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#the fandom needs to learn the difference between insults and criticism
matri4rch · 1 year
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Little Announcement + rant
This is my personal opinion, you are welcome to disagree with anything I say and I am willing to discuss the post in a civil manner down in the replies.
(I am sorry, this post is going to be incredibly long)
So I was lurking in @thequeenofthewinter 's blog as one casually does and I came across the sexyman fiasco posts. and oh my God. I should have not went to investigate.
The sheer hate for Ulfric had me a little shocked. Like yeah, I admit that my favorite nord is very, very flawed (sometimes infuriating as well) and everyone is entitled to their opinions about him, whether they are positive or negative but hating a fictional character to the point that you feel the need to say that "People who like Ulfric Stormcloak should be shot." (I just went back and it was not one, BUT TWO people who said it) Is kind of... going a little too far.
There are reblogs roasting Ulfric that I know are all in good fun, and I even laughed at some of them (love the "how is ulfric going to compete against the glory of Alduin" one lmao) BUT COME ON...
Also saw someone said Ulfric was a n*zi?! And that people sent anon asks basically saying @incorrectskyrimquotes was endorsing rascism for just putting Ulfric in the poll. While saying they want to f*ck Alduin, who I'm pretty sure is pretty damn worse in the grand scheme of Nirn.
This post was made because of the sexyman poll, but it opened my eyes to how intolerant the fandom can be towards other less-liked/more flawed characters like Ondolemar, Miraak, etc. Because they get incredible amounts of hate as well.
Now, why am I not going to publish the fic I've been mentally planning for a whole year? I hear nobody ask.
Short answer is: I do not wish to get an explosive in my mail for simping over Ulfric. lol
Long answer is: I am genuinely scared of some of the members in the fandom. I fear that I post about a character I love, cherish and am attached to just to get harassed and dragged for it. That I attempt to connect with the community to befriend people who share my interests and get shunned and casted out instead.
I love when characters make mistakes, say the wrong things and get in trouble for it, I like when they have negative traits and flaws because it makes them human and not a bland Mary Sue who can do no wrong. I write my fics because I adore the original work, I write to express my feelings, my ideas, to transform the bad things that have happened in my life and make art out of the sadness, pain and anger. I accept criticism, and wish to learn and grow as both an author and a person. But there is a very clear difference between criticism and hate.
Its honestly very disheartening to see that a game that is widely regarded as a sandbox that gives you the freedom to create your own story has so many people in its fandom that cannot handle when others don't fit into the idea/mold they have created of what is "right" and what is not. People that don't care to understand the point of view of others and resort to insulting the other person.
Anyways, thats it, thats the rant.
I am, again, extremely sorry for how long it is but I truly needed to get it out of my chest.
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ekingston · 1 year
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Ok, I just spent the last few minutes doing nothing but staring at Kara in that DWTS piece and I don't see it AT ALL. Beyond being blonde I see absolutely no resemblance between your Kara and either Sara or Ava. It's just not there.
It's a gorgeous work of art. If anon needed to look at Lena’s hair (ignoring the fact both characters are clearly named in the piece and the caption) to figure out the blonde was Kara I suspect that they have worse eyesight than me without my glasses, and I’m not legally or safely allowed to drive without them.
And you would think that humans as a species would have figured out by now that “Not to be [incredibly insulting in one way or another] but [is incredibly insulting]” is not a thing that is ever ok to say to anyone at any time. “Not to be a dick but” then don't. Just stop talking and cut your losses there. Creatives in particular have already said it to ourselves a million times in our heads, we don't need outside confirmation that our self-doubt was right all along.
I had a chapter I posted with a note “this is the most nervous I have been about any piece of writing I have ever done. I hope it doesn't suck too much.” and then got a comment “Since you asked for criticism [here are all the reasons this sucked and one minor ‘compliment’ at the end]”. Like exactly what in that note says “yes I welcome people ripping apart something I spent the last several months agonizing over”? Nearly made me quit writing altogether. I do not understand the way these people think and hope I never do.
i’m sorry that happened to you! making something and sharing it with the world will always be two very different joys to me — creating is a given but publishing it is a choice, and especially when you first get started, putting your work online is an incredibly vulnerable & incredibly brave thing. i know how devastating having even one person receive it like that can be — good for you for not letting it stop you!
to be honest, i'm still amazed by how much the culture in the fandom spaces i’m in subscribes to the ‘don’t like, don’t interact’ idea. my first experiences with publishing fanwork (fic) happened in the early 1700s, when getting feedback was rare (most websites didn’t have a built-in function to respond, so you’d only get people going through the trouble of emailing you their thoughts directly) and when it did come, the comments leaned toward the brutally honest, like you had presented your work to a classroom of your peers ready to pick apart the things they thought needed work. (in other words, there were a lot of shit sandwiches.)
the thing is that anonymous critiques like that — while having their value, especially when english was still a foreign language to me! — will never be very effective, because they’re coming from a random stranger whose credentials are entirely unknown. i’ve always learned the most from friends whose work i admire and who i know are genuinely interested in helping each other improve. those are the people i want to be learning from (and with)! 
i’m sure you know this but it bears repeating how much of what we love about fanwork is exceedingly subjective, and the more you find your own style, the more you realize there’s not one way to ‘do’ art (whatever kind) correctly. no matter how ‘good’ your work is, someone will inevitably be unhappy with your choices.
so i assume most of the anonymous criticism we do receive is from people who aren’t writers or artists themselves, and that they’re clueless both to what they’re talking about and how their words will land. it’s made it much easier for me to shrug off their remarks and continue doing what i love. i hope you feel that way too! i hope we have an easy week ahead with plenty of time, energy and inspiration to create whatever we choose to!
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majorannah · 1 month
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Can't reblog a really good post about Zuko taking shots at Aang's culture, so I'll just copy-paste it:
ok this was just meant to be a silly post, but might as well get into it. It's not that I can't understand why Zuko being racist is realistic, I know it is, but what value does it have to the story genuinely?
I was talking to another fan, apart of another fandom, about racism portrayed in fiction. Writers love the "realism" of racism esp from their "redeemed" characters spouting racist remarks to their new found family. But what about the "realistic" reaction of those on the receiving end? Y'know the victims? Do they not get hurt? Do they never punch back? We go from a group of heroes fighting against injustice, to them twiddling their thumbs as their new "friend" calls them slurs as a nickname (and yes, I've seen it in atla fandom).
And that's how I feel about Zuko's racism in the show. It's actually frustrating cause every time fans bring up that aspect of Zuko's character, it always get redirected to "it's good for his arc! Its benefits for his character!" What do I care! I'm not bringing up his racism to center him. Where's the focus on how it's good for the other characters to suffer like this? Does it benefit their arcs?
The scenes I was thinking of when I wrote this post was when Zuko diminished the role the monks had in Aang's life (right after finding out they all died) compared to his biological father (lol), and when he mocked Aang's culture again in TSR. And you know what I think? That's there's barely a difference between these scenes.
The things he says is never addressed outright. His attitude is never confronted as a genuine issue. And it's wild because the gaang reacted far more to less injustice in the past. These kids would be angrier at being teased by their friends and weren't afraid to put their foot down at outright discrimination, only to be made "diplomatic" towards their so called "reformed" member. While we're taught Zuko is changing and to keep less expectations, are we also taught you can't call out your friend or be angry whenever they insult your culture?
You said so yourself, the show didn't have any time to dive into it (say compared to issues he had with his family) or get him to actually CHANGE. And if Zuko is becoming a better person (a bit late if he's pulling this crap all the way to the finale) then why not have him face consequences of his words? Why not have him outcasted by the group momentarily and have his views be challenged, why not show him struggle with criticism and then learn to accept it? Y'know, if he really wants to change?
so yeah @ I agree, there's a racism problem in the fandom. I was actually thinking a while ago, about some fans that believe Zuko's in the right for what he said, for whatever justifications the plot has. So why have they not questioned the fact that the writers choose to write a victim of genocide be ignorant and wrong for holding onto his culture, and that he should get reprimanded for it by the prince of the nation who committed said genocide? But instead we get fan headcanons of Zuko teaching Aang how to "correctly" be a monk, by knowledge he stole from the air temples when he was still in pursuit of the avatar, intending to finish the genocide for once and for all.
The problem with Zuko's portrayed bigotry in the later season is how people focus on his feelings first and that the audience and the characters should be considerate towards him, instead of the characters on the receiving end of his comments and how they are allowed to react. How we naturally expect grace and forgiveness from them so it can be a teachable moment for Zuko, or else, if they had reacted in angry or annoyance, they simple wouldn't have been good victims. How so many of the "brilliant moments" to show Zuko still needs to unlearn his mindset has him insult the gaang while they remain deaf and don't react at all to what he's saying or doing.
But I think it would be better in the future if fans stop using a character's racism to center them in discussions, and instead think how it's good or rather necessary for the characters involved. Enough of hearing fans saying they see themselves in "redeemed" characters, and more questioning if it was worth having fans of color to go through the show with discomfort without any resolution or condemnation from the narrative.
(Just to be clear @ I'm not annoyed by your response (it's better than most), I'm actually glad cause it gave me an opportunity to talk about this.)
#and there are other instances of zuko acting out of pocket with other characters not just aang#like calling people peasant or dirty or talking down to suki and katara as 'little girl'#but i always felt unlike the b1 circumstances that show he clearly in the wrong and needs work#b3 has him repeat his actions with no consequence and now its like ok…..#maybe showing him change should have taken priority! before telling us he should rule the fn lol#this is critical to both the fandom and the show#cause its silly that they had the time to put racism in but not enough time to actually confront it#…i guess it wasn't that great of an b plot after all 😔#atla#retracing atla#zuko#racism#no fn character is exempt
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greenteaandtattoos · 3 years
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Listen y'all. All I'm asking for is some basic respect and human decency. Monty wasn't a perfect writer; Miles and Kerry aren't perfect writers. But to use Monty's name as a way to insult them for their mistakes is disrespectful.
When I said:
When you insult Miles and Kerry's abilities as writers, you're insulting Monty, who hand-picked them to work beside him, and who have worked tirelessly to continue his legacy.
I meant actual insults. Criticizing them is not an insult. But if you go around claiming they are incompetent, simply because you don't like the way the story is going, that's an insult.
Claiming that this isn't what Monty wanted, or that Monty would be disappointed in them for how they "ruined" RWBY, is an insult. Monty was more than just the creator of RWBY, he was their friend. So that's a personal hit to them.
You can't go around making insults like these, and then calling it criticism. Because it's not.
It's abuse.
Claiming that they have made mistakes, that they have fumbled on topics, that they wasted potential with certain concepts, that they dropped the ball with certain parts of the story, is criticism. Of course, not everyone will agree with you, but those types of comments are valid, observational critiques.
People need to learn the difference between criticism and insult.
No one is "using" Monty as a shield against criticism. When we ask people not to use his name as a way to insult CRWBY, the writing, and the show, all we're doing is asking for some basic goddamn respect, and if you can't handle that, then you are the one with the problem.
And yes, we will call you out on your bullshit.
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into-daylight-hope · 3 years
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Qui-Gon Jinn: Certified Hypocrite, Fascinating Failure, Mass of Contradictions
For starters, I am just going to let direct quotes from the man speak for itself.
Some excerpts from Master & Apprentice
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Wise words.
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Wait a minute...
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😯😯 What the hell is happening here? All quotes are from the same man in one book.
Qui-Gon Jinn doesn't have an ounce of self-awareness and it is so hilariously terrible.
What is even better (or worse), this is perfectly in line with The Phantom Menace characterization .
I mean,
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Remember when he said all this than spent the rest of the movie obsessing over prophecies, the chosen one and literally the future?
"He still has so much to learn of the living force." Qui-Gon Jinn about Obi-Wan in the council scene
After that scene
"The boy is dangerous. They all sense it why can't you?" Obi-Wan Kenobi about Anakin Skywalker to Qui-Gon Jinn
You see Obi-Wan, Master Jinn here has completely lost any sense of "here and now" between his crusade against darkness and divine mission to save the Galaxy.
This in turn, unsurprisingly blinds him to the fact Anakin is not suitable to become a Jedi. Or at least not ready to directly move on to becoming a padawan.
Anakin himself would suffer in a road that is not meant for him. But he is not planning for Anakin the child. He is thinking about The Glorious Chose One.
He is the chosen one. You all must, see it.
And yet from Qui-Gon's perspective it is Obi-Wan who doesn't understand the Living Force.
I have to say if he is truly a student of the living force as many fans claim he has been failing the class for at least 8 years.
Let's move on to another set of entertaining and horrifyingly oblivious quotes from M&A.
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If you look upward you can observe Mr. Here and Now in his natural habitat.
He really acts like future is set in stone than thinks he is the right person to talk about about concentrating in the moment. Unbelievable.
Let's look at this dialogue again. In contrast with the excerpt from above.
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He is all about the future when it suits him. But when Obi-Wan makes a remark on it he obviously should just focus on the moment. This is actually the third time in this post where he contradicts himself while specifically chastising or criticizing Obi-Wan for something Qui-Gon actually does.
Now I don't think Qui-Gon acts with malice. But it is important to point out his obliviousness has become a way of ensuring he is never in the wrong.
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He suffers from an immense hubris. And a man obsessed with prophecies and chosen ones definitely has some kind of savior complex.
But notably Jinn doesn't actually want to put any effort into enacting real change with his limited yet existent capabilities.
He turns down a council seat in M&A because he thinks it would hold him down. From what? Dear God, the reason they offered him a seat was for different opinions. Qui-Gon can complain all he wants but one time he actually had a chance to make his opinions a reality he freaking bailed.
Why? He doesn't want to face his own limits. He can't bare to try and fail. It is much easier to sustain a superiority complex when you are complaining from the sidewalk.
So he fixates all this belief onto prophecies, visions that will magically cure the Galaxy. And of course his place to help fulfill them. To the point where it is the one thing that keeps him standing.
He has binded meaning of his life and belief for goodness dangerously close to his supposed importance in the Galaxy. (You can feel the influences of his former master)
His absolute refusal to engage with reality turns him into mass of contradictions. Cause he doesn't know what he will find or become if he is mistaken in his belief of himself.
He can't face reinvention on the event of defeat.
But this situation was different. It had to be, because the only thing Qui-Gon knew to be absolutely true was that his vision was real.
Oh by the way, it turned out he misunderstood the vision. But when does being wrong ever stopped Qui-Gon Jinn?
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No words.
Only Qui-Gon could have come near declaring himself a prophet after making a mistake. Maybe stop and reflect man? Just stop and think about your actions.
Obi-Wan Kenobi: I have a bad feeling about this.
Qui-Gon Jinn: I don't sense anything.
Of course you don't.
Honestly he doesn't have much to speak for in the cosmic force department either.
