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redphlox · 3 years

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How Touya can be Saved

I’ve talked before about why I think Shouto will save Touya, and now I want to talk about how. No doubt saving the eldest Todoroki child will be a combined family effort, but I want to specifically talk about Shouto’s role in this because it will be the culmination of his character arc. I also want to tie in how Dabi can make himself seen and understood by crying tears of blood in front of his family. Finally receiving validation after desperately needing it his entire life will be the key to his salvation.

As of chapter 298, Shouto already empathizes with Touya; he feels Touya’s hate and even recognizes Dabi is the person Shouto himself was before the Sports Festival. Shouto is extending his empathy and understanding to his brother the same way he reacted to Iida during the Stain arc in chapter 53, “Todoroki to Iida.”

Having empathy for Dabi’s resentment is only the first step in reaching him, though. That shared rage doesn’t completely validate Dabi’s pain as an abuse victim, which is something Shouto has yet to recognize about himself. Shouto’s anger has always been about how Endeavor abused Rei to the point she had to be institutionalized and not how Endeavor isolated him, physically abused him, and robbed him of his childhood. Shouto probably hadn’t stopped to think about how the other Todorokis perceived their family situation because, like most families in this situation, no one talked about the abuse - Shouto even expresses surprise and agreement in 192 when Natsuo confronts Endeavor with the entire family’s pain. Shouto thinks back to the memory of wanting to play with his siblings and realizes that specific day didn't only stay with him but that his siblings remember it and were impacted by it, too.

Like Natsuo, Dabi knows the root cause of their family’s dysfunction was Endeavor, and while he had a problem with what he perceived as each individual member’s blindness to their abuse, he ultimately doesn’t blame the victims and instead assigns all the blame onto Endeavor. Even 10 years later, he still calls Rei ‘okaasan’, Fuyumi ‘Fuyumi-chan’, and Natsuo ‘Natsu-kun’ because he still cares about them and recognizes all of them as victims of a corrupt hero who never set out to be a husband and a father and only used them.

However, Touya's own victimhood has never been validated - in 301 and 302, it was seen that he was the scapegoat for his family, and no matter how much he tried to earn back his father’s approval or call his father out on his unfair treatment, no one was ever on Touya’s side. His mother told him to look away from his father as an example instead of standing up to Endeavor for herself and her children, and Fuyumi and Natsuo were too young to understand and couldn't relate to what Touya went through as Endeavor's prized heir. Touya needs validation that he was abused and neglected. He always has. He still does.

The person in the perfect position to understand what it’s like to be on the receiving end of Endeavor’s impossibly high standards, obsession with surpassing All Might, and quirk training is Shouto. But in order to fully empathize with Dabi and show his brother that he can relate, Shouto needs to acknowledge that he too was a victim. In 292, Dabi basically asks Shouto to validate the pain and suffering Dabi had just exposed in the battlefield, but his question still stands unanswered.

To reach Touya, Shouto also has to show Dabi what kind of person he is - as in, Shouto has to separate himself from Endeavor’s shadow and establish that he too has been holding Endeavor accountable for his actions. We as readers know that Shouto’s entire character arc has been about asking himself, “Who am I?” Often, children who grow up in abusive households struggle with their identity and Shouto is a perfect example of this. This is why he chose his hero name to be his name: Shouto. He’s learning who he is after years of trying so hard to not be his father and becoming exactly like him - cold, distant, tunnel visioned, hateful. It wasn't until he met Inasa that he realized this and wanted to right his wrongs.

Like Inasa, Dabi doesn’t know Shouto at all. Both Inasa and Dabi knew Endeavor and assumed Shouto would be just like him. Inasa had a valid reason to think this of Shouto of course, because Shouto was standoffish and dismissive during the UA entrance exams, but at the time of the provisional license exam Inasa hadn’t learned that Shouto had recognized this toxic side of himself and had begun working towards the kind of person he wants to be. Shouto had to show Inasa the real him, and in a similar way, he will have to prove this to Dabi. Dabi hasn’t seen Shouto struggle with his identity like we the readers have; Dabi only sees his usurper making headlines and willingly interning with Endeavor. He probably assumes Shouto is proudly training to carry their father’s legacy. Dabi isn’t privy to the nuanced relationship Shouto or their siblings have with their father. All Dabi knows is that Endeavor is seeing and paying attention to Shouto and Shouto seemingly submitting. Dabi has no idea THIS is how it really is:

Showing others who he is is a way for Shouto to process his own trauma and establish his identity. As the son of the #2 hero, Shouto has always had to prove himself to others - that he’s not his father. He’s even had to prove this to himself by accepting his fire side and making it his own in spite of his father repeatedly calling him a creation or a masterpiece. Not being like his father is such a defining trait for Shouto that he feels compelled to tell kindergarteners during the re-licensing exam his life story and his trauma. He literally bore his heart out to these kids because he knew he wouldn’t get through to them unless he was genuine. I think he’ll apply this concept to Touya, too.

The thing about Shouto is that, while he hasn’t reconciled with his own status as an abuse victim, he sees himself as a survivor. He sees himself as someone who managed through a difficult situation and wants to help others get through their struggles too. That's why getting through to these kids was so important to him, why he took it so seriously. These were problematic kids, and instead of calling them brats or trying to intimidate or manipulate them, he tries to get down to their level and relate. Notice he emphasizes how much he struggled in school at first, how his relationship with his father is strained - in his mind, it's something these kids may be able to relate to.

Shouto is someone who sets out to understand and make others feel seen and understood. It's what makes him kind. Shouto probably understands why his father abused the entire family - Endeavor's reasons don't excuse him or earn his children's forgiveness, but it's a reason that humanizes him to Shouto. He himself was a cold, bitter person who now believes people can change if given the right opportunity and self-awareness because this is a lesson he's learned from Midoriya and Inasa. This is also something Shouto can grant Touya: understanding, a listening ear, space to be wrong, and a chance to be seen.

Touya wanted and still craves to be seen, and he has to see in return. He has to realize Shouto isn't his father's puppet. He has to relate to Shouto much like Shouto is relating to him. Shouto will have to pull the same move he pulled on those kindergarteners and tell Dabi his struggles, and then show him he’s making his own path different from their father’s and that the family isn’t blindly following Endeavor anymore or letting him do what he wants. Natsuo has stood up to him, Rei has stood up to him, Fuyumi has admitted to herself she had been trying to play a happy family instead of fixing the internal mess - they as a family will have to show Dabi all of this, and he’ll have to wrap his head around it. He has to realize that his family is different from how they were 10 years ago. This is what I mean by allowing Touya space to be wrong - it’s okay for him to be wrong in assuming all these things about Shouto. Shouto won’t judge him for it.

I've talked before about how the narrative framing as of chapter 309 has set up that a person must express their feelings in a socially acceptable manner before they can be a candidate for saving, and that means crying. As soon as Midoriya saw a glimpse of little Tenko crying, he switched his mentality from "I'll never forgive you" to "I want to save that crying boy." When Toga ran away from Ochako crying, Ochako became concerned and curious. Following this pattern, it makes sense that Dabi also has to show his emotions, but it’s complicated because he can’t cry due to his burnt tear ducts. Every time we’ve seen him cry tears of blood, he’s been alone - he’ll have to cry in front of Shouto and the family for it to sink in that all of Dabi’s destruction and hate stems from deep-seated sorrow and feelings of abandonment. The family does not yet know how the fire that killed Touya started, and they have no idea that Touya’s emotions are linked to his fire and that he died because he was feeling overwhelmingly forsaken and sad. Once they find out, however, they’ll fully understand Touya (hopefully) and recognize they haven’t been understanding him at all. Saving Touya will be difficult because he has to be vulnerable and that's not something he's done as Dabi, but that's where the Todoroki family arc is headed: healing as a family.

As a side note: I’m not saying that the message the manga is giving is the correct one (how you express yourself shouldn’t be a determinant of the help you receive) but it’s what we have to work with. I also think saving Touya will be more complicated than this and will also involve Natsuo, but that’s a meta for another day! ;]

#bnha #dabi #touya todoroki #shouto todoroki #my meta #inasa yoarashi #bnha spoilers #Bnha meta #Mha #mha spoilers

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sepublic · 3 years

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Kikimora’s Motives?

I wonder if Kikimora is motivated to access Belos’ secrets, and that’s why she hates Hunter and tries to kill him?

Like, it’s obvious that Belos has a LOT of secrets and all sorts of weird, hidden knowledge… Kikimora could be like other characters in that she’s extremely fascinated and curious with magic, and/or powerhungry, so it makes sense that her obsession to learn more would drive her to latch onto the Emperor- The mysterious Emperor, with his inexplicable abilities and skills, who can hear what the Titan has to teach!

That might be why Kikimora prizes herself and wants to be Belos’ confidant so much… She wants in on the secrets, she wants to learn more- And someone like Hunter gets in the way of that. Kikimora knows that Belos isn’t invincible nor infallible, he’s struggling and needs help, he can’t do this on his own and needs a person he can trust with most of everything…

So, Kikimora offers herself up- To take advantage of this closeness and trust by Belos, by someone who has no choice but to rely on and trust someone with that… And that’s what she does, for a few decades! Belos needs people to help him with things, his most personal rituals and whatnot… So he needs Kikimora, and by her involvement, she inevitably finds out a LOT of things!

Belos may or may not be aware of Kikimora’s desires, and he might tolerate it simply because he needs someone to help him, anyhow… And Kikimora doesn’t seem interested in betraying him anytime soon necessarily, just being that confidant by his side, who can access Belos’ knowledge and plans as a requirement for her role. But, maybe Belos was wary of Kikimora, which would then influence a later decision in life…

And so in comes Hunter! This young brat, who lived at least a few years before being ‘found’ by Belos… So it’s even less than sixteen years ago, when the Golden Guard came into the picture and usurped everything! For decades, Kikimora has been faithfully acting as Belos’ right-hand witch, she’s schemed and fought and worked to achieve this, those precious secrets, she’s acted as the Emperor’s proxy for him in public!

And this is how he thanks her- By replacing Kikimora with Hunter, this little brat? This nephew, who showed up out of nowhere, because why now, why now does Belos suddenly fall back on this elusive family that he ignored for so long as Emperor? Maybe Kikimora knows the real reason as part of her aforementioned understanding of a lot of things…

But with Hunter, with Hunter as a kid who feels dependent upon Belos, whose entire life is revolving around pleasing his uncle because he actually cares for him, unconditionally… Hunter is more useful and trustworthy as a secretkeeper and a proxy, then. Hunter knows nothing else and seemingly has no desires of his own, he feels obligated to take care of his last family member- So Belos won’t have to worry about Hunter rebelling, he won’t have to worry about Hunter using his position to find forbidden knowledge.

And even if Hunter DID do so, it’d at least be for Belos’ sake, not his own… So, Belos replaces Kikimora with Hunter. Kiki still does her normal duties and legislation, but when it comes to personally caring for Belos? Being trusted by him, being privy to his deepest, darkest moments of vulnerability? Hunter gets in on that, too… That ruins the pride and prestige for Kikimora, as the ONLY one Belos trusts…

But now, Hunter isn’t just with her here- He’s completely replaced her! Hunter is leaving Kikimora out, because he doesn’t trust this gremlin despite her decades of actual experience and willing, ruthless murder for Belos… Because Hunter is ‘family’, so obviously that means more!

And Kikimora is resentful… Hunter doesn’t see Kikimora as truly in it for Belos’ sake, so it’s better to keep her out of the picture, now that someone better-suited for the job is here. And Kikimora, she’s angered by that- She found pride in being the only person that the invincible Emperor could, and HAD to be vulnerable around...

It gave her a certain power, a special superiority- To know that she’d seen Belos at his lowest, and he had to trust and need her for this! So even if it’s not a literal position of power at the top, in a way… Kikimora feels above even Belos, as someone whose health isn’t deteriorating, as someone he’s dependent upon, as someone who takes care of him- And she derives plenty of power from that realization.

Having Hunter come in, taking that special power, that prestigious role away… Taking away Kikimora’s power over Belos, the most skilled witch of all- That displaces Kikimora and knocks her down at least two pegs. And, because Belos has found a new confidant, he doesn’t need to let Kiki in on his later plans and ideas anymore… Effectively barring Kikimora from the knowledge she so craves and desires.

Does Belos not care for Hunter at all, and does Kikimora recognize this? Or at least, understandably believe the Emperor doesn’t care… She overheard everything that went on, so it’s likely that Kikimora is aware of Belos’ physical abuse. That’d motivate her to believe that Hunter isn’t TRULY important to Belos, he isn’t really attached… Meaning there’s less risk and repercussion in being found out, if Kikimora had Hunter killed.

And then Hunting Palismen occurs as we know it- Belos is vulnerable, he needs to let someone in on this moment of dependency, this deep and dark secret… And Kikimora instinctively goes along out of the habit of decades, only to be rudely reminded when Hunter makes it clear that Belos no longer needs her for that, that Kiki can no longer have this kind of leverage over the Emperor in a sense, of being needed by him- Of Belos having no choice but to let someone else see him, and know his weakness.

Kikimora hates that… She likes lording power over others, like when she taunts Lilith- And she likes having information and dirt on others. She likes that sensation of leverage, of knowing something that others don’t, something a person is trying to hide. Kikimora likes to snoop around and know people’s secrets, and wave that in front of them in her arrogance- She’s a little gremlin who controls a huge and powerful dragon, Kikimora potentially has a Napoleon Complex like King… So she compensates through knowledge and other forms of leverage.

Kiki likes to feel better than people, to have her thumb over beings that should theoretically outclass her- Lilith, her pet, Hunter, even Emperor Belos himself! And Hunter is an outlier she can’t control, someone she doesn’t really know, who just sort of showed up out of nowhere- So out he goes! And now Kikimora knows that Hunter was the one who sabotaged her Palisman delivery, and Hunter doesn’t realize that…

Hunter might have his own dirt on Kikimora, he can confirm that Kiki’s Handragon attacked him, it’s no secret that it belongs to her! That could land Kikimora into trouble, but presumably out of his innate mercy and chivalry, Hunter doesn’t tell this to Belos… But still. With how her eye narrows and its pupil shrinks, you can tell Kikimora is up to something- And she plans to weaponized it, no doubt… Because she likes having things as insurance in general.

So if Hunter tries to put her back in line by threatening to reveal her assassination attempt by Belos, who knows? Kikimora might reveal her own hidden ace in the sleeve… And that’ll put the two at a tense stand-still as they try to figure each other out, and navigate. Hunter sees himself as protecting his uncle AND himself, now- And Kikimora is trying to defend her power and sense of control, at being relied upon and needed by others, because she’s needy that way.

As for Belos? Maybe he thinks the competition encourages ‘growth’, he sure likes pitting witches against each other, after all- Hence competition to join his coven. Maybe he’s secretly aware and is amused by it… Maybe he was actually the one who put Kikimora up to the task after all, to ‘test’ his nephew and his resolve and power! Maybe Belos and Kiki are mutually aware of their own selfish desires…

But because they need each other for that desire, because Kikimora prefers the subtle power of being Belos’ confidant –openly being the Emperor would paint a big target on HER back- they can sort of, weirdly, trust each other… Trust the other to act in their own self-interest, which includes their own benefit;

So while they’d gladly sell the other out for a corn chip if the opportunity came up, Belos and Kikimora know it probably won’t ever, so they’re content in their little adversarial alliance! They can count on the other to serve their self-interests, which includes one another out of necessity in the end.

It really is nothing personal, so they don’t take it that way- Belos is using Kikimora, Kikimora is using Belos! But with the Day of Unity, with the ‘Titan’ having plans for Hunter… Well, if Hunter is already here and truly loyal, why not make use of him instead? Belos is cracking down on loose threads and preparing for a merging of worlds, there’s a pivotal moment approaching- So he should play it safe and confront the liability that is Kikimora’s self-interest.

With the likelihood of Hunter betraying Belos and siding with the protagonists, for his own gain, or possibly being rejected by his uncle for petty reasons… Who knows? Maybe we’ll see Hunter demoted but still kept around for whatever plans that the ‘Titan’ has, and Kikimora? Depending on how things turn out, she’ll carefully watch and play her cards, for the right opportunity, and hitchhike off of whatever happens for herself!

She might not have to do much at all, really- Belos might just get rid of Hunter for her, after all! Because Hunter might care, but he’s fettered by the morality that forms the foundation of his concern… And THAT might be the bigger liability after all, unlike Kikimora’s lack of morals. So Belos might recognize that this is playing into what she wants, but so what? She’s more useful to him anyway, and Kiki recognizes this vice-versa and goes along. It’s nothing personal in the end, so it doesn’t hurt to be well-mannered with one another in the mean time, when things are still good.

