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What’s so Funny About Vengeance, the Night, and Batman? – Two Superhero Parodies in Conversation

Back in 2016, the first trailers for Director Chris McKay’s The Lego Batman Movie hit. A spinoff of the take on the iconic hero, voiced by Will Arnett, from 2014’s The Lego Movie. Those trailers spelled out a plot covering how Batman’s life of crimefighting is turned upside down when Robin unexpectedly enters the picture. It was a funny trailer, promising another insightful comedy from the crew behind The Lego Movie. A promise it handily delivered on when it came out in February 2017 with an animated feature steeped wall-to-wall jokes for the sake of mocking Bruce Wayne’s angst filled crusade that can only come from understanding what’s made the character withstand the test of time.

But there was a thought I and others had from seeing that trailer up to watching the actual movie:

“This seems… familiar.”

Holy Musical B@man! is a 2012 fan-made stage production parody of DC Comics’ biggest cash cow. It was produced as the fifth musical from YouTube-based cult phenomenon Starkid Productions, from a book by Matt and Nick Lang, music by Nick Gage and Scott Lamp with lyrics by Gage. The story of the musical details how Robin’s unexpected entrance ends up turning Batman’s (Joe Walker) life of crimefighting upside down. Among Starkids’ fandom derived projects in their early existence, as they’ve mainly moved on to well-received original material in recent years, Holy Musical B@man! is my personal favorite. I go back to it frequently, appreciating it as a fan of both superheroes and musicals. (Especially since good material that touches on both of those isn’t exactly easy to come by. Right, Spider-Man?)

While I glibly summarized the similarities between them by oversimplifying their plots, there’s a lot in the details, both major and minor, that separates how they explore themes like solitude, friendship, love, and what superhero stories mean. It’s something I’ve wanted to dig into for a while and I found a lot in both of them I hadn’t considered before by putting them in conversation. I definitely recommend watching both of them, because of how in-depth this piece goes including discussing their endings. However, nothing I can say will replace the experience of watching them and if I had included everything I could’ve commented on in both of them, this already massive piece would easily be twice as long minimum.

Up front, I want to say this isn’t about comparing The Lego Batman Movie and Holy Musical B@man in terms of quality. Not only are they shaped for vastly different mediums with different needs/expectations, animation versus stagecraft, but they also had different resources at their disposal. Even if both are in some ways riffing on the aesthetic of the 1990s Batman movies and the Adam West TV show, Lego Batman does it with the ability to make gorgeously animated frames packed to the brim with detail while Holy Musical often leans into its low-fi aesthetic of characters miming props and sets to add extra humor. They’re also for different audiences, Lego Batman clearly for all-ages while Holy Musical has the characters cursing for emphasis on a regular basis. On top of those factors, after picking through each of these for everything worth commenting on that I could find, I can’t say which I wholly prefer thanks in part to these fundamental differences.

This piece is more about digging through the details to explore the commonalities, differences, and what makes them effective mocking love letters to one of the biggest superheroes in existence.

(Also, since I’m going to be using the word “Batman” a lot, I’ll be calling Lego Batman just “Batman” and referring to the version from Holy Musical as “B@man”, with the exception of quoted dialogue.)

[Full Piece Under the Cut]

Setting the Tone

The beginning is, in fact, a very good place to start when discussing how these parodies frame their versions of the caped crusader. Each one uses a song about lavishing their respective Batmen with praise about how they are the best superheroes ever and play over sequences of the title hero kicking wholesale ass. A key distinction comes in who’s singing each song. Holy Musical B@man’s self-titled opening number is sung from the perspective of an omniscient narrator recounting B@man’s origin and later a chorus made up of the Gotham citizenry. Meanwhile, “Who’s the (Bat) Man” from Lego Batman is a brag-tacular song written by Batman about himself, even playing diegetically for all his villains to hear as he beats them up.

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Holy Musical opens on a quick recap of Batman’s origin:

“One shot, Two shots in the night and they’re gone And he’s all left alone He’s just one boy Two dead at his feet and their blood stains the street And there’s nothing, no there’s nothing he can do!”

We then get a Bat-dance break as the music goes from slow and moody to energetic to reflect Batman turning that tragedy into the driving force behind his one-man war on crime. Assured by the narrator that he’s “the baddest man that there’s ever been!” and “Now there’s nothing, no there’s nothing he can’t do!” flipping the last lyric of the first verse. For the rest of the opening scene the lyrics matter less than what’s happening to establish both this fan-parody’s version of Batman and how the people of Gotham (“he’ll never refuse ‘em”) view him.

Lego Batman skips the origin recap, and in general talks around the death of the Waynes to keep the light tone going since it’s still a kids movie about a popular toy even if there are deeper themes at play. Instead, it continues a trend The Lego Movie began for this version of the character writing music about how he’s an edgy, dark, awesome, cool guy. While that movie kept it to Batman angry-whiteboy-rapping about “Darkness! NO PARENTS!”, this one expands to more elaborate boasts in the song “Who’s the (Bat) Man” by Patrick Stump:

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“In the darkest night I make the bad guys fall There’s a million heroes But I’m the best of them all!”

Batman singing this song about himself, as opposed to having it sung by others aims the crosshairs of parody squarely on the hero’s ego. His abilities make fighting his villains effortless, like this opening battle is more an opportunity to perform the song than a life-or-death struggle. Even Joker’s aware of that as he shouts, “Stop him before he starts singing!” This Batman doesn’t see himself as missing out on anything in life, even if he still feels that deep down. Being Batman is the coolest thing in the world that anyone would envy. He’s Batman, therefore everyone should envy him.

The songs aren’t only part of the equation for how these two works’ opening scenes establish their leading hero. While both songs are about Batman being cool, they’re separated by the accompanying scenes. Lego Batman keep the opening within the Joker’s perspective until Batman shows up and the action kicks in. Once it does, we’re shown a Batman at the top of his solo-hero game. Meanwhile, Holy Musical’s opening is about B@man building his reputation and by the end of the song he has all the citizens of Gotham singing his praises with the titular lyrics. Both are about being in awe of the title hero, one framed by Joker’s frustration at Batman’s ease in foiling his schemes yet again and the other about the people of Gotham growing to love their city’s hero (probably against their better judgement.)

That’s woven into the fabric of what kind of schemes Batman is foiling in each of these. Joker’s plan to bomb Gotham with the help of every supervillain in Batman’s Rogues Gallery is hilariously high stakes and the type of plan most Batman stories, even parodies, would save for the climax. Neatly exemplified by how that’s almost the exact structure of Holy Musical’s final showdown. Starting with these stakes works as an extension of this Batman’s nature as a living children’s toy and therefore the embodiment of a child’s idea of what makes Batman cool, his ability to wipe the floor with anyone that gets in his way “because he’s Batman.” It also emphasizes Joker as the only member of the Rogues Gallery that matters to Lego Batman’s story, every other Bat-villain is either a purely visual cameo or only gets a couple lines maximum.

The crime’s being stopped by B@man are more in the “Year One” gangster/organized crime category rather than anything spectacle heavy. Though said crimes are comically exaggerated:

Gangster 1: Take these here drugs, put ‘em into them there guns, and then hand ‘em out to those gamblin’ prostitutes! Gangster 2: Should we really be doing these illegal activities? In a children’s hospital for orphans?

These fit into that model of crime the Dark Knight fights in his early days and add tiny humanizing moments between the crooks (“Oh, Matches! You make me laugh like nobody else!”) in turn making the arrival of B@man and the violence he deals out a stronger punchline. Further emphasized by the hero calling out the exact physical damage he does with each hit before warning them to never do crime again saying, “Support your families like the rest of us! Be born billionaires!” Later in the song his techniques get more extreme and violence more indiscriminate, as he uses his Bat-plane to patrol and gun down whoever he sees as a criminal, including a storeowner accidentally taking a single dollar from his own register. (“God’s not up here! Only Batman!”)

A commonality between these two openings is how Commissioner Jim Gordon gets portrayed. Both are hapless goofs at their core, playing more on the portrayal of the character in the 60s TV show and 90s Burton/Schumacher movies than the serious-minded character present in comics, Nolan’s Dark Knight Trilogy, and other adaptations. Lauren Lopez’s portrayal in Holy Musical gets overwhelmed by everything thrown at him, eventually giving up and getting out of B@man’s way (“I’m not gonna tell Batman what to do! He’s Batman!”) Hector Elizondo’s Gordon in Lego Batman clearly reached the “stay out of Batman’s way” point a long time ago, happy to have “the guy who flips on the Bat-signal” be his sole defining trait. While the characterizations are close, their roles do end up differing. Lopez’s Gordon sticks around to have a few more comedic scenes as the play goes on, where Elizondo’s exist to set up a contrast with his daughter Barbara and her way of approaching Batman when she becomes Police Commissioner.

These opening sequences both end in similar manners as well; the citizens of Gotham lavishing praise on their respective Batmen and a confrontation between Batman and the Joker. Praise from the citizenry in Holy Musical comes on the heels of a letter from B@man read out on the news about how much they and the city of Gotham suck. They praise B@man for his angsty nature as a “dark hero” and how they “wouldn’t want him any other way!”, establishing the motif of Gotham’s citizens in Holy Musical as stand-ins for the Batman fandom. Lego Batman uses the praise of the Gotham citizens after Batman’s victory in the opening scene as a lead in to contrast their certainty that Batman must have an exciting private life with the reality we’re shown. Which makes sense since Lego-Batman’s relationship to the people of Gotham is never presented as something at stake.

Greater contrast comes in how the confrontations with the Joker are handled, Lego Batman has an argument between the hero and villain that’s intentionally coded as relationship drama, Batman saying “There is no ‘us’” when Joker declares himself Batman’s greatest enemy. The confrontation in Holy Musical gets purposefully underplayed as an offstage encounter narrated to the audience as a Vicki Vale news report. This takes Joker off the board for the rest of the play in contrast to the Batman/Joker relationship drama that forms one of Lego Batman’s key pillars. While they take different forms, the respective citizenry praise and villain confrontation parts of these openings lead directly into the number one common thematic element between these Bat-parodies: Batman’s loneliness.

One is the Darkest, Saddest, Loneliest Number

Batman as an isolated hero forms one of the core tenants of the most popular understanding of the character. Each of these parodies picks at that beyond the broody posturing. There’s no dedicated segment in this piece about how these works’ versions of the title character function bleeds into every other aspect of them, but each starts from the idea of Batman as a man-child with trouble communicating his emotions. Time’s taken to give the audience a view of where their attitudes have left them early in the story.

Both heroes show their loneliness through interactions with their respective Alfreds. Holy Musical has the stalwart butler, played by Chris Allen, try to comfort B@man by asking if he has any friends he enjoys being around. When B@man cites Lucius Fox as a friend he calls him right away, only to discover Lucius Fox is Alfred’s true identity and Alfred Pennyworth was an elaborate ruse he came up with to protect Bruce on his father’s wishes. Ironically, finding out his closest friend was living a double life causes Bruce to push Alfred away (the play keeps referring to him as Alfred after this, so that’s what I’m going to do as well.) After he’s fired he immediately comes back in a new disguise as “O’Malley the Irish Butler” (same outfit he wore before but with a Party City Leprechaun hat.) That’s unfortunately the start of a running gag in Holy Musical that ends up at the worst joke in the play, when Alfred disguises himself as “Quon Li the Chinese Butler” doing an incredibly cringeworthy “substituting L’s for R’s” bit with his voice. It’s been my least favorite bit in the play since I first saw it in 2012 and legitimately makes me hesitate at times to recommend it. Even if it’s relatively small bit and the rest holds ups.

That disclaimer out of the way, that conversation between B@man and Alfred leads into the title hero reflecting on his sadness through the musical’s I Want Song, “Dark, Sad, Lonely Knight.” The song’s split into two halves, the first Alfred reflecting on whether he played a part in Bruce’s current condition and the second B@man longing for a connection. The song does a good job balancing between the sincerity over the hero’s sadness and getting good laughs out of it:

“Think of the children Next time you gun down the mama and papa Their only mama and papa Because they probably don’t have another mama and papa!”

The “I Want” portion of the song coming in the end with the repetition of the lryics “I want to be somebody’s buddy.”

Rather than another song number, Lego Batman covers Batman’s sadness through a pair of montages and visual humor. The first comes after the opening battle, where we see Batman taking off all his costume except for the mask hanging out alone in Wayne Manor, showing how little separation he puts between identities. Compared to Holy Musical where the equivalent scene is the first we see of Bruce without the mask on, which may come down to practicality since anyone who’s worn a mask like that knows they get hot and sweaty fast. Batman is constantly made to appear small among the giant empty rooms of his estate as he eats dinner, jams on his guitar, and watches romantic movies alone.

Ralph Fienne’s Alfred coming in at the end of this sequence witnessing Batman looking at a photo of himself as a boy with his parents for the last time. Alfred outlines Batman’s fear of being part of a family again only to be met with Batman denying he has any feelings ever. Pennyworth’s role as a surrogate father gets put into greater focus here than in Holy Musical, as we get glimpses of Alfred reading a book titled “How to Deal with Your Out-of-Control Child.” Also shown in smaller scenes of Alfred dealing with Batman’s insistent terminology for his crime fighting equipment, like calling his cowl an “armored face disguise.”

Batman’s denial of his pain contrasts how B@man wallows in it. Though he’s forced to confront it a little as the Joker’s plan ends up leaving him with no crimefighting to fall back on to ignore his issues. This montage gets set to the song “One” by Harry Nilsson and details Batman, unable to express his true feelings, eventually letting them out in the form of tempter tantrums. There’s also some humor through juxtaposition as Batman walks solemnly through the streets of Gotham City, rendered black and white, as the citizens chant “No more crime!” in celebration, while flipping over cars and firing guns into the air.

A disruption to their loneliness eventually comes in the form of a sensational character find.

Robin – The Son/BFF Wonder

Between both Bat-parodies, the two Robins’ characterizations are as close as anyone’s between them. Each is nominally Dick Grayson but are ultimately more representative of the idea of Robin as the original superhero sidekick and his influence on Batman’s life. The play and movie also both make the obvious jokes about Dick’s name and the classic Robin costume’s lack of pants at different points. Dick’s origin also gets sidestepped in each version to skip ahead to the part where he starts being an influence in Batman’s life.

Robin’s introduction to the comics in Detective Comics #38 in 1940, marking the start of Batman’s literal “Year Two” as a character, predating the introduction of Joker, Catwoman, and Alfred, among others. Making him Batman’s longest lasting ally in the character’s history. His presence and acrobatics shift the tone by adding a dash of swashbuckling to Batman’s adventures, inspired by the character’s namesake Robin Hood, though both parodies take a page out of Batman Forever and associate the name with the bird for the sake of a joke. Robin is as core to Batman as his origin, but more self-serious adaptations (i.e., the mainstream cinematic ones that were happening around the times both Holy Musical and Lego Batman came out) tend to avoid the character’s inclusion. These two works being parody, therefore anything but self-serious, give themselves permission to examine why Robin matters and how different characters react to his presence. Rejection of Robin as a character and concept comes out in some form in each of these works, from Batman himself in Lego Batman and the Gotham citizens in Holy Musical.

The chain of events that lead to Dick becoming Robin in Lego Batman are a string of consequences for Batman’s self-absorption. A scene of Bruce barely listening as Dick asks for advice on getting adopted escalating to absentmindedly signing the adoption paperwork. Batman doesn’t realize he has a son until after his sadness montage. Alfred forces Batman to start interacting with Dick against his will. The broody loner wanting nothing to do with the cheery kid, played to “golly gee gosh” perfection by Michael Cera, until he sees the utility of him. Batman doesn’t even have the idea to give Robin a costume or codename because he clearly views the sidekick’s presence as a temporary measure for breaking into Superman’s fortress, made clear by how he lists “expendable” as a quality Dick needs if he wants to go on a mission.

This makes Robin the catalyst for Batman’s shifting perspective throughout Lego Batman. When Robin succeeds in his first mission, the Dark Knight is hesitant to truly compliment him and chalks up his ward’s feats to “unbelievable obeying.” Other moments have Robin’s presence poke holes in Batman’s tough guy demeanor, like the first time Batman and Robin ride in the Bat-mobile together, Robin asks where the seatbelts are and Batman growls “Life doesn’t give you seatbelts!”, only for Batman to make a sudden stop causing Robin to hit his head on the windshield and Batman genuinely apologizes. They share more genuine moments together as the film goes, like Batman suggesting they beatbox together to keeps their spirits up after they’ve been imprisoned for breaking into Arkham Asylum. Robin’s representative of Batman gradually letting people in throughout these moments.

On the exact opposite end of the spectrum, B@man needs zero extra prompting to let Robin into his life. Nick Lang’s Robin (henceforth called “Rob!n” to keep with this arbitrary naming scheme I’ve concocted) does get brought into his life by Alfred thanks to a personal ad (“‘Dog for sale’? No… ‘Orphan for sale’! Even better!”) but it’s a short path to B@man deciding to let Dick fight alongside him. The briefest hesitance on the hero’s part, “To be Batman… is to be alone”, is quelled by Rob!n saying “We could be alone… together.” Their first scene together quickly establishing the absurd sincerity exemplified by this incarnation of the Dynamic Duo. An energy carried directly into the Act 1 closing number, “The Dynamic Duet”, a joyful ode between the heroes about how they’re “Long lost brothers who found each other” sung as they beat up supervillains (and the occasional random civilian.)

That song also ties into the contrast between the Batman/Robin dynamic and the B@man/Rob!n one. While Holy Musical is portraying a brotherly/BFF bond between the two heroes, Lego Batman leans into the surrogate son angle. While both are mainly about their stories’ Batman being able to connect with others, the son angle of Lego Batman adds an additional layer of “Batman needs to take responsibility for himself and others” and a parallel to Alfred as Batman’s own surrogate father. It also adds to the queer-coding of Batman in Lego Batman as Batman’s excuse to Robin for why he can go on missions is that Bruce and he are sharing custody, Robin even calling Batman’s dual identities “dads” before he knows the truth.

In the absence of the accepting personal responsibility through fatherhood element, the conflict Rob!n brings out in Holy Musical forms between B@man and the citizens of Gotham. “Citizens as stand-ins for fandom” is at it’s clearest here as the Act 2 opener is called “Robin Sucks!” featuring the citizens singing about how… well, you read the title. Their objections to Rob!n’s existence has nothing to do with what the young hero has done or failed to do, but come from arguments purely about the aesthetic of Rob!n fighting alongside B@man. Most blatantly shown by one of the citizens wearing a Heath Ledger Joker t-shirt saying Rob!n’s presence “ruins the gritty realism of a man who fights crime dressed as a bat.” It works as the Act 2 opener by establishing that B@man and the citizens conflicting opinions on his sidekick end up driving that half of the story, exemplified in B@man’s complete confusion about why people hate Rob!n (“Robin ruined Batman? But that’s not true… Robin make Batman happy.”)

