#ml s4 analysis

[new-kit-on-the-block]

Miraculous - The watered-down significance of akumatization

(This is an analysis, but it's also a sort of rant. So there's a lot of text underneath the cut. Just a fair warning.)

I have a problem with the way that the latter seasons of Miraculous handle akumatization.

There's a pretty basic rule of thumb when it comes to writing the bigger moments of your story:

If something is a big deal, let it be a big deal.

Seasons 4 and 5 don't always do that.

Let's take a look at what I mean.

These are screenshots of the three separate occasions that characters have broken out of akumatization in seasons 4 and 5.

Take note of who these characters are and their importance (or lack thereof) to the overall plot.

On the one hand, you have Alya and Nino, the two main characters' respective best friends. It's only natural in a show like this for these two to be strong enough to break out of akumatization, it makes the main characters look like they definitely chose their friends right.

And then you have Alix's Redditor conspiracy-theorist older brother.

Why is he one of the big three who managed such a significant feat like this?

It's not like he's been shown to be particularly strong-willed. In fact, one could argue that he's even less so than most other characters due to how much further he fell into the rabbit hole of Lila's manipulation than anyone else.

His gullibility and irrationality are the entire reason he gets akumatized in the first place.

And he doesn't ever play a significant role after this, either. The only other time that he even had so much as a speaking role was the other time he got akumatized way back in season 1 for not being allowed to sacrifice someone to the Egyptian gods.

Now, these aren't the first times that people have fought back against Hawkmoth while being akumatized. But they are the first times that they've successfully broken out.

Pixelator questioned Hawkmoth's authority over him, and in response, Hawkmoth did something with his hand that started causing physical pain to Pixelator, reinstating his control over his akuma.

The only other time an akuma victim fought back was Robustus, which was a special case because he rebelled against Hawkmoth by using the specific abilities that were granted to him.

Neither of them even tried to escape akumatization.

Akumatization has always been set up as something powerful. Something that takes the worst parts of you and amplifies them to the point of no longer being capable of rational thought.

We never end up questioning why people don't try to resist akumatization if they know that they might end up hurting people. We already know the answer. It's because they can't.

Even Ms. Bustier, possibly the character who hated akumatization the most at the time, couldn't avoid becoming akumatized despite her best efforts.

So three separate people breaking free from their akumatization should imply that Gabriel's control over his victims is getting weaker, which would be a very big deal.

But nothing is ever done with that. After Alix's brother, nobody ever broke out of akumatization again. The ability to do so is used as nothing more than a plot device in these few episodes.

Another thing is that, if anything, Gabriel's grasp over his victims' emotional state should be even stronger.

His akumas are canonically more powerful than before, to make the lucky charms that Ladybug hands out stop working against him.

If bigger and more powerful akumas don't make his hold on people even stronger than before, then the entire arc of Ladybug realizing that she can create charms to prevent people from being akumatized more than once, and Hawkmoth's counter-arc of nullifying her efforts by simply creating bigger akumas was all just a complete waste of time.

After Guiltrip, I assumed that they were building up to Rose being able to break out of akumatization through her naturally positive nature alone, and then they would have an arc of her teaching others how to do the same.

Suffice to say, neither of those things happened.

Rose's "inner voice" that she's apparently had in her head this entire time doesn't serve any actual purpose other than to make her worthy of the pig miraculous.

To be clear: I don't have any issues with Rose's invisible illness never being mentioned at any point before Guiltrip. That's the entire point of an invisible illness.

My point is that Rose's ability to break free from negative emotion-based mind control is an extremely important ability that was never even so much as hinted at before or even brought up again any time after Guiltrip.

So, once again, it's just an extremely important one-off ability that doesn't matter and doesn't affect the stakes whatsoever.

These seasons keep throwing moments at us that should be very big deals but are never treated as such.

Now let's compare all of this to an actually good akumatization-related scene.

When Chloe successfully rejected akumatization.

When this happened, it was huge, and it felt like it too.

Not just because of how impressive the feat itself was, but also because of where Chloe was in her character arc.

Chloe was under the impression that Ladybug might never let her be Queen Bee again. Full stop.

She had potentially permanently lost a privilege that really mattered to her, Lila was starting to get inside her head, and she was becoming mean to Sabrina again.

By all accounts, Chloe should've been in the stage of her arc where she started to revert back to her old self. The old Chloe would've accepted Hawkmoth's words without a second thought.

If this was the conventional Zuko-style arc that so many writers try and fail to replicate, this would've been the scene where it seems like she may not actually get redeemed, and would fall back on old patterns of hers. Which is an interesting enough arc on its own.

But we instead have a girl who doesn't have any way of truly knowing better, has no good role models, and is close only to people who enable her worst behaviors. And she chooses to be good.

Her worst fears are starting to come true, nobody seems to have any care or respect for her, and a smarter and more experienced grown man is using all of these negative emotions against her to mind control her. And she still chooses to trust the process and work to gain back Ladybug's trust. Exactly like Ladybug told her to.

The one time she was given really good advice, it stuck with her.