Maybe Belos and Kikimora will even come to a mutual understanding in regards to their suspicions of Hunter… And THAT will bring back that power and special privilege of being a secret-keeper, that Kiki always wanted! Especially with her knowledge on Hunter being the one who fought her, and the possibility of his palisman being discovered. Kikimora and Hunter have their pro’s and con’s, so Belos has to figure out which is best for him in the end, and Kiki seems more aware of and involved in the competition than Hunter anyway- So points for actually trying!

In Slavic mythology, Kikimora are house demons that can enter through keyholes. Maybe listening at keyholes or going through them plays into Kiki’s desire and ability to eavesdrop on others, unnoticed- And in a scene where she DOES eavesdrop on Belos and Hunter, the doors to his throne room have no keyholes. Which, they originally did in Agony of a Witch, which makes me wonder if Belos is wizening up to Kikimora.

She does seem inquisitive when it comes to Lilith’s bias towards Eda, so what with catching her off guard, and Kikimora might be the kind of person who has a tendency to stick her nose in things and snoop around, much to the detriment and annoyance of others- And she resents being left out as a result. I guess it’s like King’s feelings of abandonment, except way more sinister.

#the owl house #the owl house kikimora #the owl house belos #emperor belos #the owl house hunter #speculation #meta

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life-rewritten · 3 years

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The Eternal Burden of Dea*th and Sisyphus; Sisyphus The Myth Ep 5-8

Well, Hello there, this is a surprise. I didn't actually think I was going to be able to come up with another analysis for the Korean drama Sisyphus The Myth. Mostly because, like in the last four new episodes, it's just been jampacked with too many stories, and plots, and villains and just too many things. So it's been hard, getting an understanding of things. When I analyse shows, I tend to have a map in my head; for Sisyphus, the myth, The Greek Myth was my map. I started to think that there was just a lot of deviation from it, and so it was time to throw in the towel and just leave my first theory and analysis of the show as the end-all, be-all. Nothing, in my opinion, has changed with the overall theme and outline used to predict the show. Still, at the same time, the characters start to muddle up with their selfish tasks, and their childish mindsets and the villains all seem to clump together with no real difference to them at first. I could just like group them into three categories based on the first analysis, but I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that because that's not how writers and directors typically use literature bases to tell a story. And that's why it's been very confusing to place where the story is going, and what is the point of watching these idiotic characters make these mistakes over and over and over again. The reason I was into Sisyphus is because it's a love story; it's a very angsty, forbidden, dramatic, crazy love story between Seohae and Taesul. It is their love that is essentially akin to the metaphor of Sisyphus, the reason for why we are stuck in this infinite loop of misery and suffering. And with these kind of love stories, my heart is affected because all they're trying to do is run away from fate and choose each other, and be with each other no matter what. It's powerful; it's romantic, it's selfish. But it's an exciting premise for a love story.

So I like Sisyphus when I think about the love story; that's all I can really focus on instead of all the time travelling logic, confusion with some plot holes and others. The love story is still interesting, but I also wanted to focus this analysis on showing how much Seohae and Taesul have to suffer for their selfish actions repeatedly. In one perspective, I am appalled by their actions Taesul is such a child, and he's so dumb and selfish, which is very similar to Sisyphus in his own myth, but at least Sisyphus had some benefits when he did something, like he saved his kingdom, I don't know I just hate that Taesul knows what his actions will lead to and yet he's still willing to throw the whole world, his wife's wishes, and his brother's warning to defeat Sigma because of pride. That's essentially what his actions are leading to. It's so annoying. Meanwhile, Seohae gets to unveil her own secrets and storyline, and all I can say is poor her; she's in love with someone who is the constant source of her strife and pain, but what can she do? He's also probably her continuous source of life and purpose, she's just a victim of Taesul's idiocy, but I also think she's just as annoying and dumb as him because she too is repeating the same mistakes over and over again. She's not strong no matter how much she believes in stopping Taesul or getting out of this cursed loop they're in. Now it sounds like because of my annoyance, I dislike this show because the characters are very annoying, but no, I'm just having to state that as much as I do think there's a weakness in directing, writing and character dimensionality, I still like the show. I still want to keep watching it to see how these twos love story ends. It's still powerful to see the effects of an unconditional and desperate love. And that's all that matters, the ability to be entertained and hooked into a story about flawed humans who fall in love and are punished for their flaws. All in all, I still believe there must be some kind of punishment for these two's actions, and so character development is key to later on being added to the story and resolution; character revelations, awareness, and forgiveness. And speaking of some of the kind of punishments that these two do have to go through, this essay is going to be breaking down the goals of each of the villains of Sisyphus and how they can also help us understand what's going on and what's going to happen to this love story unfolding. So let's back to Greek Mythology.

The Hidden Victims of Sisyphus

The first thing we have to focus on when reading the myth of Sisyphus and his adventures with the gods, is the characters. The last analysis focused on how both Seohae and Taesul play the role of Sisyphus in this show and how they both are connected to different parts of the same myth. But in the tale, there are more characters that need to be fleshed out, that need to be brought to light essentially just like the show (these past four episodes), brought to light all these new villains and aims, and character plot twists to show you the severity of the results of these twos Sisyphean actions. Just like with the show, although it may just seem that it's only Zeus and a personification of Dea*th playing the roles as the villains in the myth for Sisyphus, there's actually more characters that all add to the burden of this and have it out for him. So that's important to notice. Let's summarise the storyline of the myth whilst putting these other characters in the spotlight.

Before we even go into the actual myth of the Sisyphus and the boulder storyline. We also need to account for his character storyline and involvement in other tales before we start to see him act up. In fact, before he starts to want to chain and evade dea*th, he angers so many others before him, he already has enemies waiting to get rid of him. And these people are significant because some of the characters in the show mirror them. So before the act of Sisyphus and the boulder, there was so much more to know. Sisyphus angers Zeus by betraying him and making him lose someone he wanted; he does this by telling the god who's the father of the girl that Zeus is trying to steal her. He tricks/manipulates the god to give him wealth and success and this river of prosperity, so in the end, he ends up aggravating both gods, one because he betrayed Zeus, who now has it out for him, but also two because he just like took the most memorable thing from the other god to give him the information.

The Broken Bond of Sisyphus

Here, Sis is seen as problematic by Zeus and others because he's too clever for his own good, he's too cunning, and he's a problem to their power. But this is not just it; also in the story, when Sisyphus is meant to be the king of his kingdom by birth, he has a brother. Surprise? Probably not because surely this has to mirror Tae-san because Taesul has a brother. And yeah, there's a character who represents a familial bond, but in the myth, Sisyphus wants to get rid of his brother; their relationship is a maim in his life, utterly opposite to Taesan and Taesul, which is why I didn't trust Taesan for so long. The brother is Salmoneus.

But the details to know with the brother is that Sisyphus is usurped of his kingdom by the brother, who's connected to greed, naivety, hubris and ego. Something he was rightfully given to by birth (his reign and legacy) was stolen from him by his brother unfairly and just cruelly. And this is the reason for why he hates his brother in the myth and wants to get rid of him. So this is all feeling very different from what's been portrayed in the show; Taesan is apparently risking his life to save Taesul; Taesan has always sacrificed everything for Taesul's happiness and for him to own the company he has, which is the symbol of Taesul's kingdom. It is because Taesul wants to save Taesan that he is causing a Sisyphean effect to the world; he's ruining the world to save and find and bring his brother back to him. That's really confusing.

It doesn't end there, though, because Sisyphus proceeds also to steal his brother's wife by force and have her give birth to fulfil a messed up prophecy about her kids being the ones to get rid of the brother. She doesn't do this; she ends up instead of losing the kids to protect the brother. There's a bit of weird addition to this storyline because Seohae is the only girl who Taesul will have in his heart; he doesn't have any destructive aims as Sisyphus to find someone else, or has he not realised he's already played this role? I'll explain more as we break down this essay even further, but this is important to notice before we start to see Sisyphus enter his futile loop of trying to avoid dea*th, he's already had two big enemies, one is Zeus, who is his final enemy at the end of his story, the one who will later get his way and punish Sisyphus eternally, but two is Salmoneus this character who Sisyphus is meant to love but is betrayed by and wants to steal his possession. You can start to try to place in the show who this sounds like but let's continue.

The Severe Consequences of Sisyphus

So after this part of the myth, Sis goes and has a remarkable reign after his brother's demise; he uses his cunningness and craftiness to get whatever he wants. This angers Zeus so much who then sends Thanatos (a personification for Dea*th) to him undercover, but Sis knows, and so he tricks Thanatos and chains him causing everyone to become immortal in his kingdom. What happens next is Ares, god of war, is very upset with this action because it's making him lose his purpose in the world and his power, he enjoys seeing war lead to people's demise. It benefits the systems for the gods who punish and want to control the mortals as they fit. Sis doing this is making fun of the gods' power and finding a way to lessen their impacts. Ares forces Sis to let go of Thanatos which he does (stupidly), but both Zeus and Thanatos want to get rid of Sis because of revenge, especially Thanatos; his first victim once unchained is as you guessed, Sis. Let's pause because now two more people try to stop or get rid of Sis. Ares is affected by Sis's actions of evading dea*th for all mortals, and that is Thanatos, the actual personification of the person he's hurting and chaining and taking away freedom from. Thanatos is the one who finally at first gets to punish Sisyphus at the end. As of this moment, Zeus, although he's angry at Sis, although he's making threats and watching Sis; he doesn't still feel the need to intervene. He's not yet out properly for Sisyphus until the second part.

The Eternal Punishment of Sisyphus

So Sis goes and gets eliminated. He's sent to where everyone who's gone goes to. But Sis is smart; he finds another way, using his wife to evade the issue. To again mock the gods, this time he mocks Hades and Persephone. I mean, it's obvious why he'd already angered Hades, who could also be in the myth, a different version of Thanatos, but Hades is determined to keep Sis in the underworld. But he uses the disguise of being hurt by love, the mask of vulnerability, hurt and betrayal to make Persophone eager to let him escape the underworld. So he ends up tricking her; this causes Hades to lose it completely, he tries to get Sis back, but Sis is not coming back because he's back to being alive.

So Sis gets to get again what he wants, which is to live a long life as the king with the wife he loves, not the same wife as his brother's) So there's two more, or you can say; one other representation of the gods that Sisyphus has annoyed and angered who wants to get rid of him. We have Hades, his normal way of doing things is in chaos because Sisyphus is messing around and tricking people and making a mockery of him and his own kingdom. And we may also see Persophone as someone (though I don't know properly because she isn't the one who wants to get rid of him, she's the one tricked by the idea of love) who also may feel hurt and foolish for believing him. Either way, Zeus now is tired and frustrated by Sis; he decides to wait for Sis to come back after his old age and punishes him eternally, with the famous boulder. So as mentioned, Zeus is the one who truly ends up hurting Sisyphus with no end in sight. In order to avoid this eternal loop of pain and confusion, Sisyphus needs to defeat Zeus before he comes to this end.

So after this break down of the story, I'm sure you're all wondering, okay, what does this have to do with Sisyphus the myth, because, at first sight, these people all having a problem with Sis isn't very similar in how the show is showing the new issues and villains. And that's why I was confused at first; trying to place who's who and who represents what, was difficult, and I didn't understand what it would help with when trying to understand the show. But it's pronounced when you finally see episode 5-8 which is the new episodes. Remember from previous analysis there's two Sisyphus; Seohae and Taesul, they both take over a version of the myth of Sisyphus, Taesul is in charge of the first story he creates an action that chains Thanatos and causes chaos, he's the one who then is eliminated by Thanatos because of Ares; however, Seohae represents Sisyphus in the underworld, the task to go back to the past and convince a lover not to make a mistake, the act of using love to trick the gods so she can go back and stay with her lover avoiding the chaos that happens after her demise/his demise.

So the first thing to know to understand the villains is to place them with the right Sisyphus, which is represented in their story arc. This is so important because when you start to make a list of who is trying to get rid of Taesul for Taesul's actions vs who is trying to stop Seohae for her own actions, you start to understand which villain is which. You begin to see how the other characters in the show play a role and mirror a character in the myth, but you also start to predict and understand what happened to lead to the apocalypse and why Seohae and Taesul are constantly suffering and being victims dealing with the burden of Dea*th

Taesul: The Burden of Selfishness and Stubborness

So now that has started to be clear, let's first reverse and focus on Taesul. From Taesul's part of the storyline, we have a lot of people who want to hurt Sisyphus really badly and who lead to his first elimination. Because the end results for Taesul's actions as we know it is his demise, he gets removed and ended and his passing leads to the war, thats' the horrifying truth that Seohae has gone back to prevent. But she's also with him, and she also gets removed, so both of them actually end up being eliminated at the same time, it would seem, but it's by different circumstances. I'll explain. So with Taesul's version of Sis, his enemies are (the ones who are actively seeking his removal) is his brother Salmoneus, Thanatos, Zeus, and finally Ares. These are his main villains. At the end of the day, he is dealt with by Ares, who causes him to be Thanatos's victim. This makes so much sense when we finally see Sigma. Let's recap the first eight episodes with who is going to be excited at Taesul's demise.

Tyro: The Fight for Survival

We have Seojin and her father, all connected to his company and the politics of who should take over it. Seojin's father keeps an eye on Taesul on Sigma's orders to provide his wife a cure. (Ironically, they're also trying to cheat death and so become victims) but it's vital to notice that they're connected to one, his company and his possession, two Sigma and wanting to get rid of Taesul because he's the key to getting the woman alive. Before we focus on them and what they represent. Let's focus again on who is being chosen to replace Taesul by these two and others in the company. It's Eddie, his best friend, almost like his sworn brother, someone who is his most trusted connection. Eddie has constantly been defending and wanting to wait for Taesul to come back, but somehow he starts to switch, it's because of one his new relationship with Seojin if you don't remember Seojin is actually Taesul's ex who he played around with and couldn't commit to, two because he starts to have a hunger for the company that Taesul owns since he's been given a chance to be in the spotlight since Taesul was thought to be eliminated.

Who is that starting to seem like? Yes, it's Salmoneus. It's so heartbreaking because that's precisely the storyline of Sisyphus and Salmoneus well, the same similar basis. Salmoneus, because of greed and ego, steals Sisyphus's kingdom from him; he usurps him and betrays Sis, who was meant to be the ruler by birth. This is just like what Eddie is starting to become; he's beginning to want to take Taesul's fame, company and power because of selfishness, greed and also in case it's not as obvious insecurity and jealousy. He got a taste of power, and now he wants to be in charge, he wants Seojin's attention and love, and he wants what Taesul has always had that's been taking granted. And to just hone in on the similarity of Salmoneus and Eddie, Sisyphus has a hold in the myth on Salmoneus wife, and he tries to use that to hurt Salmoneus.

Now Taesul is not word for word like Sisyphus, we know there are differences as well in the story, for example, it shouldn't be Eddie taking this role; it should be Taesan he's the real brother in the story, but even though there are differences, and Taesan isn't purposely as cruel as Sisyphus, he does have a hold on Seohae, she has to put all her attention on him, she doesn't seem happy that he took her for granted especially when she says he hurts the people who actually care for him, she doesn't seem eager when she notices another woman in his life, because she's a vengeful ex. But it's not just because of love and being jilted; her family is also connected to the storyline.

Suppose you don't want to see Salmoneus as Eddie. In that case, there's also misconceptions in the myth that it's his daughter that Sisyphus had to marry to fulfil that prophecy he failed at, so it could be Seojin's father, still has a connection to Taesul, which he claimed was like blood-related, also wants to get rid of him in the company and put someone else there, so he's also connected to the usurping of Sisyphus. It doesn't matter who is Salmoneus the person to focus on is Tyro she's the one who is very hurt and upset with Sisyphus; she basically has to kill her kids to protect her dad/husband, and she has to end up losing people she loves because of Sisyphus's selfish actions. And this is what Seojin believes now; she considers Taesul is the reason for why her dad got eliminated by Sigma, why she lost everything (in the myth, Tyro loses two relatives (her kids) just as Seojin loses her two parents). Salmoneus wants to get rid of Sis, but he fails; in fact, he ends up being eliminated by the gods for his selfishness and hubris; he fails at pleasing the gods, so he gets taken down. Like Seojin's father but also Eddie, it's definitely his downfall in this situation; he's going to also be a victim by the end of the show by betraying Taesul. So there's already a mirror image to the villains. What Salmonaeus represents is wanting to get rid of Sisyphus for revenge, greed and power and for hatred. And that's the same aims building up for Seojin (revenge and hatred) and Eddie (greed and power).