Both Robins play into the internal conflict their respective mentors are going through, but what would a superhero story, even a parody, be without some colorful characters to provide that sweet external conflict.

Going Rogue

Both works have the threat comes from an army of villains assembled under a ringleader, Zach Galifianakis’s Joker in Lego Batman and Jeff Blim as Sweet Tooth in Holy Musical. Both lead the full ensemble of Batman’s classic (and not so classic) Rogues at different points. As mentioned before Joker starts Lego Batman with “assemble the Rogues, blow up Gotham” as his plan, while Sweet Tooth with his candy prop comedy becoming the ringleader of Gotham’s villains is a key turning point in Act 1 of the play. Part of this comes down to how their connections to their respective heroes and environments are framed, Sweet Tooth as a new player on the scene and Joker as Batman’s romantic foil.

Lego Batman demonstrates Batman and Joker are on “finishing each other’s sentences” levels of intimate that Batman refuses to acknowledge. Shown best in how Joker’s plan only works because he can predict exactly how Batman will act once he starts playing hard to get. When he surrenders the entire Rogues Gallery (without telling them) and himself to police custody, he describes it as him being “off the market.” He knows Batman won’t settle for things ending on these terms and tricks the hero into stealing Superman’s Phantom Zone projector so he can recruit a new, better team of villains for a take two of his masterplan from the start. Going through all this trouble to get Batman to say those three magic words; “I love hate you.” Joker as the significant other wanting his partner to finally reciprocate his feelings and commit works both as a play on how the Batman/Joker relationship often gets approached and an extension of the central theme. Batman is so closed off to interpersonal connections he can’t even properly hate his villains.

Sweet Tooth, while clearly being a riff Heath Ledger and Caesar Romero’s Jokers fused with a dash of Willy Wonka, doesn’t have that kind of connection with B@man. Though there are hints that B@man and his recently deceased Joker may have had one on that level. He laments “[Joker]’s in heaven with mom and dad. Making them laugh, I know it!” when recalling how the Clown Prince of Crime was the one person he enjoyed being around. This makes Joker’s death one of the key triggers to B@man reflecting on his solitude at the start of the play.

What Sweet Tooth provides the story is a threat to B@man’s new bond with Rob!n. Disrupting that connection forms the delicious center of the Candy King of Crime’s plan in Act 2. He holds Rob!n and Gotham’s people hostage and asks the citizens to decide via Facebook poll if the sidekick lives or dies (in reference to the infamous phone hotline vote from the comic book story A Death in the Family where readers could decide the Jason Todd Robin’s fate.)

With the rest of the villains under the leadership of the respective works’ main antagonists, there’s commentary on their perceived quality as threats. When Holy Musical has Superman talking to Green Lantern about how much B@man’s popularity frustrates him, he comes down especially hard on the Caped Crusader’s villains. Talking about how they all coast by on simple gimmicks with especially harsh attention given to Two Face’s being “the number two.” Saying they’re only famous because B@man screws up and they get to do more damage. Which he compares to his own relationship with his villains:

Superman: You ever heard of Mr. Mxyzptlk? Green Lantern: No. Superman: No, that’s right! That’s because I do my job!

Lego Batman has commentary on the other villains come from Joker, recognizing that even all together they can never beat Batman, because that’s how a Batman story goes. The other villains get portrayed as generally buffoonish, struggling to even build a couch together and described by Joker as “losers dressed in cosplay.” Tricking Batman into sending him to the Phantom Zone provides him the opportunity to gather villains from outside Batman’s mythos and outside DC Comics in general. Recruiting the likes of Sauron, King Kong, Daleks, Agent Smith from The Matrix, and the Wicked Witch of the West, among others. When I first saw and reviewed The Lego Batman Movie, this bugged me because it felt like a missed opportunity to feature lesser-known villains from other DC heroes’ Rogues Galleries. Now, considering the whole movie as meta-commentary on the status of this Batman as a children’s toy, it makes perfect sense that Joker would need to go outside of comics to break the rules of a typical Batman story and have a shot at winning.

The Rogues of Holy Musical get slightly more of a chance to shine, if only because their song “Rogues are We” is one of the catchier tracks from the play. They’re all still more cameo than character when all’s said and done, but Sweet Tooth entering the picture is about him recognizing their potential to operate as a unit, takeover Gotham, and kill B@man. The candy-pun flinging villain wants all of them together, no matter their perceived quality.

Sweet Tooth: “We need every villain in Gotham. Cool themes, lame themes, themes that don’t match their powers, even the villains that take their names from public domain stories.” (Two Face’s “broke ass” still being the exception.)

Both Joker and Sweet Tooth provide extensions of the shared theme of Batman dealing with the new connections in his life, especially with regards to Robin. However, Robin isn’t the only other ally (or potential ally) these Dark Knights have on their side.

Super Friends(?)

The internal crisis of these Caped Crusaders come as much from how they react to other heroic figures as it does from supervillainous machinations. In both cases how Batman views and is viewed by fellow heroes gets centered on a specific figure, Superman in Holy Musical and Commissioner Barbara Gordon (later Batgirl) in Lego Batman. Each serves a vastly different purpose in the larger picture of their stories and relationship to their respective Batmen. Superman reflecting B@man’s loneliness and Barbara symbolizing a new path forward for Batman’s hero work.

Superman’s role in Holy Musical runs more parallel to Lego Batman’s Joker than Barbara. Brian Holden’s performance as the Man of Tomorrow plays into a projected confidence covering anxiety that nobody likes him. Besting the Bat-plane in a race during B@man’s Key to the City ceremony establishes a one upmanship between the two heroes, like Joker’s description of his relationship with Batman at the end of Lego Batman’s opening battle. Though instead of that romantically coded relationship from Lego Batman, this relationship is more connected to childish jealousy. (But if you do want to read the former into Holy Musical B@man, neither hero has an onstage relationship with any woman and part of their eventual fight consist of spanking each other.)

B@man and Superman’s first real interaction is arguing over who’s the cooler hero until it degrades into yelling “Fuck you!” at each other. B@man storming off in the aftermath of that gets topped off by Superman suggesting he should get the Key to the City instead, citing his strength and longer tenure as a hero (“The first hero, by the way”) as justifications. This only results in the Gotham citizens turning on him for suggesting their city’s hero is anything less than the best, which serves both as a Sam Raimi Spider-Man reference (“You mess with one of us! You mess with all of us!”) and another example of the citizens as stand-ins for fandom. Superman’s veil of cocksureness comes off quickly after that and stays off for the rest of the play. Starting with his conversation with Green Lantern where a civilian comes across them, but barely acts like Superman’s there.

One of the play’s running gags is Superman calling B@man’s number and leaving messages, showing a desperation to reach out and connect with his fellow hero despite initial smugness. Even before the first phone call scene, we see Superman joining B@man to sing “I want to be somebody’s buddy” during “Dark, Sad, Lonely Knight” hinting at what’s to come. The note it consistently comes back to is that Superman’s jealousy stems from Batman’s popularity over him. This is a complete flip of what Lego Batman does with the glimpse at a Batman/Superman dynamic we see when Batman goes to the Superman’s fortress to steal the Phantom Zone projector. The rivalry dynamic there exists solely in Batman’s head, Lego-Superman quickly saying “I would crush you” when Batman suggests the idea of them fighting. Superman’s status among the other DC heroes is also night and day between these works. Where Lego-Superman’s only scene in the movie shows him hosting the Justice League Anniversary Party and explaining he “forgot” to invite Batman, Superman in Holy Musical consistently lies about having friends over (“All night long I’m busy partying with my friends at the Fortress… of Solitude.”)

Superman’s relationship to B@man in Holy Musical develops into larger antagonism thanks to lack of communication with B@man brushing off Supes’ invitations to hang out and fight bad guys (“Where were you for the Solomon Grundy thing? Ended up smaller than I thought, just a couple of cool guys. Me and… Solomon Grundy.”) His own loneliness gets put into stronger focus when he sees the news of Rob!n’s debut as a crimefighter, which makes him reflect on how he misses having Krypto the Super-Dog around. (The explanation for why he doesn’t have his dog anymore is one of my favorite jokes in the play and I won’t ruin it here.)

Where Superman’s a reflection of B@man’s loneliness, Rosario Dawson as Barbara in Lego Batman is a confrontation of Batman’s go it alone attitude. Her job in the story is to be the one poking holes in the foundation of Batman as an idea, starting with her speech at Jim Gordon’s retirement banquet and her instatement as commissioner. She has a by-the-book outlook on crimefighting with the omnicompetence to back it up, thanks to her training at “Harvard for Police.” Babs sees Batman’s current way of operating as ineffectual and wants him to be an official agent of the law. An idea that dumps a bucket of cold water on Batman’s crush he developed immediately upon seeing her, though that never fully goes away.

Her main point is that Batman “karate chopping poor people” hasn’t made Gotham better in his 80 years of operating. A contrast to Holy Musical’s Jim Gordon announcing that B@man has brought Gotham’s crime rates to an all-time low (“Still the highest in the world, but we’re working on it.”) She wants to see a Batman willing to work with other people. A hope dashed constantly dealing with his childish stubbornness as he tries to foil Joker’s schemes on his own, culminating in her arresting Batman and Robin for breaking into Arkham to send Joker to the Phantom Zone.

Barbara’s role as the one bringing grown-up attitudes and reality into Batman’s world does leave her in the role of comedic straight woman. Humor in her scenes comes from how she reacts to everyone else’s absurdity rather than anything she does to be funny. This works for the role she plays in Lego Batman, since she’s not there to have an arc the way Superman does in Holy Musical. She’s another catalyst for Batman’s to start letting people in as another character he grows to care about. Which starts after she lets the Dynamic Duo out of prison to fight Joker’s new army of Phantom Zone villains on the condition that he plays it by her rules. Leading to a stronger bond between Batman, Robin, Alfred, and her as they start working together.

The two Batmen’s relationships to other heroes, their villains, Robin, and their own solitude each culminate in their own way as their stories reach their conclusions.

Dark Knights & Dawning Realizations

As everything comes down to the final showdowns in these Bat-parodies, the two Caped Crusaders each confront their failures to be there for others and allow themselves to be vulnerable to someone they’ve been antagonizing throughout the story. Each climax has all of Gotham threatened by a bomb and the main villains’ plans coming to fruition only to come undone.

Holy Musical has Sweet Tooth’s kidnapping of Rob!n and forcing Gotham to choose themselves or the sidekick they hate sends B@man into his most exaggerated state in the entire play. It’s the classic superhero movie climax conundrum, duty as a hero versus personal attachment. Alfred, having revealed himself as the “other butlers”, even lampshades how these stories usually go only for that possibility to get shot down by Bruce:

Alfred: A true hero, Master Wayne, finds a way to choose both. B@man: You’re right, Alfred. I know what I have to do… Fuck Gotham, I’m saving Robin!

B@man’s selfishness effectively makes him the real villain of Holy Musical’s second act. Lego Batman has shades of that aspect as well, where Batman gets sent to the Phantom Zone by Joker for his repeated refusal to acknowledge their relationship. Where the AI running the interdimensional prison, Phyllis voiced by Ellie Kemper, confronts him with the way he’s treated Robin, Alfred, Barbara, and even Joker:

Phyllis: You’re not a traditional bad guy, but you’re not exactly a good guy either. You even abandoned your friends. Batman: No! I was trying to protect them! Phyllis: By pushing them away? Batman: Well… yeah. Phyllis: Are they really the ones you’re protecting?

Batman watches what’s happening back in Gotham and sees Robin emulate his grim and gritty tendencies to save the day in his absence makes him desperately scream, “Don’t do what I would do!” It’s the universe rubbing what a jerk he’s been in his face. He’s forced to take a look at himself and make a change. B@man’s not made to do that kind of self-reflection until after he’s defeated Sweet Tooth but failed to stop the villain’s bomb. He’s ready to give up on Gotham forever and leave with Rob!n, until his sidekick pulls up Sweet Tooth’s poll and it shows the unanimous result in favor of saving the Boy Wonder. Despite everything they said at the start of Act 2, the people want to help their hero in return for all the times he helped them. All of them calling back to the Raimi Spider-Man reference from Act 1, “You mess with one of us. You mess with all of us.”

Both heroes’ chance at redemption and self-improvement comes from opening themselves up to the people they pushed out and dismissed earlier in their stories. Batman takes on the role he reduced the Commissioner down to at the beginning of the movie and flips on signals for Barbara, Alfred, and Robin to show how he’s truly prepared to work as a team, not just with his friends and family but with the villains of Gotham the Joker pushed aside as well. Teamwork makes the dream work and they’re all able to work together to get Joker’s army back into the Phantom Zone but like in Holy Musical they fail to stop the bomb threatening Gotham. Which he can only prevent from destroying the city by confessing his true feeling to Joker

Batman: If it wasn’t for you, I wouldn’t have learned how connected I am with all of these people and you. So, if you help me save Gotham, you’ll help me save us. Joker: You just said “us?” Batman: Yeah, Batman and the Joker. So, what do you say? Joker: You had me at “shut up!”

The equivalent moment from Holy Musical comes from B@man needing to put aside his pride and encourage a disheartened Superman to save Gotham for him. This happens in the aftermath of a fight the two heroes had where Superman tried to stop B@man before he faced Sweet Tooth, B@man winning out through use of kryptonite. That fight doesn’t fit into any direct parallel with Lego Batman, but it is important context for how Superman’s feeling about B@man before Superman finally gets his long-awaited phone call from the Dark Knight. Also, the song accompanying the fight, “To Be a Man”, is one of the funniest scenes in the play. What this speech from B@man does is bring the idea of Holy Musical B@man as a commentary on fandom full circle:

B@man: I forgot what it means to be a superhero. But we’re really not that different, you and me, at our heart. I mean really all superheroes are pretty much the same… Something bad happened to us once when we were young, so we dedicated our whole lives to doing a little bit of good. That’s why we got into this crazy superhero business. Not to be the most popular, or even the most powerful. Because if that were the case, hell, you’d have the rest of us put out of a job!

This speech extends into an exchange between the heroes about how superheroes are cool, not despite anything superficially silly but because of it. Bringing it back to the “Robin Sucks!” theme that started Act 2, saying “Some people think Robin is stupid. But those people are pretentious douchebags. Because, literally, the only difference between Robin and me is our costumes.” The speech culminates in what I genuinely think is one of the best Batman lines ever written, as B@man’s final plea to Superman is “Where’s that man who’s faster than a gun?” calling back to the trauma that created Batman across all versions and what he can see in someone like Superman. So, B@man sacrificing his pride and fully trusting in another hero saves Gotham, the way Batman letting Joker know what their relationship means to him did in Lego Batman.

Each of these parodies ends by delivering a Batman willing to open himself up to a new team of heroes fighting at his side, the newly minted Bat-Family in Lego Batman and the league for justice known as the Super Friends in Holy Musical. Putting them side by side like this shows how creators don’t need the resources of a Hollywood studio to make something exactly as meaningful and how the best parodies come from love of the material no matter who’s behind them.

If you like what you’ve read here, please like/reblog or share elsewhere online, follow me on Twitter (@WC_WIT), and consider throwing some support my way at either Ko-Fi.com or Patreon.com at the extension “/witswriting”

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davidmann95 · 3 years

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How about those JL storyboards?

In case you haven’t heard, Zack Snyder is putting on display the ‘storyboards’ - i.e. a rough plot summary accompanied by some Jim Lee sketches - for what would have been Justice League 2 and 3, or as this puts it 2 and ‘2A’. You can see them here (I imagine better-quality versions will soon be released), and read a transcript here. This is evidently a very early version: this was apparently pitched prior to the release of BvS and Justice League being rewritten in the wake of it, with numerous plot details that now don’t line up with what we know about the Snyder Cut, plus it outright mentions it builds on the originally planned versions of the Batman and Flash movies. But it’s a broad outline of what was gonna go down, and while I initially thought it was Snyder throwing in the towel, the timing - paired with the ambiguity left by the necessity for changes, including that this doesn’t factor whatever that “massive cliffhanger” at the end of the Cut is - says to me he’s hoping this’ll be a force multiplier behind efforts to will sequel/s into existence. He’s probably right.

I’ll be discussing spoilers below, but in short: with this Zack Snyder has finally lived up to Alan Moore, in that like Twilight of the Superheroes I wouldn’t believe this was real as opposed to a shockingly on-point parody if not for direct, irrefutable evidence.

Doing some rapid-fire bullet points for this baby to kick us off:

* Folks who know the subject say a lot of this is a yet further continuation of Snyder doing Arthuriana fanfic with the League reskinned over those major players, and I’ll take their word for it.

* I don’t know whether I love or hate that in Justice League 2 the Justice League are only an extant thing for the first scene, and then it’s Snyder giving everybody their own mini-movies. It’s compressing the entire MCU “loosely interconnected solo stories leading to a single big movie later” strategy into a single movie!

* Funniest line in the whole thing: "Even Lantern has heard of the Kryptonian, worried that he's under the control of Darkseid. He heard his spirit was unbreakable." Hal what fuckin' Superman movie did YOU watch? Second funniest being “IT WILL GIVE HIM POWER OVER ALL LIVING LIFE”

* 90% of the plot I have nothing to say about, it’s generic stage-setting crap. That to be clear is the ‘shocked it’s Snyder’ element, it feels so crassly commercial in a way I can’t believe is coming from the BvS guy.

* Most of what I have to say is unsurprisingly gonna be about a handful of characters but Cyborg’s happy ending being “he isn’t visibly disabled anymore!” is not great!

* The Goddess of War battle with Superman...never pays off? No clue why it’s there.

* What I’d originally heard was that the Codex in Superman’s blood was the last key to the Anti-Life Equation and that’s why Darkseid was coming to Earth. It’s not like all of this wouldn’t have already been averted by Kal-El’s pod smacking into an asteroid on the way to Earth so it’s not as if this makes it any more Superman’s fault, and it would have at least tied all this back to the beginning of the movies, but I suppose that was either fake or from a later draft.

* I have NO idea how this was reimagined without the ‘love triangle’, it’s the central character thing and the entire climax flows directly out of it!

* Darkseid’s kinda a chump in this, huh

Anonymous said: So: Does Zack Snyder hate Superman?

