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#other heroes are also mentioned

dreamaboutwhathappens · 27 days

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wait can i also just say that it’s one thing to feel like partners in crime (a la cowboy like me) but if it’s just you that’s the anti-hero, the monster on the hill, etc, while he’s still the shining ray of light on an otherwise dark shadow, there comes a certain point where you’re not partners anymore because you’re not both in it together, you’re against each other

#if he’s the hero and she’s the monster then you’re not working together because you dont have the same goals.#also not even to mention that someone who loves you should make you feel like you’re on a pedestal.#like. partners in crime at worst. and uplifting and supporting each other at best.#do you see what i’m saying.#random thoughts with grace

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muninnhuginn · 1 month

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Thinking about "your weakness is how you always want to be the hero" and how the series returns to this at the end

Li Lianhua hated how he acted as Li Xiangyi and spent years trying to distance himself from it, but ultimately he still fell back into the similar patterns, for all his added experience

His main priority was always to "do the right thing" regardless of how that would impact on those around him. And it *did* impact those around him. From Qiao Wanmian and Shan Gudao as Li Xiangyi to Fang Duobing and Di Feisheng as Li Lianhua

Giving the Styx flower to the emperor so he could use it as leverage to guarantee Fang Duobing and his family's safety. Using the last of his power to save Yun Biqiu. Constantly putting others above himself whilst actively refusing to recognise that his self-sacrificial nature would hurt those he cared about most

And sure, he thinks he's going to die anyway. They're going to be hurt regardless and he can't do anything about that. His odds are low of the Styx flower even working. But ultimately, he refuses to even consider trying. Li Xiangyi has been dead a long time and Li Lianhua is just there to tide things over. What value is the life of a ghost

To the end, he lives and dies a hero. To the end, he refuses to live for himself.

#sth about how he almost managed to live for himself but his past and need to do right doomed him.#those missing years before canon starts were probably the closest he got but even then the knowledge he couldn't use martial arts #must have killed him (no pun intended). because he'd put so much stock in his identity as sigu sect leader + hero + prodigy #so to have such a massive part of his identity stripped from him... honestly it doesn't seem that he ever fully comes to terms with it #but he makes progress and he tries to do better. + that leads to him becoming a different type of 'hero' than the symbol he was originally #deep down he wants to help people with all he has but his capacity isn't infinite + at some point can only be taken from himself #mysterious lotus casebook #mlc spoilers #also to be clear I mention shan gudao not to say lxy should have realised earlier bc for a lot of the time he was too young to notice #and later on sgd did better at hiding his intentions. but more for how lxy tunnel visioned towards his idea of righteousness #and steamrolled over everyone else. both sgd and qwm were placed far below the importance of the sigu sect #and lxy's arrogance made it such that sigu became reliant on him alone as he shut others out (hence domino fall once he went).#idk if he could ever have 'fixed' what was btwn him and sgd bc it was so deep rooted but I do think that his actions #helped convince sgd that sgd was entirely in the right to choose his path #mlc #edit: just went and checked the exact wording of the TL and it's actually 'you like being a hero' rather than 'you want to be the hero'#which is different but still close enough in implications for my point to stand (I think)

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ganondoodle · 9 months

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someone commented on an old post of mine that sonia wasnt fridged bc shes relevant to the plot and i have been thinking about it for an hour bc i dont think thats an actual get out of jail card for that .... also ... what does she do? be raurus way to cement himself as da king? give some half assed advice to zelda, that has no pay off unless you count zelda time reversing a bunch of weapons*, and then immediately dies just so zelda can essentially replace her and make rauru regret he didnt stab ganondorf right when he showed up in their temple i guess ?? (which is questionable on its own imo)

(*its not a good pay off for powers she was suddendly revealed to always have had(tm) and also is only ever used to .... welll, get zelda out of the way back in time, reverse a few weapons and .. idk create a ham fisted way to give the player her gimmick?)

even if she doesnt technically meet the requirements(lol?) to be called fridged like .. she is spiritually at least for how irrelevant and cheapely killed off she was

