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brehaaorgana · 9 months

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Okay tqt fandom I have questions about Moira's Pen stories because I am confused.

Do you think the women at the Costis/Kamet household are all costis's relatives before Laela shows up?? There's three of them, all the kids call them aunty, that makes sense, right?

Costis has kids who are half siblings. IS THE IMPLICATION THEY'RE HALF SIBLINGS THROUGH LAELA??

IS THE REALIZATION IN GITTA'S STORY THAT SHE IS SACRED TO EUGENIDES?? because Eugenides means "wellborn," but Gita's name ALSO means wellborn.

Like Costis and Kamet are together but Laela can marry one of them and they all get something out of it, Kamet loves Laela (but is in love with Costis) and Laela gets taken care of and a family and freedom and peace, and Costis gets an heir. Am I reading that right? Help I just want to understand. Costis and Kamet are definitely still together. I love them. ;-;

Bc it's Phaedo who has STEP-siblings, but Timris has a Half-brother named Philo. So Thalia(?) married Dumonius who had been married before and already had kids(?) There's cousins also, so these could very well be Dumonius's sisters.

I think the thing throwing me off is that Timris is named as Costis's son. I can't remember if Laela is too old to have kids (?) But my theory works better if Timris was called Kamet's son, and Phaedo is his half-brother. I guess they both could've married women "all the papas," but then why not just explain. Kamet counts as a Papa, right??

Okay so it goes Eugenides & Attolia -> Eugenia [who becomes Queen of somewhere that isn't Attolia? They do call her queen! She obviously didn't become queen if Pheris is the Princess Thief] -> [someone] -> [someone & Brael Royalty] -> princesses Gitta & Hennis. Gitta will be marrying the prince of Ephestalia, who is most likely the descendent of Eddis's grandson (the Union King). Right?

...my takeaway here is that Gitta is going to be a Queen Thief, yes? She shares a translation of the Eugenides name, and is betrothed to the heir to Ephestalia, and Eugenia saw her and Knew she was sacred to Eugenides. Tykus knew and that's why he had her read Gen's books. Eugenia only concedes to the name Gitta because the meaning is the same(?)

How did Eugenia simply die by the fire? Was it because she didn't take an oath?

....IS FALLING ASLEEP COUNTING AS A DEATH BY A FALL, MWT?????

Is the rest of fandom also convinced the Goddess addressing Eugenides in QOA Alyta because she calls him "Little Thief," says he made an offering at her altar, and he doesn't remember her?

Relius and Teleus continue to be the ultimate. No questions. No notes.

I'm seeing other people talk about queerbaiting but tbh that was never my feeling? Even now? It feels very much like MWT just looked at how relationships worked in ancient Greece, and that's what she models it after. That Costis might have had a wife and children wouldn't have changed the fact that he's in love with and partnered to Kamet? Likewise we already knew Relius sleeps with everyone, but that Teleus is only ever with Relius, so it makes sense that Relius has a wife. I also think it makes sense for the captain of the guard to remain unmarried (like...you cannot hold a vow higher than your service to the monarch, style. If you want to be married, you leave the position.) Also we know having multiple lovers isn't unheard of (one of Gen's attendants and Baron Artadorus both have lovers.)

Maybe I'm just being too forgiving idk.

#the queens thief #tqt #geniad #the geniad #moira's pen

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littlepeninsula · 1 year

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I just got my copy of Moiras Pen and (does this make sense??) I am absolutely TERRIFIED to read it. Like 1) I’ve been shaking with anticipation for this is moment 2) I have actual time on my hands to read it right now… but! I’m so scared! Like. What am I going to do after that HUHHH???? This didn’t happen to me with rott even though I thought that was the last of the series and ofc I’m a religious rereader but READING THE DAMN BOOK SEEMS SO SCARY AND MONUMENTAL SEND HELP

#shitpost #eugenides #megan whalen turner #moiras pen #attolia #tqt #qt #queens thief #the queen's thief #queen's thief #attolia irene #eddis helen #sophos #costis #rott #sounis #mwt #geniad

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bellshazes · 1 year

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people think kingship narratives are good because it's about power. however kingship narratives esp reluctant kings are about first loyalty and two debt and three, crucially, that even if you become a legend and truly more than a man it will alienate you to the point you cannot exist anymore and your dynasty cannot ever last. no rule is so golden it never ends.