Look: the hilarity of this when Cuck Kent has been a go-to Snyder cult insult towards ‘inferior’ takes on Superman for years cannot be understated, yet at the same time I can almost wrap my brain around where Snyder’s coming from with that as the end for his take on the character. He talked in that Variety piece on how his interest in Superman is informed by having adopted children himself, and Deborah Snyder is the stepmother to his kids by previous relationships, so I can see where he’d be coming from, and I can even imagine how he’d see this as ‘rhyming’ in the sense of “the series begins with Kal-El being adopted by Earth, it ends with him adopting a child of Earth!” In the same way as MARTHA, I can envision how he would put these pieces together in his head thematically without registering or caring what the end result would actually look like. In this case, Superman raising the kid of the man who beat the shit out of him who Batman had with Clark’s wife, who earlier told Bruce she was staying with Clark because he ‘needed her’, suggesting if inadvertently that this really honest to god was a “she’s only staying with Superman out of pity, she really loved Batman more” thing.

But Clark is nothing in this. He’s sad and existential because of coming back from the dead I guess, then he’s corrupted, then time’s undone and he woo-rah rallies the collective armies of the world (interesting angle for the ‘anti-military/anti-establishment’ Superman he’s talked up as) as his big heroic moment in the finale, and then he stops being sad because he’s adopting a kid. So his big much-ballyhooed, extremely necessary five-movie character arc towards truly becoming Superman was:

Sad weird kid -> sad weird kid learns he’s an alien, is still weird and sad, maybe he shouldn’t save people because things could go really wrong? -> his dad is so convinced it could go wrong he lets himself die -> ????? -> Clark is saving people anyway -> learns his origin, gets an inspiring speech about being a bridge between worlds and a costume -> becomes superman (not Superman, that’s later) to save the world, albeit a very property-damagey version, rejects his heritage he just learned about and space dad’s bridge idea -> folks hate him being superman and that sucks though at least he’s got a girlfriend now -> things go so wrong he considers not being superman but his ghost dad reminds him shit always goes wrong so he should be good anyway, which sorta feels like it contradicts his previous advice -> immediate renewed goodness is out the window as he’s blackmailed into having to try and kill a dude but the dude happens to coincidentally have some things in common so they don’t kill each other after all -> big monster now but superman keeps supermaning at it because he loves his girlfriend and he dies -> he’s brought back, wears black which apparently means now he likes Krypton again? -> he has work friends now but he’s still sad because he was dead -> evil now! -> wait nevermind time travel -> rallies the troops -> his wife’s having a kid so he’s not sad anymore -> Superman! Who gives way to more Batman.

Do I think Zack Snyder is lying when he says he likes Superman? No. I think he sincerely finds much of the basic conceits and imagery engaging. But I don’t think he meaningfully gives shit about Clark as a character, just a vessel for Big Iconic Beats he wants to hit. Whereas while for instance he’s critical of Batman as an idea (at least up to a point), he’s much more passionately, directly enamored with him as a presence and personality. So while Superman may be the character whose ostensible myth cycle or arc or however it’s spun might be propelling a lot of events here, it’s a distant appreciation - of course the other guy takes over and subsumes him into his own narrative. Of course Batman is the savior, the past and the future (though if he’s supposed to be Batman’s kid raised by Superman there’s no excuse for him not to be Nightwing), the tragic martyr to our potential. Admittedly the implication here is also that Batman can apparently only REALLY with his whole heart be willing to sacrifice his life to save an innocent, for that matter apparently his great love, once said innocent is a receptacle for his Bat-brood, but he and Clark are both already irredeemable pieces of shit by the end of BvS so it’s not like this even registers by comparison.

Anonymous said: That “plan” Snyder had was utter dogshit. Picture proof that DC & WB hate Superman. Also I love how you’re like Jor-El: Every single idealistic take you had about Snyder, his fandom, and BvS was wrong. Snyder’s an edgy hack, his fanbase just wants to jerk off to their edgy self-insert Batgod as he screams FUCK while mowing people down with machine guns, and the idea that BvS said Superman was better than Bats was completely wrong. You know what comes next SuperMann: Either you die or I do.

In the final analysis, beyond that mother of god is there sure no conceivable excuse for the treatment of Lois in this? The temptation is to join that anon and say as I originally tweeted that these were “built entirely to disabuse every single redemptive reading of the previous work and any notion of these movies as nuanced, artistic, self-reflective, or meaningful”.

...

...yeah, okay, that’s mostly right. Zack Snyder’s vision really was the vision of an edgelord idiot with bad ideas who was never going to build up to anything that would reframe it all as a sensible whole. He’s a sincere edgelord genuinely trying really hard with his bad ideas who put some of them together quite cleverly! But they’re fucking bad and the endgame was never anything more than ramping up into smashing the action figures together as big as he could, the political overtones and moral sketchiness of BvS while trying to say something in that movie reverberated through the grand scheme of his pentalogy in no way beyond giving his boys a big sad pit to rise out of so when they kicked ass later it’d rule harder, and all the gods among men questions and horror and trappings were only that: trappings. Apparently he’s really pleasant and well-meaning in person, but at his core his art as embodied in a couple weeks in his 4-hour R-rated Justice League movie meant to be seen in black-and-white all comes down to that time he yelled at someone on Twitter that he couldn’t appreciate Snyder’s work because it’s for grown-ups. He made half-clever, occasionally exciting shit cape movies for a bunch of corny pseudo-intellectual douchebags, folks latching onto and justifying blockbusters that at least acknowledge how horrifying the world is right now even if the superheroes are basically useless in the face of it if not outright part of the problem until a convenient alien invasion shows up to justify them, and a handful of non-asshole smart people who vibe with it but...well. ‘Suckered’ is a harsh word, and definitely doesn’t apply to all of them re: what they’ve gotten out of it up to this point and would (somehow) get out of this. But it doesn’t apply to none of them, either.

#Justice League #Zack Snyder #Superman #Batman #DCEU #Opinion

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a-crimson-lion · 4 years

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I Need To Stop Reading Into Things…😂

Yet again for @kiricookie .

[Check out this post first.]

So… we’re here again. Lord forgive me, I’m back on my bulls***.

Okay, jokes aside, I really should stop doing these things, but I am a stubborn individual. Plus, I wanna see how our notes compare, and try to have more civil discussions on the internet than I see on average. I’d reblog, but again, your post is already long as is (not incredibly long, but still), and I’d rather not occupy dashboard space more than I need to.

Alright, I think I’ve said my piece. Let’s talk about your post…

Oof. Starting right in the heart of the issue, really.

I am aware that Izuku is… incredibly likeable. I am aware that some of his issues, while perceived by some as noble, are heavily problematic and probably need to get sorted out before the boy gets a close audience with death. I am also aware that some of his habits are less than courteous in some circumstances, though like you said, Izuku has the benefit of having no malicious intent when it comes to these actions, even if they can come off as annoying.

Now, regarding Katsuki’s snail pace development… I get what you’re trying to say, but that doesn’t make it come off as any less frustrating...

As much as I want to believe that Katsuki’s upbringing in society is what’s stunted his growth so badly, I wish the narrative was more willing to show it. All we’ve gotten of Katsuki’s past are flashbacks from Izuku, remarks during the visit to the Bakugo household, and the “raised with violence” line from the Remedial Course arc. Now this understandably paints a pretty terrible picture, but uh… what has Katsuki done to try to fix it? How has Katsuki tried to demonstrate that his upbringing wasn’t justified? Why is he imitating the behaviors he supposedly despises, that supposedly keep him held back, instead of trying to find a workaround? I’ve only seen a few growth/redemption arcs of antagonistic characters, but even if the arcs took long, there was always an ultimate reason for doing so. And Katsuki doesn’t have that. At least, not yet.

It’s been implicitly established that Katsuki’s growth will be the mother of all slowburns. I’ve mentioned it in this old post of mine, but this is doing Katsuki no favors, at least for me. Now don’t get me wrong, I love myself a flawed character, but there’s only so much I can stomach before a flawed character becomes less “flawed” and more “asshole.” I personally believe that his true growth doesn’t get started until “Deku vs. Kacchan 2” (Episode 61), but if we really wanna consider that “Bakugo’s Start Line” (Episode 8) is his… well, start line, then that only makes it worse. Because again, his character arc is, as we’ve established, slow. But the fact that it’s slow enough for several other character arcs to transpire (Shoto, Tenya), as well as slow enough to allow “background characters” some significant development and return to relevancy (Eijiro, Hitoshi), I start wanting to stop holding my breath for his arc’s supposedly inevitable conclusion. Now I know you personally consider the suspense a positive, but it’s the opposite for me. I’d chalk it up to impatience, but again, MULTIPLE character arcs have transpired, and a few have been far more believably gradual compared to Katsuki’s.

While it is impressive that Katsuki was willing to pour out his feelings to Izuku, I’d like to argue that it wasn’t as… well, sentimental. Remember that society and Izuku’s peers before UA regarded him as the lowest of the low. The weakest, the most worthless. “The pebble in the path.” Considering that Katsuki lost the Training Exercise AND technically got outsmarted by Izuku, who was considered this until VERY RECENTLY, I’d imagine that’d be one hell of a blow to his ego. It is still significant that he’s willing to talk to Izuku about this, but it’s not exactly because he’s humbling himself. It’s because he’s begrudgingly admitting that he’s not the best, and it’s been well established that he HATES not being the absolute best. And I don’t know about you, but suddenly getting your high expectations crushed after years of nothing but “positive reinforcement” should not be made as big of a deal as it is here. I’m not saying to get over it, because you’ll never get over it, you have to live with it and learn from it, but don’t make it seem like it’s the end of the world and a half like Katsuki did in that scene. Plus, didn’t he essentially reaffirm that he was going to do what he planned to do from the start of his tenure at UA? I mean, good on him for his dedication, but you’d think the guy would want to take a step back and actually try to learn from others if they were so impressive.

Now, the DC Superhero franchise falls in and out from my radar at times, but I don’t think Katsuki and Batman are a good comparison for the point you're trying to make. Yes they both use violence, and yes they’re both intimidating, but for entirely different reasons. Batman uses fear tactics because he finds them efficient; I don’t know what they’re doing with his character nowadays, but from what I can gather in his earlier incarnations, Batman’s not out for blood. Vengeace, sure, but he doesn’t waste time getting there beating the snot out of his enemies. He takes care of them, sends them off, and keeps on trucking. Before they tried making him even more edgy, he didn’t kill and he kept away from firearms because he was well aware of any issues he had. He may not be a goodie two-shoes like most heroes, but he does show definitive empathy in some of his earlier incarnations. Remember, Batman was the kid who lost his parents to injustice. That was his entire reason for taking up the cowl, for becoming more than Bruce Wayne. In the Justice League Unlimited Episode “Epilogue,” he has the option to kill Ace, a teen villain with dangerously growing psychic powers. He doesn’t do that. He takes the seat next to Ace as she begins to die. He offers his support as Ace has to confront the terrifying realization that she is dying. He’s helping another scared kid, because he knows what it’s like.

That’s heroism. That’s Batman.

Katsuki’s motivations and actions aren’t as sympathetic. Him lashing out isn’t for anything strategical; early on in the series and even after his “Start Line,” up until the Endeavor Agency Arc, I believe, Katsuki’s sole motivations are victory and bloodlust. Even if it seems like he’s growing more chivalrous with his resolve, he backslides so many times back into the angry loudmouth trope its hard to want to keep hope, because if he can backslide multiple times before, what’s to stop him from backsliding again? It ruins the suspense for some people. And people are intimidated by Katsuki, but that’s because he’s borderline unhinged. I’d be scared s***less too if a pyrokinetic powerhouse was gunning on me with his eyes glowing like the fires of Hell as he radiated killing intent (an exaggeration, but still). I have yet to see Katsuki use this intimidation “tactic” of his beyond the fact that he appears to be enjoying it, either.

Alright, enough of that, let’s analyze that penultimate question: why hate Katsuki? If you asked me early on, I would say that yes, I don’t like him because he hurts Izuku. But as I’ve continued looking throughout the series, I now say that I don’t like him because, contrary to what he says, virtually everything is handed to him. Most of the time, its people mistaking his battle thirst as chivalrous determination, whether it be against a villain or just a standard opponent. He never tries to make himself any more “likeable,” and while Class 1-A is quick to call him out for this in the USJ Arc, by the Sports Festival they’re all flocking to him, and I have yet to understand any proper reasoning for this. It’s less like Katsuki proving there’s more to him than meets the eye and earning the respect of his peers, and more so that people latch on to the abstract concept of Katsuki’s coolness and strength, and he just begrudgingly tolerates them from there.

I mean, Eijiro was wholeheartedly against Katsuki’s actions during the Battle Trial, yet by the USJ the difference is night and day, and it doesn’t help that he’s interpreting Katsuki’s desire to beat up villains as “faith in his classmates.” Shoto was abused by Endeavor, so the fact that he can’t at least draw some comparisons between Katsuki and his sperm donor is slightly concerning, and while I want to chalk it up to his stunted social skills, I feel like Hori and/or his editors trying to shove in a friendship to increase their overall likeability (especially Katsuki’s) is more likely. Don’t even get me started on the hoops they jump through in the Joint Training Arc. Not even gonna touch that…

Okay, finally made it to the last paragraph. So, here’s something about me you may or may not like: I don’t like people dying, good or bad. Unless their actions are comparable to that of Satan, or at least close, then they shouldn’t get the axe. Why?

Because a dead person can’t change… and a dead person can’t suffer.

Believe me, even though I’ve fallen off the bandwagon a long time ago, I want Katsuki to change for the better. And he can’t do that if he’s dead. The manga’s most recent arc has been hella frustrating because of that, and no spoilers, but the two deaths that did occur did not leave me in high spirits. Hawks, Shigaraki, you both are on thin f***ing ice I swear. So no, lucky for you, I do NOT want to see Katsuki dead just because he happens to be an ass. What I wanna see is proper repercussions that go beyond being a villain hostage and having everyone else’s potential trauma downplayed for the sake of giving Katsuki more sympathy points.

Also, I’m well aware Katsuki’s death would absolutely ruin Izuku. I am also well aware that it is one of the few concrete facts I hate with nearly every fiber of my body. Not because of what it says about Izuku…

...but because I am sick and tired of Katsuki continuing to be the arrogant s*** he is, whether it be his genuine feelings or merely a front. I am sick of the fact that for as smart and aware that someone like him is, he still insists on trying to act like a badass when there is no need or overall expectation to do so. I am sick that he continues to decide to put himself and others in jeopardy, all for the purpose of maintaining his ego. I am sick that he gets all this support, all this help, and yet his development is still worse than a snail’s pace, and the narrative continues to keep letting him off with love taps and leaving him unfairly unprepared for the kill shot.

...maybe Katsuki deserves to get better. But is this really the best way to do it? Really?

Thanks for listening. Hope you got something from all of that.

-Crimson Lion (24 August 2020)

#bnha #boku no hero academia #mha #my hero academia #don't really know if these count as anti baku anymore. still tagging just in case.#anti bakugo #anti bakugou #character analysis #charater comparissons #character meta #meta #rant #response #Word Count: 1906 #...why do I keep doing this to myself? :'-D #yo kiricookie #while you're waiting to see heroes rising have this to tide you over #hope you enjoy it

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soyouareandrewdobson · 4 years

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Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na RACIST! (how Dobson thinks Batman is a supremacist, why I think Batman is not so good and Frank Miller is problematic

Over the last couple of years, Andrew Dobson has mad eit clear that he is not a fan of the character of Batman much (or anymore), calling him a Mary Sue and an embodiment of toxic masculinity as if that term means something nowadays considering how often it is thrown around. And don’t get me wrong, if you don’t like Batman as a character, that is completely fine with me. I myself am not the biggest fan of Batman myself. Or rather should I say, his overexposure in the comics.

Cause honestly, I do not hate the character on concept. I watched reruns of the Adam West Batman show from the 60s and the animated 90s show long before I even saw the Burton versions. Batman Brave and the Bold is one of my favorite animated shows of the 2000s. And I think that there are quite a few good Batman stories, shows and games out there overall. I do however believe that when it comes to Batman in the mainstream comics, things have taken a nose dive for a long time. Writers like Grant Morrison, Scott Snyder and Tom King in particular have over the last 10+ years (at least in my opinion) not just attempted to write stories about Batman as a hero, but also put him into the center of ever escalating events and philosophical wang fests so often, the comics and its characters (Batman and his villains alike) have become quite ridiculous. As a result Batman as a comic series is at times just too edgy, people get sick of certain characters (I like the Joker, but the way how he was handled in some of Snyder’s stories was ridiculous to the point they should have just called him Satan) and Batman comes off as a Gary Stu almost by default, cause the only way a “normal” human could even dare to deal with the over the top situations he faces, is by being even more over the top and smart and awesome by default.

Now that we got my soapboxing regarding why I think Batman is not as good as a comic character anymore out of the way, lets see what Dobson’s take on Batman is and why he thinks he is turning Bat- I mean bad.

He believes that Batman turns into a fascist.

... I would ask if that is a joke, but I know that Dobson does not get humor at all or can tell a good joke if he was possessed by Leslie Nielsen.

Okay, so lets just try to dissect why this is dumb.

First off, while I did not talk about it in detail, I did mention that there are different incarnations and versions of Batman to enjoy. Hey, Dobson himself said that the one he enjoyed the most was the Batman of the animated series in the 90s. Which btw I highly recommend. And so do others. But here is the thing: There is not one “ultimate” version of Batman to stick to. There are different interpretations of the character. And most people are okay with that. Heck, there are more than enough people who both enjoyed the 60s Batman and Burton’s Batman. The important thing is, that all those interpretations need to have a certain key element of Batman still in order to make the character recognizable as who he is to be. Which in my opinion is the willingness to fight for good even in the face of some serial killer level baddies and show also once here and there his smarts as well as a bit of heart (guess what people, Batman can be compassionate too if he needs to be) while at the same time wearing a costume as he does and try to convey the image of being “the night” to put fear in the hearts of those cowardly criminals.

Which is why people in general will call writers out on being bad, when you do not “get” Batman or what people in general associate Batman to be. But Dobson seems to insinuate at least indirectly that people are dumb for not understanding it. That he is supposedly the only one who “gets” Batman right. No Dobson, you are not the only one. The shitton of people who mocked Batman vs Superman of which you were a part of, are proof enough.

Next, I have to admit I find it hilarious that he believes that Frank Miller’s version of Batman is what he believes people consider slowly the mainstream version of the character. No they don’t.

