Tumgik
#suth carnelian
suth-sardian · 2 years
Text
Tumblr media
you have no idea how i held myself back from squeeing for years while drawing these
@ykoriana-imperatrix
8 notes · View notes
Text
SDC Month - December 2022 - Wednesday #2
We are back with another what-if scenario! Before we do start, however, I would just like to add something that I think I failed to make clear last week — much like the theories from June, these scenarios will be solely based on canon information from the books and website both (and anything from online chats with the author, if relevant). They will not take into account any (further) development of/headcanons relating to any characters, events, worldbuilding, etc. (especially the first) from fanon.
(Cut for length (trust me, this one definitely needs it) and some spoilers here and there.)
A Daughter Can Oft More Fates Decide
(This title, is, of course, a reference to the epigraph from the chapter "The Conclave".)
As you might have guessed from the title, my concept for today is: what if Azurea had given birth to a daughter instead of a son? (And, yes, @suth-sardian, I know, I know, we already explored this particular concept through our own discussions, so this week's installment is not exactly exciting new material, but I feel it isn't exactly rehashing pre-existing content either. After all, this scenario is getting introduced to a wider audience via this project, which is always a plus, no?)
Getting back to the core concept at hand: nothing else changes in this scenario. Azurea, unfortunately, still dies in childbirth, the exile deal between Sardian and Ykoriana still happens, and so on. The only difference is that we now have a Carnelia* (and yes, I do imagine Carnelian could perfectly serve as a unisex name, but I like Carnelia, it is sort of a portmanteau of carnelian + the existing name Cornelia, so I'm going to use it for this post from here on) instead of a Carnelian as the child decisions must be made about.
As @suth-sardian pointed out when we initially had this discussion, it is very possible a significant change would be at play here, that being the fact that Sardian would be legally unable to take his baby daughter with him in his exile (that is, if that was even his intention in the first place; having a young daughter and having a young son would be very distinct situations for a Chosen lord to deal with). Little Carnelia might still be an infant who would not be subject to confinement in the forbidden houses for many years, but the fact the exile was (for all anyone knew at the time) meant to be permanent would mean this young lady would eventually find herself reaching the age of menarche in circumstances under which she couldn't be properly confined as the Law-that-must-be-obeyed dictated. So, what would Sardian do regarding his young daughter?
One would assume he would just leave her behind at Coomb Suth, being comforted by the fact that she would still be growing up around her grandmother Urquentha, and so would not be entirely bereft of the presence of Chosen members of her paternal family (and lineage). And yes, given what their society is like, I imagine that even under more normal circumstances, where Sardian was never exiled, he would have never been particularly close to a daughter, but being a distant figure in her life would still be quite different from not being around at all. Plus, we know Sardian is an atypical Chosen lord in many ways; he might never have been a doting father to Carnelia regardless of circumstance, but he would still feel fondness and (perhaps more importantly, given his values and strong sense of honour) paternal responsibility for her. She would likely even be safer among the Suths than her male canon counterpart, given that, unlike him in the same circumstances, she would have posed no threat to Spinel in terms of his plots for usurpation of the Ruling Lordship.
There is, however, Ykoriana's offer to consider still, which would — seeing as she made it prior to Azurea's death — still be in play. I think that Sardian, knowing how close Ykoriana had been to her sister, would at least give the idea some thought and try to figure out if his child would ever be remotely safe around her aunt. While personally, I do think Ykoriana would feel more favourably towards Azurea's daughter than she ever would towards Azurea's son, and I don't think that would be a thought that would never cross Sardian's mind, at this point, he would still be acutely aware that Ykoriana loathes him (and who knows if that hatred might not eventually bleed into her view of his daughter) and that the birth of Carnelia caused Azurea's death, and it is surely not impossible Ykoriana might resent her to some degree for it (as she does regarding Carnelian in canon). In addition (another point @suth-sardian made when we originally had this discussion, as I recall), while a son of his growing up in the Masks would still be living in the world of men for the most part, and could be far more easily protected by Kumatuya if needed, a daughter would mainly be under Ykoriana's sphere of influence. And so, Sardian might just not want to take that risk at all; he'd know that his daughter’s safety would be far more assured if she was left at Coomb Suth.
I will not speculate at great length about Carnelia herself, and what she would grow up to be like in terms of personality, since the circumstances are too different from canon to keep any speculation from getting too fanfiction-like if it goes on too long. But considering she would be growing up with Urquentha as her main adult Chosen influence, I believe it's quite likely she would develop a personality similar to that of her grandmother, and be more of a typical haughty and blood-proud young Chosen woman, lacking the compassion and kind heart that characterises her male counterpart. Children, real or fictional, mainly learn compassion and empathy from the adults in their lives, usually parental figures, and Carnelia would just lack the key circumstances (and individuals) conducive to Carnelian turning out as he did.