#ganondoodles talks #zelda #totk #idk man #be honest were you surprised by her death?#she first time she appeared she basically had a sign around her that said murder me VILLAIN #also i guess you can count her i guess having never mentioned babies with rauru off screen or sth #bc how would zelda have both their powers beign a super super distant relative #i guess there are ways to do that with other relatives and whatever was going on with the ancient hero (uuuugh) reveal #but the way she said it was like #das our 10 000 times removed grandkid or however that works in english #nhjdfkgfjknkgf #like maybe im misremembering something #but you cant tell me she didnt at least FEEL fridged #like when i saw the cutscene i thought at first oh she was just punched no way shes gonna die from one punch-#-i wonder what she will do no- oh she is dead lol #totk is all just subverting ma expecations by making me hopeful for something interesting only to reveal it is the most boring way actually #i cant get over the intro giving me the tiniest crumb of oh thats how zelda being your companion could wor- aaand shes gone bye bye zelda #for the rest of the game

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ludcake · 8 months

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Few things loom over A Song of Ice and Fire quite like the Others - the pale, cold gods beyond the Wall, which first introduce us to the magic of Martin's world. Better theorycrafters (and writers) than me have gone at length about the thematic strengths of the Others, and how they contrast the coming struggle against the winter foretold by the Starks since Book 1 with the petty politics, intrigue and bitterness of the Southron courts, which see it better fit to war against each other than unite against the looming threat to, as they "hated iron and fire and the touch of the sun, and every creature with hot blood in its veins", as said by Old Nan in AGOT Bran IV.

When we first meet the Others, in the very first chapter of the entire series, the very first thing we are told of is the cold and the dark - and, of course, the dead. Waymar, Gared and Will are already put to discomfort before the Others are even hinted at, though it is clear that the three rangers know of the tales of White Walkers. Gared and Will are veterans of the Night's Watch, but as soon as there are hints of the darkness and the cold, Will seems to judge Gared ready to kill Ser Waymar for denying them a fire - and while it is true that Gared had already lost both ears and a finger to frostbite, we are also told that it is warmer than usual in the Wall, enough that it is weeping, or melting.

Of course, as we all know, the wildlings the trio was sent to track have disappeared, seemingly turned to wights - and it is here that we first meet the Others, and find one of their rare and few descriptions, at a moment where they seem all too human, perhaps more than anywhere else in the series. The Others are often framed as, well, Other - we see little of them but as distant shadows, the cold gods spoken of by Craster, and Old Nan's tales (more on that later).

Afterwards, of course, Ser Waymar and the Other engage in a duel, and notably, its companions do not engage; instead, they watch the fight, and approach only to deliver a coup de grace - and in what I believe to be one of the most interesting moments of the prologue, they speak, and seem to mock Ser Waymar.

To me, this already provides a stark contrast to how the White Walkers were depicted in the show, which hints at an origin of them as men turned by the Children of the Forest as a weapon; though these warriors of frost seem cruel and dissimulated, they have a tongue, and communicate with each other, with distinct voices and both flair and personality. Interestingly enough, perhaps, the same conlanger who developed the Dothraki and High Valyrian tongues for the TV show supposedly began developing a tongue for the Others during the production of the show's pilot - though that idea was (unfortunately) dropped. The Others are a people, creatures of ice just as dragons are of fire, dwelling beyond where it is always winter - and they bear armor and swords of frost, speak a language of harsh ice and bring forward the cold wherever they come. Let us take a look at their other prominent appearance, in Sam the Slayer's great bout against the white shadow.

These are the two times we face the Others directly - and they are both heralded by the looming cold, the rustling of the trees, the darkness and despair filling the men who see them; they bear pale crystal swords, seem to melt at contact with obsidian, are able fighters, fast and elegant, and glow and shimmer in the reflective ice of their armor, turning the color of their surroundings as it reflects upon them - and interestingly enough, both appearances are near sentinel trees, though they are common enough in the North for it not be particularly aberrant.

Every single other thing we know of the Others, however, comes from other sources; some more reliable, such as Mance Rayder and Tormund Giantsbane, who have personal experience with them, while others come from distant reports, passed down in the library at Castle Black or by Old Nan's tales. We are told of the Long Night and myths of the North by Maester Yandel, and Craster speaks of his cold gods sparsely, but if anyone, he's the one who'd know them best; and Melisandre, the Red Witch that follows King Stannis, speaks of them as shadows, servants of the Great Other - a god whose name must not be spoken.