Let me try to explain it with this version a bit, seeing how Dobson does not and in doing so is utterly misinformative. In the late 2000s, comic writer Frank Miller, known for work such as Sin City, 300 and his run of Daredevil in the 80s, was tasked by DC comics to write “All Star Batman and Robin” a miniseries in 12 issues. While the thing has actually pretty good artwork by Jim Lee (an artist Dobson wishes he could be), the story itself is very, very bad. While Miller was in the past quite respected and was the man behind “The Dark Knight Returns” in the early 90s (a comic even I think is pretty decent as a story about Batman as an older man taking the cowl up again) , his work in general even at this point was not that good. Miller had become an openly racist person towards people of muslim background after witnessing 9/11 in New York in person, Batman in his work became a vigilante who gets away with levels of assault, violence and edgy philosophing and beating his meat (metaphorically) that it just became pretty obvious that Miller had turned into a racist grandfather with power fantasies whose ideas oozed into his work. I am not denying the accusations Dobson throws here at Miller. His Batman in All Star is violent, acts like a self righteous psycho, kidnaps an underaged boy and does at one point consider that if he had Green Lantern’s power ring he could make the world “better” than Hal Jordan. Which considering his actions so far in that comic makes any person with self preservation instincts and empathy wonder, what “better” means. Additionally, other characters like Superman, Wonder Woman and the mentioned Green Lantern don’t really fare good either when it comes to having likable personalities, making you wish a villain like Luthor would just get rid of those “heroes” already just to assure us they could not go crazy next tuesday.

So yeah, it is a shitty version of Batman, despised by many to the point All Star Batman is mocked to the nth degree. Miller himself became even more controversial and hatred when he wrote and got Holy Terror released, a beast I do not even want to touch upon at the time righ now. I just say it is bad as shit and one of the worst writen and drawn things I ever saw.

HOWEVER… this version of Batman is not the mainstream one. I repeat: this is not the mainstream one, “accepted” by a majority of people. As the paragrpah previously show.

The character All Star Batman is considered ONLY associable with Millers miniseries of the same name, that did not even properly conclude as it was put on endless hiatus with issue ten. It has never become inspirational for any other portrayal of the character so far and DC comics also does not endorse the character in correlation with its main universe, even if they still sell tradepaperbacks of the series.

This, if you have any reading comprehension, points towards one of the biggest lies in Dobson’s comic: The idea, that THIS Batman is the one that’s been popular for the last 15 years or so, as STATED by Dobson himself in the second panel of his comic.

No. No, this “Batman”, the violent psychopath who uses guns and drives a tank, is not the mainstream and never was so in the last 15 years. Or I should rather say 20. See, this comic was published like in 2015. Meaning he is referring to Batman from between 2000 till 2015.

Lets see what versions of Batman were popular at this point

So we got a Batman who was there for a girl dying cause of something done to her brain, a 60s inspired Batman who still was badass and worked well with other heroes and saved the world a few times, a videogame Batman who would not even have let the Joker die when his poison finally got the better of him (Arkham City), a Batman who travelled backwards through time into the present and then tried to use his fortune to support heroes in other parts of the world to do good (I acknowledge though, the Batman shooting Darkseid thing was crap, even if Darkseid is the god of evil in DC) and we even got (though not shown here) a Batman who even when he drove a freaking tank did not run over peolpe with it (Batman, Nolan trilogy) and would rather accept people hating him than being a hero, by taking on the blame of Harvey Dent being killed to not taint the laters reputation. Oh and did I forget to mention that Nolan’s Batman almost sacrificed himself to prevent Gotham from nuclear destruction?

And before someone says “gotch’ya” by pointing at another rinfamous work by Miller, known as the Dark Knight strikes again… I said popular. That comic from the early 2000s was not popular and again NOT referenced much by mainstream media or mainstream fans as good.

Now I will say, Batman as in the mainstream comics at the same time got unfortunately darker to the degree I hinted on when I made this post. Cause the last 15 years were comic wise the time of Morrison, Scott and others in particular. Who were involved in such “brilliant” moves as the Court of Owls story, the introduction of Professor Pyg, turning Joker into a satanic archetype villain stu, Batman having the brilliant idea to go Big Brother Eye, the No Man’s Land shit, having to deal with more brutal murders than previously etc. Yes, mainstream Batman got more violent. But the violence was less in the character itself as more within the world he was part of. Mainstream Batman comics took on a more violent tone than there was before. But ironically, even if Batman had to face more brutal beatdowns and villains, by comparison he is one of the most “kind” characters compared to the ones he faces or even works with. This is a character who had to teach his own son that murder was not okay, cause the kid was raised by an evil murder cult.

And even with the mainstream comics such as Detective Comics and Batman main series becoming darker… they are not pro-fascist or go into that direction. I read a lot of DC in general, not just Batman, and Batman is not going sieg heiling or beating up people because of the color of their skin or because they are poor. When Lex Luthor was president, Batman was one of the main heroes opposing him. Mainstream Batman is beating you up for being a murderer and highly violent criminal with a gimmick, independent of your political agenda. And the writers are also not pro fascist, including even post 2015 Frank Miller.

Yeah. Frank Miller, whose work I am not fond of and who I think is a racist asshole who had things coming for Holy Terror, is not really writing (or at least publishing) racist Batman anymore.

Don’t get me wrong, I still think the guy is bad and I believe if he had a chance to get his opinion out unfiltered, we would be in for a shitstorm. But I actually read up on his Dark Knight 3: The Master Race thing because I was worried how racist that is and how DC would recover from that dud. Turned out… it was not as bad as you would expect with a title like this. The “Master Race” referred in that story to a group of racist kryptonians who thought they should take over earth because their powers made them superior. While Batman was not the most positive character in it, he was fighting against them with many other heroes. This Batman was actually a vast improvement personality wise from Batman in Dark Knight strikes again and All Star. So yeah, Batman written by racist grandfather was still a hero. Granted, I think a lot of that was also thanks to the fact that DC had partnered up Miller with someone who kept things tighter around him, but still. Fascist Batman is not a thing the comics and the majority of fans want.

Ironically, if you want to see how a publisher taints the image of a hero people look up to by making him more racist… well, Dobson’s “praised” and woke Marvel did once something called Secret Empire. Which had Captain America turn into the Fuehrer and taking over America. And the Nazis for a lack of a better word, were “competent” enough in the story that the heroes really only won in parts thanks to a shitton of asspulls. So… yeah.

I mean, the event still ended with the good guys winning and the bad guys defeated, but still.

youtube

#batman #adobsonsartwork #andrew dobson #frank miller #dc comics #this sucks #grimdark #batman and robin #syac #idiocy #fascism

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the-desolated-quill · 5 years

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Quill’s Swill - The Worst Of 2018

Congratulations dear reader. You survived 2018. And you know what that means. It’s time for another best of/worst of list. Welcome to Quill’s Swill 2018. A giant septic tank for the various shit the entertainment industry produced over the course of the year. The films, games, TV shows and various other media that got on my bad side. As always please bear in mind that this is only my subjective opinion (if you happen to like any of the things on this list, good for you. I’m glad someone did) and that obviously I haven’t seen everything 2018 has to offer for one reason or another. In other words, sorry that Fantastic Beasts: The Crimes Of Grindelwald isn’t on here. I’m sure it is as terrible as some have been suggesting. I just never got around to watching it.

Okay everyone. Grab your breathing masks and put on your rubber gloves. Let’s dive into this shit pile.

Hold The Sunset

The news that John Cleese would be returning to the world of BBC sitcoms was incredibly exciting, being a massive Fawlty Towers fan and all. Unfortunately Hold The Sunset was not quite what I had in mind. It’s one of those rare breed of situation comedies that chooses to offer no actual comedy. It’s not a sitcom. It’s a sit. Like Scrubs or The Big Bang Theory.

An elderly couple plan to elope abroad only for Alison Steadman’s son to barge in, having left his wife, and forcing them to put their plans on hold. Hence the title ‘Hold The Sunset.’ It’s like a cross between As Time Goes By and Sorry, but if all the humour and relatability were surgically removed by a deadpan mortician. The characters are weak, the plots are thin on the ground and the humour (hat little of it there is) feel incredibly dated. The middle aged mummy’s boy is something that hasn’t been funny since the 90s. It’s an utter waste of great talent and what hurts even more is that this tripe is actually getting a second series. I can only assume the people watching this are comatose. Either that or there’s an epidemic of people in Britain who have lost the remote.

Avengers: Infinity War

Yes this is one of the worst movies of 2018 and no I don’t regret saying that one little bit. Avengers: Infinity War was fucking terrible. Period. There were too many plots and characters going on, which made the film hard to follow (and what staggers me is that the so called ‘professional’ critics have condemned movies for having too many characters and plots before. Spider-Man 3, The Amazing Spider-Man 2, Batman vs Superman: Dawn Of Justice and even Deadpool 2. But because this is an MCU movie, it gets a free pass. Fuck off). The characterisation was weak due to sheer number of characters they try to juggle, resulting in characters coming off as one dimensional caricatures of themselves and scenes where characters such as Iron Man, Doctor Strange and Star-Lord sound completely interchangeable. The villain, Thanos, is a stupidly and poorly written villain, but that’s hardly surprising considering what a shit job Marvel have done building him up over the course of these 20+ movies. And let’s not forget that pisstake ending. A bunch of prominent Marvel characters die and it’s all very, very sad... except all these characters just so happen to have sequels planned, which makes this ending fucking pointless and have less impact than a feather on a bouncy castle.

I don’t know which is more shocking. That Marvel and Disney think their audience are that stupid and gullible, or that their audience are actually validating their view. Fuck you Disney.

Harry Potter: Hogwarts Mystery

I’ve always wanted a Harry Potter RPG, where you could customise your character, choose your house and actually live a full school life at Hogwarts. This year, Warner Bros and Jam City gave us just that.

That was a mistake.

Harry Potter: Hogwarts Mystery is the epitome of everything that’s wrong with the mobile gaming market right now. The gameplay is boring and involving where you just tap images on a screen until a progress bar fills up. Wizard duels are little more than rock-paper-scissors challenges that require no kind of skill. Bonding with friends and caring for magical creatures just consist of pathetically simple pop quizzes and yet more boring tapping. Oh and of course you only get a certain amount of energy to complete these tedious tasks. If you run out of energy, you wait for it to fill up... or pay up for the privilege. So determined are they to extract your hard earned cash from your wallet, there’s actually a bit where Devil’s Snare strangles your eleven year old avatar and the game effectively tries to guilt trip you into paying micro-transactions to save them. It’s sleazy, gross and manipulative. Honestly, you’re better off just playing Candy Crush.

Agony

When the developers of this game said they wanted to give the player a trip through Hell, they had no idea how true that statement really was. Agony is dreadful on a number of levels. The design for Hell itself, while visually interesting at times, is often not very practical and gets quite dull and repetitive after a while. The stealth mechanics are a joke and the AI of your demonic enemies are pitiful. All of this alone would have been enough to put this game on the list, but then we also have the casual misogyny. Agony is a gorefest trying desperately to shock the player. We see men and woman get tortured, but it’s the women that often get the extreme end. The violence inflicted on them is often sexual in nature and the game seems to go out of its way to degrade and dehumanise women at every turn. The orgasmic cries of ‘pull it out’ quickly become a staple of the game’s experience as we see naked women raped, tortured and murdered, all for the purposes of ‘entertainment.’

I would call Agony sexist, but honestly that would be giving it too much credit. Agony is like a little child trying desperately to be all dark and edgy in a pathetic attempt to impress everyone around him, and we should treat it as such. Go to your room Agony. No ice cream for you.

Peter Rabbit

If you listen closely, you can hear the sound of Beatrix Potter rotating in her grave.

Yes we have yet another live action/CGI hybrid, but instead of something innocuous like the Smurfs or Alvin and the Chipmunks, Sony instead decides to adapt Peter Rabbit, with James Corden in the title role.

It’s about as bad as you’d expect.

Their attempts to modernise the story are painful to say the least with pop culture references, inappropriate adult humour and twerking rabbits. Plus rather than the gentle, but slightly mischievous character we got in the source material, here Peter is a sociopathic delinquent who seems to revel in making the farmer’s life a living hell. He’s unlikable and unwatchable as far as I’m concerned and the film doesn’t in anyway earn the emotional moments it tries so desperately to sell to the audience. And the worst part is it’s getting a sequel.

Wait. Do you hear that sound? That’s the sound of Beatrix Potter tearing out of the ground, ready to kill whatever idiot came up with this shit.

Fallout 76

I was excited for Fallout 76. A MMORPG where players band together to rebuild society after a nuclear apocalypse. Could have been great. Pity it wasn’t.

Fallout 76 is a dreadful game. Not only is it a buggy, glitchy mess that requires a constant online connection to play, which could result in you losing hours of progress if your WiFi went down, it’s also unbelievably tedious, and that’s because there’s nothing to do in the game. There’s no other characters to interact with, the various robots and computers you come across are really little more than quest givers, there’s no actual plot so to speak, and because of the sheer size of the world and the number of players allowed on a server, the chances of you actually meeting any actual players is remote. And let’s not forget all the behind the scenes drama. Bethesda falsely advertising Fallout themed canvas bags and players getting shitty nylon ones. Bethesda accidentally releasing the account information of various players trying to get a refund for said bag. Bethesda failing to program the year 2019 into the game code, meaning that the game’s nukes don’t work.

Maybe there’s a chance that Bethesda could pull a No Man’s Sky and fix everything over the coming years with various patches and DLCs, but the damage has already been done. It’s incredibly disappointing. The Elder Scrolls 6 is going to have be fucking incredible to win everyone back.

Mama Mia!: Here We Go Again

I can’t stand jukebox musicals anyway, but Mamma Mia was always one of the worst. Its boring, meandering story with its one note, obnoxious cast of characters screeching out ABBA songs like they’re at some drunken karaoke session at some poor sod’s hen party has always grated on my nerves. So imagine my delight when they announced we were getting a sequel. Ever wondered how Meryl Streep met her three lovers and founded her hotel? No? Well tough shit, we’re going to tell you anyway.

Mamma Mia: Here We Go Again is basically just Mamma Mia again. The actors still can’t sing, the characters are still annoying and story is still boring and meandering, completely at the mercy of the chosen songs rather than the filmmakers using the songs to compliment the story (you know? Like proper musicals do?).

How can I resist you? Very easily as it turns out. Gimme, gimme, gimme a fucking gun so I can end my misery.

The Cloverfield Paradox

A lot of people were unhappy about the direction Cloverfield was going. They wanted a continuation of the found footage, kaiju movie from 2008, not an anthology series. I was personally all in favour. Partially because I thought the first Cloverfield was a tad overrated, but mostly because I thought it would be a great opportunity for more experimental film projects and could be a great launchpad for new writers and filmmakers. 10 Cloverfield Lane was a great start. Then The Cloverfield Paradox happened.

The Cloverfield Paradox is basically JJ Abrams trying to have his cake and eat it too. Maintaining the anthology format whilst connecting everything together in a ‘shared universe’ (yes, yet another shared universe). The result was a cliched, poorly edited and idiotic mess of a film that actually took away from the previous two films rather than added to them. Everyone hated it and, as a result, 2018′s Overlord, which was totes going to be part of the Cloververse, was made its own standalone film and Abrams double pinky promised to make a true sequel to the original Cloverfield. A complete and total disaster. No wonder it was a straight-to-Netflix film.

The Handmaid’s Tale - Season 2

This is probably going to be the most controversial entry on the list, but please hear me out because I’m not the only one who has a problem with this season.

I was reluctant to watch The Handmaid’s Tale simply because of how gruesome the original book was, but I forced myself to watch the first season and I thought it was pretty good. It remained faithful to the source material for the most part and included some nice additions that helped to expand the story and mythos. If it was just a one off mini-series, everything would have been fine. But then they made the same mistake as The Man In The High Castle and Under The Dome did where they commissioned another season and attempted to tell a story that goes beyond the book.

There’s a reason why the original story ended where it did. The Handmaid’s Tale isn’t meant to be an empowering story about women sticking it to the patriarchy. It’s a cautionary tale about how fragile our civil rights truly are and how easily they can be taken away from us. It’s designed to shock, not to satisfy. So seeing a handmaid blow herself up in a suicide bombing feels very incongruous and just a little bit silly. It would be like doing a TV adaptation of George Orwell’s 1984 where the first season followed the source material and then the second season turned Winston Smith into this heroic freedom fighter trying to overthrow Big Brother. It would represent a fundamental misunderstanding of what the book was about in the first place.

And then of course there’s the increased level of violence in Season 2, which many have complained about. In Season 1 and the original source material, the violence was justified. In Season 2, the motivation behind the violence has gone from ‘how can we effectively demonstrate how easily a fascist patriarchy can happen in the West?’ to ‘what brutal act can we inflict upon Ofglen to shock the audience this week?’ It’s purely for shock and nothing more. And with the showrunner (who I feel I should mention is a man) announcing that he has planned ten seasons of this, it seems that The Handmaid’s Tale is going to go even further with this depravity until it effectively becomes the equivalent of a Saw film.

The Handmaid’s Tale exists as a way of shining light on and critiquing misogyny in its most extreme form. Season 2 however demonstrates that there is a serious risk of it becoming the very thing it’s criticising in the first place.

The Predator

I love the Predator franchise, but The Predator is the worst.

People thought that this would be good because director Shane Black had actually starred in the first Predator movie back in 1987. Instead we got this bloated, confusing, obnoxious and insulting mess of a film that seems to go out of its way to ruin everything that makes Predator so good. There’s no tension. No suspense. No intrigue. Just a bunch of gore, explosions and shitty one liners from annoying and lifeless characters. They essentially took this big alien game hunter from outer space and turned him into a generic monster from a bad summer blockbuster. It no longer hunts for sport. It wants to take over the world and splice our DNA with theirs. But don’t worry, a rogue Predator doesn’t want to kill humans (even though he himself kills a bunch of humans), so he gives us a Predator Iron Man suit to set up a sequel that will probably never happen because this movie was a box office bomb and it fucking SUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCKKKKKKKEEEEEDDDD!!!

This film also has a very nasty streak towards those with disabilities. There’s a lot of jokes at the expense of a character with Tourette’s and it has an extremely ignorant and patronising view of autism, portraying the main character’s kid as being a super genius who can decipher the Predator language and even going so far as to say that he represents ‘the next stage of human evolution.’ Presumably the Predators want social communication difficulties because apparently it helps them hunt somehow.