#the GENIAD. i cant handle it #loyalty that makes you become the golden ruler made insignificant and tragic by time at larger scales

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seekingthemacguffin · 1 year

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I’m still reeling from all the tantalizing bits and pieces we got glimpses of in Moira’s Pen. MWT may not be telling, but I’m definitely asking...

On a tangential note, I cannot believe I have spent 20 years awkwardly referring to this series as either “the Attolia series” or “The Queen’s Thief series” depending on which friends I’m talking to when we could have been calling it The Geniad this entire time!

#Moira's Pen #Queen's Thief series #Attolia series #seriously though this series didn't have an official name for years and years!#then everyone landed on Queen's Thief series which I kind of hate because just by saying it you're giving out a spoiler to the new people #The Geniad might not make sense to someone who hasn't read it or isn't familiar with classical greek texts but my god it is a perfect name

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tstimacstumblinfuntime · 1 year

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I know the series is "The Queen's Thief", but I sometimes lose my mind at the fact that you can put the apostrophe anywhere allowed by English grammar and it STILL works.

You can even drop that bad boy into a COMMA and it is acceptable.

#the queen's thief #I ALSO know that Megan calls it the Geniad #but that's not a road we're going to walk down

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very-grownup · 1 year

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This seemed to resonate with some folks on the other social media site

Also now reading "Moira's Pen" (2022) by Megan Whalen Turner because I'm not taking "The Odyssey" into the bath to be dropped by my tiny hands.

You would think that a collection of short stories - although it's not really that (errata maybe) - published after the conclusion of an author's series would be full of answers to narrative gaps, things readers have always been curious about, elaborations from the ending.

So I'm absurdly pleased that Turner continues to answer basically no questions beyond "what is the age difference between two characters?" and "who is Gitta?" and instead has scattered dozens of new questions for the reader.

I might have further thoughts in terms of how this all fits with Turner's approach to series structure as a whole because I continue to find that fascinating. If I don't, though, cheers for more material confirming Relius as the least wholesome queer character. What a gift.

(The bookshelf photos are here as evidence that I have in fact read some books.)

I think it all comes back to Turner bucking the conventions of the genre demographic she's published under. I feel like "The Thief" was published, and what she endearing calls The Geniad was conceived, just before the rise of YA as a "distinct" genre. (Genre is fake and a construct of the publishing industry.) There have always been books of interest to older teens, but just as the idea of teenagers is a relatively recent as something separate from a child, so to is YA as something distinct from children's fiction. I think, in being a constructed marketing thing, there are rigid expectations about what a series is, what formulae make something a series, how they work for both authors and audience, and that those things won't change. A famous(ly hateful and mediocre) author was seen as doing something new in having characters /age/ and /increasing book length/ even though the former is just how a bildungsroman works and the later is 'lack of editing'.

What's thought of as a YA series has, I think, become an expectation of pressing and breaking up the bildungsroman into something structured with all the variety of an Enid Blyton or, more contemporaneously, Babysitter's Club, if that makes sense? You'll have the same characters, probably with one central character, the same point of view, facing an escalating series of the same sort of thing, whether it's demons or dark lords or relationship complications or levels of schooling, ultimately culminating in the Big Thing: Satan or fighting your arch nemesis or marriage or graduating into adult life beyond the structure of educational institutions. Am I making sense? I think I'm making sense, I may be stating the painfully obvious. I'm tired. For the reader there's growth within the narrative but the structure makes the reading experience an easy one, literally, because you're reading same-ish things. That's what makes series so marketable and readable!

But pre-YA-as-a-genre, amidst the Blytons you also got:

- Everyone's problematic fave religious allegory from C.S. Lewis!

- Cooper's Dark is Rising series, which started Famous Five-y in structure and ran towards Tolkien!

- L'Engle's scientific-religious weirdness with the Murray family!

- Any DWJ that publishers try to coral as 'series'!

- (Friend Jen added Diane Duane's Young Wizard series.)

Megan Whalen Turner feels special because the way she's written her series calls back to what authors like the previously mentioned were doing before an expectation of audience and genre pressed books into something that asked less of their audience.

It doesn't have to be much.

But the way I have seen people, especially younger readers, talk about experiencing the series, is evocative of someone being given a new food with their meal and balking because it isn't what they asked for, it isn't what they expected, do they even want this?

