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silvantransthranduiltrash · 10 months

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Kinslaying is a Social Construct

Basically exactly what I said on the tin, I think that “kinslaying” was a social construct taught by the valar to the noldor, teleri, vanyar etc. Not murder, that’s not a social construct, but the taboo of “kinslaying” is absolutely a social construct, like virginity, probably created sometime after the valar came.

The reason I say this because only when the feanorians killed people it’s called kinslaying, but when on other occasions we see elf on elf murder (eol killing adrehal, Turgon executing Eol, when elves fight back and kill feanorians (which is self defense, don’t get me wrong, but still technically murder)) it’s not really referred to as kinslaying (as far as I’m aware)

And if Kinslaying had actual physical consequences on elven faer beyond what you’d expect if an elf were to kill a human or dwarf or something, I would certainly think that at least Turgon would have been a lot more hesitant in executing Eol as opposed to another punishment.

Also, technically orcs are elves but twisted, so technically killing orcs is also kinslaying to some degree.

In other words, kinslaying is hyped as this ultimate taboo that elves absolutely should not ever do, yet as far as I’m aware it doesn’t actually have consequences outside of the standard “you killed someone” ones.

Like, even Thingol’s reaction to the feanorians’ first kinslaying of alqualond can be justified as “you massacred unarmed people” which is in and of itself already bad enough.

Also, I refuse to believe that, when the elves first awoke under the stars before the valar came, they magically knew that killing is wrong/an over reaction, or how to deal with negative emotions in a none destructive way. I personally think those first years were messy af.

So yeah, kinslaying is actually more of a social construct created and taught by the valar when the elves came to aman, and outside of Mandos’ judgement of “you killed people” it doesn’t actually have any specific consequences.

I also think that “kinslaying” is a lot rarer than human on human murder because elves, by virtue of being immortal, have a higher bs tolerance and are a lot less prone to over the top emotional outbursts, which leads itself to being a lot less likely to commit murder than other mortal races would. And this I turn means that when an elf does kill another elf it’s viewed as much more horrific than other types of murder which lends itself to the “kinslaying is taboo” mindset.

Side note: the Avari and the silvans, by virtue of not giving half a damn about the valar, think the way the noldor, teleri, vanyar, and even sindars stress about “kinslaying” is pretentious and just call it murder.

My silvan trans thranduil au:

Thranduil: *hears a non-silvan/avari elf talk about the taboo of kinslaying*

Thranduil: just call it murder like a normal person.

Ps: once again this is my interpretation of the text, you are free to think whatever you want.

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curufiin · 1 month

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Quick doodle for where i think curvo’s burns are. Might change this tbh but i do think they’re much more widespread than he wants you to think

#the silmarillion #silmarillion #curufin #sons of feanor #silm art #art #maybe some more on his right abdomen too but we’ll see #theres a bit of scarring on his neck and face but its hidden bu the hair RIP

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zeldanna-art · 2 years

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back into some silm drawing with this shitty meme

#silm #silmarillion #feanor #feanor you fucker #rip amrod #meme

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silmawensgarden · 11 months

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Maedhros in his garden, cutting flowers.

This one is from early February, I had tried a more semi-realistic approach to drawing him.

° Which elf should I draw next? Currently having s hard time choosing 😂

#maedhros #silmarillion #feanorians #tolkien #elves #sons of feanor #silm art #silmawensgarden #maitimo #nelyafinwe #RIP to one of my best skin-tone markers :')

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makalauriels · 1 year

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All of you who say you want to fuck Charles Edwards Celebrimbor are so valid and have the best taste in the world.

#Rings of Power #Kissing all of you on the forehead #RIP to everyone else #We love one last scion of the House of Feanor no matter what #Celebrimbor

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nighttimepatrons · 4 months

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God, I make one too many jokes and now Finarfin has a spanked-by-Nerdanel kink 😔

#finarfin #you read one distressing fanfic and start making joke to cope and look where it gets you #middle earth #rip feanor now you have to make sure findis And finarfin stay away from your wife..... sorry pal

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red-winters · 1 year

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i can’t believe the majority chose Glorfindel in the zombie apocalypse: choose your fighter poll (silm edition). so what if he’s cheerful and has good hair. what happens AFTER he self sacrifices and DIES to buy the post apocalyptic refugees/you time to get away??? there are still (presumably) MORE zombies out there and your protection is gone!!!