Thanatos: The Fight for Freedom

So That's our first issue to deal with that Taesul needs to escape from. But we have the other two. Ares and Thanatos. And I've always predicted this from when I watched and did the previous analysis. I knew that Sigma was Ares, and would lead Taesul to his downfall, but Thanatos is not Sigma, and that was what was still confusing me. Let's recap that part, in episode 1-4, as the story unfolds; as much as Seohae wants to protect Taesul from Sigma though she does not know who he is, she also knows there are others. We misunderstand that Sigma is the one sending these weird, rushed downloads to find Taesul and get rid of Taesul. But that's not Sigma. Sigma wants Taesul to make the uploader, not get rid of him; he wants the war, wants the chaos, and wants the dea*th of millions, just like that's Ares aim as a god of war.

So who are these people who are scary and out for Taesul's blood. Whatever they are, they follow Thanatos's gain. Now I'm not saying that this organisation or people can't be connected with Sigma; they just don't have the same goals yet, because Ares and Thanatos work together to bring Sis to his downfall in the first part. And that's important to notice. So the aims of these weird people are going to mirror Thanatos's aims for Sis. One, Thanatos was sent by Zeus (really important because it might be the Control Borough from the future sending this, it might be an organisation focused on law and balance trying to stop Taesul from causing Korea to go into the war), to trick Sis but he fails, he ends up being the victim of Sis instead. Sometimes in the story, it's just Sis is selfish and just goes and bothers Thanatos as he's chilling and simply chains him to prevent dea*th for all. The reason for why Thanatos is trying to hurt Sis is because of vengeance and being hurt by the cruelty of Sisyphus's actions.

Because of it, he couldn't be free, he was affected and hurt, and he lost his power. Now we don't know the full results of Taesul's actions in making this time machine. Still, we know that a lot of people who survive suffer;

Because they're in an apocalypse with no control, money and have to fight to survive.

They lose their loved ones and are victims to the war,

They lose their power and self because they no longer have hope or happiness.

The reason for why these people are in this situation is Taesul; he's the reason for why there's a war in the first place. So we see that whoever has sent people to come to gun down Taesul is doing it for vengeance and to stop his selfish actions hurting them and chaining their freedom. So it won't be a surprise if it's a band of rebels/resistance who aren't downloading correctly because they either have a faulty uploader, or they are rushing because it's a sui*cide mission for them, it's all or nothing; the goal is to get rid of Taesul to save themselves. So that's still who we're waiting for, who is in charge of these people. Now Sigma could be connected to these people. Let's first break him down;

Ares: The Fight for Purpose

So Ares is someone who is annoyed and upset; he's also become a victim and mocked because of Sisyphus's actions to chain Thanatos. He's someone who has no care about mortals but wants to see chaos and see people eliminated, so he's not bored. That's like Sigma, the only person who gets to gain something from the war (we don't know what, all we know is he wants the chaos, he wants the war, he wants Taesul to make a mistake and lead to everything), who is nonchalant and unfeeling, who is playing games with everyone and is having fun on others demise.

Right now, Sigma's goal is to get the key but also to ensure that Taesul ends up yielding to him and not get in his way. This is how Ares felt with Sis; he wanted to get rid of Sis to ensure he had fun and had war. Ares is the person who actually causes Sis to fail in the first part; he is the one who tells Zeus everything and leads to Sisyphus unchaining Thanatos, who is the one who comes for Sisyphus. So if you're not seeing what's happening, Sigma leads Taesul to make the uploader and cause the world to end (he's the reason why Taesul won't stop searching, he's now Taesul's goal which is him staying and repeating the same mistakes), Sigma leads Taesul to his downfall, his downfall leads to the other people who are victims becoming full of vengeance to come to use his uploader in the past to rewrite the history and get rid of him, unchaining Thanatos and this is what causes Sisyphus to be eliminated, just like Taesul ends up being stopped at his version of the story. Sigma is not our final villain; he's not the one who gets rid of Taesul; it's the others, and if the others are connected to Control Borough, it's them because they're also at the fault of Seohae's demise.

Seohae: The burden of selflessness and sacrifice

Let's look at Seohae because this essay is becoming incredibly long. With Seohae, her challengers are Hades, Persephone, Zeus. And it's that simple. Knowing the patterns of understanding who's who, it's pretty apparent who Seohae has aggravated with her choice to go back and change the past. By choosing to save Taesul, Seohae has made enemies who want her; some are being puppets and lied to, others because of her being Sisyphus and tricking and mocking them.

Hades: A Fight For Control

So we have Hades he has a way of doing things, of controlling his kingdom, which is seen as the opposite of positive ideas, it's connected to the other side of the purity of the gods, it's hell, but it's funny because just as the Control Borough who represents Zeus stand for law and balance and order and look out for the illegal immigrants, there's another opposite version of them who is seen as the opposite of purity and goodness and that's the guy who wants the key at first. The broker. He has his own way of doing things; he makes money from illegal immigrants and controls them in his lair. But Seohae, not Taesul, Seohae is the one who betrays and tricks him, the one who he promises to get rid of because of her actions. Her actions lead to him getting arrested and caught, and he swears revenge if he ever finds her like Hades. Hades is not the one who's tricked, but he's the one mocked, and his system is failed because of Sisyphus tricking Persophone. And that's important to notice. It's not Hades who gets Sisyphus at the end of the myth, he agrees with Zeus later on Sisyphus's punishment, but he doesn't win. Sisyphus actually escapes and lives a long life at first with his wife. So whatever our broker is up to, he's not going to get rid of Taesul and Seohae, but he's still important in their demise.

Persophone: A fight for pride

So who's Persophone? Well, that's why I was confused because Seohae doesn't trick anyone with the idea of love that's connected to others, and so I was confused. When I first heard of Persephone, I saw her as Seojin because again, she's hurt and acts on the idea of getting Sisyphus to go back to his wife and rekindle their love but actually scold his wife for treating him wrongly and not showing respect to him when he left or something. That sounded like Seojin relating to being hurt and mistreated by a lover. But Seohae isn't tricking Seojin yet; however, I do think that she may end up being Persophone, only because Persophone is not a character out for Sisyphus's blood, she's just mocked and reduced by Sisyphus's actions like how Seohae if Seojin had feelings or resentment towards Taesul for actually finding a woman who he cared for more than her someone who he truly respected and loved, it would feel like an insult to her seeing Seohae, it would feel like she's being reduced and mocked because she still cares for him. That's the only mirror I saw with her, but again also Tyro is a better representative for her in this story. Perhaps in Seohae's version, she really ends up also becoming an obstacle that needs to be talked to or convinced as Sisyphus did with Persophone. Although getting rid of Taesul is her goal, i can see Seohae being the one who ends it and removes her from the story.

The reason why Sun is also mentioned is because his role isn’t yet understood about what he does at the end. He could even be Sigma I won’t be shocked if he’s a broken shell or hurt vengeful version of Sigma who has been turned to being unfeeling by the love of Seohae and Taesul. However he also could be Persophone, like he’s also connected to that hurt and pain of love as the second lead and he could be the one who helps her find a way out of the loop to be with Taesul. His role is not understood so this is just some ideas of what they may be but not connected to the map. For now I’ll lean on no one representing Persephone in Seohae’s version.

Zeus: A fight for Power

Finally, we get to the big issue. It's obviously our first-ever challenger in both stories. Zeus is just a funny character; the way he uses others and hides behind the scenes letting others try and get rid of Sisyphus, is so interesting to me. Because the ICB isn't yet out for Taesul, even though Sisyphus already had Zeus keeping an eye on him, including sending Thanatos to get him. So we do know and have seen that ICB did kidnap Taesul in episode 1-4., they give him a warning about not following the rules and still searching for what he shouldn't. This is foreshadowing, just like Zeus, they have started to keep an eye on him, they see him as an obstacle, but they're not the most significant threat in his version. So as Zeus shows up in that version, they also show up, but they're not the ones unless connected to the people in the future; the current ICB isn't the opposition to Taesul; it's Sigma

But unfortunately for Seohae, who plays the Sisyphus who gets cursed with the boulder; ICB is Zeus, ICB is the one who gets her. This is the thing that is sad about it is that they already have a reason to try and get her she's illegal, she's breaking the rules, she's mocking their power just like Sisyphus and Zeus however, the way they do this is just like how Zeus does it he uses others to get Sisyphus as he tried with Thanatos. The only thing that happens is Sisyphus ends up having nowhere else to run to after his goals have been achieved, he was going to always d*e in the end, and Zeus just waited for that chance. And this is how Sis is caught and punished. And we've already started to see how the ICB led to Seohae's downfall; they lied to Jung that she's the one who took his mother's life. And Jung from the future apologises to Seohae for being tricked, but unfortunately, he's in a loop destined to repeat and repeat and right now, he's out for her blood. It's obvious he's the one who ends her life the first time; he's the one who puts the eternal loop in motion. He gets rid of her, her future self finds the diary (this paradox really annoys me because it makes no sense, the 'chicken or egg plothole'), and she goes back to save Taesul, So like Zeus causes this futile infinite curse on Sisyphus to carry this boulder, this weight of confusion and loss of freedom, Jung used by ICB puts this on Seohae each time he shoots her and Taesul. It is the act of hurting her that causes the Sisyphean effect in the show; in fact, I think Taesul is eliminated before her by his own issues, but the final catalyst is Jung. So like I said, it's Zeus Sisyphus needs to stop before he gets to the end. It's Jung who Seohae needs to communicate with or stop before they enter the wedding scene. That is why he says to her, it's only if she forgives him for what he'll become, and it's only if they work together can the ending be alternated.

So I had more to say, but this ended up being so long; I'm not mad about it because this is precisely why I needed to break all this down, by knowing how the villains, their goals and their downfalls, knowing what is leading their actions, you can start to use that and predict their roles in the show, you can see how Taesul and Seohae end up in this godforsaken Sisyphean loop. You understand why Sigma is who he is and what he wants, but also, you get to know how these two end up getting caught the first time. However, there's still hope; there's a way to break the loop if the characters stop for a minute and just stop being selfish. But also like I said, Sisyphus gets his goals before he gets punished although it doesn't seem like a happy ending, he gets to be with his wife till old age, it is only after he has no other choice but to leave peacefully does Zeus show up and put him in a curse. So the ending is sad, but there's a way out, Taesul and Seohae may finally get to live that happily ever after and be together longer in this loop if they get rid of Zeus, or we get an open ending where they're in this loop forever, but they're aware. For me, I don't see a sad ending with this show because of the myth. I think Seohae and Taesul have a lot to deal with and I'm still confused by Taesan's role but for now, knowing this new outline about where the villains play a part, makes it so much more easier for me to continue following the story. As mentioned in the previous analysis I don't add up the science and logic and time travel dynamics to these theories; they might be more that I'm missing but I'm 80% sure this show isn't really focused on all of that and is using the myth as a map. Let me know your ideas about Sisyphus the myth, however I look foward to seeing if this theory is right or if I missed out a lot of things because of the lack of the scientific focus. Thank you.

#sisyphus the myth #sisyphus #sisyphus the myth kdrama #kdrama #cwg #march #korean drama #park shin hye #cho seung woo

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jackoshadows · 3 years

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Is it possible that Robb's will is a red herring? That it's actually a thing or be relevant?

I do think that it will play an important role in pushing forward Jon Snow as a possible candidate for KITN. Without that decree, Jon will not in any way be relevant to the politics of the North.

IMO, the only reason Jon even became King on the show is because that’s a book plot. Considering how much Benioff and Weiss wanted Queen Sansa, considering that there is no way the North would have made bastard Jon Snow king when Ned Stark’s legitimate eldest daughter was sitting right there, and considering that the show hand-waved away both of Sansa’s marriages, I think KITN Jon Snow is a book plot that they inserted in there without the writing to back it up.

And then there’s the things GRRM has mentioned in interviews:

I have a question, since Robb actually legitimized Jon and named him his heir for Winterfell and the North before the Red Wedding (granted no one knows about this and is still alive or free, the Greatjon knows as does Edmure, but I dont see them getting out of the Twins any time soon and Catelyn would probably die before telling anyone) does this make Jon's rejection of Stannis' offer moot?

Edmure and the Greatjon are prisoners, true... but you are forgetting the envoys that Robb sent to Howland Reed... Galbart Glover, Maege Mormont, Jason Mallister... they are all alive and free.

As to what is and is not moot... the key point is, only a =king= can legitimize a bastard......

GRRM SSM, August 06, 2000

It is GRRM who brings up that Glover, Mormont and Mallister are still out there and alive and free and were witnesses to the will. I think this implies that this point is going to be relevant.

GRRM has also stressed that at the end of the day, might is right. Meaning, whomever has the most houses and armies supporting them is who gets to be King. Robert Baratheon’s will was torn up to make Joffrey Baratheon king. The same can be done to Robb’s will. And that is even without considering that Robb was considered an enemy traitor and not a king by the Lannisters and Stannis.

I had forgotten that all the others signed and witnessed Robb's decree. Also, wasn't Robb a King when he signed the decree? Granted not king of much, with the North lost but he was a King wasn't he?

He was a king in his own eyes and those of his followers... in the eyes of the Lannisters and Stannis and =their= followers he was a rebel, traitor, and would-be usurper.

GRRM SSM, August 06, 2000

On inheritance in Westeros:

Well, the short answer is that the laws of inheritance in the Seven Kingdoms are modelled on those in real medieval history... which is to say, they were vague, uncodified, subject to varying interpretations, and often contradictory.

A man's eldest son was his heir. After that the next eldest son. Then the next, etc. Daughters were not considered while there was a living son, except in Dorne, where females had equal right of inheritance according to age.

After the sons, most would say that the eldest daughter is next in line. But there might be an argument from the dead man's brothers, say. Does a male sibling or a female child take precedence? Each side has a "claim."

What if there are no childen, only grandchildren and great grandchildren. Is precedence or proximity the more important principle? Do bastards have any rights? What about bastards who have been legitimized, do they go in at the end after the trueborn kids, or according to birth order? What about widows? And what about the will of the deceased? Can a lord disinherit one son, and name a younger son as heir? Or even a bastard?

There are no clear cut answers, either in Westeros or in real medieval history. Things were often decided on a case by case basis. A case might set a precedent for later cases... but as often as not, the precedents conflicted as much as the claims.

The Wars of the Roses were fought over the issue of whether the Lancastrian claim (deriving from the third son of Edward III in direct male line) or the Yorkist claim (deriving from a combination of Edward's second son, but through a female line, wed to descendants of his fourth son, through the male) was superior. And a whole family of legitimized bastard stock, the Beauforts, played a huge role.

The medieval world was governed by men, not by laws. You could even make a case that the lords preferred the laws to be vague and contradictory, since that gave them more power. In a tangle like the Hornwood case, ultimately the lord would decide... and if some of the more powerful claimants did not like the decision, it might come down to force of arms.

The bottom line, I suppose, is that inheritance was decided as much by politics as by laws. In Westeros and in medieval Europe both.

GRRM SSM, November 02, 1999

I have seen some people state that no one can be disinherited and that legitimized bastards come after legitimate children. As seen above, GRRM has left all this deliberately vague. It’s very possible, that Robb’s will disinherits Sansa and legitimizes Jon, decreeing him as Jon Stark, KITN and Lord of Winterfell - directly putting him ahead of the rest of his siblings. People can be disinherited in Westeros - the question is if being disinherited will be recognized by everyone else.

Reasons for why this is possible - Robb Stark was adamant that Tyrion should not get Winterfell through Sansa. Even Catelyn was agreed on this. Robb would not have allowed for any loop holes for this to happen in his will. And second, Catelyn was strongly against Robb legitimizing Jon and naming him heir precisely because it would put Jon ahead of her children. I can see this as a plot point in the North in the next book.

Questions with the will:

Robb assumed that Bran, Rickon and Arya were all dead when it was written. Many houses like Manderly now know that this is not true. Rickon and Arya will both be back in the North in the next book. So will Robb’s decree still hold true if it’s drawn up with false information?

It all comes down to which house supports whom. I get the feeling that with GRRM’s SSM above, that houses Glover, Mormont and Mallister may push for King Jon Snow. Manderly and others may move for Rickon. And of course there is no way that Littlefinger and Vale Lords would acknowledge or accept Sansa’s disinheritance as valid. Littlefinger does not even acknowledge Robb as king.

