#particularly because I do really like drama wangxian

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Since people expressed interest in the comments about the music I used to write my current fic, I wanted to share some of what I explored to write it. I don't think that you need to know this canon or have read this fic to read this post, though I do spend a bit of time talking about how canon influenced the choices I made. Anyone who has been following this fic knows that it was supposed to be porn, and largely, it really still is for the most part a fic about sex. But I did do a lot of research on music with which I'm frankly not very familiar, and the process was really rewarding.

The fic is Time Signature, if you're interested. This post has a lot about music, electronic music, Chinese music, and music theory, as well as some links to music that interests me and inspired portions of the fic. I don't expect anyone to read anything this long, but it was nice to write it.

Canon. One of my favorite things about both book and drama canon is how in synch WWX/LWJ are cultivation-wise. It’s not just that they can predict the talisman the other will use or the seal the other will cast; they also have the same hunches solving mysteries, the same instincts protecting others, the same ideas about where to go. When writing an AU, it’s important to me to show that synchronization (beyond physical attraction and sex), mostly because I think it’s hot.

In canon, however, WWX revolutionizes cultivation, inventing a whole new method when no one ever thought that possible. I also think this is hot. I also think it’s hot if LWJ thinks it’s hot. Look, canonically, LWJ disapproves of demonic cultivation because it will injure WWX’s spirit and body, but imo there is a reason LWJ is so into WWX, and it’s not just because WWX bugs him. It’s not even just because WWX is really cute and happy and exuberant and everything that’s the opposite of his upbringing. I also like to think that it’s because WWX is a fucking genius, and LWJ doesn't mind the idea of upending tradition and the entire cultivation world as much as it really seems at first that he would; he just struggles with anything that could hurt WWX. So anyway, WWX being revolutionary, in basically a technological sense, is important to me.

Wangxian both play music canonically. LWJ’s playing is noted to be particularly powerful, and WWX’s chosen music is at least one part of his revolutionary cultivation method. Additionally, the song LWJ writes for them is an important plot point. It makes sense that in a modern AU, music is a point of connection, so that is what I chose for their careers.

The final point about canon I want to make in connection to the music for this fic is that this is a Chinese canon with Chinese characters set in China. I don’t think it’s wrong to write AUs set in the west. I have done so, and I think there is value in examining a Chinese canon that has become very popular in the west through the lens of the Chinese diaspora. But I also think that there is a lot of value in a western person such as myself trying to learn and understand the cultural context for a canon that I really like, even if I sometimes get it wrong.

I had decided to set this fic in China because I thought the setting would not strongly feature, which would give me an easy “in” to write something set in a place I don’t know much about. Directly after choosing the setting I chose their careers, which made me realize I needed to do a lot more research—both about the careers but also about the setting--than a fic that was supposed to be mainly porn should have really required.

Music genre choice. Lots of AUs I’ve read have Wangxian’s mutual interest be that they both play western classical instruments. This baffles me, but it’s what I’ve seen, so I loosely started there—ie, I spent some time thinking about what would be revolutionary in western instrumental music, which entailed doing some research on contemporary classical music. There are obviously pioneers in any music genre, folks doing new things, but it turned out I just did not know enough about this genre to really understand what would be truly avant-garde.

I took a step back and thought about the instrumental music I have personally heard that feels really new and different, and Philip Glass was the first thing that came to mind. I first heard of Philip Glass when I saw The Hours, for which he wrote the soundtrack. I still think that soundtrack is one of the most beautiful things I’ve ever heard, and I did use it as inspiration for music in this fic, particularly LWJ’s. More on that later.

Philip Glass is great, but for all his eastern minimalist influences, he is a strong figure in the western paradigm. I did some research on Chinese contemporary instrumental music, but most of what I found had a really western flavor. I think there are two reasons for this—one is that I am in the west searching for articles in English; for all that we like to imagine the internet is universal, search algorithms and search history is actually making it far harder than it used to be to find material with which you are completely unfamiliar. Secondly, western music did in fact have a notable impact on Chinese music, which is fine, it’s still Chinese, but I worried about everything I wrote just sounding like it was about western classical, which is a concern of mine I’ll address more later.

Since I wasn’t finding what I wanted, particularly for WWX, in the “art music” (aka, lowercase “c” classical music, which Wikipedia says is also known as “cultivated music, serious music, or canonical music”—ie, instrumental music with strings, winds, percussion) scene, I realized I needed to examine the other contemporary music, by which I mean everything else. Since I am most familiar with rock, Radiohead immediately came to mind, but Radiohead is a band, and there are lyrics. Though the lyrics are not where the meaning of Radiohead songs lie (the vocals are treated as largely instrumental), if there were lyrics, I’d need to write about them, and I didn’t want to. More importantly, Radiohead is singular in what they do, which makes them difficult to categorize, and this makes them difficult to describe textually. You can say that Radiohead revolutionized rock, or even reinvented it, but that is not really addressing how fundamentally avant-gardeRadiohead is. Describing how revolutionary Radiohead is on paper really is just saying “but they’re different!” over and over again.

What I needed for WWX was a music genre that was revolutionary, an entire school of music that felt cutting edge and frankly, unfamiliar, and for that, I realized I needed my brother.

Some stories about my family. My brother is a music artist who creates electronic music. If you want to understand why it took me this long to get to my brother in this thought process, you should understand a few things about him. First, I love him a lot, but we’re not very close. Second, my brother is probably the quietest person I know—like, idk, LWJ levels of non-talking. Last, I do not understand my brother’s music. I’ve tried! I listened to it a lot! But when I didn’t understand, I asked questions, and my brother cannot explain any of it. He’s an expressive guy! Just not verbally, and as a very verbal person, I have a tough time when people cannot use their words. Like, even asking him what type of music he plays, he’ll say something like, “It’s complicated.” (This is a lie. He’ll look at me and say, “Type?” And I’ll try to explain what I mean. And he’ll say, “I don’t know.” And if I said, “Okay, but if you had to label it?” He’d laugh and say, “Why?” And if I said, “So I can better understand your music,” he’d think for a long time, then look very frustrated, and laugh, and say, “I don’t know?” I think we’ve literally had this exact conversation).

Anyway, possibly through one of these type of exchanges, where I’m grilling him like a school marm and he’s acting like I’m making him take a standardized test he hates (I’m his little sister. Would it be easier to subject him to these horrors if he was my little brother?), I learned that one of my brother’s influences is Aphex Twin. My brother loves Aphex Twin. I . . . don’t. I’ve listened to a lot of him (in order to understand my brother better); I do not like it, and I do not understand it. My brother talks about Aphex Twin like he’s a genius (if and when my brother talks at all). Now, my brother is a very smart guy; it’s not that I didn’t believe him when he said Aphex Twin was a genius, but he also gets . . . swept up by things, and as previously discussed, he doesn’t talk a lot, so I didn’t really understand what my brother meant by this. It took hearing about Aphex Twin randomly, in a couple other places, for me to realize Aphex Twin is a Big Deal. When I looked up Aphex Twin at some point in order to better understand the music my brother makes, I found that Aphex Twin is considered by many to be a genius and also a pioneer. Apologies to all of you who already knew that about Aphex Twin.

Sidenote, my brother’s wife is also a musician, though not professionally. She could have been, considering that she was ranked as one of the top flute players in Texas, and Texas is fucking huge. But no, professionally, my sister-in-law is in cognitive science and linguistics, which you may remember was the career LWJ had in Say More (my fiancée is also a linguist. I also know a few other linguists. My life is convenient for my Wangxian AUs, I gotta say). I mention my sister-in-law because my sister-in-law has enough musical acuity to also recognize that both my brother and Aphex Twin are geniuses, which really helped me to understand that even though I’m not really into this music at all, it really is a Big Deal.

So, I researched Aphex Twin and also went to my brother’s website for his music to find out what the hell this type of music is called, and it turns out there’s not a good name. IDM, which stands for intelligent dance music, is a label Aphex Twin himself famously does not like, and my brother labeled his own music as “acid, techno, house, electro.” Wikipedia said that Aphex Twin is known for techno, ambient, and jungle.

Anyway, into this confusing morass of electronic revolutionary music is where I decided to plunk Wei Ying.

Electronic music. Note for this section that I know nothing about electronic music. I’m writing this post partly to document the journey of discovery I went on to write this porn. I’m not really trying to educate anyone so much as I’m trying to provide insight as to what I researched for this fic and what the references are, in case the fic interested you.

When you really get down to it, music made with electronics has as many genres and styes as music made with more traditional instruments, and the labels are just as confusing (see this Wikipedia list of electronic music genres). For instance, “electronica” just means music made with electronics to some people, but to others it’s more specific. You’ve also got a bunch of other terms: ambient, EDM, techno, house, IDM.

This is all based on what I learned from Wikipedia, but here are some loose definitions as I understand them: There’s ambient, which is really made for background listening, and then there’s EDM (electronic dance music), which is made for active listening—ie, dancing. Within EDM you have lots of genres, such as techno; techno is usually characterized by a specific tempo and repeating structure, and house, which . . . is also characterized by a specific tempo and repeating structure, but the tempo is different. From what I can gather, house is also a bigger tent than techno; ie, many different genres and styles can be house, but techno is more often just techno. (Note that part of the reason all of this terminology has so much overlap is that it originated in different places; techno was invented in Berlin, house in Chicago.) Meanwhile, the list of genres of house is so big that it also has its own Wikipedia page, which is almost as large as the list of electronic music genres.

Note that there is such a thing as “house ambient”, which explodes the entire concept of ambient vs EDM. To aid in that explosion, IDM is described on Wikipedia as including styles such as ambient techo, and “is regarded as better suited to home listening rather than dancing.” What stands out about IDM, and the reason it is featured in the fic, is that it’s known for being experimental. (I’ll add that it emerged in the 90s, which isn’t great for my fic. Whatever WWX is doing, he is on the edge, and 90s music already old to him, even if he’s Aphex Twin’s biggest fan! But alas, my research could not tell me what is happening right now, because you really have to be involved in The Scene to understand what’s new. By the time it’s documented, it’s already really a little old.)

If you are researching electronic music and how it is revolutionary, you’re probably going to get into its evolution and history, since this is a new style of music. And if you are looking into the origins of this kind of music, you’re going to find Brian Eno. And if you’re looking into Brian Eno, you’re going to find minimalism.

Minimalism. Brian Eno is an extremely famous dude. I’d probably heard of him before, but I am very good with big concepts and pretty bad with details, so because I didn’t know anything about the bigger concepts behind ambient/electronic music/minimalism, I never paid attention. Now I’m hearing about him literally everywhere, which is funny, since it’s not like he’s new news. Ezra Klein was literally waxing poetic about Music for Airports just a month ago.

Eno is famous for his pioneering work in ambient music and electronic music, and, as one might expect, electronic ambient. Eno was always doing experimental, avant-garde stuff, and early on he embraced a minimal style. He later coined the term “ambient music.”

What’s interesting about this is that around the same time as Eno was doing this in later 1960s/early 1970s, a new kind of art music was being born in classical circles. This is the capital “M” Minimal music, for which—you guessed it—Philip Glass is really famous. And when you look at Philip Glass’s influences, he was deeply influenced by the minimalism of eastern music, especially Indian and Tibetan music. I couldn’t really find anything saying that Brian Eno was directly influenced by traditional eastern music, but Eno is definitely a fan of Glass and vice versa; they really build on each other.

This ended up just being a very cool intersection for the fic that I didn’t plan. I didn’t end up using it very much, but I must say I was stupidly pleased that the kind of music I was looking into for both of these characters has such deep roots in eastern music traditions. So now let’s talk a little bit about eastern music, specifically Chinese music, since that’s where this fic is based.

Chinese music. I did read a bit about Chinese music for this fic, and I have to say that I still don’t know a lot about it. As stated above, I’m in the west, using my western search techniques, looking for primarily articles in English (though I get Google to translate some things). I also just have a western understanding of music and music history, and it turns out, surprise, different cultures are different, and my entire paradigm for understanding music does not really apply to music from other cultures.

I, and many of us, want music to be a universal language, something that can move through all barriers and touch us in our souls. And it is! I have listened to and loved music not from my culture! But thinking of music as something intrinsically universal and therefore immediately moving to everyone really collapses the rich history of musical tradition all cultures have. Music really is like a language, in that it is built on the culture that creates it; it has its own internal logic; it has style and meaning that depend on the history of that tradition and the understanding of its audience. The brief reading I’m going to do to write some porn will not give me to understand the deep and rich tradition of Chinese music, but also, frankly, even if I turned all my efforts and career to learning and understanding this right now, I still would not have the best comprehension. I don’t even comprehend western music, and I grew up with it. So, forgive me for the paucity of my understanding and knowledge, and please correct me if I make mistakes.

When I think about Chinese music that I know about, I think of two things: modern and traditional. The modern stuff I’m thinking of is stuff like C-pop, but also the things you might hear on the soundtrack for a drama or movie. To me, none of this music sounds that different than western pop or western soundtracks. There are a few reasons for this: one, there are tons of Chinese music that is not reaching me. Two, maybe I just think it doesn’t sound that different because I can only really process what I recognize. Three, in a similar vein, maybe I’m thinking “that sounds like what I know” when really what I know sounds like what I’m hearing. Globalization is definitely doing things to music; if you’re telling me that Asian pop is not influencing western pop right now, I’m going to think you’re crazy, considering the influence and popularity Asian pop has in the US and Europe right now. And four, western music did have an impact on Chinese music, so there’s that.

Obviously, the music genre I chose for Wei Ying falls into the modern sphere, and I certainly looked into the techno/EDM/IDM/electronic/ambient/house scene in China. Articles I found stated it took a little longer for EDM to pick up steam in China, but now it’s definitely going strong. There are some great electronic music festivals, EDM clubs, underground EDM scenes, and EDM music artists (composers and DJs!) in China. Researching these artists was pretty difficult, especially because I wanted Wangxian’s musical discussions to be highly technical, and for highly technical discussions about EDM you are wandering into some very niche spaces. I’m sure such spaces about EDM in China exist, but they’re most likely to be in Chinese.

As I’ve said, globalization is a factor when it comes to cultural difference in music, and I’d add here that because this genre of music is so new, globalization has even more influence, from what I can tell. That said, I do not want to diminish how much influence very specific locations have to do with this type of music. EDM is very tied to clubs (because of the dancing) and performance (because of deejaying, and also because of things like live coding/algorave), which is probably why we get so many granular genres of house—Chicago house is different from Detroit, just for example. Regardless, I stuck with researching a lot of western artists for both the music and musical discussions in the fic, mostly because the music is supposed to be so new and avant-garde that is should not be something overly familiar to the reader, even if they’re steeped in electronic music genres.

Then there’s traditional music.

Traditional music. Traditional music obviously had a huge influence on Chinese modern music. The influence of traditional eastern music on modern eastern music, as well as traditional eastern music itself, is what really influenced a lot of western minimalism of the 1960s and 70s (and onward). To be clear, not all “eastern” traditional music is the same. It’s just as richly diverse regionally as traditional western music, if not more so, given “the east” is fucking huge—though I will say that a lot of people think of western music as pretty monolithic, because folk is characterized as a separate tradition than classical. When you consider ancient western folk, there’s a shit ton of it, and it’s quite diverse. There is also folk music in eastern music traditions, and this is different than music that would have been played in courts and palaces, so there’s really a ton going on.

Traditional music is what people think of when they think of eastern music being “weird,” which is something I really hate. Look, I love being weird; I think weird is cool; it’s great. But weird means unusual, and traditional music is very usual; people who say that just mean it’s unusual for them, and they should think about their words. What they’re trying to say is that traditional eastern music will sound very different for many western listeners, even though, again, we like to think of music as so universal, actually!, because it’s based on math, actually!, and math is so universal!!! The truth is that math is patterns, and patterns are things that your brain recognizes when there are familiar elements, and when there are unfamiliar elements your brain has trouble recognizing the pattern. So, again, music is a way to communicate across all kinds of boundaries, but it is not a universal translator. (But it does make you wonder . . . if Lan Zhan played Inquiry, could Aeneas answer???)

Regarding the unfamiliar math, what we’re talking about is scales. I think most people know this part. Eastern scales are based on math, just like western scales, but the frequencies are divided up differently. Among other things, traditional Chinese music did not use equal temperament, which means depending on what note you start with, the intervals for all the notes on the scale were be different. A way of thinking about this, at least as I understand it, is that a piano is even tempered. All the notes are always the same whether you’re playing in C major or B flat, because you have no control over the frequency produced when you press the key. But if you’re using just intonation—say you’re using an instrument with just a few strings—you’re adjusting the frequency of the note to match your scale. It requires extremely precise hearing and playing ability.

Notation for traditional Chinese music was really different than how I as a westerner understand it. For one thing, it didn’t include rhythm, and for another, it represented more a framework for improvisation than every single precise note. (See Gongche notation, Wikipedia.)