#at least Finrod can build an underground city!!!#and while the efficacy and safety of ripping a zombie's throat out with his teeth is a VERY questionable method of self defense #it is still respectable!!!!#sure Glorfindel came back EVENTUALLY but that was what? a thousand plus years later? by the grace of the Valar??? HELLO #blogchatter #that being said everybody in the tags is hilarious and make good points #except for the Feanor voters #i feel like y'all just want to watch the world burn #i feel like the best scenario is living in a fortress managed by both Finrod AND Maedhros

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nin-varisse · 1 year

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Reading the Silmarillion for me was like: Wow the Feanorians are all horrible, horrible people, I don't get why they have so many fans?

Actually I feel very sorry for Maedhros, he's such a tortured (literally) soul and man, he deserved better! He lost his "best friend" (wink wink) and he tried to save Elurin and Elured. The rest sucks tho. Actually Maglor also didn't deserve such a horrible fate??? He tried to raise Elrond and Elros as well as he could and the Oath just absolutely ripped his soul into pieces. But the 3 Cs are still horrible. Well Caranthir did actually keep himself out of most conflicts and he did save Haleth and her people, he doesn't seem like a bad person per se... But Celegorm and Curufin suck, they are responsible for Finrod's death! If I think about it I feel a little sorry for Curufin. All he was seen as is Feanor 2.0, I mean even his mother called him "little dad". Surely it's no wonder how he turned out considering he was always in the direct shadow of "the greatest" noldor to ever exist. But Celegorm sucks extra bad, he tried to force Luthien to marry him! But in the end, all he wanted to be was a hunter, he wasn't responsible for his father's Oath. Also he was left by his only loyal companion, that probably drove him even more to madness.

But I'll never excuse Feanor's behaviour! He's responsible for the Oath upon his sons and therefore for their deeds and he started the first kinslaying over some stupid boats! He's the most terrible character ever! ... Actually satan himself whispered him into his ear for 60 years and he wasn't entirely wro-

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annoyinglandmagazine · 1 year

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Maedhros is ridiculously overprotective

During their childhood if any of the siblings were getting bothered by someone and they yelled for Nelyo he would drop everything and come running immediately. One time at a family gathering Curvo had started a fight with Argon and was losing. Badly. He hadn’t even gotten to the start of the second syllable and Maedhros was pulling them off each other with a first aid kit. He had been at the other side of the house in the middle of a conversation. Curvo hadn’t even yelled that loudly.

One time he found out Kano was being picked on. He was the equivalent of 15 and Maglor was like 12. He found Maglor crying after some 16 year olds had ripped up some of his music sheets. That was the first time Maedhros ever held a sword to someone’s throat. He had to be pulled off by three guards and no one could believe it because he was meant to be the well behaved sibling. When Feanor found out he was ridiculously proud and told Nelyo as much. Nerdanel glared at him disapprovingly but secretly agreed.

I firmly believe that even the whole way through the first age any of the brothers just needs to send one vague letter saying they might be in a bit trouble. Maedhros will be diverting the majority of his army to track them down wherever they are and make sure they’re ok. If Aredhel was Maedhros’ sibling Eol would have been found in a week and would be begging to be killed by the end of the week.

Anytime any of the Sinda diplomats get too aggressive towards Tyelko and Curvo about certain things Nelyo will make it clear that, yes, what they did was wrong and he’s aware they’re adults who made their own choices. But. They are also his little baby brothers so would you be so kind as to take a step back before he does something he most certainly would not regret. Everyone thinks Maedhros is scary enough to negotiate with on political matters. But that’s nothing compared to dealing with Protective Older Brother Maedhros.

Maedhros was very angry about the Angrod incident. He yelled at Caranthir for about half an hour. Moryo had apologised as soon as he’d seen Nelyo’s face but Maedhros still felt as if he couldn’t let his brother off so easily over something like this. He looked down at Caranthir’s face while he was in the middle of it and then he just stopped. Because that’s Moryo. This isn’t some general who went against his orders, that’s his baby brother and he looks like he’s about to cry. And he just hugs him. He knows it’s not even remotely the right thing to do, he can’t just not punish his brothers after they jeopardise relations with their allies. But damn it, he just can’t cope with any of his siblings look at him like that.