What with Disney acquiring 20th Century Fox, the future of both the Alien and Predator franchises were very much in question. This film needed to be a success in order to make a case for Disney to keep making more of them. It wasn’t. Congratulations Shane Black. You might have just killed off this franchise for good. Thanks arsehole! :D

So those were my least favourite stories from 2018. Join me on Wednesday where we shall discuss something more positive. Yes, it’s awards season. Who shall win the coveted Quill Seal Of Approval? Watch this space...

Or don’t. It’s up to you. I don’t want to force you or anything. It’s a free country.

#quill's swill #quill's swill 2018 #worst of the year #review #opinion

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whiparoundandcry · 5 years

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Earbuds dump

someone wanted me to go through all the questions so //cracks knuckles

1: What inspired you to write the fic this way?

dunno what ‘this way’ specifically means, but I tried reenacting the way a lot of my fav fics have been, in way of word count per chapter, character interaction, plot balanced w/ the ship, ect

2: What scene did you first put down?

Maaan, it’s hard to remember what came first now. I have a doc thats like, 20 pages of just notes & me outlining the plot and world building. The first scene written on that doc is lloyd revealing his identity to the team, which actually happens about a year before the start of the story!

3: What’s your favorite line of narration?

hmmmm, I’m a sucker for when the narration contradicts the dialogue- I just think it’s really funny, pfft. can’t think of any large scenes I do that in rn, but I also really like this bit, during the city hall meeting The woman sitting at the corner chair closest to the ninja shifted in her seat, and stared pointedly at Kai and Jay. Kai tried not to shift under her stare, but he could feel Jay stiffen next to him. “You two saved Satoshi the night King’s was attacked, right?” Kai’s mouth was immediately dry and his brain cut out. Her voice wasn’t loud, but compared to the silence before, she might as well have fired a gun. The question itself was straightforward enough, but Kai hesitated to answer - first, because Green ordered them not to speak, and second, he had no idea what she was talking about. I try to keep Kai a reliable narrator (aka I project a lot) and I feel like this part is funny for first-time readers, bc you get the feeling of “do I know who that is??? Did I forget?” then kai confirms it like “who tf”

4: What’s your favorite line of dialogue?

Kai looked up from their hands to meet Jay’s eyes, all warmth and kindness. “I dunno. I’ve only know you for a month, but I still feel as close to you as I do any of them.”

ouch!!!!

5: What part was hardest to write?

GOD ALL OF THE FIGHT SCENES,,, this fic was so ambitious oh my god. That’s part of why the final chapter is taking a lot longer than normal- big fight scene ;v; also the meeting with the mayor was difficult to write bc like, I dont know shit about how city government works. My search history for the time I was writing that scene looked like I was researching for an essay, christ.

6: What makes this fic special or different from all your other fics?

I’m finishing it :,3

7: Where did the title come from?

real honesty hours: I thre in the bit about Kai giving Jay his earbuds on impulse. I never planned for them to be a reoccurring symbolic plot device or for them to even exist but damn, here we are.

8: Did any real people or events inspire any part of it?

My relationship with my brother def inspires how I write Kai & Nya. I say that I project onto kai a lot, but I project all of my ‘trans younger sibling’ energy onto Nya. ngl, most everything I’ve done in this fic was inspired by batman tho

9: Were there any alternate versions of this fic?

Yeah, I have around 3 scrapped scenes. I’ll probably never release them, bc they were scrapped for a reason :,3

10: Why did you choose this pairing for this particular story?

Kai & Jay are the most boring out of the four boys :, ) so I figure’d it’d be easiest to fit their charters into the plot I had in mind, I couldn’t think of any way to fit in the “zane’s a robot” or “cole literally died” plot into it without making the entire story about those things. If I was made out of time tho, you bet earbuds would be a polyninja story.

11: What do you like best about this fic?

I honestly just like that I’ve gotten as far as I have into it, and the perception that its gotten has been so incredible //sobs. Aside from that, my favorite parts about it are probably Kai & Nya/Lloyd’s relationship, and also that Nya is trans. I hadn’t seen any fics where she was trans before, and tbfh its my favorite headcanon. I’ll never write a cis nya in my life

12: What do you like least about this fic?

The relationship build up seems kinda... eh? I definitely should've put more into it, but at the same time I feel like I did as much as I could with it, just bc I’m so inexperienced with that stuff. I also with I could do a better job of conveying the vibe that I want this version of ninjago to give off (gritty, rough, gotham) but without being super edgy about it? Also I’m really upset that Cole & Zane are getting shafted in Earbuds. I should’ve come up with more stuff to include them, but everything I came up with just felt forced, so they ended up just being background characters- which is was more than they deserve, bc they’re honestly my favorite boys on the team.

13: What music did you listen to, if any, to get in the mood for writing this story? Or if you didn’t listen to anything, what do you think readers should listen to to accompany us while reading?

Well, there’s always the 8tracks playlist I made a while back (should transfer that onto spotify sometime) but theres a couple songs that I think fit the characters super well that aren’t on the list • “Fresh Eyes” is a super great Kai&Jay song QwQ “so suddenly I’m in love with a stranger / I can’t believe she’s mine / now all I see is you with fresh eyes” From Kai’s pov @ jay??? hell • “Better days” was a song rec sent in by my good bud hedley-ramsay anon, and it’s perfect for Kai’s POV, as he’s trying to stay optimistic about all the shit thats happening around him “Guess I didn't break it, but I bent it / I know I didn't say it, but I meant it / I shoulda had a little more heart and soul” • “Miss Atomic Bomb” is very very good for Lloyd & Harumi. tbh its a good song for them in canon too, but the dark city vibe it gives off fits so well with the Earbuds AU. “I was new in town, the boy with the eager eyes / I never was a quitter, oblivious to schoolgirls' lies” • “Be Still” is also a super great song for lloyd, in this au and just in general. “Be still / wild and young / long may your innocence reign” DONT CALL ME OUT I REALLY LIKE THE KILLERS

14. Is there anything you wanted readers to learn from reading this fic?

not... really? its a fanfiction about legos, I dunno if there’s any lesson to be learned from it. Be gay & do crimes

15. What did you learn from writing this fic?

writing fanfic is super rewarding & fun!! It’s a pretty pig time sink sometimes, but damn if yall don’t make it worth it.

thanks so much for your continued support everyone!!! The last chapter has 2 scenes to go and is currently over 10k words 💪

#earbuds #long post #woof

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joyofcrime-elinorhigh · 5 years

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Samurai Jack Season 5 REVIEW:

Thirteen years have passed, but the series does not age. It was a modern classic. Yet, the film's setbacks continued...Hope was lost. Got to get back, back to the past. Samurai Jack. Jack Jack...Jack Jack Jack.......Watcha? Well that was literally the worst intro conceivably possible and I've just lost all of my credibility. Let's do this!

Hello everybody, my name is JoyofCrimeArt and it's finally time for me to finally talk about the show that everybody in the animation community was talking about...about a month or so ago. (Dang self imposed hiatus.) From the director of "Adam Sandler get's into wacky situations as a vampire for ninety minutes 1 and 2" come the long awaited fifth season of Samurai Jack! Now before we start this, I feel that it's important for me to talk about my feelings on the first four seasons of the show. the first thing to get out of the way is that I did not watch Samurai Jack much when I was a kid. I started watching the series about a year ago, after I heard that a fifth season was announced. So basically, I have no "nostalgia." for this series. Also I haven't seen every episode of the old series, but I have seen a good handful and from what I've seen, it was pretty awesome. The show has one of the most creative premises for an animated series I've ever seen, and takes full advantage of all the possibilities that it's world presents. The show has a level of artistry that I have not seen from any other animated series except for maybe "Over the Garden Wall." And it has a very memorable cast of characters. (Even if said cast of characters is only about three guys.) The show was sometime truly unique, and there really isn't anything else like it. Except for Genndy's "Star Wars: Clone Wars" series, which is more or less Samurai Jack with a "Star Wars" mod skin over it. The show isn't perfect though, at least in my opinion. Sometimes the pacing can be a bit too slow, and a lot of times episodes are really just one long action scene. This wouldn't be a problem except most of the time it's Jack fighting some generic bounty hunter or monster who was just introduced in the episode, so it's hard to find them that interesting. Unless it's Aku, or a few other stand out villains, most of the foe's that Jack face tend to have really cool powers and designs, but not much personality. But those are small problems in an otherwise great show. . But how does this sequel season hold up. (And yes, it's a sequel season not a reboot. It's set in the same continuity as the old show so it isn't a reboot, dang it!) A lot of times in the past when a series comes back after being cancelled for a long time, it tends to come back not as good (*COUGH COUGH! FUTURAMA! COUGH! COUGH!*) does Samurai Jack fall into this trap or is it a rare exception to this rule. Let's dive in and find out. Oh, and the first part of this review will be mostly spoiler free, and then I'll have a warning before I get into spoilers. And when I say spoilers, I mean anything major that wasn't revealed in the first official trailer. Just for a heads up. Samurai Jack season five opens up fifty years after the first four seasons. It's basically the same old story, as Jack travels around helping people from the clutches of Aku and his minions. Only this time it's a more grizzled Jack, who has a beard, wears all black, uses really big guns, and has a motorcycle-HEY, COME BACK! I PROMISE IT'S NOT AS DUMB AS IT SOUNDS! Jack has become tired of all of this. Aku has destroyed all of the time portals, so he has no way to get back to the past. And to make matters worse Jack has lost his sword years ago, which is the only thing that can kill Aku. So Jack has been basically trapped in this limbo for fifty years, with no hope of every truly defeating Aku. (He doesn't age anymore due to a side effect of the time portal.) Meanwhile, we get introduced to the Cult of Aku. A cult who worships Aku as a God and is for some reason only made up of woman. I guess Aku likes his cult EXTRA THICC! (*Obligatory "Extra Thicc" joke...check!*) The High Priestesses of this cult gives birth the seven daughters, and we see that they are all raised from birth to become the perfect killing machines. And so this team of assassin's known as the "Daughters of Aku" lead by one of the daughter named Ashi (You know she's the leader cause she's the only one who has a name.) head out to find Samurai Jack and destroy him once and for all. So in case you couldn't tell, this season is MUCH darker than the past seasons of this show. But it manages to be dark without coming off as needlessly edgy, which is a really impressive feat. In fact Samurai Jack may be one of few "darker and grittier" continuations of ANY franchise actually works to the series advantage. It's not infallible, as there are a lot of scenes that do feel like there just being needlessly bloody and violent just because they can now, but for the most part the darker tone works to the series advantage. Serious issues are tackled, and they treat them seriously. Jack is driven by guilt over not being able to save people from Aku, and this guilt haunts him, both in the form of visions from his "past self" who is very reminiscent of Mad Jack from the old series, but also in the form of a ghostly horseman who wants to claim Jack and make him fall into despair.

The series tackles themes of depression, PTSD, child abuse, suicide, and weather or not it's okay to kill in self defense, and it doesn't sugar coat it either. So many adult shows just use raunchy humor and violence for a quick joke. And there's nothing necessarily, I like a lot of adult cartoons, but it is great to see an adult cartoon actually tackle adult issues with this level or respect and seriousness. So many adult cartoons just have characters kill people just cause' but this series actually poses questions about weather it's right or wrong, and makes it clear there's not always an easy answer. I have a lot of respect for this season for tackling these issues, and for doing it in a way that feels natural. This series really plays up all the implications that the first for series posed when it comes to the world that Jack lives in. Innocent people do die, and Aku and his bounty hunters do kill people. And the fact that Jack's been seeing this destruction and carnage for fifty years, and is powerless to truly stop it, it makes sense that he's beginning to lose sight between right and wrong. It makes sense that's he's getting PTSD visions in the middle of fights. And it makes sense that he's contemplating suicide. He can't die of old age, and no robot or bounty hunter is able to kill him. He feels like he's going to be wandering this world forever, and you quickly see why he wouldn't want that. It's really well done, and I give the series a lot of props for tackling these issues. In fact this type of stuff is probably my favorite element of this season. The show also still looks amazing. The designs and creativity are still very much there, and in some respects are even better than the old show. There are some scenes like the temple battle in episode two that honestly feel down right cinematic. The show still has it's quite, atmospheric moments, but the show also has a much brisker pace, due to actually having a continuous narrative. I like the brisker pace of the season...for the most part, but I'll get to that later. The action is still amazingly well done, and it's great to see an action show that is actually successful both critically and in terms of popularity. It's been so long since we had that. It's also neat to see an american action show that is target strictly for adults. We so rarely see that, and I'm glad that this was successful, and hopefully this seasons success could lead to more action adult animation in the future. Honestly, this is how a sequel series or a reboot should be done in my opinion. It captures the essence of the original, but does add enough new elements to make it unique. It would of been so easy to not make the series any darker, and just make it a bunch of standalone episodes, and then maybe do a two part finale wrapping everything up. But I like how it took a risk, and it clearly worked out for them. But yeah, onto the flaws, I... HEY! You're not allowed to have criticisms of this! This is Genndy Tartakovsky we're talking about! He can't do any wrong you casual plebe! Well, I believe that no one is perfect, and that everything has some pros and some cons, okay? I respect Genndy a lot, but even he has his duds. Have you seen his Cartoonsitute pilot "Maruined?" Of course you haven't, because it's awful! And before you say that Samurai Jack is flawless, I present you this scene where the animators forgot to give Jack a beard...

0 out of 10! Needs more beard!!!1! One thing, I don't really like what this season did with Aku. I kinda get what they were trying to do. They wanted to show the similarities between Jack and Aku, and give them a sort of symbiotic "Batman/Joker" style situation. Both are immortal, but neither of them can be happy until they kill the other and neither can. That is actually a really cool idea, and in theory I think it could really work. But the execution is where it falls a bit flat for me. He's just to silly. And I know he was silly in the old show, but he was also scary and a real threat. He doesn't feel that threatening in this season. The world he created is threatening, but the problem lies in the fact that, while everything else in this season is given a darker tone, it's surprisingly the villain who stays the same. I think this Aku could work for Cartoon Network, but not adult swim. Characters like the High Priestess come across as more intimidating then the God they worship. Aku also seems kinda like a wimp, afraid to fight Jack if Jack has his sword, even though he fought Jack in the old show a ton of times while Jack still had his sword. Because, even with the sword, Aku was still a shape shifting demon God who could kill you with heat vision. But here they all just act like once Jack has the sword he can just walk up to Aku and just kill him. Episode seven and a bit of episode nine are really the only episode where Aku feels like old Aku. I know they want to make him silly because everything else is so heavy, but if Gravity Falls can make a villain be as terrifying and comedic as Bill, then they could of balanced it with Aku.

Oh, check it out. Aku twerking. Interesting how NOBODY CARED WHEN SAMURAI JACK DID IT! Also, there are point in the season that are incredibly rushed! I know earlier I like the pacing, and I do in terms of actually events in particular scenes and episodes, but when looking at the season as a whole, it's impossible for me to not notice the pacing problems. Event's weren't necessarily rushed, but arcs where. I can't go into the specific problems until I get to spoilers but the pacing is probably my biggest problem with the season. If there is one thing you can say about Samurai Jack is that it NEVER felt rushed. It always took it's time when it came to presenting a scene. That's why so many episodes would start with Jack just slowly walking across a landscape. I can't really go into specific examples without going into spoilers though so...let's get into spoilers. THIS IS THE SPOILER SECTION! So let's talk about Ashi. I really like the concept of her. An assassin trained from birth worshiping Aku who ends up becoming Jack's sort of sidekick. Ashi and Jack do have a good dynamic going on once Ashi begins her redemption arc. I like how it's not just a student/master relationship, as they both teach each other things. Jack teaches Ashi to let go of her hate, and Ashi teaches Jack to let go of his regret. This stuff I really like, and I think it works really well. The problem I have is that Ashi's whole character arc feels incredibly rushed! the issue stems from just how devoted Ashi was to her cause at the start of the season. She literally spends all of episode four trying to kill Jack while inside the sand worms stomach, and makes it very clear that she is willing to kill herself as well as long as she makes sure the samurai dies with her. She is completely unphased about her sisters being killed, because her life and the concept of life in general hold such little value to her. But then she just see's Jack not kill a ladybug and suddenly, Bam. She no longer wants to kill him. MIRACULOUS! And yeah, I know Jack tells her that everything she knows is wrong, and she wants to know why, but if she's this brainwashed then why does it work so quickly. She's known Jack for like a day, and has spent at least eighteen years being told to never trust him. I know she see's him sparing the ladybug, but she also saw Jack sparing her life countless times, and that didn't effect her. It was only when he saved the ladybug when she decided to not kill him. And speaking of rushed, oh boy oh boy, let's talk about episode eight. Let me get this out of the way, I can see a scenario where "Jashi" as others have called it COULD work. The two have very good dynamic together. Yes, it is a little weird cause Jack is literally old enough to be her grandfather, and he is also the only man she's ever had any form of serious interaction with, and it could be seen as a bit of taking advantage of her, but I can let that go on the grounds of it just being a cartoon. I'm not totally closing the door on the possibility of a relationship. The issue is that nothing in the previous episodes seems to imply that there relationship was like that. And then in episode eight were just suppose to buy it. And I don't. This relationship needed more then just one episode to establish itself. Still though, Jack being hilariously awkward almost made up for it.

Jack: So Ashi, did either of our parents explain to us how sex works? Ashi: Nope. Jack: Damn it. And there are even more examples of times where the pacing seems to be a bit rushed, but those are the two main ones. Honestly, I don't know why the pacing is like this. Part of me feels like maybe the series could of been better if it had a few more episodes to flesh out all of the ideas, like maybe thirteen instead of ten, but even then I'm not so sure. Cause there are a lot of moments in this season that, while usually cool, aren't exactly needed for the plot. Like Scaramouche's whole subplot in episode six. All that is needed plot wise is that he reboots, sets out to go tell Aku about Jack losing his sword, and that's it. We don't need to see him come up with all those schemes to board the boat, our minds would naturally just fill in the blanks on how he got there. Then we could have more time on Jack contemplating suicide. Yes, we would of missed Tom Kenny saying the word "penis" which would obviously be a tragedy, but from a purely plot perspective, we didn't need it. Or Ashi's whole battle with the orc army in episode seven. We don't need that. All we needed was Ashi to fight her mother. It's not like the orc army really accomplished anything. Heck, honestly did we even need Ashi to fight her mother. I mean I guess it was to give her arc a sense of closure, but she had already denounced Aku and, now knowing the ending of the series, it's not like the priestess was going to survive anyway. Then we could of had more time with Jack on his spiritual quest, instead of him just making tea with Buddha, and just laser zapping Old Jack. And then there was that one episode in the middle of the season, where Jack and Ashi weren't even in it at all, and the whole episode followed around some old guy in a lab coat ranting about McDonald Schezwan Sauce! I have no idea what THAT was about!