In "The Thief" our protagonist is Gen, first person point of view.

In "The Queen of Attolia" our protagonist is still Gen, but out secondary protagonist is also a primary antagonist, Attolia, third person point of view, alternately limited and omniscient.

In "The King of Attolia" our protagonist is Costis (who is this Costis guy?! I want Gen!), third person limited.

In "A Conspiracy of Kings" our protagonist is Sophos (and sure, we know Sophos, but where's Costis?! WHAT ABOUT GEN? THIS IS GEN'S SERIES!), first person but also third person.

In "Thick as Thieves" our protagonist is Kamet a mostly-background character from several books back (BUT SOPHOS! AND GEN! WE'VE HAD SO LITTLE GEN!), first person.

In "Return of the Thief" our protagonist is Pheris (who is this Pheris kid?! Gen and Sophos are here but WHERE ARE COSTIS AND KAMET? ARE THEY OKAY?!), first person.

After each one, you love what you've gained due to the change, due to not getting what you 'want'. Still marketed as a series. Still /is/ a series. I can't imagine, for example, coming in to "Return of the Thief" cold. But Turner tells the story she's always intended to tell without conforming to reader or publisher expectations.

And she never answers questions.

This isn't to say she is disconnected from her fans. She has a lovely, engaged fanbase (she's on tumblr and not, sensibly, twitter). She delights in memes and fanart and reblogs so much of it.

But she doesn't answer questions. She doesn't even tell you how names are pronounced.

AND IN CONCLUSION that's why she's such a fascinating author and that is the kind of author who puts together a book like "Moira's Pen". Short stories, yes, but also short observations on ancient art that informed things in her stories, brief dialogues, poetry. There's a cake recipe.

Megan Whalen Turner finished a series that took her twenty-five years to write and the first thing she has published after ending that series includes a recipe for cake and I love that. It's perfect.

The stories in "Moira's Pen" bring up so many questions, dozens upon dozens, and there's no indication that Turner intends to answer any of them in future novels. And that's fine. Because Turner also spent six books teaching her audience that questions and empty space are part of storytelling and that the author's involvement in that, for the reader, begins and ends with the story you're given.

Okay, I think I'm done. Read "The Thief". It's fun.

#megan whalen turner #the queen's thief series #moira's pen #some thoughts about how books

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swamp-world · 10 months

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Aaaaa thanks @void-and-virtue for tagging me!! Also I am so sorry I have just vanished off the face of the earth, but consider this a general update and “I’m alive” too. Also it gives me a chance to babble about so very many things!!! And I will do so at length!!!

Currently reading: an incomplete list of what I am reading and cycling my way through at the moment.

1. Rereading The Queen’s Thief series for some levity and joy in my life; I’m currently midway through Thick as Thieves again and am loving it as ever, 10/10 would recommend to anyone who hasn’t read it. Also my partner studies classics and so I get to go and harass them with this book series and ask about how it reflects elements of actual Hellenistic life (I know MWT wasn’t going by any means for a one-to-one but I really really enjoy getting to learn what a lot of the probable inspirations were, and also how the metaphysics of the Geniad reflect neoplatonic philosophy).

2. The Parable of the Sower by Octavia Butler. It’s absolutely brutal and I’ve been going through it slowly because it…is rough. It’s really good, but also wow it’s heavy. Feels very relevant to mention that like…my roommates and I have been having long discussions about the climate crisis, wildfires, and just the approaching Crumbles, and it’s lovely as ever to see a book that actually approaches the community-focused approach to the Crumbles. Not just doomsday libertarian preppers.

3. In Deeper Waters, actually on your recommendation Kylie! I started reading the book like a year ago and then dropped it, but found the audiobook again, and the audiobook is also narrated by uhhh. Kevin R. Free if I’m remembering right? Who also does the audiobooks for The Murderbot Diaries, which I love with all of my heart. Loving the book, have to be honest that I don’t necessarily love the voice that he does for Athlen, but I love him too much to not listen to this. (Also I just looked it up and apparently he’s the voice actor for Kevin in WTNV?????? Makes sense but AAAAAAA [kronk voice] oh yeah it’s all coming together.)