Maedhros loves his siblings a lot ok? Is this sort of about Maedhros losing the older sibling poll? Maybe.

#Silmarillion #tolkien #maedhros #feanorians #maglor #curufin #celegorm #caranthir #feanor #nerdanel #sons of feanor

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imfromthemiddlekingdom · 13 days

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When I engage with the Silmarilion fandom it’s always very educational and enlightening no matter what side they’re on regarding Finwe and his sons. But whenever I interact with the HoTD fandom it’s always “you’re condoning XYZ and therefore you’re a horrible person!!!” Or doing mental gymnastics to try to justify whichever atrocities their side committed.

Thematically both stories are quite similar. We can find parallels with Rhaenyra and Feanor but even at his worst (Pulling a sword on Fingolfin, First kinslaying, burning of the ships etc.) Feanor had never put a bounty on a toddler (Rhaenyra stating that Maelor should be bought to her dead or alive causing him to be ripped apart. Like hello??!??? How is that ever a justifiable thing to do???). I can find parallels between Feanor and Rhaenyra, sure. But if I’m honest the parallels stop with them being the only child of a kings first wife who’s father then went on to face four more kids with another women. Finwe is ten times the father Viserys was. And literally none of the kids (Feanor included) would ever take their anger out on their siblings child like we see the so called Maegor come again do.

But I digress, I was talking of the fandom. I may get heated talking about whether Feanor was right in his anger at Indis or whether Fingolfin should’ve absolutely demanded more reparations from the sons of Feanor when he crossed the ice. But I’ve never seen anyone in the Silm fandom saying that someone should die because they had an opinion.

But I’ve seen many instances of HoTD fans threatening rape and death on people who think Alicent is not the monster they portray her as, or that Rhaenyra isn’t as ‘girl boss queen slay!!!’ As people say she is. Maybe it’s because HoTD is a TV show and many of the fans haven’t read the books and therefore don’t understand nuance since the TV show focuses so much on Rhaenyra’s manifest destiny arc that team green gets painted as the ‘ultimate’ villain for our girl boss queen Rhaenyra to ascend to the throne since it’s her ‘birth right’.

Not to mention how the whole made up show canon prophecy to justify colonialism means that team black stans are really showing their true colors on what they think is right. Because guess what? The Silm also has what could be said to be as a colonizing story line with the Noldor coming to Beleriand and settling but most fans agree that the cutting up of Beleriand was very much a colonizing behavior no matter what they think of Thingol.

Point is, most HoTD fans can’t hold and intellectually simulating debate over their characters without feeling like said debater is personally attacking them since their entire personality is so deeply entwined with their fav that a critique on them would automatically equate to a critique on themselves. Therefore making it entirely impossible to have a decent conversation on the thematically very important foils that Rhaenyra and Alicent pose to each other (since they still think a good story must have a black and white view of the protagonist and the antagonist lmao).

Media illiteracy in these fandoms truly is a cancer that spreads to even the most level headed and literate individuals. Pick up a book! Understand themes and how foils are supposed to be written without internalizing criticism of your fav as a criticism of yourself! I don’t get mad when people criticize Feanor, nor do I get mad when people say I’m wrong when it comes to my own interpretation of the statue of Finwe and Miriel. It’s called having a discussion and you can only do that when you’re not on the front lines dying for a fictional character who wouldn’t spit on you if you were on fire in front of them!!!

#media literacy #hotd #the silmarillion #feanor #pro alicent hightower #alicent hightower #anti team black stans #anti team black #pro team green #please I’m begging for people in this god forsaken fandom to stop defending a fictional character with your life #cw rape #anti rhaenyra targaryen #anti Rhaenyra Targaryen fans #rhaenyra targaryen #as you can see I despair at the lack of reading comprehension skills and media literacy skills most team black stans have #literally head empty only girl boss slay queen omg she’s such a boss bitch!!!!#if you can’t recognize the flaws in your fav character maybe don’t debate their actions online?#like #a character having irredeemable flaws is like half the reason you like them

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esotheria-sims · 4 months

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hi esotheria! could you pleade tell me where you got the bedding and the bed here: /esotheria-sims/737611340243435520/lucan-could-hardly-believe-his-fortune-there-he?source=share

and maybe also lucian's hair?