This is the moment that flat-out confirms that Chloe can be redeemed, and actively wants to be better.

Not only did she not get akumatized, she almost made it look easy.

But the show still makes it perfectly clear that this wasn't an easy feat by any means.

She was visibly exhausted and scared after the akuma left, breathing heavily like she almost just drowned.

But the important part is that she did it. She didn't get akumatized. And she is shown to be rightfully proud of this fact.

It's also interesting to note that no other character has ever broken out of akumatization, mid-akumatization.

In the seasons to come, several people would be breaking out of akumatization after they had already been akumatized. But Chloe is the first, and only, person to reject akumatization before it even took hold.

That's how you give a moment like this the emotional weight that it deserves, by letting it stand on its own and not bombarding your audience with the same scene played out by several other characters.

Chloe was the only one to do this, and that shows that she could bring something special to the team if she actually got the chance to be a heroine again. It makes us consider the possibility that her stubborn and argumentative nature might actually end up being a silver lining. She can still be herself while saving people. In her own way.

She can be a hero. She can become a better person. And she doesn't have to change a thing about herself.

It would be a really nice message to send.

Which just makes it all the more disappointing when it doesn't amount to anything.

If the point of her character was that she could've been better, but became worse instead, that would've made for an interesting sort of tragedy.

But that's not what it is. I know that's not what the writers intended because if that were the case, then Ladybug would've probably had some lines about how much potential Chloe had, and how well she was doing before she went back to her old self.

We don't get any of that. What we get instead is the show and characters acting like Chloe was always as bad as she is in seasons 4 and 5.

She never actually liked Adrien. She was never kind to her father or Sabrina. She never wanted to get better.

And that's just not true.

Sorry, the main point of this post was to showcase the difference between important moments that were given the appropriate emotional weight, and those that weren't. But I just went off on a bit of a tangent there.

God. Even when this show gets something right, it gets like ten other things wrong.

Anyway, TDLR: If you want a moment to be significant, let it be significant. Let it make big changes that actually matter. Don't be a coward who's too afraid to change the hierarchy of your story in any kind of way that matters.

If you want a moment to have an impact on your audience, give it time to breathe on its own, and don't repeat it for at least a little while after.

And for God's sake, if an ability is a big deal, then don't let some unimportant side character that no one cares about also have that ability. It just makes it seem like it's not.

#miraculous ladybug #ml #mlb #miraculous spoilers #ml spoilers #ml s4 spoilers #ml s5 spoilers #miraculous analysis #miraculous critical #writing #writer #writing advice #alya cesaire #nino lahiffe #chloe bourgeois #rose lavillant #ml rose #jalil kubdel #hawkmoth #gabriel agreste

[uptoolateart]

In Crocoduel, when Shadow Moth says, 'And what could be worse than not being loved by your own father?'

Some irony there.

#ml analysis #shadow moth #ml shadow moth #ml gabriel agreste #gabriel agreste #adrien agreste #ml adrien #ml s4 #ml season 4 #ml crocoduel #mlb analysis #ml thoughts #mlb thoughts #gabriel agreste's a+ parenting

[glitterizedocean]

Video by @iwasbored777

#miraculous ladybug #miraculous lb #marinette dupain cheng #ladybug and chat noir #mlb fandom #love square #mlb s4 #miraculous analysis #leave marinette alone challenge #marinette deserves better #if you say its her fault #you're shit #Youtube #ml analysis #ml marinette

[theerurishipper]

I did "quick math", and only ML Villains that aren't abusive parents (so are candidate for "Marinette's villain"), are:

Felix

Chloe

Lila

Mr Cash

Techno-Pirate

Su-Han (arguably)

From this list, let's eliminate characters that are portrayed as "nemesis-es" to other characters. Characters that "stay" are:

Chloe

Lila

Su-Han

From that three, Chloe would be (in "perfect world") successfully redeemed in S2, Lila is complete Plot Device that only appears when Writers need certain characters (Alya, Kagami, etc.) to act "against Marinette", but it's (normally) OOC for them (because "Lila convinced them"), and Su-Han is either "Useless Neutral" (in S4) or "Luka's heroic mentor" (in S5)

End Summary: Marinette literally stopped having ANY "personal nemesis" in S2, and it somehow "stayed that way" through 3 whole seasons

Damn, that's a great analysis, and you bring up a great point. Marinette is literally so irrelevant in her own story that she stopped having a personal nemesis back in Season 2! That's crazy. No wonder they had to force and rush a sudden rivalry with Gabe to make her seem relevant in the story that's supposed to be about her. Free my girl, the writing did her so dirty. She deserved so much better than this.

Thank you for your ask!

#MLB #Marinette Dupain Cheng #Asks

[kisilinramblings]

Do you think Marinette has trauma in s4/has trauma from Chat Blanc? I've seen people say that she doesn't because she doesn't have multiple breakdowns or wake up from nightmares in multiple eps or constantly think about Chat Blanc. Or that the show needs to show it more explicitly and frequently for it to count

First, thank you for your patience, Anon!