What about Sardian himself, and how would he fare in his exile in this alternate universe where he did not have his son with him? We do know Carnelian's presence was incredibly important to how his life in the Hold played out, from what he says in the chapter "The Blood-Ring":
When we came here, this place was a perfect mirror to my mood. That first winter was terrible. Many died. When they did not know I heard them, our people whispered that I had brought them across the black water to the Isle of the Dead. I almost shared their belief. As bleak and colourless as the Underworld is said to be, this island was worse. If you had not been there, swaddled in Ebeny's arms, I might have let it remain always so. For your sake, I let the household improve the Hold.
Now, it is impossible to guess with complete certainty if what-if!Sardian's mindset would have ever improved, or if we would find the Hold and the people living there shadows of their canon selves by 15 Kumatuya (that if they were even still alive). But I do believe it is not a total impossibility this Sardian could have eventually reached a point where his mental state did improve somewhat, even if it took much longer and it never reached the same levels of contentment it did in canon. Sardian is nothing if not a very resilient man, and in the absence of Carnelian, it is possible he might have developed a deeper bond with (some of) the members of his household earlier (it's not like his atypical attitude towards his slaves originated during the exile years even in canon, after all, we do know he genuinely loved Fey and considered her his favourite sister, which probably went back to when were both children, or close enough). On that note, one could wonder if the composition of the household Sardian takes along would be changed by Carnelia's existence and the fact she would likely be staying at Osrakum. I imagine Sardian choosing to take Crail, Brin and Grane along would almost certainly be unchanged — he seemed to have had significant trust in them and valued their competence for a long time, and it is not like the roles they would be playing would be affected by Carnelia's presence or absence. The same would, I'm sure, be true of others like Naith, Krib, Poal, Rale, Mari, and so on. It is when it comes to Ebeny and Keal in particular that I believe we could see a change — if Sardian is not taking his newborn child along, he does not really need any specific household woman to be serving as a wet nurse, be that Ebeny or any other, now does he? In my view, whether Ebeny and Keal stayed or left would depend more on Sardian's feelings regarding Ebeny then, and his reasons to have Keal (only a child at the time, remember) be part of the household in exile. If Sardian already had some fondness for Ebeny at the time (and didn't just see her as a random concubine), and that wasn't more of a development occuring during the exile years (which isn't made completely clear in the canonical material), then yes, I do think he would still want her to go. As for Keal, it would come down to whether Sardian was taking him along more for his own sake (Keal maybe being a marumaga son he happened to have some fondness for even then, which we also have no idea was the case or not) or for Ebeny's, so that she wouldn't have to suffer being separated from her child.
So, the years pass, and assuming everything still goes as it did in canon, and Kumatuya lies dying by the 15th year of his reign, a trio of unexpected visitors arrive. I think that, barring Sardian dying earlier for whatever reason (but let’s assume he does not), this is still going to happen regardless of Carnelia(n)'s sex or location — as I mentioned in the last what-if post, I feel like bringing Sardian back would always seem like a good move to Aurum, and, of course, Kumatuya would relish the chance to see him one more time no matter the universe. In fact, I think that this scenario might give Aurum added investment regarding convincing Sardian to return, and in the absence of Carnelian’s clear parentage as his main argument, he would play up the fact that Sardian had not seen his daughter in 15 years, wouldn't he like to have that chance, might even work in (feigned) affection for his own daughters as a comparison, etc. (And while I don't want to make this point into too long of a tangent, since Aurum just had a what-if post focused on him last Wednesday, Azurea's child being a daughter is incredibly fortunate for him in this scenario — remember, he is still actively looking for a third wife... Carnelia would be young (all the better in terms of a greater chance to eventually produce a son), particularly pure-blooded as ladies of the Great go, a niece of the current God Emperor and a cousin to the future one... he would likely find no better potential match short of Ykoriana herself.) And yes, I do think Sardian would return, even in the absence of Carnelian and thus the danger posed by Aurum deducing his parentage. What-if!Sardian would likely be less attached to the Hold than canon Sardian, as discussed above, he would still absolutely want to have a last chance to see Kumatuya, and I do think he would be curious about his daughter, what she would be like, how had she been doing for all these past years. So, once again, the "Baran Bunch" sets out on the way to Osrakum, only this time as a group of four instead of five.
(*While I don’t want to go too deep into the rabbit hole of what would Sardian name a potential daughter, I feel that in more realistic terms, Urothre would be a fairly plausible possibility, since it would probably mean something along the lines of “little carnelian” (from “ur”, “lesser, little” and “óthrá”, “carnelian”) and the original Urothre would be an ancestress of this child, and even one that was actually from the Great and not the House of the Masks itself. Depending on Chosen society’s view on necronyms, especially those concerning the recently deceased, it is also possible Sardian might at least consider naming his daughter after her late mother. If he did so, he might have the intention of endearing Ykoriana to the child via honouring Azurea... but then again, it is possible that Ykoriana would just see it as an insult to her sister’s memory and it would just make matters worse. Seriously, this could probably be its own post.)