Look, I'm not saying that Genndy Tartakovsky jerks off to Ashi being shown in immense pain but...No, that's exactly what I'm saying. I'm not kink shaming, I'm just sayin'. Speaking of which, I wanna talk about something in episode six that really bugs me. I find the reason Jack loses his sword to be kinda stupid. Or at the very least, flawed within the logic of the show. In this episode, Aku turns a couple of baby goats into giant monsters and has them attack Jack. Jack, angry about the loss of the last time portal, ends up giving into his anger and kills the baby goats. This is treated as a bad thing, as the Gods make Jack lose his sword because of this. But what was Jack suppose to do?! Let the goats kill him, even though Jack is the only one who has a chance of stopping Aku? There was no way to reverse the effects of Aku's curse. And this wouldn't bother me to much, except earlier in the season we got a whole arc about how it is okay to kill in self defense. The Daughters of Aku are a lot like the goats when you think about it. They were turned against there will to kill Jack. The only difference is that the Daughter's of Aku were mind controlled from birth and the goats were mind controlled with magic. How come it's okay to kill Aku's Daughters but not the goats. If anything Aku's Daughters should have more value, not just because there human, but because Ashi proves that they could be turned good. Who's to say that Ashi is the only one who Jack could of shown the light? There really isn't much implying that all seven daughters couldn't have been reasoned with if they went through the same things that Ashi did? The show just seems like it has some conflicting messages on this subject, and for some reason acts like Ashi was the only one of the Daughters of Aku who could ever possibly be redeemed. Also we see Jack eat meat! So he clearly kills animals! But whatever. I know it's kinda a nitpick but when the whole season makes such a big deal about killing and Jack's sword it's hard not to notice the inconsistencies. So let's talk about the finale. Outside of episode eight this seems to be the thing that fans are the most split about. Some fans think it's great, while others find it to be a bit of a disappointment after thirteen years of build up. Before I get into the finale though, I just want to say that I CALLED ASHI BEING THE LITERAL DAUGHTER OF AKU! (Kinda.) When the series first started I guessed that Ashi would be the literal daughter of Aku. But then when it seemed like they weren't heading that direction I figured, "Eh, I guess I was wrong." But I was right! Ha!

Jack: DAMN IT, AKU! STOP MAKING ME FALL IN LOVE WITH FEMALE VERSIONS OF YOU! FOOL ME ONCE, SHAME ON YOU. FOOL ME TWICE, SHAME ON ME! Anyway, there are definitely a lot of good elements in the finale. The army of past characters coming to Jack's aid, while definitely predictable, was really cool. It really helps fit the theme of Jack's actions having an influence on the world. The fight itself was also cool, and it was great seeing The Scotsman actually reunite with Jack one last time, even if it was a bit brief. My only main gripes with the finale are that, one.) We never really get a truly epic final battle between Jack and Aku. All we get is a quick curb stomp battle between Jack and Past Aku. We don't get any fight with Jack and future Aku, and it's a bit disappointing since this is literally the only Jake/Aku fight in the whole season, not counting the one in episode six where Aku just runs away. We don't really get a truly epic Jack/Aku on the same level that we got in the old seasons. and two.) I honestly find the ending a bit to happy. I know that sounds weird, considering the fact that it's a bit of a bittersweet ending, but it just felt a bit out of place to me that Jack actually did make it back to the past. The whole season prior really made it seem like it wasn't going to go that way. They seemed to set things up like they were saying "No, Jack can't undo all the horrible things that Aku has done in the past. But that doesn't mean he should give up. He can still defeat Aku now, and free the future from his reign of evil." I mean it kinda makes all the grief he felt in the begining of the season seem less meaningful if he just undoes it. And yes, I know he still had to experience all off that, but still. Also I don't like how it just erased all of the characters who we've come to love over the years. Or are they alive in the future, just a less evil future? I don't know, the show doesn't tell us. It feels really sudden and, again, kinda rushed. I know this ending is kinda controversial, and I don't hate it, but I do find it interesting that a series that fans waited so long for the conclusion to was so unsatisfying to so many people. Like what if other series that have continuations come back and have unsatisfying endings, even if those endings were the ones the creators intended. It'll be interesting to see. So yeah, I didn't hate the ending by any stretch. I wouldn't even call it bad as much as I would call it off. But then again, maybe after thirteen years we all had the ending sort of worked out in are heads to the point were any ending that didn't match our head cannon would seem a bit off. There's also some weird fridge logic things to. Like why does Ashi wait till there wedding to stop existing. Did they get married that day? Considering how quickly they feel in love I wouldn't be surprised. Also, did going back in time undoing the whole "immortality" thing or not, it wasn't very clear. What happened when the Emperor dies? Will Jack just be emperor forever. Considering all the crap Jack's been through in the future there's no way ANYTHING in the current timeline would be able to kill him...and he no longer wants to kill himself. Have we just gone full alternate history here? Will Jack live till WWII? Will Japan in this timeline join the allies, as Emperor Jack refuses Hitler's offer to join the Axis due to how much Hitler will remind him of Aku? WILL JACK FIGHT HITLER? CAN HITLER'S "SPEAR OF DESTINY" WORK AGAINST JACKS SWORD? WHO'S MAGIC WOULD BE STRONGER? CAN WE GET A SEASON SIX WERE JACK FIGHTS HITLER? PLEASE adult swim?! PLEASE!? PLEASE!?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct9h_BtUZKI

SPOILERS ARE NOW OVER! So those are my thoughts on Samurai Jack season five. You might get the impression from all of my complaints that I didn't like the season all that much, but that couldn't be further from the truth. I may be critical, and yes, I do have my problems with the season. But that doesn't make the good stuff in the season any less good. In general I tend to be more critical and nit picky about things I like than things I hate. This is because I expect more from them. Despite it's flaws Samurai Jack season five was still a fun ride from start to finish. The animation is just as, if not more, amazing than it was in the first four seasons. The acting was great, especially Phil Lamar does some really amazing acting as Jack. The darker story line required a lot more emotion behind some of these lines, and he was able to pull them off great, despite how stoic is performance usually is. The action was just as good as ever, and I love the darker road the series took. While I do like a lot of immature adult cartoons it was nice to see one of the only adult shows that actually felt "adult." Sure parts were rushed, the ending was a little wonky, and there are definitely plot holes but as a whole, I think I liked the episodes in this season more than the handful of episodes I've seen of the previous seasons. While that run may have had less plot holes and was less rushed in it's delivery, the stuff in this season is just so good that I can overlook some of the flaws. In the end I'm glad that this story did finally got a proper conclusion, and that the road that we have followed Jack on for last sixteen years has finally come to an end.

So that was my review of Samurai Jack season five. I know I'm a little late to the party on this, but I wanted to make sure that I got it right. What did you think of the review, or the season or series as a whole. Leave your thoughts in the comments down bellow. I'd love to hear what you think, even if you don't agree with me one hundred percent, and start some kind of conversation. Leave a fav, follow, or comment if you liked the review and have a great day.

(I do not own any of the images or videos in this review all credit goes to there original owners.)

https://www.deviantart.com/joyofcrimeart/journal/Samurai-Jack-Season-Five-REVIEW-687392078 DA Link

#Smaurai Jack #Samurai Jack Season 5 #Review #Toonami #Rick and Morty

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lananiscorner · 6 years

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I can't help but wonder if many of us have a disconnect from people who actually buy comics. I know for the longest I got most of my info from tumblr and things me and others were angry about did'nt seem to bother people I knew who bought them. ( Like alot of people irl seemed to miss edgy Jason for some reason, especially going by their reactions to Injustice Jason ) Do too many of us not let our voice be heard with actual buying habits?????

Thanks for your ask, Anon.

I don’t know. The only thing I can sadly say is that there’s a pretty clear gender-split in which character versions people like. Most male Jason fans I know want him to be edgy “gun down every mook I see” Red Hood. Most female Jason fans I know want him to move on, get a chance to heal, and be a hero who reserves lethal force for when it’s really necessary. And that includes people who do actually buy digital version and/or trades of RHATO, Detective Comics and Batman! Sometimes it seems to me like the only time that all comics fans can agree to “this should be wholesome and fun rather than dark and edgy” is when it is a movie about actual kids (up until early puberty the latest), for example Supersons.

That said, taking Jason as an example, we didn’t really GET that many opportunities of supporting a less violent Jason to begin with. I mean, just looking at Post Crisis, most of what we got was pretty horrible and I won’t fault anybody who didn’t buy the Countdown books, even though they had some of the better Jason moments, because those books were just baaaad. When it comes to businesses, you vote with your wallet, so there is definitely something to the idea that fans of Less Edgy Jason didn’t register on DC’s radar because they didn’t spend money. Why would I spend money on a comic where my favorite character is an OOC villain? Why would I spend money on comics where abusers get away scott-free?

Also, never underestimate DC’s ability to completely tank characters that had good storylines and solid sales and praise from all kinds of demographics. Just look at what they did to poor Cass in the mid 2000s...

I don’t know. I’ve kind of given up on trying to understand DC’s decisions in those matters (or the people I know in RL who want Super Edgy Punisher Jason, because just the way they talk about the character tells me a lot about their way of thinking that makes it clear to me that these are not people I want to deal with more than absolutely necessary.) I’ll just be over here with my fics and my Arkham Knight, thank you very much.

#asks #Anon #voting with your wallet #DC's 'creative' decisions

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allofthisnonsenseplease · 6 years

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firesonic152 - 10/31/2017 superheroes??

SuspiciousPopsicle - 10/31/2017 Yus. -'u'- Who's got what sorts of powers? Do we wanna make Jack your standard super strength, super speed, flight, lego hair type? or something more tailored to his personality? also, if option A, should he have a secret power as well which he doesn't like using for some reason? and for Gabe, Reaper-esque powers? Or flip it to something that still reference that, but goes in a different direction?

firesonic152 - 10/31/2017 LEGO HAIR LMAO

SuspiciousPopsicle - 10/31/2017 or maybe even have him be more like Batman? Where he's got skills and gadgets, but isn't super human or enhanced? SUperman has fucking lego hair.

firesonic152 - 10/31/2017 ooo i like the batman-esque thing for gabe !!

SuspiciousPopsicle - 10/31/2017 you could pop it right off his head.

firesonic152 - 10/31/2017 LOL jack is just edgy captain america

SuspiciousPopsicle - 10/31/2017 oh, yeah, him too. like a lego man. i feel like it clicks into place too neat.

firesonic152 - 10/31/2017 XDDDDDD i want him to secretly be a mutant or something and yeah like you said earlier has some secret ability bc of it that he doesn't use

SuspiciousPopsicle - 10/31/2017 honest to god, my first thought as i'm sitting here considering what Jack's secret power ought to be was 'can give opponents instant boners' SO. setting that aside XD

firesonic152 - 10/31/2017 AHAHAHAHAHA

SuspiciousPopsicle - 10/31/2017 next thought was that he has some sort of mind control thing he can do--like, he can make an opponent so enamored of him that they'll follow any order he gives. but i kinda want his power to be integrated with the other things he can do

firesonic152 - 10/31/2017 ooooo i actually like the mind control thing... like he's really uncomfortable w leadership bc he doesn't like making people do things

SuspiciousPopsicle - 10/31/2017 yupyup

firesonic152 - 10/31/2017 which informs his whole loner schtick refuses to join any superhero organization

SuspiciousPopsicle - 10/31/2017 and he hates using it bc of ethical reasons, but he WILL if lives are at stake

firesonic152 - 10/31/2017 yeah QoQ but he always feels gross after

SuspiciousPopsicle - 10/31/2017 yup. and he tries so hard to avoid it so that he doesn't start to depend on it. plus, part of the reason he feels gross is bc it does give him sort of a power rush, and there is a slight temptation to use it to nudge events in his favor when he's just out, like, barhopping or whatever.

firesonic152 - 10/31/2017 yepppppp especially to get people in bed w him

SuspiciousPopsicle - 10/31/2017 exactly but that is All Sorts of Wrong and he knows it so he doesn't ever ever do it, and he hates himself for even thinking that it's a possibility. which, to be fair, it technically is. just a repugnant one. anyways, is this sort of a tiger & bunny thing where there's lots of heroes, and they have like, one special quirk, but sometimes someone with the proper tech can go be a hero too? and everybody just kinda thinks that Jack is one of the latter?

firesonic152 - 10/31/2017 yeah!! definitely and gabe actually is a batmany type

SuspiciousPopsicle - 10/31/2017 Angela developed the nanite swarm, and Gabe uses it for his hero stuff, and he's got, like, ninja/magician/illusionist tricks to make it seem like he's actually vanishing in a cloud of nanites & other junk. He's the opposite of Jack--a normal dude masquerading as a superpowered super hero

firesonic152 - 10/31/2017 gabe of course designs all the aesthetics himself LOL

SuspiciousPopsicle - 10/31/2017 ABSOLUTELY theater kid with a minor in special effects

firesonic152 - 10/31/2017 so gabe thinks jack is a lame version of him being a self made super

SuspiciousPopsicle - 10/31/2017 lol that's mean Gabe. He's trying. A for effort, Jack. are they rival heroes then? also, does Gabe work as a lone wolf to help disguise his lack of powers?

firesonic152 - 10/31/2017 yeah! so whenever they both end up at the same crime scene they get snippy w each other gabe's flashy dramatics grate on jack's nerves

SuspiciousPopsicle - 10/31/2017 XD jack firing off a round of something non-lethal into the disappating swarm of nanites after one of their fiercer arguments

firesonic152 - 10/31/2017 LOL gabe gets pissed bc it makes a rip in his cloak so is gabe like... mad rich and jack is more spiderman-y, way less resources but kinda smart enough to make it work

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 wealthy gabe. w a big mansion. lots of varied, classy, beautifully arranged places for the two of them to fuck. XD

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 >:3c they're both like. so angrily attracted to each other lol it's one of those gabe is determined to figure out jack's secret identity jack would rather not know anything about gabe. he doesn't want to get invested.

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 oh. =( jack's just there for the sex and violence? lol

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 yepp ooo we need to get into origin stories is gabe just... batman all the way dead parents when he was eight and shit except he likes guns

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 lol mmm... well, where does his money come from? inheritance? earned through his own efforts? lottery?

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 shady mafia parents?

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 XD that might be good, tho--using the mone they made in the illegal trade that eventually got them killed to combat crime paying the community back in his own way

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 yep !! what's jack's origin story something to do w mutant discrimination

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 he was spat out of a cornfield fully grown and hitchhiked to the big city

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 LMAOO or we could have him figure out his powers in some traumatic way as a child

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 what if his parents tried to send him to a camp to pray the abnormality away when his powers first presented and there was abuse and what not going on, so even after he went home, his relationship with his parents was strained. he didn't stay long, and they didn't look too hard for him when he ran away. He was fourteen or fifteen, and looked a little bit older than he was, but he was in over his head and had to use his power a few times just to get a meal or sometimes a job so that he wouldn't starve to death. he made his way slowly across the country, hitchhiking, mostly. anyone that wanted something more from him than he was comfortable giving as payment for the lift suddenly decided that what they really wanted was to pull over and let this wonderful boy out. Disgusted with himself, wondering if sucking cock wasn't actually a more honest way to get as far from where he'd been born as possible, Jack kept going out of sheer determination. Prolly did a few minor acts of heroism along the way, which gave him a taste for it.

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 AW GEEZ QOQ THAT'S UPSETTING AOJCNAECJN i love it lmao he wants to save people to redeem himself!! he never quite recovered from the feeling of self-disgust he got from his parents

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 ta-dah lol

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 lmao jack can tell from all of gabe's fancy gadgets and shit that he's rich as hell and is like super resentful assumes gabe's had a mad easy life and is just doing this for the thrill of it gabe meanwhile can tell jack is pretty angry and reclusive and is curious they always have fun banter in which gabe is overdramatic and jack is overly snarky

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 oooh, a mystery. let's poke it! :D

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 yep! jack accidentally slips up in his snark one day and comments on gabe's sexy ass like "what tf kind of money did you spend on those stupid pants that they cling to your ass like they're painted on" or something and gabe is like lmao you been looking? ;3

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 omg jack

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 jack's been spending a lot of time examining gabe's crotch lately wondering about that D

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 jaaaaaaaaaaaack

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 he's very curious about all gabe's gadgets and their alternate uses

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 jack pls you're supposed to be fighting crime

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 jack gets himself into trouble and gabe saves his ass. gabe insists afterward that jack have some kind of homing beacon in case he ever gets in trouble

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 well, that's sweet of him. Gabe, you big softie. Saying that since Jack doesn't have any powers, it's only right Gabe look after him a bit. He doesn't understand the flash of bitterness on Jack's face, and mistakes it for envy.

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 oh geez gabe you are pressing buttons you didn't even realize were there jack hates how much he wants to fuck gabe despite him being annoying as hell

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 lol they're both caught. XD stubborn fucks.

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 gabe keeps wanting to like mother jack and jack hates it lmao does jack like have a job irl to make money he's gotta

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 yeah. i think he'd need one lol what if he ends up as Gabe's chauffer or something?

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 LOL YES he gets fired from his previous job of something classically superhero like working for a newspaper and he somehow stumbles into becoming gabe's driver it definitely helps that gabe is wildly attracted to him for some unknown reason

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 XD oh, hey--what if something bad goes down while he's out driving with Gabe one day, and Gabe is all about rushing in to help save the day and Jack, not realizing who his boss is and being afraid that he's going to get himself killed, uses his power to make Gabe drive to safety while he stays to deal w the bad guys

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 AHHH and gabe doesn't know who jack is either once he gets to safety he's like WHAT THE FUCK I JUST LEFT MY DRIVER IN DANGER he quickly gets into costume but by the time he gets there, jack is gone that soldier 76 guy is standing over all the bad guys who are completely beaten to hell

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 Gabe is as serious as Jack's ever seen him when he comes dashing up demanding to know what happened to...Jack. XD

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 LOL jack is like what the fuck why does reaper care about. real me.

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 oh shit! XD i forgot he was all reaper-y! X''''D fuck, dude, i think i need to turn in. i am Not With It tonight.

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 awwwww

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 oh SHIT. yah. it's after 1. i DEFINITELY need to turn in.

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 hugs

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 ^^;;;;;;;;;;;;; hugshugs will ttyl <3<3<3

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 sleep well!!!

