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#maybe we will manifest it into D20 together
panigamermauser 7 months
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Thoughts about cut stuff part 5.
Guardian, Daisy and Tadpoles with consequences.
So, I absolutely love what they did with Guardian. 10/10 no comments or changes here.
But I miss Daisy very much tho. And聽cut content suggests that Guardian and Daisy could coexist. Let me explain under the cut.
Aka WE COULD'VE HAD IT ALL scream.
So, for people who didn't experience Early Access, a quick recap.
Daisy introduction was very different from Guardian. You had a very nice scene in the meadow by the river (and apparently, the song 'By the River' WAS about Daisy all along!).
Daisy was coming very hard onto you. They were a very obvious trap. But oh so tempting馃挅 Especially when you were actively prompted to make 'your desire' instead of just 'guardian' in character creator. So ofc you were making what you thought was attractive. Which made whole scene very appealing indeed馃槒
And to make matters worse (in the very best sense!) your companions had their own versions of them.
Cannot remember Lae's for the life of me. But Astarion had Cazador. Wyll had Myzora and Gale had Mystra. Which hit you like a truck, right in the feels馃挃馃挃馃挃
Astarion was SO ANGRY you got 'a wet dream' while he got the worst nightmare of his life馃挃馃挃馃挃
Shadowheart was weird for me as she said 'someone I am attracted to', and I got a vibe she was talking about Tav.聽
I am not sure if it was because of high approval (Shadowheart was always ride or die for my Tav. I never had low approval with her once), so I do not know if she said something different when it was low.
Anyways, you got this feeling of 'wow I lucked out. I got a thirst-trap, and those three got their abusive exes instead'.
Not going to lie, I was looking forward angst and horror of Astarion's origin with Cazdor!Daisy.
Of course, even your nice dream felt like a clear trap, so there was little to no incentive to slurp tadpoles.
So I get why it was changed. Even if I am sad for the loss extra angst of Astarion, Gale and Wyll origins, it was objectively better intro of a character. And I made my peace with it at release.
But... from datamine we learn that Daisy WAS out tadpole and not the Emperor. So they are two totally different and separate characters. So there's no reason for them to not exist in the game world together!
And there was supposed to be an ending option of us falling for Daisy and turning into Illithid who is a part of hivemind too (similar to when you kill Emp at the beginning of Act3).
And now I wish we had Daisy back, as it offers an even better Emperor intro!
So, how to reconcile the two? Make Daisy appear in early Act1, like it was in Early Access, but then make Guardian intervene to save you.
Even if your character resists Daisy at every turn instead of giving in, make it harder each time. Eventually(maybe on third manifestation?) require only a nat20+get player to roll at a disadvantage at the same time. So when your roll fails, you get magic D20 appear and subdue/take over Daisy's form (add a line of 'since you find this form appealing, I'll keep using it' or smth like this, to preserve the mystery of Guardian's identity).
And then you get Guardian scenes as normal. Literally nothing would change after that. If anything, your char will be inclined to trust them even more.
Yes, it would require some obligatory聽Long Rests. But they are needed for companion scenes anyways, and it would allow to bring back Exhaustion mechanic (that was in the game and was cut too). I just think it would be neat in general. And it would make sure players do not miss out on game content!
And it would also explain why Astarion is so eager to slurp tadpoles - Guardian would literally save him from phantom Cazador!
(NGL I want Daisy return more for companion origins than Tav. Don't get me wrong, I adore original Daisy. It fits perfectly with 'horny on main' personality of Wysteria. But think of the ANGST for Astarion, Gale and Wyll origins and cry with me!)
I think Larian folks are perfectly able to do it. It would require just one new cutscene of Guardian vs Daisy. Daisy cutscenes were done long ago. So just use them and make one more to bridge Daisy to Guardian change.
But I do not think they will do it. They made their decision to rewrite the whole thing. And they chose not to combine those two stories, whatever their reasons were.
And as I said, Guardian storyline is superb as is. It's just datamine really makes me wish for a perfect world where we could have both 馃槶
What they really SHOULD add back is some tadpole-slurping consequences.聽
Right now the only consequence is cosmetic. And only with astral tadpole. You can unlock all low-lvl extra abilities with absolutely zero downsides to you.
So if you play a character who resists the temptation - you get absolutely nothing for your loss of extra powers.