All this deliberate vagueness regarding inheritance would also apply to when Daenerys comes to Westeros with a claim to the Iron Throne. Whomever has the most armies and support among the houses would have the better claim. With her dragons, Dany easily wins this one.

At the end of the day, who will become King/Queen is upto whatever GRRM wants for the story - that’s why he’s left it undefined and nebulous.

#Robb Stark #Jon Snow #Robb's Will #Robb's decree #GRRM #GRRM's SSMs #House Stark #inheritance in asoiaf #asoiaf

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unmaskedagain · 4 years

Text

Marinette Vs Santa

A quick Christmas drabble.

How did Marinette find out she was adopted? Well… her little half-brother tried to kill her.

Also, that’s how she found out her biological dad was Batman. Because… why not. As if her life wasn’t weird enough already.

And to think Marinette had been secretly writing Santa every year since she was three to like nine asking for a sibling of her own. She didn’t think it would ever happen

Then one day, on a cold December night, as Ladybug ran across rooftops to see as many of the Christmas decorations as possible. Suddenly every instinct she had told her to duck. And she did just narrowly avoided a sword to the throat.

Marinette readied herself to fight an Akuma, only to see an angry ten-year-old with a sword and a mask. He was dressed in green, red, and gold.

“Die, usurper!” He roared and attacked her again.

Ladybug dodged and jumped every attempt to kill her and tried to resist the urge to punch a child.

Eventually she got the better of the kid, and ended up hog tying him.

Marinette put her hands on her knees as she struggled to catch her breath, “Who. Are. You. Nightmare. Child?” She asked in between breaths. Ladybug picked up the fallen sword and pointed at him. “And what is your problem? What did I even do to you?”

“You are Marinette Dupain-Cheng, first born blood child of our father.” He hissed at her, “I am our father’s rightful heir; not you.”

Our father? Did her dad have a lovechild? Did he cheat on her mom? No, Tom Dupain would never.

“What?” Marinette pinched her nose. “You want to be head baker?”

“Fool!” He tsk’d at her. “I’ve no interest in your adoptive parents’ holdings. I will follow Father’s footsteps and rule the night. I will be Batman. Not you, sister. Kneel before me and renounce your heirship, and I will spare your life.”

…Wait Adoptive? Batman? Sister?

Marinette just stared at him. Not saying a word. For a while. Awhile he insulted her.

She looked out at the colorful lights that glowed against the freshly fallen snow and sense of peace that filled the air, and Marinette whispered the only thing on her mind…

“Fuck Santa.”

The boy stopped struggled and gave her a perplexed look, “What? What does the jolly fat man have to do with anything? Why has he made you angry, sister? I will avenge you.”

You just tried to kill me, she wanted to say.

Marinette just rolled her eyes, “Never mind. We need to talk.” She picked him and tossed him over her shoulder. “In my room.”

Running across Paris with a struggling kid on your shoulder and a sword in your hand wasn’t easy.

When she got to her room, she dropped the kid on her bed as gently as possible. “Do not escape,” She ordered. “If you do, do not destroy my room. I’m going to ask my parents if…” If they’re really her parents. Why didn’t they tell her? Why? Just Why? “What you say is true. I won’t mention Batman.”

Or the psychotic ten-year-old she had tied up in her room. Who may or may not be her brother.

Marinette de-transformed. Tikki hid in her hair before anyone could see her.

She came back to her room half an hour later with a cheese plate, full of veggies, fruits and crackers. And a tray full of chocolate chip Christmas cookies and two glasses of milk. She sat them down at the desk.

The boy glared at her.

“You were right,” Marinette sighed. “I was adopted. My birth mom was just nineteen when she had me. The sister of one of my mom’s friends.”

The news had been a blow. Her parents had kept repeating how much they loved her and how they had been planning on telling her when she was older. Older than fourteen. They wanted to know how she found out. She said her little brother had gotten in contact with her.

Marinette eyed the still tied up boy… her brother. He no longer struggled against his bonds, just stared with an angry expression on his face. “I don’t want to be Batman,” She told him. “The title is all yours. I like being Ladybug. It’s a name I earned, worked hard for. A name I’m proud of and will not part with easily. Is that something you can understand?”

He stared at her for a moment before nodding slowly, “You created your own hero persona to find the terror entrapping your city; all by yourself. …Father did the same.”

He said the last part with a sad tone that Marinette’s new found big sisterly instincts go haywire. “And you think just because you’re his… partner,” She said, instead of sidekick because she was sure that word would get her killed. “And not a solo hero, that he will find you unworthy of being his heir.” Marinette sat down next to him, and patted his hair softly. “Did you ever think that because he is the one who’s training you, that because you fight by his side, that he’d trust you more? Trust you to take up his mantle in the way he can’t trust me. He doesn’t know what I’m capable of entirely. But he knows exactly what you can do because he taught you.”

Her brother scoffed but his face lost some of its anger and he seemed to relax.

“I’m going to untie you now,” She told him. “Do not attack me.”

When he was untied and given back his sword, which he sheathed, Marinette brought over the food. “You know my name,” She said after he took a bite a cookie and seemed pleased with it. “What’s yours?”

“Damian,” He answered. “Damian Al-Ghul Wayne. How did you obtained magical powers? And what is the creature that thought it could hide from me?”

Marinette just blink. Because Dammit Tikki. The pink ball of fluff out with a chastised look on her face. Unfortunately that look meant nothing as all the other Kwami Marinette now protected as Guardian thought that meant they could come out to.

Plagg straight to Damian and sat on his lap, “Cheese. Now.”

Marinette face-palmed. The Kwami had taken trying to declare dominance ever since Ladybug took the ring back from Chat Noir.

Damian could only stare at the being, animal, and sprite as he reached slowly for a piece of cheese from the selection of food and handed it the small creature. That was all the other Kwami needed to rush to him for attention. Damian was easily mesmerized by the little creatures and saw no issue in showing them affection. Apart from the fact that Oracle, and Father, and thus the rest of the family were watching the feed, through the mask, while they attempt to locate him. Damian could only disable their trackers for so long. Annoying as she was, Oracle was a genius.

“Okay, little brother,” Marinette shrugged. “You tell me your story. I’ll tell you mine.”

And so they did. The two siblings spent the next few hours telling the other all about their history. Neither were happy.

Marinette was beyond furious that her little brother was raised by ruthless assassins, cast into the role of Robin (though mostly by his own doing), constantly risked his life, and had little no childhood.

Damian was pissed, which was putting it nicely. His beloved sister had no training when she was charged with the task of defending the city as the hero Ladybug and fight a supernatural terrorist, dealt with sexual harassment from her once trusted partner, then her master died in battle but not before he bestowed one of the most powerful magical artifacts of all time to a teenager. To top it all off, his sweet sister was being bullied by a pathological liar who turned all her friends against her, nearly got her expelled, leaving her with little to no Allies to aid her in her fight against evil. Marinette had cried at the end of her tale.

…He was going burn Paris to the ground.

Little did he know, the Batfamily found it hard not to agree as they watched the livestream from the Batplane?

Dick had gone from jumping up and down at the sight of his adorable new sister, Marinette. She was a hero called Ladybug, how cute was that? To being rather angry at what she had to put up with. It was too much pressure for a kid, superhero, superpowers, or not.

“What do we do?” Tim asked.

Batman was still having trouble processing. He had another daughter; a beautiful little girl who seemed to have taken after him without ever having known the man. Nature versus Nurture, he supposed; nature won. Marinette who had been fighting to save her city like he fought to save his. Who was her mother? Why didn’t she tell Bruce he had another child? Granted Brucie wasn’t who most people thought would be an ideal father but still… Hadn’t he proved himself?

“Find Hawkmoth,” Jason growled. “Punch a hole through his face. And Send Steph and Cass to have a “Talk”, he air quoted. “With that Lila chick. While we have a little talk of our own with Chat Noir. End of story.”

Cass nodded, gleefully, that little girl would pay for what she did to Cassandra’s sister. And if she was lucky, Lila would even live to tell the tale.

Stephanie was wondering if the Batfamily, her sort of-adopted family, could really get away with murder.

…Who was she kidding? They totally could.

“We don’t… kill?” Batman said as he turned around and stalked away. “I’ll inform Alfred of the development.” Maybe have him prepare a room, he thought with hope. He’d like his daughter to visit and feel at home whenever she could.

When Batman left the area, Tim looked around at his siblings, “Did that sound like a question to anyone else?”

Marinette and Damian fell asleep next to each other, with the Kwami cuddled close. The next morning she woke not only to sound to the sound of the Kwami but to the sight of five additional vigilantes heroes, in addition to the one from the night before, hovering around her room.

Two girls who were discussing with Trixx and long about their abilities. A hero in mostly black and red, who sat on Marinette’s top bunk with Marinette’s laptop on his lap, and Pollen on his shoulder. Damian still had Plagg with him, which Marinette wanted to tsk at because she told him not to play favorites. A blue, clearly the oldest, was laying on the floor playing with the remaining Kwami like they were puppies.

She sat up in her bed and tried to wipe the sleep from her eyes. She glared at Damian, “Want to explain?”

“Mornin, sunshine,” A guy in a redmask said, with Barkk on his shoulder, as he chopped on a leftover cookie, not noticing the way Tikki glared at him. “Name’s Red Hood. Real name Jason. Dad’s downstairs talking to your parents.”

Dad?

She glared even harder at Damian. He shrugged, “Marinette, these are our… brothers and sisters.” He said. “They were adopted.”

“You should get better security on your computer,” The hero on her bed said. “Name’s Tim. I go by Red Robin.”

“Cassandra,” One the girl introduced. “Blackbat.”

“Stephanie. Batgirl,” The other said.

“I’m Dick!” The one on the floor laughed. “Nightwing. Welcome to the family.”

Tim continued, “I’ve located all personal information on Lila Rossi. I believe we can now move forward with the plan.”

Jason clapped his hands together, “Awesome. Operation: Get That Bitch is a go.”

Marinette just started at them. Six. She had six siblings. One for every year ever asked for a sibling for Christmas. She just had one thing to say as she tossed the covers back over her head to hide from the world…

“Fuck. Santa.”

Finding out Bruce Wayne, cough Batman cough, was her father was one thing. Meeting him in person was another. He stared at her with cool blue eyes that made Marinette realize she probably should’ve questioned where she got her own long before.

Her parents had been surprised when Bruce Wayne walked into their bakery and asked to speak with them alone. Even more so, when he claimed to be the biological father of their daughter. It had been long conversation between the three. But Bruce made it clear that he had interest of just taking Marinette from them. However, he would like visitations and for her to spend time with him over the summers. And to take her out for the day so she could meet her siblings. Also, about adding Wayne to her last name.

So that was how Marinette found herself sitting in one of the most expensive restaurants in all of Paris, in the best dress she ever designed herself, with her… family.

The initial awkwardness was broken up by all her siblings. Though they seemed to know to how to behave in public, they had no problems messing with each other and teasing.

“How long have you been into fashion, Marinette?” Bruce, her Papa, (As her dad would always be her dad).

She smiled, “Since I was really little. It’s my dream to have my own line.”

Bruce’s eyes got bright at the chance to help his daughter, “I can help you with that. I can drum up a connect or two, to get you started.”

“He’ll throw money at it until someone cracks,” Jason translated which cause Marinette to laugh and Bruce to glare.

Marinette discovered Damian had snuck Plagg with him to the restaurant.

Marinette just groaned.

“You brought Tikki!” Damian defended.

“I’m the holder of her Miraculous,” She hissed back as low as she could. “Paris’s main and sometimes only hero. I need her.”

Damian huffed, “That’s no reason he shouldn’t be allowed to attend as well. He’s with me.”

Before Marinette could continue the arugment…

“Wayne?” Gabriel Agreste asked, tailed by Natalie, Adrien, Chloe, and Chloe’s parents: Audrey Bourgeois and André Bourgeois. “Bruce Wayne?”

Bruce put on his most charming smile as he stood up, “Yes and you are?” He put out his hand.

Gabriel shook it, clearly wondering why the billionaire was there. “Gabriel Agreste.”

Bruce nodded, “The fashion designer.”

“This is my son Adrien,” Gabriel introduced. “My assistant Nathalie. My longtime friend Audrey Bourgeois, of the Style Queen, and André Bourgeois, mayor of Paris, and their lovely daughter. We’re here for a quick lunch.”

“Same,,” Bruce nodded. “I’m here with my children. My eldest Dick, followed by Jason, Cassandra, Stephanie, Tim, Marinette and my youngest Damian.” He introduced them.

At the sound her name, all the newcomers eyes went to Marinette. She gave them a small wave, “Good to see you again.”

“Dupain-Cheng!” Chloe gasped.

Damian growled, “Dupain-Cheng-Wayne.” As he glared passed her at the blond boy, the former Chat Noir.

The blond girl was stunned, “How could you not tell me?”

Hadn’t the two moved passed their difference and become friends? The two girls, and Kagami and united together when the liar seemed to take hold of the rest of the class.

“No one knew,” Marinette defended. I didn’t even know, she wanted to add. But they had discussed and agreed on the story that Bruce and an unknown woman gave up Marinette to the Dupain-Chengs when she was born. Nothing scandalous about it.

Gabriel paused as he tried to think of what to say. How did he not know there was Wayne living in Paris, that his son was classmates with a Wayne. The girl had power in her pinky when she was still in Nappies, then either of the older Bourgeois had currently in their entire bodies. She would’ve been a much better playmate for his son than Chloe; the vapid, girl that she was.

Audrey was thinking nearly the same thing. “Such a brilliant daughter you have, Brucie,” She smoozed. “I still can’t believe she turned down the internship I offered her. I want her to come to New York with me, you know?”

Bruce beamed, “I’m glad someone sees her brilliance.”

This went on for a while as each of the parents tried their hands at flattering the billionaire. Bruce finally had enough and all but dismissed them

“I’m glad our children our such good friends,” Gabriel said finally as he turned to leave.

Marinette fought he urge to scoff. Adrien was not her friend.

The boy in question looked anywhere but at Marinette as he left. He had chosen to side with the other students when the Ice’d out Marinette until the girl stopped being a bully and being mean to Lila. Even if he knew it wasn’t true. Most declared they weren’t her friends anymore. Alya said she’d never be friends with Marinette again.

Coward, Damian nearly hissed. When they were gone, he turned to Marinette, “The blond girl is your alley, correct?” He asked. “Your Queen?”

Marinette nodded, “There’s Luka and Kagami as well.”

“I will test to ensure they are worthy to fight at her side,” He declared.

The others nodded. Bruce got a dark look on his face, “We all will.” He would not allow his daughter to suffer another Chat Noir.

That was it, Marinette thought as she threw down the sliver napkin, she was starting to hate Christmas.

The end of the weekend the entire world knew that Marinette was Bruce Wayne’s daughter. This made going to school Monday morning a huge spectacle as paparazzi crowded the outside the bakery and outside the school. Each one trying to get the attention of Wayne’s crown jewel, new Princess of Gotham, as the media dubbed her.

Suffice to say, Bruce had taken her to school that day flagged by Dick and Tim as her other siblings combed the city for traces of Hawkmoth.

The principle had practically fallen over himself to speak with the Bruce Wayne. But quickly hid in the shadows, when the first thing Bruce said to him was, “Ah, yes, you’re the man who expelled my daughter without a proper investigation. I’ll be talking to you later. So will my lawyers.”

Marinette tried to hide her blushing face her father walked her to class. Students did everything they could to get a look at her. Chloe and Kagami waited outside her classroom, that was practically bursting with noise.

However She practically drop dead when Tim complimented Kagami’s sword fighting skill and offered to duel her, and Kagami blushed. Blushed. Kagami?

Marinette shook her head as she kissed her father and brothers goodbye. This world just didn’t make sense anymore.

The two other girls flanked Marinette’s side as they walked into class. All noise stopped instantly. Marinette didn’t even bother spare the other kids a glance as the three took a seat in back of the class.

Chloe quickly pulled her into a conversation of the places she’d see that summer in New York.

“I’ll be spending the end of Christmas break in Gotham too,” Marinette said shyly. “I’ll open my presents there. Papa wants me there for the Wayne Ball was I can be properly introduced to society.”

And not because Bruce Wayne was scared of what Alfred would do if he didn’t get to mean his new granddaughter before the new year. That and Martha Kent were the ultimate overprotective grandparents.

“A Ball?” Lila squeaked, poorly concealed jealously on her face. She still couldn’t believe the little twit was Wayne. IF she had, Lila would’ve been a hell of a lot nicer. No wonder Marientte always knew when Lila was lying. She probably knew the celebrities through her father. “You’re going to the Waynes’ Annual New Year’s Ball.”

