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ashanimus · 1 year

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On Hunter's Fighting Style and Eclipse Lake

So: Hunter and fighting. Thank you @carpisuns for enabling me.

What he does is he sets up a guard position, and immediately tries to move to an enemy’s blind spot. He would have learned that to compensate around a casting opponent before he had magic--his only hope without a magical staff would be “defend defend defend” and get close enough to break their guard. The goal is a decisive blow to the head or neck to end combat. The priority is staying up because if he’s pinned or disarmed, he’s screwed.

The ability to teleport means that he starts in a strong defensive position and basically gets a sneak attack, rinse/repeat/adapt. Generally speaking he has to end fights as fast as possible, and given that he trained without magic his whole strategy is built around DEFEND first, decisive strike, DEFLECT magical force (a stick can't hope to counter it without magic). We also see a little bit of this implied training with his parkour abilities. Without the ability to fly, or the ability to summon plants to carry him to his destination, he would've had to learn all of this physically. Let's dig into some of the details of how this separates Hunter from most of his opponents. Let's talk about FIGHTING!

Most witches take their magic purely for granted. Because of this, it is likely uncommon for people to turn their own bodies into extremely efficient machines like how martial artists or athletes are required to. In their own way, these skills are generally probably pretty impressive to the average witch outside of combat — and within it they're surprising at least for the first few seconds. And in combat, seconds are really what matter. Most actual fights are over in less than 10. And one of the things that separates a trained fighter from a casual brawler or the average person defending themselves is the conditioning it takes to actually respond in time.

Most people don't respond to fight stimuli by fighting. Most people go into freeze or flight. When it comes to serious fight training, one of the first things that happens is called conditioning. For sports that means getting the body into a particular kind of well, condition — but for combat the conditioning is also mental. If you've seen stereotypes of things like Army boot camp where the drill sergeant is yelling at people and slinging abuse constantly, that's actually part of it. I am reliably told they try not to do this as much anymore. But if you're doing something like Krav Maga which is more or less brutal streetfighting but formalized in a dojo environment that is absolutely part of the training (or at least, it was part of mine!).

Specifically, when you're learning the throw punch or doing a series of them, what they will have us do is scream and swear at our opponents (and they will sometimes scream and swear at us during spars or drills) in order to condition our minds as well as our bodies for the ugliness of an actual violent confrontation. Yelling, intimidation, insults, swears those are all part of the human "puff up and look big" thing. The other thing about conditioning in this way is the instructor teaching someone how to be hit and actually hit back. As I said before, most people tend to sink into freeze or flight. The average person who has not been trained needs to be hit an average of six times before they're able to summon up the nerve to strike back. By then, the confrontation is almost always over.

The reason I outline all of this is because it highlights the conditioning gulf between Hunter and the others, as well as trying to explain how he’d be approaching most enemies and WHY. Speed and dexterity is obviously critical, but the approach matters immensely as well.

This is especially true when you have a combatant like Hunter who is starting from a punishing disadvantage against the vast majority of his casting opponents. Without magic, the only weapon he has is his body. When you train on a weapon, that weapon becomes an extension of your body. As such, a critical part of this kind of training is gaining an awareness of the body in order to hone in mind-to-muscle control. Martial artists, dancers, etc have a scary amount of precise control in this way, not that much different than an excellent musician who understands their hands and the intimate ins and outs of their instrument. Developing awareness, control and practice is what creates reliable muscle memory. This more than anything is Hunter’s (and any martial artists tbh) superpower.

Witch's magic is shown to be driven by emotions, thoughts and feelings.

This gives them the benefit of reflexes helping them out in the face of sudden danger, but nobody is invulnerable to the sudden appearance of somebody inside their personal bubble hitting them in the temple with a really big stick. If Hunter is on target and playing for keeps the confrontations is over, witches duel: won. Even without magic.

Once Hunter has access to magic, his muscle memory is the same, with added oomph and a battle style combat-ready witches would be baffled by. Brawlers would be exceedingly rare on the BI except for niche sports and probably those highly unusual witches and demons who practice a form of magical martial arts. One or more of these unusual individuals would have helped train him (someone had to and Belos seems like he’d move like a broken ikea chair on his best day when he’s not a bone-rotted goop monster). Likely more. Hunter was obviously not allowed to get close to any teachers (I would expect that they were under strict orders to stay distant or otherwise motivated).

So most of this is context to kind of the depth I saw and how Hunter's fighting movements are animated, but now let me go into how his actual personality and emotional conflicts affect his ability to fight.

Over the course of the show, we can see a pretty direct correlation of his emotional state and priorities to his efficacy and fight. Basically, when his goal is directly aligned with how he feels about it, he’s very good. But when those things have conflict, his effectiveness goes down. When we first meet him as the GG, he is very intimidating and using heavy amounts of magic from the staff Belos gave him. He rolls easily through his first encounter with Luz, etc etc. And even though neither Eda or Luz are capable of putting up too much of a fight, he's goofing around for the entirety of that encounter, you can hear the smile even while he's dodging — and it's one of easy confidence. He can trust his body to do most of that pretty much automatically which frees him up to pontificate.