Second, I’m no psychologist nor therapist, but as far as I know, nightmares and flashbacks are only a few of the many symptoms and manifestations of Post-Traumatic Syndrome Disorder (and according to the US Department of Veteran Affairs and common reactions after trauma, they are even regrouped has one and single item). 

Meaning that if you only focus on those because this is all that you know how PTSD is visually represented in fiction, then you are missing on other key symptoms that hint someone may have PTSD. I say “may” because you need to check a certain number of symptoms to have a diagnostic.

 Anyway, I recommend @gentil-minou 's ml psychology analysis on Marinette during S4 (although, it was written right after Kuro Neko and is missing a few episodes, but nonetheless a very good starting point).

Some will agree Marinette has indeed PTSD, but disagree that Chat Blanc is the cause. For this, I will refer to what Jonathan Decker - licensed therapist and co-creator and co-host of the YT channel Cinema Therapy - says when he summarizes PTSD and the trauma that cause it :

“PTSD occurs when you think your world is safe and then realized that it isn’t”.

Marinette as Ladybug, as a superhero, deals with danger everytime she is facing an Akumatized. But she always finds a solution at the end. She always figures out her Lucky Charm, always find a way to grab the akumatized object, break it and free the victim from Hawkmoth. Plus, her supepower allows her to restore any damage done by the Akumatized and the consecutive battle. So, it always work out and if she ever fails, she can raises again and try something else (though she may or may not need a little pep talk). And the reason why she accepts to be a superhero in the first place is in order to help her friends and loved ones (Alya in Origins).

But despite being a superhero, Marinette also realizes she herself is not immune to akumatization. She has negative emotions too therefore it is a possibility and there were close calls too. The first instance is during Zombizou. Marinette knows her negative emotions originally attracted an Akuma. During Heroes Day, she saw an illusion showing an akumatized Ladybug fighting Chat Noir. In Chameleon, she almost got akumatized but manages to avoid it. And during the episode Ladybug, she got a really close call of being akumatized as well to the point she did not resist and could have given her Miraculous to Scarlet Moth.

But the thing is she knows and accepts her own vulnerability. She is human like everyone else around her and can fall victim of her negative emotions. During S2-S3, she has a network. She has Chat Noir. Master Fu could also help then since he can distribute the Miraculous like he did during Party Crasher when she is incapacitated. There are rules like maintaining the secret identity between Chat Noir and her, so if one is ever akumatized, the other still has a chance. 

But while she knows her own vulnerability and can deal with it with rules (control) and back-up plans, there is one person she never thought would actually be akumatized. And that is Chat Noir. 

Brainwashed or incapacited by akumatized villain power? Sure, happened plenty of time. 

Arriving late for whatever reason? Harder, but it’s manageable.

But an akumatized Chat Noir? What it the world happened to him?! 

All she hears is that their love lead to this post-apocalypse. Chat Blanc was clear that they were both in love and dated each other and that their secret was discovered by Hawkmoth and he used it against them. Chat Blanc even call her by her real name revealing her the secret identity rule fell apart and was breached.

Marinette is not only confronted to a future where her partner is indeed akumatized, she also witnesses her future self died unable to save her partner and everyone else.

Usually, when Marinette fails, she can try again and something else. But here, that failure was fatal. Game Over. The shock is even greater when she never thought Chat could be able to do such a thing. Akumatized normally spares their loved one. But in this scenario, no one was spared. Everything and everyone was destroyed. 

Of course, Ladybug was greatly upset and questionned Chat Blanc about it. All he says was that it was an accident. Not only that, she even see that Chat Blanc has the potential to put an end to the world. 

That is the main difference with everything else. I bolded the elements that play into triggers to Marinette during S4. 

Truth, Lies, Gang of Secrets, Crocoduel, Mega Leech, Sentibubbler, Glaciator 2, Ephemeral, Kuro Neko, and of course Strike Back all have parts of the answer. 

Truth : Marinette is witholding her secret identity from Luka who she is dating. And it caused him to be akumatized who is out to find her secret which would get known by now Shadow Moth. Not only Marinette breaks with Luka at the end because her secret identity is an obstacle into establishing a mutual relationship with him and it will only hurt him, she also decides she cannot allow herself to date anyone.

Lies : LB’s reaction as Chat Noir tell his plan to sacrifice himself in order to drive Lies’ attention is more panicked than usual. Like, compare it to Gamer 2.0. She doubts herself about being able to save him and protect him. 

Gang of Secrets : She distances herself of not just Chat Noir, but her friends as well. The latters get akumatized because of that rejection. At the end, Marinette breaks because she cannot support all that pression all alone anymore and tells her secret to Alya. 

From that point on, Marinette relies more and more on Alya over Chat who is her partner. That is a survival mechanism. And also, subconscious. 