“Everyone goes,” Rose awe’d. “It’s basically a red carpet event. I watch every year. And Selena Gomez had the most beautiful dress on last time.”

Juleka hummed in agreement, “Clara Nightingale looked like a princess.”

Marinette just shrugged as each of her classmates offered their input on what the Ball would be like. She wasn’t about to make nice with them. They had turned their backs on her, betrayed her trust. Her brothers and sisters had warned her to be watchful for phony friends.

Alya, who’s face had been turning steadily more red, as the classmates speculated who Marinette would meet. “Girl!” She burst. “How could not tell me?”

Marinette raised a thin eyebrow, “We’re not friends, Alya, by your own declaration. I don’t believe I have to tell you anything. And even when we were friends, I only knew you for two years. Why would I tell a journalist anything important about me?”

“She was right not to,” Kagami stated, “With how quickly you all turned on her, I’m surprised she ever told you anything at all.”

Alya flinched back as if slapped. So did a few other students.

“It’s not fair,” Alya continued as if nothing happened. “I could’ve gotten so many interviews. OH! I could with you to the Ball. It’ll be bomb.��

The three girls in the backrow just stared at her.

“We. Are. Not. Friends,” Marinette repeated slowly. “Kagami and Chloe, and their families are invited because Kagami. And. Chloe. Are. My. Friends. In fact, my only friends in class. Luka is invited as well as well as his family,” She turned to Juleka who turned bright red. “Luka will receive invite tonight. If you attend with him, I will do my best to be polite. My father allowed me to invite them so I would have additional company if it gets too busy. The Ball is invitation only.”

Allowed? He insisted. Marinette doesn’t even know how he found out all their names and who their families were. For reason, Marinette had the gut instinct to blame a redhead and Tim. Batman wanted to test his daughter’s team. And if they were lacking… Well, he’d promised to shape them up. Or else.

“I’m going to the Wayne Ball!” Chloe shouted. “And you didn’t tell me. It’s mere weeks away. I need a dress. I need to tell Mother.”

Kagami had frozen. She knew well that the Wayne Ball wasn’t just any high society event. It was the High society event. Her family had never been elite and rich enough to receive an invitation. “I thank you for the invitation,” She bowed her head. “It will be a pleasure to attend.” She paused as she pulled out her phone and stood up. “I must also tell Mother.” And with, she quickly left the room.

Which was much more polite than Chloe who called her mom then and there.

“Mama!” Chloe sang, “Marinette invited us to the Wayne Ball this year!”

“WHAT!” Was heard from the receiver.

Marinette giggled. She ignored the glare Alya sent her.

Rose grasped Juleka’s arm and jumped up and down. “You’re going to the ball. Ahhhh!” She screamed. “What will you wear? Your hair? You have to take pictures.” Rose suddenly reared back and took a deep breath. “You’re going to walk the red carpet.”

“You know, Marinette,” Lila smiled sweetly. “I would be honored to help you navigate the world of a celebrity. The ball will be so stressful. If you needed me there, I’d be happy to attend.”

“No, thank you,” Marinette said. “My siblings have promised to guide me through. It will be a bonding experience.”

Lila forced a smile on her face, “Of course.” She fought the desire to scream and throw a tantrum. How could this happen?

Adrien on the other hand fought to keep the smile on his face. His father would not be pleased. He had instructed Adrien to get close to Marinette, and thus the Wayne family. Adrien hadn’t had the courage to tell his father that they weren’t friends anymore. And that because of the lack of friendship, the Agreste were not invited to the party of the year.

Marinette went to bed that day with a smile on her face. The Christmas season may have started off rocky but it would get better.

Suddenly her phone started buzzing like it was on fire.

The first text she read was from Chloe: You’re dating Roy Queen?!!!!

Marinette’s entirely body froze. Who?

Suddenly, she got another text… From Jason: Hey Baby Bats, I need a favor! Can you fake date my friend Roy. I already told everyone you guys were a thing. Bruce is freaking out! Thanks! Love you.

Her mouth dropped, raged filled her entire body. And then she remembered how she joked with Alya that she wanted a boyfriend last year for Christmas last year.

“FUCK SANTA!”

#ml salt #batfamily #Marinette deserves better #Marienette Dupain Cheng #bruce #bruce wayne #damian wayne #alya salt

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murdereraisuha · 3 years

Text

screaming about chapter 5 but more coherently this time

This is gonna cover 1. the recent update’s events in comparison to my previous theories & expectations, 2. the winner of the VDC and Vil’s character development 3. Kalim & Jamil’s character development, and 4. the main story moving forward

Spoilers for everything up to 5-67. Word count: 2117

So, in my “Jamil is Snow White” theory post, I used the events of the original Snow White to try and guess how TWST chapter 5 would correlate to it and what characters would fill what roles (Snow White, huntsman, prince, etc.) in the story.

Originally, I kind of assumed the beginning of chapter 5 would line up to either the beginning of the movie or halfway through when the Queen is already hatching her plan to get Snow White with the poison apple. However, it seems like the movie events have actually been compacted into 5-57 to 5-67.

After the NRC rehearsal, Vil becomes the most beautiful, corresponding to the beginning of the movie when the Queen is still the most beautiful. Then, Neige, out of his natural cuteness rather than hard work and practice like Vil, usurps him, representing the point Snow White becomes the fairest in the land. The next part with the apple juice and Rook coming to the rescue is a mix of the next part of the movie, when the huntsman tells Snow White to run, and the part of the movie with the poison apple. Then, the MC and the rest of the dance team kind of act like the dwarves by fighting the Queen/Vil. However, other than that, everyone follows their corresponding role: Neige is Snow White and Rook is the huntsman.

I think the story as it has played out makes sense. I was initially startled by Vil suddenly going murder mode, but. To work so hard on this song and choreography and training up your team, only to have the media love your lifetime rival who’s only brought an arrange of a kid’s song with clumsy singing and dancing to the table, potentially crushing your plan for victory here... I understand Vil’s feelings here and the sudden, desperate decision to curse Neige.

Rook’s actions after that don’t seem too out of line with what we know about his personality and his unconventional beliefs/actions regarding beauty and Vil’s beauty. Seriously though, wtf please don’t just drink poison. Anyway, I really enjoyed Kalim coming in then. The way he noticed Vil’s face being like Jamil’s before his overblot? The part when he tried to remind Vil that no one drank the juice so Vil hasn’t hurt anyone yet? Good stuff right there.

However, the way things played out also disappointed me somewhat. Though we had a Kalim & Jamil interaction, we still haven’t had a good resolution to their character/relationship development, so hopefully that’s in the final part of chapter 5. Furthermore, though Kalim did slap the apple juice away, I really felt like he and Jamil would have had more involvement with poison/curses in this part considering all the stuff in this chapter about Kalim being poisoned in the past.

There’s also the fact that all Jamil did was evacuate the area, it was Kalim and Rook who were around when Vil overblotted. The pattern of the previous overblot causing the next has kind of been broken. It could mean that the pattern was actually the dorm leader causes the next overblot?? Anyway, I’m hoping that Jamil will have his time in the spotlight in the next part.

-----

So that kind of brings me to the future. First off, who will win the VDC? Personally, I think that it will be NRC. With everyone so enthusiastically proclaiming in 5-67 that they’re going to win the championship, it would feel off for them to fail. From things that Vil has said this chapter, like in 5-37 when he admonishes Deuce that effort isn’t enough to succeed, it seems like the bad route/worst case scenario of Vil’s outlook is to lose hope that his efforts will ever give him success or a happy end. Therefore, the good route would be for him to keep hope, to keep the belief that he can get his happy end, and I think winning the VDC would be the thing that would support this belief. I do not think he would learn much from losing; if he has already lost and got relegated to the role of villain so many times before, one more time would not mean much to him.

Other people have said that Vil also needs to learn to chill and stop holding people to such high standards, which is something I agree with. Though Epel’s beliefs on masculinity and power were pretty harmful, Vil’s methods of trying to correct those beliefs were also harmful. Vil’s treatment of Epel at the end of Epel’s ceremony robes story seriously left a bad taste in my mouth. The thing is, something or someone would need to prompt a change in Vil’s beliefs for a change to occur. After Deuce and Epel’s outing, they seem to be pretty chill with Vil, so there aren’t any conflicts in the group. I can’t think of anyone in the team other than Kalim and maybe Ace who would have a strong enough opinion on not pushing yourself too hard that they would try and give that opinion to Vil, and Kalim’s already had a big interaction with Vil in 5-62.

So, I feel like any further Vil character development this chapter would come from an interaction with Neige. Going back to the debate of who will win VDC, we know that Vil resents Neige for always being the hero. If Neige won yet again, would Vil take what he says to heart? However, if Vil won, that would be a new situation. I think that the first things he hears from a Neige that has finally lost would be impactful to him.

I’m not sure though of all this though because of this line in 5-66:

Vil’s saying that throwing a tantrum and taking it out on other people was awful of him. Though it obviously refers to his attempts to murder before and during his overblot, it could also point to an overall shift in mindset regarding how he treats others. His attempts to mold Epel into a poison apple, for example, stemmed from his own ambitions and frustration at Neige, which you could interpret as a sort of tantrum that he then took out on Epel. Vil may have already learned to relax on pushing his high standards on others.

Regardless of if that’s true or not, I personally think that Vil and Neige still have a lot that they could learn from each other, assuming my perception of Neige as being innocent rather than a white lotus is correct. Vil’s team’s performance had a lot of cohesion and rehearsal put into it, but it was very competitive focused. On the other hand, Neige and the dwarves obviously had a lot of fun with their performance. However, it was clumsy and they were ill prepared. Therefore, Vil could teach Neige more discipline and planning while Neige could teach Vil about how to not lose sight of finding joy in your work.

-----

As I have already said, I’m hoping for more Kalim & Jamil stuff in the final part of chapter 5. I originally theorized that something would happen to one of them, probably Kalim, and that would lead to some sort of reveal about their feelings and the chapter would end with them clearly on the trajectory to repair their relationship and really become friends.

Since nothing happened yet and neither got poisoned/cursed, I think then that the event that sparks the finale of their character development would probably relate directly to the VDC. First off for our possibilities, we have the two’s families watching as Jamil takes the spotlight as a main vocal while Kalim is in the back. Given what we know, I don’t think Kalim’s family would be too happy about that. The conflict from that definitely seems like it could result not only in some sort of understanding between Kalim and Jamil, but also maybe even a change in Jamil or his family’s status. For a less dramatic possibility, we also know from 5-47 that Jamil’s sister will be coming to watch. If she makes an appearance, perhaps she will have some unexpected insight to say that would lead to a discussion & development between Jamil and Kalim.

Finally, my Jamil becomes the most beautiful theory might still be partially true, though idk if that’s just me not wanting to give up on it cause of how funny it would be. Basically, the theory was that, after the VDC performances, the internet/media become super interested in Jamil due to how talented and handsome he is. I originally thought that could serve as a factor for Vil overblot, but now I think it could prompt some discussion & development between Jamil and Kalim due to it serving as a clear example of Jamil finally showing his true ability and by how much Jamil was letting Kalim win. Furthermore, Vil might be affected by an event like that. Though the overblot’s already happened, perhaps something happening with Jamil specifically would lead to something happening between him and Vil, fulfilling the pattern of the previous overblot doing stuff with the next. I’m out of ideas for the Scarabia boys, so let’s continue.

-----

Honestly, I don’t think anything will happen with Idia and Ortho outside of a quick teaser at the very end of the chapter. Considering that we still have to cover all the stuff with the VDC performance and its results and the aftermath of the results, Idia’s presentation thingy might not even happen until chapter 6. ?

Idk, rn I’m more concerned about the overarching plot with Mickey Mouse than I am about chapter 6 Ignihyde shenanigans. So, we had a little flash of the Queen/Hag during the day, and also we finally discovered that Malleus is Malleus. So things are picking up a bit. I’m not sure if something unexpectedly big this chapter will happen though. I’ve seen people saying that the boss was surprisingly easy so there might be another big battle coming up. I don’t actually play the game so I don’t know anything about that, is it intentional or is it just that the chapter took so long to update that y’all had tons of time to beef up your boys? For me, it did feel like the Vil overblot was the climax of the chapter. With all the other stuff like the VDC results and the Scarabia boys’ character development, I don’t know if there’s any more room. There could be some big new info with Mickey Mouse or Grim’s bad eating habit, but I can’t picture something happening that would warrant another boss battle.

I do have some thoughts on Mickey Mouse, but I think I’ll save my memey ones for another post and wait for the end of chapter 5 before getting my serious thoughts together. Anyway, now a little talk on chapter 6. So, we have 4 options: chapter 6 will be something regarding Idia’s presentation, something regarding Deuce borrowing the magical wheel, something combining those two plot points, or something else entirely.

Well, for something combining those two, Riddle was the one wanting Idia to go do the presentation in person, right? So, Idia probably doesn’t like Riddle that much. Maybe he wants to make some sort of plan to get back at Riddle. What can he use?

Uh I just looked back at 5-39 to figure out what exactly is up and one translation says Deuce forcefully borrowed the magical wheel and another says he borrowed it as a huge favor??? The original says 無理言って借りてきた, deepL translates it as forcibly borrowed, 無理を言って means asking for something unreasonable. What exactly are the circumstances here?

Okay whatever, look, Deuce is in some sort of debt to Ignihyde. Idia could use him since he and Riddle are in the same dorm. Idk my train of thought got wrecked by the translation confusion.

But anyway so we know Deuce is probably gonna be Meg. I’ve never watched Hercules and I don’t know anything about it aside from what I’ve just read on wikipedia. The summary there says that Hercules kills a bunch of monsters and becomes famous then Hades holds Meg hostage in exchange for Hercule’s powers and Hercules accepts the trade but then “Hades reveals that Meg was working for Hades all along” ??? And then in the end though “ Hercules chooses to remain on Earth with Meg”. So what happens, is Meg good or what? Alright it might be better to at least wait for whatever sneak peek of chapter 6 we get at the end of chapter 5 before speculating. Let’s end this here before it gets any longer.

#twst #twisted wonderland #twst spoilers #twst analysis #twst theories #vil schoenheit #kalim al asim #jamil viper #update screaming

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une-nuit-pour-se-souvenir · 3 years

Note

I’ve seen you write a bit about lemongate/the red door and it foreshadowing Dany burning King’s Landing. I wonder if it’s also another way of showing how Dany is taking the "opposite" path of going home, as lemons are mainly connected to Dorne. Dorne, that she lost all chance of being welcomed in when Quentyn died and that she seems to be on a further collision course with in TWOW. She is herself burning away any path back ”home” she could have ever had.

Lemongate as people often perceive it doesn’t particularly exist, if GRRM acrually understands citrus trees. They simply do not flower and / or bear fruit if temperature drops below a certain point. Such, lemon trees once bearing flowers / fruits in Braavos ten years ago (when Daniella was there), but not at present (when Arya is there), simply means temperature is dropping (winter is coming).

However, lemons are also connected with three narrative points.

* Sansa loves lemoncakes (lemon + sugar, a “sweet lemon if you will”. She also has some... interesting imagery with it. i cannot recall another character having such an insistance on a particular food either.

* Dorne where citrus trees flourish. They also come associated with the Martells in general, but in specific way: justice for Elia / Martells over what a Targaryen / (usurpers of= King’s Landing has done against them.

* Danerys’ remembering a lemon tree, which always comes together with the house with the red door. Now, the house with the red door is a metaphor for Danerys burning King’s Landing. Every single mention of a red door (even in a very oblique way) comes with the imagery of burning the city.

It’s difficult to look at all three and not say they must be connected. It’s easier to look from top to bottom. In the third point, we have the red door (Danerys burning King’s Landing) and the lemon tree (whatever it may represent) that come together, therefore both are bad imagery. There’s really no way around it. Whatever the lemon tree represents, i’s something as negative as Danerys’ burning King’s Landing.

After S8 aired, there’s been some speculation that Aegon might have taken Cersei’s plotline, such in the books its Aegon that sits in King’s Landing and Danerys burns the whole thing down in anger. Aegon is half-Martell. Such an event would also tie with the second point, the narrative association of how Targaryens / (usurpers of King’s Landing) have screwed over the Martells.