And this is where I'll put a stop to my speculation within this particular scenario. Yes, there is so much more that could be speculated about, especially when it comes to Sardian and Carnelia's thoughts and actions after the former's return to Osrakum, and how the events from then onwards would be changed from canon... but this post is far too long already, and fellow fans, friends and companions, bear with me, I don't want to fall into the aforementioned rabbit hole, or any other, and have this reach novel length. Who knows, maybe a continuation of this particular what-if scenario can even be part of a future SDC month?
23 notes · View notes
suth-sardian · 2 years
Text
no cause Carnelian is such a good little papa’s boy, if Sardian told me to close my eyes because he was going to unmask the God-Emperor, i would CARVE every detail of his face into my retinas
2 notes · View notes
suth-sardian · 2 years
Text
Happy Birthday, Carnelian! 33/4
Tumblr media
tbh, my feelings towards Carnelian vacillate between book-throwing headache because he’s clown and bone-crushing affection because he’s babey. so i think i have a normal relationship with him
2 notes · View notes
suth-sardian · 2 years
Text
Tumblr media
no because i’m obsessed the fact that Carnelian is acknowledged as being BOTH Sardian and Kumatuya’s son. the way he’s listed with lines to both and has his blood from both! the way he has Sardian blood taint on his back and Kumatuya’s appearance! the way he’s literally both of his fathers in one body!!!!!!!!!
1 note · View note
ykoriana-imperatrix · 4 months
Text
SDC Month - December 2023 - Wednesday #1 - Question #2
Did I find a way to make this project lazier? Perhaps, perhaps not.
The second question for today (and this month): Who is the first character other than Carnelian to be named in the series? A: Naith B: Tain C: Sardian D: Krib
By the way, "Suth" would count for option C for the purposes of this question.
As with the earlier one, you will learn the answer on the 13th.
5 notes · View notes
Text
SDC Month - December 2022 - Monday #3
Will today be the day I express a truly controversial opinion? (Probably not. But it is the day I express a not-of-essay-length one, which is at least good for variety.)
The by now familiar disclaimer: please avoid this post if you think there is the slightest chance it might legitimately offend/anger/otherwise upset you. If that's the case, I'm sure there is other, better SDC content for you out there, perhaps even in this very blog.
(Cut for content and some spoilers, even if they’re not that explicitly elaborated upon.)
My unpopular opinion for today, which curiously, happens to be more of a wish-type opinion than a complaint/vent-type one: I would actually be more interested in getting to see characters from new Houses in the prequel than from those we are already familiar with.
Yes, I am aware of the fact that Masks characters being involved is a given, since the for-now-still-hypothetical prequel focuses on the intra-Masks Civil War. Since the Masks being in focus is an actual fact that cannot be avoided, I did mostly mean Houses of the Great when referring to those we had pre-existing familiarity with. (The Lesser Chosen barely feature in the main SDC, so of course I'd be delighted at getting to see more of them — but in all honesty, literally any of the 320 Lesser Chosen Houses that could make an appearance in the prequel (if that happens) would effectively be "new", since we never learn the name of a single one in the main series, not even those of the Legates who briefly appear as minor characters.)
And yes, I can hear @suth-sardian's outraged cry of “you mean you don't want to see more of House Suth?!” in my mind already. It's not that — I actually would enjoy seeing more of them in other potential works set in the SDC universe regardless of era... but frankly, considering we only have characters with at least minimal levels of development from 4 (5 if you count Cumulus, but I barely do myself; the Ruling Lord Cumulus from canon appears in all of one scene and Carnelian never pays much attention to him even then) Houses of the Great, I would just like to see (some of) the others be given their chance in the limelight, you know? There are over 70 Houses (well, there might have been fewer or more during the Civil War era, but surely a few tens even back then) we know basically nothing about beyond the fact they exist, and judging by SDC, we might not see characters from that many (understandable to a degree; too many Houses and characters can create excessive confusion and draw away from the plot/themes) in this prequel. So yes, if we’re most likely going to see characters from a limited number of Houses, I would much rather have those not be part of the same 4 we already know.
Additionally, while I do still genuinely think all the Houses of the Great we see in main SDC are interesting and that even the less-developed characters (could) have potential intriguing characteristics and backstories, I also believe bringing back too many already well-known characters/families is often a crutch for prequels (and works set within any specific universe, really) in general. This prequel, if it ever materialises, will already be a story set in a completely different era, with a society undoubtedly very distinct from the post-Balance one we see in canon (and we do already have a character familiar to us in Legions, at the very least — can’t that one link between past and present/future be enough?); why not have this brand-new, uncharted territory aspect extend to the Chosen Houses and characters featuring in it?
16 notes · View notes
Text
SDC Month - December 2022 - Sunday #3
I think you can all guess who is featuring this time...