Crocoduel : I’m putting it here because it feels like Marinette has projected a lot of her Chat Blanc trauma into Luka after breaking-up with him (or at least, it is starting to be build that way). Thus why she is avoiding Luka altogether at this point because she doesn’t want to have the Talk™ even though she need to talk to him one day. To be fair, she always has that tendency to avoid hard discussion. But her thinking Luka would be akumatized because of her again feels that there is more to it than what happened during Truth. Marinette has a wild imagination, but even Alya is thinking that Marinette is exaggerating and fails to understand Marinette’s perspective there.

Mega Leech : There is a little scene in which Chat Noir is brainwashed by Malediktator without her knowing and grab her -- which she obviously didn’t find it funny -- but this episode is the start of Ladybug building a bigger team to assist her out as part of her solution to her problem. The writers even make a foreshadowing through Chat Noir when he says “Hey! Wait for me, guys! Group pose!”. Which later plays out for both Ephemeral and Kuro Neko.

Sentibubbler : The obvious one because of the Chat Blanc cameo during Marinette’s nightmare. I let you read @geekgirles​ ‘s excellent analysis about Marinette’s subconscious.

Glaciator 2 : I stand by this, but the gossip news about Ladybug and Chat Noir dating triggered Ladybug. Thus why she becomes so upset. And since she never told Chat Noir about the Chat Blanc timeline (that he was akumatized because they were dating in said timeline), he is not understanding what she is currently living and worst, he was putting oil in the fire with his jokes there even if his intentions were just to relax the situation. 

Ephemeral : I think this one goes without any further explaination, no? Whole episode is about the secret identity. Sass having to use his Second Chance power without a Holder to this very moment is a huge indicator that she was about to make an horrible mistake that would have disastrous consequences. And it reinforces Ladybug’s belief it is better off to not have any identity reveal in the first place. 

Kuro Neko : Similar beginning as Ephemeral. Except this time, Chat Noir is demotivated (read depressed) due to Ladybug keeping him in the dark and putting him at a distance throughout the season. And Ladybug is not noticing how much her actions and solutions to avoid her trauma are affecting him. Ladybug also doesn’t think clearly once she sees a huge Black Cat with a bell. Not only is she convinced that is an Akumatized Chat Noir, she wrongly believes the bell is the akumatized object. Her trauma is leading her to those assumptions even when evidences are pointing out elsewhere.

Strike Back : The dialog between LB and CN who are both affected by Risk. How Ladybug has taken all those risks in order to protect him (when she took that decision by herself, without consulting with Chat first). And of course, because she never told him about the Chat Blanc timeline, he cannot understand her pov. 

To me, when you pay attention (and watching the episodes in order helps too) there is a build up. Of course, this post is a quick sum up of an entire season. If you want a more profound analysis of Marinette’s actions through season 4, I invite to watch Youtuber Toon Ruins video essay on S4 Marinette.

And please note that, as season 5 is about to start, the Chat Blanc trauma is still lingering. And you cannot properly fix something unless the core gets adressed. Adrien and Marinette fixed a lot of what they thought were the problems, when they haven’t adressed the cause of said problems. So, yeah, Chat Blanc trauma arc isn’t over yet.

#miraculous ladybug #ml season 4 #marinette dupain-cheng

[seeasweetsmile]

To my miraculous fans followers

I'm sorry but more the serie continues, more I’m turning myself into the dark side (aka the ml salt).

Maybe you saw that I didn’t reblog gifs from episodes since S4 (just a few) like I did for S1-S3 and to be honest, the wait between seasons/episodes and the way I’m slowly detached myself from the show to discover others cartoons or animes didn’t help either.

For S4 and mostly S5, the traitement of the characters, the Ladynoir/Adrinette chaotic relationship, the way Lukanette and Adrigami were killed at the first two episodes of S4, Marinette’s hypocrisy, Gabriel’s madness and his growth grudge towards Marinette, Chloé’s caricatural treatment, Lila being mastermind, no adult has a brain anymore, even if there’s globaly good ideas and so much potential, the fact they were awkwardly or badly executed were a pain to watch.

And you know what is the most painful? I loved that show.

Because is that : I loved that show.

It’s been 7 YEARS (almost 8 years in september if I remember correctly) since the serie debut, and like so many fans, I grew attached to the worldbuilding, the characters, the bond between all of them, the humor or the banters, the lore about the miraculous, the design of the superheros and the supervilains, their powers and how complex/funny/interesting they were... and if you have the inevitable urge to read/write fanfics, look/create the fanarts, or even read analysis/meta post about the episodes, you grow even more attached to the characters and the show!

But when you watch from a objective point of view, you realize there’s so much problems consistency issues (I don’t list them, others fans on tumblr and salty hashtags do it better).