(There is the whole force ghost thing I guess. But I have no idea if that is more connected with living or cosmic force. It seems to be more about spiritual enlightenment. Which is ridiculous when you consider Yoda had go through so many trials, face his darkside, learn to truly let go just for Force priestesses to deem him worthy enough to study immortality. Yes Qui-Gon never became a force ghost but he had started his training before he died. And much of Yoda's tests on TCW was about self-awareness. It is not just about being a good person. How did Force Priestesses approve Qui-Gon "I was meant to misinterpret this vision." Jinn? I would understand if he became wiser after death and faced his flaws and all but he never was on that level before he died. You might say even Anakin became a force ghost. But I would remind you, Anakin in the end broke out of denial, acknowledged the wrong of his ways and took that leap to the light side. Self-awareness seems such an important key to becoming a force ghost. Right there with selflessness. Personally it doesn't quite feel right for a character whose biggest flaws are their lack of introspection and hubris which we never see him rise above to be the one that discovers immortality again. It feels more like a rushed plot point to explain how we get from A to B.)
This post got out of control 😂. I honestly just wanted to point out lack of communication might be one of the reasons Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon have trouble understanding each other but it is sometimes even harder to understand Qui-Gon when he actually says something. Cause ration is not what drives him.
Qui-Gon is such a complex character. He is undeniably good especially compared to other SW characters. Yet for all fandom's deifying he might be the most flawed Jedi we see on the franchise. (The ones that fell to the dark side not included.)
It is a shame wider fandom completely write off his flaws to the degree I can't even recognize the character when they talk about Jinn. Cause that Qui-Gon is so hard to feel empathy for.
When people constantly make statements like "He is The Wisest sw character." his hypocrisy stops being amusing. It doesn't end on screen or page instead often used to bash other characters.
An unbelievable analysis from Wookiepedia:
When Jinn saved the Gungan exile Jar Jar Binks, who in turn swore a life-debt to him, his compassionate nature was such that Jinn took the hapless Gungan under his wing, much to Kenobi's dismay. His empathy toward all life forms, including the most pitiful and unfortunate, was Jinn's greatest strength. Additionally, he remained understanding and patient with Queen Padmé Amidala. During the short time they knew each other, he never asked for her to do more than she was willing to.
You know out of the two, Qui-Gon was the one who insulted Jar Jar to his face. And he didn't took Jar Jar under his wing. They forced him to take them to a city where Jar Jar could have been punished for entering. Now it was the pragmatic thing to do. For all three's survival not for their own gain. Understandable. But compassion is just pushing it.
Also he never asked Padme to do more than she was willing to do?
Padmé : Are you sure about this? Trusting our fate to a boy we hardly know? The Queen will not approve.
Qui-Gon Jinn : The Queen does not need to know.
Padmé : Well, I don't approve.
And he is aware she is the queen, herself. Padme was nearly tearing out her because of this man in TPM.
What is weird, Jinn in his bewildering hypocrisy probably thinks he is being admirably compassionate with Jar Jar, highly understanding and patient with Padme. We clearly see he is not.
Out of universe he has been a force ghost for decades now but fandom is nowhere near acknowledging his flaws than he is.
And honestly SW doesn't have that many major morally complex characters. People like Maul, Palpatine, Anakin,Ventress don't think they are serving a higher purpose or oblivious to the evils they commit.
Emotionally complicated, yes. Going through moral dilemmas, no.
Three major characters come to mind who make huge mistakes, condone or commit atrocities while thinking they are in the right/with good intentions/for a greater cause. With varying degrees of culpability.
Qui-Gon. Padme. Dooku.
In that order.
Let these characters be interesting instead of demonizing nearly inhumanly selfless Jedi characters. (They make mistakes too but funnily enough they are still way better beings than most people on our planet.)
By the way I found the epitaph "Fascinating Failure" from the article here. Especially the last paragraphs make some interesting points. ⬇️
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👀
This post might seem harsh but that is expected since it focuses on Qui-Gon's flaws.
"People are more than their worst act,” Quote from Qui-Gon Jinn in Master & Apprentice
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firelxdykatara · 3 years
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gods, ok, apparently i’m not done.
atla fandom? we need to have a chat.
(....ok that made me sound pretentious as fuck. and maybe i am, but this needs to be said, cause i’m getting....real, real tired of a Certain Corner of this fandom and as a result, this is gonna be a discourse-heavy post so feel free to scroll past if that’s not your bag. as always, my salt posts all carry the catch-all #salt for ts tag, which you’re free to blacklist/filter at your leisure. i’m Very Annoyed at the moment, which will probably come through in the following post, so just. yknow. be prepared for that. or ignore it, that’s perfectly valid too.)
under a cut bc i do care for my followers and their sanity i swear lmao
there’s a real serious issue in this fandom with not understanding what queer terminology actually means or implies, especially when applied to a fictional narrative.
i’m specifically talking about ‘coding’, here. (if i were in a more meme-y mood, i might have said ‘the atla fandom found out about the term “gay-coding” and haven’t shut up since’.)
to the people who say ‘zuko is gay-coded’, i have this to say: you keep using that word. i do not think it means what you think it means. because he isn’t. i’m sorry, but he’s not! and the fact that this is such a prevalent claim in this fandom is distressing, bc it says to me that none of y’all know what gay-coding is or when and how to apply it! please, i’m begging you, go and look up these terms and what they mean and when they should be used before actually trying to plug them into your critical analysis, because when you misuse them and then call other people delusional for disagreeing with you it casts a pall over the entire fandom and is, i think, the root of some of the worst toxicity this fandom has to offer.
and the thing is, there are cases where gay-coding would apply--for instance, a couple series that are famous for queerbaiting their audience by coding their main characters as being attracted to one another (sometimes even despite their openly stated sexualities) come to mind, but those shows bare no similarities at all to atla and how zuko was written and portrayed! (and it would be funny, if it weren’t so obnoxious and infuriatingly wide-spread throughout the fandom, because the only queer couple we actually seen on-screen in either show wasn’t even queer-coded in any respect, and they’re canonically bi! [yes, i’m shading korrasami, or more accurately i’m shading bryke for refusing to give ka the build-up and development they deserved].)
this absolutely isn’t to say that headcanoning zuko as gay is a bad thing or invalid in any respect. (although the tendency for zukka shippers to do this specifically to keep zuko away from katara and/or invalidate his canon relationship/attraction to girls is more than a little eyebrow raising. especially since sokka is usually allowed to be bi, bc fans have no problem letting sukka stay in the background bc it’s no real threat, while jetko shippers are happy to have both boys be bi. [possibly bc katara is less a threat to jetko bc jetkotara is every bit as valid as any single ship between the three, but zukka can’t exactly let katara join in, and if the potential exists for zuko to be attracted to her then canon giving them the far deeper emotional bond becomes a threat to zukka’s existence? idk for sure--you be the judge.]) i prefer to hc zuko as bi (and always have, long before the atla renaissance), bc i don’t think zuko being attracted to boys is outside the realm of possibility, and it isn’t a threat to my ship since zuko&katara had a deep and emotional bond in canon that is very easy to develop further into something that becomes explicitly romantic--but the headcanon itself isn’t really the problem (although what it’s often in service to can be).
it’s the strange insistence that this is the only way to read his character, bc he was coded that way and so anyone who doesn’t see it must be too straight to understand--and i really shouldn’t have to say why and how that is so incredibly fucking insulting. (the ‘hetero lenses’ comment wasn’t cute when it came from bryke six years ago, and the same sentiment being repackaged and delivered by zukka shippers ain’t cute now.)
calling zuko gay-coded not only demonstrates ignorance as to what the term actually means, and how to usefully apply it in critical analysis, but also validates the frankly bullshit insertion of institutionalized homophobia in the world of atla where it was neither needed, nor wanted, nor ever hinted at in canon. as a queer woman i’m still infuriated by one fucking comic panel shoving institutionalized and systemic homophobia into a world where it was entirely unnecessary (and doing this in the first installment of the franchise showcasing a queer relationship??? making korra and asami worried about ‘coming out’ when they could have just gone on to have cute adventures together and tell people ‘hey we’re dating’ and have everyone else be ‘that’s awesome =DDD’ [because it is, in fact, possible to just have a world without homophobia i promise!!!!!] double yikes, i’m still pissed at bryke about it), and i doubly hate that ‘zuko is gay coded’ has become so widespread that ‘ozai hates him bc he’s gay’ has become a staple in that part of the fandom.
not only does making zuko gay and implying (or outright stating) that ozai hated and abused him because of it completely undermine zuko’s character arc by making his abuse about his sexuality rather than ozai’s toxic pride and anger at seeing himself reflected in his ‘weak’ son, but it comes very close to outright stating that abuse and trauma are inherently gay experiences, and they aren’t!!! they really aren’t, i promise!!!
abuse and trauma narratives exist outside of ‘my dad hates me because i’m gay’. and, quite frankly, there are MORE THAN ENOUGH queer trauma narratives out in the world. we do not need to start trying to retroactively make them canon in a series where they didn’t exist! if you’re gay and see yourself in zuko and project your own experiences on him, that’s understandable and valid. that does not make zuko gay-coded. and honestly, the insistence that he is makes very little sense to me, because you’re essentially trying to give the show credit for work you put into interpreting the characters! why would you want to do that? why not own your own headcanons and take credit for them, rather than insisting they are canon and everyone else is wrong for not seeing them??? like, i’ve said before that i’ve always headcanoned zuko (and katara) as bi, and even support it with my interpretations of evidence from the show, but the difference between ‘i think zuko is bi’ and ‘zuko is definitely gay-coded’ is that i know that bi zuko is my interpretation of canon, and that it is work i’m putting into the show that wasn’t actually intended by the creators/writers, no matter how much sexual tension i read into the jetko swordfight.
and like, zuko’s character arc doesn’t actually parallel a queer one all that well to begin with. it’s easy enough to do the work and twist it sideways just enough to make the general points fit, but the fact is, zuko’s arc is not one of self-discovery. it’s not one of coming to understand something fundamental about himself that he can’t change, that he was hated for, and coming out to his father in a dramatic confrontation where he shows that he understands himself and doesn’t need his father’s acceptance to be fulfilled.
zuko’s arc is actually one of trauma and healing. and those can (and often are--like i said, there are more than enough queer trauma narratives in the world, atla really doesn’t need to be one of them) be part of queer narratives, for sure! but they aren’t uniquely queer. and zuko’s confrontation with ozai during the eclipse doesn’t read like a ‘coming out’ at all. (yes, i’ve seen that post. yes, i rolled my eyes and moved on, bc unlike some people, i’m capable of not clowning on correctly tagged posts i disagree with.) zuko is specifically confronting ozai over his abuse, because his arc wasn’t about discovering anything fundamental about himself (and therefore realizing that ozai was hating him for something he couldn’t change)--it was about realizing that he was not at fault for the way his father treated him. it was also about realizing that the fire nation was broken and corrupt at its core, and that his father was an aspect of that he needed to break away from so that he could help the world begin to heal.
he says it himself:
Zuko: No, I've learned everything! And I've had to learn it on my own! Growing up, we were taught that the Fire Nation was the greatest civilization in history. And somehow, the War was our way of sharing our greatness with the rest of the world. What an amazing lie that was. The people of the world are terrified by the Fire Nation. They don't see our greatness. They hate us! And we deserve it! We've created an era of fear in the world. And if we don't want the world to destroy itself, we need to replace it with an era of peace and kindness.
making this about zuko being gay and rejecting ozai’s homophobia, rather than zuko learning fundamental truths about the world and about his home and about how there was something deeply wrong with his nation that needed to be fixed in order for the world to heal (and, no, ‘homophobia’ is not the answer to ‘what is wrong with the fire nation’, i’m still fucking pissed at bryke about that), misses the entire point of his character arc. this is the culmination of zuko realizing that he should never have had to earn his father’s love, because that should have been unconditional from the start. this is zuko realizing that he was not at fault for his father’s abuse--that speaking out of turn in a war meeting in no way justified fighting a duel with a child.
is that first realization (that a parent’s love should be unconditional, and if it isn’t, then that is the parent’s fault and not the child’s) something that queer kids in homophobic households/families can relate to? of course it is. but it’s also something that every other abused kid, straight kids and even queer kids who were abused for other reasons before they even knew they were anything other than cishet, can relate to as well. in that respect, it is not a uniquely queer experience, nor is it a uniquely queer story, and zuko not being attracted to girls (which is what a lot of it seems to boil down to, at the end of the day--cutting down zuko’s potential ships so that only zukka and a few far more niche ships are left standing) is not necessary to his character arc. nor does it particularly make sense.
(and before anyone brings up his date with jin--a) he enjoyed it when she kissed him, and b) he was a traumatized, abused child going out on a first date. of course he was fucking awkward. have you ever met a teenage boy????)
anyway, uh, that was a lot of words, so have a tl;dr: zuko is not gay-coded. there is nothing uniquely gay (or even uniquely queer) about his character arc or characterization, and he was certainly not coded gay in an attempt to sneak a queer character past the censors. if anyone involved with atla was gonna try that, it would’ve been in lok, and as established, they didn’t even manage to queer-code the actual queer relationship before the last few minutes of the final episode. headcanoning zuko as gay is absolutely fine (though if it’s only done to keep him away from female characters he may otherwise be attracted to, that smells more like misogyny than anything else), but insisting that this reading is the only one that makes sense, and anyone who doesn’t agree must be straight (hello, queer woman here making this insanely long thinkpiece) is very much not.
ship what you like, but stop trying to invalidate other ships and other interpretations of characters just to make your ship seem more plausible. it’s really not a good look.
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poisonfallen · 3 years
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Your take on cancel culture and stan culture?
Oh boy, oh boy, it's happening.
Alright, let's talk about toxic people on the internet. And keep in mind that my opinion goes beneath the mcyt community. I feel the same about the kpop community and any other community that is famous for having lots of toxic people. 
Also, keep in mind that this is my opinion about these topics, I don’t intend to offend or misinform anybody. I might be wrong, and if I am wrong indeed, please help me correct any mistake that I’ve done.
Cancel culture
Before ranting about its toxicity, let's understand what it actually means and how it works.
What is cancel culture? 
Well, according to Wikipedia, “cancel culture or call-out culture is a modern form of ostracism in which someone is thrust out of social or professional circles – whether it be online, on social media, or in person” (source). 
Basically, cancel culture is the process of ceasing offering support to a public figure after saying or doing something that is considered objectionable or offensive. 
In theory, cancel culture is a good thing that helps the victims speak up and properly defend themselves, as well as preventing other people from doing the same mistakes. No harm done to innocent people, just a way of saying why a certain person or a certain company has done something that really hurt a category of people. Some even say that it’s an exercise of free speech.