Against Kikimora he was effective because despite the fact he was self-sabotaging his mission, it was within his moral alignment. He was defending himself, but Luz had moved him, and he protected her. Protecting, generally speaking, his Hunter’s preference and his entire fighting style is based mostly on defensive forms. And being by nature a gentle person, defense feels better — especially when he knew Luz was doing the right thing in protecting the Palismen. It was one of the instances that we see where his intelligence was able to overcome his brainwashing long enough to act on it, and the Avenue was Luz's respect and kindness. That being said, fighting Kikimora was more of a struggle or at the very least a more even contest. Even debilitated by the sleeping nettles, Kikimora was not a pushover and he did end up letting his guard down pretty significantly and that she did get the first hit on him, distracted as he was by his emotional moment with Luz. The giving of the name was an explicit show of vulnerability that was immediately exploited by an opponent who if she had aimed slightly to the left would've caved his skull in.

Now, Eclipse Lake is a little more interesting. There were a ton of factors that led to him fighting to a standstill with Amity. I wouldn't really call it a loss either, but I'll get into that in just a second.

Hunter is at this point fueled by anxiety. He started the entire endeavor by deliberately disobeying a direct order from the mouth of the Emperor to try and make up for a recent failure that Belos has let Hunter believe is affecting his favor. Already that's an unbelievably emotional place with incredibly high stakes. At this point, we're well aware of the fact that Belos treats Hunter brutally. The best case scenario for returning empty-handed after disobeying a direct order is a beating that would probably leave him with more scars than he started, but what Hunter actually fears is being replaced. While at this stage he doesn't regard his life as something that necessarily belongs to him, but the successful outcome of this might as well be life-and-death.

Deliberately disobeying the Emperor does actually have a material impact on how Hunter arrives at the Knee. Because this is a stealth mission, he wasn’t able to bring his mechanical staff--the thing that would give him away to Kikimora. Flapjack had not fully become his palisman yet. Which means that Hunter hiked up that mountain after Kikimora and her party, navigating waist deep snow knowing that if he was caught she would kill him. He also knows that she is currently surrounded by her partisans, and it is super unlikely that any of them would stick up for him in a way that would put them at odds with her. With no support, no ability to take a break and probably no rations he was probably pretty hungry, tired and dehydrated by the time Eda and Amity had made it up there. And they had the benefit of being able to fly. That's one thing I don't see people talking about enough when it comes to considering the relative strength of Amity and Hunter. The little rag-eared bastard had already had a very very long and physically arduous and miserable day, maybe even more than one!.

He also bit off more than he could reasonably chew with those disadvantages in mind. He only has to make one mistake and he’s toast. He didn’t account for Flapjack dragging him to Eda and Amity’s feet. As far as he knew, they could have really hurt him, or left him--having no guarantee or even expectation of Flapjack’s assistance. But none of this changes the fact that Hunter spends the next couple of hours tied up. Amity wasn't gentle (why would she be?). We see him rubbing his wrists and stretching his shoulders out once he is free.

Cartoons often don't make anything of this gesture, but the truth of it is this: if you been bound for any length of time, especially in the position that Hunter was, what it does is it yanks on your shoulders, your chest, it hurts the hell out of your elbows and you lose feeling in your hands. The minute you’re released, all the blood goes back into those areas and it hurts like hell. IT REALLY HURTS. And you're stiff.

Which finally brings us back to the actual confrontation between Amity and Hunter. Hunter has experienced incredible emotional highs and lows over the course of this journey. There were probably at least three or four times where he was almost killed. He is tired as hell, frozen stiff, probably in pain, almost certainly hasn't eaten or had anything to drink for a very inappropriate amount of time and he has no weapon. He's also on the brink of despair and crackup. And his mission? At this point, he’s staring down the barrel of guaranteed failure. When Amity is talking to him and trying to comfort him, he is so up a creek that for a moment he actually is hearing what she has to say. Given the depth of his devotion to Belos at this point that is saying a lot about how he feels about his prospects at the moment.

So when he sees the key, he attacks her out of desperation. Pure emotion. He has to at least try. There is no scenario where an unarmed combatant can wrestle the armed abomination prodigy with auxiliary support. Then Flapjack joins the fight, and that changes everything. You can see it in how his expression changes once he takes what's offered: magical aid. Suddenly he has a fighting chance. A fighting chance.

However, he is now using a weapon he's never used before — and I think that has a huge impact on how that fight went. Palismen are shown to respond to their wielder's thoughts. Later, in ASIAS, we can even see Flapjack responding to Hunter's mind when he's doing all the staff tricks to impress the students. This leads me to believe that wielding a Palisman staff is less like swinging an inert stick and more like moving a limb. And when your entire fighting style depends on knowing exactly where your own center of mass is at absolutely all times, that would change Hunter's balance, and throw his timing and physicality off.

All things considered, given the unbelievable disadvantage that Hunter started with, I kind of wish the fandom gave him more credit. With his emotions in absolute tatters in addition to being a physical disaster and using a new weapon, he is absolutely at his worst here! Amity is fighting from a position of knowing she has backup coming in addition to the backup she already has in King. Even then, she's fighting to get away from him. And Hunter, in addition to using a new tool and all of the aforementioned problems is going full out on the attack-- which is very contrary to how he prefers to fight. When you go this feral into a combat, the emotional place itself is a disadvantage.