What is interesting, then, is what is not shown in both these encounters; we see no great ice spiders, no weaving of spellcraft, no eternal hatred for all that lives. They commit no particularly great atrocity for evil's own sake - they create their army of the dead through the wights, but it may well be motivated by the pragmatism of an unending army, rather than an ultimate desire or appreciation for undeath over life, as they show little appreciation or care for the walking dead but as tools of warfare - and the Others don't feed their servants the flesh of human children, nor do they deal with the Children of the Forest. Much of what we are told of the Others, and who they are, comes from secondary information, legends passed down generation after generation by wet nurses and servants to babes low and highborn alike.

I must take a moment here to emphasize that I don't believe that this disproves what we are told of the Others; while indeed the information that is shown to us is sparse, a lot of what is told is not a stretch at all, and it'd be unlikely for it to be entirely disproved - all the more when the source of information are Wildlings such as Mance, Tormund or Ygritte, who have been dealing with the encroaching advance of the Others for years now and lived with that threat more than any Southron Maester. However, I do think that there is more to the Others than an omnicidal horde of ice demons - fitting though the idea of a climate change allegory may be, I am skeptical that the ultimate conclusion to A Song of Ice and Fire lies in a reenactment of the Battle of the Black Gate. As Martin famously said to Rolling Stone,

Of course, this line has been endlessly repeated, parodied and quibbled over, but I do think it's a recurring theme throughout the series - the full interview goes at length on a lot of fascinating points that I believe shed a very bright light on a lot of what Martin believes and how he writes, and you can find it here. Even the matter of the "little baby orcs" is brought up in the idea of the righteousness of Joffrey's assassination, and I definitely think it's a motif that bears keeping in mind; the innocence of children, and the conflict between their significance as the continuation of a line and the innocence they represent, is something that's touched on with the Lannisters, the conflict at Castle Black regarding baby Aemon Steelsong, and it is something that I believe will be reflected down the line whenever Craster's sons reappear.

The orcs in Lord of the Rings function, in many ways, a not dissimilar purpose to what the Others and their wights are; a looming threat casting a long shadow over the realms of men, over which the petty disputes of politics and family are secondary to what may yet be the end of life as we know it. An army so incredible and mighty that it seems hopeless for the sentinels of civilization to defeat, which will require that humanity either "face them and fight them or defeat them, or work with them, but […] do so as earthmen", to quote the fat man himself from that same interview. From the same interview, he comments this regarding the Wall and the Night's Watch:

This is, of course, a personal piece of meta, reflecting on my own approach to the themes; but to me, one of the most consistent pieces of relevance in George R R Martin's writing is his capacity for humanity, and to empathize and humanize people and characters which would not, in the traditional fantasy genre with which he plays, be humanized at all - that's at the crux of PoVs like Jaime or Cersei, or Jon's journey with the Wildlings, or even a character like Sansa. The human heart in conflict with itself is the fundamental reason to write, to tell a story - and if there is no conflict with itself, if there is no humanity to be had, there is no story, or character.

Of course, there are missteps in the process; his heavily misogynistic treatment of characters such as the Dead Ladies Club, or the orientalist nature of the characterization of Dorne and Essos are some of the most litigious pieces of his writing in terms of abstracting humanity away from parts of the setting. But ultimately, when we do explore these areas and these characters, we meet people like Arianne, and we're made to care for even the commonfolk of Essos moreso than the commonfolk of Westeros, I'd argue, through the point of view of Daenerys and her own struggle for liberation, which is later expanded to a wider cause.

The Others are Otherised by their very name, by their very nature; they're not human, they're one of the most explicitly supernatural things in the setting, they open the very first book with a sense of dread. And yet, dragons such as Viserion can be granted sympathy and characterisation; GRRM is not unfamiliar with dealing with non-human characters in his other works. And yet, as he compares the Wall to Hadrian's Wall, don't we know that what lies beyond - in the Lands of Always Winter, in Scotland - are people? People who wage warfare and who laugh and sing, and who love and are torn apart between duty and passion?