I feel like there should be a narrative trade-off. Giving into power should lock you out of certain endings, at the very least. Maybe even make you into Emperor's thrall (similar to being Astarion Ascended's spawn).
Ideally, corruption should start early on. In Act1 Narrator says that you loose parts of yourself when you use Illithid powers.
So, why is this not a mechanic? We know that mind flayers are pretty much emotionless. So why not start with loss of empathy? You slurped couple of tadpoles? Selfless dialogue options grey out. You slurped a lot? You get only pragmatic options like 'I'll help you if you pay' or being able to help only main quest essential NPCs, and others are regarded as being in your way.
You ate the astral one? Your romance companions(if not tadpilled to the gills too) comment on how cold you are now. Potentially breaking up with you/you murdering them (Balduran/Ansur style).聽
And if they are also tadpilled - you cannot convince them to make good choices in their stories anymore. Mind Flayers do not give a fuck about anyone, but their own power. And if you are taking their powers - you are on your way to be one.
And that's exactly how Emperor wants you to be. He protects you only from merging into hive-mind, not from other side-effects.
I perfectly understand that my ideal version is not feasible. It would require rewriting an absurd amount of dialogues and rescripting bunch of cutscenes. I understand that.
BUT locking out certain endings for tadpilled (being unable to side with Orpheus, for example) should be patched in with the whole ending overhaul (that is NEEDED anyways). Otherwise what's the point in 'resisting' option at all? Couple of lines from Emperor that he is disappointed? Not enough馃槫
Tadpoles are a major part of the game, and yet narratively they mean absolutely nothing. I hate it.
Knowing they were planning to have consequences but chose not to... It makes it even worse. They understood the need to do something about it, and yet decided it was not worth the effort馃様
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lich-slap 3 years
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Not to get into any of the discourse right now (The post I just rebloged says my opinions on the topic better than I ever could) but, can we appreciate how great it is that Misfits and Magic won't be D&D? (it will be a system called Kids on Brooms)
Look, I love 5e, I really do, and I've always loved bending genres. Buuut a lot of D20's campaigns would've been more interesting game-play wise if they were done in another system. (Like actual murder mystery-rpg Mice and Murder would've FUCKED, y'all).
In the Q&A its said that from now on the campaigns will have "the game system best suited for that season's story". And that's so cool!!!! A major actual play like D20 switching to what will possibly be mostly indie games???? That's fucking huge!
There are sooo many cool indie TTRPGS out there! I hope we get an all magical-girl season with Glitter Hearts! And I get chills just thinking about what a Brennan Lee Mulligan City of Mist game might be like (though since it is a majorly urban fantasy setting, I'm unsure if it has a chance :()
It's really nice to see D20's push for more diversity in the industry go beyond casting and crew to the actual systems being used. It's something we can't get from other actual plays (on the regular, at least) because of contractual obligations. WoTC has ruled this industry for too long! There are other games!
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enddaysengine 7 years
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Exploring the Manifest Zone - Episode 1: Introduction
Those of you who've been with me since the beginning may recall that I originally started this blog as a way to improve my writing while having some fun exploring different worlds. I'm going to keep that up, but you might also notice that I've started to branch a bit from the original monster descriptions and plot hooks (no duh!). One of the things that I've been doing recently on the Chronicles of Darkness forums has been Let's Reads of various books, including my ongoing review of Parasite Rex. I'm going to keep doing that, but I'm also going to open up my genres a bit, so you can expect to see Let's Watch and Let's Listen segments in the future on various topics and games.
That brings me to Manifest Zone. Manifest Zone is a podcast about Eberron hosted by Wayne Chang, Kristian Serrano, Scott W, and Keith Baker. It is excellent, and while I haven't finished the first episode, I've gotten some fresh new campaign ideas out of it. What I'm going to aim for in the future is to come out with Let's Listen to Manifest Zone catching my initial reaction to the podcast within a week or two of them being released. These thoughts will mostly be just reactions and unedited, so if you want to get a discussion going, feel free to reblog and comment. Manifest Zone also has a Q&A where they respond in short clips to questions. I won't be replying to those, although maybe I'll compile a bunch of them into a response later on.
So without further ado, Episode 1...
Introduction
https://manifest.zone/01-introductions/
So I know Keith loves Eberron, but I also know that Sci-Fi/Fantasy fans can make creators burnout. The fact that he's still here, still dedicated to a setting that was released 13 years ago and still has yet to see the light of day in 5e is incredible. He sounds so happy to talk Eberron yet again at the start of this podcast, and it is in some ways unbelievable. Eberron has survived and thrived not just because of Keith's grand vision, but because of the person that Keith is.