I absolutely love your newest gameplay pics btw! your game is so stunning, I can't stop looking at it!

Hi nonnie, sorry I took a bit longer to get back to you! Finding those beddings proved trickier than I thought!

[post in question]

The opulent bed and bedding from my recent BaCC post is an old set by SimAges, recolored & edited by Wawa at TheMedievalSmithy. It used to be available for download here and here, but the Box links got busted in the meantime so I gathered everything I had of the set and reuploaded it here for you.

The specific meshes I used for Feanor's bedroom are the Sleigh bed + Antique Tester Bed canopy, combined with the ornate dark blue bedding by Wawa (all included in my reupload). All credits for the meshes and recolors go to SimAges and Wawa (RIP💔)!

As for Lucian's sleek ponytail, it's @timeparadoxsims' retexture of Nightcrawler Ella FtM (V2)! The platinum blond shade that Lucian dons is a quick 'Primer' recolor I whipped together for personal use.

#ask #anonymous #wcif #wcif buy mode #wcif bed #wcif bedding #wcif bodyshop #wcif hair

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amethysttribble · 1 month

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AU of my own AU, inspired by this post: the Seven Sons of Feanor and their father are reborn much closer together, but not in nearly so advantageous a position. The year is 259 AC.

@blue-ink-pearls

Celegorm jerked awake, coughing and hacking. His tongue felt frozen in his mouth and there was blackness swirling in his eyes. The darkness, the cold, seeping ever closer, it clung to his sweaty skin. There were heaps of blankets on top of him and, despite the cold, he kicked them off.

Trapped, I can’t be trapped, he thought, panicky, I must fly.

But the evil thing in his dreams had ripped out his wings and he felt the wounds on his back like they were real. He felt grief for them. A sob crawled up his throat even as he heaved for breath, oh, it was was hard to breathe.

Celegorm was so cold and he had no wings. He needed fire, heat; he needed to fly! The evil thing was coming, he must-

“Cel?”

He was shaking as he looked over at little Curufin, seated next to him on the cot he, Celegorm, and Caranthir called a bed, which they shared.

“Finny,” he gasped out. He didn’t want- He couldn’t scare his baby brother. “Where- what time is it?”

Curufin had in his hands what looked like a quarter of an apple, and he was licking the juice off his fingers as he said, “Hm, morning. The bells rang for first service a while ago. But you’ve been in the fever sleep for two whole days! Mae and Maggie and even ‘Ran have been really worried, though they try to pretend they’re not.”

Two days. Celegorm should be hungry, but all he felt was a pit of nausea in his stomach. He put his head between his legs.

“Then there’s little hope old Mycah will let me keep my job.”

Maedhros had gone to a lot of trouble to get Celegorm work down at the docks; good work, too, because he was tall for his age and strong. But that job had come with strict times and rules to follow from the dock warden, Mycah, a salt old cur, who never really liked Celegorm to begin with. It was just a favor for Maedhros.

No, he wasn’t likely to be lenient.

The anger and frustration had such a clawing grip on him, Celegorm didn’t even look up when he felt a little hand touch his arm.

“It’s okay,” Curufin said, “Maggie’s been making good money, staying out all night.”

And now Maglor was walking the streets all night, singing from dusk til dawn, to make up for Celegorm’s stupid bullshit.

“Fuck,” he muttered, standing up suddenly. He threw his gross, soiled shirt and pants off and went hunting for better clothes.

With seven brothers, there was scarcely a stitch of cloth to share between them, but he managed to scrounge up some old items of Maedhros’s that were too big for Maglor; they were waiting for Celegorm to grow into them and repair them then, which was probably still a few years off, but they would do for now. Too long and wide and riddled with holes, but Celegorm really didn’t care.

Not right now.

“‘Suppose they’re both still at work,” he snapped as he tied a piece of rope around his waist like a belt.

“Aye,” Curufin’s tiny voice piped up, much meeker than before. Celegorm looked down at him as the boy- just seven- came closer.

He was looking at his feet when he said, “You’re better now. Right?”