Like I said in a previous reblog, if the writers didn’t want to make episodes just for shocked the viewers (remember when they said each episodes of S4 were equivalent of Chat Blanc??) because all the excessive drama around ladynoir or adrinette, if they didn’t push these things to the extra way, if they didn’t get anyone involved (Alya, classmates, adults) to tell Adrien and Marinette what to think or what to do, it could have been so much better. I firmly believe that friendship is a fondamental piliar to any relation. Adrinette started with a good way (cf origines), but they shaped Marinette into another girl who idolazed Adrien without sincerly knowing him (and when they start to give Marinette some retrospective of her behaviour, what we got? we got Alya to tell her she kNoW AdRiEn instead of listening genuinely her best friend and step back), and Adrien, even though he sincerely liked Marinette and held her in high esteem, he ends up becoming the perfect boy madly in love with her who forgets everything as soon as she is in his field of vision or as soon she breathes. If the others characters had LISTENED to Marinette when she questioned herself and preferred to remain friends with Adrien because she realized she didn’t fully know him, and if the others characters had LISTENED to Adrien when he told them he wasn’t agree with their crazy plans (they didn’t listen and the MCs sighed, abandonned their spine column when the classmates insisted a little bit too much), I repeat myself ; it. could. have. been. so. much. better.

To leave Marinette and Adrien figuring out how to do the things at their own rythm. Instead of a healthy, good and solid friendship that transform into romance, we get a forced ship. Because “ThEy MaDe FoR eAcH oThEr” like everyone said in millions times (I was temped to rewatch since the beggining to counts exactly how much the characters say this stupid sentence but I’m not strong enough). And they say this as if we were dumb and we didn’t know Adrinette was the endgame since day one.

Also, another thing that bug me : since S4 to S5 –and I don’t know if anyone felt that– but I have this distrubing impression that Marinette and Adrien mostly  were just puppets in the theater/playhouse and they didn’t have a soul. Sometimes it push me out of the show when I watch the episodes.

Anyways, if you made it until here, thank you for reading my rant post. Two more episodes to left for S5 that will air early july (I read the script of the finale and boy...) and I still don’t know if I will watch the S6. With Gabe and Chloe out of the picture, Lila stepping as main vilain (still wait for her background) and Emilie being here, maybe they’ll do something correct ? But as I said in a previous post, if I watch the first few episodes and if it irrated me, I’ll stop.

I’m tired to hurting myself.

#ml salt #ml writers salt #ml spoilers #ml season 5 spoilers #adrinette salt #ml fandom salt #my post

[ilikekidsshows]

Thank you for all of your meta/analysis post! I've been binge reading your ML post and sadly, I too has lost interest in miraculous ever since s4 and even more so when I saw a clips that kind of confirmed that at least Kagami and Felix are senti. If Adrien too is a senti then it's no longer the story that I want to watch, after he's degraded to become a sidekick by s4, thinking that he'd be something less than a human just sadden me greatly especially since I've been in similar position as him and I'm always want to see how he free himself. But if he's a senti then his life is at the mercy of his cousin and even though felix said that the act of creating and deleting a sentimonster is monstrous and he won't do that, it still doesn't sit right for me. I want a story about a child who's abused by their BIOLOGICAL parents and try to get free from that toxic environment, not another Disney-esque story where the child is abused by their step parents and need a magic to break free or a prince charming to save them. Oh well it was good while it last I guess.

Thanks! Yeah, a lot of us who like Adrien a bit too much are dropping the show after we saw how season four treated him. Frankly, I was actually briefly worried that season five might end up being good, because then I'd have to watch season four to catch up. So season five being even worse is technically a good thing since now I don't have to watch "Kuro Neko". Frankly, with how different the show ended up feeling from what got me into it, I consider the start of season four a retooling of the series and seasons 1-3 the original Miraculous.

Apparently the new take on what real life family situation SentiAdrien parallels is artificial semination/fertility treatments, to try to deflect from the accusation that the concept demonizes unconventional family structures. However, that just means they're now demonizing fertility treatments. There are sects who fully believe that getting fertility treatments is going against some higher power that has decided that you'd be an unfit parent (many fundamentalist christian groups naturally believe this). Having the couples who resorted to magical fertility treatments always include at least one person who by all rights shouldn't have kids (Tomoe, Mr. Fathom according to Félix and supposedly Gabriel) is very much in line with this kind of thinking.

There's a reason I've been saying "the Sentimonsters better not be a metaphor for anything". The thing is that the very concept of "sentipeople" is so misguided that it will end up demonizing whatever group it's trying to drum up sympathy for. In addition, the instant you start to think about what being a Sentimonster would mean to a person, it becomes horrific. I can't see there being a satisfying conclusion because I don't care if the Amok or Peacock are in the hands of someone trustworthy: it's inherently wrong for anyone to have that power over another person. And Félix isn't even trustworthy.

If the 2002 He-Man was in Miraculous, he'd crush the Peacock Miraculous into dust and free Duusu to return to concept space. It's really the safest and the only morally correct choice.

#ml salt #today on the 'can you imagine how nightmarish it would be to be a sentimonster?' show #dats chats #sentitheory salt

[purrincess-chat]

4 seasons rooting for the ls to get together and now that there are finally together, people STILL have problems?????

I keep seeing people say that Ladynoir was ruined and that the entire ladynoir conflict in s4 was pointless if they weren't going to be together.

again this goes without saying, but how can ml, a superhero romcom show be forcing allonormativity by having the leads get together? Was it going to be any different had it been Ladynoir? Of course not.