House Aurum
Here's our now-traditional helpful numbered version of the canon tree. Like @suth-sardian​ once said, it does look quite simplistic compared to the Masks, Imago and Suth ones, doesn't it? It's just that single straightforward line of descent until we get to Aurum's marriages and children.
Tumblr media
As you know by now, those God Emperors to the side are ignored for this project's numbering. Unusually, I did include Aurum himself, despite not doing so for Jaspar, Sardian, Carnelian, et al, for reasons which will be explained below.
The wife of this first Ruling Lord is named Chromia (from the element chromium; there’s a bit of a theme there and with other Aurums, since the House is named after the Latin for gold, another transition metal) and she is a fellow Aurum, a second lineage lady, more precisely. (According to the author, those marriages tend to be avoided for the most part, but @suth-sardian​ and I just decided this would be one of those more unusual cases where it did happen due to specific circumstances.) We have her as being born in -190/43 Nuhqanya and dying in -111/41 Qusaqanya.
The Ruling Lord himself is Ferrum (from the Latin name for iron). Since his birth year, death year, date of accession and blood-taint are all identical to those of the Imago lord we named Elbanith in fanon, that is what precipitated the creation of Imago Istra (remember when I said she'd become relevant?). @suth-sardian​ and I decided the years would be coincidental (unlikely it might be, but statistically speaking, there would always be a possibility), but that the identical blood-taints would be a result of Ferrum and Elbanith being double first cousins (like Urquentha and Linarie in the Suth tree). Istra would have thus been Ferrum's mother, and Ferrum's aunt Sideria Elbanith's mother.
The wife of the son of Ferrum and Chromia would be named Sylvana (from sylvanite), from the fanon House Ruhadral. She was born in -128/24 Qusaqanya and died in -64/33 Qusata.
Said son would originally be named Galen (from galena, Galena itself being the name of an historical Aurum lady of note in fanon) but he took the name Iridium (from the element of that name) (which in fanon, would be that of another notable Aurum ancestor) upon his accession to the Ruling Lordship.
The son of Galen/Iridium and Sylvana married Maris (a bit unsure, but I believe her name derives from maricite), from the fanon House Lumi. She was born in -101/51 Qusaqanya and died in -22/11 Nuhuron.
Galen/Iridium and Sylvana's son was Zircon (from the mineral of that name; it seemed only appropriate, since its name derives from a word meaning “gold-hued”).
Zircon and Maris' own son wed Ametra (from ametrine) from the fanon House Naranith. She was born in -89/8 Qusata and died in -6/27 Nuhuron.
Ametra's husband was Pyrite (named after the mineral of the same name; and yes, that is a bit of a jab at the name of the House itself, since pyrite is often referred to as "fool's gold"). Now, he was a character who went through a significant change in terms of dates, because since (as mentioned in an earlier post from this month) the canon Aurum was actually supposed to be 20 years older than in this tree, the dates from the tree weren't compatible with that. Our solution to this, while trying to make as few changes as possible to the dates from the tree, was to have both Zircon and Pyrite become fathers at young ages, and only change Pyrite's birth year, which in fanon is -83/14 Qusata instead of -68/29 Qusata.
Aurum's first wife was given the name Agathea (from agate) and is from the fanon House Akana. She was born in -49/48 Qusata, which yes, would mean she would be yet another character around by canon era (which could actually be canonically the case, I mean, we know next to nothing about her, it's not impossible). (@suth-sardian​ and I don't see her as still living in Coomb Aurum in fanon, though; her match with Aurum was set to a specific period of time, and so she would have long since returned to her birth House.)
Yes, Suth Ruby was already discussed in the House Suth post last week, but given that pesky question mark in place of a death date, I thought I would number her again here, and add that we do see her as being very much alive by the time the events of the story start in fanon.
Not much should have to be said about the man himself, but since he does canonically lack one, @suth-sardian​ and I decided his given name in fanon would be Akriuros (his original name in an earlier version of the story’s development; also that of another renowned ancestor in fanon). And, as mentioned above, his actual birth year, in canon and fanon both, would be -66/31 Qusata.
Aurum (or Akriuros, whichever you prefer) and Agathea's son was named Zircon, after his great-grandfather (whom he actually got to meet, how interesting is that). I did feel we could do with some more namesakes; I think it would hardly be an unheard of practice in such a heavily patriarchal society, even if we don't really see any in canon (but then again, we know few given names of Chosen characters outside the House of the Masks).
Aurum and Ruby's first daughter was named Xineya, which was Urquentha's original name, and still remains as a leftover from that earlier developmental version in the current Suth tree. (And yes, that would mean she is named after her grandmother in a way, which is sweet.)
Their second daughter is Sapphire (after, of course, the gemstone of that name, which is, like ruby, a variety of corundum).
The third daughter is Jacintha (from jacinth, a variety of zircon). (So she would be named after her late half-brother and great-grandfather in a sense.)