However, while a culture that encourages calling out inappropriate behaviour is important, a culture that is quick to cancel and reluctant to forgive is something that divides the internet and starts wars in the trial of defending an opinion that is not shared by every single person on the internet, thus becoming the thing that its purpose is to defeat. (a vicious cycle of hatred)
So why is it toxic?
From my point of view, I don’t think that cancel culture is a toxic thing in theory. But the way people actually use it is what concerns (and bothers) me. 
In its current form, anonymous and fuelled by negative emotions, cancel culture has the power to destroy a person’s career in a matter of minutes. There are no gray areas, just the white and black pack mentality: “I am right and you are wrong”. 
The subject of the cancelation becomes “cancelled” for disagreeing with a certain opinion, and the cancelled one feels like the whole world is hating them. No one can argue that going through a cancellation, no matter how big or small it is, can severely affect one’s mental health and leave them scarred for life. 
Cancel culture, at this point, is bullying someone famous without facing the consequences. We are already used to surf the web and stumble across someone’s cancelation over something that not even in our wildest dreams we would be able to imagine otherwise. 
I think that all of us are familiar with a stupid cancelation, like canceling someone over a burger that somehow became the sole reason of obesity (see: Dream MrBeast burger). We can’t help but laugh at people trying to cancel someone for a stupid reason. 
But, unfortunately, not all of our cancelations are stupid or laughable. There are people cancelled over their physical aspect or them not being political active, people cancelled over being friends with certain people or over saying something that is now considered to be slightly offensive a few years ago. The ones who are under the spotlight can’t make jokes or take decisions by themselves, they are supposed to be the marionettes of their fans. 
(I do not intend to say that all cancelations are bad, but I’m trying to highlight how the majority of the most recent cancelations are out of place. If someone actually tries to actively harm your minority, your beliefs etc. you should call out that inappropriate behaviour, but without purposely harming that person as a means of payback) 
There is also a toxic behaviour that I’ve noticed in a cancelation: the “I forgive you”/”I don’t forgive you” phrase used by people who have no right to do so. If you are part of the minority who has been hurt, then you have every right to forgive or not someone for saying or doing something hurtful towards your minority. 
But if you are not a part of that minority, shut the f*** up. By speaking on behalf of a minority while you aren’t part of that minority you take away the right of actually addressing the issue from the people who are part of that minority. You can support them from the sides and let them express their pain with their own voice. They perfectly capable of addressing the issue, they need your support but not you taking the spotlight away from the actual problem.
What is my take on cancel culture?
I think that there are more civil ways of resolving an issue without actively trying to destroy someone’s career. Instead of cancelling that person, we could educate them (but not in that harmful way I’ve seen on twitter) on the subject and on why their words or actions are hurtful. 
We should remember that we are all humans and that every human makes mistakes. Don’t forget that children learn by making mistakes. And while I’m well aware that we are not talking about children here, you should also be well aware that we are talking about actual humans with feelings. 
Cancelation should be the last weapon we use, but only if that person refuses to give an apology and educate themselves on the subject. 
Overall, don’t. Just don’t cancel people. Don’t attack people on the internet. Don’t try to harm people on the internet. 
Some of you might disagree with my opinion and I’m open to criticism as long as you can help me educate more on the subject.
Now let’s move on to the other topic
Stan culture
Before I start talking about this one, I’d like to point out that stans actually scare me, a lot. 
What is stan culture?
“Stan culture describes an online phenomenon in which communities of stalker fans, or stans, engage in overly enthusiastic support of a favorite celebrity online (called “stanning”), including at times vehement, coordinated attacks against detractors and critics” (source). 
Basically stan = stalker + fan. 
There are also people who say that the word stan comes from Eminem’s song “Stan” which tells the story of a crazed fan. I do recommend listening to the lyrics of this song if Eminem is not your cup of tea, it’s a good intake in what stan culture was at the beginning of 2000′s.
To be honest, I don’t have anything more to add at this section. Anything more I’d say would, in the end, be the same as what was already stated. (but you can see my opinion on it with more comments at the end)
It stan culture toxic?
You have to live under a rock if you had never seen a stan on twitter or tumblr. You usually recognize them by their profile pictures, the content they share, their posts and their ready to argue behaviour in case you insult or disagree with the ones they worship. 
I’d like to point out that there is a fine line between a stan and a fan: stans know no length when it comes to defending their object of worship and often have really toxic ways of expressing their opinions, while a fan is there just to enjoy their favourite content without engaging in harmful discussion and hate speeches. 
This topic is filled with controversy. In essence, stanning should be a means of showing support. The majority of them don’t even realize the toxicity they spread only after leaving the fandom. 
The real problem here is the moment when they engage in conflicts without entertaining the thought that they might be wrong. Anything they do is right and their object of worship can say or do no mistake. This extends to the point of sending death threats and even doxxing. 
For those who don’t know about doxxing, short for dropping dox: doxxing is an internet slang that means to publish personal information (of an individual) on the internet. You can find more about it here.
With no intend to disrespect or disregard one’s religious beliefs, you can say that stanning is like being part of a religion. The stans are the extremist people who practice that religion, while the fans are those who practice it from time to time (eg. like a Christian who goes to Church only on Christmas and Easter - me). 
In the end, stan culture is toxic to both the stans and celebrities. 
Is there a connection between stan culture and cancel culture?
They are both toxic internet cultures, this one is right for sure.
From what I’ve noticed during my short timed stay on twitter, a lot of cancelations are made by stans from the same community or different communities. 
I’m part of mcyt community, so I’ve seen a lot of Dream fans and Dream antis fighting over the past months, trying to cancel each other and harm each other. It’s mental seeing people actively trying to do these kind of things just because they love or hate a certain person. Of course that we can’t tie the situation to a certain content creator. 
I know that his also happens a lot in the kpop community where stans are in a constant fight to destroy the career of each other’s favourite idol group or bias (someone's most favorite member of an idol group). 
What is my take on stan culture?
I feel like I need to repeat myself: stans scare the s*** out of me. 
It’s like their sole purpose in life is to support someone and don’t have the basic sense of boundaries. A lot of problems arise with this: like shipping people who are uncomfortable being shipped with, intense sexualizing (sexualizing the minors is the worst from my point of view), creating drama and intentionally ignoring real world problems just to make their favourite person(s) trend, and the list is so long that I feel like I’d create a record on tumblr for the longest post if I go on. 
We are talking about some weird adaptation of Lord of the Flies where children raise each other on the internet. It’s like a cult and they are brainwashed into believing what everybody else thinks. And the worst part is that I don’t think we’ll ever get better from this, things are only going south to heaven. 
I might be wrong and biased, so I do expect someone to help me understand these topics better, but for now these are my firm opinions. 
I’d also like to clarify, once again, that in the religion example I’m not making fun of Christianity, I’m just using it as a means to help people better understand my point.
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daisybrekker · 3 years
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This may be a sort of controversial opinion, but I feel like even if you disagree you can do so respectfully and that’s why I love your blog so much LOL I think Sarah has always written with adults as her target audience and that that should be kept in mind when reading her books. Yes, the original trilogy is considered YA, but I think it’s very obvious that they are categorized like that because of outstanding factors (like misogyny in the book industry). I don’t really think the categorization matters so much, honestly I’m of the mind that people can read what they want.
However, something that really grinds my gears about this fandom in particular is the need for everything to be politically correct. I mean, I don’t think the book should promote ideas of racism, sexism, homophobia, etc. but what makes characters in great series so amazing is their ability to be multifaceted. For example, Rhys. I loved him in the original trilogy and I hated him in ACOSF and I honestly found that to be refreshing in the end. Nobody is perfect and that’s what makes these characters real and relatable. You know how boring it would be if we had all the characters making the correct choices? I just think people in the fandom are SO quick to call something in the books or even another fan “racist” or a “pedophile” and don’t realize the weight that these words hold. They’re thrown around so carelessly and those are serious accusations to be making.
I really feel like if you can read books that are clearly aimed at an adult audience, then you should be able to think critically about the content and be able to process the information and hold conversations with others like an adult. If not, then you’re not ready for it.
(For some context, I’m 25 and many of the blogs I see saying these things are older teens, but still minors nonetheless)
Hello anon!
Exactly! I genuinely don't understand why some people get so frustrated over a difference in opinions. If you want to discuss them in a kind manner then that's great! But when people start mocking you for what you think or just become very aggressive then that's where I cut the line because it's clear those people will never learn.
As for SJM's target audience, I partially agree with you. I feel like she's always been on that borderline between YA and NA when it comes to the Original Trilogy.
However, I wholeheartedly agree with you on everyone wanting everything to be morally & politically correct!
For example, many Anti-Elriels have been saying that our theory about the forbidden love trope won't happen because in the process, Elain would end up hurting Lucien and that's "out of character".
Firstly, how do we truly know what's out of character for Elain? SJM has hinted multiple times that we're yet to see Elain's other side so it's clear we don't know her character in depth, yet.
As for Elain hurting Lucien, people make mistakes, do they not? Do these people really believe that every character is going to think about how their actions impact others constantly? That characters like Elain won't maybe decide to be selfish for once and do something for themselves only?
As you said, no one is perfect and besides, if every character did the right thing, there would be nothing interesting in the books.
I just feel like people want to "cancel" anything that seems even the slightest bit wrong just for the sake of it. I have nothing against younger people reading books like these and getting involved in discussions about them, but they need to realise that not every character is going to have the same values and morals as they do.
There have been and will be many moments where the characters they love/hate will do problematic things but some readers definitely blow it out of proportion.
I also completely understand your point about many readers using words that they clearly don't fully understand.
Did you know that in many (unfortunately not all) countries, if someone is racist then they are considered to have committed a hate crime?
And do you know what that means? That every single time you call someone a racist, you're accusing them of that.
And I can tell you for a fact that there have been plenty of instances where people in this (and many other) fandom have wrongly called eachother racists, ableists, pedophiles, etc.
There are some words that have been used as little insults and mean nothing, but those mentioned above? A completely different story.
If you're someone who frequently uses these words (even in jest) then I urge you to please educate yourself and truly understand what qualifies and what doesn't for their use.
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lunarfly · 3 years
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Honestly, you should check out this Dante Wood fella on Quora. He’s this multi potterhead ship hater who asks many rude and insulting questions on Romione, Harmione, Hinny and Dramione shippers. He’s literally become the bane of their existence. I almost would feel bad for them but then I realize these are the same users/shippers that ask insincere questions to the other ship/shipper. Guess karma is a bitch;)
Hello, thank you for the ask!
Yeah, I checked out his profile and I'm not so impressed. He's hateful and spiteful. But I must admit, he has got a very fair point. Before I talk about that though, I'll just bring up a few things:
Even though he often underlines very important issues with our fandom's "ship wars," his account still shouldn't exist. He's rude and he goes the wrong way about sending his messages. He keeps spitting venom out of his mouth when he should try to be logical and explain his points without any insults and attacks. But when do respectful people ever get anything, it's always the drama and over exaggeration that draws people's attention.
He's hypocritical. He says he hates the fact that shippers constantly generalize the other sides of the fandom but he also generalizes shippers himself. He calls out shippers collectively, as if we were all to blame for a few people's toxic behavior and generalizing tendencies. He generalizes us (the shippers) by saying we all generalize each other (the other shippers).
He hates on Harmione/Romione/Hinny/Dramione and only justifies his hatred by the shippers. But just hating it isn't bad at all, everyone's allowed to hate something. The thing is, he also claims that all of these ships "suck" and are all "garbage." He never presents any arguments or constructive criticism, he just says they're objectively bad ships because they have bad shippers. I'm pretty sure everyone can see the problem with this logic.
Now about his messages. I must say, I agree with him a whole lot. So many people in this fandom tend to generalize everyone. Examples of this?
"Harmione shippers haven't read the books! They only ship it because of the movies!"
"You only ship Hermione with ___ because you use her as a self-insert tool! You ___/Hermione shippers only want to project your own feelings onto her, you don't actually understand her character!"
"All Romione/Hinny shippers are toxic! None of them respect our ship!"
"All Harmione/Dramione shippers hate Ron and Ginny"
And much more.
While many of those claims do apply to many shippers, they don't apply to everyone. And generalizing a group of people while talking about them negatively is obviously wrong and harms both sides of the "war."
The ridiculous argument that "Harmony shippers haven't read the books" started (or gained popularity) in 2005 when J.K. Rowling said this in an interview:
JKR: Well I think anyone who is still shipping Harry/Hermione after this book –
ES: [whispered] Delusional!
JKR: Uh ’ no! But they need to go back and reread, I think.
That one simple comment still affects the H/Hr shipping community to this day, even after JKR admitted the possibility of H/Hr in 2014.. People are still calling us dumb and delusional, people still claim that we haven't read the books - and this argument has been expanded after people started noticing how the movies were sort of pushing a H/Hr narrative - people still make fun of us and many don't take us seriously. But people were shipping Harmione long before the release of the movies and they (including me) have written countless analyses pointing out moments from the books and reasons why Harry and Hermione would make a good couple but this ridiculous generalization, a kind of rumor, is still around and I don't think it's going to leave any time soon.
The Ron and Ginny bashing rumor is more understandable since a huge part of the H/Hr fandom absolutely hate the two gingers and will find anything to tear them down and make them seem as cartoonishly evil as possible. But we still shouldn't apply this to everyone. I, for one, love Ron and Ginny and know many Harmione shippers who feel the same way.
(In the following paragraphs I am talking about the HP fandom generally but obviously these things don't apply to every person individually.)
The majority of the Harry Potter fandom these days only truly accepts book lovers into discussions and their "main" fandom (people who solely make video edits or such are in a different kind of fandom). But everyone who's a book lover and doesn't ship Romione/Hinny or dislikes Ron/Ginny will slowly be forced to either liking these or leaving the fandom. Because, according to most of the fandom, if you don't like these characters/pairings, you haven't read the books, you're toxic and you're stupid. If you like Harmione, you're automatically labeled with "Movie Watcher," "Weasley Basher," "Toxic Garbage." People will start making assumptions about you and your work before they know you. Even if people learn that you're not any of those, these generalizations won't stop. No matter how much you do, no one will take you seriously, no one will care, no one will accept you, no one will explore your work. You will only be acknowledged in the book-loving fandom if you ship Romione and Hinny or if you're an extremely toxic person (that way you'll get mocked for every word that comes out of your mouth, but you'll deserve it if you're really a toxic person). This fandom also tends to misunderstand the words "toxic" and "bashing." Any sort of criticism is labeled with "bashing" and the author of that criticism is labeled with "toxic." Not that there aren't people who are toxic and hateful but our fandom tends to fail to see the difference between constructive criticism and hate.