Yeah, I've come to the conclusion that a lot of people didn't get the same literary analysis training that I did in high school. Like ML doesn't have the most airtight writing all the time, but I'm pretty sure the whole point of the s4 conflict was so they would be platonic this season... Like that became super clear to me looking back at Glaciator 2 after this season.

And of course, all of these people forget that they literally are together. I saw someone crying in the tag the other day about how they were pissed because their ship sank (MC) so another could run (adrinette). And I'm like, babe 🤦‍♀️ That's not how the love square works. I don't know what to tell these people. It's opinions like that that make me realize we don't deserve the reveal bc people don't know how to act 😂 Like how dare the show that has been propping up a m/f relationship since day 1 finally let that m/f ship get together. People are really gonna say they didn't see that coming? Idk what people were expecting. 😂😅

#ml spoilers #cat replies #asks #s5 discourse

[fearlessinger]

I'm not sure if you still watch MLB, but I recall your analysis about the Love square during the NY special! I'd love to hear your take on the new episode Elation, particularly MariChat and Ladynoir!

ahh sorry Anon, I stopped watching ML at the end of S4. A lot of the show's choices all through S4 kinda... made it stop working for me. As a whole. I've seen the gifs of Marichat kissing tho! Good for them.

#miraculous ladybug #oh whoops should i tag this for spoilers #ml s5 spoilers #ml spoilers

[coccinelle-et-chaton]

fun little parallels in Optygami 😃

I said i wasn't going to shut up about it and I'm here to deliver.

"You are no longer needed."

Remember Chat Noir's worst nightmare was Ladybug secretly wanting to get rid of him? Remember "If it doesn't change things between us, then I'm good with it" LITERALLY in the first episode in the season?

What do you think is gonna happen in episode 26 😃

DO NOT TOUCH ME

#what this is: me crying in the corner bc from chat's perspective his worst nightmares are becoming true #what this is not: enforcing the sentiadrien theory #i am: crying already #i'm not ready to see them break this sweet kind boy #adrien my baby you deserve so much more my son so much more #zag is really saving the worst for last 😃 #that one tweet where thomas said if we thought gang of secrets was too intense then we would for certain need therapy by the end of s4 i- #ml spoilers #ml analysis #miraculous ladybug #adrien agreste #chat noir #ml ANGST #sadrien angstgreste

[geekgirles]

The moment you realise the reason Félix could fool Ladybug in Strike Back is because he learned during their first encounter that in order to pass up as Adrien around her he couldn't be pushy or she'd be able call to call his bluff immediately.

Even when my girl wins, she loses

#miraculous ladybug #ml #mlb #ml spoilers #ml leaks #ml season 4 #ml season 4 spoilers #ml season 4 finale #ml s4. 26 #strike back #ml analysis #ml s3. 23 #Félix #marinette dupain cheng #ladybug #adrien agreste #chat noir #félix graham de vanilly #flairmidable

[sunfoxfic]

I think any discussion of whether or not Ladybug trusts Chat is incomplete if you don't consider that she 1) does not know how much he wants/needs to be trusted and 2) considers the "trust" she's been given a burden on herself.

Many people will readily admit that Marinette struggles to conceptualize mindsets outside of her own, and you're never more than a couple degrees of mutuals away from the take that Master Fu is evil for trusting teenagers with the responsibility of the Miraculous and the Miracle Box. We all saw how much she was hurting in Gang of Secrets. And yet I've never seen it discussed that Marinette may, consciously or subconsciously, be keeping secrets from Chat as a way to protect him from all the pain she went through. Because she doesn't realize that he doesn't have the same issues as she does when it comes to watching kwamis. Because he enjoys being needed and the company would be welcome in his room, whereas the kwamis explicitly isolated Marinette from her friends in GoS. Because he wants to be needed.

"Marinette isn't thinking about Chat Noir's feelings when she's making decisions about what to and not to tell him this season" isn't entirely wrong, but it doesn't feel quite right, either. "Marinette isn't considering that Chat Noir's feelings might differ from hers, and she's trying to protect him the best way she knows how, while also balancing a dozen other crises at a time and also being a teenage girl" is much more complete and accurate, imo.

#ml s4 #ladynoir conflict #ml analysis #marinette dupain cheng #adrien agreste

[ct-multifandom]

I was gonna edit my long post (link below) full of all things episode nine: reaction, analysis, details, but I decided that there’s enough on there already so this gets its own post

The artistic side of the episode

Apparently the creators wanted people to pay attention to animation, and while DQ is DQ, what I found interesting was the juxtaposition between Marinette’s house and Adrien’s house, or rather Marinette’s daily life outside of school vs Adrien’s.

Room 33 is covered in loud art in all sorts of vibrant colors, and it has huge windows to let in the sun. Marinette’s room is all pink and homey. Both are covered in creative projects and pieces of self-expression. Marinette’s friends are also brightly colored, all dressed in their own candy-colored styles and congregated close together. They emanate support, warmth, and positivity.