Seen under this light, we have Danerys burning King’s Landing (house with the red door), to usurp / kill a Martell (lemon tree). Such, the lemon tree’s existance (Aegon) comes tied with the red door (burning of King’s Landing). It fits nicely with both those that think that Aegon = Sun’s Son “prophecy” which signals him as a Martell as well as Undying visions, as Danerys rejecting the house of the red door (the lemon tree outside is specifically mentioned), is followed by Aerys ordering to burn King’s Landing so the usurper (in his mind, but Bobby B won fair and square) can’t have it, then followed by Elia with baby Ageon on her lap (the Sun’s Son).

In this straightforward reading (?), Sansa’s love for lemoncakes is irrelevant.

Now, there’s a sleight of hand here, I think. Before season 8, I hadn’t even considered Aegon’s role. It was only after that I did, before we were all too concentrated on Jon Snow being the rightful heir and blah blah. Hell, he still might be, after Aegon (or even over him, as there’s no need for the show to go for the “annullment” plotline when Targs had multiple wives before. But that doesn’t matter really, those are details. Still, Jon was born, of all places... in Dorne. Like lemons do.

The Targaryens’ betrayal of Dorne is also tied to Jon. Not only he’s the representation of such betrayal, but also a mirror image of such betrayal. Rhaegar failed to protect both his wives, Martell and Stark (fire and ice, uh) from dying, and (some) of his kids only survived because their mothers hatched a plan for them to live in clandestinity with other “fathers” if you will. Ned took Jon as his own kid, while Connington comes to think of Aegon as his own too (it’s even part of their desguise).

And Jon is narratively connected with Sansa, who does loves lemoncakes. Which isn’t really relevant, unless their bond is relevant, and Jon does betray Danerys... for love. Another thing I’ve been growing to lately, is Jon’s “failed” attachement to Robb which he couldn’t help during his own, contrasted / paralleled with a potential attachment to Aegon “Martell”. I kind of doubt that the brothers would strike such a bond that Jon betraying Danerys for Aegon’s sake alone would fit a “treason for love” (and it would be revenge, as poor Aegon will likely be dead at this point), but its true S8 framed Jon betraying Danerys for the Starks as familial love. Yes, the latter doesn’t really tie with Sansa’s lemoncakes, but we can have both.

Interestingly, this fits the Sun’s Son prophecy (followed by the mummer’s dragon), as well as the imagery of Danerys’ House of Undying visions as well. The vision preceding the house of the red door is the Red Wedding (or “a” Red Wedding part 2, a Stark affair which points to Robb and / or Jon and / or the relationship between Robb (called often the Young Wolf) and Jon, which again can also be present in a potential relationship between Aegon (called often Young Griff) and Jon). Then the house of the red door contains that old man that Danerys’ considered family (meta for Aegon perhaps) while the lemon tree stays outside (meta for Jon), then followed by Aerys ordering his pyromancer to burn King’s Landing (pyromancer = Drogon), finally Elia with baby Aegon (speaks for himself) and Rhaegar warning “the dragon has three heads, there must be one more” (Jon).

I gotta say that the following House of Undying vision is often dismissed, the one with the group of wizards. I very much doubt that shouldn’t be taken into account as they come after a weirwood door (Stark) and five that I think are stand-ins for the remaining Starks + Theon. I’m still not convinced Jon is the one that shanks the bitch. Maybe a group effort or something.

Anyway, I highly rambled. Before s8 I didn’t consider it, but after s8 and the Aegon is Cersei speculations, I agree with you that the lemon tree must refer to the Martells in some fashion. I do think is due to Aegon himself and / or through Jon, not through Quentyn. But as GRRM says he often does foreshadowing in more than one layer. I’ll say it fits the overal thematic as well. Danerys’ rejecting Quentyn’s offer and roasting him with dragonfire, which (most likely) triggers his sister moving against her in revenge and to protect her own would nicely foreshadow Danerys’ rejecting Aegon as king (he may even offer marriage, the poor guy... death is preferable, he just doesn’t know it) and roasting him (and KL) with dragonfire, whch could trigger his half-brother in revenge and to protect here own.

This is a garbled mess because I have been awake for 36 hours and for that I apologise. Still, I think my overall point s kind of explained.

#and now i must go buy a teapot

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rametarin · 3 years

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We deal with this, “fiction is reality” shit EVERY. GENERATION.

And I mean it comes back among authoritarians playing to sheep EVERY fucking generation on different pretenses.

It always boils down to a bunch of people that are insecure about the effects of culture and media on other people, and as a flimsy pretense/pretext to restrict access to things to other people “in society” for their own safety and sense of security.

And when it comes to, “obscene literature” or illustrations, the source is always jealousy, insecurity and an attempt to reduce other people down to a demographic statistic. Whether it’s reducing black people to a caricature and acting like hip-hop just turns the kids into violent, drug abusing, psychotic felons, or imagining pornography is what turns people into horny fucking do-nothings, it’s always about control.

And we’ve put it off for so long. We’ve put off the conversation about just what demographic these people play to in order to get traction and followers and staying power and warm bodies for their movements. They’re the demographic that makes antis- work, the demographic that screams for censorship because illustrations “hurt them personally,” or “cause men to hurt them.”

I’m talking about women. Particularly, cis women, as trans women are not in numbers enough to affect anything, and it is EXPLICITLY IMPORTANT that the source of the offense and complaint come from the population that are the gateway through which the next generation is born and brought up.

Individual men may be so clueless as to assume the way degeneration works is a person is left improperly or negligently nurtured, and so just make bad decisions because, “they were never taught better.” They embrace the idea that people only do bad shit because, “the society,” isn’t paying attention, or that individual people are just blank slates beholden to the righteousness and morality of the cultural hivemind of said society. That Society is an objective effect, and if bad people exist, it’s proof to them that there’s something wrong with said society.

But individual men know that the bad actions of other men are not caused solely by “male culture,” or the absence of it, or shitty “role models.” They see the shitty natural inborn attitudes of other men, and despite being raised in shitty conditions, naturally develop a good head on their shoulders, and despise actions like that. As men you can’t HELP but grow up watching boys around you make shitty decisions based on shitty impulse control and, no matter how often they’re punished, how much they’re loved, how much they’re compassionately talked to, STILL act the fool and wind up as terrible, stealing, violent adults. As men you can’t do anything BUT reconcile that some people are just fucking shitheads, and the idea as a man YOU should be punished or treated like the “association” of men itself is at fault, smacks of sexism. The same sort of sexism women’s lib supposedly is against- at least, when it happens to women.

Women, however, are not men, are not privy to the thoughts and feelings of men. Men are abstracts to these women, many of whom are so solipsistic or gynocentrist that they just see men as a class of monsters in a videogame. Just a pattern of individuals that surely must all get their code and culture from “society.” Clearly, when there’s bad men about, it’s proof this “society” isn’t doing everything it can to mollify and gentrify those horrible beastly men to make them safe and not dangerous and productive.

These women that see men like living aggregates for society, imagine that in order to “keep men working properly,” they need to not have “bad moral influences,” treating pornography and access to drugs and literature like a cleaning lady treats dirt on linen. They imagine that the only reason rape or murder or theft by men occurs is because “there’s a problem with men, thinking that is okay.” Like the only reason your average man isn’t running around violently raping people or killing them is because they sang enough hymns at church- by force. Or because they were prevented from, “getting deranged by wrongthink.”

So with this in mind, how do they imagine porn affects men, male minds, and this big abstract-turned-monolithic-concept called, “society?”

Well, they imagine fiction is reality. That if “people of lesser intellect” read a thing, then they’ll inherently believe it, because, “it presents itself as factual and reality.” When.. no. That’s not how it works. They believe, absolutely, that without some mechanism there to go, “BUT WE’RE JUST PRETENDING THO, IT’S NOT REAL!” that will inherently make people, whom all have tenuous and toddler-like grasps of reality and object permanence, think a thing in fiction is real and applies to reality.

And naturally, they see men as people of lesser intellect. So they reason, those dangerous statistical anomalies are just men that haven’t been browbeaten, and whom are subject to any given negative influence or writing or opinion or culture that preaches values and ideas incongruent with their preferences, as women. Therefore, they conclude, fiction that does not preach their “good values” is in fact advocating bad ones, bad habits, bad moral character, bad mental health- call it whatever you want based on your generation. It’s ALL THE SAME SHIT. All the same knee-jerk moralism based on justifying societal and institutional use of force to restrict and arbitrate and judiciously enforce and justify dictating censorship and good-think. It’s just a question of where that basis comes from.

And theres’ ultimately no reasoning with that culture of women when they grasp hold of a thing that appeals to them, flatters and justifies their prejudices and biases. You can sit there colorfully or dryly explaining the ways in which this shitty point of view is wrong, much as you can try to walk back a persons beliefs in their homophobia that they base on religious purism or use the purism to validate their homophobia, but you cannot just get them individually to give up those nice, comfortable beliefs.

And when grouped together for mutual support and validation, it becomes this negative-thought, field of fucking SHEEP braying “Nuuuh-uuuh!” and arguing for restriction of content and sanitation and disbarrment from certain subject matter to be in consumable porn or literature or even just art. The only thing keeping them in check being the consequences for vandalism, and the ability for a community or institution to police out the bias usurpers that would seek to enter their foundations and run them on behalf of the values of these easily upset, insecure sheep.

every FUCKING generation, it manifests in some manner. Be they from church ladies, to radical feminists, to intersectional feminists. If you capture the imaginations, insecurities, jealousies, foster and sanction them, interpret them, get young women believing them, participating in the romance that tells them the way to change the bad things or take the edge off the bad men is to foster and enable authoritarianism (be it regional social, regional institutional, or federal institutional) then you have this neverending avalanche of unending support for it. Be it from dictators, or just from pure ideology from a doctrine. They’ll do it. And stubbornly and obstinately believe in whatever compliments their biases, to the contradiction of everything.

And while you can remove a man and his influences on the next gen from the home, from the social radius of the next generation to be a significant source of culture and how they relate to young people, removing women from the equation, from whom the next generation comes from, is virtually impossible. So a male zealot, already susceptible to scrutiny and punishment for being so wild and zealous with their beliefs, can be retaliated against, muted, beaten and removed from relevance until they censor themselves or change their tune.

But you cannot do that to a female human, or women/mothers as a sex, without both women AND men taking it as an attack on humanity at their most prime and kernel. It has to be done with disproportionate authoritarian state power that does not fear mass dissent and violent retaliation, or it isn’t done at all.

So these zealous Karens that embrace wholly these ideas enabling authoritarianism under a banner they approve of, are allowed to propagate unchallenged, and even if challenged, cannot be subdued or subverted. Their own little cliques and echo chambers and lack of desire to even consider their positions are wrong. Any attempt to point the fingers at this very real, disproportionate and characteristic, objective power female humans have just on the basis of their sex and how that relates among them socially, can and will be trash binned arbitrarily as, “sexism.” Despite the fact, it’s absolutely true.

So long as women that believe “society” is an objective, monolithic thing from which, “that other sex” and other women get their marching orders on how to BE what they are, and don’t see them as billions of individuals with their own ambitions, instincts, inborn personality and character flaws, independent of “society’s failures,” believing those people can be saved or corrected IF ONLY WE CENSOR EVERYTHING or make all media “good thing,” we’re just going to have people with illiberal beliefs asserting their dominance and insisting it’s for the soul of the species, society and the planet.

I mean yeah there are male antis and shit, but honestly. Tell me honestly. How many fucking deranged fandom people that are doing shit like mailing cookies with sewing needles backed into them are male gendered or male sexed, either? As uncomfortable as it may be to acknowledge or consider this might have a sexual grounding, I’m sorry. Not acknowledging it is simply rejecting reality.

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kbmercer · 3 years

Text

Chapter 2: A New Beginning

[Life’s A Journey]

Summary:

A lot had happened after they parted ways. Nevertheless, the threads that tie them together remained. From children to adults, a reunion that’s long overdue leads the trio to embark on another journey.

Just like old times.

Word Count: 3.8k+

The first thing (Y/n) does when they enter Sonia’s room is divebomb onto her bed. The plush mattress effectively absorbs the weight of their descent and the trainer curls in on themselves like a Litten.

“Don’t get too comfortable,” the redhead giggles as she swiftly usurps her pillow from the resting spot.

“We have a lot to catch up on,” she says as she shoots a glance at Leon. He had relegated himself to sitting in her vanity chair.

“Yeah. Let’s not let this time go to waste!”

“Ugh. Don’t we talk to each other over the phone already?” Leon laughs as Sonia beats (Y/n) with the pillow.

“I’m kidding!” They laugh as they feebly block her attacks.

“There’s no doubt that we have a lot to catch up on, even though we do talk on the phone—especially with you.” They playfully point an accusatory finger at the violet-haired man.

Leon scratches the back of his head abashedly. “Yeah…It’s been a while…”

“I swear, both of you are so limited on time. Sometimes I feel like I’m the one keeping you two in check.” With a hand on her hip, Sonia’s lip juts out in a mild pout and (Y/n) hums.

“Not just you. Hop is mighty loquacious. I’d even go as far to say that I talk to him more than the both of you.”

While Sonia let’s out a noise of surprise, Leon chuckles.

“I suspected as much. If it’s not Gloria or me, then it’s you.”

“Ah, the new champ? I can’t believe it’s been over a year already. How’s she holding up?” (Y/n) moves from their lying position to prop their head onto their hand. Leon shifts in his seat.

“She reminds me a lot of myself. I love the battles and putting a smile on the people of Galar’s face but outside of that—paperwork, meetings with businessmen, sponsorships—it’s not the best. I see the same happening with her.”

“Oof. That’s a bummer. Though, I’m sure she’s a smart kid and will push past that.” Leon agrees with a nod. As he looks back, his business relations weren’t all too terrible. As he grew into the Champion role he had the likes of Rose and Oleana to assist. He will be forever grateful for that help and has been using that knowledge to do the same for Gloria.

“The Galar League is very different from all other regions. While the League is a big deal everywhere else to some extent, Galar is on a different level entirely. It’s like battling here is integral to life, even if you don’t progress very far…”

“That may be true, but I still think that in terms of overall prowess, Galar has a lot to work on.” Leon’s expressive contemplativeness elicits quiet laughs from them and Sonia.

“Stop it. Give Galar a lil’ more credit!” They sit up and cross their legs.

“You’ve still held on to that dream, huh.” Sonia says admirably. Her phrasing was more-so a statement than a question.

It was as if the temperature grew a bit warmer as both (Y/n) and their red-headed friend watched the fire in Leon’s bright eyes glow.

“The dream to make the people of Galar the strongest in the world. A noble endeavor,” (Y/n) teases though Leon pays no mind.

“I meant it then and I mean it now. If I can contribute to making that goal a reality I’ll do what I can.”

“You’ve already done more than enough…” Sonia smiles and (Y/n) intercedes.

“You’re such an over-achiever!”

“You’re ones to talk,” the ex-Champion counters. He swiftly moves from the chair and scoops (Y/n) off Sonia’s bed. They sputter a protest as they’re lifted. The strength that both of their friends possessed was astounding.

“Speaking of champs—congrats on becoming the Unova Champ, mate!”

(E/c) eyes stare into the man’s amber before they begin laughing once more.

“You’re a little too late. Have been Champion for a few years now.”

“Yes, and in those few years we’ve yet to see you. I think it’s high-time to give a proper celebration don’t you think?” They huff before landing a light punch to his chest.

“You don’t have to do that.”

“No no. I want to.”

“Don’t let this opportunity slip, (Y/n)! We need to make the most of this while we can!” Sonia presses. (Y/n) was never one for parties but seeing both her friends adamantly agree to the idea is something that they couldn’t bring themselves to reject.

“Fine,” they concede with a sigh. “But don’t get ahead of yourselves. We’re keeping it small.”

Both nod happily. Even though Leon and Sonia are relatively private people, they weren’t above going wild at grand parties.

“I also think it’s high-time that we have a battle for old times sake!” (Y/n) huffs at his enthusiasm.

“Always the one to jump right into it, yeah?” Ah, well, it’s not like I didn’t see it coming.” They shrug as a smug smile grows on their face.

“I’m sure Hop gave you the Mega Stones?” Leon’s eyes grow as he is reminded of this. In his excitement for meeting (Y/n), he had forgotten about the items in his possession. Fishing them out of his pocket he showcases them to the two in the room. Sonia gasps, the academic in her rears its head.

“A Charizardite X?! These stones are so rare to find! How’d you get your hands on them?! Her verdant irises analyze the items. The ex-champion hands them to the professor to further examine to which she does with vigor.