And there are also those "big" accounts who are praised for every word they say. They can bash any ship or character they want to and the majority of the fandom (the book-loving, canon-ship-loving one that I explained) will agree with it and spread their words around. When they say something about one shipper, it will automatically be applied to everyone who ships that. If they say that any ship with Harry and Hermione that isn't Romione and Harmione suck, the majority of the fandom will accept it as objective truth and since they have most of the fandom supporting them they feel comfortable repeating and accepting these things. As a result of these things being accepted as common knowledge, the people who don't agree feel isolated from the fandom. For example, I do. I follow lots of people who ship Romione and Hinny or love Ron and Ginny because I also feel the same way about these characters and pairings. But I can't go a day without seeing at least one of them degrade Harmione and send hate to the ship + shippers. The more hate my ship gets, the more these rumors, labels and arguments spread around. And Harmione shippers get called stupid for loving a fictional pairing, so I constantly feel invalidated in this fandom, even if no one addresses me specifically. The ideas that Harmione is a horrible ship and its shippers are toxic and so on are so engrained in our fandom that they're seen as almost "rules" of the fandom and no single person can change that. I constantly feel like I'm invalid for liking Harmione and this isn't normal. Our fandom pushes the idea that the only intelligent people are those who support the canon pairings and disapprove of ships like Harmione, Fremione and etc. I understand the hatred against Dramione and every other toxic ship, but I can't for my life figure out why people feel the need to tear down every healthy fanon ship. But they do it anyway. They consider everyone who disagrees with them "stupid" and unintelligent. I feel like I don't belong every time I see comments like "Ugh, how can someone ship Harry and Hermione? They're like siblings, people! You clearly haven't read the books." or "Anyone who ships this doesn't have a brain, they're too strongly influenced by the movies. They clearly don't understand Harry and Hermione." Sometimes I see my own friends calling H/Hr "strange" and such and they clearly don't help me feel any better. I feel the need to go in Harmony-only spaces to recharge myself and regain the confidence and get the validation I need. Otherwise, I feel completely isolated and invalid.
I can't blame only one side of the fandom though. The shippers have been divided for decades now and they have been throwing insults at each other ever since. It's a never-ending war. The bad side of this today is that the book-loving fandom (the "main" fandom) has merged with the canon ships fandom and now these are inseparable. If you like the HP books, you must also like the canon pairings and dislike most of the others, otherwise you're never going to feel like you belong. So now anyone who ships Harmione won't be able to properly interact with the "main" fandom because nobody thinks their opinions that Harry and Hermione are a better match than Ron and Hermione are valid. Same thing with Dramione shippers. Do you see how Dramiones and Harmonians don't really engage in discussions or just don't interact with the "main" fandom in general (unless they're defending their ship)? They have created their own spaces, separated from the "main" fandom and that's where they are most of the time. That's where I go when I need more positivity and validation. I have the discord server and the Harmione subreddit to go to. That's the only place I'm really comfortable in. If I go to a more "general" part of the fandom like the main HP subreddit or some of the biggest HP books fan accounts, it will affect me negatively because I will mostly see Romione and Hinny be glorified and Harmione treated like trash. Not only my ship but also the shippers. Which is probably the main reason I find the fandom toxic. All of this just ties into the stupid generalization and name-calling that causes the rift between OBHWF and Harmione shippers which leads me to seeing both sides of the fandom be attacked and bombarded depending on which space I choose to spend my time in.
I'm not going to pretend that the Harmione fandom is full of angels who are oppressed by Romione shippers. Because whenever I go to a Harmione-oriented space, I will find anti-Ron/Romione/Hinny/Ginny (and their stans) posts. Harmonians will often call Romiones toxic and hateful and will basically do everything in order to insult them. And they return the favor excellently. This happens with the majority of the fandoms so both of the sides just think every shipper is like the toxic shippers they interacted with, causing generalization and all of the problems I talked about above. And that forms a toxic environment.
I generally just talked about my experiences with generalization and insulting but there are many more things wrong with the fandom, so I definitely agree with Dante Wood in that aspect. But again, I don't think every single shipper is toxic and hateful and I most certainly don't think that Romione, Harmione and Hinny are trash (Dramione just might be). I pointed out all of my reasons for disliking his account at the beginning of my post. I just wish he fixed those problems with his account, then he would have such a great one.
I almost would feel bad for them but then I realize these are the same users/shippers that ask insincere questions to the other ship/shipper. Guess karma is a bitch;)
Here's where I get confused. Why did you send me this message? I am not one of those people who go and attack a part of the fandom I disagree with. I don't constantly attack Romione and Hinny, nor their shippers. I actually love those ships. I might criticize Dramione and other toxic ships but I'm not the one at war with them. I know I wrote a post basically calling Dramiones brainless once and I regret that. I think I'm a better person now. No matter how much I hate this ship I won't send hate to its shippers (P*dophilic ships are a different deal though, those ships are even more serious). So how exactly is this a consequence for what I've done when I've done basically nothing? And even if I did, how is Dante Wood's account supposed to affect me? He talks about the toxicity of shippers while being toxic and hateful himself. Am I supposed to take that seriously? He calls us hypocritical and proceeds to do the same himself. That's not the kind of person I take criticism seriously from (ignoring the fact that many of his posts aren't even criticism, it's just hate).
Anyway, thank you for taking your time to send me that message! Sharing my thoughts on Dante Wood's thoughts and account was fun! :)
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sophfandoms53 · 3 years
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So would you say Dewey and Louie were the most consistently well written characters on Ducktales from start to finish with his arc overall? Considering how others either were not focused enough (Huey, Donald, Della, and LP), had not so good writing in the finale (Scrooge/Webby), and a bit of both (Beakley), those two seems to be the consistent ones.
Anon, honestly, I would love to agree with you about both Dewey and Louie in this regard, unfortunately, there’s a slight issue.
Louie’s character in the sense of his arc was handled very well throughout seasons 1 and 2, and throughout the majority of season 3. However, there are two episodes where Louie’s writing hits a bump in season 3, those two episodes being The Trickening and Fight For Castle McDuck.
Ironically, the two episodes from this season (outside of the finale) that caused the most discussion and uproar in the fandom.
While Trickening doesn’t mishandle Louie’s character as poorly as Fight for Castle McDuck did, it doesn’t change the fact this episode is the source of this writing issue involving Louie’s character, at least where his treatment of Huey is concerned.
Now in these two episodes we see Louie having issue w/ Huey’s planning/schedule tendencies, something Louie is very well aware that his brother does and that it’s a source of comfort for Huey, so it’s a little odd seeing Louie have this sort of animosity towards this rather normal behavior Huey displays.
In Trickening, Louie’s seen mocking Huey’s attachment to the JWG (again something that is a comfort for Huey, and Louie KNOWS that) and then getting extremely upset at Huey for lying about his awareness of the existence of the haunted house and immediately jumping down Huey’s throat about being selfish and for lying (the former is false and absolutely the last thing Huey is, and the latter, while true, Huey had his reasons for why he lied) and while an upset response to Huey lying is a normal reaction, it coming from Louie is a bit odd.
Louie’s anger towards Huey is over a minor harmless lie and could’ve just been solved with a simple “Huey, why did you lie?” and insert Huey’s explanation, but we have an episode length to fill so we gotta have some tension through a misunderstanding and then at the end we can have people finally communicate. As much as I’m being sarcastic, I do really like that scene of Huey and Louie talking and apologizing for their respective actions, and both coming together over their love for each other and for Halloween, the biggest holiday they had together w/ Dewey before going to the mansion, but it is slightly frustrating watching this inorganic Louie vs Huey conflict that is actually handled better in another episode, I’ll get to that later though.
Let’s talk Fight for Castle McDuck, holy crud is this episode a mess. Not even just with Huey and Louie’s plot, but Dewey and Webby’s as well as Scrooge and Matilda’s plots are so unbearable to watch. I rewatched this episode recently and I cannot tell you guys the amount of times I wanted to break my television over practically every single characters behavior in this episode, save for Dewey and Huey who were completely fine in the episode, but everyone else? OH. MY. GOD.
Critiquing the problems on this episode can be a whole discussion in itself, and I might do that, but right now, let’s focus on Louie in this episode.
Louie has the same issue with Huey that he had in Trickening, so essentially it’s a “we’ve done this plot before but let’s do it again except slightly differently” type of plot, nothing wrong with those, except Louie is uncharacteristically mean to Huey throughout the episode, like, borderline how Huey and Dewey treated him in Other Bin mean, and we all know how I feel about Other Bin.
Just at the start of the episode Louie yells at Huey by saying, “No! BAD NERD.” And that’s just a line that doesn’t sit well with me, like Louie, Huey isn’t a dog, there was no need for such a line. And then later when Huey is explaining his plan to find the bagpipes, Louie is dozing off and explains how he’s taking a Huooze, something he does when Huey explains nerd stuff, except Louie’s never done that before or after this episode so that’s always fun. Louie is just not giving off good vibes the entire episode, and I understand the lesson Louie was meant to have is sometimes doing things the easy way isn’t always the best way, and that lesson is fine, but they didn’t need to execute it the way that they did.
Not to mention how this plot, which is completely disconnected to Dewey and Webby’s & Scrooge and Matilda’s plots, suddenly gets dragged into those two plots because this is season 3 where comedy is our passion so let’s have every single character be overly dramatic and insult everyone around them despite us being family and then after everyone’s been absolutely awful to each other, let’s not apologize no, let’s just act like this was a normal lesson in family’s fight but we can work through it and be stronger because of it! AND OH MY GOD NO NONE OF WHAT HAPPENED IN THIS EPISODE WAS A NORMAL FAMILY FIGHT. PLEASE DONT TELL YOUR AUDIENCE OF CHILDREN THIS IS NORMAL.
AND THIS ISNT EVEN SCRATCHING THE SURFACE OF HOW AWFUL WEBBY’S BEHAVIOR IN THE EPISODE WAS AND-
Okay okay, rant for another time, back to Louie.
I bring up Trickening and Fight for Castle McDuck as examples as bumps in Louie’s writing because outside of these episodes, Louie is written rather well and very supportive of both Huey and Dewey’s comfort tendencies, Huey w/ his JWG and Dewey w/ his thirst for attention/validation.
Focusing on season 3 episodes specifically, in Challenge of the Senior-Junior Woodchucks Louie is the only one who actually helps Huey feel better about not having the guidebook with him, he even calls Huey “king-nerd” in a very kind way, then in Lost Harp of Mervana Louie learns from Webby’s optimism that sometimes looking for the best in people isn’t so bad just as Webby learns that sometimes people don’t always have your best interest from Louie, that’s a balance in their dynamic and is done very well, and finally in Rumble for Ragnorak Louie’s behavior is reliant solely on knowing Dewey his whole life and exactly how his brother is going to react when being put in front of a crowd, and because of how well Louie knows Dewey, when his older brother is doubting himself, Louie has learned the best way to get Dewey back to himself by telling him “Let’s Dewey it.”
Louie’s grown a lot and he understands his family incredibly well, so seeing that aspect of him disappear in two episodes, while minor, still sucks in the sense of character consistency.
There is an episode from season 3 that does this conflict between Huey and Louie really well and it’s Let’s Get Dangerous, the reason being: Louie doesn’t mock Huey in this episode for his JW tendencies or questions, instead, Louie just straight up tells Huey that not everything has be a problem or a mystery, which ironically leads to Huey discovering the problem with Bulba’s machine and that it was part of a lost mystery that Finch was searching for. That’s exactly how Louie should react when he feels Huey’s want for answers can get in the way of him getting a quick fortune. Not mocking his brother for comfort tendencies he is well aware his brother has.
Overall, Louie has been well written throughout the series but we can’t ignore how the writing for him in both Trickening and Fight for Castle McDuck mess up his rather solid consistency.
Now Dewey’s character arc and development can also be an entire post like this as well as I genuinely feel, favorite character bias aside, Dewey is the best written character in the entire series, and I mean that from a writers and critic’s perspective.
But like I said, that can be a whole other discussion.
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itsclydebitches · 3 years
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The lack of action from our "heroes" is eerily similar to a Nostalgia Critic sketch I saw when I still watched his show. The idea was that to parallel what was reviewed in the episode, Fantastic Four, where the heroes barely did anything for most of it, Doug and his friends got superpowers and only choose to sit on the couch and watch Netflix while the world is under attack. The only difference is that was meant to lampoon the movie, and wasn't meant to be taken seriously.
Massive replay incoming! I haven’t seen the Fantastic Four, but I do still have a lot of thoughts on this choice and how badly it came across... 
Though we can absolutely debate the merits/detriments of having 3/4ths of your title characters keeping to the sidelines while the Big Bad is here, I 100% believe that this could have been improved immensely if RWBY a) were more consistently written and b) allowed its characters to tackle conflicts central to what’s currently going on, not conflicts made up just for the sake of having a conflict (Yang randomly fights with Ruby, Ren has criticisms and then never brings them up again, etc.) 
So what do I mean by this. I mean that the fandom isn’t necessarily wrong to argue things like, “RWB needs to be there to help Nora and Penny” or “They need time to regain their aura.” The problem is that the show never established these needs as necessary. The viewers have simply assumed those needs are there and judge the group’s actions accordingly. But for those of us asking questions like, “But how does Ruby standing by the window benefit Nora?” or “How long does it really take them to regain their strength?” we’re never given answers and thus are left with the belief that these needs do not exist and the group’s choices are not justified. It becomes, as you say, akin to a parody. 
So how do we fix this? By having the show acknowledge those questions and provide believable answers. A few minor tweaks might include: 
Having someone ask how long they’re just going to sit there. Let another character argue that they need to rest up before they do anything else. They can’t help others if they’re collapsing themselves. Then, keep these limitations consistent across the volume. In the last episode, Ren was suddenly using his semblance again, despite his aura breaking with very little time having passed between the two moments. So if he only needs a tiny chunk of time in horrific conditions to recover, why does team RWB supposedly need the whole day and night in complete safety, with heat, food, etc.? If “We have to recover” is meant to be a justification, show us elsewhere what lacking that results in: Ren, Jaune, and Oscar do not get their aura/energy back, they’re making mistakes, at the end of their rope, and generally not functioning because look, their conditions are so much worse. This is why a mansion break is necessary. 
Have the group actively be trying to solve their problems. We didn’t start with “Someone needs to watch over Nora” we started with “Nora is incredibly injured and needs help”... but no one ever tried to get her help. Have them cycle through and reject some possibilities. Then have Weiss think of calling Klein and approach Whitley to see if he knows how to contact him. There, your protagonists are active and Weiss is helping to repair this relationship. As it stands, the group appears content to continue sitting around while Nora suffers, despite knowing she needs medical attention. We know, emotionally, they’re not actually content, but that’s what the actions imply. Where’s the scene where Ruby frantically asks May if the Happy Huntresses have any doctors and is it possible to bring one here? Where’s Blake hesitantly asking if it’s worth going back to Ironwood to get her help? The fandom assumes that sitting in the mansion = devotion to helping Nora, but we don’t actually see them trying to help Nora. Not in any meaningful way beyond putting cold towels on her head. What are they willing to risk and sacrifice for their teammate? Because sitting drinking tea while they hope things will magically fix themselves doesn’t convey much. We’re not talking here about how much the fandom assumes the group will do for Nora, we’re talking about what their actual actions read like. 
