this is somewhat of a vent post & something i said i would not do again but has been plaguing me enough that i think getting it out might feel better. so. has anydoggy else been. Baffled and upset by nora sakavic’s refusal to speak on how terribly aftg has treated its characters of color? with the author of the series coming back with a new book and starting up on her online activity again, and questions of what she’d change about aftg bubbling up, it’s particularly glaring to me that we are all playing this very long game of pretend where we ignore how badly the non-white cast has been treated & her lack of thoughts on it
and i understand not wanting to bring up nicky and thea because people pick on her for it. i’m not trying to discredit nora sakavic’s terrible history of getting harrassed online by aftg fans. but i think it is very cynical, and it is very juvenile, and most of all very cruel, that she gets to ignore the very real ways the books have set up these characters to be hated. i think it’s obvious why the characters who get the most hate are the only canonical characters of color, and i think we do not get to treat this like a deliberate decision on the fandom’s part when the books have put these same characters in degrading and embarrassing and terrible positions in the first place. aftg is not a story about nice characters with clean pasts, but there is a very specific nastiness to the only characters of color being a brown man who sexually harasses and later assaults the main character, a black woman whose only scene is her lashing out at her love interest after being ignored for the first two books, and the japanese villain who gets maybe two lines of complexity before he goes back to being a terrible person. the white cast, in comparison, while not at all free from flaws, are never shown to commit mindless evil; all of their actions are ultimately justified. the book goes out of its way to give them concession after concession. we know exactly who to side with, because aftg tells us who these people are. does nicky’s assault ever get addressed in the books? does riko’s reasoning to be the way that he is ever gets more than briefly aluded to? is thea reserved even a shred of humanity or grace in her one scene?
anyway. it’s been years of talking about this and the fandom has been constantly hostile to criticism in this regard, and more recently any criticism at all, and it’s Grating to be on the other side of this discussion. it’s exhausting to know that in ten years we do not get even an acknowledgment besides the author saying she will not answer questions about nicky and thea anymore. it’s upsetting and it’s ugly and i wish no one had to talk about this again, but we do because what i thought was common sense has been washed away by a sudden influx of no-nuance adoration for the trilogy. basically i hope we all explode
two hours later edit: you're allowed to reblog this! sorry about the confusion
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ngl i’m still worried. like i Do have complete faith in ncuti gatwa but what i Don’t have is much faith at all in rtd’s writing about race
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literally so funny to make this claim and then name an example of chibnall being insanely antisemitic and then say it doesn't count lmao. pay no attention to the massively antisemitic scene behind the curtain
like. sorry i don’t think chibnall was at all less sexist or racist than the other two. he was just better at dressing it up in faux progressive language
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Halsin desperately wanting children vs Minthara's cut pregnancy storyline face off in the square, but they violently start making out instead.
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I think there’s something to the fact that characters like Mickey milkovich are “goofy” racists, like he says buckwild shit but it’s in the form of comedy so people give it a pass, and characters like billy who are “violently” racist (which is still heavily debatable…but okay…) so it’s harder for most viewers to deal with and they can immediately stamp him with the “bad person” label and carry on
Which…says a lot about y’all….just saying.
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The temptation to vague about something in the milgram-confessions blog because its something thats bothered me for Actual Years about certain fandoms vs letting it go because when it is brought up its actually done somewhat tastefully and reasonably which makes me happy and this anon probably didnt mean it in the incredibly bad faith way I keep on seeing it be repeated so really Im getting upset over nothing.