The cold was still wrapped around his bones, but Celegorm said, “‘Course. Where ‘Ran and the little’uns?”

Curufin looked skeptical, but did perk up a little as he said, “Watchin’ the twins. I’m supposed to watch you!”

Celegorm ruffled his hair.

“You did a good job. Come on. Let’s you and I get some air. This room is foul.”

Forcefully, Celegorm grabbed one of Finny’s sticky hands. He was met with no resistance as he dragged his little brother out the bedroom all seven of them shared and into the rest of the house. As reported, Caranthir was seated at the table with Amrod and Amras, trying to play cards with them. How did you play cards with three year olds?

“You’re awake!” Caranthir squeaked when he saw them, grin massive. Amrod and Amras gave happy cries as well, but Celegorm didn’t stop to really greet them. He was too filled with shame and anger to let his brothers be kind.

“We’re going to the Sept,” he said, walking right past them, “be home soon.”

“Ah, but, Cel-“

He was gone before Caranthir could finish his protest. He didn’t feel too bad about abandoning Caranthir with the twins, not like he used to when he first started working all day. Caranthir had just turned ten then, forced to look after the two year old twins and six year old Curufin, but without Father, there really hadn’t been any other options.

Oh, Father… he would have been able to help Celegorm understand the dreams.

But Father was gone, and so was the life they used to live on the Street of Steel. They were in Flea Bottom now, the place the people who killed Father- if you can’t prove that, you best not be repeating it, Mae would always say, but Maggie would say, be smarter and more patient- said they belonged, Feanor’s gaggle of whore’s sons.

Gathered from six different mothers, all different brothels, if a woman asked him, ‘please take my son’, he did. No questions were asked about the real father. Their Father was very kind, and perhaps overly confident.

Seven sons just meant seven orphans, now. Maedhros did his best, but…

Make their lives easier, Celegorm thought, eyeing a burning pit that someone was cooking over, throw yourself on the flames.

He tightened his grip on Curufin’s hand and kept walking.

Their journey up Visenya’s hill was silent and felt tense enough to snap Celegorm in half. But his breathing eased once the Great Sept of Baelor came into view. The bells had just started ringing for noon service.

“Do we have to pray?” Curufin whined.

“Yes.”

The went inside and the smell of incense finally warmed Celegorm up somewhat. Started to melt the ice of his bones. The beautiful rainbow lights chased away the darkness. Here, he did not need to be scared that he couldn’t fly. The Seven would protect him.

Celegorm let Curufin go finally as he took a second to stand in the middle of the Sept and just breathe. His brother wandered off to the statue of the Smith, as he always did. Celegorm wasn’t nearly so partial to one aspect of the Seven but today…

Today he knelt in front of the Maiden.

He clasped his hands together and dug his nails into his skin and squeezed his eyes shut so hard that tears sprung to the corners of them.

Please, he thought, please protect my little brothers. Please tell me you’re looking. You see, right? It’s coming. I don’t know when it’s coming, they might not be children anymore, but please. Please keep this summer lush for a while longer. Please take care of us when the bad thing comes. Please cure of me whatever’s wrong with me. Please, please, please-

Eventually, he had no more words to beg with and started to recite every prayer he knew.

When he came up for air, much later, his knees ached and he was glad of it. Celegorm felt that if he hurt, the Maiden might see him more clearly. His words might be louder.

He kissed the statues robes before backing away.

Curufin was no longer praying to the Smith, but that was to be expected. He hadn’t gone far, though, no, he was talking to the septon who was equally partial to the Smith and thus always kind to eager Finny.

“An, young Celegorm,” the Brother said as he approached them, smiling, “Curufin was just telling me you have been ill and that is why we have not seen you recently. Is there anything we can do to help?”

The idea of admiting his horrid fever dreams to the blessed septon made Celegorm choke up with fear and revulsion and shame, so he shook his head.

He just held out his hand for Curufin to take, which his brother dutifully did.

“No, Septon, but thank you. I’m much better now. But, ah, if you hear anyone praying for a new worker who is strong…?”

“Ah,” the Septon said with a slight laugh, “yes, I see. Well, I’m sure the Seven will guide some soul here to receive precisely that sort of help.”