And even after all that? Amity didn't beat him. They fought to a standstill.

She has a blade to his throat, he had Flapjack on her hand. With Flapjack in his possession, if for any reason she tried to open his throat he would still have the option of flash stepping away. She might have cut his neck enough to bleed, but not enough to kill him instantly. In holding the way she did, she missed her chance at a fatal opening (and she's never killed anyone before. Interpretation is out for Hunter, I generally don't headcannon him as ever having killed directly with his own hands although I do think he's done some real damage).

He says to her, "Listen. You're strong, and I'm tired. If this continues, you'll probably escape. But here's the thing: we know where to find you--and your human."

The first part of that statement has way less to do with Amity's training or skill as an equal to Hunter's (she clearly has a little, but if you're as good as Hunter is at his age, you would've started at around three years old and that probably was not the case for Amity), and more a statement of the fact that Hunter is actually physically exhausted and there is the slight possibility that Amity might be able to outlast him in terms of endurance. But what I think is a lot more pertinent is the reality that Hunter has an incredibly small window of time to achieve victory before Eda the HARPY OWL LADY comes flying through that tunnel to beat his already exhausted ass.

He also says: "If this CONTINUES". And he even says probably. He's incredibly fucking tough at least in terms of what he's capable of enduring before he falls down and can't get up.

If Eda did come through to help Amity, the best case scenario for Hunter at that point is they leave him senseless or in too rough of a shape to escape from Kikimora. Kikimora openly despises him, is extremely petty/cruel, and is surrounded by her own partisans (who have demonstrable willingness to murder teenagers!). She screeched about how excited she was about exacting revenge (and unbeknownst to Hunter she absolutely knows how disposable he is in the grand scheme of things!).

She’s a lot more interested in Hunter’s blood than Titan’s blood at the moment. Hunter would die BADLY and slowly at her little claws if she got him.

So he tries a last-ditch measure by leveling a threat Amity that he couldn’t hope to carry out even if he wanted to. It's ironic that the only reason that they were both able to achieve a partial victory here is because Hunter was able to effectively empathize with her enough to see his own vulnerability in her and squeeze it.

To all that stuff about how his emotions affect his ability to battle, if we look at what happened on the day of unity, at that stage he was still unable to confront his abuser and would-be murderer. He did not strike Belos once, and spent the whole time playing defense on behalf of his friends, taking up a defensive position and otherwise moving them out of harm's way. He's in the process of actively dying and his right (dominant) arm is paralyzed, so his form is pretty crap but this speaks to his iron will to stay breathing for as long as he can. And he's lasted a lot longer than the most affected adults. The lack of a bile sac probably comes into it a bit...but it's not the only factor here.

So yeah! I hope that this provides a little bit more nuance to the conversation! And again, thank you to the animators and storyboarders for taking such time and care for portraying Hunter’s fighting with respect to his personality and arc.

For anyone interested in my meta and analysis, please check out the "ash's owl house meta" tag on this blog and/or follow @idlescree for my video essays! We have more in the works coming soon :)

Tags for those who requested tags!

@skyelights-xox @rainbowangel110 @bookworm010307

#the owl house #toh #toh hunter #hunter noceda #amity blight #the owl house meta #the owl house analysis #ash's owl house meta #idlescree

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novelist-becca · 3 months

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On this episode of “I noticed another Thing”

I was talking to some people on discord when we noticed the owl beast and snakes on the sign for the University of Wild Magic. And it got me thinking.

The owl beast (circled in green) is there because Eda made peace with her curse.

The crowns (circled in blue) obviously symbolize King. As does the banner and many badges the staff/faculty wear.

But I never noticed the snakes (circled in purple) on the sign. I’m guessing it’s a symbol of Luz, because I can’t think of any other snake connection than her palisman.

Case in point, the whole owl family is part of the wild magic uni whether the people like it or not.

#the owl house #toh #owl house #toh spoilers #the owl house spoilers #eda clawthorne #luz noceda #king clawthorne #owl family #analysis #toh analysis #the owl house analysis

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royal-they · 2 years

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I feel like a lot of people misread Willow as being the mentally stable friend.

She’s not, she just puts up a good front. Her goals aren’t about her. She doesn't consider her own emotions. Everything's about others.

Willow is someone who tries her best to appear put together and stable on the outside. She won’t let you see her crack. Because to her her friends are 1000x more important. Many witches state a goal that involves their career or deepest wish for themselves when they chose a palisman or make one. Willow doesn’t, and she’s one of the few we’ve seen who makes this choice. She doesn’t want to be strong to help herself gain power, she wants power to protect those close to her.

Willow isn’t one to let her emotions get the better of her. But when they do she breaks. She can’t put up with all the pressure, she has a breaking point. And this breaking point usually stems from this insecurity of her not being good enough. She needs to be good enough for others. And she is. But she’s not good enough for herself.

Willows an amazing friend but she’s in no way less mentally ill then anyone else. She is unsure of herself and always needs to prove herself to others. It’s not quite as obvious as it is with Hunter; he’s always running around trying to prove his worth and having panic attacks because of it. But it’s still there, she just does a good job of keeping it all inside.