Establish then why it takes three powerful fighters to watch over one unconscious woman already being cared for in a comparatively safe environment. The fandom acts as if Nora is a target when she’s not. No one is explicitly after her. If anything, given the initial assumption that the Hound was after Ruby as a SEW, she puts Nora in more danger by hanging around. Have the group debate the merits of being here to defend her if, by chance, something happens vs. putting their skills to use during a battle where very few huntsmen remain. 
This debate should include the fact that half their team is missing. Not gone, missing. Last RWB saw they were going down to Mantle to help with general needs and low-level grimm activity. Now they’ve been MIA for hours. Blake, as the assumed love interest, and Ruby, as the sister, should be particularly desperate to find out what’s happened to Yang. If the group has to stay in the mansion for plot reasons, have Weiss talk them out of running into Mantle without a plan. What if what happened to the others happens to you too? The point is, May shouldn’t be the one concerned about the rest of the team and May shouldn’t be the one out looking for information. 
Let the group actually decide something for once. Show us that they were going to help Mantle or Atlas and then, oh no, Penny interrupted those plans. As it is though, that scene frames it like Ruby will happily continue hanging out in the mansion until something else  — something more dangerous than May’s demand to choose  — forces her to take action. Indeed, that’s precisely what happened with the Hound. 
Have Weiss or Blake begin to question why Ruby isn’t doing anything. Weiss has a whole conversation with May about how she wants to protect her home now. Blake is all about faunus rights and protection, with a whole faunus population freezing to death down below. Have one of them threaten to walk out, or actually do it with a, “You don’t need me to watch Nora sleep. I’m going to go do what I can.” These characters are supposed to be people with differing motivations and goals, yet whenever that should matter they’re suddenly happy to follow Ruby, even if by all logic there should be disagreement. 
Have Nora wake up and tell them to do something other than waiting by her bedside. Let her be the one to get them back on their feet, showing them that she’s fine  — she will be fine  — and imploring them to help even though she can’t right now. 
Explain to the audience what the group plans to do with all these civilians once they’re in the ships. Are they coming to the mansion? Try to fly them out of the kingdom? This is the one thing they’ve done since Amity and we’re given no indication what the actual plan is, let alone any debate about its merits. 
Have Ruby be the one to see Penny in her controlled state, not Whitley, and give us some insight into what that means for her. I’ve likewise seen a lot about how Ruby doesn’t just need to look after a sick Penny, she needs to be there to protect Penny and others from her... but does Ruby even know what’s going on? Penny clash-lands without an explanation, she’s busy with the Hound, Whitley and Willow see her heading to the vault, the Hound knocks Penny out, Ruby is distracted by reunions and Ironwood’s threat. The imagined scene where Ruby learns what’s happening to her friend and weighs the dangers of leaving a controlled Penny alone in the mansion are just that: imagined. 
That’s really just a small sampling of options here. As said, there are plenty of ways to tweak this plot to make the heroes seem far less passive than they come across here. The fandom often claims that those who criticize this plot-line don’t understand “show don’t tell.” Meaning, RWBY supposedly showed us something rather than telling us in a hand-holding way and we just didn’t understand it. It becomes more of an insult than an argument, the claim that RWBY wrote something nuanced, it’s not their fault you couldn’t grasp it. But it’s not that we missed the answers here, they simply don’t exist, and the fandom has made up their own answers instead, mapping it onto the canon and assuming that’s what RT intended all along. One individual’s ability to come up with a answer does not mean the story actually gave one, it just means we’re all writing RWBY fanfic in our heads while we watch the show. 
And this is by no means an isolated incident. It happens every episode. Our latest bout of headcanons has come about due to the questions, “Why does kinetic energy only hurt grimm?” and “If it only hurts grimm, why was Hazel supposedly destroyed?” Each viewer is providing a different answer  — “Kinetic energy is different in this world,” “It has to do with the amount of dust in Hazel’s body,” “The blast went in one direction, towards Hazel, and decimated everything in its path, but the aftershocks only hurt grimm”  — all of these complicated, unsubstantiated, and ultimately noncanonical explanations... rather than just saying, “Yeah, it doesn’t make sense based on what the show has told us.” The mansion issue is just a particularly egregious example because we recognize that there’s a major problem with taking your main characters out of the action like that. Yet rather than acknowledging the problems with the writing, many fans are determined to fill in those answers themselves until it makes sense. And it does make sense! So many of these explanations would work, but right now they do not exist within RWBY. If we’re supposed to have an answer like, “The group knows they need to go help, but they’re just too traumatized and exhausted to do it. They know it’s wrong, but they can’t move” then tell us that. Show us that. Make it clear for the audience what the takeaway is. Because when you leave it entirely up to viewer interpret, you might indeed get a lot of “They’re just traumatized and need a break” explanations... but you’ll also get a lot of, “Wow, they’re a really cowardly and callous group, huh?” explanations too. One half of the fandom shouldn’t be mad at the other half for interpreting a completely subjective plot-line differently from them, everyone should be mad that our writers didn’t bother to include the canonical explanations from the get-go. 
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galaxythreads · 3 years
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Suggestions on how to improve fanfic writing:
I was talking with @angelfishofthelord recently (not that recent, time is a concept that escapes our collective grasp) and I jokingly suggested that I make this post. I am in the middle of an insomnia night, so. Here be us.
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Characters use the same nicknames and phrases inside their head as speaking. This doesn’t necessarily mean they’re sharing the humor they’re speaking. I.g.: For SPN, I see a lot of people write Dean as a little careless in his POVs, because that’s just how he portrays himself, but Dean, I think, while having a dark sense of humor, isn’t actually very funny in his head. Same goes for MCU and Tony Stark. Funny characters does not always equal happy head space. :)
Nicknames--this used to bother me to no end, because nicknames were never something in my family, and people shortening down the names felt wrong. But you nickname what you love. If someone has given a nickname (and not in mockery) to a character, chances are, they call them that in their head. Like in MCU Clint calling Natasha "Nat", or SPN Dean and Sam calling Cas "Cas" however, with that said, unless the nickname is self chosen, most people will use their full name when narrating. Castiel, Natasha, etc.
Headcanons! This is going to sound a little backwards, but headcanons have always helped me sort between characters. I know that some fic authors are very against headcanons, but to me, you HAVE to make these characters and their world your own, at least a little. You need to understand how their brain functions, and headcanons are a wonderful, wonderful way to do that. So long as you can conceivably fit them into canon, I think you’re good. One of the ones I have about SPN Cas is that he doesn’t actually give off body heat, so he’s constantly room temperature. It’s a detail for people that’s not Cas’s POV to notice. So getting some headcanons like that will help differentiate between POVs because it’s different things for characters to acknowledge.
Mimic writing that you admire. (And ask yourself WHY you like it) I really, really love the way that TFW/avengers team is portrayed in some stories, in others, I’m like “meh.” Write to please yourself, first and foremost, on how to read these characters thoughts. Those who agree with you will flock to be your audience, and they’re who matter.
Language/word choice is really important for POV change. Again, people talk like how they think.
POV change? Treat the character whose POV it is like they are THE most important person in existence. Their reactions get a front seat. Their five senses are your concern. What they notice about a character may not be true, but it's what they notice. They are human, not omniscient, ergo, they'll get things wrong. Even if the story is written with a completely different character in mind, this character is still the most important. POV's time to think, talk, panic, angst, express, etc. That chapter was about how they felt. That’s why sometimes, even if I really do want them to talk or something, a character might think “please don’t say xyz” because THEY don’t want that, and how I feel as an author isn’t relevant here. Remembering that they’re human, and need time to process/react to things is huge.
Practice, practice, practice. It does get easier with time, and effort. I promise. All of you would laugh at my first few weeks of diving into fandoms. That stuff is garbage.
Conscious stream of thought is generally the best way to engage readers, and the most enjoyable. This is how we immerse ourselves into the story. We become a part of it because we follow their thinking. It is always ideal to start where you are the most comfortable, whether that's 3rd omniscient, 2nd person, etc, but, in my opinion, you don't get that true "click" with the characters until you've conscious stream of thought them.
Research. Lots of research. Don't know how long battieres could last in 2002? Look it up. Don't know how to do stitches? Google it. Try to avoid making things up.
Look guys. Everyone understands that you are most likely NOT a doctor or have any semblance of a medical degree. This is fiction. Research what you can, and move forward carefully or vague it out with the rest. The worst that can happen is someone correcting information you got wrong.
Please, please, please stay within the range of human limitation. (Or whatever creature/being you are writing for) You can't lose more than five pints of blood. You CAN die from pain. Infection spreads quickly. I'm sorry. I just. Have read so many fics from newbie writers who push their characters past extremes that is almost impossible. You want to hurt them that bad, break a bone or something. Just. Please try to be realistic. (Don't misunderstand here, I love me some well-done whump.)
Again with the "you are not a professional thing." Those diagnosed with mental illnesses know that you may not be writing from true experience. This is okay. But please, please do not avoid using any words or phrases common with the illness as you try to "vaguely" write it. The more authentic you are, the less likely you will offend someone. Look. I would be so frustrated if someone tried to write about an ED and just... Avoided words like "starve" "binge" and "hungry" because they didn't want to trigger me. Like. Sweeties, I appreciate the thought, I do, but it's more frustrating that you can't even SAY it than actually putting it into your writing. So. Please just. If you're going to write about a mental illness, do so with the intent to WRITE it, not skirt around the bush.
With that, if you are not diagnosed with the mental illness your writing for (or suspect that you have some form of it) that's okay! Google symptoms to get a basic idea, and search for first hand accounts. People's experience is a lot different than the definition. For example, some of the most hilarious people I know are severally depressed, and Google will just tell you they are sad.
Write write and write. You are building a skill. You have to practice that skill frequently.
Do not be afraid to ask for feedback. Betas are wonderful. Asking for advice is wonderful. Being too shy and afraid of criticism for asking for help is perfectly okay. (Hello fellow traveler)
If your search history doesn't have you being watched by government organizations in the next few months, you aren't researching enough. ;)
Take your time. Quality over quantity. Do NOT conform to the update fairy that demands updates frequently. Look. I love my readers. I do. But you HAVE to take your time to finish things in order for them to be worth reading. If this is six hours or six years, that's that.
Do not give everything away. Stop answering questions. We keep reading because we have unanswered questions. Anticipation = good. Knowing everything at once: bad.
Do not put in funny for the sake of funny.
Insults should be insulting, not make people want to cringe and duck their heads.
Dialog should serve as people communicating... Like actual people.
Siblings (unless otherwise said so by canon) DO NOT address each other as "bro" and "sis"
Not a native English speaker? Cool. Natives would love to help you learn their language. :) English grammar sucks.
Analogies should make sense. They should flow smoothly into the writing. If they pop out, you've lost the attention of your writers.
please, please don't glorify rape, racism, homophobia, mental illness shaming/glorification, abuse, sexism, and other crappy things. Thanks. People came for a story, not to get their souls crushed.
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padme-amitabha · 3 years
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Is Anakin a Mary Sue?
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Now it may shock you to learn this but it turns out that Disney Star Wars is kind of a contentious topic. The fandom's been more or less divided between those who like the sequel trilogy and those who like good movies but both groups spend a great deal of time slinging [ __ ] at each other over every form of social media known to man and truly no battleground is more fiercely contested than the protagonist of each trilogy. People who hate the Disney trilogy tend to criticize Rey for being an overpowered, flawless, perfect, invincible and unrelatable character for whom everything just kind of happens with no real struggle or difficulty a Mary Sue if you will.
Meanwhile supporters of the sequel trilogy are quick to leap to her defense usually with one of two potential counter arguments:  1. You just hate strong women 2. So what if she's op as [ __ ] Anakin Skywalker from the prequels was a Mary Sue too and you don't criticize him. You just hate strong women. This argument was brought into sharp focus for me the other day when I was perusing twitter in search of calm, logical, rational discussion about the merits of the sequel trilogy and I chanced upon this little gem of a comment. Ah yes that famously perfect protagonist who wins everything, always makes the right decisions, has a selfless and compassionate personality, and is universally loved and respected by everyone. Well random twitter [ __ ] as it turns out, I am ready to have that conversation right now. So saddle up y'all because the drinker's here to round up this [ __ ] and put an end to this argument once and for all. Let us journey deep into the world of the Star Wars prequels and see if we can figure out whether Anakin Skywalker really is a Mary Sue.
Now in order to do this, we have to nail down what exactly a Mary Sue is. Well according to the dictionary definition it's a term used to describe a fictional character, usually female, who is seen as too perfect and almost boring for lack of flaws originally written as an idealized version of an author in fanfiction. Now the finer points of what makes a Mary Sue can vary depending on who you talk to but after consulting multiple sources and drawing upon my own experiences as a writer, there's a few common traits that I think most people would generally agree on:
1.      Mary Sues usually possess skills and abilities that are not consistent with their situation and personal history. They can do stuff they shouldn't realistically be able to and they can do it better than anyone else.
2.      They usually possess flawless idealized personalities that no real person could measure up to they never give in to negative emotions like anger, greed, jealousy, selfishness or arrogance.
3.      They're universally loved respected and embraced by every good character they encounter even when there's no logical reason for this to happen.
4.      They never get seriously challenged, fail at anything or get beaten by anyone, success and victory come easily to them.
5.      They always make good decisions and strive to do what's right in any situation so why is this actually a problem.
Well I think the answer should be obvious, Mary Sues are boring as [ __ ]. If a character has got no flaws or weaknesses and never really gets challenged or tested by anything then what is there to get invested in?
It's the flaws and failings of a character that make them interesting in the first place and their struggle to rise above and overcome these flaws that make them so compelling. If these things are missing from a character, then there's nothing for the audience to latch onto or care about. There's nothing to like or root for. That's the essence of a Mary Sue and that's what we're going to be looking at here. So, with that in mind let's see how Anakin stacks up against this list shall we?