He winked, and it made Celegorm smile slightly.

He said his thanks again and made Curufin say his, then they bid their farewells. They started to walk home, and as they went, Curufin swung their joined hands.

Once they reached the bottom of the hill, Curufin said, “Happy Nameday, by the way.”

“What?”

“Your nameday, it was yesterday. You’re four and ten, now.”

“Oh,” Celegorm muttered. He didn’t feel four and teen. He felt like, whenever he dreamed, he lived decades in seconds. Thousands of years of waiting as the darkness and cold crawled closer, breathless with dread, helpless to stop it as his wings were ripped out time and time again. “Is that why you had an apple?”

Curufin grinned at him guiltily.

“Mae bought it for you, but he said ‘Ran, the babies, and I could share before it went bad.”

“Mae is smart,” Celegorm sighed.

“I thought you’d be mad,” Curufin said.

“I’m not mad.”

“I wish you were. The fever sleeps are making you too sad. You used to get mad.”

He did, didn’t he? But that was then and this was now. The night those jealous murderers burned the forge they called their home down changed a lot of things.

That was the first night he had one of his dreams.

“Yeah, well,” Celegorm muttered, “maybe I’m just more mature now, being four and ten.”

“Nuh-uh.”

“Uh-huh.”

“Nuh-uh!”

Celegorm laughed. He squeezed Curufin’s hand and laughed through the exhaustion, thankful to the Maiden that at least he had such a silly little brother to lighten his spirits.

“Sure whatever you say,” he said, sticking his tongue out. “Do you know where Maggie is singing today? We can go bother him.”

With a wicked grin, Curufin pulled his hand from Celegorm’s and took off running. He ran after him.

Elsewhere, Summerhall burned.

#everlasting song #do I know what this is? no #I just had… a strong mental image that needed to be realized #I am compelled to kill off feanor in all versions of this au #Tribble post #fanfic

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doodle-pops · 11 months

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ahhhhh i’m so excited this made my day!

fëanorians reacting to their s/o loving to cross stitch/embroider and stitching little designs into hidden spots in their clothes for them to find later? 🫶🏼

It's a joyous activity they look forward to whenever they wear a new piece of clothing or one that's been torn. Rushing to the area that's been ripped, their eyes would fall upon the happy stitches you've left in the form of the sun or flowers, or even a heart. Not the type to purposefully tear their clothes and then rush to have you fix them, but the ones who attempt to reduce tears, because they understand constantly stitching, is tiring.

Maedhros, MAGLOR, CARANTHIR, CELEBRIMBOR

They are surprised by the little patterns they come across on their articles of clothing one day as they try on their usual torn-up apparel. The little glimmer of brighter colours on their monotonous garb shocks them but also makes a smile form. When they go through all their torn-up apparel and realised that you've fixed them all with patterns, they won't brace you or anything. Instead, they would constantly get their clothes torn up to have you fix them.

Feanor, CELEGORM, Curufin, AMROD, AMRAS

#reactions #maedhros x reader #caranthir x reader #celebrimbor x reader #feanor x reader #maglor x reader #celegorm x reader #curufin x reader #amras x reader #amrod x reader #feanorians #silmarillion imagine #doodlepops responds

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kradogsrats · 1 year

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COUGH OKAY so like, just saying

The Silmarils were three diamond-like gems created from sacred light, so pure that “unclean” or evil hands were burned by touching them. Feanor, who forged them, initially wore them upon his brow so all could see them, but fell into greed and paranoia and eventually hid them from everyone but his immediate family.

(Feanor, incidentally, was not necessarily manipulated directly by Melkor/Morgoth but still influenced by his manipulations toward all kinds of horrible falls, including the first slaying of elves by elves. Even his unmanipulated behavior reinforced the lies of Morgoth meant to sow dissension among the elves. Very flawed dude.)

Morgoth (essentially Middle Earth satan) stole the Silmarils and set all three in his crown. (When he was eventually defeated, that crown would be reforged into a collar for his neck.) After the theft, Feanor and his sons swore an oath to wage war against anyone who withheld a Silmaril from them, beginning a terrible cycle of violence.

