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zyzix · 11 months

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There's this aspect of Joshua Kiryu's character arc that I'm sort of flabbergasted to realize might be basically un-analyzed these past 15 or so years. I still kind of expect someone will pop up and point to something they've already written, but i'll talk about it anyway. This might also create some analysis ideas for NEO?? Ideally, anyway.

Essentially, I think it's really likely that Joshua misunderstood way more about his situation with Hanekoma, Minamimoto, and Neku than people tend to think. Not only that, but the idea that he had these misunderstandings kind of colors his relationship with Hanekoma. It also adds to him and Neku being foils. Where do I even begin.

I guess just with this scene that always made me go "hm, that's weird." Joshua: Think he's got a thing for you, Neku? Neku: What!? How the hell do you figure that? Joshua: Oh, please! The way he follows you around? Neku: That's just because I'm a Player. Joshua: I don't see him chasing after the other Players. Neku: (He's right… So why me?) Joshua: …Or is it my fault? Neku: (What? That's right… He might be tied in with the Reapers.)

So, what's so weird about this? Am I actually proposing that Joshua really thought Minamimoto was following Neku when he asked this? YES. I AM. That might sound nonsensical, and that's because it kind of is! But there's a reason for that.

When you know what happened in the Udagawa back alley a week and some change prior to that scene, it's reasonable to ask "why would Joshua think a Reaper was after some random RG guy?" Minamimoto came at him with a gun! But then why did Joshua even ask Neku if Minamimoto was following him? If he's trying to trick Neku into thinking this, he wouldn't immediately propose the truth afterwards. Maybe he's trying to make Neku distrust him as he does earlier (Neku scanning him, general sketch behavior perhaps) but not only is that redundant, it still doesn't answer why he asked about Neku in the first place.

So what happens if we take Joshua at face value here? Are we to assume Joshua thought he was the target at Udagawa, but Neku is the target now? I have no idea what the thought process would be behind that. Are we to assume that Joshua thought Neku was the target the whole time?? That still seems illogical, but maybe instead of asking why Neku would be the target, we should shift our focus and ask "why would Joshua think he isn't the target?"

I find that a lot easier to answer because we have Hanekoma. And Joshua thought he did too, basically.

We know from Secret Report 9 that the only person who should know Joshua's RG identity here is Mr. H.

SR 9: Minamimoto knows the Composer's RG identity (secret even to the Conductor), and has chased him to the Realground. The Fallen Angel may also have supplied him with this information.

Even in this report, it's proposed (by Hanekoma's misdirection) that someone else, some other Angel perhaps, could know Joshua's identity. We know that there isn't another Angel who told Minamimoto this information though. It was just Hanekoma. The only person in the story for Joshua to suspect is Mr. H.

Yet he doesn't. Or, I don't believe he does anyway. Let's take a look at our options.

Why does Joshua not seem to be wondering who sold him out? We have two branching options to start with: "He already knows who did it" and "he doesn't realize he's been sold out."

Lots of people assume Joshua already knows Hanekoma revealed his identity to Minamimoto. Because like… how else would he have known? Literally what else is Joshua supposed to think after being shot at? I mean, I've been explaining what else Joshua could have thought, but the point is it's a fair assumption. The only issue is that Joshua doesn't behave like he knows Mr. H betrayed him until Week 2 Day 5.

That is a long delay between then and when Joshua should have first known this information (before the story even starts.) I don't know when definitively Joshua put it together, but W2D5 is the first time we can say we KNOW he knows. And it really might have been that moment, because what happens right afterwards?

Well, Neku and him get attacked by Beat and Joshua learns about Kitaniji's "special op." But what happens right after THAT?

Joshua tells Neku that Hanekoma is CAT. An eye for an eye, I guess.