Extra notes: As you might or might not have noticed, @suth-sardian​ and I did try to include a few longer-lived people (well, mostly Istra, Chromia, Maris and Ametra, since the elder Zircon's longer lifespan was already canon) among Aurum's fanon ancestors, to have that little hint there that his own longevity might have a genetic component to it.
As always, hopefully you enjoyed this post. Tune in next time for the fourth and last installment in this series!
4 notes · View notes
ykoriana-imperatrix · 2 years
Text
SDC Month - June 2022 - Saturday #3
It's Theory Saturday again!
(Cut for length and any potential spoilers.)
The Oldest, and Yet the Last
(Sadly, this title is not entirely accurate — it just so happened I favoured an A Song of Ice and Fire reference over accuracy. What can I say? I was just too fond of the idea not to use it.)
Today's theory is also introduced through a passage from quite early in the series. Namely, a remark Sardian makes during the same conversation in which he explains Aurum's succession situation to Carnelian:
"Are the children of the Chosen so frail?" "A curse of our race is that so few come of age. Though mortal blood waters down the ichor of the Gods, our veins cannot contain its fire, and it softens our bones."
While we have no concrete information on Chosen child mortality rates, something in Sardian's words eventually started striking me as more oddly personal than an actual, accurate representation of said rates. True, deriving a conclusion like this from the four simple words "So few come of age" is more than a little speculative, but a theory is not a scientific article, after all. I thought that this instinctive feeling could make for a good potential theory, especially since, despite being told about this on the second chapter of the series, we do not learn about (m)any specific cases (that is not to say that no Chosen children die during the books, but those are hardly the more "natural" deaths that would be associated with child mortality).
So yes, I do believe Sardian is speaking from personal experience here. While as far as we know, he had no prior marriages before the one to Azurea, and so it seems unlikely he would have had other Chosen children at all, let alone any who died young, he would not necessarily be referring to his children here.
Taking a look at the Suth family tree, we can notice some potentially interesting facts. Sardian was born when his mother Urquentha was quite young (15 years old), and his sister was born 2 years later. Even though Urquentha is still living at Coomb Suth by the time of the series, for some reason, she does not appear to have had any more children by her husband following the birth of their daughter. And unlike with matches restricted to a fixed period of time or specifying the birth of a set number of children, the possibility would definitely have been there (especially since Urquentha would only be 34 at the time of her husband's death). Yet it is entirely possible the two did have more children, and those additional siblings did succumb to the all-too-present childhood mortality Sardian mentions. (I think it makes perfect sense for them not to be pictured in the Suth tree if this is the case, since even if they did exist, they are not relevant to the main story. After all, for instance, Sardian and Carnelian certainly must have marumaga half-siblings other than the ones we do know about, and they're never mentioned, relevant or pictured in the tree either.)
The fact that Urquentha gave birth to Sardian at an early age is also an important factor here, because it would mean Sardian would likely be the eldest Suth sibling overall, even accounting for these hypothetical additional ones. Meaning he would be in a position where he would probably remember the deaths of most of these brothers and sisters fairly clearly — lending an even more personal element to his words to Carnelian in The Masters.
And assuming "so few" is not just an exaggeration of sorts resulting of the impact this would have undoubtedly had on him, it seems probable Sardian's parents were indeed particularly unfortunate when it came to their children, with more of them dying young than living long enough to reach their majority. (While I did not consider a concrete number of deceased siblings when coming up with this theory, something like four or five dying in infancy/childhood does not seem unlikely — two survivors out of six/seven children total could, I think, realistically be referred to as a scenario where "so few" lived enough to come of age.)
In conclusion: a depressing situation to consider, to be sure, but still something that, at least to me, does not seem at all implausible for the setting. Plus, I feel like it is also interesting in terms of how it could shape interpretations of Sardian and Urquentha's worldview and motivations — just because child mortality is common and part of life for the Chosen characters, it doesn't mean it can't or won't be deeply impactful to the families of said children.
14 notes · View notes
ykoriana-imperatrix · 4 months
Text
SDC Month - December 2023 - Thursday #2
Still with us?
(Cut for spoilers.)
You Are Welcome at Our Court
Alright, so you might look at this premise and consider it a fact rather than a theory, but, well, you're in your right to do so. Speculation such as this is subjective by nature, and I feel there's just enough ambiguity here for this concept to be able to stand on its own as a theory. Presenting: Molochite never learned about Carnelian's true parentage.
Let's start by establishing a timeline here: I do believe that, even in a hypothetical scenario where he did learn of Carnelian's parentage, Molochite would never have done so before Aurum told Ykoriana about it. He himself would have no reason to suspect it (having never seen his own father's face, and likely being very familiar with strong resemblances among his kin), and it's not like someone in his faction like Jaspar or Vennel (who, unlike Aurum, were never in a position to know what Kumatuya had looked like) would have any suspicions to share with him either.