4. Tractatus Logico-Philosophiscus by Wittgenstein. Trying it again, finally. But I found the centenary edition by one publisher that lays it out in a tree format of sorts instead of just linearly? Which is apparently how Wittgenstein originally wrote it. This is to say—the edition I’d been reading previously addresses points in an order of like, 2.14; 2.141; 2.15; 2.151; 2.1511; 2.1512; 2.15121; 2.1513 etc. etc. etc. but the tree format addresses all points before addressing subpoints, so it’s 1; 2; 3; 4; […] 2.1; 2.2; 2.11; 2.12; 2.13; 2.14; 2.15; […] which is very very neat and way easier to understand in my humble opinion. (See attached diagram. As you can tell I gave up before even finishing the tree for proposition 2.02123.)

ANYWAYS that’s a lot of words and half an hour of trying to draw this out to say—it’s a piece of logical philosophy which is extremely foundational for 20th c. philosophy in pretty much every way, and it’s also extremely funny to me. A lot of people find it extremely dry but I think that it’s hilarious. And not in a way of like, I’m laughing at Wittgenstein, or that in a lot of ways I don’t think he was writing intending it to be humorous, but I don’t think he’s totally unaware of it. It just feels so cheeky at times. Because the whole thing is written in these expanding propositions which build off of one another, and so the propositions themselves are often very simple and straightforwards. Ex:

2.012 In logic nothing is accidental: if a thing can occur in a state of affairs, the possibility of the state of affairs must be written into the thing itself.

2.0121 It would seem to be a sort of accident, if it turned out that a situation would fit a thing that could already exist entirely on its own.

And that’s just hilarious to me! That part of proposition 2.0121 I’ve just annotated with “cheeky” because I find it very funny. I’ve tried reading this twice now (each time on a plane) and I finally sat down to review my notes from the first two sections, so now I can finally get into the meat of it for propositions 3-6.

What I love about the Tractatus is that a lot of people will cite the part of “What can be said at all can be said clearly and what we cannot talk about we must pass over in silence” but treat that like it’s the only and final conclusion of the Tractatus, because it’s really more like “Look! I did it! I solved all of philosophy, and it’s done nothing!”

Wittgenstein is absolutely on the list of Top 10 Saddest Men Of All Time and he’s a bastard and a motherfucker and I love him. He’s hilarious.

5. Mengele: Unmasking the “Angel of Death” by David G. Marwell. This one is also very heavy and extremely depressing.

6. Silver Under Nightfall by Rin Chupeco. I’m kinda on the fence about this one, I don’t want to DNF it but it’s a bit too heavy on the horny romance for me and not enough on the geopolitical vampire plot (personal preference). But I had been enjoying it for a bit, wouldn’t not recommend I guess

7. Gay Bar: Why We Went Out by Jeremy Atherton, which is about the history and disappearance of gay bars and physical spaces for queer community. This one hits hard personally, right now my city only has one designated “gay club” though there are a lot of other queer places in a less official way. There used to be so many and it breaks my heart, and reading this has been equally heartbreaking and wonderful.

8. Not a book but it’s making up the majority of my reading right now so I’m putting it on here because I need to babble about it that I’ve been catching up on a lot of school readings to try to turn in some late assignments from the last (checks watch) two years, so there’s been a lot of essays by Hannah Arendt, Walter Benjamin, a bit of Heidegger, and a lot of critiques of Heidegger—I’m currently rereading the part of Being and Time on Being-toward-death and Mitsein, and then following it up with sections of critique by Luce Irigaray from The Forgetting of Air in Martin Heidegger, and then the chapter “With Being-With?” from Being Singular Plural by Jean-Luc Nancy (and then after that, Simon Critchley wrote some notes on that, and I’m really looking forwards to reading that too); and also then “On The Coloniality of Being” by Nelson Maldonado-Torres, and then after that Aporias by Derrida, who I’ve also been reading a lot of for classes.

ANYWAYS.

Favourite Colour: You know when there’s a massive storm with really dark clouds, and it then passes, but the clouds are directly across from the sun, and so they’re being illuminated in front of you from the sun behind you, and then you have fresh green trees against the clouds? It’s the color in between the clouds and the trees, at the edges, because they look so golden. (Vital note: I do not wear my glasses as often as I should.)