Authorship was also thought of pretty differently. When I googled “great Chinese composers,” the only results I was getting were twentieth century. There are some great ancient Chinese composers, but I had to do a lot of digging to find them, and trying to find someone like the Chinese equivalent of Beethoven is just the wrong approach. When you get right down to it, this really seems to be about the fundamental difference between western individualism vs eastern collectivism and community-based thinking. The individual artist is not the hero of the story. That said, the tradition of the music is very heroic. For instance, the notation allows such variation that the same piece can really build and grow through different artists, much like a story through oral tradition. Additionally, for an artist in an ensemble piece to stand out would really be quite rude; the point is not the individual talent of the musicians but the fundamental beauty of the piece. (This was a particularly hard thing to research, and I mostly found out what I laid out above from various folks answering questions in forums. The best one I found is here.)

Another thing is that harmony, as we think of it, was just not really a thing in traditional Chinese music. The focus was on a melody, which is where minimalism comes in. I’d add here that the “as we think of it” is pretty important, because the western paradigm, including western music language, is not super great at really capturing the nuance of Chinese music. I am terrible at tracking my sources when I research stuff for fic, so I was trying to find some of them now, and I came across this article, which examines the harmony that did exist, but how different it is from what we think of when we think of western harmony.

Despite the reading I did on this subject, very little about Chinese traditional music made it into the fic. I do have Lan Zhan reading a book on traditional music that he hates. This isn’t based on a book I found, but rather to show that Lan Zhan isn’t really into the idea of musical “purity,” that is, ideas of what you should and shouldn’t do with music. That said, I’m not really aware of what strictures around traditional Chinese music are like, or what the Chinese thought is on that. I am aware of how deeply restrictive western thought is regarding music theory, and that’s really where that part of the fic was coming from.

I’d originally had Lan Zhan reading a book on western music theory and very deeply hating it, but I also felt like having him read a book on western theory could reinforce the idea that he’s working within a western paradigm, when really the whole point is that this Lan Zhan very intentionally uses traditional music values. Due to his inspiration from Wei Ying, he’s breaking the norms of how that music works, but he's not necessarily making it western; he’s making it avant-garde. Basically, my inspiration was a Chinese Philip Glass, but I didn’t want to say that because as mentioned above, Glass is still western, no matter his influences. That said, Wei Ying does compare Lan Zhan to Philip Glass and also Tan Dun, who you might recognize as the guy who did the soundtrack for Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, among many other very famous projects.

Tan Dun has in fact been called the Chinese Philip Glass, which is probably not very respectful to Tan Dun, who is himself an incredible (and experimental!) composer. I should note, however, that Tan Dun is Chinese American—he was born in China, but got a degree at Columbia and has lived in New York since. Also, he is particularly famous for marrying Eastern traditionalism with western style, and that really wasn’t what I wanted for Lan Zhan. I didn’t want Lan Zhan to be incredible because he was using western traditions, though he is familiar with them and can make very talented use of them. A lot of very famous Chinese modern composer are famous for that, and that music is still very Chinese. That said, I felt that if I made that Lan Zhan’s style, it would feel like I was saying Lan Zhan’s music is special because it’s western, and that was something I really wasn’t keen on.

In the end, I possibly did the fic and traditional Chinese music a disservice by having Lan Zhan read his book and hate on it. One of the whole reasons western music theory sucks is it can be pretty racist, and that’s what I was trying to avoid, but by conflating my rage at western music theory with eastern, I didn’t really help things much. But anyway, since I’ve now mentioned it, let’s just take a slight detour to talk about what I mean by racist music theory.

Western music theory racism. There’s a scene in the movie Tár that really solidified my feelings on the subject. In it, a student who identifies as BIPOC and pangender, says they don’t really have much use for Bach because of Bach’s misogynist history. The extremely famous director, Tár, played by Cate Blanchett, lambasts the student for “cancelling” Bach because of Bach’s personal life. The student goes on to say that they really just don’t have much interest in cis male white composers, and Tár continues to lambast the student for considering things like gender and race in conjunction with the art.

My understanding of this scene was that it was demonstrating that Tár is a jerk, so full of herself that she can’t listen to other voices, and so steeped in her 18th century western ideas of genius that she’s literally silencing the music voices she’s supposed to support. That was not most people’s reading of the scene, and in retrospect, possibly not the intention of the film. It seems rather telling that not a lot is known about Bach’s misogyny or lack thereof; there are plenty of other “great” western composers that are known to be worse in terms of misogyny and abuse, and yet the film did not make this scene about them. In retrospect, maybe that scene wanted to paint this student as kind of ignorant for cancelling Bach, and Tár really puts them in their place when she describes how art is more important than the artist.

Fuck that. I certainly believe that art is more important than the artist. JK Rowling sucks; that doesn’t mean I will stop loving HP fic and the part it’s played in my life. But the ugliness of the scene is that it hinges on importance of Bach, and look here, shocker, Bach is not essential, just as JKR is not essential if you decide you don’t ever want to familiarize yourself with the literature of TERFs. Even if you want to be a musician and create or conduct music, Bach is just not essential.

He’s pretty important if you want to be a western music historian, true, but when we talk about music there are many, many music traditions that are incredibly worthwhile and important that not only weren’t created by cis white men, but also weren’t ever derived or influenced by cis white men. If you think that you need Bach to know and love and create and perform and conduct music, it’s because you’re operating in a single paradigm that has become yes, universally known, but also for that reason oppressive and imperialist. I am not saying western classical music is bad because it’s imperialist, just to be clear. Bach’s great! Hate ‘im, but I do love me some Beethoven and he was also very cis and male and white and also a complete douche! What I’m saying is that forcing this music tradition on others is deeply imperialist, and it happens all the time.

Anyway, this is really a tangent, because despite my very good intentions to write about Chinese music, as I have stated, almost everything I used for reference was western, even a lot of the stuff I listened to. Maybe I just wanted to acknowledge that that’s a little racist, even though I tried not to be. Maybe I also wanted to hate on Tár and leave you with this interesting video about white supremacy in music theory.

References. Finally, we’ve reached the part I had originally intended to post, which is why I started writing this. Below are the essays and articles I used to write this fic. They were used in three ways: 1) to describe the music (though I also listened to things, see next section), 2) to inform Lan Zhan’s critiques and Wei Ying’s ideas—though I read a lot of essays to do that, just a crazy amount considering how little of the fic is actually about that, and 3) to describe the reading material Wei Ying and Lan Zhan exchange.

Music Beyond Airports – Appraising Ambient Music

This is a series of essays largely focused around Brian Eno’s Music for Airports, though there’s a lot of other stuff as well. I didn’t read everything in here, but the collection is absolutely fascinating. “Ambient House: “Little Fluffy Clouds” And The Sampler As Time Machine” is one of the “articles” Wei Ying sends Lan Zhan; meanwhile, the collection as whole is what Lan Zhan sends Wei Ying when he says he’s been reading about ambient house. Additionally, “Adaptive Game Scoring With Ambient Music” really influenced Lan Zhan’s commentary about arpeggiation, the first time he comments on Wei Ying’s music.

Counterpoint - Tracking in the Music of Aphex Twin

I have some embarrassment about this, given that the article is about counterpoint, and as I have discussed above, eastern traditional music doesn’t really employ that in the way westerners think about it. However, it’s also pretty backwards to restrict Wei Ying to traditional eastern music, as modern Chinese music includes plenty of counterpoint, and part of the point of the fic is that Wei Ying is doing entirely new things that haven’t been done before. Well. They’ve been done by Aphex Twin, as described in this piece, which also describes the first piece that Wei Ying plays for Lan Zhan in the fic, in the car. I did lift the phrase “pedagogy of counterpoint,” and could not decide whether it was long enough or significant enough to credit in the fic.

Unequal Temperament: A Review of Aphex Twin’s SYRO

I can’t remember what I used this article for. It’s an interesting read.

Reverb Machine (the entire website)

This is the site I kept returning to over and over and over again. Most of the articles about electronic really focus on either the equipment used or chords. In the fic, Lan Zhan isn’t supposed to know much about equipment or how any of it is used, because he does not do electronic music. Also, I didn’t really want to talk much about chord progressions, because those discussions are steeped in western music theory, and I wanted it to be possible for Wei Ying to be using the kind of scales traditional Chinese music used, even if a lot of modern Chinese music does use an even-tempered 12-tone scale. However, this site has a lot, and I ended up returning to it again and again so Wei Ying could say an offhand thing about reverb, and to describe certain things.

Notably, Wei Ying’s track, sex.mp3 is loosely based around Trent Reznor’s and Atticus Ross’s soundtrack to The Social Network. I haven’t even talked about Trent Reznor, but he was also someone I considered deeply when I started thinking about making Wei Ying do electronic music. In case you don’t know, Reznor was the artist behind Nine Inch Nails, but in later years he moved on to more experimental things, including movie soundtracks. Side note, movie soundtracks and video games is where a lot of these experimental artists doing either minimalism, ambient, or electronica, or a combination of all three end up, and I ended up reading a lot about video game music.

But anyway, when I saw the Social Network, I came out of it 1) admiring Aaron Sorkin and wishing I didn’t admire Aaron Sorkin because he’s kind of a douche, 2) shipping Mark and Eduardo way too much for my comfort, 3) going HOLY SHIT THAT SOUNDTRACK. Turns out I was not alone in finding that soundtrack totally different and new compared to anything I have ever heard, because as it turns out, it really was—wait for it—revolutionary. I understand that I have now said that about Glass, Eno, Radiohead, and Aphex Twin, but hey, people are doing things in music. Like I get that pop and hiphop artists are revolutionizing their genres all the time, but also it is possible for music as we know it to be redefined, and it’s not just the weird shit you hear that sounds like noise (there is a place for the weird shit that sounds like noise, and Brian Eno is closer to it than any of the above mentioned; I am not dissing weird shit that sounds like noise, because it is part of how we get where we are going).

Anyway, I used this website’s essay about The Social Network’s piece, “In Motion” to describe some of the music and inform some commentary on it.

“East Meets West: A Musical Analysis of Chinese Sights and Sounds, by Yuankai BaoSounds, by Yuankai Bao” by Jiazi Shi

This was the only essay I found that really had the extremely niche technical jargon that I really wanted for the fic that was also about Chinese music. You’ll note that it’s about a Chinese composer who is, again, famous for marrying eastern and western tradition, but this was what I could find in English, and I searched a lot. You’ll note that Lan Zhan’s very specific comment about the key change is something very directly inspired by this grad school dissertation. You’ll also note that this is where I found “Flowing Stream,” including a description of the song and the lyrics.

Music. A lot of fics like this one will link you to a specific piece that the character is playing. I could not do that, because the music in my fic is very intentionally made up. As I have been saying, the whole point is that Wei Ying is pushing the boundaries, inventing music that does not exist. So is Lan Zhan, by the end. I listened to music to inspire the descriptions, but it is not what they are playing, and almost none of it is Chinese. I’d be very interested in finding some Chinese music that is working on some of the principles of minimalism and electronic that these pieces employ.

Aphex Twin – Stone In Focus

Now you’ve come to the climax—this is really the story of how I learned to love Aphex Twin. This piece makes me cry. It’s what I used to describe the piece that has the remix of Lan Zhan’s guqin piece from 12 years ago. Obviously, the guqin piece mentioned in the fic is the canonical piece, Wangxian, but I find Wangian in the drama cheesier than I want it to be, and this Aphex Twin piece doesn’t have the Wangxian part. It’s just the sad longing part before Wangxian enters, but you’ll also notice that there are no flutes! Again, this is not the piece Wei Ying wrote; it’s just what I used for the description.

I didn’t link to the YouTube video I was watching, because the video was a collection and this didn’t come on until after minute thirteen. But that video just has this very sad tunnel that looks like maybe it’s for a train, and the rain is falling, and that makes me cry as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHl4NVytGpo&t=1074s

Book featuring Ndidi O - Hold On, I'm Coming

Wait, you’re saying, this is not electronic/house/ambient at all; this is just a trick to get me to watch one of your favorite wangxian vids! You’re right! But frankly, I was not focused on the genre when describing the music; I was focused on getting the feel of it that I wanted. The opening sequence to this was what I used to describe the track they make love to. (Lan Zhan starts making out with him and kind of slowly humping him to the track with the wangxian remix, but then Lan Zhan demands he plays something else, and this is what I listened to to get the feel for it.)

This pieces is a cover, and frankly, I can’t find out much about it. But just thinking about it turns me on and makes me cry and makes me feel so much, I can’t do it too often.

Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross – “In Motion,” from soundtrack to The Social Network

As noted above, this piece inspired sex.mp3, but I will say that the article I linked above about this piece, as well as the memory of the soundtrack itself, inspired descriptions more than listening to the piece itself. In the fic, sex.mp3 is initially described as “violent.” This was because I didn’t know if the track would play a big part in the fic, and then when it did, I really had to change to both to fit the meaning and the flavor I wanted; it became “anxiety inducing,” and that’s when it became “In Motion.” “In Motion,” however, is kind of too bright and peppy to really be sex.mp3, though I will say I was trying to listen to it just to write this section of the post, and I had to turn it off. It makes me SO anxious.

Philip Glass – soundtrack to The Hours

I’m linking the whole soundtrack, because in the fic Lan Zhan writes several related pieces, which is what this soundtrack is. I can’t even recommend one piece on this soundtrack, because it’s the thing as a whole that really makes you cry, and I can’t say I listened to a specific part of it to describe Lan Zhan’s music, because I know it so well that I only have to listen to a small piece to get all of it.  

Flowing Water, played by Chen Leiji

The part this played in the fic is obvious. I listened to at least five versions of Flowing Stream/Flowing Water, and this is the one that I like the best. However, like all the renditions I listened to, the piece eventually becomes pretty complex and different than I wanted for Lan Zhan. In fact, what the narration describes as “showing off technique” is what I found in all recordings of this piece. I guess if you’re going to play “Twinkle Twinkle Little Star” on YouTube you’re going to do something impressive with it, but I will say this piece is still very close to what I wanted.

I will also say that when I searched for this piece, as well as several other traditional songs, the search results had a lost of stuff that said you can listen to these pieces for tranquility and calm and meditation. I suggest listening to this one as extremely passionate and longing, and you’re going to get a lot more from it. If you resign it to the background, yeah, it’s kind of nice. If you let each note really speak to you, you’re going to really ache in a beautiful way.

Brian Eno – Ambient 1, Music for Airports

After hearing so much about Eno and Music for Airports, I was a little afraid I wouldn’t like it. After all, this isn’t really my genre, and witness how long it took me to find something I liked by Aphex Twin. However, I really needed some inspiration for the piece Wei Ying composes after Lan Zhan breaks them up, so I started listening to it.

The opening to this album is not the heartbreaking thing that the fic describes. It in fact does break my heart, but that is because there is something so sweet about it, lonely and sweet, but also perfectly fine being by itself. This piece is like a child alone in a room, figuring out blocks. This piece is like a cat on a piano, content with its nonsense noise. This piece is what it’s like to be alone and to be fine with that, to love from afar and be fine with that. It still brings me to tears, listening to it.

Radiohead – Everything in its Right Place

Apparently I did not succeed in writing all the music without Radiohead. I will say it happened because I happened to be watching a TV show that just happened to use this song right when I needed something powerful. I was already thinking about them, because my BFF was listening to a podcast about In Rainbows, which explains the children shouting “Yay!” in 15 Step. I really wanted something other than rain to get sampled in Wei Ying’s music, and my brother has specifically used his children talking or his babies crying as samples. Once Lan Zhan knows about A-Yuan, I wanted to use that idea, so I listened to 15 Step again, which is far too peppy for what I needed. But then Everything In Its Right Place came on, and it’s actually way too melancholy for what I needed, but that doesn’t really matter; I just needed to get a few notes described, so this is what I used for inspiration for what Wei Ying plays Lan Zhan after he admits to being in love with him. I will just say that re-listening to this song really does remind me of just how much Kid A means to me, but also how much it means to, like, music. There was really nothing like it at the time.

-

I will end this post by saying that I am not, in fact, a "music" person. So many people need and rely on music to get them through tough times. I mostly don't care about it. I don't have a Spotify account, and I can't imagine taking the time to really curate playlists.

But one thing I can say about me and my tastes is that I'm interested in learning. I want to try new things and hear things that I haven't heard before. To be a little self-aggrandizing, I think that that's a good thing. I think it makes me a better person to work on listening to things that I'm a little unfamiliar with and learn what's great about them. I think I got to do that quite a bit writing this, even though in the end I used a lot of pieces I was familiar with to do the actual writing. I hope that maybe someone reads this and decides to listen to something new, just like I did.

[sonik-kun]

I feel a level of accountability needs to be had amongst certain wangxian stans, particularly in regards to how some of them make us JC fans feel and have us reluctant to engage with the mainstream part of the fandom due endless hounding and bullying..