With Hunter we see this aspect of him a lot. It’s a huge plot point in Eclipse Lake. He’s scared of rejection from Belos. He’s scared of being replaced. He’s scared of not having a place in the world. He puts the needs of others over his own constantly. But Hunter can’t put up a front like Willow can. The only time we get to really explore Willows insecurity's properly is when we literally are seeing inside her head. The episodes literally called Understanding Willow for crying out loud:

As someone who was bullied mercilessly for years when I was the age Willow is in this memory I really understand this whole episode on a very personal level. The things people said to Willow got to her. Her inner self says she’s just “finishing what (Amity) started.” Even when she heals her relationship with Amity she still has moments of insecurity. She calls herself, “half-a-witch.” She gets mad when Amity trys to protect her. She gets upset when she is captured by someone she trusted. All these things resurface old familiar emotions for her.

Willow has been trying her whole life to help people and for so long it didn’t work out. Amity calls her a “weakling.” She vows to be a powerful witch. Amity tells her she causes problems. Willow says she is going to protect everyone she loves. Amity rejects Willows friendship and picks on her.

Willow is scared of rejection.

Scared of disappointing people.

She is upset when Amity replaces her with new friends and lets them pick on her.

She can’t deal with any of these emotions - similarly to Hunter - so she combats it by constantly comforting and prioritizing others.

Willows incredibly powerful and strong. And amazing friend and a force not to be taken lightly.

But in no way is she over these deep rooted anxiety's of losing her friends, not being able to protect people, or being a nuisance and a problem.

I really want this to be an aspect of her that is focused on sometime in the future, because its a problem she has that is never really solved.

She’s not completely indestructible.

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they-call-me-haiku · 1 year

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i don't know if this has already been talked about before, but i just wanted to point out something interesting i noticed in TOH

see them? see how their eyes have that little glint? all the characters in this show have that reflection of light in their eyes.

except for Belos.

his eyes area very dull shade of sky blue and it does not reflect light. it doesn't have that glint.

his eyes look lifeless, cold and raw. even when his face shows expressions, his eyes are completely devoid of emotion.

even in frames where there's light shining at his face, and there should realistically be a reflection. there isn't.

and guess what. he had the glint, like the other characters, when he was still Philip. when he had just come to the boiling isles and hadn't become a false prophet, tyrant or an abuser yet.

he was still a terrible person back then but i'll bet that he had some ounce of empathy at the time. but not anymore. Belos is now completely inhumane. he has no empathy, no regret or remorse, he does not care what he has to sacrifice or what he already sacrificed, he does not care for the well-being of anyone, not even himself.

you can't even describe him as self-serving because the man is willing to destroy his entire body and turn into a gooey bone monster, if it means accomplishing his goal.

all that matters to him now are his flawed ideals that he so stubbornly refuses to change. he traded his body, soul and his ability to relate to and connect with others, all for a chance at fulfilling a dream that was never worth it.

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chriscdcase95 · 2 years

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Someone in The Owl House fandom: “Wait, so homo/trans phobia and racism isn’t a thing on the Boiling Isles ? How does that happen when they have a literal puritan tyrant ruling over them for fifty years ?”

Me: “Well...it makes sense from a backwards sort of way.

Yes, Belos/Philip Wittebane is a puritan, and given the time and culture he grew up, no doubt having those prejudices and biases ingrained into his mind. It’s just he was thrust into a world full of demons, witches and magic. It’s a world full of what he sees as sin and evil, and a world he intends to destroy.

If Philip were a Calvinist, he would probably see the Boiling Isles as an example of total depravity. Sure, he could try to impose his religious, puritanical beliefs onto the Boiling Isles populations...but that would risk converting them to Christianity and (by his standards and beliefs) saving them.

But Philip doesn’t want that. He wants them to burn. Let them practice witchcraft. Let them (literally) Be Gay and Do Crimes. Let the populations wallow in what he sees as depravity and sin, it’s just more fuel for the fire he plans to light. As far as Philip is concerned, he’s the only pure thing in this world.

In Philip’s eyes, his place in the place is all but assured; he will be like God’s favorite and most perfect angel.

Philip will ascend to heaven; Philip will raise his throne above the stars of God; Philip will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. Philip will ascend above the tops of the clouds; Philip will make himself like the Most High; while the Boiling Isles will be brought down to the pit, to the realm of the dead.

Which makes the irony all the more delicious; since Amphibia and The Owl House’s shared universe is all but confirmed, the actual god of that universe picked Anne Boonchuy as it’s heir (which on another level would have shot Philip’s religious beliefs in the foot) - someone that a person like Philip would associate with Luz, and other such sinners.

As for racism ? Well, there was a whole second part of this essay that would have covered what racist believes Philip could/would of had, but it felt like that was opening a whole different can of worms. The short of it is, while Phillip could have held racist views of his time, it would have more to do with ones “breeding” than actual skin color. But in the Boling Isles, such a thing it wouldn’t matter; a POC Witch is a witch all the same to Philip.

Besides, and while I did wonder if his Coven System would count as a form of segregation, but I came to the conclusion that it’s more of a classism thing. And as we see with the Blights, classism is a form of bigotry on the Boiling Isles.”