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actually for a game with a plot revolving around "we're going to be gruesomely turned into mind controlling squidfolk if we dont find a cure" and aspects like "i got an engine forcibly put into my chest / my body was physically turned into that of a demon's against my will / my heart is an actual bomb and it will kill me as punishment / i was a slave who endured horrific physical abuse and my body was used for the benefit of the man who controls me" [actually all of these involve some manner of control and "discipline" now that i think abt it] there isnt NEARLY enough focus put on the actual concept of body horror and body autonomy its kind of like. just There. and it doesnt even all tie togther outside of like random convos between the characters and like i mean even thorm's whole fucking introduction involves the fact his body is unkillable like bg3 come ON man. you could be tying these themes togther so neatly so sweetly but [insert more rambling abt the issues with plot structure here]
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to be honest i think there is a very clear pathway to cheronica happening this season (cheryl’s “get out of my school” vibes, veronica introducing the concept of bisexuality to the group, hermione telling veronica “no boys” which EYE think would be very fun if veronica was like “okay fine then girls”) but i KNOW they’re not gonna take it
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you know it's really fucked up how in sports nowadays it's always all about "progress" and "revolutionizing" and shit but why don't we fucking start by eradicating racism from these sports run by white people
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white ladies from the American South who were raised by Black maids should be required to take a sensitivity training before they’re allowed to write a novel about it. (Stephen King doesn't fit this category but should also be required to take this training)
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i dont know how other ppl are such haters all the time i so much as consider dwelling on minor gripes with an experience and feel so exhausted i have to sleep for six days
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No but listen people might be like "who cares if the Amazon LOTR show is bad just don't watch it" but the thing is that, as a creator, it is my WORST NIGHTMARE for some big greedy megacorp to buy my stories and then make up their own barely lore-adjacent bullshit while also undoing critical aesthetic elements that make it it's own world. "Yeah so what if elves don't have long hair" okay but back when LOTR was written long hair and slenderness were NOT traditionally masculine and giving the powerful, sexy, wise elves these somewhat traditionally feminine traits was IMPORTANT. Replacing those aesthetics with buff, short-haired dudes from 2022 is reinforcing masculinity/femininity in a way that bothers me personally. In a similar vein, it's important for the dwarf women to have beards!! It's important!! And don't even get me started on the "waaah they cast people with different skin from me" shit because that isn't at all the same. Tolkien's world has a place in it for everyone. Just not shitty short-hair fuckboi Elon-Musk-in-highschool looking elves and beardless dwarves 😭 Anyway. That's my two cents I just had to get it out lol
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Not going to put this directly on the long discussion chain that prompted it because it's somewhat topic adjacent at best and I have no intention of derailing a discussion of fandom racism, but - while reading some of the "Izzy critical" responses that @bromelads got - I did see mention of one thing that I have both passionate feelings about and a near constant desire to elaborate some oft ignored context for. So.
One of the things mentioned as a source of discomfort in fandom for "Izzy critical" poc was posts rejecting that Edward was growing or healing in 1x09 and 1x10, suggesting that it mostly serves to empathize with Izzy over Ed and to make Izzy's actions look better at the expense of Ed's character / softness. The same person who gave this example later agreed that there's some truth in the idea that Izzy crits' misinterpretation of Izzy fan meta has something to do with the (very baffling) perception that we all don't like Ed or think he's the simplified villain of Izzy's story or something, which I just want to a) appreciate for a second because I do actually adore Edward so much, and b) mention specifically because I think the whole Ed healing debate is a great example of that.
I'm not going to argue why I am staunchly in the "Ed wasn't healing" / "Kraken was inevitable" camp because I've done it before, but I do want to point out some related thoughts around that argument that I've picked up on each time it loops back around.
I feel like a lot of the people who strongly disagree with or get mad about that take frame it as though we are minimizing or rejecting the existence of Edward's softness entirely. It's like... Ok, so there is a distinct sequence of moments where Edward is displaying emotional vulnerability or a draw toward fine things that fans noticed, and then they interpreted the pink robe Ed's "healing" as all that starting to pay off in his character development (before being interrupted by an external obstacle: Izzy). A very straightforward A -> B. Only when I push back against B and say "hold on I don't see any healing in 1x10," then I feel like people hear me rejecting that all the moments of A meant anything at all. If I see the shadow of the Kraken as an internally motivated obstacle being built in earlier episodes, then I must think that's the dark and violent payoff, and the evidence of softness was a diversion or manipulation or just not going anywhere significant in character terms.
Which is very frustrating to me because Edward is a romcom protagonist.
Yes, this is very obvious to everyone. But it matters in this debate because protagonist status comes with very significant guarantees - namely, Edward is going to grow / heal / get his happy ending, etc. We've even got Stede's S1 arc (which remember is still unfinished too) as a good example of structure and focus on internalized character flaws framed by plot hurdles. There is no version of this story arc where Edward ends as the Kraken, and I have never seen anybody suggest he's not currently on a character arc toward growth and healing and a circle of true companions in Stede's crew who love him for who he is.