Yes, for Twitter users, this is about that one poll that is going around and the conversations I've seen amongst moots about the poll..

After reading what I've read this week.. I just need to get something off my chest about how icky this fandom is sometimes and how it has us JC fans feeling all the time. So bear with me whilst I rant. It's a lot to unpack, but it has to be said.. So here I go..

So for those who dont know, there's this poll going around on twitter for best DILF/MILF.. Jiang Cheng and Lan Wangji both happen to be in that poll.

To both the surprise and excitement of us JC fans, JC is doing well.. However.. So is LWJ.. and so, of course, the possibility of them two coming head to head hangs over us..

And now, in the semi-finals, JC is up against Toji from JJK, LWJ is up against Loid from Spy x Family. It seems LWJ is going to win his.. and JC fans, as a result.. Have felt the need to step away and let Toji take the win.. In fear of backlash and what's to come for our fanbase, if LWJ and JC were to face each other in the finals..

Throughout the entire tournament, we already saw a few nasty remarks from these antis, rearing their ugly heads. So we could only imagine what it would be like should the two be put up against each other.

The fact that we as a fanbase feel the need to let another character win so our favourite doesn't recieve any backlash is both upsetting and really telling of what this fandom has been reduced to.

The fact of the matter is, it shouldn't have to be this way. Us JC fans shouldn't have to be afraid to vote for our favourite character, to see him do well and win and to enter his name or his ships into other tournaments. We should be able to enjoy ourselves and have fun, free of any fandom drama and bullying. The same freedom wangxian fans get to enjoy.

I know it's just a twitter poll, and it doesn't really mean anything, but.. It's just so disheartening seeing your moots feel that way about a character they should be allowed to enjoy.. Honestly, the whole thing has just left a bad taste in my mouth.. I wasn't really a fan of LWJ due to some of his fanbase.. But the nasty attitudes I've seen in this poll, amongst many, have only further solidified that stance..

To the kind and normal wangxian fans out there, I am sorry if you are reading this. I'm not tarring you with this lot. But I hope you all understand that this is the position of most JC fans rn. We do not trust most of you because, unfortunately, the toxic but very vocal minority speaks the loudest.

It really is ruining the whole fandom experience and making MDZS look like a joke and I think that is a conversation that needs to be had.

JC fans aren't the only ones who feel this way. Anyone outside of Wangxian feels very alienated by some of the fans of the main ship.

As a result, a lot of us are afraid to enjoy our characters the same way wangxian fans do.

No Wangxian fan would ever feel afraid to enter their fave into a mainstream poll, and rightfully so. So why should we feel afraid? Why can't we enjoy our characters the same way?

Sorry, this is all mostly me rambling, but.. I just couldn't sit there and not address all the ick.. Especially whilst I was having so much fun, seeing JC doing so well and my moots being so happy as a result..

Note: Just to make it clear, in case I haven't already, I'm not upset with the JC fans who chose to no longer vote for JC towards the end of the tournament. Giving all the bullying and backlash we receive, I can see why you wouldn't want him to win for that reason. A part of me felt the same way, too. I just wish it didn't have to be that way.. It just sucks to see that some people can't behave and let others have their fun :(

#mxtx mdzs #mo dao zu shi #mdzs #the untamed #the grandmaster of demonic cultivation #jiang cheng #canon jiang cheng #jiang wanyin #please.. mdzs fandom.. do better

[prince-liest]

thoughts on lwj

[This is me crossposting from CuriousCat again because things are easier to answer on Tumblr.]

I!! Have very mixed feelings about him? He's probably my least favorite of the MXTX protagonists, not because I particularly dislike him but just because as his own character, he's not spectacularly interesting to me. I understand why a lot of people like him, but he's just not my vibe. He has a very poignant and moving personal story arc but it's not the type of story arc and personality archetype that I personally find entertaining the same way that I enjoy the drama and personality of Wei Wuxian, Jin Guangyao, Xue Yang, etc.

That said, I do really like him as a love interest for Wei Wuxian (who is a delightful gremlin that I adore) and I enjoy reading Lan Wangji in the context of wangxian a lot! I think his role both in the relationship and in the overall story arc of MDZS is fantastic and fits extremely well, and wangxian as a ship do give me plenty of feels.

I'm just very unlikely to, like, not be aggressively bored when reading fic from Lan Wangji's POV. He's more of a supporting character for Wei Wuxian for me.

#personal #asks #anonymous #wangxian are extremely well-matched I just don't care about LWJ on his own the way I do every other MXTX protag #I will say that it's very common for me to care more about one person in a ship than the other(s) #but it's a little extreme in the case of wangxian #in contrast hualian continuously shock me by being the only ship in my living memory #where I simply do not prefer one over the other at all #I'm obssessed with both of them

[bronanlynch]

trying to get back into writing weekly roundup posts inspired by @/girlfriendofthegalaxy's tuesday again no problem series so here goes (disclaimer that these are not recommendations, as a rule I don't like recommending things to people because taste is so subjective and also because I enjoy doing analysis on things that are not good)

listening (podcast): making my way through the Gundam Wing episodes of Great Gundam Project. love to hear queer leftists talk about Gundam. it's fun to listen to now that I know more about Gundam, because when I watched Wing myself I knew literally nothing, and it's cool to get extra context but also cool to hear that some of my initial analysis still holds up. has the (un?)fortunate side effect of constantly making me wish I were watching Gundam

also obligatory shout out to Media Club Plus, a Hunter x Hunter rewatch podcast just started by some of the Friends at the Table folks, which I'm also enjoying a lot (this *is* a recommendation. please listen to Media Club Plus)

listening (music): so turns out I mostly listen to music when I'm driving these days, and right now the cd in my car's cd player is Avril Lavigne's Let Go, which is causing me to think a lot about a world in which Fire Emblem 3 Houses was an anime and there could be a sylvix+dimilix amv set to Complicated. also I've been fondly remembering that one wangxian sk8er boi amv that makes me cry every time I watch it

reading: recently finished The Archive Undying by Emma Mieko Candon. lots of divine-mechanical body horror and also a big win for fans of body sharing. very tasty, lots to chew on. I think I would have more to say about this one if I'd read it more quickly, but it was the book that I read a chapter or two every night before bed because that's a load-bearing part of my routine, and I think that meant that I sometimes lost track of some of the plot threads and shifting allegiances & motivations

currently reading The Water Outlaws by S.L. Huang, which I'm not far into but it's fun so far, and. sighs. Rule of Wolves by Leigh Bardugo. unfortunately because I couldn't remember exactly what happened in the books to properly compare it to the second season of Shadow & Bone I committed to rereading the whole series and, well, this could be compelling political intrigue except that's not where the focus is (it feels like there's a lot of words wasted on reiterating who the main characters are but not in particularly interesting ways or ways that show them changing very much, at least so far) so it's just simply not compelling to me

watching: rewatching Hunter x Hunter (2011) along with the Media Club Plus coverage. only on episode 6 so far but man what a good show

with my roommate, we've been slowly making our way through Elementary, because it's good to have on in the background while working on other things, and I do enjoy a competently written mystery. we also watched. uh. the Bionicle movies. those sure are movies that exist to sell toys to children. like, there's stuff in there that could be really interesting. as a kid I probably would've been obsessed. I'm glad I've seen them. they're not ""good movies""

now, this past weekend, instead of making any progress in any of the shows I was already watching, or fic I was writing, or anything like that, I saw a tumblr post that made a very compelling argument for spending the entire weekend watching all 16 episodes of 2021 k-drama The Devil Judge. this is a show for people who watched Tiger & Bunny and wanted Yuri (you know, everyone's favorite T&B side character, the guy who's a vigilante murderer and also a judge and also very sad) to be the main character (it's me. I wanted that.) anyway. this one's gonna be rattling around in my brain for a while. it's a dystopian legal drama with a significant helping of the gothic (gothic is here defined as when you're forced by circumstance to stay at the mysterious big house of an older wealthy man with secrets). it's about, among other things, corporate greed, the rise of fascism, systemic judicial inequality, the self-destructive catharsis of revenge, whether justice is possible in an unjust society, and having an intense homoerotic bond with your hot morally dubious coworker

oh yeah I'm also keeping up with the Ahsoka show because I was cursed at birth to care about Star Wars. I wish I liked it because I love Ahsoka and Sabine as characters but it's just simply not a well-made television show. really suffers from over-reliance on their Volume soundstage and various other issues that seem to stem from uninspired direction, but I've been especially disappointed with so many of the blocking choices

playing: finally getting back into playing Ace Attorney 5, which I paused literally three months ago and didn't pick up again until this week. there are parts of the game I've enjoyed (Athena is a cool character even if I dislike her mood matrix thing both mechanically and thematically; the mock trial conceit of 5-3 is fun; I like Blackquill & his bird) but other parts I do not enjoy (the transphobia oh my god I hoped I was free after getting past the homophobia & transmisogyny in 5-2 and then got hit with whatever the fuck they were doing with Robin in 5-3 please Ace Attorney be normal about trans people I am begging you)

making: we recently got B. Dylan Hollis's cookbook Baking Yesteryear, and made some maple-squash gems from the 1920s. not too much to say about these, they're nice muffins, tasty, not too hard to make. I think I would probably double the amount of cinnamon next time though

drinking: it's nog season which means it's time for the return of one of my favorite seasonal mixed drinks: eggnog (pumpkin, since that felt the Most seasonal) with a splash of Kraken spiced rum

writing: picking away at editing my t4t yurivain fic that was originally meant to be for Fire Emblem Trans Week, which was like a month and a half ago now. it's fine. everything is fine. anyway here's some lines:

“This feels like a test,” said Sylvain. “Is that your subtle way of telling me that I have to order our next round?” “Depends,” Yuri said, suppressing a laugh at the expression on Sylvain’s face, like he’d forgotten an answer during an exam. “What would you order for me?”

#sorry this is like a billion words long #everyone else who does these seems to be able to do concise summaries but i have a chronic inability to shut the fuck up. so. here we are #dreaming.txt #i used to have a tag for these but i cannot fucking remember what it was #weekly media roundup post

[petitjams]

🎶✨when you get this you have to put 5 songs you actually listen to, publish, then send this ask/tag 10 of your favourite followers (non-negotiable, positivity is cool) 🎶✨

tagged by @i-sveikata thank you!! i'm gonna cheat a bit since a lot of the songs i listen to are from musicals or osts and i can't exactly choose my fave easily... apologising in advance, i don't have the most unique or interesting taste in music but hey, i like what i like!

Hospital Playlist (Season 1 & 2 OST)

Hospital Playlist is hands down my ultimate comfort drama and I love how they incorporate music into the story. The songs are equally comforting to me so it's just become the playlist of my day to day life

2. Frozen: The Broadway Musical

If I'm being completely honest I loved the disney movie and I love the musical even more, the story makes me emotional and the changes they made from the movie are amazing

3. 演員 (Actor) by Joker Xue Zhi Qian

I love all of Joker Xue's songs, particularly this one and 你还要我怎样 (What else do you want me to do?) because of the extreme yearning in the lyrics and the pleading way that he sings it, also his voice is just beautiful

4. 忘羡 (WangXian) from the Mo Dao Zu Shi Audio Drama

many versions of wangxian's love song exists but this is my favourite official one because 1) the audio drama isn't censored so this song is officially and explicitly about their love 2) the singers did an amazing job 3) the lyrics drive me crazy...

5. Angel Baby by Troye Sivan

gotta start off by saying I don't really listen to troye sivan like at all? but i found this song on a bunch of vegaspete playlists and i listen to it a lot because it reminds me of them

tagging (sorry if you've alr been tagged!) @wifiwuxians, @pranrakul, @atlasdaily, @saboala, @naerhenvel (<3), @shownusfool, @eggtartes, @boocatley, @tragedyorcomedy, @jetableange

no pressure btw <3

#jam spreads #is that my talking tag? i never come on here anymore

[rainbowsky]

Hi 🌈 ☁️,

Have a nice day.

This ques is not about Yizhan.Reply only its ok. Do you watch BL dramas ? Yes then which one is your most favorite one? ( Except CQL)

Hi, Anon, I hope you have a nice day too! 😊

No, I don't really watch BL dramas. CQL is the only one I've ever seen, and I don't have any lined up for viewing in the foreseeable future. I'm curious about KinnPorsche just because of some of the clips I've seen, but not enough to actually get around to watching it.

However, I did LOVE The Untamed. I've watched the series 5 times, and I'm likely to watch it again at some point. How can any turtle not feel that way about it? 😊

I have read both MDZS and TGCF and enjoyed them both for the most part. I don't have any plans to read more BL. I'm not against reading it, just not particularly interested.

I do read a fair bit of fan fiction. I enjoy fan fiction. You can find my rec lists here:

GGDD Fic

WangXian Fic

#personal #ask

[cqlfeels]

I was scrolling photos of asian men with elegant make up in ancient times and I was thinking at Wangxian wearing traditional chinese make up. I'm not asian, so maybe I'm saying some blasphemy. Men of high class were used to wear make up, right?

I'm curious to know about this tradition and if there were gender roles for using make up back then.

I don't remember men from mdzs using make up (expect mxy) (and of course the red eyeliner used on wwx in the drama 🤣). Wwx bought make up but not for himself, he gave it away to some random ladies. But I would like to imagine both Wangxian with make up, with different colors or technique perhaps. What do you think?

I'm not the best person to ask this to (hanfu-centric blogs such as @ziseviolet could probably say something worthwhile) because I've never really researched this like, at all. My understanding of it - acquired via osmosis - is that outside of very specific things such as theater, historically in most periods when it was fashionable for men to wear make up (and not all periods were pro-makeup), it was usually meant to be a fairly subtle thing - think rice powder and lipbalm more than colorful designs.

The novel at least seems to assume that the ahistorical setting in which MDZS takes place it's unusual for men to wear makeup. MXY at any rate seems to wear outright theatrical makeup and would probably be seen as Weird anyway, but I get the impression even subtler makeup seems to have fallen out of flavor? (Though not the wearing of flowers by men, which should technically help us date attitudes to male beauty but doesn't actually, because again - MDZS isn't trying to be historical.)

Having said all of this, I'm all for makeup as a form of art, so I think there's a whole lot of fun to be had with it!!! I think it'd be particularly cool to have different sects have different make up fashions that go with their aesthetics! I don't actually know a lot about makeup so I couldn't come up with concepts even if I tried, but I'd be so interested to see people's headcanons for something like that!

#my grandparents were chinese but my knowledge of anything traditional is all over the place 😅 #but make up pretty #makes brain go brr

[winepresswrath]

I think I might be a tsundere for MXTX romances because I keep saying I don't care for them and read her books for everything but the romance, but I'm also weirdly attached to all her canon pairings???

You may be! I have a weird relationship to all of them that basically goes:

Scum Villain: her earliest and IMO least polished work, features both my least favourite and favourite of her canon ships, would not recommend to anyone without a small list of warnings, my absolute favourite of her novels.

Heaven's Official Blessing: I genuinely think this is her best novel, and it features my favourite of her main couples by a significant margin. Takes up comparatively little space in my brain compared to the other two.

MDZS: neither her best work nor my favourite of her couples. I'm completely obsessed.

#like yes cql helps with that #particularly because I do really like drama wangxian #but even aside from that it just does so many things I like! #It keeps me coming back #like did you know that Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian in the novel take turns rejecting both each other's thanks and apologies until they've #done the whole quadrant? #ahhh!!! how dare she #or oh man there's this great moment where WWX is running after Jiang Cheng #when he thinks Jiang Cheng has left him to go after his parents' bodies #and it's his lowest moment in the first life up to that point #it explicitly comes closer to breaking him than anything else has so far! #and a) that never being resolved in terms of him figuring out why jc did it while b) Wen Ning is the person who #rescues him from that despair #delicious

[pumpkinpaix]

Hi! Loving your meta on suibian :)) Just wondering what were your frustrations with cql, especially considered you've watched this in multiple mediums? (I've only watched cql)

Hi anon! thank you so much!

Oh boy, you’ve unlocked a boatload of hidden dialogue, are you ready?? :D (buckle up it’s oof. Extremely Long)

@hunxi-guilai please consider this my official pitch for why I think the novel is worth reading, if only so you can enjoy the audio drama more fully. ;)

a few things before I get into it:

I don’t want to make this a 100% negative post because I really do love CQL so much! So I’m going to make it two parts: the changes that frustrated me the most and the changes I loved the most re: CQL vs novel. (again, don’t really know anything about donghua or manhua sorry!!) Sound good? :D

this will contain spoilers for the entirety of CQL and the novel. just like. All of it.

talking about the value of changes in CQL is difficult because I personally don’t know what changes were made for creative reasons and what changes were made for censorship reasons. I don’t think it’s entirely fair to evaluate the narrative worth of certain changes when I don’t know what their limitations were. It’s not just a matter of “gay content was censored”; China also has certain censorship restrictions on the portrayal of the undead, among other things. I, unfortunately, am not familiar enough with the ins and outs of Chinese censorship to be able to tell anyone with certainty what was and wasn’t changed for what reason. So I guess just, take whatever my opinions are with a grain of salt! I will largely avoid addressing issues related to how explicitly romantic wangxian is, for obvious reasons.