To me, there's an intense disconnect between a profoundly humanist story, by an author who is notably critical of the usage of orcs and similar threats in fantasy literature, and the idea of an all-encompassing, apocalyptic and manichean conflict in the Battle for the Dawn; it's a deeply myopic worldview, and it is, indeed... Well, Melisandre who calls for it!

For what it's worth, I do not think that Stannis and Melisandre are characters to be taken entirely at face value - particularly when for a majority of ASoS, the word demon is used particularly to invoke *fire* - to invoke both wildfire, in the memories of the Blackwater, and to invoke R'hllor in Davos' perspective.

I'd continue on and talk a bit about my theories for the Others - the ideas of them as spirits, as creations of the Children of the Forest, as oathkeepers and Starks (I find the idea of them being oathkeepers is very interesting, and ties into some of Mance's story). Unfortunately, that'll have to be kept to another post, if I do write it, because I think the point of this one is very clear - to think of a Battle for the Dawn as the central point, to think of A Song of Ice and Fire as a story that serves to fundamentally legitimise the violence and warring against an enemy that is Otherised, seems to me to be missing the point. I sincerely hope that if The Winds of Winter comes out, we'll have a fresh insight into who, exactly, they are, but I've no doubt it'll be a more interesting explanation than "people you can murder without feeling guilt over it".

#asoiaf #valyrianscrolls #the others #meta #.txt #I'd also talk a bit about how like.#lots of people further use the idea of the others to make a big marvel hero team up #or even to justify specific situations #(looking at you nissa nissa/azor ahai prophecy theories that are about fridging main characters)#but i think the point is made #if the others are just ice demons you can struggle against and kill without worrying for their humanity (or yours)#then there's not really a human heart in conflict with itself innit #they need to be more than that if there's gonna be a story to be told #otherwise we could've just said “and then the bad guys invaded because we were too concerned with petty things like politics and violence”#not to mention that coldhands....... exists

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thewindsofwolves · 1 year

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Jon Snow & Sansa Stark Book Parallels & Mentions 33/∞ : Sansa wished for the help of Aemon the dragonknight and Ser Ryam Redwyne, while Jon played to be these very heroes as a boy

She shouted for Ser Dontos, for her brothers, for her dead father and her dead wolf, for gallant Ser Loras who had given her a red rose once, but none of them came. She called for the heroes from the songs, for Florian and Ser Ryam Redwyne and Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, but no one heard. A Clash Of Kings, Sansa IV

Every morning they had trained together, since they were big enough to walk; Snow and Stark, spinning and slashing about the wards of Winterfell, shouting and laughing, sometimes crying when there was no one else to see. They were not little boys when they fought, but knights and mighty heroes. "I'm Prince Aemon the Dragonknight," Jon would call out, and Robb would shout back, "Well, I'm Florian the Fool." Or Robb would say, "I'm the Young Dragon," and Jon would reply, "I'm Ser Ryam Redwyne." A Storm Of Swords, Jon XII

#note how she doesn't call for cujo to come saving her :)#i could be mistaken but are these specific heroes mentionned in other povs ?#jonsa #jon x sansa #actuallyjonsa #jon snow #sansa stark #jonsa book parallels serie #my posts #gifs/edits by me #got #game of thrones #gotedits #asoiaf #asoiafedits #a song of ice and fire #sansastarkedit #jonsnowedit #also the implications !!! aemon the dragonknight & his tragic courteous love for his sister !!!!

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dine-dun · 2 months

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LMAO not FEH trying to make seiyuu pun. Basically Kagetsu Forging Bond: Takehito Koyasu Edition

#fire emblem heroes #i see you what you did there #if you know you know #also seteth mentioned other units who share the same VA as him lmao

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eggoyolkk · 10 months

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just seeing that sketch dump of wilfre being spared by the hero makes me love it; an how about the hero managing to clean the corrupting shadow off from him (untainting and separating aldark away from wilfre's body in the process (i am even imaging a funny scene of this shadow jerk aldark going down the drain in this process)) without killing him? how it would look like?

hilariously ive already considered this <3

so step one: retrieve him from the hall of darkness alive and separate him from Heather

step two: gay bath.

step three: no more shadow :D

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alvindraperzzz · 2 years

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Ngl, I think it’s weird how chummy Kon and Steph are in the preview panels of Tim’s upcoming special.