So when I or anyone else says he's not there yet, it's almost exclusively because we are arguing about where he is on this character arc in 1x10. Of course the appreciation for fancy clothes and slow mornings with overly sugared tea is going to pay off! Of course he's going to become friends with the crew (I'm rooting for Frenchie S2 bonding)! Of course he's going to get to beat back that self loathing he's carried since his dad! But people get defensive and angry like you are personally targeting them and declaring their blorbo an irredeemable asshole because you suggest character development major enough to drive a character driven show probably takes more than a few weeks of easygoing vacation to reach final form. That's not what I'm saying at all!
Interpretations upsetting or offending people even when written with a complete lack of malice is nothing new, but it really seems like making up a whole army of guys to get mad at for takes is happening more and more. (And I'll admit I'm probably getting more and more guilty of this myself as my understanding of what exactly people are arguing in different fandom city states gets more and more fractured. Meta builds off of meta, and if you randomly see one post by one blog you already disagree with, you might be missing a lot of context to clarify what they actually mean vs "of course that's the awful take you would have".)
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Idk if yall are still active but I just eagerly quit this show around early season two. I was kinda hate watching the whole way, but I started googling spoilers when I saw how fucked they were being to Lincoln and Raven (and more, but they’re my faves). Do you have any show recs that are similar with the shows “building a new civilization after tragedy” (minus the colonization and racism etc)
hey!
i actually binged the entire show recently and i can confidently say it was not as groundbreaking or cool as the showrunner believed. the first 2 seasons were incredible but it just devolved into a mess and the ending was so dark and horrifying. also the fandom was completely unhinged and did not need to act the way they did 😭
onto your question: yes!!!! battlestar galactica is what inspired me to watch the 100 in the first place. it very much shares the themes of mass tragedy, civilizational warfare, living in space, seeking a new home, and humanity fighting for survival without losing its soul. start with the 2003 miniseries (a three hour pilot) tho or it might be confusing. it also has diversity without the weird racist tones of the 100's diversity, although the cast is a lot whiter. the 100 has also obviously borrowed a lot of concepts and terms from it but i don't want to spoil you. all in all, it is one of the best shows i have ever watched and it delivers until its very last second.
lost in space is also quite cool. and i have heard good things about the expanse! another show that shares some themes (without the space element) is the society - very fascinating
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Kali didn't die, she left the hotel with Sam and Dean while Gabriel was with Lucifer.
okay i had to look that one up because i watched this episode like 7 years ago and didn't remember the details but that's still not the point of the post though.
I'm assuming they picked her as a representative deity because of how widely she's worshipped — a lot of non-savarna religions/cultures/faith-systems have some iteration of kali in their pantheon as far as I'm aware.
then they made her say that dialogue, the one about how the angels want to destroy a world that doesn't belong to them because they just think they're superior than the rest who were there before them. but then that was it. no followup on that whole thing.
my problems isn't with them killing her, as much as it is with the way they chose to present this mythological figure who, in some way, brings these often overwhelming and at-odds diverse cultures of this country (and a lot of other south asian countries too tbh) together, and did not. like. think beyond having her exist as a two dimensional caricature throwing buzzwords around. also. because she was a woman, she was sexualized (this show has famously kept a lot of the physical intimacy off-screen and yet! AND YET!). her role could've been very interesting in the rest of the season but like. that doesn't happen. and she is saved by the white men, even in the scenario where she's not dead. like!!!
my frustration with this whole thing is that they want props for including someone brown-skinned in their story but they will not put an ounce of work of effort into making it actually mean something. it's hard to even express how annoying it gets after a point. like if you're white, you won't get it. you can try but you won't. and I'm not going to try to explain it all to you.
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The reactions to Shandy and Michael are so clearly tied to the attitude towards Nate, too.
i love the spilling of straight facts on a wednesday morning.
would also like to point out that rebecca welton spent an entire season trying to sink multiple people's careers, mental health, intimate personal relationships, etc., as a gotcha moment against rupert, and has neither made amends nor tried to become a better person from that, and she gets uwu girlbossy points every time she breathes
but sure, shandy (who literally just suggested mimosas at work in the same episode that keeley suggested doing drugs with her colleagues) and michael (who is literally just existing as a good boyfriend to colin) are somehow the sus ones.
like roy gets to throw food around in a restaurant for funsies, but colin and michael making out in an alleyway makes michael a bad guy. the fandom will see a character of color who did like one bad thing and then be suspicious of every other character of color coming in from then on out, but white characters get to do whatever they want and it gets played for laughs.
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