Part of the idea that Joshua did know Mr. H betrayed him from the start is that maybe Joshua was just putting up with that fact. That maybe Hanekoma was too useful, and couldn't do more harm anyway. Or that Joshua really didn't have any other options. I can understand why people think that, but I don't think we can bet on any of those. There's no reason for Joshua to think Hanekoma couldn't do way more harm than just tattling on him, especially as the week goes on and Taboo Noise crop up. Also, while it's impossible to prove one way or the other, there's no reason to think Joshua couldn't have built his game plan sans Hanekoma from the start if he thought he'd betrayed him. All of this assuming that Joshua gives a shit about what Mr. H did, admittedly.

On the other hand, if we posit that Joshua found out later about Mr. H, and that he'd give a shit about that, there should be some kind of change in his behavior towards him. This seems a little hard to to prove because that scene on W2D5 is the last time we see them interact (or even see Mr. H at all) until the ending of the game. That said, it's probably very telling that in TWEWY Mr. H is Joshua's sole confidant, and in NEO Mr. H has no idea what's going on with Joshua at all. I find that very interesting, but we're gonna put a pin in that for later.

Aaaaaaaaaall of that's to say that I don't think it's very likely that Joshua knew Hanekoma told Minamimoto his identity from the start. He shares information with Mr. H too easily for me to think that's the case. What's our next option?

It's possible that Joshua believed he already knew who told Minamimoto, but he was mistaken. However, I said before that there isn't any other suspect in the story and I don't think we can give Joshua another suspect to focus on without just making stuff up. Haz and Coco come to mind as people who might be able to share Joshua's identity, but we can't escape the fact that neither of them even existed at the time Joshua's main character arc was written. We would probably also have to invent some connection they'd have to this particular Game despite them being absent. I think this option is less likely than Joshua knowing about Mr. H the whole time, so I'm striking it off.

What we have left is the "Joshua didn't know he'd been sold out" option. Aside from what I've been arguing, the only other option is "Joshua thought Minamimoto found out on his own somehow." There's no solid reason for Joshua to think this, but it's possible he did anyway. The only reason I think this is less likely than the possibility that he didn't realize Minamimoto was after him is because of how Joshua talked to Neku back there. We have evidence that Joshua might have thought Minamimoto was after someone else; we don't have evidence that Joshua might have thought Minamimoto was able to discover his identity on his own. That said, after the conversation Josh had with Neku W2D2 it's possible his assumption shifted from one to the other as he was trying to figure things out.

So yeah, I believe it's most likely that Joshua didn't realize he'd been sold out at all because that would require him to think Hanekoma would do that to him. Because of that, he believed for more than a week that Neku was Minamimoto's target when they were all in the RG.

You might think that this idea would run into a lot of inconsistencies but I've found it to be shockingly coherent. (Honestly the whole background plot of this game is shockingly coherent for how overt it's themes are. I guess that's beside the point.) Like, let's look at the scene in Udagawa.

It starts with Neku looking up at the tag mural. Then Joshua runs up with a gun from Neku's left. It appears as if Joshua may have been looking behind him. Then Joshua fires in Neku's direction. Neku falls to the ground, but he is unhurt. Then Minamimoto is revealed to be behind Neku with a gun. He is clutching his shoulder. Minamimoto raises his gun, and Neku shields himself. Then several shots are fired towards Joshua. Joshua stops the bullets with his powers, and silently threatens to shoot Minamimoto again. Minamimoto runs off, and Joshua shoots Neku while he is looking after him.

If Joshua already believes that his identity is safe, none of that would clearly contradict that idea to him! Why did Josh think Minamimoto shot at him? Because Joshua already shot Minamimoto. Why was Joshua running if he didn't think Minamimoto was chasing him? To get to his target before the Reaper.

Conversely, why would Joshua be running from Minamimoto if bullets aren't going to hit him?

To us it's obvious that Minamimoto was chasing Joshua and tried to cut him off at the other end of the alley. But to Joshua at the time, he thought Minamimoto was going for the guy in between them.