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selenestarmoon · 1 year

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The Collector: Another Victim of Belos' Abuse

We know that Belos is a abuser in every sense of the word and that although he has abused all of the Boiling Islands as a whole, his favorite targets are children, he focuses on children because they are much easier to manipulate and isolate.

Belos has abused children before: we saw it with Hunter and the other grimwalkers,

he wanted to do it with Luz

but what many forget is the fact that Collector is a child and was also abused by Belos.

While Belos may not directly physically abuse Collector, there are many ways to groom, manipulate, and abuse a child that do not involve physical contact at all.

In this post, I mentioned how abandonment and isolation had affected Collector and he was desperate for any kind of company and to be free and Phillip took advantage of that, promising to free him if he taught him magic and the draining spell in return. This made Collector easy prey for Belos as even though he finally had company, Collector was still isolated as the only one he could see and interact with was Belos.

Belos controls everything in his life: who he sees, who he talks to, when he can talk, when he can even experience something about the world.

Also, from the way we saw their interactions, Collector genuinely believed that Belos was his friend, he taught Belos powerful magic and draining spell without hesitation because he believed that Belos wanted to be his friend even when he started to doubt him at the end. Collector still considers Belos his friend and decided to trust him and was willing to keep his promise to help him first while Belos only manipulated him and isolated him, he could barely stand it as he was about to hit him when he told him that the human world had changed or that when Collector complains to Belos for not fulfilling his part and he only covers him with a blanket and throws him off the bridge.

Collector's trust towards Belos is bolstered by the fact that he is the only one Collector has interacted with for 400 YEARS since his imprisonment as Belos keeps him hidden and has not interacted with anyone else to the point that no one knows about his existence, Kikimora only knew that Collector existed because she was eavesdropping on Belos and Luz and Hunter only found out about Collector's existence by seeing Belos' memories but if it hadn't been for those facts neither Kikimora nor Luz nor Hunter would know that Collector exists. This is an abuse tactic in which the abuser keeps the victim isolated so that the latter completely depends and trusts only the former, this isolation tactic was also used by Belos with Hunter and the other grimwalkers.

Many comment on how Collector dismisses grimwalkers as objects that Belos creates to destroy them and how Collector sees the hunting of Titans, the lives of others and the destruction as a game making him look cruel but contrary to what everyone believes, Collector is not cruel out of malice but for this:

What Sundowner means by this is that children do cruel things not out of malice but because they simply have no morality in the beginning so they don't know right from wrong until someone teaches them and if no one teaches a kid that what is right and what is wrong, the kid will simply do horrible things because they believe that it is normal or that they are right and if a kid is surrounded by adults who do bad things and/or teach them to do horrible things as a good thing, the kid will simply imitate them because it's all they know. Basically kids do bad things because in their own innocence they don't know they are doing something bad in the first place.

The Collector is a kid and kids mimic the adults around them. We know that the other collectors preserve life by force and kill anyone who opposes them

and Collector isn't interested in doing the same as the other collectors and he just wanted to play and have friends

but he imitated the other collectors way of acting because they were the only adults he had and therefore they were the only thing he knew. After the war between his kind and the Titans, and by extension his imprisonment which was for an incredibly long time, the only adult in the Collector's life has been Belos, who is a person who has done a LOT of horrible things, so even putting aside the fact that they have unbelievable cosmic powers over reality itself, of COURSE he have no concept of the value or life or the suffering of others, of COURSE he sees people as toys, that's what's been modeled for him by the literal los only adults in his life at all for hundreds of years!

Collector is literally a kid with a lot of power in his hands who was surrounded by adults but all of them did horrible things and none of them bothered to show him that what he was doing was wrong because they didn't care about Collector as a person but only about his power and/or get some benefit out of it, this is clearly isolation, exploitation and neglect and all of these are forms of abuse.

This is even seen with King because despite the fact that, unlike the other collectors, titan trappers and Belos, he only wanted Collector to use his powers to save his friends but that doesn't take away from the fact that he used him and that he didn't care about Collector as person and only released him by his power. All these cases make Collector probably believe that it is normal to hurt others, lie and that friendships are utilitarian and friends always betray each other when in fact friendships aren't forged by the use that people have nor are they something that is forced on others but are forged for the love, respect and trust that exists between people. However, unlike the other collectors, titan trappers and Belos, King recognizes that Collector is still a child and that he is afraid of being alone and wishes to talk to him.

Little by little with the help of King and other people and healthy relationships that Collector builds, Collector will learn to distinguish between good and evil and that not everyone wants him for his power, but rather for who he is, Collector will gradually learn what a true friendship and/or healthy relationship is like, and with this Collector will grow as a person, learning to have a moral and emotional maturity by having people who love him for who he is and not for what he can do.

#the owl house #the owl house spoilers #the owl house meta #the owl house analysis #toh #toh spoilers #toh meta #toh analysis #the collector #toh the collector #the owl house collector #philip wittebane #emperor belos

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bubomicronus · 1 year

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Is it just me, or have the Clawthornes come full circle?

Lemme explain.

It's been highly theorised that Caleb Wittebane and Evelyn Clawthorne ended up together.

Hunter is a clone of Caleb and from the final scenes it looks like he's working with Del Clawthorne carving palismen.

So technically, Caleb is back with his family once more.