“During my time in Kalos, I came across a hiker that was selling ore. It happened to be within the bunch.” Crossing their arms, (Y/n) lulls their head to the side. “It’s been sitting in my bag for a while and that’s just a waste.” They jut a thumb toward the violet-haired man. “There’s only one person I know that has a Charizard.”

“It’s nice to know that you think of me whenever Charizard is a topic.”

“Hmm. My colleagues like to drag me on escapades after the League challenges end. So, I’ve been dragged into helping study Mega Evolution.”

“You said that you didn’t find out anything new?” Sonia asks. She was fully aware of the work her childhood friend had been doing but had never gotten close to an artifact closely linked to the profound Evolution.

“We haven’t. The stones are a thing we’ve known about for a while, there just isn’t a whole lot of information about Mega Evolution’s history. As much as I’d like to explain further, we’d be here all day. Plus, it’d be better to learn first-hand right?”

“Go on then,” she agrees giving the item back to Leon and they head out the room and down the stairs.

As the trio make their way out the house, they join with Hop and Magnolia. The younger brother was busy tossing a ball out to the slew of pokémon that occupied the field. (Y/n) and Leon both had released their teams for some exercise, and it looked like they were having a blast. Most of them were passing the play-thing around before returning it to the teen while Magnolia stood elsewhere leisurely waving a feather toy at Babe and Yamper.

Noticing the pokémon’s attention being shifted away from the ball causes the boy to follow their line of sight.

“Done having your convo already?”

“Not quite,” Leon says as he rolls his shoulders. “We’re gonna take the pitch and have us a good battle.”

“This will be a one-on-one for now. We’re testing things out.” While the explanation was pretty vague on it’s own, Hop understands what the Unova Champion means. He was about to see what Mega Evolution was all about.

With a small cheer in anticipation, he is quick to help corral the pokémon away from the violet-clad battlefield. Sonia and Magnolia meet together on the sidelines and the former professor hums.

“I will take the position of referee if that is alright with you all.”

(Y/n) smiles, “Not at all.”

“That’s more than alright, Gran. Besides, I want to document as much as I possibly can.” She pulls a memo pad from her coat pocket and calls her Rotom Phone forward to record.

“Alright, Charizard. You’re up.” The fire-flying type gives out a sprightly roar and takes a battle stance on his trainer’s end of the pitch.

Lulu, (Y/n)’s Lopunny is called forward. With a prompt explanation, the rabbit pokémon shares a determined look with her trainer and confidently enters the field. Leon takes note of the pink bow that (Y/n) wrapped around the pokémon’s left ear, a stone similar to Charizard’s was in the center but in shades of yellow and brown.

The tension in the air is palpable. Both pokémon keep their eyes on each other as they stand off. Seconds feel like minutes, then Professor Magnolia commences the battle with the stamp of a cane. In a split-second, Charizard and Lulu are already at each other. Padded paws grip sharp claws as both pokémon dig their heels into the sturdy ground, their strength being pushed against one another prevent any sort of pushback before the two ultimately separate. Jumping back to their ends of the field, both pokémon lunge at each other once more to meet in the center.

“Charizard, use Dragon Claw!”

“Counter with Mega Punch!”

The physical attacks make impact, the force of both coming together leaving a blast of air in their wake as it billows throughout the area. (Y/n) feels it flow through their clothing and Leon felt it weave through his hair. The greenery that surrounds them rustle loudly as the fight continues.

“Fire Fang!”

“Dodge and use Shadow Ball!”

Taking a leap over Charizard, Lulu creates a sphere of ominous energy in between her paws and brings it down on her adversary, though Charizard is quick on his feet and redirects. The Shadow Ball is destroyed as he brings his heated fangs down on the attack. The spectral power is enough to nullify his Fire Fang however, and the flames in his maw dissipate. Lulu gives a teasing snicker and Charizard releases a low growl blowing the aftermath of smoke from his nose.

“Brutal Swing!”

“Breaking Swipe!”

Both trainers had shouted their commands in unison. The two pokémon go for a sweep but are caught at an impasse once more. (Y/n) hums amusedly. If their attacks were going to constantly be nulled, this match was going to be a lengthy one. Leon appears to share the same sentiment.

“I guess some things never change! Even now we still manage to hold each other off!” The glint in the former champ’s warm amber eyes showed a sense of renewed spirit and anticipation. (Y/n) responds in kind.

“You and I have only gotten stronger since times past. It’s only natural we’d be neck and neck with each other again.” Their smile was prideful, (e/c) eyes harboring mischief. “But we also understand that one of us will slip-up eventually. Regardless of who that may be, Lulu and I will give our 110 percent!” Leon lets out a joyful laugh.

“Well said! We won’t lose, so prepare yourself!”

As they stand by, Sonia and Hop can feel their hearts race. Spectating Leon and (Y/n) as both stand assertively and give quick-witted directions to their pokémon was a sight to behold. Swift and graceful movements between Charizard and Lopunny almost look like a dance. Neither of them let up and devote all their focus on both the opponent and the commands of their respective trainers. Directions continued to be shouted and every time both pokémon went to deal damage it would only end in a stalemate. The clock ticks and Sonia soon begins to notice that the two creatures are starting to grow tired. Movement starts to slow down little by little. Room for exploiting weak points were gradually opening for them both. Meanwhile, Hop and Professor Magnolia gauge the Mega Stones that Charizard and Lulu wear. Both had gradually begun to glow the longer the two butt heads. It was only a matter of time before their power took effect. Though, the call to transformation was a two-way street.

(Y/n) is quick to make the call.

“Alright! I think it’s time we speed up the process. As much as I love a good battle, I don’t have all day,” (Y/n)’s words are teasing as they move their hand to wrap around their Key Stone. The Key Stone activates, and Lulu’s Mega Stone reacts. The symbol that lie in the center of Lulu’s Lopunnite glows radiantly and the warm mix of yellow and brown is overtaken by an ethereal rainbow. The multicolored aura expands, encasing the pokémon in a prominent crystal before it breaks open to reveal the Lopunny’s transformation. Her appearance is more dynamic with the fur on her ears being shaved down—the tuft being more prominent at the top of the head in the reminiscent form of a butterfly. Voices of wonder flow through the audience. With a flourish, Lulu takes an arm and sweeps a long ear away from her face before taking a boxing stance.

Leon had watched their actions intently and the activation to Mega Evolution seemed simple enough. He is quick to follow suit.

“I’m game for a quick-fire round. Let’s make things more interesting!” He takes his hand and places it over the brooch he’d pinned to his outfit and the glow of the Charizardite X does the same. Charizard is encased in a similar crystal before it falls away. There was no longer a trace of warmth in the skin with orange being replaced with black. His wings have become more pointed and perhaps the most notable feature resulting from the transformation was the bright blue flames that kindle at the jaw and tail. The new power elicits a booming cry from Leon’s companion as he regards his opponent once more. Then the two fighters continue to exchange blows.

“Iron Tail,” Charizard’s tail moves hit Lopunny and she braces for the impact. The damage taken was minimal as the rabbit pokémon listens for her trainer’s orders.

“Ice Punch.” In one swift movement, Lulu utilizes their close distance to hit Charizard on the chest, giving an effective blow. With a grunt, the fire-dragon type jumps back to make space.

“Dragon Pulse.” He opens his mouth as the fire between his jaws grows larger before blowing the flames.

“Use Agility and dodge it,” Lulu just barely bypasses the heat and increases her speed.

“Go for another Ice Punch!” Frigid crystals enclose around Lulu’s fist once more as she goes in for another strike.

“Not a chance!” Leon interjects before giving another command. “Let’s take this up high!” He points skyward with vigor and Charizard follows the order, spreading his wings and lifting off the ground.

(Y/n)’s lips press into a thin line, though it’s gone as soon as it appears. It’s clear that Charizard was now at an advantage, but surely Lulu is more than capable of taking that away.

“Alrighty, Lulu. Let’s meet ‘em there with a Bounce.” In one swift motion, the normal-fighting type gauges Charizard’s location in the air before reaching him in the sky with little to no effort.

“Chip-away with Acrobatics!” With whatever momentum she had in the forever space, Lulu flips and kicks at Charizard utilizing every part of her body—arms, legs, and ears to hit at him rapidly. She manages land a few but is quickly met with retaliation.

“Take her down with an Air Slash!” Leon’s command is instantly met with the action as if they were in synch.

Charizard flaps his wings rapidly to create a razor sharp current of air to which Lopunny takes the blunt force of, being sent back to solid-ground. (Y/n)’s jaw clenches for a moment but they think fast on a method to break their partner’s fall.

“Use Acrobatics once more and land on your feet!” Having heard loud and clear, Lulu tucks in on herself as she speedily descends. Doing a few flips mid-air, Lulu lands on the battlefield safely albeit the velocity. Charizard remains in the air as it seems that Leon is banking on this tactic. It was time to change that.

“Use Bounce! One more time!”

Lulu meets with Charizard in the air once more and the fire-dragon rears for another Air Slash—a mistake that could very well hand them the match.

“Perfect. Go for the wing!” Before Lulu can suffer another super-effective blow, she intercepts by using another bout of Acrobatics to nullify both of their flying-type attacks. Lulu takes the split-second after the nullification to latch on to Charizard’s wing. This action served as a surprise to everyone watching as the rabbit pokémon utilizes Charizard’s weight to swing, using his appendage like a trapeze. Releasing the wing from her grasp, Lulu moves into a 180 back-flip effectively landing on Charizard’s back.

“Drain Punch, let’s go!” A hefty strike to the back destabilizes Charizard’s flight and in the shock brought on by the sapping of his energy, he starts to rapidly fall. Leon’s brows furrow bringing wrinkles to his forehead as he feels the pressure of the fight get heavier. While he’s had plenty of experience in battles, (Y/n)’s unconventional strategies always found a way to turn the tables. It’s something he had noticed back when they’d battled in the Gym Challenge as children. Now as adults battling once again, he’s noticed that their skill in unconventional thinking hadn’t gone away. If anything, it’s gotten stronger alongside their team. Lulu had not missed a beat despite the large risk and managed to pull through. Her partner trusted them completely—relying on them to make the correct calls and obeying without hesitation. Unfortunately for (Y/n), he could say the same for he and Charizard.

“Use this descent to your advantage! Take her down with you and use Heat Crash!” (Y/n)’s eyes widen at this command watching on in growing disdain.

Charizard moves to shake from Lulu from his back avoiding her attempts to take hold and remain on his back. The strong blue flames that flowed from his mouth along with the flame at the end of his tail grew larger and crept along Charizard’s body until he was wholly engulfed in the flame. He feels no pain, but Lulu does and continues to feel the searing heat as they torpedo into the field. Obviously, Charizard uses his opponent to break the fall and (Y/n)’s heart races—faster than it had in a long time. A crater was made in the ground kicking up chunks of dirt and leaving a larger dust cloud.

(Y/n)’s teeth grind together before they call out to their partner. Both trainers wait a bit as the cloud in front of them disperses. Taking a breath, they grin. Both partners remained conscious on the field thought they both look petered out, though Lopunny looked too worse for wear. She had endured and the Unova champ felt nothing but pride.

This conflict was reaching its end and if they wanted to win, they’d have to do it quickly. Both pokémon remained in close proximity to each other, creating distance wasn’t an option anymore.

“Dragon Claw,” Leon shouts.

“Swift,” (Y/n) commands in tandem. The star-like projectiles that come of the attack are easily destroyed by the Charizard’s heavy swipes, but they only served as a distraction.

Gotcha.

“Low Kick,” without a second to spare. Lulu kicks out their legs using his weight against him. The disorientation that follows is exactly what they need to bring this to a close.

“Alright! Finish the job with Play Rough!” Lulu holds Charizard down and uses the remainder of her energy to thrash with the fire-flying type. The dirt and debris that accumulated throughout the fight created yet another opaque cloud within the battlefield though (Y/n) didn’t need to see pass to know that the brawl was over.

Sure enough, as the dust settles, Charizard is down for the count. He had reverted back to his normal self—no black seen in his skin, just the warmth of orange. Lulu managed to stay standing but just barely. The rabbit stood in a fighting stance despite the outcome and only falters at the words spoken by Magnolia.

“Charizard is unable to battle. Lulu is the victor.”

The pokémon’s Mega transformation dissipates as the pokémon falls forward and into a kneel. The jovial cheers of their spectators mixes with (Y/n)’s own as they’re quick to assist Lulu in regaining her health.

“You did wonderfully, Lulu! I’m so proud of you!” They bring their companion in for a hug and she reciprocates in kind before separating. Turning to see Leon tending to Charizard, the Unova champion praises the winged creature.

“I’m honestly very surprised. For a first timer, he did a top-notch job.” Leon smiles as he looks up at (Y/n) from his squatting position.

“That’s good to hear,” his gaze shifts to look back at Charizard. Despite the loss, his partner was in high-spirits— more enthusiastic than he was before the fight, in fact.

“It’s one thing to see the photos and read about it. Obviously, utilizing the change in battle is a completely different experience.”

“So what’d ya think?”

“I think it’s great. Maybe the reason Charizard could get the hang of it so quickly was because the transformation is sort of like Gigantamax in a way. They change form and unlock strengths and abilities that they wouldn’t have otherwise.”

“That’s why I’m so interested in it. Dynamax and Gigantamax seem to be a capability that is exclusive to Galar with the use of hotspots and wishing stars, but Mega Evolution is something that can be utilized anytime and anywhere, no matter the region. All you need are the proper stones and a close bond with your partner.” They take their hand to make a fanning gesture.

“I’ve kinda already spieled about this, so I’ll cut to the chase. Keep the stones and add them to your arsenal. It won’t hurt to shake things up a little bit.” Leon had since moved from his squat to stand.

“Sounds like a plan. We’d never reject this opportunity to get stronger, isn’t that right?” Charizard grunts in affirmation. (Y/n) laughs.

“And we’ll look forward to it.”

After the post-battle the exchange Magnolia, Sonia, and Hop meet them on the field.

“That battle was so awesome!” The teen enthused with a twinkle settled in his already bright eyes.

“I’ve only ever seen a few Mega Evolution battles in my lifetime, and they never cease to amaze me.” Magnolia agrees.

“I’m so glad Rotom was recording. My heart was beating out of my chest that I failed to take notes,” Sonia whines. “At least I can re-watch it…”

“You’d best make use of this great power and hone your skill of it, ya hear?” The elder presses to which Leon nods his head with no hesitation.

“Definitely.”

****************************

I started shiny hatching and just never made it back…I managed to obtain 8 new shinies in the span of a month. Hyper-fixation at its finest.

Relegating Pokémon move sets to only four at a time is boring, so I removes that aspect. I understand why this is a thing in-game, but this is a story. I feel like pokémon should have access to their entire move pool—both learned and through TM/TR.

#pokemon #pokemon sword and shield #reader insert #gender neutral reader #pokemon leon x reader #pokemon sonia x reader #professor magnolia #pokemon hop #charizard #lopunny #mega charizard #mega lopunny

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jonathanrook · 3 years

Note

legally i have to give you intern 2

em you have awoken an ungodly beast inside me so i need to warn everyone that this post is. incomprehensible. but so is mymusic so i guess we're all used to it.

How I feel about this character:

i watched mymusic as it was airing/running/coming out specifically bc i'm a jack stannie, and as a kid melvin was my second favorite character (w scene being in first, obvs) for mostly that reason. he basically hovered around this ranking until my most recent rewatch in the summer of 2020, which was actually spurred by some events in my personal life that vaguely reminded me of scene's season two arc w jeff, and i thought it'd been a funny/nostalgic way to get my mind off things.