This does raise some other questions, but there's enough of a case here that I think it's worth speculating off of. Did Joshua even have a theory as to why Minamimoto would be after someone in the RG? Maybe he thought Kitaniji sent one of his Reapers after his potential proxy. Why would it matter to Joshua if Minamimoto killed Neku instead of him if he needs the guy dead? Maybe it has something to do with the fact that Joshua only leaves that extra Player Pin-- his trump card-- on Neku after Minamimoto leaves.

Kind of wild so far, right? Well we're not done because I think this idea that Joshua may have had created ANOTHER oversight for him.

Week 2 Day 7: Minamimoto: I was hoping for a little reenactment. Same spot, same setup as last time… Neku: (Last time? Nrrgh! Not now!) Joshua: You OK, Neku? Neku: Waaaugh! [incomplete Neku death cutscene] Neku: It… it was you? Joshua: Neku… Neku: You killed me… You stole my life!

What's with Joshua's reactions here? Did he not realize that Neku was getting headaches around Minamimoto?

(yes)

It's understandable if you think Joshua is faking it here, but if you're with me about this so far you also have to admit that Joshua's surprise can be pretty genuine. I'll be honest, I thought this way before I thought anything else I've put in this essay so far just because Joshua and the situation seemed sincere to me. Why wouldn't Joshua notice this, though?

See, there are four times that Neku, Joshua and Minamimoto are all in the same scene. Neku gets a headache from all of them, and this is what they look like:

Maybe this is just me, but the sprite direction in all of them but the last one makes it seem like Joshua stays between Neku and Minamimoto, and that he does not take his eyes off of Minamimoto the whole time he's around. And compare day 1 to day 7. Even though Neku's sprite is the one in the middle, he retreats backwards when he gets the headache, giving the suggestion that he's actually sort of behind Joshua. That doesn't happen on day 7 though, meaning Neku is definitely far enough in front that Joshua can see him-- and that's when Joshua finally reacts.

How could Joshua misunderstanding Minamimoto's target contribute to this? Regardless of the misunderstanding here, it's clear to me that Joshua views Minamimoto as enough of a threat that he doesn't even glance at Neku while he's having a memory migraine. But the fact that Joshua does notice on W2D7 seems a little less random if that misunderstanding had cleared up for him and caused him to be less zeroed in on Minamimoto. Keep in mind that these four events split evenly into "before W2D5" and "after W2D5." That means that the first two, Joshua would have thought Neku was the target, and the last two are when Joshua knows he was the target all along.

It makes some sense that Joshua might be so focused on Minamimoto that he doesn't notice what's going on with Neku if he thought Neku was being targeted, but what's going on W2D6? Joshua should know by then it's not Neku that Minamimoto was after. Hell, Minamimoto saved both of them earlier that day so why is he so focused on him then but not the next day? I suspect it's because this was Joshua's first time talking to Minamimoto while knowing he tried to kill him, and he was very absorbed in it.

So on days 1 and 2, Joshua was totally focused on Minamimoto because he viewed him as a threat to his proxy. Day 6 Joshua is focused on Minamimoto but it's not about him being an immediate threat, and on day 7 Minamimoto is at his most dangerous, but Joshua thought he could relax more because he was the target and not Neku.

There is one more thing that might keep this from the list of "Shit Joshua Did Not Know About," and it's the fact that Neku… talks? He talks while he's in migraine pain. Joshua may not spare a glance Neku's way but he can hear. Would that not tip him off earlier than W2D7 if he wasn't just ignoring Neku? Funny that-- the dialogue is actually sort of clever here.

Neku talks a decent amount when he's getting that memory migraine around Minamimoto, but the most suspect lines Neku has aren't spoken by him out loud.

Week 2 Day 2: Minamimoto: You fractals have no future! QED. Class is dismissed! [Minamimoto leaves] Neku: (Finally… The pounding's stopped. What language is that guy speaking?)