Granted, he does have this to say in The Chosen (chapter "Syblings"):
'Imago, you spoke truth; he does have the beauty of the Masks. However much it is tainted, our blood breeds true.' (…) 'Son of Azurea, you are welcome at our court.'
But in this case, I feel he's only emphasising Carnelian's strong (as far as most people know) resemblance to his mother and his Masks blood, while being dismissive of his Suth side, not hinting at some suspicion related to Sardian not being Carnelian's biological father.
So I do think that he could only plausibly have learned of it after Osidian and Carnelian were abducted and Aurum decided to throw himself at the mercy of Ykoriana and that of Molochite himself. Now, it's certainly possible Aurum also told him—and not just Ykoriana— Sardian's carefully kept secret in his desperation, but I feel Aurum would have found no use in it? Not only would Ykoriana be the power behind the throne in the Masks at this point, but learning the secret would affect her (hopefully enough not to exile him) far more deeply and personally than it would Molochite. The latter's relationship with his father is a complete unknown (though Kumatuya clearly seemed to prefer Osidian to some degree), he would have no personal history (pre-election, that is) with Sardian and had never known his aunt Azurea. And with Osidian and Carnelian both presumably dead, what value would the secret have to him? No, I really am inclined to believe that when characters mention Aurum told Ykoriana about Carnelian's parentage, he did just tell only her about it.
And even after more factors were at play (Osidian and Carnelian were found to be alive, Molochite started breaking free of Ykoriana's control, Aurum allied with the Wise, etc.), I still think Molochite would have been none the wiser about this particular matter. With so much now going on, who (of the very few who knew) would even find any advantage in telling him about it at this point in time?
Plus, there is the way he addresses Carnelian when he has him captive, which to me, feels like definitive proof he did not, in fact, know. From "The Iron House", The Mirror Breaks:
'How does he draw love to him? (…) 'Always he has vexed me, encompassed me, thwarted me. But now I will destroy him. How could this not be? Have I not crushed them all? Even her.' (…) '(…) We shall regain the absolute power Our ascendant lost to the Wise and to you, the Great—centuries ago!' (…) 'You need not fear that you will miss the battle, cousin: We shall have you hoisted to the roof of this chariot so that you can watch your lover die.'
It is clear Molochite intends to eventually have Carnelian killed, and he freely rants about Osidian and Ykoriana to him. Would he really have any reason to conceal the truth (if he knew it) at this point, especially in his unhinged state (and particularly considering the readers are already aware of it by then)? I don't think so, yet he still calls Carnelian "cousin" (and refers to him as a lord of the Great), just as he did when he first met him. So no, while I do think it would definitely have been interesting had Molochite known about Carnelian's biological parentage, I do genuinely believe that is a topic that would have to be relegated to a what-if scenario.
And with this, we're halfway done with our theories for this month. Did you agree with my points? Or do you disagree and think Molochite actually knew? Whichever the case, I'd love for you to share your thoughts in the comments.
0 notes
Text
SDC Month - December 2022 - Monday #4
Last chance for a truly unpopular opinion in 2022?
One last time, the disclaimer everyone must be tired of reading by now: if you think there is even the smallest chance this post might upset you in any way, if not outright infuriate/offend you, please do what is best for yourself and avoid reading it. Have a nice day, and a nice remainder of 2022.
(Cut for content and some spoilers from The Chosen through Dragon Fire.)
Now, for our last maybe-genuinely-controversial-maybe-not statement of this year: Flama's feelings for Osidian were fully platonic.
And no, before I get accused of that, I am not saying this (just) based on her young age at the time of her death. Yes, she was only 9 (~10 in our years, though, in my opinion, there's hardly a huge difference in emotional maturity between a 9-year-old and a 10-year-old, so perhaps the difference is a moot point) when she died, but I am aware that is possible for someone that young to have (if only budding) romantic feelings for someone else. (Though it is also entirely plausible a child that age would have never experienced those, of course.)
In any case, this goes beyond the age aspect to me — I actually used to believe Flama feeling romantically towards Osidian was indeed the case, but over time, I started examining that belief more, and realised we have nothing resembling actual, solid evidence for it. Yes, we know it is definitely not uncommon for members of the House of the Masks to develop incestuous feelings for their kinsmen/kinswomen, but really, even in a House already predisposed towards incest, is every single Masks lord/lady going to potentially feel attraction towards every single one of their relatives? No, I don't think that is plausible in the slightest; attraction just does not work that way, in fiction or reality.