I know, I know, it’s a new universe, multiple reboots removed from the post Crisis / pre Flashpoint universe I typically read. But it is odd seeing how friendly Young Justice has been with Steph since 2019, when pre-Nu52, most of them either wouldn’t have a clue who she is, or if they did know her, canonically did not like her… and vice versa. Steph and Young Justice were not friendly, for several reasons:

The Greta incident, wherein Greta attacked Steph in a bout of jealousy and resentment

Greta snubbed Steph’s peace offering during the Zandia thing

The second Greta incident

Steph makes no mention of Tim’s closest friends despite them being a huge part of his life, and expresses zero interest in meeting them

The fact that there are a lot of girls on the team and Steph gets pissy and jealous over every girl Tim interacts with

Superboy is pissed when he finds out she replaced Tim as Robin, and is a jerk to Steph about it

Wonder Girl knows how badly Steph hurt Tim when she “died,” and dislikes Steph for swanning back in acting like nothing happened

Steph betrayed Tim, sabotaged his investigation, hired assassins to attack him, and in doing so not only got people hurt/killed but greatly damaged Tim’s trust — not an interaction with YJ, but plenty of reason for them to despise her

Seriously, every single one on one interaction between Steph and the members of Young Justice pre reboot was negative. Betraying Tim would do nothing to endear her to them (in fact, may even elevate from cool distance or vague dislike to actual animosity). The rest of them probably don’t even know who she is (I don’t think she’s ever exchanged a single word with Bart).

This is strictly from a pre-Nu52 standpoint — like I said, we’re currently several reboots away from this. But it is why I think Steph being tight with Kon and the rest of YJ is weird, especially now that they have a hodgepodge of memories to draw from.

Schrodinger’s canon, and all that

#tim drake #young just us #young justice comics #kon el #bart allen #cassie sandsmark #greta hayes #tim drake pride special #Ngl I’m not a fan of how chummy Kon and Steph have gotten #Please stop forcing your friend to talk to his ex #Bart and Steph have never interacted to my knowledge #He might know her from the invasion of Zandia or as Tim’s girlfriend but they’ve never exchanged a word #theres also a panel where Steph possibly calls them freaks but it’s unclear who she’s referring to so I left it out #steph probably hates or fears Greta after the incidents #so learning YJ still regularly hangs out with her would piss her off #stephy dearest #and yes it is weird that Steph never brings up YJ or talks about meeting them #dick Barbara and pretty much every other important person in Tim’s hero life mentions them and shows interest in Tim’s closest friends #steph does not #to be perfectly honest #i really hope Steph stays away from yj #i don’t want them to be friends #im sick of her being in everything #tim’s team and now his relationship with benard #he just can’t get away from her #even now that tim’s bi and into men she still has to be involved in that #judging by the preview snippets of tdps people are going to start shipping Kon and steph #gross

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usernose · 5 months

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People who are/were Obake fans, may I ask you one question:

How would your "interpretation" of Obake react to canon!Obake? I'll go first:

Canon!Obake: Wh-who are you?

My Obake, in a priest outfit: I'm you from another universe.

Canon!Obake, confused: Why are you wearing priest clothing. We aren't that religious.

My Obake: Huh, oh this. Yeah, some god found me "relatable" and chose me to be his favorite. I found that out later on as my sanity slowly decreases. I won't go on into the details, but at least I found my brothers.

Canon!Obake: I had Brothers?!

My Obake: Hmm. Oh, I keep forgetting it's not universal. Sorry about that.

Canon!Obake: Huh?

My Obake: Also, I have more children than I had before. A biological son with my ex wife.

Canon!Obake: EX WIFE!

My Obake, continuing: A deer child with my new wife.

Canon!Obake: NEW WIFE! DEER CHILD

My Obake: A Cosmic Child and a new android daughter with my sorcerer boyfriend.

Canon!Obake: Wait, wait, wait- Boyfriend? I thought you had a wife.

My Obake: Yes and Boyfriend. *turns to the 4th wall* I'm Bisexual and Polyamorous.

Canon!Obake: What are you looking at?

My Obake: I also adopted a grown woman scientist.