Point number one: Being overpowered and having abilities that he shouldn't. Now this more than anything else is what people tend to latch onto when they criticize Anakin and who can blame them really? On the surface it seems pretty ridiculous to see a nine-year-old boy doing stuff like this autopilot but let's put it into a wider context, shall we? When we first meet Anakin in The Phantom Menace, he's a slave living with his mother on Tatooine. He's spent most of his life salvaging junk and using it to make new stuff that can marginally improve their quality of life. As a result, he's become pretty good with technology. Well that makes sense, I guess. He's even applied these technical skills to pod racing where he's been fairly successful despite suffering at least one major crash that we know about. Again, this kind of makes sense when you consider he's strong with the force which would likely give him heightened perception reactions and understanding of the world around him, you know qualities that are important to high performance racing drivers. Anyway, his racing abilities allow the main characters to win an engine part that they need to repair their ship as well as enough money to buy his freedom. Sensing his importance Qui-Gon Jinn takes him under his wing and begins to teach him about the force. Remember when older mentor characters were allowed to teach the protagonist things? I miss that. He also takes part in a space battle that destroys an enemy mothership at the climax of the movie. Now as goofy as this scene is in its execution, it's not actually inconsistent with Anakin’s abilities and experiences. If you've worked around technology vehicles and ships your entire life and you can pilot a racing pod to a high standard then it stands to reason that you could probably operate other types of spacecraft as well, particularly if you have a droid on board to manage most of the ship's systems for you. However, for the sake of argument let's concede the Anakin in The Phantom Menace is indeed more skilled competent and capable than your average person.
So, what kind of effect would this have on a young man from an impoverished background suddenly thrust into a much larger world of power, politics and opportunity? Well that brings me neatly along to point number two: Mary Sues are supposed to have flawless personalities never giving in to anger, jealousy, resentment, vengeance or ambition. All throughout the second and third movies in the prequel trilogy, Anakin displays an increasingly severe set of personality flaws that begin to undermine his position in the world and his relationship with other characters. He's impetuous and hot-headed, frequently rushing into dangerous situations without waiting for backup or considering the risk to himself particularly when someone he cares about is in danger. Keep that one in mind because it'll be important later. He's ambitious but also impatient, feeling like he's been unfairly held back by other characters, particularly Obi-Wan Kenobi, and this resentment causes a growing rift between the two men that eventually spills out into open conflicts. Rather than taking the longer and harder path to wisdom and understanding, Anakin wants everything right away. He also cares deeply about people close to him and this attachment often manifests in explosive bites of anger and jealousy when he feels that they're being threatened like when his mother gets kidnapped and killed by Tusken Raiders, causing Anakin to go on a violent rampage that escalates into wholesale slaughter. Afterwards even he's shocked by what he did or when he believes that Padme has turned against him by Obi-Wan Kenobi, causing him to lash out violently against both of them. By this point he's been totally consumed by uncontrolled jealousy anger resentment and betrayal. All of the emotions that lead to the dark side of the force. The point here is clear: if you [ __ ] with someone he cares about then mercy and compassion go right out the window.
All of his skills, abilities and potential which seemed so overpowered and unnecessary in the first movie in fact serve a very important purpose for his character development. They've generated a sense of superiority, arrogance and overconfidence, and a reluctance to listen to criticism or advice no matter how well intentioned they might be. These are dangerous flaws in his personality all by themselves but combined with his overwhelming emotional attachment to people he cares about it creates a potent cocktail of reckless ambition and deep-seated insecurity that makes him uniquely vulnerable to manipulation something which will later prove disastrous because while Mary Sues are universally loved respected and trusted by everyone, Anakin certainly isn't in the first movie. Obi-Wan Kenobi, Mace Windu and Yoda are all against training Anakin to become a Jedi despite his obvious potential because they know he's already too old to be inducted. This lack of early discipline in his life would leave a dangerous gap in his personality, making him unpredictable and less able to control his emotions, two factors which are extremely dangerous for Jedi. These misgivings would carry over to the next two movies where Anakin is elevated to the Jedi high council on Palpatine’s orders but the council itself refuses to grant him the rank of master because they feel he hasn't earned it yet. Now a different man would see this as an opportunity to prove himself by working hard and earning their trust eventually winning them over and gaining the recognition he deserves but Anakin takes this as a personal insult from the council which drives a deeper wedge between him and a Jedi order which he believes will never truly respect or accept him. Wow it's almost like Palpatine knew this was going to happen and engineered the whole thing to pull Anakin closer to him portraying himself as the only one who can help Anakin realize his full potential. It's a surprisingly smart piece of characterization that's completely consistent with everything we know about both men. The higher Anakin rises the more it stokes the fire of his ambition and superiority and the more he comes to see anyone who doubts or cautions him as a threat to his success. This arrogance and overconfidence also causes him to test himself against powerful opponents before he's actually ready for them and unlike Mary sues who easily win every battle they have to fight, Anakin’s recklessness causes an escalating series of losses like here where he tries to take on count Dooku all by himself and it ends with Anakin getting his [ __ ] arm sliced off. But his desire for revenge against the man who defeated him ultimately causes a more powerful and better prepared Anakin to execute him in the following movie, again proving his willingness to give into vengeance and anger even against helpless opponents or here in his climactic confrontation with Obi-Wan where his enemy has the advantage but Anakin presses the attack anyway and well I think we know how that turns out. Just as a side note I love how this carries over to Return of the Jedi. See Luke’s taking the high ground here just like Obi-Wan did.
What we have here is a clear pattern of behavior from a man whose ambitions consistently outstrip his abilities. Rather than demonstrating patience and restraint and taking the slower and harder path to lasting wisdom and fulfillment, Anakin’s inherent character flaws cause him to push himself beyond breaking point with increasingly disastrous consequences which brings me neatly along to the final points: whereas Mary Sues consistently make good righteous decisions and always strive to do the correct thing, Anakin on the other hand demonstrates a consistent pattern of mistakes and misjudgments that ultimately cost him everything. As I've already shown you the flaws in his personality are exacerbated by his powers and abilities making him easy prey for a ruthlessly ambitious man that knows exactly how to flatter his ambitions and prey on his weaknesses this eventually causes him to commit terrible crimes like murdering an entire tribe including unarmed civilians murdering children, executing a helpless opponent, helping to kill a jedi master, trying to murder his own wife, trying to kill his mentor and best friend, joining forces with an evil dictator to overthrow the republic, delivering this scene…
What I’m trying to say with all this is that Anakin Skywalker is the very furthest thing from a Mary Sue that you can get. Trying to label him as a Mary Sue for no other reason than because he's good at lots of stuff demonstrates a complete misunderstanding of what a Mary Sue is and also of who Anakin is. The reality is that he's a powerful but deeply flawed man whose unique combination of circumstances and abilities have created a dangerous personality that's vulnerable to manipulation and corruption his greatest strengths ultimately proved to be his most terrible weaknesses with consequences that echo across the entire galaxy. Now I have my own thoughts on the prequel trilogy as a whole and I’d be lying if I said they were great movies but fundamentally I think the story they tell is actually pretty [ __ ] good and I’m just gonna say it: Anakin’s rise to power and fall to the dark side is a damn good piece of character work that Disney would have done well to pay more attention to. Anyway, that's all I’ve got for today. Go away now.
I would argue the prequels are great movies but he makes some very good points. I have seen so many Disney fans claim Anakin is a Mary Sue, when he’s anything but a Mary Sue. 
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Patton DID Do a Real Good Job
Y’all. He’s amazing, and, frankly, so underrated in that people think he’s in the “basic” favorite pack and thus feel the need to talk about the others instead. Which, yeah I get that (I love the new dark sides), but when tf did it become cool to start actively hating on Patton??
Why does nobody talk about Learning New Things About Ourselves? He was such an MVP there. Healed the stupid rift between logince that had been running for 3+ episodes. My boy: 
- Casually pulled out the perfect toy to calm each person down, easy, like a damn babysitter to the whole crew. 
- Didn’t react poorly when Logan and Roman were straight up childish and rude. Logan repeatedly insulted his song and Roman called them all “fools” for gods sake, and he just kept smiling and told them to continue sharing their feelings. 
- Knew the answer from the beginning and slowly eased the group toward it with a, frankly very catchy, song. 
- Didn’t take offense for a second when Virgil haltingly criticized his behavior. Immediately resolved to change it. Do you know how rare that is? I can’t think of a single other side—or person, tbh—who doesn’t jump on the defensive when criticized.
This willingness to respond to criticism and change accordingly is so Patton. Why do you think SvS Redux ended well? It wasn’t /Janus/. Don’t get me wrong, I love the snek boi, but his plan amounted to “ah yes an opportunity!! dramatic entrance +...convoluted metaphor about life guards??” Not really among the best points made when two sides have butted heads, if you look past the theatrics. 
No, Patton recognized he was coming on too strong in SvS and immediately resolved to “start sharing his feelings in a softer way”. He wasn’t being didactic by any means in SvS redux. Quite the opposite: he consistently says he doesn’t know, attempts to provide an answer when pressed, and only goes full froggo when he’s overwhelmed. That’s why Janus was able to defuse the situation—Patton was unintentionally hurting Thomas and was relieved when he had an opening to relent. He listened to Janus, learned he was right—no matter how hard that should be for the side to which “the heart is stubborn” most applies—and corrected his behavior without being begrudging or insulting.
And then we sometimes treat Patton’s SvS redux behavior toward Roman or Logan as some grievous offense because he ignored them and their feelings? Logan is my favorite character, and even I can admit that he’s often unfair toward Patton, infantilizing him and dismissing his input (“Just ignore him Thomas, you know he always shouts out random things,” etc.). This is less true of Roman, but he too steamrolls over Patton when appropriately motivated (“Perhaps it's best you just stick to knowing the difference between right and wrong,” etc.). Almost everyone ignores Patton and his feelings, y’all. He just takes it with a grin and turns kindness back on any slight.
Patton is arguably Thomas’ most influential side, as the force behind Thomas’ relationships with his friends (which he’s identified as the most valuable thing to him) and the decision to make a massive career change. He’s also implicitly shaped much of the Sides’ world itself, from the creativitwins’ split to the concept of dark/light sides as a whole (helped on by Roman).
But Patton is also SO GOOD at listening and self correcting, and that’s why the “Patton goes full extremist as he happily purges ‘evil’ from the mindscape” thing never works for me. As the Janus arc + Remus intro bring far more moral complexity to Sanders Sides, we just aren’t seeing an inflexible and absolutist Patton. Not that Patton is anywhere near perfect (repression and avoidance central, that boy, and he can certainly misguide Thomas, like all other sides) or that Unsympathetic Patton isn’t a super fun concept to explore in fandom, because it very much is and it’s great so many creators are doing it. That said, we should be wary of conflating this characterization with canon Pat.
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Crescent || Chapter 13
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Fandom(s): ATEEZ
AU: Treasure Hunters
Genre: Action, Fantasy, Sci-Fi
Relationship: Everyone x Everyone, Established Hongjoong x Yunho
Language: English
Status: Ongoing
Chapter WC: 5,954 words
Warnings: Character Death, Stabbing, Fighting, Blood, Aliens, War, Funerals, Kidnapping, Attempted Kidnapping, Mentions of Child Abuse / Child Work, Explosions, Murder Attempt, Robbery, Homeless/Runaway Character, Torture, Mentions of Slavery more will be added.
Chapter Warnings: Mentions of slavery, Mentions of Child Abuse / Child Work.
Summary:
San didn't want to admit it, but he had not only come to care about Hongjoong, but also about what he represented. He cared about the ship, and the crew, and with each passing day he put more sincerity in his job of deciphering the map.
AO3
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Tagged: @angel0taiyo​
Early the next day, Hongjoong called in the most important members of the crew for a meeting. They needed to discuss how they would proceed after the deviation they had taken to save Seonghwa and the rest from the slave traders. Everyone met with him in his quarters, where Yeosang and San were working on the map while they had the meeting.
At first it had been difficult for them to work together, because they had completely different methods. However, once they had learned to work around their differences, they had actually sped up the work and were becoming more and more successful at deciphering the codes ingrained in the map. They had become such a good team that they basically didn't need Hongjoong, but he was still there to offer his help.
"Our expenses are getting a bit out of hand," said Siyeon once the meeting had started and the formalities had been left aside. "It's taking too long to find this treasure."
"I know, personally I also believe it's taken more than I would like it to," Hongjoong sighed. He turned to look at San and Yeosang, and caught them just as they turned back to their work. "Yeosang and San are working very hard in deciphering the map though, and we've made an amazing progress compared to when we first started out."
"I think we'll be better off once we drop everyone off so they can go to their home planets," Yunho intervened, also looking at Yeosang and San. "Naturally it costs a lot to maintain a crew that has doubled in size, but I believe that once we go back to normal, we'll be okay."
"That is a good point," Siyeon accepted. "I'm worried about the fuel though, we consumed a lot of it during the rescue."
"True, while the warp speed helped with the surprise attack and with our escape, it consumes a lot of fuel," Hwanwoong agreed.
"I have word from one of our crew members that we should be able to get more fuel at a better price, I'll talk to them." Hongjoong grinned, already thinking of the first mission he would give to Seonghwa.
As the leaders discussed how they would manage the situation they were in, Yeosang and San worked on the map. Yeosang kind of liked San. He was serious and hard working, and he made Yeosang feel important when they worked together because he was a good listener. But for all he had tried for them to become friends, he wasn't so sure San liked him back. San was quiet and serious, and according to everyone he was always working on the map with Hongjoong, so they rarely ever saw him.
Despite the fact that they were working, Yeosang found it hard to concentrate. He kept listening in to the meeting and looking over at Hongjoong, almost like he was in a trance. Yeosang was kind of Hongjoong's fan. He admired him for his fighting and leadership skills, and also for his kind heart that was always ready for rescuing others. He respected Hongjoong for having saved him and given him a second chance. Yeosang just couldn't stop looking at him.
San noticed this, not only because he was observant, but because he too had caught himself looking at Hongjoong more than once. It was annoying, the way he felt like he was losing control of himself and he couldn't quite understand why. So he forced himself to look at Yeosang instead, which turned out to not be difficult at all. Yeosang was quiet, the bottom of his pen pressed to his lips as his eyes were fixed on Hongjoong.
There were all sorts of things in his eyes, San knew them all too well, since he had used those feelings to his advantage in previous missions. There was admiration and respect in his eyes, but there was also something far more profound. San decided it was yearning. Yeosang yearned for Hongjoong in such an obvious way that it was almost painful to watch. And nonetheless San understood, and wondered if he looked at Hongjoong in a similar way. He hoped not.
He looked back at the discussion group, and his eyes met with Yunho. The First Mate was looking at him with such intensity that, for the first time in his life, San felt vulnerable. He immediately looked away, hoping that Yunho hadn't noticed his reaction. San wondered if Yunho had noticed the way Yeosang looked at Hongjoong. He probably had, because Yunho was observant and protective about Hongjoong, but he wondered if he cared.
San didn't want to admit it, but he had not only come to care about Hongjoong, but also about what he represented. He cared about the ship, and the crew, and with each passing day he put more sincerity in his job of deciphering the map. He worried about conflict arising between Yunho and Yeosang if the first one got jealous over Hongjoong. It was so stupid how his worries had become almost petty when compared to the fact that he had joined the crew to kill the Captain.