Even in the evening, after Marinette loses connection with them, they’re worriedly clustered in the corner of her room, waiting for her to come home safe. At first Alix tried to reassure everyone that she’ll be fine, but as time passes they aren’t so sure anymore. The colors are muted here to represent their concern. This part passes so quickly, so I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that nobody’s talking about it, but it was so cute. They care about her sm.

On the other hand, Adrien’s life is the polar opposite. Everything is black and white with the occasional red accent, and the rooms are so spacious that everyone feels far apart. All of Gabriel’s guests wear black and hide their faces, and even Adrien’s family and friends don’t introduce anything more than an extra primary color.

Everything is so manufactured and performative, from the pretentious high society “clubbing” to the actual interactions between Adrien’s family and Gabriel’s inner circle. Even the creative work, Gabriel’s designs, feel uninspired and robotic.

Even tonally and plot-wise, the Marinette and Friends part of the episode was filled to the brim with comic relief as everyone played off each other while the Agreste part was pure serious lore, dark in tone, making the finer details of Adrien’s environment feel foreign.

What this episode shows us visually is how Marinette’s typical after-school life is full of warmth, vividness, and trust while Adrien’s is a dull and cold reality where everyone around him is hiding something behind a literal or metaphorical mask.

#miraculous ladybug #ml spoilers #gabriel agreste #marinette dupen chang #ml thoughts #adrein agreste #ml #miraculous #ml season 4 #miraculous s4 #miraculous season 4 #miraculous spoilers #ml season four #ml s4 #ml s4 spoilers #ml s4e9 #miraculous analysis #ml analysis

[kisilinramblings]

The ending scenes of Wishmaker had a lot of development and foreshadowing. 

On the positive note, both Adrien and Marinette are moving on. The theme of the future isn’t as scary for them anymore. They feel ready to tackle it on even though they were so lost at the beginning of the episode.

Adrien (as he is looking a picture of him with his mom) : I may not remember my childhood dream, but that’s okay. It’s time to focus on the future and find my inner music like Luka said.

Adrien steps forward and while he accepts part of his past, he decides that what matters is what is ahead of him. He sets himself in a quest to find himself. Which contrasts with his scene with Kagami inside the art club at the beginning of Lies where he thought he knew himself.

Kagami : These are all modeling poses. Try something that is more natural, more you.

Adrien : What about meow! Err.. I mean, now.

Kagami : No. You are not at all natural. 

Adrien : Yes, I am. I promise. This is the real me.

Kagami : No! It’s you when you are being silly.

Adrien : What if I’m being silly I’m really me?

Adrien has arrived at a point where he is questionning where he stands. He said so at the beginning of the episode. Both about his civilian and superhero sides of him.

Plagg : Don’t you want to continue to model?

Adrien : I don’t think so, Plagg. I’m doing it now because my father asked me to and I realize now I don’t know what else I want to do. I’ve never asked myself that question...

Plagg : What do you think of Chat Noir as a career?

Adrien : Well, since Ladybug keeps giving Miraculous out to other Holders, one day, she’ll probably won’t need me anymore.

Adrien realizes his life and role is either controlled or dependant of others because he personally doesn’t know what he wants for himself. And this is one of the reasons that lead for Chat Blanc’s akumatization to turn awry. Because he was torn and lost. Because the two most important people of his life were trying to influence him in opposite direction when he was in an extreme vulnerable mental state that didn’t allow him to think for himself.  And because he lost control of himself, his powers went out of control too.

And in that timeline, because he was living a dream, CB!Adrien had never mentally prepared himself to find his own voice before the reality punch him in the face.

Now, it is too early to say that Chat Blanc has been fully avoided, because there is still a lot of work to do, but after Wishmaker (along with Optigami, Sentibubbler and Rocketear), Adrien is on the right path to find his voice and find what he truly wants for himself.

As for Marinette...

Marinette (facing the choices ahead of her) : You know what? I’ve decided I’ll do it all! I’ll be Ladybug. I’ll design clothes, jewelry, furnitures, space rockets! I’ll be Luka’s best friend and I will love Adrien!

Fluff : But how are you going to do it at the same time?

The choice of Fluff in this particular scene is very clever. 

Fluff is the Kwami of Evolution and is heavily associated to time. Their Miraculous is a watch and their superpower allows their holder to time-travel.

But there is more to that. It is a recall to Timetagger. To a discussion Ladybug had with Bunnyx. 

Bunnyx : You can always count on Ladybug. With her around, every problem has a solution. 

Ladybug : How I ever get to be like that...?

Bunnyx : By growing up, Minibug.

This was how Marinette was. Unsure, overhelmed. But look at her now. 

Marinette : I don’t know how yet, but yes, I can do this!

She is boasting with confidence. She is accepting herself how she is. She is most probably chasing two hares at the same time, but she also accepts she will drop it sometimes too. She is confident she can rebound. But while I love how determined she is and isn’t scared of the unknown variables (for now), I cannot help but notice she appears to have forgotten something.