OKAY. In order to impose some kind of control on how much time I spend on this, I’m going to limit myself to four explicated points in each category, best/worst. Please remember that I change my opinions constantly, so these are just like. the top contenders at this specific point in my life. Starting with the worst so we can end on a positive note!

Henceforth, the novel is MDZS, CQL is CQL.

CQL’s worst crimes, according to cyan:

1. Polarizing Wei Wuxian and Jin Guangyao on the moral spectrum

I’ve heard rumors that this was a censorship issue, but I have never been able to confirm or deny it, so. Again, grain of salt. 

The way that CQL reframed Wei Wuxian and Jin Guangyao’s character arcs drives me up the wall because I think it does a huge disservice to both of them and the overarching themes of the story. Jin Guangyao is shown to be responsible for pretty much all the tragedy post-Sunshot, which absolves Wei Wuxian of all possible wrongdoing and flattens Jin Guangyao into a much less interesting villain.

What I find so interesting about MDZS is how much it emphasizes the role of external forces and situations in determining a person’s fate: that being “good” or “righteous” at heart is simply not enough. You can do everything with all the best intentions and still do harm, still fail, still lose everything. Even “right” choices can have terrible consequences. Everyone starts out innocent. “In this world, everyone starts without grievances, but there is always someone who takes the first blow.”

It matters that Wei Wuxian is the one who loses control and kills Jin Zixuan, that his choices (no matter how impossible and terrible the situation) had consequences because the whole point is that even good people can be forced into corners where they do terrible things. Being good isn’t enough. You can do everything right, make every impossible choice, and fail. You can do the right thing and be punished for it. Maybe you did the right thing, but others suffer for your actions. Is that still the right thing? Is it your fault? Is it? By absolving Wei Wuxian of any conceivable blame, it really changes the narrative conclusion. In MDZS, even the best people can do incomprehensible harm when backed into corners, and the audience is asked to evaluate those actions with nuance. Is a criminal fully culpable for the harm they do when their external circumstances forced them into situations where they felt like they had no good choices left?

Personally, I feel like the novel asks you to forgive Wei Wuxian his wrongs, and, in paralleling him with Jin Guangyao, shows how easily they could have been one another. Both of them are extraordinarily talented sons of commoners; the difference lies in what opportunities they were given as they were growing up and how they choose to react to grievances. Wei Wuxian is adopted early on into the head family of a prominent sect and treated (more or less—not going to get into it) like a son. Jin Guangyao begs, borrows, steals, kills for every scrap of prestige and honor he gets and understands that his position in life is, at all points, extraordinarily unstable. Wei Wuxian doesn’t take his grievances to heart, but Jin Guangyao does.

To be clear, I don’t think the novel places a moral value on holding grudges, if that makes sense. I think MDZS only indicates that acts of vengeance always lead to more bloodshed—that the only escape is to lay down your arms, no matter how bitter the taste. Wei Wuxian was horribly wronged in many ways, and I don’t think I would fault him for wanting revenge or holding onto his anger—but I do think it’s clear that if he did, it would destroy him. It destroys Jin Guangyao, after all.

(It also destroys Xue Yang, and I think the parallel actually also extends to him. Yi City, to me, is a very interesting microcosm of a lot of broader themes in MDZS, and I have a lot of Thoughts on Xue Yang and equivalent justice, etc. etc. but. Thoughts for another time.)

Wei Wuxian is granted a happy ending not because he is Good, but because public opinion has changed, because there’s a new scapegoat, because he is protected by someone in power, because he lets go of the past, and because the children see him for who he is. I really do think that the reason MDZS and CQL have a hopeful ending as opposed to a bleak one hinges on the juniors. We are shown very clearly throughout the story how easily and quickly the tide of public opinion turns. The reason we don’t fear that it’s going to happen to Wei Wuxian again (or any other surviving character we love) is, I think, because the juniors, who don’t lose their childhoods to war, have the capacity to see past their parents’ prejudices and evaluate the actions of the people in front of them without having their opinions clouded by intense trauma and fear. They are forged out of love, not fire.

In CQL however, it emphasizes that Wei Wuxian is Fundamentally Good and did No Wrong Ever, so he deserves his happy ending, while Jin Guangyao is Fundamentally Bad and Responsible For Everything, so he got what was coming to him (even if we feel bad for him maybe). That’s not nearly as interesting or meaningful. 


(One specific change to Jin Guangyao’s timeline of evil that I find particularly vexing, not including the one I will discuss in point 2, is changing when Jin Rusong was conceived. In the novel, Qin Su is supposedly already pregnant by the time they get married, and that matters a WHOLE LOT when evaluating Jin Guangyao’s actions, I think.)

2. Wen POWs used as target obstacles at Baifeng Mountain

I know the first point was “here’s an overarching plot change that I think deeply impacts the narrative themes” and this second one is “I despise this one specific scene detail so much”, but HEAR ME OUT. It’s related to the first point! (tbh, most things are related to the first point)

Personally, I think this one detail character assassinates like. almost everyone in attendance, but most egregiously in no particular order: Jin Guangyao, Jin Zixuan (and by extension, Jiang Yanli), Wei Wuxian, Lan Wangji and Lan Xichen.

First, I think it’s a cheap plot device that’s obviously meant to enhance Jin Guangyao’s ~villainy while emphasizing Wei Wuxian’s growing righteous anger, but it fails so spectacularly, god, I literally hate this detail so much lmao. I’ll go by character.

Jin Guangyao: I get that CQL is invested in him being a ~bad person~ or whatever, but this is such a transparently like, cartoon villain move that lacks subtlety and elegance. Jin Guangyao is very dedicated to being highly diplomatic, appeasing, and non-threatening in his bid for power. He manipulates behind the scenes, does his father’s dirty work, etc. but he always shows a gentle, smiling face. This display tips his hand pretty obviously, and even if it were at the behest of his father, there’s literally no reason for him to be so “ohohoho I’m so evil~” about it—if anything, this would only serve to drive his sympathizers away. It’s a stupid move for him politically, and really undercuts his supposed intelligence and cleverness, in my personal opinion.

Jin Zixuan: yes, he is arrogant and vain and likes to show off! But putting his ego above the safety of innocent people? Like, not necessarily OOC, but it sure makes him much less sympathetic in my eyes. I find it hard to believe that Jiang Yanli would find this laudable or acceptable, but she’s given a few shots where she smiles with some kind of pride and it’s like. No! Do not do my queen dirty like this. She wouldn’t!

Wei Wuxian: where do I start! WHERE DO I START. Wei Wuxian is shown to be “righteously angry” about this, but steps down mutinously when Jiang Cheng motions him back. He looks shocked and outraged at Jin Zixuan for showing off with no concern for the safety of the Wen POWs, only to like, two seconds later, do the exact same thing, but worse! And at the provocation of Jin Zixun, no less! *screams into hands* The tonal shift is bizarre! We’re in this really tense ~moral quandary~, but then he flirts with Lan Wangji for a second (tense music still kinda playing?? it’s awful. I hate it), and then does his trickshot. You know! Putting all these people he’s supposedly so concerned about at risk! To one-up Jin Zixuan! It’s nonsensical. It’s such a conflict of priorities. This is supposed to make him seem honorable and cool, I guess? But it mostly just makes him look like a performative hypocrite. :///

Lan Wangji: I cannot believe that Lan Wangji saw this and did not immediately walk out in protest.

Lan Xichen: this is just one part of a larger problem with Lan Xichen’s arc in CQL vs MDZS, where his character development was an unwitting casualty of both wangxian censorship and CQL’s quest to demonize Jin Guangyao. One of the prevailing criticisms I see of Lan Xichen’s character is that he is a “centrist”, that he “allows bad things to happen through his inaction and desire to avoid conflict”, and that he is “stupid and willfully blind to Jin Guangyao’s faults”, when I don’t think any of this is supported by evidence in the novel whatsoever. Jin Guangyao is a subtle villain! He is a talented manipulator and liar! Even Wei Wuxian says it in the novel!

(forgive my rough translations /o\)

Chapter 49, as Wei Wuxian (through Empathy with Nie Mingjue’s head) listens to Lan Xichen defend Meng Yao immediately following Wen Ruohan’s assassination:

魏无羡心中摇头：“泽芜君这个人还是……太纯善了。”可再一想，他是因为已知金光瑶的种种嫌疑才能如此防备，可在蓝曦臣面前的孟瑶，却是一个忍辱负重，身不由己，孤身犯险的卧底，二人视角不同，感受又如何能相提并论？

Wei Wuxian shook his head to himself: “This Zewu-jun is still…… too pure and kind.” But then he thought again—he could only be so guarded because he already knew of all of Jin Guangyao’s suspicious behavior, but the Meng Yao before Lan Xichen was someone who had had no choice but to suffer in silence for his mission, who placed himself in grave danger, alone, undercover. The two of them had different perspectives, so how could their feelings be compared?

Chapter 63, after Wei Wuxian wakes up in the Cloud Recesses, having been brought there by Lan Wangji:

他不是不能理解蓝曦臣。他从聂明玦的视角看金光瑶，将其奸诈狡猾与野心勃勃尽收眼底，然而，如果金光瑶多年来在蓝曦臣面前一直以伪装相示，没理由要他不去相信自己的结义兄弟，却去相信一个臭名昭著腥风血雨之人。

It wasn’t that he couldn’t understand Lan Xichen. He had seen Jin Guangyao from Nie Mingjue’s perspective, and so had seen all of his treacherous and cunning obsession with ambition. However, if Jin Guangyao had for all these years only shown Lan Xichen a disguise, there was no reason for [Lan Xichen] to believe a famously violent person [Wei Wuxian] over his own sworn brother.

Lan Xichen, throughout the story, is being actively lied to and manipulated by Jin Guangyao. His only “mistake” was being kind and trying to give Meng Yao, someone who came from a place of great disadvantage, the benefit of the doubt instead of immediately dismissing him as worthless due to his birth or his station in life. Lan Xichen sees Meng Yao as someone who was forced to make impossible choices in impossible situations—you know, the way that we, the audience, are led to perceive Wei Wuxian. The only difference is that the story that we’re given about Wei Wuxian is true, while the story that Lan Xichen is given about Meng Yao is… not. But how would have have known?

The instant he is presented with a shred of evidence to the contrary, he revokes Jin Guangyao’s access to the Cloud Recesses, pursues that evidence to the last, and is horrified to discover that his trust was misplaced.

Lan Xichen’s willingness to consider different points of view is integral to Wei Wuxian’s survival and eventual happiness. Without Lan Xichen’s kindness, there is no way that Wei Wuxian would have ever been able to clear his name. Everyone else was calling for his blood, but Lan Wangji took him home, and Lan Xichen not only allowed it, he listened to and helped them. To the characters of the book who are not granted omniscient knowledge of Wei Wuxian’s actions and circumstances, there is literally no difference between Wei Wuxian and Jin Guangyao. Lan Xichen is being incredibly fair when he asks in chapter 63:

蓝曦臣笑了，道：“忘机，你又是如何判定，一个人究竟可信不可信？”

他看着魏无羡，道：“你相信魏公子，可我，相信金光瑶。大哥的头在他手上，这件事我们都没有亲眼目睹，都是凭着我们自己对另一个人的了解，相信那个人的说辞。

“你认为自己了解魏无羡，所以信任他；而我也认为自己了解金光瑶，所以我也信任他。你相信自己的判断，那么难道我就不能相信自己的判断吗？”

Lan Xichen laughed and said, “Wangji, how can you determine exactly who should and should not be believed?”

He looked at Wei Wuxian and said, “You believe Wei-gongzi, but I believe Jin Guangyao. Neither of us saw with our own eyes whether Da-ge’s head was in his possession. We base our opinions on our own understandings of someone else, our belief in their testimony.

“You think you understand Wei Wuxian, and so you trust him; I also think I understand Jin Guangyao, so I trust him. You trust your own judgment, so can’t I trust my own judgment as well?”

But he hears them out, examines the proof, and acts immediately.

I really do feel like this aspect of Lan Xichen kind of… became collateral damage in CQL. Because Jin Guangyao is so much more publicly malicious, Lan Xichen’s alleged “lack of action” feels much less understandable or acceptable.

It is wild to me that in this scene, Lan Xichen reacts with discomfort to the proceedings, but has nothing to say to Jin Guangyao about it afterwards and also applauds Wei Wuxian’s archery. (I could talk about Nie Mingjue here as well, but I would say Nie Mingjue and Lan Xichen have very different perspectives on morality, so this moment isn’t necessarily OOC for NMJ, but I do think is very OOC for LXC.) This scene (among a few others that have Jin Guangyao being more openly “evil”) makes Lan Xichen look like a willfully blind bystander by the end of the story, but having him react with any action would have been inconvenient for the plot. Thus, he behaves exactly as he did in the book, but under very different circumstances. It reads inconsistently with the rest of his character (since a lot of the beats in the novel still happen in the show), and weakens the narrative surrounding his person.

None of these overt displays of cruelty or immorality happen in the book, so it makes perfect sense that he doesn’t do or suspect anything! Jin Guangyao is, as stated, perfectly disguised towards Lan Xichen. You can’t blame him for “failing to act” when someone was purposefully keeping him in the dark and, from his perspective, there was nothing to act upon.

This scene specifically is almost purely lighthearted in the novel! If you take out the Wen POWs, this just becomes a fun scene where Wei Wuxian shows off, flirts with Lan Wangji, gets into a pissing match with Jin Zixuan, and is overall kind of a brat! It’s great! I love this scene! The blindfolded shot is ridiculous and over-the-top and very cute!

I know this is a lot of extrapolation, but the whole scene is soured for me due to you know. *gestures upwards* Which is really a shame because it’s one of my favorite silly scenes in the book! Alas! @ CQL why! ;A;

3. Lan Xichen already being an adult and sect leader at the start of the show

This is rapidly becoming a, “Lan Xichen was Wronged and I Have the Receipts” essay (oh no), but you know what, that’s fine I guess! I never said I was impartial!

CQL makes Lan Xichen seem much older and more experienced than he is in the novel, though we’re not given his specific age. In the novel, he is not sect leader yet when Wei Wuxian and co. arrive at the Cloud Recesses for lectures. His father, Qingheng-jun, is in seclusion, and his uncle is the de facto leader of the sect. Lan Xichen does not become sect leader until his father dies at the burning of the Cloud Recesses. Moreover, my understanding of the text is that he is at most 19 years old when this happens. Wen Ruohan remarks that Lan Xichen is still a junior at the beginning of the Sunshot Campaign in chapter 61. (If someone has a different interpretation of the term 小辈, please correct me.) In any case! Lan Xichen is young.

Lan Xichen ascends to power under horrific circumstances: he is not an adult, his father has just been murdered, his uncle seriously injured, his brother kidnapped, and his home burnt to the ground. He is on the run, alone! Carrying the sacred texts of his family and trying to stay alive so his sect is not completely wiped out on the eve of war! He is terrified, inexperienced, and unprepared!

You know, just like Jiang Cheng, a few months later!

I see a lot of people lambasting Lan Xichen for not stepping up to protect the Wen remnants post-Sunshot, but I’m always flummoxed by the accusations because I don’t see criticisms of Jiang Cheng with remotely the same vitriol, even though their political positions are nearly identical:

they are both extraordinarily young sect leaders who came to power before they expected to through incredible violence done to their families

because of this, they are in very weak political positions: they have very little experience to offer as evidence of their competence and right to respect. if they are considered adults, they have only very recently come of age.

Jin Guangshan, who is rapidly and greedily taking the place of the Wen clan in the vacuum of power, is shown to be more than willing to mow people down to get what he wants—and he has the power to do so.

both Yunmeng Jiang and Gusu Lan were crippled by the Wen clan prior to Sunshot. And they just fought a war that lasted two and a half years. they are hugely weakened and in desperate need of time to rebuild, mourn, etc. both Jiang Cheng and Lan Xichen are responsible for the well-being of all of these people who are now relying upon them.

I think it’s very obvious that Jiang Cheng is in an impossible situation because he wears his fears and insecurities on his face and people in power (cough Jin Guangshan) prey upon that, while we, as the audience, have a front row seat for that whole tragedy. We understand his choices, even if they hurt us.

Why shouldn’t Lan Xichen be afforded the same consideration?

I really do think that because he’s presented as someone who’s much more composed and confident in his own abilities than Jiang Cheng is, we tend to forget exactly what pressures he was facing at the same time. We just assume, oh yes, of course Lan Xichen has the power to do something! He’s Lan Xichen! The First Jade! Isn’t he supposed to be Perfectly Good? Why isn’t he doing The Right Thing?