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 you too. =) night night

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 so reaper shows up to the crime thing but 76 has already taken care of it. reaper anxiously asks after the collateral damage and 76 gruffly assures him there were no innocent victims

reaper doesn't bother sticking around for banter, he's worried about his (handsome) driver. he rushes back home and changes back into gabriel and calls jack up

jack has to dash into a random alleyway and take off his mask to answer his cell phone XD

gabriel is all worried and asking if jack's hurt, says it's okay if he doesn't want to come into work tomorrow, apologizes for just driving off he's not sure what came over him

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 omg and Gabe feels soooooooooo bad about it, honestly, and every word of apology is another stab of guilt for Jack

!! Gabe taking just a little advantage of the situation to use it as an excuse to offer to treat Jack to lunch. Jack starts to decline (bc of course he feels he shouldn't benefit in any way from what he did) but Gabe insists

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 ahhhhhh gabe treats him and jack is once again a little annoyed at gabe's sheer wealth. internally grumbles about these damn rich people

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 KISS KISS FALL IN LOVE

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 LOL YEP ahh they start talking and it's a little too east to banter jack has to keep reminding himself that gabe is his employer

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 meanwhile, Gabe sees him forgetting that and isn't about to throw out any reminders XD

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 hahahaha god gabe wants to sleep w him so bad LOL gabe has a crush on jack and jack has a crush on reaper

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 XD this feels like that ladybug show

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 YEP gabe tries to apologize again for leaving jack in danger and jack snaps at him to stop with that ahh accidentally "ordering" gabe to stop doing that. and gabe does.

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 oooh. so, what if there's, like, a time limit to his powers? 24 hours or so? during which, the infatuation reamins high and people will still do what he says. that way, Jack can accidentally order him to stop (and get a LOVELY little reminder that he's still in charge of gabe) without him being unable to control that power he hates so much.

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 AHH jack gets all freaked out and mumbles that he has to go

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 bc obvs, the "date" was only due to his powers

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 oh jaaack he hurries home and kicks a chair over

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 ;; Gabe gives it a couple days to let him have some space, and when things aren't unbearably awkward (somehow???) on the job and Jack doesn't quit, he asks him out to dinner. And Jack kinda shor circuits for a minute as he tries to remember if he mindfucked Gabe again and forgot about it.

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 QoQ jack can't deny though. he has a thing for reaper and... gabe kinda reminds him of that....

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 lol jack. listen to that intuition of yours.

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 XDD

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 Jack being a bit nervous when he shows up for this date, trying to get past it by making a joke & asking if this is just for fun, or if he ought to look for another job. Gabe actually looks distressed over the idea.

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 AWWW gabe gets kinda flustered and says no, no he really... wants to get to know jack better jack bluntly asks if he's looking to sleep together

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 Gabe chokes on the sip he was taking.

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 LOL THE ANSWER IS YES but instead he kinda splutters what?? jack shrugs and looks at him through his eyelashes

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 Gabe tries to be both cautious--bc Jack IS his employee--and suave, and fails at both.

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 awwww just kinda blurts out that jack is unfairly attractive and he'd really like to... know him better jack smirks which is REALLY UNFAIR and says "in the biblical sense, i assume"

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 XD WHO IS IN CHARGE HERE??

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 XDDDD

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 Gabe feels his control of the situation slipping away. he had planned this, had meant to charm Jack and put him at ease and invite him home after dinner for drinks and maybe something more, but Jack went and threw off his game and now he can't seem to catch up.

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 awwww w gabe ahhhh but then something superhero related happens

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 Jack internally cursing up a blue streak, Gabe seriously annoyed but also thankful in a way that he'll have a chance to try again on solid footing

lol what if one found out who the other was bc they got food poisoning which set in during the superheroing, and left them kinda fucked up the next day? what a lame way to expose your secret identity

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 XDDDDD i feel like i want gabe to be found out first bc he literally has a superhero lair.

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 lol Reaper doubling over and raising a hand to his face, being so freaked out by the thought that if he doesn't get away fast enough he's going ot puke in his mask. XD and 76 offers to help out of actual concern and is waved off as Reaper lets slip it was probably something he ate. Then the next day, Jack hears from Gabe that some food poisoning fucked him up.

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 LMAO jack puts together... rich... food poisoning... similar banter... the whole aesthetic... HOLY SHIT when he comes in to work he starts snooping and finds the lair

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 he'd be pissed if he wasn't really turned on his hot (potential) boyfriend is his arrogant rival

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 >:3c he's pretty psyched that the guy he wants to bone turns out to be the guy who wants to bone him soo why does he keep his own identity secret at this point bc he gotta

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 lol question! does Jack fine enough on his snooping to realize that Gabe doesn't actually have any powers?

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 oooooo yeah like finds all the gadgets and stuff

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 lol what if the nanites are semi intelligent, and he activates the swarm and they recognize him and sort of go into a harmless standby mode...and suddenly he's being followed around by Reaperbeans.

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 YESS they cling to his ankles and chirp adorably

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 he's not a registered user, so he can't give hem any commands, but they spend so long patched into Gabe that his interest in Jack imprinted on them XD

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 XDDDDD gabe realizes someone's broken into his lair and runs in w a pistol at the ready but finds jack surrounded by beans

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 Jack, with a cheeky wave: Hey, boss. Can I get a raise?

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 LOL

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 Jack now thinks he has a perfect excuse to get away from Gabe when stuff goes down--bc of course Gabe is gonna want Jack to go someplace safe--and Jack figures he can just drive a little ways away and put on his hero costume. That plan is thwarted the first time such a situation comes up. Gabe actually comes around to the driver's side door & when Jack rolls down the window, Gabe grabs him by the tie and pulls him in for a kiss, then winks and makes some crack about keep ing the meter running and they'll pick up when he gets back.

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 AHHHHH AHHHHHHHHH jack kinda gapes as gabe goes off to fight evil fuck. how bad of an idea is it to fight bad guys with a boner.

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 XD

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 .... not that it would be the first time lbr

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 he's SO FRUSTRATED bc he can't think straight enough to plan a good excuse for what to say if Gabe makes it back to the car before him, so he's STUCK

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 skcjnseckjn he decides it's..... probably fine if 76 doesn't show up this One Time....... gabe can take care of himself for one fight right? omg jack looking around at the tinted windows, then shamefully sinking lower in his seat and thinking about that kiss as he palms at his groin

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 XD sorry out of context, that seems slightly not the right reaction

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 XDDD

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 but i'd been thinking along the same lines--Jack getting himself even more worked up, so that when gabe comes back, he can't even comfortably drive elsewhere until they deal with his situation

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 YAY they clamber into the backseat and jack is for once REALLY glad gabe is rich bc the windows are impossible to see through from the outside

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 Jack telling Gabe between breathless kisses 'don't you ever fucking leave me like that again' and Gabe is touched, 'cause awww, jack was concerned for his safety! <3 but really Jack just doesn't wanna miss out on the ass-kicking sort of action, either. XD

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 XDDDDDD he gives gabe a frequently interrupted lecture on making an exit like that and how it's NOT FAIR don't DO that JESUS and gabe is just kinda laughing and murmuring "well if it's gonna get this kinda reaction...." omg jack has to wear a driver's uniform right like a nice dark suit

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 PLEASE

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 ahhhhhh gabe gets it all messy and disheveled

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 with the cap

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 YES

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 and white gloves or is it black gloves? prolly black driving gloves.

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 kajncsskjnc gabe gets him the absolute minimum undressed won't even let him take off the gloves jack is like YOU MADE ME WEAR THIS SHIT ON PURPOSE DIDN'T YOU. YOU LECHEROUS FUCK.

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 THE GLOVES STAY lol for some reason, i really like the aesthetic of built dudes in tight black tees and gloves.

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 me tooooo so does gabe apparently

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 he's got good taste in certain things, at least

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 XDD

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 pfft. Gabe makes Jack a custom uniform for the job. Something like this, but with nothing until about the third button. XD It's just a frame for his tits.

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 AHAHAHA YES jack is like ARE YOU KIDDING ME I CAN'T BE SEEN LIKE THIS and gabe is like you. you already put it on without me even asking

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 XD Jack's like, well, yeah, now follow me to that stupid cliche room you have with the fireplace and the bearskin rug

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 LOL gabe commenting casually one day that it's been awhile since he saw his rival 76

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 Jack freezes up briefly but obviously and hopes Gabe didn't notice.

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 ahaha gabe thinks it's jealousy or something >:3c hip checks jack and teases him about it

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 ooh...what if Jack, like, starts jokingly trash-talking 76 to kind of sound out Gabe's opinion of him? maybe even suggests that he's hiding a super power?

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 oooooooo

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 Gabe's wondering where that idea came from, and Jack tries to shrug it off with something like 'well, you hear stuff' and he suggests that, if that was the case, it would have to be something pretty bad for him to hide it. He isn't prepared for Gabe to defend 76 and argue that even if he does have a superpower, maybe he just doesn't know how to utilize it for crime fighting.

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 awwwwwww gabe's jokes that maybe it's something like the ability to make really yummy food or know how the plot of anything is going to end

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 XD Jack kinda basks in it and laughs along as Gabe makes up more and more ridiculous things bc he likes seeing Jack smile. Really, though, Jack is just enjoying these harmless hypotheticals. He's extra affectionate when they have sex later, kissing all along Gabe's jaw and neck, down his arms to his wrists where he turns Gabe's hand to kiss the inside of his wrist and the hollow of his palm. He goes slower than normal, enough that Gabe notices, and reaches out to cup Jack's face and ask him, with a hesitant smile and eyes that show he's trying not to think that something might be wrong, if Jack's okay. And Jack smiles for him, lips stretching wide and tight, eyes crinkling up and it's so strange how that expression almost makes him look like he's about to cry. But he just catches Gabe's hand and pulls it to his mouth for another soft kiss and murmurs into his palm that he's fine, everything is good.

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 QOQ AHHHHHHH I'M EMOTIONAL

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 <3

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 gabe keeps asking jack to move in with him but jack can't have that bc when he goes home is the only time he has to be 76 also he wouldn't be able to bring all his hero stuff with him to gabe's house and still expect to keep it secret

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 he can see that it hurts Gabe a bit every time he refuses, but he isn't ready to explain. the best he can do is just claim that he needs his space (Gabe's counter to that is that Jack can have a whole floor to himself if he wants), or joke weakly that at least this should prove he isn't after Gabe's money.

one night, as they're curled up and Gabe is dozing off, arms around Jack and lips against the top of his head, Jack asks quietly: '...what would you do if I had a superpower?'

Gabe stirrs and hugs him a bit tighter. 'somethin' you need t tell me, Jackie?'

He's so close to saying it. In that moment, with Gabe's warm arms holding him close, he feels safe. But the old fear comes back, and the knowledge that he's been lying by omission, and suddenly, this place he's found for himself seems terrifyingly fragile. 'Just a hypothetical,' he lies, pressing his face against Gabe's chest.

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 JAKXNASKJCNASC AHHHHHHH okay now what we need is reaper and 76 fighting a bad guy together and reaper is in danger and soldier has no choice but to use his power

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 He tries to make it as subtle as possible, substituting 'put down your weapon' or 'surrender' with taunts. something like 'looking for a challenge? come get me.' and then running off so that he can manage where Reaper won't see.

but it's still a REALLY strange thing for the bad guy to do, and gabe didn't miss the change in his demeanor.

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 dcjkasncbk gabe goes after him but 76 snaps at him to stay back and gabe finds himself just... doing it

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 he would do anything for 76. and once 76 is gone, and Gabe has a moment for his head to clear a bit, he realizes that he felt that way once before...with Jack.

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 KJSNCESCNJKAEKCHK

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 oh lord. what if, once Gabe knows about Jack's power, he starts to question how much of his feelings are real or if Jack's power caused him to feel that way.

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 NOOOO first he sets out on investigating if jack is 76

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 if he looks into Jack's past, one of the last things he'll find before Jack appeared in the city is gonna be the camp.

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 qoq

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 maybe Jack was among the last before it was shut down surrounded by scandal. there's a newspaper article where a parent of one of the kids who requested to remain anonymous claims that their child could control people's minds. they ask what they were supposed to do? how could anyone raise a child like that? Once Gabe's ready to confront Jack, he's also angry enough about being manipulated to lead with that. He tosses a copy of that article down in front of Jack with the anonymous quote highlighted, and just says: 'that's you, isn't it?'

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 OH GOD GABE THAT'S JUST GONNA TRIGGER JACK TO HELL AND BACK

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 okay. Jack TOOK CONTROL OF GABE'S MIND TWICE. Gabe isn't being particularly sensitive to Jack's feelings here, but I think he does have cause to be upset. XD

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 true XD but this will not be a fun time for jack's mental health he just kinda freezes and suddenly all the horrible memories from his childhood come rushing back

his face goes white and he nods distantly, staring at the picture of the camp in the newspaper

gabe doesn't know what to do at first. he'd expected jack to put up a fight. he'd thought he'd have to argue.

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 Jack shakily trying to speak in a voice that comes out as a whisper, insisting that he didn't use it, that he didn't use it unless he had no choice. He claps a hand over his mouth at one point, looking like he's about to be sick. Gabe is Concerned.

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 barely containing his anger, gabe asks jack why he never told him. jack shakes his head and retreats in on himself

gabe tries a different tactic. "you're... soldier 76, right?"

jack just keeps mumbling that he never used it, not unless he had to, he didn't mean to...

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 and at this point, Gabe is getting a bit scared, bc he's never seen Jack like this before.

He kneels and looks up into Jack's face, but whatever Jack's seeing, it isn't there in the room with him. Gabe's anger is shredded away as he thinks guiltily about the glossed-over mentions of abuse in the article about the camp. He hadn't looked any further into that, and he's starting to think that he compounded that initial mistake.

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 hhhhhhhh gabe moves to touch jack's face but jack slaps his hand away violently. he looks small and scared.

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 jeezus, what if they used to gag Jack so that he couldn't speak and use his power?

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 oh god DDD: what if his voice is all rough bc most of his childhood was spent silent

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 hey, that means we can knock a kink off his list for this one! :D

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 qoq yeah gabe keeps trying to get him to say something but jack's mouth can't seem to form words

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 first job is now to talk him down. after that will be time to rip him a new one. and possibly break up with him.

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 except as soon as jack snaps out of it, he beats gabe to it and shakily tells him he's leaving.

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 gabe, you've lost the upper hand once again. Gabe tells him oh no the fuck he isn't, he's going to stay there and explain himself and Gabe is gonna let him have it. Gabe actually physically gets between Jack and the door, and Jack is visibly shaking. Desperate, he tells Gabe that he can make him move, but Gabe calls his bluff. 'Do it, then. I'll call you to account for that, too.'

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 "you wanna break up, right?" jack says, trying to sound angry and intimidating but failing miserably. "then we're done. let me out. i'll never bother you again."

sure, that might end up being the end game for them, but gabe doesn't like how jack is rushing to get there

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 'I don't know yet if that's what I want. You fucked up, Jack. No getting around it. And don't think I'm not fucking pissed at you over it. But I'm still willing to hear your side before throwing you out.'

'I can save you the trouble.'

firesonic152 - 11/01/2017 qOq

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/01/2017 'If you're so dead set on leaving, then why am I still standing in your way?'

He watches Jack crumple, and has to keep a rein on his pity. Just because Jack isn't taking advantage right now doesn't mean he was right to in the past.

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/02/2017 'Why, Jack?' He's a bit surprised that the question is the first thing that comes out, but Jack answers.

'He was going to kill you.'

'But once the immediate danger was past, you stopped me.'

He shrugs, looking like a man condemned. 'Once I'm using it, it's hard to focus the effects. It only lasts a day, and it begins to wear off when I'm not around.'

He isn't making excuses, and Gabe presses. 'What about the first time?'

'I didn't know you were Reaper. I didn't want you to get hurt.'

'Have there been any other times you've done it to me?'

'No. I swear.'

ughhh. i think i need to turn in.

firesonic152 - 11/02/2017 QoQ I'M SO UPSET

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/02/2017 it could prolly be worse. we can re-work this bit to make it worse tomorrow, if you want.

firesonic152 - 11/02/2017 oh god. thanks XDDD this one is your fault btw

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/02/2017 how tf is this MY fault???

firesonic152 - 11/02/2017 you made it angsty lmao

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/02/2017 i did no such thing. my thought for big plot point was to have one of the directors of the camp show up in town w more research and tech and a program promising to remove superpowers--sort of like a reverse SEP. and Jack recognizes the dude immediately and gets super aggressive and angry about him.

firesonic152 - 11/02/2017 LOL well we can still do that

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/02/2017 lol tomorrow. also, don't let me forget about Jack being tempted to use the serum or whatevs on himself

firesonic152 - 11/02/2017 OH GOD hugs go to bed XD

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/02/2017 hugs night night =u= <3

firesonic152 - 11/02/2017 jack takes an offensive stance and says, "gabriel. i'm not going to order you. but i'm leaving and if that means i have to fight you, i will."

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/02/2017 FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! What if Jack, like, for serious leaves? Leaves Gabe's house, leaves the whole city. Goes on the move doing his 76 thing. Gabe had let him go thinking they could both take some time, then talk things out and figure out what it meant for them, but Jack just completely disappears on him.

firesonic152 - 11/02/2017 omg QoQ he tries to visit Jack's house only to find someone else moved in there. Jack won't pick up the phone. He next hears about 76 being sighted across the country

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/02/2017 Now the quandary is: use ridiculous wealth to chase down exboyfriend who can mind control him (but who Gabe really misses) or not?

firesonic152 - 11/02/2017 Isn't that always the question XDD At first he's kinda pissed at Jack for just up and bolting but the more he lets it stew, the more he gets worried and lonely can Gabe get kidnapped or something and Jack comes back for him ??

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/02/2017 lol one the local chapters of the gang 76 has been tormenting is all: 'hey, remember when Reaper & 76 used to hang around a lot? Let's grab Reaper & use him as bait.'

firesonic152 - 11/02/2017 LOL ahh what if there's a group that like figured out 76's ability and wants to use it for themselves coughs// talon doomfist is v smart after all

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/02/2017 lol

firesonic152 - 11/02/2017 doomfist like straight up overpowers reaper and holds him hostage

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/02/2017 jack's gonna be soooooooooo pissed

firesonic152 - 11/02/2017 yeppp

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/02/2017 he tried SO HARD

firesonic152 - 11/02/2017 and doomfist like takes measures to make sure 76 can't use his power against them like special noise canceling ear plugs and pre-recorded messages and shit so yeah jack shows up kinda vaguely aware that this is 100% a trap but not really caring he puts up a fight and takes out all the grunts without too much trouble but doomfist is another story lmao and doomfist was kind enough to allow gabe to watch this entire thing. gabe is Dying.

