, and there are several that I’m really proud of and really like.

Fic I spent least time on: Silent Graves, a super angsty DMBJ/Lost Tomb Xiaoge fic. I think I wrote it in like 15 minutes.

Longest fic: Cat’s Paw, a DMBJ/Lost Tomb PingXieSang canon rewrite fic I co-wrote with @xantissa, at 247 826 words. For fics written by just me, not with a co-writer, then that would be Nevermore, my WIP MDZS/CQL XiCheng Pacific Rim AU, at 22 276 words and counting.

Shortest fic: Every entry in my DS9 Drabbles series, with each one at exactly 100 words. Although if you count them as a quintdrabble, then Indiscretion (a DS9 missing scene vignette about Gul Dukat, set during the episode of the same name) at 169 words.

Most hits/kudos/comments/bookmarks/subscriptions: The answer to all of these is either Cat’s Paw or Nevermore, so I’m going to give the next highest.

Hits: Those who fear darkness have never seen what light can do, a DMBJ/Lost Tomb PingXie supernatural AU fic co-written with xantissa.

Since this fic also takes the highest kudos, bookmarks, and subscriptions after Cat’s Paw/Nevermore, I’ll skip to the next fic along on each of those.

Kudos: Stars fall like diamonds, a DMBJ/Lost Tomb PingXie missing scene fic from Reboot/Reunion/Chongqi.

Bookmarks: A Knight in Bloody Armour, another DMBJ/Lost Tomb PingXieSang supernatural AU fic (but a different supernatural AU) co-written with xantissa.

Comments: Ears and Other Related Calamities, yet another DMBJ/Lost Tomb PingXieSang supernatural AU fic (of a different again supernatural AU) co-written with xantissa.

Subscriptions: The Rescue Job, a Guardian WeiLan Leverage AU, currently at one chapter complete and posted out of a planned five chapters.

Fic you want to rewrite/expand on: We have plans for a prequel and a sequel to A Knight in Bloody Armour, and a spinoff fic for The Zhang Identity (a DMBJ/Lost Tomb PingXie AU that is complete but not yet posted. It will be posted in April as part of the Small Fandoms Big Bang).

Share a bit of a WIP: This is from an as-yet-unnamed post-canon fix-it fic for the Guardian drama:

It was hurting again. Zhao Yunlan curled up into a tight ball under the hospital blankets, trying to ignore it enough to try to get back to sleep. He knew it wouldn't work, because he couldn't remember a time when it ever did, but it was always worth a shot, right? He squeezed his eyes shut and held himself tightly for a few...moments? Minutes?...before grabbing his stuffed cat and clutching it while he forced himself to breathe deep, slow breaths the way the doctors back in Spring City had taught him.

Eventually, the pain died back down to its usual dull ache, the one that was bearable and let him play, and watch TV, and do school lessons with his mother. One day, she said, they'd find a doctor who knew what was wrong, why he hurt all the time, and the doctor would give him medicine that would keep the worst pain away so that he could go to an actual school and meet more kids than the ones who lived in their apartment block or who frequented the same playground that he liked to go to.

Zhao Yunlan tried closing his eyes again, seeing if he could go back to sleep, but he was far too awake now. He sighed, sitting up in bed and looking around the room. Again. It was just like the hospital rooms in Spring City, and in Kiyota City. He figured that if the doctors here in Tomorrow Mountains couldn't help, his parents would take him to yet another city, and the hospital rooms there would probably look the same, too.

Then, over the faint beeping of hospital equipment, and the quiet murmurs further down the corridor of nurses at the nurse station or seeing to other patients, he heard a soft sniffling sound, like someone was trying not to cry too loudly. He picked up his stuffed cat and looked at it.

"What do you think, Dead Cat?" he asked it. "Should we go and find them?"

Dead Cat didn't answer, of course, but that didn't stop Zhao Yunlan from assuming that it agreed with him, and slipping out of bed. His feet touched the cold tile floor with barely a sound, and, still holding Dead Cat tightly, Zhao Yunlan padded over to the door. He looked up and down the corridor, then left his room to track down the sniffling noise.

He wasn't surprised that it came from the next room. He was surprised that it came from another kid, a boy who looked to be about his age, huddled in bed and wiping his eyes.

"Hi," Zhao Yunlan whispered. The other boy looked up in surprise, then stopped to clutch his chest as he began to cough. Once he'd finished coughing, Zhao Yunlan and Dead Cat were perched on the end of his bed.

"I'm Zhao Yunlan, and this is Dead Cat." He held up Dead Cat, moving one of the paws to wave hello. "What's your name?"

The boy wiped his eyes again. "Shen Ye."

I tag: ALL OF YOU! Are you a writer who hasn’t done this yet? Consider yourself tagged if you want to be.

#fanfic meme #dmbj #daomu biji #guardian #mo du #star trek #ds9 #bishoujo senshi sailor moon #sailor moon #mdzs #cql #acotar #bubblegum crisis #world of warcraft #zhu yilong

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