I think this is exacerbated by CQL’s decision to make him an established sect leader at the start of the show with several years of experience under his belt. We don’t know his age, but he is assumed to be an Adult. This gives him more power and stability, and so it seems more unacceptable that he does not make moves to protect the Wen remnants, even if in essence, he and Jiang Cheng’s political positions are still quite similar. He doesn’t really have any more power to save the Wen remnants without placing his whole clan in danger of being wiped out again, but CQL implies that he does, even if it isn’t the intention of the change.

It does make me really sad that this change also drives a further thematic divide between Lan Xichen and the rest of his generation. Almost everyone in that generation came of age through a war, which I think informs the way their tragedies play out, and how those tragedies exist in contrast to the juniors’ behavior and futures. Making Lan Xichen an experienced adult aligns him with the generation prior to him, which, as we’re shown consistently, is the generation whose adherence to absolutism and fear ruined the lives of their children. But Lan Xichen is just as much a victim of this as his peers.

(the exception being maybe Nie Mingjue, but it’s complicated. I think Nie Mingjue occupies a very interesting position in the narrative, but like. That’s. For another time! this is. already so far out of hand. oh my god this is point three out of eight oh nO)

(yet another aside because I can’t help myself: can you believe we were robbed of paralleling scenes of Jiang Cheng and Lan Xichen’s coronations? the visual drama of that. the poetic cinema. it’s not in the book, but can you IMAGINE. thank u @paledreamsblackmoths​ for putting this image into my head so that I can suffer forever knowing that I’ll never get it.)

I said I wasn’t going to talk at length about any changes surrounding Wangxian’s explicit romance for obvious reasons, but I will at least lament here that because a large percentage of Lan Xichen’s actions and character beats are directly in relation to Lan Wangji’s love for Wei Wuxian, he loses a lot of both minor and major moments to the censors as well. Many of the instances when he encourages Lan Wangji to talk to Wei Wuxian, when he indulges in their relationship etc. are understandably gone. But the most significant moment that was cut for censorship reasons I think is when he loses his temper with Wei Wuxian at the Guanyin temple and lays into him with all the fury and terror he felt for his brother’s broken heart for the last thirteen years.

Lan Xichen is only shown to express true anger twice in the whole story, both times at the Guanyin temple: first against Wei Wuxian for what he perceives as gross disregard for his little brother’s convictions, and second against Jin Guangyao for his massive betrayal of trust. And you know, murdering his best friend. Among other things.

I’m genuinely so sad that we don’t get to see Lan Xichen tear Wei Wuxian to shreds for what he did to Lan Wangji because I think one of the most important aspects to Lan Xichen’s character is how much he loves, cares for and fears for his little brother. The reveal about Lan Wangji’s punishment in episode 43 is a sad and sober conversation, but it’s not nearly as impactful, especially because Wei Wuxian asks about it of his own volition. I understand that this isn’t CQL’s fault! But. I can still mourn it right? ahahaha. :’)

I’ll stop before I descend further into nothing but Lan Xichen meta because that’s. Dangerous. (I have a lot of Feelings about how there are three characters who are held up as paragons of virtue in MDZS, how they all suffered in spite of their goodness, and how that all ties directly into the whole, “it is not enough to be good, but kindness is never wrong” theme. Anyways, they’re Xiao Xingchen, Jiang Yanli, and Lan Xichen, but NOT NOW. NOT TODAY.)

So yes, I’m a Lan Xichen apologist on main, and yes, I understand my feelings are incredibly personally motivated and influenced by my subjective emotions, but no I do not take concrit on this point, thank you very much.

4. all of the Wen remnants turning themselves in alongside Wen Qing and Wen Ning

Okay, back to plot changes. This change I would be willing to bet money was at least partially due to censorship, but it hurts me so deeply hahaha. It makes literally no sense for any of the characters and it completely janks the timeline of events post Qiongqi Dao 2.0 through Wei Wuxian’s death.

It’s not ALL bad—this change makes it easier for the Peak Wangxian moment at the Bloodbath at Nightless City (You know. Hands. Cliff. etc.) to happen, which I did very much enjoy. It’s pretty on-brand for CQL to sacrifice plot for character beats that they want to emphasize, so like. I get it! This moment is a huge gift! I Understand This. CQL collapses the Bloodbath at Nightless City and the First Siege of the Mass Graves into one event for I think a few reasons. One, Wangxian moment without being explicitly Wangxian, which is excellent. Two, it circumvents the Blood Corpse scene, which I do not think would have made it past censorship.

I’ll get to the Blood Corpse scene in a minute, but despite being able to understand why so much might have been sacrificed for the impact of the cliff scene, I still wish it had been done differently (and I feel like it could have been!), if only for my peace of mind because the plot holes it creates are pretty gaping.

The entire point of Wen Qing and Wen Ning turning themselves in is specifically to save their family members and Wei Wuxian from coming to further harm. That’s explicit, even in the show. Jin Guangshan demands that the Wen brother and sister stand for their crimes and claims that the blood debt will be paid. The Wen remnants understand that Wei Wuxian has given up so much for their sakes, that he has lost his family, his home, his respectability, his health, all in the name of sheltering them. To throw all of that away would be the greatest disrespect to his sacrifices. Wen Qing and Wen Ning decide that if their lives can pay for the safety of their loved ones and ensure that Wei Wuxian’s sacrifices matter, they are willing to go together and give themselves up.

So. Why did they. All go?? For… moral support???? D: Wen Qing says that Wei Wuxian will wake up in three days and that she’s given Fourth Uncle and the others instructions for his care–but then Fourth Uncle and the others all go with them!! To die!! There’s also very clearly a shot of Granny Wen taking A’Yuan with them, which like. Obviously didn’t really happen.

Wen Qing, who loves her family more than anything in the world, agrees that they should all go to Lanling and sacrifice themselves to…. protect Wei Wuxian? Wen Qing, pragmatic queen of my heart, agrees to this absurdly bad exchange?? Leaves Wei Wuxian to wake up, alone, with the knowledge that he had not only killed his brother-in-law but also effectively gotten everyone he had left killed also??

I can’t imagine Wen Qing doing that to Wei Wuxian. Save his life? For what? This takes away everything he has left to live for. You think Wen Qing doesn’t intimately understand how cruel that would be?

(Yes, I’m complaining about all of this, but I’m still about to cry because I rewatched the scene to make sure I didn’t say anything untrue, and  g o d  it manages to hit hard despite all of that, so who’s the real clown here!!)

Anyways. So that’s all just like. Frustratingly incoherent. It’s one of several wrongs I think CQL committed against Wen Qing’s character, but my feelings about Wen Qing in CQL are pretty complicated (I love her so much, and I love that we got more Wen Qing content, but that content sure is a mixed bag of stuff I really enjoyed and stuff I desperately wish didn’t exist) and I decided I wasn’t going to get into it in this post. (is anyone even still reading god)

This change also muddles Lan Wangji’s choices and punishment in ways that I think diminishes the severity of the situation to the detriment of both his characterization and his family’s characterization. The punishment scene is extremely moving and you should read this post about the language used in it but. sldfjsljslkf.

okay well, several things. In the context of CQL, which really pushes the “righteousness” angle of Wei Wuxian (see point 1), I think this scene makes a lot of sense in isolation: both Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian are painted as martyrs for doing the right thing. “Who’s right and who’s wrong?” The audience is asked to see the punishment as “unjust”. That’s perfectly fine and coherent in the context of CQL, but I don’t think it’s nearly as interesting as what happens in MDZS.

Because CQL collapses both the First Siege and the Bloodbath into one event, Lan Wangji’s crimes are sort of unclearly defined. In episode 43, when Lan Xichen is explaining the situation, we see a flashback to when Su She says something along the lines of, “We could set aside the fact that you defended Wei Ying at Nightless City, but now you won’t even let us search his den?” (of course, this gives us the really excellent “you are not qualified to talk to me” line which. delicious. extremely vindicating and satisfying. petty king lan wangji.) Lan Xichen goes on to say something like, “Wangji alone caused several disturbances at the Mass Graves. Uncle was greatly angered, and [decreed his punishment]”. (Sorry, I’m too lazy to type out the full lines with translations, just. trust me on this one.)

Lan Wangji’s actions are shown to be motivated by a righteous love. Wei Wuxian is portrayed as someone innocent who stood up for the right thing against popular opinion and was scapegoated and destroyed for it, having done no wrong. (See, point 1 again.)

In MDZS, Lan Wangji’s crimes are very specific. It isn’t just that he caused some “disturbances” (this is just Lan XIchen’s vague phrasing in CQL—we don’t really know what he did). He steals Wei Wuxian away from the Bloodbath at Nightless City, after Wei Wuxian killed thousands of people, and hides him away in a cave, feeding him spiritual energy to save his life. When Lan Wangji’s family comes to find him, demand that he hand over Wei Wuxian (who is, remember, a mass murderer at this point! we can argue about how culpable he is for those actions all day—that’s the whole point, but the people are still dead), Lan Wangji not only refuses, but raises his hands against his family. He seriously injures thirty-three Lan elders to protect Wei Wuxian.

I don’t know how to emphasize how serious that crime is? Culturally, this is like. Unthinkable. To raise your hand against members of your own family, your elders who loved and raised you, in defense of an outsider, a man who, by all accounts, is horrifically evil and just murdered thousands of people, including other members of your own family, is like. That’s a serious betrayal. Oh my god. Lan Wangji, what have you done?

Lan Xichen explains in chapter 99:

我去看他的时候对他说，魏公子已铸成大错，你何苦错上加错了。他却说……他无法断言你所作所为对错如何，但无论对错，他愿意与你一起承担所有后果。

When I went to see him, I said, “Wei-gongzi’s great wrongs are already set in stone, why take the pains to add wrongs upon wrongs?” But he said…… he had no way to ascertain the rights and wrongs of your actions, but regardless of right or wrong, he was willing to bear all the consequences with you.

I think this is very different than what’s going on in CQL, though the differences appear subtle on the surface. In CQL, Lan Wangji demands of his uncle, “Dare I ask Uncle, who is righteous and who is wicked, who is wrong and who is right?” but the very act of asking in this way implies that Lan Wangji has an opinion on the matter (though perhaps not a simple one). 

Lan Wangji in MDZS specifically says that he doesn’t know how to evaluate the morality of Wei Wuxian’s actions, but that regardless, he is willing to bear the consequences of his choices and his actions. He understands that his actions while sheltering Wei Wuxian are not clearly morally defensible. He did it anyways because he loved Wei Wuxian, because he thought that Wei Wuxian was worth saving, that there was still something good in him, despite the things he had done under mitigating circumstances. Lan Wangji did not save Wei Wuxian because he thought it was the right thing to do. He saved him because he loved him.

He is given thirty-three lashes with the discipline whip, one for each elder he maimed, and this leaves him bedridden for three years. Is this punishment horrifyingly severe? Yes! But is it unjustly given? I think that’s a much harder question to answer in the context of the story.

Personally, I think that question underscores the broader questions of morality contained within MDZS. I think it’s a much more interesting take on Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji as individuals. This asks, what can be pardoned? The righteous martyr angle is uncomplicated because moral certainty is easy. I think the situation in MDZS is far more uncomfortable if you examine its implications. And personally, I think that’s more meaningful!

(Not even going to touch on the whole, 300 strokes with a giant rod, but he has whip scars? And they were also sentenced to 300 strokes as kids for drinking alcohol…? CQL is not. consistent. on that front. ahaha.)

God, every point so far in this meta is just like “here’s one change that has cascading effects upon the rest of the show” dear god, okay, I’m getting to the Blood Corpse scene.

So in MDZS, the Wen remnants (besides Wen Ning and Wen Qing) do not go to Lanling. After the Bloodbath at Nightless City, Lan Wangji returns Wei Wuxian to the Mass Graves. Wei Wuxian lives with the Wen remnants for another three months before the First Siege, where he dies and the rest of the Wens are killed (except A’Yuan).

(Sidenote that I won’t get into: I love the dead spaces of time that MDZS creates. There’s very clear gaps in the narrative that we just never get the details on, most notably: Wei Wuxian’s three months in the Mass Graves post core transfer, and Wei Wuxian’s three months in the Mass Graves post Jiang Yanli’s death. They’re both extremely terrible times, but the audence is asked to imagine it instead of ever learning what really happened, what it was like. There’s something really cool about that narratively, I think.)

The Wen remnants are not cremated along with the rest of the dead. Their bodies are thrown into the blood pool.

At the Second Siege, when Wei Wuxian draws a Yin Summoning Flag on his clothes to turn himself into bait for the corpses in order to allow everyone else to escape to safety while he and Lan Wangji fight them off, there’s a moment when it gets really, truly dangerous—even with the help of the juniors and a few of the adults, they probably would have been killed. But then a wave of blood-soaked corpses come crawling out of the blood pool of their own accord and tear their attackers apart.

At the end of it, the blood corpses, the Wen remnants, gather before Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian and Wen Ning. Wei Wuxian thanks them, they exchange bows, and the blood corpses collapse into dust. Wen Ning scrambles to gather their ashes, but runs out of space in his clothing. Several juniors, seeing this, offer up their bags to him and try to help.

It’s just. This scene is so important to me. Obviously, it couldn’t be included in CQL because of the whole undead thing, but it’s such a shame because I maintain that the Blood Corpse scene is one of the most powerful scenes in the whole goddamn book. It ties together so many things that I care about! It’s the moment when the narrative says, “kindness is not a waste”. Wei Wuxian failed to save them, but that doesn’t mean that his actions were done in vain. What he did matters. The year of life he bought them matters. The time they spent together matters.

This is also the moment when the juniors finally see Wen Ning for who he is—not the terrifying Ghost General, but a gentle man who has just lost his family for a second time. This is the moment when they reach out with kindness to the monster that their parents told them about at night. It matters that the juniors are able to do that! That they see this man suffering and are moved to compassion instead of righteous satisfaction.

(Except Jin Ling, for very understandable reasons, but Jin Ling’s moment comes later.)

It’s also the moment that we’re starkly reminded that many of the adults in attendance were present at the First Siege and directly responsible for the murders of the Wen remnants, including Ouyang Zizhen’s father. We’re reminded that he’s not just a comically annoying man with bad takes—he also participated in the murder of innocent people and then disrespected their corpses. But what retribution should be taken against him and the others? What retribution could be taken that wouldn’t lead to more tragedy?

There’s someone in the crowd in this scene named Fang Mengchen who refuses to be swayed by Wei Wuxian’s actions. “He killed my parents,” he says. “What about them? How can I let that go?”

“What more do you want from me?” Wei Wuxian asks. “I have already died once. You do not have to forgive me, but what more should I do?”

That is the ultimate question, isn’t it? What is the only way out of tragedy? You don’t have to forgive, but you cannot continue to take your retribution. It is not fair, but it’s all you have.

okay. so. those were my four Big Points of Contention with CQL, as I am currently experiencing them.

Honorable mentions go to: Wen Qing’s arc (both excellent and awful in different ways), making 13/16 years of Inquiry canon (I think this is untrue to Lan Wangji’s character, though I can understand why it was done), Mianmian’s departure from the Lanling Jin sect being shortened and having the sexism cut out (there’s something really visceral about the accusations against Mianmian being explicitly about her womanhood that I desperately wish had been retained in the show), cutting the scene where Jin Ling cries in mourning for Jin Guangyao and is scolded for it by Sect Leader Yao (my heart for that scene because it also matters so much)

but now!! onto the fun part, where I talk effusively about how much I love CQL!! this will probably be shorter (*prays*) because a lot of my frustrations with CQL are related to spiraling thematic consequences while the things I love are like. Simpler to pinpoint? If that makes sense? we’ll see.

CQL’s greatest virtues, also according to cyan:

1. this:

[ID: Wei Wuxian, trembling in fear, screaming “shijie!” as Jiang Cheng threatens him with Fairy in episode 34 of The Untamed drama. /end ID]

I understand that this is like, a very minor, specific detail change, but oh my GOD, it is like. Unparalleled. Every time I think about this change, I get so emotional and disappointed that it’s not in the novel, because I think it strengthens this scene tenfold. In the novel, Wei Wuxian calls out for Lan Zhan, which like, I get it. The story at this point is focused on the development of his romantic feelings for Lan Wangji, so the point of the scene is that the first person he thinks of in a moment of extreme fear is Lan Zhan, which surprises him. That’s fine. Like, it’s fine! But I think it doesn’t have nearly the same weight as Wei Wuxian calling for his sister to save him from his brother. 

Having Wei Wuxian call out for his sister drives home the loss that the two of them have suffered, and highlights the relationship they all once had. Jiang Yanli is much more relevant to shuangjie’s narrative than Lan Wangji ever was, and this highlights exactly how deeply the fracturing of their familial relationship cuts. Wangxian gets so much time and focus throughout the rest of the novel. I love that this moment in the show is just about the Yunmeng siblings because that relationship is no less important, you know?