One Silmaril was recovered before Morgoth’s defeat by Beren and Luthien (the fantasy ur-example of human/elf true love couples and Tolkien’s self-insert of him and his wife). Beren was determined to retrieve the Silmaril as an impossible bride-price for Luthien’s hand, some weird shit happened that involved both of them dying and then being restored to the world as paired mortals, etc. etc. make of that what you will. The recovered Silmaril itself was eventually returned to the Valar (great and ancient beings of power, i.e. great ones) in a gesture of repentance for that one time they begged Feanor to return the gems so their light could heal the two sacred trees that were their original source, which had been destroyed by Morgoth, and he had refused in his greed. That returned Silmaril was set in the sky as a star.

The other two were recovered from Morgoth’s crown at his defeat, and then stolen again by Feanor’s only two surviving sons--at which time the jewels burned their hands, for they had been corrupted in the terrible deeds they had committed pursuing them.

So we’ve got themes of light, stars, three gems of great power and symbolism that are the only ones of their kind in the world, are connected to great and ancient beings, manipulation of flawed elven heroes and even more flawed swaths of humanity by evil beings, eventual imprisonment of evil, and a union of human and elf in love.

We also know that there are some massive Tolkien nerds involved in this show, absolutely for sure.

From the TDP side, we have this fucking crown, bearing the reported only three quasar diamonds ever to exist in the world. The crown appears in no concept art that I saw, particularly not of Aaravos himself. What does appear in Aaravos concept art is the diamond mark in his chest appearing to be depicted as a literal gemstone, glowing with light:

Where am I going with this? I DON’T FUCKING KNOW. Are the quasar diamonds ripped from the chests of Startouch elves? If the gem in the relic staff is one of them, could it be that Aaravos pulled its power source out of himself and bound it into his creation, Sauron-style? WHO WORE THE FUCKING CROWN??? Is it significant that we see Aditi’s brow glow with light in the history sequence? Is it significant that Sunfire elves also grow their sacred light in trees?

WHERE IS THIS GOING I’M LITERALLY GOING TO EXPLODE

#the dragon prince #tdp spoilers #the dragon prince spoilers #aaravos #i am truly not a tolkien nerd of any kind so this is just kind of a vague summary #there's a lot more weird metaphysical shit going on iirc #i've literally never read any of the books i just had a crush on a girl with an elf OC once

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valacirya · 5 months

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So i wanted to send an ask about thingol, especially regarding the "cultural genocide" anon. I in no way want to sound rude, but I do disagree with a lot of points.

Re the quenya ban: while I would not describe it as an act of a cultural genocide, I still do not think Thingol was justified in doing it. There are many ways to enforce consequences besides banning the language of an entire ethnos. It does not bear many consequences asides symbolics at all.

One might say Thingol was protecting the culture of Sindar from assimilation by the Noldor: but by the time he placed the ban the Noldor were in Beleriand for well over sixty years, during which they managed to lay a siege on Angband. Maybe Thingol realises that they will not be able to defeat Morgoth without the Valar: but the alternative is to be killed by Morgoth now, because the Valar won't come, and the Siege of Angband does prevent Morgoth from doing it. Nonetheless, the Noldor have a) proven that they have come to Beleriand to fight Morgoth and b) did not commit any acts of cultural crimes, and the lands they settled on were given to them by Thingol. If anything, if Thingol thinks the language to be that important to the culture, it's he who strives to culturally assimilate the Noldor, not vice versa.

It is also worth noting that the main reason the Noldor came to Beleriand - one of the main reasons Feanor was motivated to come to Beleriand - is because they wanted to fight and defeat Morgoth. "Lands to rule" were one of the motives Fëanor used to persuade the crowd, and they worked - but, again, the lands the Noldor settled in are given to them by Thingol. Besides, Galadriel (whose main motivation were lands to rule) spends most of the First Age ruling nothing and living in Doriath instead; Finrod, who has the biggest kingdom and similar motivations to Galadriel, got his lands by Thingol's will too.

Re: racism; Thingol is known for being racist/xenephobic/discriminating. There's literally no going around that. First, the Sindar (whom Thingols is the leader of) hunt down the Petty Dwarves; then, the humans were not allowed to cross the Girdle, with Beren being the first exception due to the power of Doom or similar forces (and, after Beren, Thingol debates imprisoning Morwen in the CoH, which shows he does not view her as his equal - and, let's be honest, after lifetime in Angband it does not take much to pity Húrin); and, notably, he calls dwarves an "uncouth race" (top ten last words, rip my guy).