Sighing, he went back to his work, there was nothing else to do. He felt Yeosang turn to look at him, felt the worry oozing from him as he wondered if he should ask San about what was on his mind. San hoped he didn't ask, because he would want to tell him. He would want to get all the confusion out of his chest, to just scream it out. And that wasn't what he had been taught to do. Emotions and feelings were a stone that dragged you down until you drowned.
"Do you want to take a break?" Yeosang asked instead. San raised his head to look at him and then looked at the meeting going on. He nodded, and both of them left the main quarters.
--
Once the meeting was over, Hongjoong and Yunho were left alone in the main quarters. Hongjoong busied himself ordering some of the materials San and Yeosang had left behind, to make sure nothing would be lost in the mess of their provisional meeting room. Yunho stood still in his place, arms crossed over his chest and observing Hongjoong critically.
"You know, San and Yeosang wouldn't stop looking at you," Yunho commented. "Especially Yeosang, I think he has something going on for you."
Hongjoong stopped in his tracks and just stared at the table where Yeosang and San had been working. He sighed and turned around. Yunho had been very insistent about this matter for a while now, and it was starting to mess with Hongjoong's head. There was nothing going on between Hongjoong and anyone in the crew, and Yunho knew it.
"Why do you insist so much with that topic?" Hongjoong muttered.
"Because I think you might have a thing for some of them too," Yunho pointed out calmly.
"I don't." Hongjoong said, marking each word.
"Why do you deny it so much?" Yunho put his arms down. "You know I don't mind, why won't you let yourself explore your feelings?"
"Because, Yunho," Hongjoong took a deep breath, "the Hongjoong they know isn't real. We're lying to them, remember? They don't know who I truly am.They can't like someone they don't know."
"Your title doesn't define everything you are Hongjoong," Yunho insisted. "You're more than that, despite what your father has made you think. You've shown them your authentic self, your last name means nothing."
"I'm here to find a treasure and get revenge on my brother's death," Hongjoong was quick to say, his tone was final, "not to collect boyfriends."
"Then make it less obvious, don't give them so much attention," Yunho muttered.
"Who even is 'them'?" Hongjoong asked, a little exasperated.
"San, Yeosang, Mingi, Jongho," Yunho listed, lifting his fingers one by one. "They are the only crew members you spend time with aside from me, Hwanwoong and Siyeon."
"That is-" He wanted to say it wasn't true, but thinking back to it, it kind of was. "Look, let's stop talking about this, okay? It really doesn't matter because at the end of the day we're going back to the castle and back to the war."
"Okay, fine," Yunho gave in, sighing. "Just don't be too hard on yourself, okay?"
"Sure," Hongjoong nodded, glad that the talk was over. "Now I need to go find Yeosang and San so we can get back to work, we're so close to finding the treasure."
"I'll go with you."
-- 
San and Yeosang were just taking a breath of fresh air in silence when Mingi made his way to them. He looked a little wary of San, who did his best to not look intimidating, but only managed to make Yeosang laugh at his awkwardness. Mingi, still a little afraid, looking at both of them in confusion.
"He's not scary Mingi, I promise, he's actually very nice." Yeosang said with a smile, passing an arm around San's shoulders. "He's just really bad at being a normal human being."
"Are you trying to help me or to insult me?" San muttered, glaring at Yeosang. 
"Hmm, whatever makes you feel better." Yeosang smiled. "Did you need something Mingi?"
"Well, actually..." Mingi began, but he couldn't get the words out of his mouth. He was nervous. His heart was making a mess of his pulse and his cheeks were suddenly turning very much red. He tried to speak but stuttered, and Yeosang smiled at him, endeared.
"You can tell me another time, if you want?" Yeosang kind of knew what Mingi wanted to say, because he was very transparent, but he didn’t want to force it out of him.
"No! I-" Mingi tries again, but the fact that San and Yeosang's eyes are focused on him doesn't help.
"Is something wrong?" A familiar voice asked from behind him and made Mingi yelp, surprised by Jongho's sudden appearance. "You seem to be on edge Mingi, is everything alright?"
Mingi liked that Jongho was worried about him. What he did not like though, was how his presence actually made him feel even more nervous and out of control. If Jongho's intention was to help him, he was doing the complete opposite. Mingi was trying so hard to calm down, but now there were three sets of eyes fixed on him, two of them belonging to people he liked. He was not having a good time.
"Oh, Seonghwa!" Jongho exclaimed suddenly, as he spotted someone walking at the other side of the deck. "Come here!" Jongho called over. Seonghwa looked a little wary at first before he recognized Jongho, and gladly walked up to them.
"Wait, Seonghwa?" Mingi's eyes widened, and he immediately took a step forward and grabbed Seonghwa by the arm. "You're Seonghwa?"
Seonghwa looked at him with wide eyes, confused and a little taken aback. Mingi didn't see the way Yeosang tensed up behind him, or how San looked at Yeosang in mild understanding, or how Jongho looked a little disappointed. All he could see was Seonghwa, the person that had worried Wooyoung so much. One of the eight, along with Hongjoong and possibly Yeosang.
"I- Yes, that would be me?" Seonghwa asked, looking towards Jongho for a little help.
"I'm so glad you're okay!" He leaned in closer to whisper to him so the others couldn't hear. "Wooyoung was asking for you last night."
Seonghwa stepped back and looked at him in surprise. He looked at Jongho as well, who could almost guess what Mingi had told him, and Jongho nodded at him. Seonghwa smiled brightly at Mingi, but before he could do anything like ask him his name, Yeosang stepped right in the middle, staring Seonghwa down.
"Uh, excuse me?" Seonghwa asked, a little confused.
"I should be asking that," Yeosang muttered. He didn't know why, but he immediately didn't like this Seonghwa guy. "Who are you? Why are you so close to my friend?"
"I'm your new crew member," Seonghwa raised an eyebrow. "I was not expecting this welcome, with how polite the Captain is. I guess he can't represent all of you, huh?"
"Uhm, guys..." Mingi muttered softly. He didn't understand what was going on, but he didn't like it. Jongho looked just as confused.
"Well, he certainly doesn't represent your kind either," Yeosang bit back, "our Captain is way more humble."
"Look, you little-" Seonghwa began, but he was interrupted by Hongjoong, who was walking towards them while calling their names.
"Glad to see you're all together and getting along!" Hongjoong said, smiling widely, ignorant to the fact that they had been seconds away from jumping at each other’s throats. "Yeosang, San, we need to get back to work."
"Yes sir," they said in unison. Yeosang glared at Seonghwa once before San pulled him away towards the main quarters. 
"Seonghwa, I would like to talk to you later today, put your skills to use," Hongjoong commented before patting the man on the back. "See me later in my quarters, please."
"Of course, Captain," Seonghwa nodded. Hongjoong marched away with Yeosang and San, and Seonghwa sighed. "I better go back to my exercises, the nurse said they would help me recover faster. If you'll excuse me." He gave a slight bow to both Jongho and Yunho, and then left.
"I better go see if someone needs help with their tasks, since I already finished with the ship maintenance," Jongho was quick to excuse himself, but he didn't get to leave before Yunho stopped him.
"Jongho, wait," Yunho said. "Can we talk for a minute?" Jongho looked at him, a bit confused, but nodded nonetheless.
Yunho took him to the forecastle deck, which was currently empty. They leaned against the rail, silent for a moment while Yunho tried to put together what he wanted to say. It wasn't easy talking about his past, but he could still remember what Hongjoong had told him about Jongho, and he wanted to offer his help, his support. He finally sighed and looked at Jongho, giving him a smile.
"Hongjoong told me a little bit about your past," Yunho said, trying to hold Jongho's gaze, but the other looked away instead.
"How much did he tell you?" Jongho asked, feeling a little uncomfortable about Yunho knowing about it.
"Not much, I promise," Yunho sighed. "He just mentioned that you had negative memories related to child work... And I just wanted to say that if you ever need someone to lean on, I'm here for you."
"I appreciate that," Jongho muttered, "but why? We haven't really talked much before?"
"Well, I went through a similar situation when I was a kid," Yunho looked down at his hands, feeling Jongho's eyes turn to him. "I was captured by slave traders and forced to work on the ship as a Powder Monkey; I thought I wouldn't last much if I'm honest."
"Then how are you...?" Jongho didn't want to finish the question. He realized it just was too rude, too inappropriate.
"Alive? Here?" Yunho completed it for him, and then smiled. "Don't be afraid of being crude with me, I can handle it."
Jongho nodded, but didn't really say anything. He couldn't help but feel curious, and wanted to know more about Yunho's story, but he didn't want to rush him or pressure him into telling him more. Yunho seemed like he wanted to speak about it, but he was having a hard time forming the words.
"Well, I've only made it this far thanks to Hongjoong, to be honest," Yunho shrugged, trying to look unaffected.
"You two are dating, right?" Jongho asked. He hadn't wanted to intrude before, but Hongjoong and Yunho had always seemed particularly close, and he couldn't help but feel curious.
"Yeah, pretty much," Yunho nodded. "We've been dating for quite a few years now."
"And how did he help you, back then?" Jongho decided to ask finally, trying to help Yunho get the words out.
"Well, I told you I was forced to work as a powder monkey right?" Yunho confirmed, and Jongho nodded. "There were a few other kids with me, and we were treated really poorly. The royal guard of the Kim Empire detained the ship and rescued us, Hongjoong's family was one of the families that were offering their homes for the kidnapped kids."
"Oh," Jongho's mouth opened in surprise, he hadn't expected that. "They took you in?"
"Yes, I was ten back then and he was already eleven," Yunho smiled. "We clicked instantly, actually, he was the one to 'choose me', when they were finding us a home."
"That's kinda cute," Jongho chuckled. "I can't really picture it, but it sounds nice."
"We became best friends and later on we began dating, and now we're here," Yunho shrugged. "His support has helped me overcome everything that happened when I was on the ship. It's not perfect, but it's better." Yunho looked at Jongho again. Jongho was looking at him, smiling, looking more comfortable and relaxed. "So I want to be there for you, as well."
"Thank you Yunho," Jongho smiled.
"No need to thank me," Yunho smiled. "We're part of Hongjoong's crew, we're basically family now."
--
The day passed and everyone was relieved of their duties as it was time to head to sleep. Yeosang dragged San with him so he would join him at the dinner table with Jongho and Mingi. He had really taken a liking to San, who had become more relaxed around him and talked more than he did before; and now that he knew he wasn't actually scary, he wanted the others to notice too.
San didn't think the same way as Yeosang. Naturally, Yeosang probably didn't have any ulterior motives, so he didn't have to worry about making friends with people that would potentially become his enemies. He wasn't planning on killing Hongjoong anymore, he had come to accept he couldn't do it, but that didn't mean the others wouldn't try to kill him the moment they knew who he was.
Mingi and Jongho were just a little uncomfortable, still unsure about San's presence. Yeosang just smiled at them and San bowed his head slightly as a way of greeting. All of them felt awkward except Yeosang, but he pretended like it was all fine and guided the conversation, trying to make them feel a little more comfortable. And little by little, it worked.
"We haven't really talked about it, how did your side of the rescue go?" Jongho asked, looking at Yeosang and Mingi first, and then at San.
"It went great, Mingi was so cool!" Yeosang exclaimed, a big smile plastered on his face. "He was a bit nervous at first, but you should've seen him installing the bomb." Yeosang smiled suggestively towards Mingi, who turned beet red and just stared at his food in silence.
"I bet he looked really cool," Jongho chuckled. "I had to beat up a dude to save Seonghwa, but other than that I'd say it went pretty well."
Yeosang's expression immediately turned sour when Jongho mentioned Seonghwa, and all of them noticed. San looked at Mingi and Jongho first, who were sitting opposite to him, and then at Yeosang, who was sitting by his side. They had all noticed the tension that had flourished between the two men before, but they had no clue as to why it was there in the first place. San decided it would be best to just change topics.
"I was in the front line, along with Captain Hongjoong and Yunho," San commented, deviating the attention to him.
"No surprise there!" Yeosang commented, glad that the topic had changed. "You're an amazing fighter, I noticed it when you first captured me." San looked sheepish for a moment. He hadn't liked Yeosang much at first, but he was the only one other than Hongjoong and Yunho who treated him normally, so he had come to like him even if just a little bit.
"Sorry about that..." San muttered. "But yes, my father worked in the military and he trained me for a long time before I became a researcher." Those were all lies, but only he knew that.
"What did it feel like to fight alongside Captain Hongjoong and Yunho?" Mingi asked, finally recovering from his previous embarrassment. "I glanced at them when we were going in, and it looked really cool."
"Honestly they're a scary pair, I wouldn't like to go against them," San replied honestly. 
He had observed them fight during the rescue and they were unstoppable when together. They had very different styles though. Hongjoong was like an unpredictable storm, striking anywhere he saw fit and almost impossible to stop. Yunho was more calm and calculating, always knowing where to hit his enemy, which made him an elegant fighter. But the most impressive part was how aware they were of their surroundings. 
They always knew where the other was and were ready to jump in front of a blade for the other, but they also paid attention to the rest of their crew and came to their aid if it was necessary. Just like how Hongjoong had saved him. San found himself telling them as much, unable to hide a certain spark of excitement as he retold what had happened during the battle. He of course left behind the part where he had had a revelation about his feelings.
"That is amazing..." Mingi breathed out, food forgotten on his plate. Jongho and Yeosang nodded next to him.
"I'm so glad Captain Hongjoong decided to take pity on me..." Yeosang muttered. "Yunho was scary when he was interrogating me back when I tried to steal from this ship."
"Hope you've learned your lesson," San said with a slightly mocking grin, and Yeosang punched his shoulder slightly, making him laugh. Mingi and Jongho both stared at him in disbelief, and when San noticed, he looked at them with confusion. "What?"
"You laughed," Mingi gasped. 
"I'm human, of course I laughed!" San exclaimed, in disbelief. "I know I'm terrible at socializing but that's a bit too much." He complained.
"Sorry, sorry," Mingi smiled apologetically. "I'm honestly glad you're talking to us now, you're pretty nice."
"I agree, I feel a bit sorry for misjudging you before," Jongho nodded. "Not that you really knew about it, but still."
"Thanks, I guess?" San was a bit confused about their reactions, and also a bit conflicted. He didn't want them to like him, but he was also starting to wish he could belong in this ship like the others did.
"This is not related to what we were talking just now but..." Mingi began, thinking his words carefully, "when I went to tell Hongjoong about the slave ship, he and Yunho..." He ended up trailing off, not able to continue talking, as he remembered how Yunho had been sleeping shirtless next to the Captain.
"They're dating," Jongho and San confirmed in unison, looking at each other in surprise.
"They are?!" Mingi and Yeosang both exclaimed at the same time, equally shocked by the news.