Calling out for Jiang Yanli in the show draws a much cleaner line through the dialogue. “You dare bring her up before me?” to “Don’t you remember what you said to Jin Ling?” It unifies the scene and twists the knife. It also gives us more insight into how fiercely Wei Wuxian was once beloved and protected by his siblings. Jiang Cheng promised to chase all the dogs away from Wei Wuxian when they were children. It’s clear that Jiang Yanli did as well.

Once upon a time, Wei Wuxian’s siblings defended him from his fears, and now one of them is dead and the other is using that fear to hurt him where he’s weakest. The reversal is so painfully juxtaposed, and it’s done with just that one flashback of Wei Wuxian as a child leaping into Jiang Yanli’s arms and calling out her name. Extremely good, economical storytelling. The conversation between shuangjie is much more focused on their own stories independent from Lan Wangji, which I very much appreciate. Wangxian, you’re wonderful, but this ain’t about you, and I don’t think it should be.

2. Extended Jiang Yanli content (and by extension, Jin Zixuan and Mianmian content)

Speaking of absolute goddess Jiang Yanli, I really loved what CQL did with her (unlike my more mixed feelings about Wen Qing). Having her in so many more scenes makes her importance to Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian a lot clearer, and we get to experience her as a person rather than an ideal.

On a purely aesthetic level, Jiang Yanli’s styling and character design is so stellar in CQL. The more prevalent design for her is kind of childish in the styling, which I don’t love (I think it’s the donghua influence?). And even I, someone who’s audio drama on main 24/7, personally prefer her CQL voice actor. There’s only a few characters in CQL that I look at and go “ah yes, that’s [character] 100%” and Jiang Yanli is one of them. I was blessed. I would lay down my life for her.

I’m really glad that CQL showed her illness more explicitly and gave her a sword, even if she never uses it! Her weak constitution is only mentioned once in the novel in chapter 69 in like two lines that I blew past initially because I was reading at breakneck speed and was only reminded of when my therapist who I conned into reading mdzs after 8 months of never shutting up oof brought it to my attention like two weeks ago. /o\

We never read about Jiang Yanli carrying a sword in the novel, though we are told that her cultivation is “mediocre”, so we know that she at least does cultivate, even if not very well. Highlighting her poor health in CQL makes her situation more clear, I think, and explains a little more about the way she’s perceived throughout the cultivation world as someone “not worthy of Jin Zixuan”. The novel tells us that Jiang Yanli is not an extraordinary beauty, not very good at cultivation, sort of bland in her expressions, and, very briefly, that she’s in poor health. I really love that description of Jiang Yanli, because it emphasizes that her worth has nothing at all to do with her talents, her health, her cultivation, her physical strength, or her beauty. She is the best person in the whole world, her brothers adore her, and the audience loves and respects her for reasons wholly unrelated to those value judgments. We love her because she is kind, because she is loyal, because she loves so deeply. Tbh, her only imperfection is falling for someone so tragically undeserving of her. (JK, I love you Jin Zixuan, and you do deserve her because you are an excellent boy who grows and changes and learns!! I can’t even be mean to characters as a joke god.)

Anyways, I just think the detail about her health is compelling and informs her character’s position in the world in a very specific way. I’m happy that CQL brought it to the forefront when it was kind of an easily-missed throwaway in the novel. It does mean something to me that Jiang Yanli, despite her poor physical health, is never once seen or treated as a burden by her brothers.

Something partially related that really hit hard was this:

[ID: two gifs. Jiang Yanli peeling lotus pods, looking up uncomfortably as her mother loses her temper about the Wen indoctrination at the table from episode 11 of The Untamed drama. /end ID]

D8 AAAAHHH this was VISCERAL. The novel is quite sparse in a lot of its descriptions and lets the audience fill in the missing details, so Jiang Yanli’s expression and reactions are not described when, after Jiang Cheng quickly volunteers to go to Qishan, Madam Yu accuses her of continuing to “happily peel lotus seeds” in such a dire situation.

“Of course you’ll go,” she snaps to Jiang Cheng. “Or else do you think we should let your sister go?”

This scene triggered me so bad lmfao, so I guess it’s kind of weird that I love it so much, but I felt Seen. Something about the way her nail slips in the second gif as she breaks open the pod is like. Oh, that’s a sense memory! Of me, as a child, witnessing uncomfortable conflict between people I cared about. I know this is an extremely personal bias, but hey, so is this whole meta. Because Jiang Yanli is often silent and quiet, it’s more her behavior and expressions that convey her character. It’s why the moment she lets loose on Jin Zixun is so powerful. We don’t get to see a lot of it in the novel, but because CQL is a visual medium, her character is a lot easier to pin down as a human as opposed to an abstract concept.

Anyways, in this moment, which I also think is a tangential reference to her weak constitution (it doesn’t feel like, “your sister can’t go because she’s a girl”; it feels like, “your sister can’t go because she couldn’t handle it”), we get to see Jiang Yanli’s own reaction to her perceived inadequacy. We see it in other places too—like how upset she is when Jin Zixuan dismisses her in several scenes, but this is the one that hits me the hardest because it’s about how her weakness is going to put her little brother in grave danger.

Last Yunmeng siblings with focus on Jiang Yanli scene that isn’t in the novel that I’m just absolutely wrecked over: the dream sequence in episode 28, when Jiang Yanli dreams about Wei Wuxian sailing away from her, but no matter how she shouts, or how she begs Jiang Cheng to help her, she can’t bring him back home.

I’m not going to gif it because I literally just like, fast-forwarded through it and started sobbing uncontrollably in front of my laptop, dear god.

I don’t know where the CQL writers found the backdoor directly into my brain’s nightmare center, but?? they sure did! IDK, I can see how this might be kind of heavy-handed, but it just. The sensation of being in a dream where something is going terribly wrong, but you’re the only one who seems to see it happening? But there’s nothing you can do? I feel like it’s a very fitting nightmare to give Jiang Yanli, who is acutely aware and constantly reminded of how little power she has in the world: not good enough for the boy she likes, not healthy enough to cultivate well, not strong enough to keep her family together.

The whole, elder siblings trying and failing to protect their younger siblings pattern is A Lot in the story, but there’s something particularly painful about seeing it happen to Jiang Yanli because of that awareness. All the other elder siblings are exceptionally talented or powerful in obvious ways. All Jiang Yanli has is the force of her will and the force of her love, and she knows it isn’t enough.

I care a lot about the Yunmeng siblings, okay! And I think CQL did right by them!

I’m only going to spend two seconds talking about Jin Zixuan and Mianmian, but I DO want to mention them.

Anyways, because we get more Jiang Yanli content, we ALSO get more soft xuanli, which is Very Good. Literally my kingdom for disaster het Jin Zixuan treating my girl right!! CQL said het rights, and I’m not even mad about it! I’m really happy that we get to see a little more of how their relationship plays out, and how hard Jin Zixuan works to change his behavior and apologize to her for his mistakes. The novel is from Wei Wuxian’s POV, so we miss the details, alas. Jin Zixuan covered in mud, planting lotuses? Blessed.

I think part of making Mianmian a larger speaking role is for convenience’s sake, but oh boy do I love that choice. Especially the Jin Zixuan & Mianmian relationship. Like, they’re so clearly platonic, and Mianmian is never once portrayed as a threat to Jiang Yanli. They just care about and respect each other a lot? Jin Zixuan’s distress when she defects from the Jin sect gets me in the heart, because it’s just like. God. I think there’s a lot of interesting potential there for her own thoughts re: Wei Wuxian. After all, she leaves her sect in defense of him, but he later kills a friend that she respects and loves. The moments shared between her and Jin Zixuan are minor, but they hint at a deeper relationship that I’m really glad was in the show.

3. To curb the strong, defend the weak: lantern scene (gusu) + rain scene (qiongqi dao 1.0)

I think I basically already explained why I love this so much in this post (just consider that post and this point to be the same haha), but just. Okay. A short addendum.

As much as I love novel wangxian, I really think that including this scene early on emphasizes why Lan Wangji loves Wei Wuxian so deeply. Of course he thinks Wei Wuxian is attractive, but this is the moment when he realizes, oh, this is who I love. Having that moment to reflect upon throughout Wei Wuxian’s descent is so excellent. I have enumerated all of my issues with the “perfectly righteous Wei Wuxian” arc that CQL crafted, but having this narrative throughline in conjunction with the novel arc would be like. My favored supercanon ahaha. (It would need some tweaking, but I think it would work.) It shows us exactly who it is that Lan Wangji sees and is trying to save, who he thinks is still there, underneath all the carnage and despair and violence and grief. This is the Wei Wuxian Lan Wangji loves and is unwilling to let go. This is the Wei Wuxian that Lan Wangji would kill for, that Lan Wangji would stand beside, that Lan Wangji would live for.

4. Meeting Songxiao

As much as I love the unnameable ache of Wei Wuxian never meeting Xiao Xingchen and learning only about his story through secondhand sources in the novel (and the really cool parallel to that where Xiao Xingchen tells A’Qing the story of Baoshan-sanren’s ill-fated disciples: both Xiao Xingchen and Wei Wuxian learn of each other only through the eyes of others, and that is Very Neat), I think the reversal that this meeting in episode 10 sets up wins out just slightly.

I said once in the tags on one of my posts that “songxiao is the tragic parallel of wangxian” and like. Yeah. Basically! If we take songxiao as romantic, the arc of their relationship happens inversely to wangxian, and that parallel is so much clearer and stronger when we have wangxian meeting songxiao in their youth.

The scene of their meeting really does have that Mood™ of uncertain youth seeing happy and secure adults living out the dreams that they’re afraid to name. Wei Wuxian’s eager little, “oh! just like me and Lan Zhan!! Right, Lan Zhan??” when songxiao talk about cultivating together through shared ideals and not blood is. Well, it’s Something.

When they meet again at Yi City, there’s a greater heaviness to it. So this is what happened to the people you once dreamed of becoming! Wangxian have already come to a point where they have an unspoken understanding of their relationship, but Songxiao have lost everything they once had. When Song Lan looks at wangxian, it’s like looking at a mirror of his past, and everyone in attendance knows it.

To me, that unspoken parallel is really emotionally and thematically valuable. All that good, and here is the tragedy that came of it.

okay, look! I managed to keep it shorter!! here are my honorable mentions: that scene where Jin Guangyao tries to hold Jin Ling and Jin Guangshan refuses to let him (it’s hating Jin Guangshan hours all day every day in this household), the grass butterfly leitmotif for Sizhui (im literally crying right now about it shut up), the Jiang Cheng/Wen Qing sideplot (look I know it’s wild that I actually liked that given that I headcanon JC as aspec, but I actually really like how it played out, specifically because Wen Qing and Wei Wuxian are NOT romantic—it sets up an unexpected and interesting comparison)

um. Anyways. I uh. really care about this story. And have a lot of thoughts, which I’m sure will continue to evolve. Maybe in 8 months I’ll return to this and go well, literally none of this applies anymore, but who knows! It’s how I feel right now. I cried literally three times while writing this because MDZS/CQL reached into my chest and yanked my heart right out of my body, but I had fun! *finger guns*

and like, I know I had a LOT to say about what frustrated me about CQL, but I really really hope it’s clear that I adore the show despite all of that. I talk a lot because I care a lot, and my brain only has one setting.

anon, this was like 1000% more than you bargained for, I’m SURE, (and I’m still exercising some restraint, if you can. believe that.) but I hope that you or someone out there got something out of it! if you made it all the way to the end of this meta, wow!! consider me surprised and grateful!!

time to crawl back into my hovel so I can write Lan Xichen fic and cry

(ko-fi? ;A;)

#the untamed #the untamed meta #mdzs #mdzs meme #mo dao zu shi #mine #mymeta #asks and replies #Anonymous #HOOOOOO BOY GUYS #we are just shy of 10k on this #*buries face in hands* #cyan writes #cyan gets too deep in the weeds #i will be shocked if more than like ten people read this #by the end it was just like well i guess this is just for me now lmfao #anyways. i will now. leave the internet for a while. thanks

[bigbadredpanda]

Hi Panda, would you happen to know what the Chinese fandom consensus on Madam Lan's backstory is? The consensus in English fandom seems to be that she was a victim of the Lan sect & abused by Qinheng-jun, but before I saw that I thought her and Qinheng-jun and the Lan sect had a misunderstanding, like wangxian in the cave vs the Lan elders after Nightless City, that sort of thing? The difference is so huge I need like an extra 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 50th opinion haha

Hi there! Mmn yes, it’s an interesting question, that part of the story is left ambiguous and led to a lot of speculation. I don’t think there’s really a consensus whether on the Chinese side or the international side. However, I’m not sure we can qualify what happened with Madam Lan and Wei Wuxian a misunderstanding. In my opinion, it’s more a difference of morality. What they did was justified from their perspective while in the eyes of others they have committed a grave crime.

Let’s look at the facts or at least what we assume to be facts.

Qingheng-Jun was a well-known and well-respected young man with a promising future ahead of him but he threw that away when he suddenly decided to marry and live in seclusion at a young age (弱冠之龄 according to the novel, the age when one receives during a coming of age ceremony the crown-like ornament men wore in their hair. It was historically 20 years old but MXTX lowered it to 15 in her setting to have the characters using courtesy names. I’m assuming that Qingheng-Jun is still meant to be 20. Anyway, brief digression). On his way home from a night hunt, he supposedly fell in love at first sight with a woman. However, that woman did not return his affect and killed his master. It’s unclear if that happened after their meeting or before. To protect her from reprisal from his Sect, Qingheng-Jun brought her to the Cloud Recesses in secret and performed with her the three bows that bound them together in marriage. Then, as an act of penance, he went in seclusion and locked away his wife in a separate cottage. That union eventually led to the birth of two sons. (Ch.64)

Of course, the big question is why did she kill Qingheng-Jun’s master? I use master because the term used here is 恩师, an honorific for an esteemed teacher towards whom the student feels grateful for his tutelage. The answer to that question is given by Lan Xichen:

“我不知，但想来无非‘恩怨是非’四个字罢了。”

“I do no know but it is assumed that it came down to a ‘dispute over a past grievance’.

This is fascinating as it explains everything and nothing. 是非 is literally ‘right and wrong’, the two characters together can mean ‘quarrel’. 恩怨 is also made up of the juxtaposition of two characters with opposite meanings, ‘gratitude and grudges’ (the same character 恩 is used in the teacher honorific above). It’s a concept rooted in Chinese culture that features particularly prominently in wuxia/xianxia genres where the notions of justice and honour are core precepts. This term designates old scores that need settling, a debt that has to to be repaid sometimes tenfold. To put it simply, when someone does you or your family a favour, you have a debt of gratitude toward them. When someone wrongs you or your family, you develop a grudge towards them out of deep-seated enmity.

Wei Wuxian is the prime example of this, he went to great lengths to return the kindness he was shown by the Yunmeng Jiang Sect and by the Wen siblings. To him, it’s a moral imperative, he was duty-bound to do so just like he was duty-bound to take revenge against the Qishan Wen Sect.

It’s this same concept that motivates other characters in the story. For instance, Wen Zhuliu’s steadfast loyalty stems from a debt of gratitude (知遇之恩), Wen Ruohan recognised his worth and accepted him within the Wen Clan (hence why he changed his name to Wen) and he cannot leave that debt unpaid (Ch.62). Xue Yang repays the grudge he held against Chang Cian tenfold by exterminating the entire Yueyang Chang Sect (Ch.30).

Coming back to Madam Lan. I’ve seen some speculation from Chinese fans about the origin of that ‘grievance’ between her and Qingheng-Jun’s master. Because of the age gap between them, it is surmised that this is something that happened one generation back. Perhaps he brought harm or even killed Madam Lan’s elder, parent or teacher. It was a duty for Qingheng-Jun to bring her to justice and see about that her crime did not go unpunished. Depending on the gravity of the situation, he might have been well within his rights to kill her himself in retaliation. Instead of pursuing that cycle of revenge, he took another path that protected the woman he loved but also punished the one who had killed his master. Because he went against the Gusu Lan Sect by marrying her in secret, his penitence is to live in seclusion, separate from her and from the affairs of his Sect.

In the Chinese fandom, it is assumed that Madam Lan must have been a woman with impressive skills if she managed to kill a Gusu Lan Sect elder. Did she resist capture from Qingheng-Jun and was forcibly taken to the Cloud Recesses? Did she resign herself to her fate and accepted being confined as punishment? Did she comply and eventually grew fond of the man who became her husband? We don’t know but Lan Xichen remembers his mother as a gentle person who never voiced a complaint about her own situation.

The exact circumstances are shrouded with mystery but most meta and fics I’ve read in the Chinese fandom tend to be of the opinion that love eventually developed between Qingheng-Jun and Madam Lan. But of course, that’s the way we would rather have. What is sure is that this was a tragic ending for all parties involved, including the children left behind.