Thingol is a great character, and often gets a lot of undeserved hate, but he also has his own flaws, often very serious. I in no way want to sound rude or offensive or "shit on" your posts, as the last anon said, but this has bugged me, so I wanted to state my opinion.

Thank you for the ask, anon, and I appreciate the way you worded it.

I agree that banning Quenya was not a good thing, but I understand why he did it. I'm not sure what other consequences he could have enforced? He didn't have the military force to take on the Noldor (I don't think he would have even if he did since he recognized them as allies against Morgoth). There's no concept of trade sanctions or economic consequences. The Noldor wouldn't let their princes stand trial in Doriath. The ban was also a soft power move to demonstrate that the Sindar were loyal to Thingol above all. Symbolic power is important, and it was a response to the kinslaying.

I disagree with the claim that the Noldor didn't commit any cultural heritage crimes. The theft and burning of the Teleri's swan ships was absolutely a cultural crime. And the Teleri used to be Thingol's people and are his brother's people.

I also agree with his decision to not fight. Like I said, Doriath had to survive. He knew about the Doom and avoided being enmeshed in it (until the business with the Silmaril, which was absolutely a bad move). The Girdle was strong enough to withstand Morgoth, and Thingol had fought and won against him once (though at great cost); multiple times in the Silm he is said to be Morgoth's enemy so I don't think for a second that he abandoned the fight. His decision to stay out of the fight was strategically sound and in Doriath's interest. Not to mention he accepted Sindarin refugees after Bragollach and Noldorin refugees after the fall of Nargothrond.

You have a good point that the Noldor dwelt in the land that Thingol allowed them to. Personally, though, I don't think this or the ban was an attempt to assimilate the Noldor but rather to protect the Sindarin people and culture. Thingol may not have been able to defend those lands, but the Sindar do consider him king of Beleriand as evidenced by their immediate enforcement of his decree.

If I recall correctly, the Finwean grandchildren all wanted to go to Beleriand to rule. I think it was a motivation almost equal to the desire to defeat Morgoth. The language Feanor uses to describe Beleriand I feel has uncomfortable undertones. In my opinion, Galadriel's decision to stay in Doriath was an acknowledgment of that and her complicity in the theft of the swan ships, her decision to continue after the kinslaying and also lying by omission to Thingol and Melian. And for Celeborn of course.

Lastly, I agree that Thingol often acted discriminately. However, he is shown to change his behavior when he learns better. If I recall correctly, the hunting of the Petty Dwarves (which was horrific) stopped when the Sindar learned who they were after establishing contact with Nogrod and Belegost. He changed his attitude towards Men after Beren proved himself, and even before that, he sent aid to the Haladin during Bragollach. I'm not condoning that he didn't allow Men into the Girdle, but that was because he had troubling dreams about them and because Melian prophesized that one with greater power/doom than her would enter. And after Beren and Luthien, Men are allowed in. As for the Dwarves, I absolutely condemn how Thingol insults them and his death was stupid and entirely preventable. However, I think this was a Silmaril and dragon gold-influenced event since we are told that Thingol had a friendship with the Dwarves. They built Menegroth together (I think the exact quote is the "Dwarves labored gladly for him"); the Dwarves came and went freely and adopted the Cirth; they also made weapons for Thingol who paid them fairly with Falathrin pearls. I'm not absolving Thingol of blame (or the Dwarves either), but I don't think this particular scenario was indicative of his actual attitude towards them. If anything, it showed the dangerous power of the Silmaril and the corruption of the dragon gold; and through it, how deeply Morgoth's evil ran through Beleriand.

Ultimately, with all these points everyone has their own opinion/interpretation. I don't expect others to agree with me or like Thingol. I think the Quenya ban was understandable, others might find it unacceptable. We can have engaging and polite conversations about this stuff without changing each others' minds. Really the only thing I would be forceful about is treating fanon as canon. Other than that, you do you boo.

Also, I apologize if I didn't respond to any part of your ask; I'm at work and a bit distracted.

#thingol

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