Week 2 Day 6: Neku: !? Zetta… Neku: (Nrrgh! My head… again…) […] Neku: (The pain's fading… Are he and I connected or something?)

Earlier on (as in the two days Joshua is most focused on Minamimoto as a threat) Neku does also speak out loud about his brain suffering. If Joshua isn't looking at him as well though, they're all things he could interpret as Neku simply complaining about the Weird Math Guy Who Says Confusing Things Through A Megaphone. Neku doesn't like people being loud or people speaking nonsense after all, and uh… Joshua also didn't have the highest opinion of Neku's sociability. Assumptions are a hell of a thing.

So Joshua went into his Game with Neku completely unaware that Hanekoma betrayed him and that Minamimoto was trying to kill him specifically. Then he carried on for nearly the majority of this game without knowing that Minamimoto-- or perhpas the combination of him and Minamimoto-- was giving his proxy debilitating headaches. What does that mean for his character?

Little, but interesting things, I think. I find it pretty compelling that Joshua missed something big about Neku because he was so self-involved even while trying to protect him. It's a neat thing to point at and go "yup, Neku's not the only one who looks stupid for writing people off." I think it also lends well to the idea that they were both getting to know each other in week 2.

Also-- we're coming back to that pin from earlier-- I think it helps flesh out a difference between Neku and Joshua's situations at the end of the game.

Neku: I'm glad I met you guys. You made me… pick up on things, I probably would've just gone on ignoring. Trust your partner… and I do. I can't forgive you, but I trust you.

If you've collected all the secret reports, after Neku's ending monologue and the credits, there's the secret ending. And I feel like the idea of "trust vs. forgiveness" is a palpable element when the ending is viewed as a whole like this. TWEWY doesn't touch upon the idea of forgiveness nearly as much as it does the idea of trust, but I can't help but see a distinction between the two in Joshua just as much as Neku. Only where Neku trusts Joshua but doesn't forgive him yet, Joshua forgives Hanekoma but doesn't trust him yet.

Think about it, doesn't "forgives but does not trust" perfectly describe all of Joshua's future behavior towards Hanekoma? He'll hang around Mr. H in the Room of Reckoning and 104, or talk with him casually about the destruction of a neighboring city. But he wont talk to him if he's upset, or tell him any of his plans anymore. He doesn't seem to hold any of it against Mr. H but he refuses to confide in or rely on him. That turnaround feels really strong if you look at how much Joshua relied on him beforehand. Or if you view his impression of his assassination attempt as contingent on his trust of Mr. H.

The crumbs of information we get about Joshua and Hanekoma's relationship after the betrayal might seem sort of circumstantial. Joshua doesn't want to talk about his feelings for Neku in the secret ending. That carries over into A New Day, and seems to be about Neku. And then in NEO Joshua doesn't give any information to Mr. H for… unknowable NEO plot reasons. But there's something else between og TWEWY and NEO to suggest that Joshua doesn't trust Hanekoma with shit.

A New Day- Hanekoma (over the phone): If that kid is who I think he is, then he probably doesn't know a thing. If he's who YOU think he is, then he probably won't say a thing.

At first this reads fine because Joshua spent his week with Neku tight lipped and evasive as hell. But still, isn't it a little weird for Mr. H to be saying this? He tells Mr. H stuff, doesn't he? Not anymore! It feels like this Hanekoma is talking pretty universally despite having been the exception. But he doesn't know shit and he doesn't propose he can help them know shit if it's about Joshua. And maybe Coco's fake Shibuya has something to do with that, but it's hard to say.

Honestly, aside from gaining the perspective to not destroy a whole city (important), it's easy to look at this and wonder if Joshua came out of TWEWY worse off. And… yeah, NEO really doesn't seem to help that. But I'm going to end this off with some really vague NEO speculation.