#the owl house #toh #the owl house spoilers #toh spoilers #hunter noceda #the owl house analysis

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avianhasnodignity · 2 years

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this screenshot says a lot to me:

because the hunter we know wouldn’t be mad if he was being taken back to belos (his literal abuser), he would be panicking and struggling. this is so much more of a luz thing to do, especially when belos is involved. this facial expression isn’t what hunter would be doing in this situation, he’d be panicking, gasping for air and trying to get out

but this:

this is how hunter would react to his friend getting taken to someone he is deathly afraid of

#the owl house #toh hunter #hunter toh #toh kikimora #kikimora toh #luz noceda #toh luz #luz toh #clouds on the horizon #the owl house spoilers #the owl house analysis #toh analysis

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qcoded · 4 months

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Belos, and the way he purposely appealed to The Collector: A TOH ANALYSIS.

I feel like one of the reasons that The Collector trusted Belos so much, was because he literally made himself appealing to them.

Despite the few scenes that they have, you can probably name a few of the aspects he changed around them. But one of the most apparent ones for me, was how Belos basically changed the way he spoke around them.

In a lot of the moments where they appeared together, he seemed to use a much more softer & sing-songy voice around them, as well as more simpler and 'friendlier' language. It's not even just with The Collector, through-out multiple times in the series he's changed his behaviour around individual people.

To name an example, let's start off with their initial meeting. Although Philip/Belos was speaking in an already soft tone of voice towards Luz and Lilith in Elsewhere and Elsewhen, it was much more calmer and monotone.

"Thank you for your kindness, crab maiden. Perhaps we were destined to meet."

Despite the obvious compliment, his words almost feel empty. There's no feeling of "thankfulness" behind them, just a pat to the shoulder and that's it. But that's the thing, even Lilith said it in the same scene. He just says everything a person wants to hear, and to Luz, just hearing his 'gratitude' through a sentence was enough to make her feel nice for assisting him so kindly.

However, when you look at when two of his scenes with the Collector, you can see Philip's shift in tone and behaviour.

Although he still had an almost blank expression, the very first thing he said when he unburied their plate and held it up was an almost playful, but simple "Found you", literally singing it out, around the end.

I feel like this is due to the fact that, Philip definitely knew The Collector was a child and made that subconcious switch in his words while speaking for them. It was made way more apparent when he was talking to their tablet and calling them these (objectively) silly names, at the same time looking endeared while speaking. Philip's face almost lit up as they called them 'a round boy'.

Like Lilith said, to Philip, he immediately started to speak like how you'd typically do with a child. Much more playful wording, and friendlier mannerisms even.

Although I believe at the start of their relationship that Belos treated The Collector more kindly to have them warm up to him, even later on you can still see this happening.

In the memory of Belos & The Collector in Hollow Mind, it's even more obvious than my previous examples. Belos & The Collector are quite literally playing a game, in this case Hide & Seek, with Belos being the one to start the whole interaction.

And again, when he's calling out for The Collector at the start he's using that playful, but gentle sing-songy voice. He's going along with their little game, because he's been doing this for *decades* now. Exactly what I mean when I say Belos appeals to them, he's giving into their childish nature and feeding onto it.

Likewise with his language, Belos changes it to make things sound more engaging to them. Although The Collector knew what was happening with the Day of Unity, with the way Belos was framing it, it was inevitable that they would just treat it so unseriously.

Ex: "You'll have your fun, on the Day of Unity" Like? Even though The Collector didn't even understand the concept of death, it was clear that they weren't fond of people just disappearing, like the titans. But Belos was literally treating the death of millions of witches like some fun game of hopscotch. Add that to the list of manipulation points!

Another example? Grimmwalkers.

The Collector was seen to view them as 'things', toys that he saw Belos just get rid of time and time again. And with the way he was framing it as them 'betraying' him, Collector probably just began to believe that and started viewing them like he did.

I think I delved into a completely different point with this scene, but long story short, Belos additionally uses his change of tone and language to further desensitize horrific situations to them. I would say even sugarcoat them in a way.

During King's tide, there's this one scene where King sees The Collector, and Belos is reassuring him. This one is a bit more different than the other scenes. Unlike the previous scenes I've talked about, instead of The Collector just acting playfully and seeming to trust Belos with what he says, they're actively doubting and complaining to him. And what does this come off as to Belos? A cranky child.

And like anyone dealing with a cranky child, he immediately deals with the situation as 'best as he can'.

First, he reassures and shuts down their doubts about being freed, telling them that it was *specifically* AFTER the draining spell that they'd be freed. And when The Collector doubted him once again, he essentially frames it as the child being the one in the 'wrong' here. They just have the be patient to get their reward after all, don't they? It's sorta like how a parent just tells their kid that "Oh, we'll be there soon, just wait!". Except that The Collector instead of waiting, will literally never get freed.

Basically, Belos is quite literally gaslighting them, in the sense that he's making them feel like they're acting out of order for a very reasonable doubt.

Additionally, he's also making them FEEL like an impatient with the way he's speaking and wording himself. Belos is portraying the whole thing as this being unfortunate for the both of them ('WE have to way for after the draining spell . . .'), and tell them to just have 'patience'.

In a fucked up way, this is probably how Belos disciplined them.