I’ve also learnt something very very interesting from the meta I’ve read concerning the gentians growing near Madam Lan’s cottage. We know that MXTX has paid special attention to flower meanings with the peony that Wei Wuxian threw to Lan Wangji in Yiling (Ch.71). The flower's alternative name is 将离花, flower of impending separation or flower for saying goodbye soon, a peony can be a parting gift between lovers or would-be lovers forced apart and can have the undertones of "Will you be with me before we part?", "Will you wait for me?" In the audio drama, it’s made clear that Wei Wuxian knew the intended meaning before offering Lan Wangji the flower. Well, due to their bitter roots, in the Chinese flower language, gentians stand for 爱上忧伤的你. Which is. Wheeze. “You’re beautiful in your melancholy.”

In the end, Qingheng-Jun and Madam Lan‘s story is used in the novel to act as a foil to Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji’s relationship. In the past, Lan Wangji also wished to bring Wei Wuxian to the Cloud Recesses and hide him away there. But he couldn’t bring himself to because Wei Wuxian was ‘not willing’ (Ch.72). Interestingly, this story is also framed to contrast with Lan Xichen and Jin Guangyao who are sworn brothers. Remember that it’s Lan Xichen himself that recounts his parents’ story to Wei Wuxian after they have found evidence of Jin Guangyao’s treachery. Just like his father before him, he is torn between personal feelings and his duty to his sect, two conflicting allegiances. When he is asking Wei Wuxian’s opinion of whether his father did was right, what would have been the right thing to do, he is also looking for an answer for himself. Lan Wangji had made his own choice at the aftermath of the Nightless City massacre. He protected Wei Wuxian and brought him back to Burial Mounds, he took responsibility for injuring his Sect’s elders by returning to the Cloud Recesses and accepting being flayed by the discipline whip. He managed to reconcile personal devotion and his family/Sect duties with his own principles and harbours no regret.

#mo dao zu shi #mdzs meta #answers #kumipen

[righteousinadversity]

What is this anti Wangxian and anti Lan Wangji drama ? Thanks to the previous anon , I got to know about this sort of stuff.

Did people didn't read the story and are just on a bandwagon hating on it because it is becoming more and more popular !?

Are they doing stuff like this to get attention , just for people to notice their shitty takes or is there some particular cult or something like that they have made just to spread hate among the fandom !?

I feel really weirded out by this stuff , but what can we do people like these exist in every fandom ! 😔

Thanks for reading my rant.

I really don't know anon. Nor do I particularly care to find out, if you know what I mean.

Hate against the MCs are present in a lot of fandoms, so is shipping canon pairs with other characters. Oddly enough, I have never been particularly bothered by it, but I will admit that it is a lot weirder in the MDZS fandom. For one, LWJ is an ideal love interest, and for another, Wangxian is a romance that I feel is the kind written in the stars. I cannot imagine them with anyone else.

As far as fandom experiences go, I stand by my statement. Block, curate your feed. At the end of the day, fandom should bring you joy, and cutting out the things that only infuriate you is always the best thing to do. There is no need to interact with the content that you don't like.

Personally, I do vent a lot about some takes, either on here or with my friends, but at the end of the day, instead of arguing takes, I am far more interested in analyzing the novel itself.

I am glad you felt you could get it off your chest in my ask box, anon!

#asks

[canary3d-obsessed]

Restless Rewatch: The Untamed Episode 13, second part

(Masterpost) (Other Canary Distractions) 

Warning: Spoilers for All 50 Episodes!

This Fucking Turtle

The rock that Wei Wuxian and Wen Chao are standing on starts to move, because of course it does. It’s a tortoise shell, sort of. There are some problems with this ostensible tortoise. 

First, Murder Turtle a tortoise is technically a turtle don't @ me doesn't look anything like a turtle. I try really hard not to project my western mythologies onto Chinese works, but god dang this thing looks like the Loch Ness monster.

Second, its shell wobbles a bit, but there's no indication that the creature can move around the cave until much later. During an extended fight with several tasty cultivators, it stays put and just moves its head around.  

The immobility problem aside, it's not a terrible monster. After the hell dog, I'm relieved to have a normal CGI beastie where some things are done really pretty well. Its eyes and skin are particularly good.

What's not good are the teeth. When Murder Turtle closes its mouth, its long pointy upper teeth have nowhere to go, so they pierce its lower jaw and just sink in there. No wonder it's pissed off.

Its relationship with its shell is...well, let's save that for the next episode.

Irons in the Fire

Meanwhile,  Wang Lingjiao (Wen Chao's girlfriend) decides she's in the mood for barbequed MianMian, so she grabs a hot iron to burn her face.

Wei Wuxian to the rescue! He shoots three arrows at once and hits all three of his targets, in a move that he'll repeat with even more arrows at a later date.

Wang Lingjiao decides to throw the iron at MianMian, who decides not to duck, while Wei Wuxian leaps into the path of the iron and gets deeply burned on the chest through his clothing. This is absolutely definitely how time, things flying through the air, and branding irons work.

(more after the cut)

Jiang Cheng and Wen Zhuliu start fighting again. These two can't quit each other, almost like they have a date with destiny in their future.  Jiang Cheng shows off his purple bloomers while he and Wen Zhuliu try to outspin each other.

Camera operator: Why you gotta take it out on me?

Wen It’s Time To Say Goodbye

The Wens decide to dip, heading up the rock face and cutting the ropes behind them, which would be super inconvenient if several of the cultivators didn't know how to literally fly.

But they also put a bunch of rocks in the hole, while Wen Qing begs them not to do it.

Down at the bottom of the cave, everyone sits and chats, while Murder Turtle wishes it had legs so it could chase them. Oh wait, it does have legs, it just isn't ready to get out of the bath yet

Call the Waaambulance

MianMian is crying over all the nonsense the writers have put her through in this episode, and Wei Wuxian tries to cheer her up by talking to her like she's a toddler. On the plus side, he'll be a great dad for a toddler one day.

Jin Zixuan: I'm used to women crying around me, is that not typical?

Lan Wangji has got no time for cheering up crying girls, and starts heading back to the turtle bath, because he has figured out how they can escape. 

He and Wei Wuxian show off their mind reading abilities, where Lan Wangji explains absolutely nothing and Wei Wuxian perfectly understands him. See also: “Fortunately.” 

Rather than try to swim for it, the other cultivators want to hang around and wait to be rescued, or just generally feel like staying put and whining. 

Wei Wuxian takes charge through sheer force of personality, and makes Jiang Cheng go find the way out while he himself distracts Murder Turtle with fire.

Wei Wuxian can make talismans without 1. ink 2. a brush or 3. paper. He just needs his flesh and his unusually sharp incisors. He's so far ahead of everyone around him; how is a dude this talented ever going to be anyone's right hand man? He’s already on track to creating a new talisman-based school of cultivation, even if he never gets around to the whole necromancy thing.  

Swimming in the Pool, Swimming is Cool

The main group of cultivators go swimming while Wei Wuxian lights fires to keep the tortoise's attention. For some reason he just stands there when it's about to eat him...maybe he's mesmerized? Lan Wangji flings him out of harm’s way and gets his already-busted leg chomped on. 

Wei Wuxian pulls Lan Wangji to safety and tells the other cultivators to get going. Jiang Cheng doesn't want to, but Jin Zixuan convinces him.

For fans of homoerotic screen caps, this episode is a gold mine.

Murder turtle suddenly remembers he has legs, but Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji instantly find a room he can’t fit into, so they’re okay for the night.

Owie Owie Owie

Now we have an extended hurt/comfort session with our wounded heroes. Lan Wangji is bleeding, so Wei Wuxian...puts a splint made of sticks directly onto his unbandaged lacerations, and ties it with his pristine headband, which will remain pristine. Then he puts medicine on the lacerations.

This seems like a situation where the script said "broken leg" and the makeup department said "MOAR BLOOD" and nobody changed the direction to the actors. In any case, the sticks seem to help and bandages are not mentioned.

What is mentioned, of course, is the dreaded stale blood, which plagues many a c-drama hero, and has to be driven out through strong emotion. This is totally how the human circulatory system works. To be fair, there is probably a perfectly reasonable underlying concept in Chinese medicine that has been exaggerated for dramatic effect, so that every possible ailment or injury results in vomiting blood, sometimes sexily.

Wei Wuxian clears up the blood problem super quickly by offering to show Lan Wangji his dick, not to put too fine a point on it. Alas, he retracts the offer once the crisis has passed.

Once they settle down, Lan Wangji takes the opportunity to put some medicine on Wei Wuxian's burned tit, and to chide him for letting himself get injured. It's like he doesn't even know him. 

Wei Wuxian: I had no choice, because I am psychologically driven to sacrifice myself for other people at every opportunity. Get used to it, cupcake.

Wei Wuxian points out that MianMian is pretty and that it would be bad for her to have a mark on her face. Lan Wangji points out, not quite in so many words, that Wei Wuxian is pretty and now HE has a permanent mark. Before Lan Wangji ever got to see his bare chest, too.

Wei Wuxian says it's cool for men to have marks on their bodies. Preferably hickeys and rope burns, but scars are okay too. 

Lan Wangji: you're going to love my future body mods, then.

Then Wei Wuxian waxes poetic about having a pretty girl remember your heroism, and Lan Wangji gets jealous and cranky. Wei Wuxian misinterprets this, but not unreasonably, considering that Lan Wangji was putting his own body between MianMian and harm not all that long ago.

After some extended eye fucking followed by laughing and saying "no homo" for the censors, the conversation moves to a more serious place. 

Wei Wuxian engages in a little WangXian meta analysis, noting that Lan Wangji can tease him now, and is talking to him slightly more. Falling for a high-spirited, popular extrovert has been hard on Lan Wangji, but Wei Wuxian is also struggling with falling for a nearly-silent, crushingly-shy introvert. Wei Wuxian really does find Lan Wangji boring on one level, at the same time as finding him utterly compelling on other levels. 

Wei Wuxian starts to say something about the Lans and stops himself with this charming gesture. I've seen it here and there in c-dramas and I assume it's a thing in China. It's a perfect way for a hyperactive talker to say "I'm shutting up now" without using even more words to say it.

Lan Wangji finally, FINALLY tells Wei Wuxian - briefly - what happened to his home. Wei Wuxian, in one of those moments of empathy that they have more and more often as time goes on, asks about his loved ones, and forgoes any other questions.

Lan Wangji tells him that Lan Qiren is seriously injured and Lan Xichen is missing. Wei Wuxian is extremely concerned about one of these people.

When Lan Wangji falls asleep at 9pm on the button, Wei Wuxian tenderly covers him in his own robe, offering physical comfort in place of the emotional comfort Lan Wangji won’t let anybody give him. 

Then Wei Wuxian gazes at him like a lovestruck dope, before settling down beside him for the night. 

Soundtrack: Peter Gabriel, I Go Swimming

#fytheuntamed #the untamed #wangxian #wei wuxian #lan wangji #the untamed gifs #the untamed meta #restless rewatch the untamed #canary3d-original #my gifs #the untamed spoilers

[plan-d-to-i]

I'm the anon who asked about lxc

I really don't have any beef with lxc infact i had been slowly compiling points about him.

The one time i point him out is when he called wwx lwj's mistake. Taking this point because of how many people critically judge wangxian for every word that comes out of their mouth. I mean he could've avoided saying that when wwx was trying to test and learn the tells while trying to solve a murder mystery after being dead for 16 years. Even if he didn't know about wwx not able to remember the confession at his dying moments, he knew it hadn't been much time since wwx got back.

And i prefer to acknowledge imperfections rather that sugarcoating them.

Hm... is it sugarcoating something or acknowledging LXC had a point to feel the way he did in that moment and that once the misunderstanding was cleared up clearly has no ill will towards WWX or negative words about his relationship w LWJ? Is it sugarcoating or reading the story as it's presented vs being like: "OMG he called him a mistake- I'm going to take it out of the context of everything else he said and did >:-/ !!" 🌝. So yeah the fixation w his one comment seems puerile after LXC sheltered WWX, had the Lan Clan treat him, listened to him share his suspicions about his sworn brother, agreed to investigate JGY, didn't demand LWJ stop running around w him, and only got concerned and upset when WWX seemed to blow off any connection between himself and LWJ. Not to mention when he still ensured the confusion between LWJ and WWX was cleared up! And just to be clear, this is not me saying WWX did anything wrong, or LWJ did anything wrong. It's particularly odd since WWX didn't dwell on it in any way and recognized it for what it was. And I agree that he doesn't usually dwell on most things but there are hints when something impacted him/ stayed with him in some way. This however is not even alluded to again except in wish fulfillment fanfics by ppl who want to have drama w LWJ telling LXC off & picking WWX over his family, when he already showed he would if it was necessary when he stood up to the elders and LQR, when he has their approval and doesn't need to do it post canon, and when WWX certainly does not want him to do it ... 🙃

#mdzs #answers #Lan Xichen

[fytheuntamed]

How much of the novel do you think was Mxtx's actual outline for the story, how much was to keep the audience engaged, and how much was the request of her readers? I'd say most of the explicit romance stuff was to keep the audience. Whenever wangxian need to be physically intimate alchol was involved because she knew the ml would never do those things on their own and she needed a excuse to write it. Which imo is bad writing if you can't get the ml in your romance to be intimate without alchol.

Well there’s certainly a lot to unpack here, anon, but I’m afraid my ability to respond is quite hampered by a few things: I’ve only read a portion of the MDZS novel and I haven’t read any of MXTX’s other novels, MXTX’s initial intended audience was readers in China (which I am not), and I don’t know MXTX, so I can only guess at her intentions. That being said, I will share a few of my thoughts on the matters mentioned in your ask.

I think that with any story that is heavily plot driven, as opposed to a more slice-of-life story, the author has to have a fairly well thought out outline for the story before they begin writing, or at least before they begin publishing. Absent this, it’s inevitable that the story will become full of plot holes and loose ends. While the plot aspect of the novel may not be perfect (plot holes that exist in the drama don’t necessarily exist in the novel), the most common complaints I’ve heard about it weren’t plot related, leading me to believe the plot of the novel must be fairly cohesive. Reading your ask, though, I get the impression that what you’re asking about isn’t the plot plot, but rather the dynamic between lwj and wwx. Did MXTX make wangxian a couple to boost readership? Again, I don’t know MXTX, so I have no real way of knowing what her intentions were. That being said, I’m leaning towards no. My guess is MXTX just wanted to write a story where two guys are in love, and it probably wasn’t for any deep reason other than that she wanted to. I won’t get into the reasons why, as that would be a whole other post, but lots of girls really like writing mlm stories.

I want to stress again that I don’t know how the platform on which MXTX published the novel works, therefore I don’t know what level of communication existed between MXTX and her fans on said platform.

As for the physical intimacy between wangxian, again, I don’t think she wrote it just because she wanted to please the fans, but rather I think she probably wrote it because she herself wanted these scenes to exist. Was she also aware that readers were hoping for such scenes? Of course! (Assuming she read fan comments). I think it’s very standard practice in many countries, regardless of the medium, to include one (or multiple) scenes in which the main couple have their first time together. If you’ve properly written and developed the relationship between the couple, depicting them being intimate in this way with one another should be quite gratifying to readers. Now I don’t mean this in a, “if they haven’t boned, they aren’t really in love” way. I simply mean that such scenes can be used to show a deepening of the couple’s bond, which for readers who are invested in said bond, is really nice to be able to witness.

as far as novel!wangxian are with physical intimacy, i think their novel dynamic does rely more heavily on some classic tropes that didn’t make it into the drama because of censorship. Things like lwj’s possessiveness and jealousy that existed far more heavily in the novel couldn’t make it into the drama, as these were deemed to be too obviously non-platonic to make the cut. I think MXTX wrote lwj throughout the story as a man who is very repressed due to his upbringing, so I honestly don’t think it’s too surprising that she made him drunk during such intimate scenes. Putting aside whether it’s good writing or not, as that’s a can of discourse I don’t particularly want to get into right now, I don’t think it’s that lwj wouldn’t want to do such things with wwx while sober, but rather that he wouldn’t allow himself to do such things while sober (at least initially when he isn’t sure of wwx’s feelings for him). So in this case I don’t think it’s a case of bad writing in terms of inconsistency of characterization, as one could easily understand why someone like lwj would be hesitant to act in such a manner while sober. It would be one thing if lwj had been raised in a clan that was all, “follow your heart and your dick, go be free,” and still needed to be drunk to get intimate, but that just isn’t the case here. again, i’m not getting into any of the discourse surrounding their intimate scenes because i think i’ve already touched upon the matter in a previous post and said what i wanted to say on the matter.

in conclusion, because this post has gotten far too long: i don’t know MXTX - none of us do - so we can only guess at her intentions. i don’t know how large or small a role her Chinese fans played in shaping the story, but my guess would be MXTX wrote the story as she wanted to, not as her fans may or may not have wanted her to. i also want to say that because wangxian’s relationship is the backbone of the story, i don’t think it’s something she could have slapped together haphazardly in the middle of the story. their love story is so interwoven with the plot that i would be very surprised if MXTX revealed their relationship was simply an afterthought or the wishes of the fans. finally, in my opinion, novel!wangxian’s intimate scenes, putting matters of consent aside, do appear consistent with MXTX’s characterization of lwj as someone who is both possessive and repressed. whether fans prefer this characterization of lwj or the drama’s characterization of lwj is between them and themselves.