What if it's REALLY just Hanekoma who doesn't know shit about Joshua now? It's probably impossible to know the extent of this, but for some reason Shiki and Beat seem to treat Joshua with a slight sense of familiarity now…? The fandom also (quite reasonably) assumes that the real final day of NEO is the first time Neku has seen Joshua since the final day of TWEWY but we don't actually know that. Some food for thought.

#twewy #the world ends with you #ntwewy #joshua kiryu #twewy analysis #sanae hanekoma #sho minamimoto #neku sakuraba #my theory #idk if this counts more as theory or analysis but i can tag both #twewy meta #<-there thats probably better #scabby.txt

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zyzix · 1 year

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it’s been this long since the release of NEO and what happens to Neku is still like. the Hardest thing to swallow in the story. it’s so bad from both a character writing and thematic point of view

the first thing people think about when they meet Neku again is that he is seriously OOC, but it’s not that simple. it goes deeper than that. It seems like he’s behaving this way for a reason but the reason That seems to be is ALSO an alarming turn for his character with no apparent explanation. What i mean:

Stage One is thinking Neku is OOC because he gets along with everyone pretty easily and isn’t grumpy and doesn’t seem to have a lot of thoughts about being stuck in the ruins of a dead city for three years straight

Stage Two is realizing that we don’t see Neku’s internal monologue in this game except a SINGLE exception in Another Day. Suddenly, he seems like Neku again. So on top of the character development we can know and assume he has had, he’d probably sound really normal to us in his head. Things like his characteristic snark, his internal logic for doing things, and his feelings about being isolated from everything he cares about for three years must simply be hidden away from us and the other characters.

Stage Three is remembering how much disdain Neku originally had for insincerity or fake-ness.

That brings us back to just... how much our current Neku exists and bends to suit the story of NEO, as opposed to being an extension of his previous self. Before, Neku hated how people would pretend, and pretend to be friendly (though he’d conflate the two.) Now I have to assume that Neku is pretending himself. There was supposed to be middle ground here related to opening up, I thought.

Now is it possible for someone to do a 180 like that? Certainly! But it’s another form of development we can’t actually look at the source for, in NEO. We don’t have the evidence to know Neku is this way through any natural, watsonian means. We only have the doylist side, the things we can see. We can only feel the author’s hand, and it pushes us towards trying to write Neku’s actual character ourselves. Do the work to make it make sense ourselves. If you’re still around, that’s what you’re doing.

Because no one understands NEO. This extends beyond Neku, but it’s really severe with him because sometimes when you see a characterization mishap like this you can at least interrogate the story for what good it did. If you do that for Neku in NEO there’s not much to come back with. What’s one of the themes of NEO? Oh, like being proactive, and self determination, and thinking for yourself and that stuff right? Then surely it makes sense for our beloved previous protagonist who we dragged back into this story to return to a life he actually had no active part in building for years. He’s been written for NEO’s convenience, not NEO’s good.

Maybe the worst part is that even when acknowledging that we can only put bandaids onto this situation, none of them can really be satisfying. Sure, I can try to make this cohere with Neku’s existing character arc, but the answers that make the most sense are always going to be the ones that suck. You take what we have for Neku and all you get for working with it is like. Fret’s arc about bein real? Minus the narrative resolution, minus the foundations in the narrative for resolution, plus more narrative baggage. Or a story where Neku feels more at home in the UG than the RG. Or a story about coping with the nitty gritty unreality of reality rewriting, or imposter syndrome, or trying to make up for a time in your youth you can never really get back.

I’m rambling at this point but it makes it really painful to look back at where og TWEWY left off, doesn’t it? Enough that i lost count of how many times i thought about writing a post like this. It’s the kind of thing that’ll bum you out no matter how interestingly you spin it.

#twewy #ntwewy #ntwewy spoilers #neo the world ends with you #the world ends with you #neku sakuraba #Subarashiki Kono Sekai #subaseka #scabby.txt

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