And this leads me to my next point. Like some sort of system of rewards and punishment, whenever The Collector was shown to actively say things that Belos didn't like, even if it was just for the moment, he altered the way he behaved and talked around the kid.

During Clouds in The Horizon, you can immediately notice the difference during the scene with these two. Even if there was the chance that Belos was already in a bad mood, and The Collector who was just making crude jokes for half of the time worsened everything, and there's a notable change in his wording and behavior. Belos is much more withdrawn, not even responding to the boys comments at certain times and giving them the silent treatment

Something I noticed even as I write this, was that in a sense this scene and the one from Hollow Mind parellel almost perfectly.

In Hollow Mind, when The Collector was joking about Belos lashing out at Hunter and turning into his monster form, Belos pretty much brushed it off and just took it as a chance to go "well, as long as he doesn't fuck around and find out, he'll be fine". Even when they were literally saying that the grimmwalkers were 'things', a mind that Belos just made them to torture them, the guy literally SMILED as if he was amused.

Meanwhile, Belos had a completely different reaction to practically the same comments, but in a different font.

Now, The Collector was making fun of him for his monster form, saying how he can't even keep it up anymore. In response, Belos just proceeds go punch the wall and just prove their point. As for the grimmwalkers, when they suggested that the man should make another one go play with, he just shut down them said they needed to 'deal' with this one.

There's a very clear difference here: In one scene, The Collector isn't directly mocking Belos, and the man is amused by their honestly horrific joking about such vile situations. In another, they're using those same situation and topics to make fun of Belos.

In short, Belos only seemed to excuse these comments when they weren't directly being negative towards *him*, and almost rewarded The Collector by continuing to speak to them in a friendly manner. Once they did, he almost retracted a 'priviledge'.

Because that's essentially what it was. A privilege that Belos gave them by just treating as 'nicely' as someone like him could get. And like any child too, they were blinded by it.

Again, bringing me into my next point.

When Belos betrayed The Collectoe, it was the exact moment when that privilege and everything else, was permanently revoked. At first you can see how Belos just watches as The Collector, like expected, excitedly talks and gushing about how they'll be able to play. Even after all these years, Belos really is freeing them. And they'll be able to play now!

Except they aren't.

Because immediately after, Belos shut down any hopes that they have of being freed with a simple "I'm afraid that's impossible".

At first, they're confused, hurriedly repeating Philip's promise, because sufely he couldn't have forgotten about it. But the man just brushes it off as an inconvenience, that he just didn't have any more Titan's Blood to free them.

And even as The Collector shouts and screams that Belos was a liar, unlike in the scene where he reassured them about their doubts, he doesn't have to do that anymore. Because there's no use in appealing to them anymore.

The kid was wringed dry of all their use to the man. And just like those grimmwalkers, like those witches, like everyone, Belos would leave them. Because in the end, they were also just a 'thing' for Belos.

And to add more insult to injury, it's not even like Belos just started acting all serious and mad like whenever he was upset with them. Opposite, even, because there was still using that sing-songy, playful tone to his voice speaking to them. In a sense, it was now The Collector's turn to be mocked. And it's not even like they could protest and throw one of their 'tantrum's', because Belos essentially just shut them up.

After dropping their plate down a bridge, just to add to open up that cut even more, Belos simply parted ways with them with a GOODBYE. Not even calling them by their name, giving them one last display of 'affection', or perhaps thanking them for their 'help' to Belos. Just a truly emotionless goodbye.

And, BELOS JUST WALKED AWAY AFTER THAT. Because truly, those decades meant nothing to him. The way he so eloquently phrashed and sang out everything to flatter the kid, going along with their silly games, and reassuring them– that was in the past now.

But here's the thing with that man. HE LITERALLY CANNOT STAY CONSISTENT. Belos cannot fucking commit to, and accept that his actions have consequences, because it was obvious he immediately regretted disregarding the kid once they were freed.

As my final point, let's take a lot at the infamous "splatter" scene.

You can literally see how Belos stepped away out of fear. Because unlike the shadow boy that just lived in his basement, that could only move around his walls at most, The Collector was now freed. And what does that mean? It means that Belos fucked up BIG time. Literally as they turn to look at him, that blank look on their face told that man everything he had to know.

And of course, he immediately retracts on literally every he said before, and begins trying to appeal to the kid by twisting around his intentions.

Belos was probably just hoping they'd be gaslighted enough to just run back into his arms and accept his words, but at that moment they weren't fooled like before. The Collector knew his true intentions, and no amount of sing-songy voices and empty compliments could change that.

This analysis is quite literally getting too long LOL, it was supposed to be super short. I was planning to also analyze the Raine scenes, and compare the scenes included to seperate belos scenes, but I'll end it on a short note.

TLDR; Belos purposely changed his tone of voice, language and overall behavior to appeal to The Collector. Essentially to manipulate, desensitize and gaslight the boy to a lot of horrific things. Even then, it backfired on him in the end.

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idlescree · 7 months

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Say my name, say my name! Today, we will be exploring the fascinating naming conventions of the Owl House--digging into the literal, narrative and meta-narrative meanings and possible reasons behind the many monikers of this show.