#ask #anon #Anonymous #i really think i'm incapable of answering asks like these briefly #i always end up having too much to say #this is kind of a mess but hopefully i was able to get my main points across

[missholland]

The Untamed saved me during Covid. Will it do it again?

It’s been a while since I last wrote about The Untamed. 2020 is ending and I was planning to do it anyway, but now it has even a bigger meaning given the situation I’m in.

Long story short: residents in London, UK including myself were told over the weekend that we were no longer allowed to spend Xmas with another household and the city would go into sort of another lockdown (they just didn’t call it ‘lockdown’ yet). That means not only I could not fly home to see my parents who I last saw in summer 2019 (let’s face it - 2019 was a hundred moons ago), but also I couldn’t even spend the holiday with my partner’s parents since they’re a different household. Basically, it’s just really shit.

That kinda push me to start my The Untamed rewatch sooner than plan. I thought a lot about the first full-blown lockdown we had in March, which led me into discovering the show and how it literally saved me from going insane over everything. Now that we’re entering even a darker time (particularly being in the UK), I’m just desperate for a spiritual ‘out’ from this sad reality. And what’s better than relying on a couple of friends (who are also a couple!) that got me through the first time? Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji.

I was determined to do this rewatch right. Sure, I’ve done it maybe 16 times since March. But given that The Untamed is now available on Amazon Prime where you can leave reviews, I gotta help the show to go places in the international market!

As soon as the intro played, my heart pounded so loudly. I was properly anxious, feeling like I was meeting a high school crush again after 10 years. Seeing the familiar faces from WangXian to Gusu Lan disciples, Jiang Cheng, Sujie, Mianmian, my man Nie Director, etc. I could not feel any happier. I had the widest smile on my face even though I was sitting alone in the room. Watching a sequence of familiar moments excited me so much I had to put a hand on my chest just to feel my heart beating. All that fuss over just an INTRO!

I might not need to pay too close attention to the story this time. But the more I (re)watched, the more I thought about why I fell in love with The Untamed in the first place and how the mystical cultivators’ world carried me through the national lockdown.

Everyone was (and still is) suffering in the real world with Covid. Many of us were required to stay in, work from home and live our social life through a computer screen. Like most people, my work and personal life became one within the 4 familiar walls of my living room. I changed from someone who thought she had the world to a person whose whole life got squeezed into a little box. Reality was just bleak. I didn’t want to live like that. I wanted to be somewhere Covid wasn’t a thing. Another world. Another universe. Anything.

The Untamed universe gave me everything and even a bit more. The show took me to a whole other world, although fictional, where I did not have to worry a thing about Covid. I was so immersed into their world, and that was possible all down to the cast and crew’s incredible effort in making it real for me. Of course, I did not think I became a cultivator. But everything felt real because I could feel so strongly in my heart the excitement when Wei Wuxian first fought Lan Wangji on the roof, the confusion in Sujie’s heart everytime she ran into Jin peacock, the sadness whenever WangXian part way, the anger of Chenqing, the pain when Sujie died, the relief when WangXian reunited, the butterflies in my stomach seeing the piggyback ride on the bridge, and the utmost happiness during the last 20 seconds of the finale. 

I can go on and on and on. But I remember so vividly during the first watch in March, I said to my friends The Untamed had been ‘the most beautiful distraction in the ugliest time’. I know the show has touched your hearts more or less the same way it did mine. Tell me - how do you feel whenever the loving melody of Wuji plays on the screen? I felt like someone was giving me the most tender back hug, or holding my hand tightly, or looking into my eyes so deeply. I genuinely felt like falling in love. It’s something that no other fictional production of any form has ever made me feel. Even though that ‘first time’ moment has passed, I could still sense the same emotion within myself whenever Wuji is played in the background of a scene. Some might say it was magical and I wouldn’t disagree. It’s hard to explain. But ‘magical’ is truly close enough to describe it.

You gotta give it to the production crew - how they manage to bring the source novel to life, not only staying faithful to the tiny details but also adding their own unique changes which, in some parts, actually did the work even better than the original. I can’t remember whether I’ve mentioned this, but The Untamed is the first Chinese series I’ve seen in 10 years - the last one being Bu Bu Jing Xin. This is for you to know that Chinese drama is not at all my jam. I have not seen any other Chinese series or fantasy/historical drama since The Untamed, and I will probably keep it this way for a long time. The Untamed has such a special place in my heart that I want to protect its legacy.

While typing this, I’m at episode 4. Still early days, the memories of the youth, the carefree adventures being the enormous storm that screw over our beloved characters. I thought maybe I’d write this after finishing the final episode. But I did not expect feeling so much emotion already from the beginning of the rewatch, partly because of the fresh frustration over what’s going on in the UK right now. I just want the show to save me again like it did during the start of the global pandemic. I don’t know how it’s going to do it, but I’m certain it will make everything a little bit easier everyday for me.

If you’ve made it this far to my super in-cohesive random writing, THANK YOU! I’ve ‘ranted’ about several Untamed-related topics during my first watch that you might find interesting:

Character Analysis: Wei Wuxian

Character Analysis: Lan Wangji

Moment Analysis: Favourite WangXian Moment

Episode Analysis: Episode 44-45

Story Analysis: Xiao Xingchen/Song Lan

Character Analysis: Jiang Cheng

The Ending Analysis

#wangxian #the untamed #chen qing ling #wei wuxian #wei ying #yiling laozu #lan wangji #lan zhan #hanguang jun #mo dao zu shi

[jcisthebestfightme]

BJYX Song #8: Brother and Sister

BJYX Song Series List

Disclaimer: My own speculations only.

So after two very sweet songs from gg, we’re back to dd. Dd, why are all your song so sad? Even though we see dd very happy with gg all the time, the songs he chose all reflect his insecurities, especially with age and gender. 

The song I want to talk about today is “Brother and Sister” by Easen Chen, one of dd’s favorite artist that he listen to since he was young. Even though the title says “brother” and “sister”, which implies a guy and a girl, on Baidu Baike (Chinese Wikipedia), it says that this song describe a love so pure, it even exceeds gender. It says “它甚至可以是同性的爱情” which translate to “it can even be love between two people of the same gender.” The lyrics is written by a man that’s famous in the Chinese music world for his sexuality and writing songs that speaks about unrequited love in homosexual relationships. 

This song was listed on the top of his song list when it was displayed during the ttxs episode that gg was there for. Since the events of Bombology, we know that dd tried really hard to get gg on the show and was mad at him for almost not coming. This allow people to speculate that dd is showing gg this song list, which was full of sad love songs, in order to convey to him his feelings of sadness and insecurities in their relationship. I think that they may be songs dd listen to when ggdd had a period of separation after the filming of CQL when gg wanted to get out of character and figure out how they can be together in the future. I think dd is using this as an opportunity to let gg know how much pain he was in back then. You obviously wouldn’t go up to the person you’re dating now and be like “hey listen to these songs I listen to when we were on a break.” And since he was already pissed from gg’s almost in-attendance, he may be using this to get some attention. We know from gg’d reaction that this is the first time he saw this song list or songs similar to this style from dd. When the list was first shown, he was like “What? This is your song list?” And then later, he asked again, “Is this really your song list? I feel like it’s wrong.” (summarizing) Dd then responded that he has many different song lists. So gg was surprise to see this side of dd. Dd likes to act proud and strong so he probably rarely show his vulnerable side to gg, especially when it’s about their relationship.

The backstory of the song already tells us that we can interpret “brother” and “sister” to also be between two “brothers.” If anything, I think this is the song that directly refute anyone that likes to say ggdd’s relationship is friendly, just like brothers. If you watch the music video of this song, it’s actually about the homosexual relationship between two girls. 

對我好　對我好　好到無路可退 ([You’re] nice to me, nice to me, to a point of no return)

可是我也很想　有個人陪 (But I also really want, to have someone to accompany me)

才不願把你得罪 (So I’m unwilling to upset you)

The first line uses repetition to emphasize how “nice” the other person is over and over again. We can see that gg also treats dd this way, creating a safe space to allow dd to be himself and not getting mad at dd when he’s being stubborn. I’ve analyze before in “If I were a song” that this is the way gg show love to dd and this is the way he thinks he can best love dd. However, I never thought about how dd feels about this. This first line tells us that maybe dd can misinterpret it? He knows gg is being nice and loving to him but it actually makes him feel insecure. Is gg being nice because he treats me like a child? Just like family? Is he just a nice person? 

The line “to a point of no return” tells us that dd is completely head over heels for gg, which most of us can see with our own eyes. Here, we learn he know so himself. He knows gg is nice to him and he knows he likes gg. But wants more than that. He was gg to “accompany” him. “Accompany” here means someone to spend eternity with. Dd is saying he desire to never let go of gg. If we assume that he’s speaking about the period where they were on a break in late 2018, then dd is super insecure about where his future with gg is. They spent an entire summer being in an ambiguous flirtatious stage, that may or may have developed into an early relationship. But then gg left him and he feels really hurt. He want to hold gg close forever but he can’t because he loves him too much. That’s why he’s “unwilling to upset” gg. We can see from their interactions and the song “Nan Hai” that dd is actually the one that’s more self-abased and less confident in the relationship. He’s so afraid of not being to provide for gg.

於是那麼迂迴 (So we walk in circles)

一時進　一時退　保持安全範圍 (Sometimes we move forward, sometimes we move back, we stay in the safe zone)

This part of the song talks about how ggdd was during that ambiguous state. They push and pull, testing each other to see how far they can take their relationship. The word “進 (forward)” and “退 (backwards)” before? Yes, they were the same motifs as in “If I were young.” In “If I were young,” knowing when to move forward and backwards show maturity. But here, it’s telling us that even though knowing these limits show maturity, it’s also very painful to be stuck in the ambiguity. For someone as young and straightforward as dd, he must be in a lot of agony. But because of his gender and age, I think dd feels like he must endure this because he can’t be as straightforward as a more socially acceptable romantic pursuit.

這個陰謀讓我　好慚愧 (This scheme makes me ashamed)

享受被愛滋味　卻不讓你想入非非 (Enjoying the feeling of being loved, but won’t let you get what you want)

We can feel dd’s agony in this stage. But instead of making himself the victim, he’s actually blaming himself for “enjoying the feeling of being loved” too much. It’s almost as if he feels like he doesn’t deserve this love he has with gg so every moment he has with him, it’s godsent. This explains why dd is so self-abased in this relationship. He feels “ashamed” for wanting more from the relationship so he’s unwilling to let go and allow gg to “do whatever he wants” because he’s scared that maybe what gg wants is just friendship or brotherhood. 

就讓我們虛偽 (Let’s be fake)

The word “fake” here has many layers. Because CQL is a BL drama, many people often accuse ggdd as being fake in their relationship as a form of queer-baiting for promoting the show and gaining popularity. So I think the “let’s be fake” can hit too close home for dd because he doesn’t want to have to sell out his relationship with gg but at the same time, if he can use this excuse to be close to gg, should he? This goes the same for their roles as WWX and LWJ. They could use their “fake” persona who are two lovers as an excuse to be lovey-dovey with each other without ever revealing their feelings. We know from all the interviews how much dd wants to separate himself from LWJ but gg during filming sees himself as WWX so dd also struggles with using LWJ as an excuse to get close gg. 

有感情　別浪費 (Have feelings, shouldn’t be wasted)

This line is basically giving in to his desire. Dd knows that true “feelings” exist between them and for someone as ambitious as he is, he won’t let any opportunity “go to waste”. We can see from how determined he is about dancing, motorcycle, skateboard, etc. that he would not let anything go. This is also true about his feelings for gg, at least that’s what he wants. However, there is a lot more insecurity when it comes to love and so while dd wants to grab on like he does with his hobbies, part of him is also afraid to move forward.

不能相愛的一對 (Two people that can’t love each other)

親愛像兩兄妹 (Emotionally close like brother and sister)

This goes back to the theme in all of dd’s songs that talks about not being able to be together because of gender and age. Here, even though we’ve established previously that genuine feelings exist, they “can’t” love each other and have to settle for being “brothers.” I think the label of “brothers” is also particularly agonizing for dd because that’s how homophobia in China like to wash homosexual relationship, for example saying that Wangxian’s relationship is just brotherly. So if ggdd can’t be lovers, being “brothers” would be socially acceptable relationship for them.

愛讓我們虛偽 (Love allow us to be fake/hypocritical)

The relationship feels fake because it’s not exactly what dd genuinely wants. They use their roles as actors and Wangxian’s relationship to cover up a lot of their feelings for each other. 

我得到　於事無補的安慰 (What I gain is useless comfort)

你也得到模仿愛上一個人的機會 (What you gain is the chance to imitate falling in love with someone)

This echos the first line of the song that gg gives dd a lot of care. But the “comfort” is “useless” because no matter how much gg gives, if they’re not honest about their relationship, dd’s heart will always have a gaping hole that the comfort can never fill. Since dd is uncertain of what gg feels, all he sees is gg acting like he’s liking someone so that’s why it feels like gg is just “imitating” the act of falling in love. We know now that gg does love him but when you’re in a fog of ambiguous relationship, you can never be sure if the other person is in love with love or in love with you.

殘忍也不失慈悲 (It’s brutal but still have mercy)

這樣的關係你說　多完美 (This kind of relationship, won’t you say it’s wonderful?)

These two lines have a tone of mockery. The oxymoron of “brutal” and “mercy” paints the push and pull relationship they were in during filming and the up and down dd must have felt when they were on a break. We know dd is a very blunt person and doesn’t like to beat around the bush. So for him to be in this state, it must be agonizing, painful, and “brutal” so the word “wonderful” is definitely mockery. 

眼看你　看著我　看得那麼曖昧 (Look at you, looking at me, looking so “ai mei”)

被愛愛人原來一樣可悲 (Being loved and loving someone apparently is equally pitiful)

I purposefully didn’t translate “ai mei” because to me, there is no good English word for it. It describe an ambiguous state before dating when you’re flirty yet uncertain. When we watch the CQL bts, “ai mei” is the pink flurry bubbles we see between ggdd. Here, the song perfectly describes that state during filming. It also uses “eyes” and “looking” to describe this “ai mei” between ggdd because the most obvious sign of ggdd liking each other in my opinion is the way they look at each other, whether as Wangxian or as themselves. But the next line tells us that while it seems pink and fluffy from outsiders, it’s actually “pitiful” that that’s all they can have, for both parties. I think here dd thinks the’s the one that is “loving someone” and gg is the one that’s “being loved”, establishing an unequal position between them. But I think that they love each other equally and that dd was just too in a mist to see it.

為什麼竟然防備　別人給我獻媚 (Why guard? The flattery others give me)

不能推　不能要　要了怕你誤會 (Can’t deny, can’t want, I worry if I want you will misunderstand)

讓我想起曾經　愛過誰　我所要的她不給 (Let me be reminded of a person I used to love, and she didn’t love me back)

好像小偷一樣卑微 (I was just as pitiful as a thief)

The “can’t deny, can’t want” echos the beating around the bush feeling. You can feel the ambiguous tension in this verse. The song talks about another girl that the singer used to love that didn’t love them back. Here, I’m going to assume that dd just empathize with the feeling and not take it literally. The line “as pitiful as a thief” really breaks my heart. Dd must have felt like the love he was receiving didn’t really belong to him and that every moment he was bask in it, he was being greedy.

The actual plot of the whole song is about a girl liking the singer and the singer didn’t like her back but still enjoy the ambiguous situation they were in. My own head cannon for this song is that for dd, he empathize more with the pain of the push and pull described in the song more than the plot. He’s unsure where his relationship with gg stand. If he listen to this song during late 2018 when they barely contact, he must’ve been using this ambiguous pain to describe the relationship they had during summer 2018. It may’ve been sweet but dd was always in a state of fear of loss. And since he wasn’t in contact with gg, he is also afraid that gg will come back and say they should just be “brothers.” “Brotherhood” must be one of the most painful definition for ggdd because during their interviews in summer 2019, they always refer to each other as “friends” (or “like friends”) and rarely ever use “brothers” because “friends” can imply “best friends” and “boyfriend” but “brothers” can only ever be platonic.  

This song was as agonizing to analyze as it was to listen to. But it’s such a beautiful piece. It’s actually really hard not to let my own emotion get to my analysis haha. I will pick something happier for my next one, probably gg’s view again. 

Also, happy birthday, dd! This is the 8th song to represent you. The music video also have them celebrating a cake. I hope you have move away from pain and are celebrating with loved ones <3

#bjyx #yizhan