That said, there might be the tendency to consider that since Ykoriana canonically had romantic feelings for Kumatuya, perhaps their children's situation just parallels theirs, with Flama feeling unrequited romantic love for Osidian. (And just a side note: Osidian's feelings for Flama are not the ones under discussion here — I definitely think it extremely unlikely for his affection to have been anything but platonic, especially considering the 3-year age difference and resulting gap in emotional maturity and development. I have no doubt Osidian cared deeply about Flama as his little sister, just not in what you might call the usual Masks way, and I consider their bond as being made no less meaningful by that. Without going into too much of a tangent, it is a huge pet peeve of mine when platonic feelings are considered completely worthless compared to romantic ones — one can be appreciated without diminishing the other, I think, and all sorts of meaningful connections between humans, real or fictional, can exist.) In any case, yes, the reader might be tempted to compare Flama to Ykoriana in this regard, but here's the thing — no one in-universe ever makes the comparison. Ykoriana's POV, "Mothering Mask", is the chapter which provides the most information about Flama, and yet she does not compare her and Osidian to herself and Kumatuya once. Don’t you think she would have, if only in passing, had their situations actually been the same? Instead, the only comparison we do get is that of Carnelian and Osidian to Sardian and Kumatuya, and I feel like the omission is telling:
Before the election, Imago had told her that Osidian Nepheron had descended to the Forbidden Garden of the Yden with Suth's son, Carnelian. The parallels between their relationship and those of their fathers had disturbed her (...)
And one could argue that perhaps Ykoriana finds that particular parallel too painful to make, because she does not wish to bring back traumatic/sorrowful memories by considering her past feelings for Kumatuya... but she mentions them earlier in the exact same chapter, and, as you’ll recall, had no apparent issue with bringing them up during The Chosen (”Ykoriana” chapter) or The Third God ("In the Underworld" chapter) either:
Only a girl when her father died, Kumatuya was the brother she loved.
'Thwarted love is the charioteer of vengeful deeds.'
‘I demanded this proof of love from your father, Nepheron. Though I had reason to hate all men, him I loved. (...)'
Sure, in “Mothering Mask”, she also recalls her past plans of potentially poisoning Flama's love for her brother:
Given enough time, Ykoriana would have been able to gently poison Flama's love for Nepheron.
But, in my opinion at least, you could read that very quote and consider that scenario while believing Flama's feelings platonic, and nothing would really change. Flama having a strong sibling bond (in the usual, platonic sense of the term) with Osidian is just as much a problem to Ykoriana, because it still means she intends to vote for him and not Molochite. (And you know, it is not impossible Ykoriana thought Flama's feelings for her brother could eventually become romantic, — as we can assume her own had — even if they were not so at the time, which could have made her all the more determined to create a rift between her children.)
The only other character who goes into any detail about Flama and Osidian's relationship is Osidian himself, and this is what he has to say in The Chosen ("Just One More Day" chapter):
Osidian nodded slowly. 'She murdered my sister, who would have been my wife.' 'That is rumoured—' 'That is a fact!' said Osidian, causing Carnelian to flinch. 'Flama promised to vote for me.' Carnelian caressed Osidian's jaw. 'I'm sorry.' 'We loved one another since we were children. When I am the Gods...'
Yes, Flama would have married Osidian were she still alive, but that means little, if anything, regarding their actual feelings; it is just the custom in the Masks, so I think we can hardly conclude anything from that particular tidbit of information. Do note Osidian does mention they had loved each other since they were children, which means their closeness was almost certainly not a recent development by the time Flama died. They were likely very young children when they first started bonding with one another, so that could be argued to make the possibility of romantic feelings even more unlikely, since while the idea of a 9-year-old having romantic feelings for a 12-year-old (just sticking with SDC years here; as we’ve discussed, the difference is small at these young ages) still has some plausibility, would you consider the same to be true back when they were, let's say, 3 and 6 respectively? And yes, I will concede that Flama's feelings could have started out as platonic and shifted into romantic ones later in life, but again, there's no real evidence of that to be found. Just like the passage regarding Ykoriana's intentions above, I think that "we loved one another" can still be read with the fully platonic interpretation in mind and nothing would change. Flama's death being a traumatic experience to Osidian and one that turned him even further against Ykoriana is consistent in terms of cause and consequences regardless of the nature of Flama's feelings.
And there you have it — the conclusion of the unpopular opinions project (for this specific SDC month, at least). Does this contradict your own views, or do you actually agree with me? Also, in relation to the project in general, would you enjoy seeing it make a return in 2023 (provided I have enough good ideas for it, that is), or would it be better to shelve it for a time?
1 note · View note
Text
SDC Month - December 2022 - Friday #3
“I come as a pair but I'm not socks—”
V. Left-Keru & Right-Keru
Men are all such fools, their half-sister Dajaqea has told them more than once, her tone always a little too contemptuous for their taste. They see you as little girls still, that is all; you need to prove yourselves women, not children. Right-Keru is uncertain, her fears of rejection consuming her even when picturing a short visit to gauge their uncles' feelings, perfectly acceptable even by those who shackle them. “You are the greater fool still,” her sister chides her, however, “we already cannot escape what we are, would you have us live with regrets alongside all that?”