In her enumeration, she forgets to count Chat Noir, her partner. I am a bit worry about this. Being Ladybug means many things to her, but I’m afraid she is solely focusing on the duty of her job and doesn’t realize she is lacking on the human relationship aspect of her job with her partner. 

I mean, it’s great that Marinette loves herself now and feels she can face anything now. It’s a great step she has accomplished since the end of S3 and the show is not subtil about it at all xD Like...

Right after she has come to her conclusions, we get Fabulous Alec appearing on screen with the moral.

Alec : And now we are going to love one another, starting with everyone loving themselves! Because how are you going to love other people if you don’t love yourself?

And both Marinette and Adrien have accomplished that. They have evolved from the selves they were back at the end of Truth and Lies. But now, Adrien needs to build himself enough to face his father, but also to find his place in Ladybug’s team. And Marinette needs to have some important discussions with her partner.

And this is summed up in the ending card

Fabulous Alec is the manifestation of self-love and he reaches everyone with his light, shielding them from Shadow Moth. There are also music notes that creates a barrier. Because Luka’s music allegories have made an impact on both Marinette and Adrien. 

Marinette has her music note and it is as if she owns it. Adrien doesn’t have any note nearby him because he has just begun his personal quest.

We see Ladybug and Chat Noir fighting together while being watched over by Luka who now knows both superherores’ secret identity.

Also, please note where Adrien is place in the picture. He is at the bottom right. And it feels like Adrien is leaving the frame completely. And to be himself, he may need to continue to distance himself in the process. But it also places him in the complete opposite direction where Shadow Moth is. Adrien is heading in a different direction that Shadow Moth AKA Gabriel AKA his father might want him to stay. 

As for Marinette/Ladybug, she is not noticing the growing distance occuring.

#miraculous ladybug #ml season 4 #ml s4 spoilers #ml spoilers #wishmaker #ml s4ep18 #ml analysis

[violetnoirx]

I know we probably won’t get a true reveal here but the fact that they both are touching/looking at their earrings and ring here and said “I have to tell you something” speaks volumes!!!

It means they would trust each other with their identities 🥺

#marichat #ml season 4 #ml analysis #miraculous ladybug #adrienette #ml s4 #mlb #ml season 4 spoilers #ladynoir #optigami

[carpisuns]

ok im seeing people take this comment as a confirmation of the true selves trope and i have some Thoughts lol

i don't think that was a confirmation that chat noir is actually adrien's "true self" but more an expression of his self-perception

adrien's a model. he's used to posing, literally and figuratively. what he shows on the covers of magazines is not his "true self"—that's the image people want to see, and he knows how to give it to them. it's exhausting to have to play the role of posterchild all the time because that isn't really him

but neither is "chat noir." it's really clear that adrien kind of puts on a persona when he suits up, and he leans into his natural goofiness extra hard because it's fun and freeing. but he also uses that humor to deflect a lot, and he tends to push back his feelings to keep up the fun-loving, carefree facade of chat noir. in a lot of ways, i feel like the mask wears him as much as he wears the mask.

i think maybe adrien doesn't really know what is "true self" is like, because he's never been allowed to just be. he is constantly performing, whether it's as the agreste brand posterchild or the wise-cracking superhero. he says that his goofy side is the "real him" because that's the role he prefers to play, but it's still a role. (he even acknowledges that in weredad when he says he “didn’t think chat noir was marinette’s type”—not that he wasn’t her type, but that chat noir wasn’t her type. meaning that he recognizes that chat is kind of a character he made up for himself, that doesn’t perfectly reflect the person he actually is)

so what is his "true self"? it's not "adrien" or "chat"—it's both. all of us act differently in different situations, but the characteristics that come out in one set of circumstances are still as much a part of us as the ones that are currently hidden. of course, we’re closer to our home base/true self when we’re around people we’re comfortable with, and with adrien we see this probably most strongly with nino and sometimes with ladybug or marinette, depending on the situation. those little moments when adrien gets a little bolder and goofier, or chat gets a little softer, or when he shows his disappointment or his loneliness on either side of the mask—those are signs that he feels comfortable enough with her that he can stop worrying about appearances and just let himself exist, however he feels at that moment.

probably the best example of adrien’s “true self” is how he is when he’s alone (or with Plagg). after all, aren't we our most authentic selves when there's no one to perform for? in those moments when he’s by himself, we see kind of a merging of those two sides of him that he has compartmentalized. he lets himself actually feel and express his emotions, and that helps us see who the “real” Adrien actually is—a sweet, soft boy with a big silly streak and a flair for the dramatic, who cares deeply about his loved ones and who longs to be loved the way he loves.

i feel like the fandom tends to put adrien in a box—either the “model adrien” box or the “chat noir” box, and i honestly think that’s a disservice to his character, which is really beautifully and subtly developed by the show writers. this is one of the reasons why adrien is such a fascinating and lovable character, and i hate to see him stripped down to a single, sparse set of characteristics when he is so much more than that.

#ml spoilers #ml s4 spoilers #ml lies #ml lies spoilers #ml season 4 #ml meta #ml analysis #adrien agreste #chat noir #mine #q