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/02/2017 of embarrasment for having been turned into the bait? did one of hte grunts hang a sign around his neck that read bait?

firesonic152 - 11/02/2017 LMAO he's like beaten tf up and his pride is in shambles and now jack's fucking taking the bait like an idiot doomfist beats jack up and keeps taunting jack about how he's wasting his powers

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/02/2017 .......... what if jack like after the blow up with gabe he can't get rid of his powers but someone could get rid of him

firesonic152 - 11/02/2017 QOQ he just wants to make sure that gabe can get out and then...

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/02/2017 so he just lets Doomfist do what he's doing and kick the crap out of him. lol what if one of the Reaperbeans followed him? And Jack figures it can get Gabe out while he creates a diversion (read: gets himself beaten to death)

firesonic152 - 11/02/2017 qOq gabe hates seeing jack get the shit kicked out of him but he manages to escape with the help of the reap bean and figures now they can get out together but. jack doesn't follow.

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/02/2017 in true dramatic fashion, is there a bomb somewhere, or are we skipping that cliche? XD

firesonic152 - 11/02/2017 LOL like just as he gets out there's an explosion and he thinks jack is dead kind of cliche??

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/02/2017 maybe even Jack brings the bomb and he's gonna take out Talon's leader (& himself, no biggie)

firesonic152 - 11/02/2017 jkdnskcnxmvs HOW DOES JACK SURVIVE

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/02/2017 the reaperbeans flock to his stupid ass. Gabe has to dig him out of the rubble and get him home.

firesonic152 - 11/02/2017 skajdnakf jack is all fucked up and unconscious. gabe drags him home and jack is PISSED when he wakes up ((pissed at the fact that he did wake up mostly))

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/02/2017 XD

firesonic152 - 11/02/2017 gabe greets him with a "WHAT THE FUCK WERE YOU THINKING." jack just glares at him and rolls over, unwilling to say anything to him

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/02/2017 'It's what you thought, too, isn't it?' Jack grumbles. 'That a power like mine shouldn't exist? Couldn't agree more.' He curls tighter into a ball, unwelcoming of anger or concern.

firesonic152 - 11/02/2017 gabe finally realizes that nobody could hate jack's power more than jack himself ? |D

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/02/2017 AND KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE

firesonic152 - 11/02/2017 it suddenly hits him that jack set the bomb he thought it was talon even though it didn't really make much sense

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/02/2017 Gabe feels like someone just knocked the wind out of him. 'Jesus, Jack,' he breathes. He wants so badly to reach out, but this is they first time they've been together since Jack picked up and left town. He isn't sure what's allowed. Hesitantly, expecting Jack to lash out or bolt, he runs his fingers lightly down Jack's arm. When he gets no mor response than a shiver, he sets his palm against Jack's shoulder and strokes soothingly up and down.

firesonic152 - 11/02/2017 qoq

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/02/2017 knee jerk reaction was to finally have Jack break down into tears & Gabe climbs into bed behind him to hold him thorugh it. but. dunno if that really fits

firesonic152 - 11/02/2017 i want him to accidentally tell gabe to back off with his Command Voice and then collapses even more in on himself

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/02/2017 y u do this?

firesonic152 - 11/02/2017 like as soon as he says it and gabe moves back, jack's like "NO no fuck no i didn't mean...."

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/02/2017 if Jack can't control it, then it's going to be an on going problem, though. Like, what's gonna happen when they fuck? Gabe would do him a mischief if he couldn't keep from obeying Jack shouting out deeper-harder-faster

firesonic152 - 11/02/2017 hhhhhhhhh now there's a thought * w *

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/02/2017 oh my god

firesonic152 - 11/02/2017 jack just losing it while gabe fucks him and all his pleading driving gabe insane, something thrilling about the fact that he'd obey anyway but he can't refuse asdjsjbvh

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/02/2017 you are gonna do him a mischief Gabe goes so hard he snaps Jack's spine lol

firesonic152 - 11/02/2017 jesussss i feel like half the problem though is that he just denies his powers altogether so he has no idea how to stop them either HE NEEDS TO FACE HIS FEARS AND ALL THAT

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/02/2017 pls imagine gabe laughing so hard he can't breathe bc jack yells at his avatar in mario cart to go faster as if that will actually work

firesonic152 - 11/02/2017 LMAO AHAHAH

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/02/2017 anyways. Jack can't control his powers. Gabe has seen how much Jack hates his power, and he loves him and is going ot trust that Jack won't turn it against him on purpose, or continue using it once he has--but they DEFINITELY need to have a talk. ((haha remember the one we did where gabe was a useless demon and almost burned down his kitchen trying to make soup for jack and also he had no bowls to put the soup in?))

firesonic152 - 11/02/2017 LMAO THAT ONE WAS FUN and yes they need to talk Okay so Jack and gabe need to talk about his powers and they're finally getting somewhere maybe and then the scientist guy shows up w ideas on how to get rid of someone's power

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/02/2017 AND OFF JACK GOES!

firesonic152 - 11/02/2017 He hates the concept but. In his case it really would make his life way easier. so he secretly makes an appointment with the guy

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/02/2017 AND IT'S ONE OF THE ASSHOLES FROM THE CAMP

firesonic152 - 11/02/2017 YEP oh god the guy like recognizes him too and is super polite and nice and being like "ah child I'm so glad we can finally help you" and shit and all those old feelings of wanting to be anyone but himself come bubbling up to the surface for Jack

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/02/2017 ; ;

firesonic152 - 11/02/2017 he keeps it together for the consultation but afterwards he starts thinking about his parents and falls apart a little

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/02/2017 TT^TT goes out and gets drunk off his ass.

firesonic152 - 11/02/2017 Hhhh Gabe gets a call from the bar to come pick him up

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/02/2017 he keeps asking what set thi off, bc usually Jack can at least cut himself off and make it home (they live together now!!), but Jack refuses to say

firesonic152 - 11/02/2017 HHHH Jack's primary defense mechanism in this one is to shut up. It's what he's used to.

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/02/2017 you're killin me dude

firesonic152 - 11/02/2017 qwq Gabe just wants Jack to talk to him about things. He doesn't know why Jack shuts down and won't say anything He understands Jack's whole self-loathing deal but this particular defense mechanism is such a break from how Jack usually is

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/02/2017 so how does he get Jack to talk? Or does he hear about the supposed cure and seek out the guy offering it when he realizes that the name was one of the ones he came across while looking into Jack's past?

firesonic152 - 11/02/2017 Maybe the guy calls the house to follow up on the consultation and gabe is like WTF

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/02/2017 oooh. that one. so, are we playing this guy as honestly regretful of the way that camp was handled but still thinking powers are impure and best to be avoided/elliminated? or is he manipulative and a bit evil?

just curious about whether he would tell Gabe a little bit about what happened to Jack when he was younger.

Jack needs fukkin therapy, dude.

firesonic152 - 11/02/2017 he does lmao I think this guy is evil/manipulative but genuinely believes he's doing right ya know

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/02/2017 lays it on thick with 'Jack's case was severely mishandled when he was younger, but from our talk earlier, it was obvious that he's in the right mindset. We're here to work with him now, not silence him.'

firesonic152 - 11/02/2017 GABE HAS SO MANY QUESTIONS Like "silence him?" What's with that specific wording...

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/03/2017 ugh that specific wording is proof that i'm no longer ay good with braining today. maybe he assumed that Gabe knew about what happened to Jack and he was trying to convince him that this is what Jack wants. i'mma go ahead and turn in night night <3<3<3

firesonic152 - 11/03/2017 Yeah exactly !! That wording tips Gabe off Ahhhhh good night <33

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/03/2017 :sparkling_heart:

firesonic152 - 11/03/2017 gggghh i was thinking again about jack like being forcibly silent as a kid and like. depending on how early it started he could have had so many developmental delays regarding speech skjfnesfkj

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/03/2017 something to check out when i've got a bit more time later today, sort of find a quick reference about how that might affect someone. in the maentime, him being so rude all the time (and preferring texts) might stem from odd speech patterns--if he's mean, people won't want to talk to him so much, and it just became a habit over the years.

firesonic152 - 11/03/2017 QoQ also just. general lack of good social skills ^^;; sometimes he just pronounces words wrong and tends to overreact to being corrected

SuspiciousPopsicle - 11/03/2017 well, yeah. XD like, it just started out as being defensive over his speech, and got worse with time as being rude got him what he wanted: less expectations that he talk to people. aww...poor isolated Jack. ;;

firesonic152 - 11/03/2017 q-q hhh this is the shit I'm studying I'm excited about this LOL Not this specific kind of case obviously but I am taking a class on language disorders and shit

#cornfuck and the reaper #R76 plot ideas #haven't been able to finish any actual stories to share recently but here is this =)

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thefightingbull · 7 years

Text

Two Robins On A Perch

Jason sat on the edge of an abandoned warehouse's rooftop, his legs dangling off the side, red helmet placed next to him while he smoked a cigarette. His intense teal eyes focused on the slow sunrise on the horizon. The black night to one side of him, while creeping morning made its move for dominance; it was a scene he had always been hypnotized by. It wasn't that he thought it was a lovely scene or that he had some fond memory; no, it was just the oddness that caught his attention. That so much darkness and light could be seen all at once made him feel edgy but strangely comforted.

Tonight, he was exhausted and found this place to wind down a bit before going to bed. He pulled a gun-metal gray flask from his black leather jacket and took a swig of his whiskey before taking another drag. He barely noticed the pain in his left arm anymore, though he noticed his hand was bloody, which meant the knife wound had opened up again. At the moment, he didn't care though, he just wanted to sit on this summer morning and not think about anything.

“You really should get your arm bandaged.” Now that was a voice he had least expected to hear. Not that he had been expecting anyone at all, but if someone was going to bother him on a rooftop he would have thought it would be a beautiful blue-bird, or even a grumpy old bat. Taking another drag, Jason casually glanced over at Red Robin, his replacement and according to Dickie-Bird, his little brother. He removed the domino mask from his face. “Would you like me to help?”

“What the fuck do you want, Pretender?” Jason snarled.

“To talk.” Tim stated calmly.

That was always his way, a way that Jason hated, probably because it was so obviously opposite to him. The calm, reserved and genius 'Boy Wonder' the third, had rarely ever lost control of his emotions. He was all logic and no heart, like he was just a robot that pretended to be human. That was another reason Jason liked to call him Pretender. Even at eighteen, the boy had yet to have a complete emotional breakdown. Of course, Dick had often told him of how Tim lost his temper around their baby brother Damian, but to Jason that didn't count. Damian was the spawn of the devil and capable of enraging a snail if left alone with it for too long.

Despite his curiosity, Jason refused to ask what he wanted to speak with him about. Why was this stupid kid talking to him anyhow? He had been made to believe that while Tim wouldn't back down from a fight, he was frightened enough of Jason's 'instability' to ever seek him out on his own. It was something Bruce, Dick and even Alfred had tried to talk to him about.

“Go away, Replacement before I throw you off this fucking roof.” The former Robin growled before taking another drag and looking back out at the sky.

“You're issues with me are exactly why I am here. I can't go on like this anymore, Jason. We have to talk through this, or fight through this. I don't really care which, but I...” As Jason looked up at the young man he was surprised to see the sheer amount of emotion in the boy's crystal blue eyes.

The Red Hood could handle Damian's temper tantrums, he could understand Bruce's cold responses, Hell he could even put up with Dick's obnoxiously cheerful and upbeat attitude but this emotionally confused Tim Drake was not something he wanted to deal with, let alone felt comfortable being around.

“Look, I have had a long night and dealing with you while you are on the rag is the last thing I want to do.” Jason shook his head as he stood up. “Besides, you are killing my buzz.”

“To Hell with your addictions!” Tim growled as he stood, his eyes burning with unshed tears. “Please, Jason, just let me speak and after I am done, you never have to talk to me again if you don't want to. I swear.”

While Jason normally would have laughed and cruelly poked fun of the boy for being so upset, this time was different. He heard it in the young man's voice, the desperation and the heartache. He wanted so badly to throw him off the roof, but instead he found himself sitting back down and taking another gulp from his flask. He offered it to Tim, knowing he wouldn't accept.

“No thank you,” Tim said as he took a deep breath. “I have tried to speak to Dick about this issue between you and I, mostly because I know he initially resented you back when you were the replacement, but Dick has never been hateful like you so he couldn't help much. Then I tried Bruce, but mentioning you...Let's just say he can't help much either. I even tried to talk to Damian because he is as hateful as you can be, but that was about as pointless and hurtful as banging my own head into a wall.”

“Get to the fucking point!” Jason snapped impatiently.

“Jason, I didn't replace you.” Tim spoke softly, his courage almost failing him as he looked to his older brother. “Bruce doesn't replace any of us. He may add to his family, but that doesn't mean he forgets or stops caring about us.”

“Just stop, Pretender. You are driving me crazy.” Jason growled as he pulled out yet another cigarette and lit it while dropping the other. “I don't need the after school special from you, got it?”

“Why can't we move passed this, why do you have to hate me?” The sound in Tim's voice was so hurt, so broken that Jason nearly dropped his cigarette. “I know that we aren't a perfect family, and that I in particular seem so distant and...mechanical, but the idea that you hate me...”

As a tear fell down Tim's cheek, Jason winced but hid it behind taking another drag from his cigarette. Why was this bothering him so much? He didn't normally give a single shit what the Bat family thought or felt, yet watching Tim try so hard to express his pain, his need for acceptance and approval....It brought him right back to his own struggles as being 'The Replacement' and what was worse? Tim was right. Dick wasn't near as hateful or cruel about being replaced like Jason had been.

“Grow up Tim.” Jason snapped, his own guilt ridden anger lashing out unexpectedly.

Another tear dropped as Tim's head hung. “You are right.” He said calmly, pushing all of his emotions away as he wiped his eyes.

This was the real reason he pretended not to care, not to feel much except anger when Damian bothered him. It was easier when people accidentally hurt feelings that they didn't know he had versus purposely hurting him.

“I just thought you ought to know that Dick didn't become a good brother because he liked me better than you, he did it because he was trying to make up for how he treated you, just like Batman has tried to make up for being a terrible father to you. You were dead, you asshole. There wasn't much they could do for you except honor a memory of a boy who they believed would have wished them happiness and ease of conscience.” Tim added before turning his back on the Hood.

“Don't you dare talk to me like that, you little shit! You think you know what we all feel just because you are a genius? You aren't anything but a walking calculator that pretends to feel once in a while! A pretender and a replacement!” Jason shouted bitterly.

With anger Tim turned, his domino back over his eyes, hiding the flashing blue. “You rotten, selfish bastard! What is your problem? Daddy didn't kill the monster under your bed?” Red Robin growled as he approached the still seated Jason. “What the Hell kind of son wants his father to destroy his own soul? What kind of son wishes for nothing but pain and misery to befall his father and anyone close to him? Do you have any idea what it was like to be your 'replacement'? To know that every time Batman was near me, it was only to do a job and nothing else? To know that I would never be his son like you were because he wouldn't let me be. You and Dick and Damian... you all three whine and bitch and moan about your lack of time with him, and even though I have been Robin for the longest time, I am the one he thinks about least. The one he forgets about. The one he kept at a distance for the longest time. Dick was his first, you were the one he failed to save and Damian is his son... but what I am, Jason? Tell me, you seem to know everything! You have all the answers!

“It makes me just a replacement, right? Just a stand in until something better came along. Poor little Red Hood, crying on a roof top because no one loves him, yet at different times you have been asked by nearly everyone in the family to come home. What are you waiting for? A written invitation?”

Jason blinked up at his little brother and found himself at a loss for words. He had heard very similar rants from Dick and Bruce, but they hadn't affected him the way Tim's voice behind them had. He remembered the pain of rejection when Dick first met him, the cold demeanor of Wayne whenever he made a mistake or didn't quite do as well as Goldie. He knew exactly what it felt like to be the replacement and to be the fuck-up. He had never once wondered what it would be like to be his own replacement. What had Bats been like with Tim Drake? It was no secret that it had taken quite a while before Bruce had finally started to open up and let the boy into his heart. Even Bruce had admitted that to Jason during one of their heated arguments.

Tim shook his head and started to walk away. “So long Jason.”

Jason rolled his eyes as he shook his head. “Just sit down and shut up. You got your chance to talk, now give me mine.”

With great trepidation, Tim reluctantly sat beside him. He watched the Red Hood smoke his cigarette and throw back another swing from the flask. He wasn't sure he wanted to talk to a drunken Jason or even sit near him for too long. For all he knew the former Robin just might throw him off the roof as he had threatened to once already.

“Look, Drake, let's pretend for just a moment that I understand you. That I can actually relate and that I might be willing to concede that I have been cruel and unfair to you during this whole process.” Jason felt much better as his mind released some of that anger and rage. He loved alcohol and it made it much easier to try to 'bond' with the Replacement. “Let's pretend that I am sorry, that I do view you as one of my three brothers and that I only call you those names because I am an asshole and fucked up and even though I am still angry, it's not at you or even batman. Just the situation altogether. Let's go ahead and pretend too, that I sometimes see it as a term of endearment. OK?”

Tim frowned as he tilted his head and looked to his older brother. “So we are going to pretend all of this is true, even though it isn't?”

Jason rolled his eyes. “No you idiot, that's the truth. We are just going to pretend that it's not while also secretly pretending that it is. And this stays just between you and me, got it? This conversation never happened and I don't want to hear about it ever again.” He paused as he frowned and then looked to Tim, his dark blue eyes hard and serious. “You know Drake, you are probably the only Robin worthy of being him.”

Tim blinked his surprise at the sudden words. It was a bit heavy and kind of sappy but that's how he knew his brother was speaking the truth. Pretending to be a little more buzzed than Tim believed he was, made it so that his Jason could say the things that his pride and anger wouldn't allow while 'sober'.

“Mind if I sit here for a bit?”

“Don't press your luck, Pretender.” Jason smirked, but offered him his flask once more.

Bruce watched his sons from the dying shadows behind a cowl that made him one of the most frightening creatures a criminal could behold. The sun had nearly risen and with it a sense of hope he had never felt before. Tim and Jason were talking, maybe their words were filled with anger and pain, but they were finally talking. Perhaps his family could be whole again someday. Not right away, but in the future it suddenly felt like more than a 'maybe'.

Moving silently as the bat slowly took back over his body he couldn't help one final thought. He was proud of his sons this morning.

#jason todd #tim drake #batman #fluff #ao3fic #robin #red hood

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