Keith, if you are reading this, thank you. You've given us far more than we deserve and Eberron fans are spoiled by your love and generosity.
It is fascinating how Wayne, Kristian, and Scott all got into Eberron and why they were motivated to do the podcast. That speaks well to having a variety of perspectives in the podcast. I'm interested to see if I can pull any of Kristian and Scott's ideas from Savage Worlds into Pathfinder. I've debated trying to run Planescape and Eberron in Chronicles of Darkness before, but never really pushed it.
I like the idea of introducing Eberron as a post-fantasy setting. In fact, I will probably include it in my next campaign pitch. Being up front with the fact that Eberron lacks many classic tropes, and the ones it does contain are often deconstructed or twisted in some way is good practice for GMs. I'd toss Eberron much more into Science Fantasy than plain Fantasy.
The way that elven lifespan impacts their culture wasn't something I had thought about until Keith brought it up in the FAQs. It has to be one of the most interesting parts of Eberron for me, even though it's underplayed. If I add another elf culture on a separate continent, I'd be curious what other alternatives are out there for how elves deal with death and memory.
Zilargo is absolutely one my favourite nations in Eberron, and there are numerous reasons for that. One is that gnomes feel like a distinct race with their niche and values that are clearly separate from both dwarves and halflings. Another is precisely the modern socio-political question that the podcast discusses; the question of how far we are willing to sacrifice privacy in the name of public security. 聽I 聽remember very early on when Eberron was first released, and Keith described Zilargo as being one of the scariest places to people who have been brought up in North America's modern culture. Unlike the Sarlona, Zilargo has made some genuinely challenging (and possibly disturbing) 聽political decisions, but the Zil remain relatable and understandable. 聽For all that I would personally absolutely disagree with the way that the Trust runs their country, 聽I can empathise with the why the gnomes made those decisions, and I find the implications for their culture to be fascinating. While Zilargo can fulfil an "evil nation" role in a campaign, their default presentation remains that of one political system amongst many, and they are not obvious villains. Of course, with the Trust, that's precisely the way they like it.
Lifting different storylines into RPGs is a time honoured tradition. Firefly would make for excellent fodder, but I'm more interested in the Lost story. I've heard Keith tell part of this one before, specifically the bit about the roc eating the captain, then the giant cat treating the roc like a songbird. I didn't know the bit about it being inspired by the TV show, but is sounds like an interesting scenario. Maybe I will try to write it up if I ever find the time. Diehard on an airship also sounds awesome.
The unanswered questions about Eberron are one of my favourite parts of the setting, and it is one of the things that Eberron and Golarion have in common. No one knows what caused the Mourning or what killed Aroden (well, Erik Mona knows the latter, but he isn't telling). This goes even further in Eberron than most settings. If you listen to the Speaking Stone segment on pronunciation, Keith says that the reason there are no guides how to say the names of the nations is that there is no one correct way to say them. The design team deliberately left out pronunciation guides so that Storytellers could have NPCs from different regions pronounce names differently.
The point that Wayne makes about the joy of trying to piece history and little clues together is so true. This is a common thread I see in Planescape, Chronicles of Darkness, and Eberron. History is important to all three, and they tell you as much with the spaces that are left in between what is explicitly said. They challenge you to find what fits in those gaps. There's a reason I have timelines for all three setting that I meticulously add details to so that I can see how everything relates together. It is no surprise that those three settings are my favourites.
"Wide magic" is an excellent term to describe Eberron that I haven't heard before. I like it. It's the same way that Firefly isn't high technology, its wide technology. I am guilty of calling Eberron magipunk though. The historian and teacher in me love the speculative fiction portion of Eberron's "magic as technology" premise. It is so interesting to see our world through a "mirror, magically."
The lock and key model of focus items with Dragonmarks is neat. I'll be using that one in the future.
The setting expectations bit is all very solid advice. The concept of failing forwards is very prominent in Chronicles of Darkness, and it adds to the game greatly. I'm wondering if there is some way to reward major failures that create drama and story twists in d20 like CofD does with dramatic failures and players being able to choose to turn failures into dramatic failures. Maybe extra uses of per day abilities? I'll have to think on that one.
Next episode is on the Last War. Super psyched for it.
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