CREDITS Writing/narration - https://www.tumblr.com/ashanimus/ Art - https://www.artstation.com/fernacular Editing - https://www.instagram.com/masterc0ntr… Music - @ohgeeeznotagain https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UXLCirayE8&ab_channel=OhGeeez @SWJonesMusic The Owl House Ending Theme (Extended Piano Version) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODEofJHo1_U&t=0s&ab_channel=SWJonesMusic

SPECIAL THANKS ANIMATED BOUNCE BAT INTRO @draikinator

Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favor of fair use. Thank you all so much for watching, wear sunscreen, and have a wonderful day!

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tinycatcoven · 1 year

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thinking ab what set Luz apart from Belos in how they reacted to the Demon Realm... Belos was fueled by anger from the very start. He put on a facade of a poor injured human while tricking kind witches into dying for his benefit. His first instinct is to lie. He doesn't quit, he knows what he wants to do because he feels such deep hatred towards any witch or demon... his main goal is to wipe out the entire Boiling Isles and he is willing to do whatever it takes to get there.

But he ends up dying at the hands (or rather feet...) of those he swore to kill. He never changes, never grows; even on the brink of death he promises that none of it was really him, it was the curse! He stays determined to think that he never did anything wrong and witches are the true enemy... and gets stomped into the ground.

Luz, on the other hand, had no idea that the Demon Realm even existed. She stumbled upon it completely accidentally. And even though she was scared at first, she chose to trust Eda and help King because she saw them as individuals and recognized that they were weird and outcast just like her. She found community and belonging in a world where she was more out of place than on Earth.

Her fears that she might be similar to Belos just prove how much better she truly is. She is capable of reflection and remorse without taking it out on anyone. Because of her kindness and acceptance, she gets straight-up blessed with the power of the Titan, whom Belos claimed was a spirit as vengeful as he was.

Luz proved Belos wrong in every way she could. She grew from being a clumsy, uncertain human to a flourishing, badass witch and I love her so much for that.

#the owl house #the owl house analysis #luz noceda #phillip wittebane #emperor belos #watching and dreaming #the owl house season 3 #toh spoilers #the owl house spoilers #papa titan

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noperopesaredope · 1 year

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I am a hardcore Collector apologist, and I will stand by them forever. I do believe that they aren’t truly malicious, they just don’t realize that what they’re doing is wrong.

But I also kinda like it when fanfics portray them as both blissfully naive and straight up sadistic at the same time. It’s honestly one of the things that draws me to his character. Sure, I adore it when the Collector is just an easily manipulated little kid, but I also like seeing portrayals of them in which they describe how he will violently maim someone. I actually like seeing both portrayals at the exact same time.

One of the things that I like about the Collector is what I call “Terrifying Innocence.” The Collector is definitely a naive little kid and mentally quite innocent and impressionable, but here’s the thing about little kids: they can be really fucked up. Even the sweetest and most kindhearted children can be scary af.

Cognitive empathy is mostly a learned trait rather than an inherent one. Children do not come out of the womb with the knowledge that other beings have feelings and that their actions affect others, and this is clearly the case with the Collector. So they can commit different types of violence with no reaction, as they might not be aware that it is wrong.

It’s like children who torture ants during recess. They are more fascinated by it than anything, and they don’t fully process how cruel they are actually being. When you don’t understand that other people experience pain, can’t properly empathize with it, or generally feel extremely removed from it, you become fascinated by it. It’s the same reason people like true crime or even slasher horror.

Honestly, as I said, I kinda like it when the Collector is shown to be weirdly playful upon seeing horrific things. It’s because he feels less like a sadistic ass like Belos, and more like someone who is really into slasher movies. Little kids are into violence a surprising amount.

I have been told that I’m a very compassionate person (I don’t completely believe that I am, but a bizarre amount of people have told me this, so I guess it’s true), but as a kid, around the Collector’s age, I had multiple “disaster” phases

I had an obsession with the Titanic for a while, particularly the part where hundreds of people died. I had an even bigger obsession with Pompeii, and upon seeing a museum exhibit with some of the preserved bodies, I actually took a good few minutes imagining how each individual person died and what their last moments were like. Fucked up, I know, but it happened.

Children don’t typically go out of their way to hurt others once they realize that their actions can hurt others, but they will occasionally watch (from a distance). I imagine that the Collector is like this as well. Maybe they did watch Belos hurt the Grimwalkers and were still playful about it.

I even brought up a small potential headcanon that they (slightly unintentionally) gave Belos ideas. Kinda like “what if you EXPLODED one of them? Ooh- ooh- or...you could THROW THEM IN LAVA!” Not an evil whisper-in-your-ear kinda way, more like asking a preschooler to describe what they think demons would do to people in hell or something. Kids get creative with it.

It wouldn’t be that he truly meant harm the way Belos did, they would do it because they found it interesting. They don’t understand other people’s pain, and therefore just experiment without realizing how bad their actions are. It’s interesting to me to read portrayals of the Collector where they are still show in a sympathetic light and he’s clearly just a little kid, but he also doesn’t really seem to care about others that much.

It’s realistic in a way that I like and captures the spirit of the messiness that is a child’s morality. They aren’t evil or completely sadistic, they just don’t see the severity of their actions and are mostly self-centered in terms of worldview.

So, in conclusion, we need more fics where the Collector is a blissfully innocent kid with a love for slasher films.

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