Notes
These sybling sisters are more fanon characters (again, blame the good old randomiser, not me), daughters of Kumatuya born in -15/18 Nuhuron (so 14 years Carnelian's seniors). The Dajaqea they mention is another (fanon) non-main line, blood-rank one daughter of Kumatuya, who would only be 6 days older than them, and thus would have ended up being one of the (non-sybling) relatives they were closest to growing up. (Though as hinted by that first sentence, their dynamic wouldn’t be devoid of the tension related to the usual prejudice all syblings would face.) The subject that concerns the Kerus so is their unrequited feelings for their uncles the Hanuses (a headcanon originally thought of by @suth-sardian not long after we came up with these characters, if I remember correctly). We can imagine (considering the canon case of Ykoriana and Kumatuya) that it is probably not uncommon for Masks ladies to develop romantic/sexual feelings towards male relations, even if they cannot really act on them due to the restrictions of the forbidden houses. Given their own close bond with their sisters the Ikarus, I see the Hanuses (18 years older than the Kerus, by the way, since their fanon birth year would be -33/64 Qusata) having a soft spot for quite a few of their younger sybling relatives, trying to be there for these juniors as the Ikarus had for him. It just so happened that as they got older, the Kerus’ love for their uncles shifted from familial to romantic, while theirs remained solely the former (and there would also be the added issue of the girls' eventual confinement creating distance between them, of course). As Dajaqea implies, the Hanuses are also completely ignorant of how their nieces now feel about them, a situation which both sisters (Right-Keru, as seen, somewhat hesitantly/fearfully) wish to change. Would they be even remotely successful, however? I very much doubt it — @suth-sardian and I tend to see the Hanuses as having their own feelings of unrequited love to struggle with (though that's more of a story for another day), and unfortunately for the Kerus’ hopes and dreams, I think their uncles would always see them as their dear nieces and no more (likely even if the aforementioned unrequited love of theirs had not been at play). So, much like their aunt Ykoriana, the Kerus would be among the characters whose desired love life, to quote the Intersection’s Pretty Boy/Intersection Bishounen (of all fictional characters to reference, I know), would not bear fruit.
0 notes
ykoriana-imperatrix · 2 years
Text
Chosen Parent-Child Interactions in SDC
Following a discussion with @suth-sardian, I was curious to see how many actual direct interactions between Chosen parents and children we have in the series, especially compared to a maximum of potential interactions that could have occurred (the parent and child in question both being alive at least at some point during the series, if not its entirety).
(Cut for length and some spoilers.)
If I'm not overlooking anyone, the latter total should add up to 22* pairs that could potentially have interacted on-page (even if the actual likelihood of that happening was small for various reasons):
Aurum and each of his three daughters (1-3)
Aurum's wife/Sardian's sister and each of the aforementioned daughters (4-6)**
Jaspar and his father (7)
Jaspar's father and brother (8)
Urquentha and Sardian (9)
Urquentha and her daughter (10)**
Sardian and Carnelian (11)
Spinel and Opalid (12)
Opalid and his son (13)
Nurpayahras and Kumatuya (14)
Nayakarade and Ykoriana (15)
Kumatuya and Molochite (16)
Kumatuya and Osidian (17)
Ykoriana and Molochite (18)
Ykoriana and Osidian (19)
Ykoriana and Ykorenthe (20)
Osidian and his sybling sons (21) (I'm only counting this as one instance, because while there are two sons, due to them being syblings, it's not like Osidian could have interacted with them separately)
Molochite and Ykorenthe (22)
(*Not counting Kumatuya and Carnelian here because I wanted to focus on potential cases where the characters know themselves to be/see each other as parent and child. Carnelian only finds out about Kumatuya being his biological father after his death, and he considers Sardian to be his actual father in any case.)
(**Yes, Sardian’s sister being alive at any point in the series is debatable, but I’m just assuming she is for the purposes of this list.)
It is a bit sad, due to how interesting they might have been (even if, again, most of these not being shown is understandable in many cases) to consider that we only get on-page interactions between 5 of these pairs (#11, #12, #18, #19 and #20), so not even a quarter of the possible total.
(Though it is particularly fun to see that Ykoriana, despite only having half a dozen scenes, actually gets to interact on-page with all of her children who are around during the series. She gives us 60% of the total distinct Chosen parent-child interactions!)
0 notes
suth-sardian · 3 years
Text
Sardian: awww, Kumatuya, look at my son Carnelian, isn’t he the most adorable thing ever
Kumatuya:
Tumblr media
2 notes · View notes
suth-sardian · 3 years
Text
Tumblr media Tumblr media Tumblr media
Carnelian wishes Osidian could be normal for just one day. His architecture interest could not teach him about glass houses
@ykoriana-imperatrix
4 notes · View notes
suth-sardian · 3 years
Text
Tumblr media
3 sides of the same weird messed up coin i guess
@ykoriana-imperatrix
4 notes · View notes