Last Song: The Man With X-Ray Eyes by Bauhaus. Absolutely adore this album, it’s so so so goofy and I get this song stuck in my head all the time. Next time there’s a karaoke night I’m doing either this or Of Lilies and Remains because “Peter has fallen to the old cold stone floor wheezing and emitting a seemingly endless flow of ectoplasmic white goo from ears and mouth” is just so goofy and great to throw people off-guard. Please please please go listen to this whole album I love it.

Last Show: Baccano! Incredibly fun, 10/10, need to go and rewatch to get the plot straight in my head because of all of the time jumps. Also, outstanding jazz soundtrack. Love it so much. The best kind of bullshit.

Currently Watching: My partner got me watching The Owl House finally and I love it with all of my heart. Eda owns my soul. Hooty is great. Luz is my absolute beloved. I cried seeing on-screen queerness in this kid’s cartoon. Also Eda reminds me of my favourite professor. Identical energy, both absolutely deranged.

Last Movie: oh god. Uh. Literally the only thing coming to mind is Godspeed You! Black Emperor, which is a 1976 Japanese documentary about motorcycle clubs/gangs/movements in Japan in the ‘70s. A very uncomfortable watch, because it’s just…it’s very interesting, but watching bōsōzoku with fascist symbols plastered on their bikes, helmets, clothing, and skin, and their interactions with the cops and legal system, and the one kid’s interactions with his parents? It’s brutal. I know I’ve definitely watched other films since then but for some reason this is literally the only thing coming to mind.

Sweet/Spicy/Savory: Sour and/or salty. It can be sweet or spicy or savory but the important thing is that it’s either sour or salty.

Currently working on: One (1) extremely self-indulgent angst fic that I started ages ago, long-term WIP for when I’m feeling sad. A pile of papers for classes but one for fun on the digital location of (sub)culture and dark academia (in which the only real physical location for “dark academia” to exist is the academy, which is a fundamentally hostile environment that just sublates what “dark academia” considers itself to be); an essay on Benjamin’s Language as Such and the Language of Man and Arendt’s discussion of the inarticulate cry, both in relation to klezmer ornamentation as pure expression of language and/or grief; a piece that I might submit to a music zine about how Bowie’s song TVC-15 uses the stylings of surf rock in ways that create ambivalence about whether he’s singing about a bad trip and a TV (which he is), or a car that he loves deeply (maybe). Also the long-standing thing I’ve been writing about locutions of love, still an ongoing project. A history of my university, maybe? The line between projects for fun and projects for work have gotten a bit blurred.

Current obsession: beating the old Mortal Kombat arcade terminal at the punk bar down the way. It used to cost a quarter per game but now it’s a dollar so I’m very determined to get way way way better at it because otherwise it’s too expensive to play.

Tagging mutuals: Kylie I think you got most people I know but uhhhh. @uppercase-disgrace @edgy-contrarian dragging y’all into this??? anyone else who wants to!

#tag game #haven't done one of these for a hot minute

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stealtharchaeologist · 1 year

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Okay, I'm going to put this in its own post.

I think Moira's Pen is like the Silmarillion. Taken from notes written before, during, and after canon. So sometimes things don't make sense, sometimes things outright contradict each other.

And that's okay.

We got insight into MWT's process and thoughts about the Geniad. (And that name, the Geniad!) We got little snippets of characters' lives that we might not otherwise have gotten. But sometimes things don't make total sense and that's okay.

Thus, I think it's also okay if people don't take everything in Moira's Pen as hard-and-fast canon. Maybe you're disappointed about how your ships were handled or how things ultimately turned out. If it doesn't make sense to you... Then you can ignore it as not officially part of the Geniad.

I guess the only "problem" here is that any of us expected to get any answers.

Oh, and the fact that the Laela story wasn't finished...

#Moira's Pen #Queen's Thief

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parrishsrubberplant · 1 year

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Tag Game

Tagged by @notenoughgatorade and @rhysiana, thank you both!

Three ships: WangXian from The Untamed/MDZS (I love what @buriedbybooks calls the Stoic x Gremlin dynamic). I love Lan Wangji because I too was a teachers pet prissy little rule-follower growing up; I love Wei Wuxian also (of course!) but I don’t relate to him to the same degree. (I sympathize with Lan Quiren: Wei Wuxian would be a nightmare to have in class. But also, do better LQ! You simply can’t teach WWX the way you do LWJ! He needs a different approach.) I also love SuiTang - Sui Zhou and Tang Fan from Sleuth of the Ming Dynasty. My heart forever belongs to Eugenides and Irene from the Geniad (aka The Queen’s Thief series by Megan Whalen Turner). They are my OG gremlin/stoic.