"You hadn't noticed?" Jongho asked them, raising an eyebrow. It was disgustingly obvious that the two were an item.
"Well, I was suspicious but I didn't really want to assume..." Yeosang muttered, and Mingi nodded in agreement.
"You should have known better when we saw them sleeping on the same bed, with Yunho half naked," Jongho shook his head at Mingi, truly not believing that his friend hadn't thought of it.
"You what?!" Yeosang yelled again, and San was quick to shush him so he would stop screaming and making everyone around them uncomfortable. "Sorry..."
"That's what I was trying to say earlier, but it's embarrassing..." Mingi muttered.
"You get embarrassed too easily," Jongho chuckled.
"Sorry..." Mingi apologized, looking at his food instead.
"No, it's cute, don't worry about it," Jongho looked at Mingi and Mingi looked back.
San and Yeosang looked at them before looking at each other, clearly noticing that something was going on between the two of them. San then looked at Yeosang, because if his suspicion was right, Yeosang liked Mingi, which was why he had acted like that in front of Seonghwa. However, Yeosang was smiling this time, and didn't look even remotely as jealous as he had with Seonghwa. Maybe San was wrong about his theory.
"How did you know about the slave trading ship, by the way?" San decided to ask to change the topic.
"Uhm..." Mingi hesitated, looking at Jongho for help. "I dreamed about it?" 
"That's... interesting," San nodded, but decided not to question Mingi more about it, as it seemed to be making him nervous.
San instantly remembered Wooyoung's visit to his dreams. Of course, that was the only explanation. He had said he was visiting Mingi, Hongjoong and Yeosang as well, and had mentioned Yunho and Jongho as well. He had said that they were supposed to fall in love. San dropped his fork and motioned to stand up. He could feel his own face turning red with embarrassment as he remembered Wooyoung's words and the realization he had felt with Hongjoong. It wasn't right.
"San?" Yeosang asked, looking at him with worry, but San refused to meet eyes with him.
"Sorry, I don't feel too well, I think I'm gonna retire for the night." He explained quickly, picking up his plate and putting it away before leaving the dining hall.
The three of them stared at San as he left. Yeosang made a movement to follow him, but Jongho stopped him right on his tracks and shook his head. Yeosang looked once more to where San had disappeared and sighed, knowing Jongho was right. If San needed time alone then it was best if they gave it to him.
Shortly after they were done with dinner, they went to the deck to walk a little. Eventually, Mingi became too tired and decided to turn in for the night, wishing Yeosang and Jongho a good night and leaving them by themselves. Both of them continued to lap around the deck until they eventually stopped and just leaned next to the border, admiring the emptiness of the space surrounding them.
"Can I ask you something and you try to not get too angry?" Jongho asked. His tone was playful as he was half-joking, but he still hoped Yeosang wouldn't be mad at his question.
"What is it?" Yeosang turned to him, raising an eyebrow.
"Why did you get so angry at Seonghwa before? When I called him over to ask how he was," Jongho looked back at him in time to see Yeosang frown before he turned away.
"I just don't like him very much," Yeosang muttered. "He seems to think very high of himself, or something, and I don't like people like that," he exclaimed.
"I see," Jongho hummed, thinking his answer over, "he does seem to move differently to us."
"Probably not a good enough reason to dislike him, I guess, but I'm a bit impulsive," Yeosang shrugged.
They stayed in silence for another while, both of them just looking out into space. Jongho had worked with ships all of his life, but he had never really been out of orbit for such a long time. It was different to being locked in a workshop, working without rest. That experience had been scary, and he had thought it would never end; but the vastness of the galaxy was a different sort of scary, almost like it was trying to drown him out.
Yeosang on the other hand, had spent a lot of time in traveling ships, accompanying his father at his job when he was a child. He was used to this vastness, to not seeing anything for miles at a time. He was used to not knowing what time it was. To him it had been more scary to think he would never be able to leave his planet again, that he would be trapped inside its limited frame.
Jongho and Yeosang were widely different, and yet something had put them inside that ship. And Jongho was certain they had something in common that neither had expected. He sighed, because he was tired of beating around the bush. The only way to clear his doubts was to ask him about it.
"Are you sure you don't hate Seonghwa because of how he approached Mingi?" Jongho asked again. He put his hands together and did everything to avoid looking at Yeosang, who he could feel staring.
"You're probably right," Yeosang said after a moment of considering his answer.
"So... do you like Mingi too?" Jongho asked, a bit hesitant, not wanting to overstep some sort of invisible boundary. Yeosang let out a deep breath.
"Yeah, a little..." He admitted, feeling himself blush as he looked away.
"Right," Jongho nodded. However, Yeosang's answer only filled him with more questions. "Then... Do you hate me too?"
"What?" Yeosang turned to look at him abruptly. "No! Why would I?"
"Because I like Mingi too," Jongho muttered, blushing as well, but he was still looking at Yeosang.
"I know that, but why would that make me hate you?" Yeosang asked, genuinely confused.
"That is such a double standard..." Jongho muttered, chuckling slightly because of Yeosang's expression. "You don't like Seonghwa who got close to Mingi once but you don't mind me when I just told you I like Mingi?"
"Would you prefer I don't like you?" Yeosang raised an eyebrow, but somehow his expression only made Jongho laugh more. "Besides, you were here before me... I actually thought you and Mingi were dating from how close you were. If anything, you should be mad at me."
Jongho stopped laughing and looking at Yeosang with a smile. He didn't know why he found it so funny, but he did. He wasn't even a bit mad about Yeosang liking Mingi, it was not like he owned Mingi (or like he could own him to begin with). He was also not in charge of Yeosang's feelings, so why would he be mad for someone else liking Mingi when, in reality, it was quite understandable.
"We're not dating, and if you couldn't tell, I'm not mad at you," Jongho shrugged. "That's not how feelings work, I can't control who you like, why should I be angry?"
"I don't know, because I'm your rival?" Yeosang said, but he didn't look convinced at all.
"I'm gonna have to stop you there," Jongho shook his head. "Mingi's feelings are not a competition, and we're not rivals. We're friends Yeosang, and we're just gonna let him figure things out by himself." 
"Okay, yeah..." Yeosang nodded. "That makes sense, thanks..."
"But seriously, don't give Seonghwa such a hard time just because you're jealous," Jongho chuckled, enjoying the way Yeosang's ears turned red.
"He still antagonized me back there so we'll see how I go about that," Yeosang grumbled, crossing his arms over his chest.
"Okay then," Jongho raised his hands in defeat. They didn't say anything else, and just continued admiring the vastness of space.
--
Wooyoung felt urgency as he looked for Hongjoong's dreams. He didn't know why the Universe hadn't sent the vision earlier, but they were in danger and he needed to at least warn them so they could be ready. He had been nervous ever since they had saved Seonghwa, because he had a bad feeling about the results they had obtained, like everything had gone too well. And now he had confirmation that he had been right about being worried.
He quickly navigated the spider web of dreams in front of him until he got to Hongjoong's. The prince was once again dreaming of the life he had left behind, but this time he was in the palace, doing sword training. Wooyoung didn't have time to wake him gently, and instead just barged into the dream causing everything to become black. Hongjoong turned to him with sword in hand, but stopped his attempted attack as soon as he distinguished it was Wooyoung.
"You're finally here!" Hongjoong exclaimed, and Wooyoung could tell by his tone that he wasn't too happy about Wooyoung being radio silent for so long. "It certainly took you awhile, huh? Are you finally here to tell me what the heck is going on?"
"I promise I will but right now it's not the time!" Wooyoung exclaimed, walking closer to Hongjoong.
"Oh, come on, are you going to ask me to save someone else?" Hongjoong sighed. "Mingi said you told him we were supposed to be eight in total, it would only make sense if you need me to find more people." Wooyoung shook his head.
"None of that, everyone is in your ship now, except for me," Wooyoung breathed in deeply. "But that doesn't matter right now! Listen to me!"
"Okay, okay, what is it?" Hongjoong nodded, deciding to leave the questions for later.
"Your ship is going to be raided at any second now, you need to make sure all of your crew stay together, especially Seonghwa, don't let them take him away with the rest of the rescues," Wooyoung explained quickly, breathing harshly like he had been running a race. 
"What do you me-" Hongjoong began to ask, a bit confused, but he couldn't finish as he was abruptly pulled out of his dreams.
He woke up to an urgent Yunho quickly getting dressed while he yelled at him to wake up. Hongjoong felt lost and disoriented as he looked around and tried to understand. Yunho explained everything to him in short and quick sentences and he finally shot up as he understood what Wooyoung had been trying to say. He dressed up quickly just like Yunho and exited the quarters to find two bigger ships stationed next to them. 
They had immobilized The Crescent and it was clear this was very much an arrest. Soldiers were going around arresting his crew members and the people they had rescued without stopping to distinguish who was who. He spotted Yeosang and Jongho handcuffed next to each at the forecastle deck, but he was stopped by an official when he tried to make his way to them.
"Are you the Captain of this ship?" The official asked.
"Yes, that would be me," Hongjoong nodded, immediately standing straight.These were soldiers of his empire, he was above them, but at that moment, he was nothing more than a treasure hunter.
"You're under arrest for attacking and damaging another ship, The Sailfish, and we would appreciate your cooperation," the official explained. Hongjoong knew that acting up would only bring more trouble to them, but he at least had to try to protect his crew.
"I understand, and we'll cooperate," Hongjoong nodded, "but first I would like to make you aware that what we did was rescue some people from a slave ship. Nothing more and nothing less."
"I'm certain that's true, but it was still damaging of a private property and physical assault, so we have to take care of things properly," the official smiled, but they certainly weren't in the mood to negotiate for things. They quickly pulled out a pair of handcuffs and handcuffed both Hongjoong and Yunho, who didn't resist. "Now, I would appreciate it if you could help me identify the members of your crew, since you say you're carrying extra people right now."
"Of course," Hongjoong accepted. He did his best to appear calm, but he was very nervous inside. How would they get out of this situation without his secret being brought to light? He only hoped he could protect all of his crew without leaving anyone behind.
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bigskydreaming · 4 years
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Tim Drake apparently threw ‘zero tantrums’ after being replaced as Robin, ‘unlike Dick.’
Sigh.
This is why I hate fanon sometimes. People honestly actually believe this stuff, and have no problem rounding off emotional reactions to their most extreme limit, so anyone who doesn’t know any better just walks away with the interpretation that Dick is just a big ball of childish fury and no emotional control, and Tim is just the coolest of the cool cucumbers.
Dick threw exactly ‘one tantrum’ after being replaced without warning, reason or explanation given, with the mantle HE and he alone established. And it was AT BRUCE, the person actually responsible, NOT Jason, and you wanna know the funny thing? Check out that issue. Check out how BRUCE responds. Dick comes in and is pissed, sure, but BRUCE is the one who loses his shit and breaks something just for the hell of it, cuz like, it’s just so infuriating that he has to have a conversation about feelings I guess. But does anyone talk about that? Does anybody ever examine whether Dick’s oh so infamous temper might come from being raised by a man who is his example of what to be like, and who apparently is capable of losing his shit any time someone asks him to actually emote? Naaaaaah.
And then we have Tim, who after being replaced in a TOTALLY different manner, with Dick standing there giving him compliments instead of criticism, and yeah sorry to break it to people, but Tim absolutely did get pissed too! And he stormed out of the cave while Dick was literally standing there begging him not to go, saying he NEEDED him, and Tim’s just like yeah well whatever dude and fucks off out of Gotham for a year, which yes, was because he was looking for proof Bruce was alive, but the willful refusal to pick up the phone and reassure Dick every time the latter called him to check up on him (because it wasn’t like Dick had just lost his second father too, and was likely terrified of losing his remaining family, especially when he didn’t even know where they were but knew wherever it was, it was likely dangerous)....yeah Tim refuses to ever talk to him that year even to reassure him he’s still okay, purely out of spite, and Dick has to resort to asking Tim’s friends to check up on him for him.....but none of this is Tim throwing a tantrum, unlike Dick??
Ugh.
See this is why I will never be over the myth of Dick’s temper. Fanfics and headcanons and meta all act like he’s so above and beyond the rest of his family and teams in terms of fury and lack of emotional control or maturity, when every single member of his family and most of his teammates exhibit the same (and often GREATER) displays of temper and ‘irrationality’ just as often as he does, if not more....it’s just NOBODY EVER TALKS ABOUT THEIR DISPLAYS OF TEMPER. No, everybody acts like they just don’t exist, didn’t happen, or if they did, they were just fully justified unlike Dick’s, whose are never justified, somehow.
And so Dick winds up with this reputation of being over the top angry at the drop of a hat, even though he’s also the ONE member of the family with a reputation as a people person that everyone likes and finds charming....which uh....doesn’t mesh with a guy that loses his cool at just about anything, especially with how often members of his family and teams and just the general public DO give him shit and habitually and casually insult his name, his costumes, his sex life, his circus background, his heritage, his status in the family and anything else they can think of lololol.
But meanwhile, his poor suffering family has to weather Dick’s many temper tantrums while NEVER exhibiting the same, and definitely never at his expense. It’s not like Dick is the only member of the family who has literally been punched in anger by EVERY SINGLE OTHER MEMBER OF HIS FAMILY EXCEPT CASS.....but nobody ever mentions that, do they? That Bruce, Jason, Tim, Damian....all of them have lost their cool with Dick and punched him to shut him up or make themselves feel better or just express RAWR IM SO MAD AT YOU.....but has Dick ever done the same with Damian or Tim? Just Bruce based on Bruce’s example, and Jason when he was actively shooting at him or others or presenting himself as some kind of active threat.
All of which i will never say is ideal and I wish hadn’t happened and I’m not defending Dick doing those things, I’m simply pointing out the double standard in how all of those things are brought up time and time again as Exhibit A of Dick’s temper and flaws, but how many people even KNOW that Tim has punched Dick, if they haven’t read that issue themselves? How many people hear about that fight between Dick and Donna back in the day, and walk away sure it was all Dick’s fault and he was an asshole for it, and never learn that Donna started it, said equally cruel things to him, refused to leave when he TRIED to de-escalate it and say he wasn’t in the right attitude to be having this particular conversation right now, and oh yeah, in response to what he said to her, SHE punched him through a WALL. And oh yeah Dick was also brainwashed at the time but lol what does that matter, context is for other Batfam members lol.
So yeah. This is why I hate fanon sometimes, because sometimes fanon is kinda a lying asshole about canon and to such an extent that everyone who doesn’t read canon (which is a large part of this particular fandom) writes all their fics and comments and posts based on the interpretation that everything they’ve heard about Dick from equally biased fans of other characters is totally true and accurate and we wind up with this fandom wide perception that Dick and Dick alone has anger management issues and he really just needs to cool it, unlike his family and friends, who are all just rational, collected cool, cool cucumbers even in the most emotional of situations.
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