First ever ship: First one I ever wrote fic for, was Shakespeare’s The Taming of the Shrew, Katharina and Petruchio. I still have the notebook somewhere.

Last song: On My Knees, Rufus Du Sol (honorable mention to Ariana Grande’s Positions which came on while I was out to dinner with my Dad. Urk.)

Last movie: No idea. Possibly 2001: A Space Odyssey? I don’t watch all that many movies.

Currently reading: Alfred Bester’s The Stars My Destination.

Currently watching: Nothing, at the moment. I may resume my Sleuth rewatch sometime soon.

Currently consuming: Water.

Currently craving: A good night’s sleep!

Tagging @itsthekiks, @buriedbybooks, @xiaq, @annundriel, and @paolarq. Anyone who would like to be tagged, please consider yourself tagged as well!

#tag games

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fishmaid · 3 years

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Eddis stared. “Your capacity to land yourself in a mess because you didn’t think first, Eugenides, will never cease to amaze me. What do you mean you didn’t think about being king? Is Attolia going to marry you and move into my library?”

The Queen of Attolia, Megan Whalen Turner

#megan whalen turner #the queen of attolia #irene attolia #queens thief #the geniad #eugenides attolis #?? i guess??

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brehaaorgana · 9 months

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So my theory that Eugenides has the ability to hear when someone else is saying a lie is fun because I can't PROVE it, but I have great text evidence. Cut for spoilers for book #3

Okay so I wish I had more citations to establish the first thing BUT, we know other people can tell when Gen draws on his power/channels The Thief when they look him DIRECTLY in the eyes.

You gotta trust me, I forgot to take screencaps of the times this is true. But you can see it in his eyes.

So, so, so, in KOA:

In fact, during one baron's particularly drawn-out accountings of his tax payment, the king leaned his head back and closed his eyes, to all appearances asleep.

Then he says "I close my eyes to listen better."

"What did you hear?"

"I'm not sure. That's why I was listening so closely. I may have to ask the baron to repeat some parts of his report on his grain tax."

My theory is this: Eugenides can hear when someone is lying, but he doesn't immediately or necessarily always know what the lie is. He isn't sure what he heard, just that he knows the man is lying. But if he gets him to repeat the report he may be able to identify what, specifically, is the lie.

I also think Attolia is being genuine here. I think she has figured this out for herself, that Eugenides can tell when someone lies, and is asking what he heard. Gen isn't yet sure.

The avoidance of eye contact and people seeing his eyes seems deliberate.

"He slumped back on the throne and stared at his feet or at the ceiling. He never appeared to be listening and at times appeared to be asleep..."

Now. Gen COULD just be fucking with everyone and doing this to be provoking. But that's also the simplest and most obvious answer to what is happening. I wish I'd taken pictures of it but there's that Naval Undersecretary who looks Eugenides in the eyes and realizes he's seeing the Thief and is terrified.

I think the avoiding looking at people is INTENTIONAL.

"Your master of spies is a liar, and this time he is lying," the king said slowly, "to you."

Remember back in book one where Gen says he and Ambiades both recognize each other as people deceiving the others and working for someone else?

That's also this moment. The Thief is a consummate liar and can literally recognize other liars. Think about it! The Eddisians also basically have a taboo about talking about the Thief and what they do, but we KNOW they can depose a corrupt ruler, and they reserve the right to do so. HOW do they reinforce that?

The thief never takes an oath of loyalty to the throne, only Eddis. Everyone is afraid of the role of Thief, but WHY? It makes sense for the ruler to be afraid but why everyone else?

What if the thief Hears lies? What if they can KNOW when someone is telling a lie, even if they don't always know exactly what the lie is? What if that relates to why Gen's cousins hated him?

I don't think we're ever explicitly told Eugenides is a god of liars as well as thieves, but "liars and thieves," generally goes together. If Eugenides is also a god of liars, then it would make sense that Gen knows when someone is lying if he is channelling his power intentionally.

#the geniad #the thief #eugenides #gen theories

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