(i want to side note here that -- i know you didn't ask, but -- i love jeff. i have since i was a kid. like, obviously not as a person but i think he's honestly the best written character in the series, w indie close in second. idk what it says about the f*nes that their most interesting and well rounded characters are the villains, but i digress. to this day i'm salty that jeff never got added to the theme song and wasn't really included in promotional merch.)

however, in said rewatch, certain things about how he was written started to really get under my skin, and certain moments in particular have really stuck out to me in a negative way. like, for the entirety of season one and a good chunk of season two he's one person, and then he leaves mymusic and we have an entirely different person, but not in a nuanced character building sort of way.

i've said a few of these points before but i'll repeat them here regardless. at the risk of sounding like i've put on a tin-foil hat, it's my sneaking suspicion that scindie was supposed to be endgame, but since fan reception to it was pretty neutral, and scenechart stans were, at the very least, more vocal, changes were made to the intended finale, which is why in the last scene he's basically just. indie. like, if everything about the show was exactly the same but indie was the one who had ended up w scene in the end that would have made so much more sense since a) scene had a crush on indie that he/everyone knew about and b) indie was kind of a dick despite the half-assed attempts at redemption, so both combined make it slightly less weird/out-of-nowhere that he kisses her w/o her consent (since, even though like. implied consent is not real at worst and a fuzzy subject at best but you could argue that scene would want indie to kiss her); and this isn't even taking into consideration that c) melvin is heavily queer-coded in both seasons, with his friendship with nerdcore being, dare i say, homoerotic at times, and his arc about leaving the company and changing his name mirroring nerdcore's almost perfectly (with nerdcore being a character who b*nny [at least] has all but confirmed is actually gay).

i've also been on the fence about melvin's behavior in that final scene making more sense for indie's character being an intentional decision as a way of shoe-horning in a theme about the lasting effects of abuse/cycles of abuse/the corruption of power but i also don't think the f*nes are smart enough for that. however, for the sake of defending my straw theory, i also point to the scene where indie comes to visit the acid factory after melvin told him to shut up, and we see melvin use reggie as a foot-stool, going as far as to say that it feels good to do so (which, in all honesty, i think is a bit that was entirely improvised, since the f*nes were "notorious for never saying cut" [paraphrased from a bts video], but work w me here). he's also given a seltzer mug that perfectly resembles indie's kombucha mug. in these moment melvin is directly emulating the behavior of his previous abuser, purposefully or not, literal moments after being promoted to an equal position of authority, which was totally just included as a joke, but could also be argued is meant to show that he's becoming indie; or, if we acknowledge that the f*nes have no fucking clue what they're doing and were just directing like chickens with their heads cut off, it at least shows that melvin's new position of power is leading him to understand where indie was coming from, which is supported by their conversation in the finale.

the following contains a couple brief mentions of irl sexual assault so if that's something you'd like to avoid skip to the next section!

HOWEVER, that alone isn't what i have a problem with, since i think melvin is completely justified in being a dick to indie (and also reggie enthusiastically consents to being used as an ottoman so good for him i guess). the issue comes completely in how he treats scene in the scenes where the f*nes clearly thought what they were writing was super romantic. like, the fact that the only thing he's got hung on his cubicle wall is a single picture of scene taken from the fucking opening credits (like. how hard would it have been to have. literally any other photo[s] esp since there's an abundance of cute bts pics of the cast in costume that could have been put there) and him scrolling through her twitter at work really creep me out (and at the risk of oversharing the weird, like, social media stalking angle really fucks w me bc that may or may not have been the exact fucking thing i was trying to escape in rewatching mymusic in the first place). also, having him sexually assault scene as a means of comforting her after she had just been sexually assaulted in the same way by someone else was... a choice (which is also, uh, personally familiar).

again, i recognize that demonizing melvin wasn't what the f*nes were trying to do here, and i perhaps seem hypocritical for opening liking jeff, but what makes jeff work is he's intentionally "the bad guy." having melvin do the same things as indie and jeff uncritically only proves further that the f*nes can't write for shit, and ruins his character which had, up until he quit mymusic, been unironically good. like, it's obviously not beneficial that the exact asshole things he does are personally triggering, but the character would still be a mess and i would still dislike him regardless.

i want to say though that jack delivers a surprisingly great performance despite how shoddily his character is constructed and how little experience he has as an actor. like, it's clear he was having a lot of fun on set and i would love to see him in something, like, good; i think he could pull off even like, guest television roles, which is a lot more than can be said for other youtubers.

-----

All the people I ship romantically with this character:

nerdchart should have been canon i'm sorry. i know that close, nonromantic male friendships are valuable, esp between queer men, but also gd wouldn't it have been baller to have a canon interracial mlm ship. like. c'mon. and they could have been such a good friends to lovers story! we already got to see how melvin was the only person nerdcore could really be himself around so it would have been so cool if melvin's self-advocacy arc/flowchart arc had revolved more around nerdcore with a little role-reversal! and then they kiss! like god intended!

also i ship him and indie bc i'm a grubby little gremlin man ohoho. enemies w weird sexual tension? sign me up. not even enemies to lovers i'm not saying this one should have been canon i just love the vibes. do you think melvin and indie ever explored each other's bod-- *gunshot*

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My non-romantic OTP for this character:

i wish him and scene had just been bros. god remember in season one when they were just bros that was the life.

alternatively, i wish we'd seen more bonding w him and metal, as a means of reconciling that. uh. moment from season one. along similar lines i would have loved to see him get closer w rayna in a similar way to how she bonded w nerdcore in season two. i think that could have also worked to show how she'd grown between the two seasons.

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My unpopular opinion about this character:

HIM. AND. SCENE. SHOULD. HAVE. JUST. BEEN. BROS. (though i think my general dislike of him is pretty unpopular, lmao).

when the show was coming out i don't think it's unfair to say that scenechart/scenetern 2 was the most popular ship (aside from potentially techstep whatever) but luckily we're all gay and have better taste now. unfortunately i totally fell into this camp and scenechart was even my otp for years (until it was arguably more unfortunately usurped by reddie in 2019) and i didn't even realise that it's a hot mess until, again, the summer of 2020.

when actually watching the show the choices the f*nes made in regards to how the ship actually became canon are so odd and out of place, too? okay, so, on one hand everyone just shipped scenechart bc it was the whitest hettiest ship in the show (esp in season two when idol left) aside from scindie (and we already discussed what's wrong w that). but, on the other hand, lainey and jack clearly also just got along? and i suspect that lainey probably also admired jack's work and was happy to be working with him bc we have so many shots throughout even the first season when the ship wasn't the intended endgame of lainey scene looking really fondly at jack melvin at times when it doesn't make much sense at all, esp since she's smitten w indie? this trend continues into the second season which arguably works but it still seems really out of place for him to be the one to ultimately make the first move on her since it's clear she was the one crushing this whole time and also he's gay! this bitch is gay what the fuck!!

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One thing I wish had happened with this character in canon:

at this point i'm struggling to think of anything i haven't covered yet. oops.

i've talked at length before about how he should have been a woman/lesbian, but the tl;dr is that it would have solved a lot of the queer-coding "problems" that just didn't get resolved in the show. if he'd been a lesbian then not only would the friendship w nerdcore still made sense, but scenechart would have as well (not even mentioning that both of scene's other relationships w men make a lot of sense as comphet anyway).

#long post #this took me an hour to write i literally had to get a snack in the middle of it #mymusicshow #mymusic show #question #mlentertainment #also having a character named scene when you have to write about scenes like. in a story is an absolute bitch

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gamesception · 4 years

Text

So, the Infinity Train is bad, right? Not the show, the show is great, but the train itself within the show.

Spoilers, below.

Including spoilers for the end of season 3.

Like, ok, it's trying to help people work through emotional problems and maladjusted/antisocial personality traits. Benevolent intentions, at least when humans are concerned, seem sincere enough. And sure, it worked for Tulip & Jesse. But while maybe not deliberately malicious, the train is trying to serve a moral function with an automated, amoral system that doesn’t work and is fundamentally inhumane.

Especially to the denizens it creates. However artificial they may be, seasons 2 and 3 especially make clear that they are fully realized actual people, and the train just makes them up on a whim and suborns their entire existence to the passenger's personal growth. Life for a lot of denizens is pretty horrific. Not just Lake being hunted, but kick-me toad, the wind guy, several denizens seem created to suffer an existentially nightmarish existence so that their suffering can teach some passenger a moral. Even the ones that aren't created to suffer still face perpetual risk from ghoms, passengers, & other dangers of the train, and are still trapped in a single car, or risk being forever separated from that home by the movement of cars if they ever leave it. Even if the system works to help humans, creating an entire subordinate class of fully sapient creatures and then treating them as expendable tools in furtherance of that goal is kind of horrific & bad?

And that's before you consider that therapy train isn't even very good at what it does. Like, looking at the memory tapes we've seen, the things that land people on the train aren't that bad? Like, they're bad and all, but they're still things that people can and do work through and overcome in the plain old regular ass world. None of that shit seems like stuff that would be easier to work through with the help of isolation from human contact and regular mortal peril. The success rate among characters we've met isn't especially high, and one one himself has admitted that, statistically, passengers are more likely to die than they are to get their numbers to zero and get off the train.

Which would be bad enough if the passengers were adults, but most of them are little children! Which, like, of course. Because whatever inhuman system is choosing the passengers seems to key in on self centered behavior and uncontrolled emotional outbursts as criteria for passengers, and sure those are signs of maladjustment in adults, but they're also just normal conditions of children and young teens who are still developing socially and emotionally?

In season one, it could be readily imagined that the train only picked up people who were otherwise going to die. Tulip ran off into the snowy night in Wisconsin & easily could have frozen if not picked up by the train. Amelia, standing next to the tracks before the train even appeared, seemed like she could have been contemplating suicide. And based on that reading, the risk of death is slightly more forgivable. But implied in season 2 and explicitly in season 3, the train can pick up anyone at any time, so yeah, you could easily imagine a kid lashing out from some traumatic abuse they can’t process ending up on the train to become monster food when without the train some teacher or counselor could have intervened to actually help them.

We don't get to see Simon's backstory before the train, but according to the numbers, it wasn't as bad as what happened to Grace, and wasn't all that far removed from Tulip's issues with her parents. Could any bad thing he did before entering the train have justified the traumas he was subjected to from the moment he got there? Did he really have a better chance on the train than he would have had off of it? Yeah, he made his choices, I'm not saying he "didn't deserve" his fate, but how did any of the stuff he went through constitute helping him? Not all of this can be blamed on Amelia’s usurpation of the train. Even without One One, Tulip shows that the train was more or less working as normal outside of the cars Amelia directly tampered with, and even after One One was back as conductor, the dangers of the train - from flecs to ghoms to laval moles - were still very real.

And if the train wasn’t helping Simon, that only makes all the suffering that it allowed various denizens to experience at his hands by abducting him in the first place all the more unforgivable, since there was never a point to him being on the train at all. Unless he was only there to serve Grace's growth? There’s not a lot of reason to think that, but it is a possibility since without Simon reflecting her worst actions back to her, Grace might never have grown in the way she did. Was that an accident, or intentional on the train’s part, with Simon’s fate an acceptable cost of Grace’s redemption? If it was that would only be worse, since then the train then wouldn’t just be failing to recognize that it's own creations matter as much as humans that exist apart from it, it's also actively choosing to damn some humans to save others. Either the train is dangerously incompetent, or actively malicious here.

Or consider the flecs, the ‘mirror police’ antagonists for most of season 2. I doubt many felt bad for them when they died. After all, they chose to become flecs, and chose to repeatedly try to murder Lake just for wanting her own life. Unlike Simon we don't see a string of humanizing traumas driving them towards those choices. But did they actually choose any of that?

In s2e8, Mace questions not just Lake's existence, but the entire existence of the mirror world, implying that their memories and personalities are as artificial as their bodies, constructs created by the train to teach a passenger a lesson. He drives the questions at Lake, but the same reasoning could be applied to him. Did Mace become a flec after his prime died, or are those memories fake, and he was always a flec, created by the train to be a villain in a little morality play for Tulip's & later Jesse's benefit? Did Mace ever really have the choice to be anything other than the monster he was? And even if he did, would that absolve the train of a measure of guilt in creating Mace to be that monster in the first place? Did the train intend for him to catch and kill Lake after Tulip & Jesse had returned home, cleaning up loose ends? One One seemed to jump at the chance to let Lake off the train once her trick of reflecting Jesse's number provided an adequate excuse, but before that he also seemed perfectly willing to go with Sieve's suggestion of resolving the conflict by just killing her.

Again, that’s not to say the flecs didn’t deserve their fates, or that it was wrong of Lake to kill them. Mace in particular questioned the entire purpose and reality of the mirror world, which means he had the self awareness and philosophical insight needed to question and reject the role the train had created him for, and even while dying he instead chooses to use that insight as just another way to vindictively deny Lake’s person-hood. He chooses to be every bit the monster he was created to be, and Sieve makes the same choice even seeing the fate that it led Mace to. They didn’t “deserve better”, but them choosing to embrace their predetermined villainous roles doesn’t reduce the train’s accountability for creating them to fill those roles in the first place.

So yeah, Trauma Train is a fantastic show - imo s2 is still the best, but s1 and s3 are both very solid. But within that show the train itself is a dangerously negligent therapist and a willfully unjust deity, and if Infinity Train does get future seasons I hope that aspect gets further explored and deconstructed. And I think it will be. Like, I don’t think any of this analysis is an unintended edgy dark reading for the heck of it. Season one could have left you with a neutral or positive impression of the train, but the fundamental systemic injustice of the train is, like, the explicit text of season 2, and while Lake managed to trick her way free, the underlying system she fought to free herself from is still in place in season 3.

That said, I kind of hope one way or the other that the show is done with grizzly on-screen deaths. There's a lot of good lessons for kids in the show, important stuff about handling life changes, dealing with grief, the importance of self identity & self determination. And much like the train is a bad therapist for trying to traumatize its victims into self improvement, the show becomes a bad vehicle for the lessons it's trying to teach if the scenes of shocking violence are what stick most firmly in younger viewers memories.

#infinity train #spoilers #infinity train spoilers #call out post #for a fictional mass transit system

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rpmemesbyarat · 3 years

Conversation

RP Meme from "Chapter Two: Nine Tribes" in the Bastet breedbook from "Werewolf: The Apocalypse" Part One of Two

You look awful. What happened?

Someone turned my home inside out.

You’re such a pretty kitten, too. I don’t see kittens like you every day. I wonder why.

You don’t see kittens like me every day. When I get done with you, you won’t see anything... anyday.

Maybe it went into the air and never came down. Maybe it went into the ground and never came back up. Maybe someday it’ll show up.

Maybe someday they’ll be back. Personally, I doubt it.

What can be said about a race of individuals?

Does it puzzle you that our natures should be twofold, threefold, yet one?

Do you wonder why the gods, who have decreed a place for each thing, have offered us so many places in one?

I tell you a truth. It is but one of many, but it will serve.

The people kept to themselves, and they respected the land.

Hunters crept into the forests to skin the cats for their beautiful coats, and cats raced through the villages, bearing off children to eat in the night.

Days and nights rang with screams.

When the monsoons came, they carried rivers of blood to the seas.

She was spirited and strong, yet disobedient.

Our lands are cursed!

The serpents’ name is judgment, and they answer the dark calling inside each mortal secret.

Each mortal carries snake seeds inside.

You can do nothing.

I cannot leave my family this way!

It is not your place to change them, or to cleanse their sins.

I do not care about my place!

What can I do? This cannot continue!

If you would make peace, lay with them.

Take wild cats as mates?

Have you decided?

I am wisdom

I am anger

I have the wisdom to call the gods, the anger to fight, and the love to give myself for my people.

The monsoon howled and rain poured down.

We seek out the serpent of corruption and crush its head between our jaws.

She’s slow to rage, but when she does, nothing but total destruction will satisfy her.

They are wiser than their fury suggests.

Listen to them in good spirits and watch the visions they bring.

They bargained their souls away long ago, and cannot be trusted.

It’s said their kind is dead, but I am not certain.

Anything is possible.

It weakens them.

I cannot trust anyone so landless.

They believe they walk alone upon the earth, but they are wrong.

Wise liars and grand tricksters.

Long ago, I’ve heard, they were noble. Not now.

I’ve never spoken to one long enough to learn much, but I’ve heard they keep the sacred places safe.

That is enough to earn my respect.

We are the daughters and sons of the moon.

To anger the jaguar is to turn the jungle against you.

Woe to such a man and his family, for they will slowly starve.

When the whites came, they brought their evil with them.

Vile spirits of disease and mania plagued the humans.

The world went dark.

Their anger was too great.

Many wanted revenge.

Blood must be paid with blood.

But it is just a reflection, nothing more.

What they don’t like, they attack, and they don’t like much.

This peace ended as human settlements and firms began cutting through the rain forests.

Take your demon filth and get out of my home.

Stay, and die.

You take life far too lightly, my friends.

I watch you from far away, but my eyes are too filled with tears for me to dance.

They weren’t strong enough to survive. I’ll drink to their honor, but their dust is not my problem.

Honored brothers, if you need me, I will come.

Where were you when we needed you?

Wandering a trail? How nice.

You’re no longer welcome, brother.

We all do what we must to survive.

If they find happiness in solitude, it is a pleasure I can understand.

Make no mistake; We are older than the pyramids. Older than the Pharaohs.

We were the first. All others are usurpers.

There were gods in those days. If they are gone, I will not weep. We have more freedom without their strictures, anyway.

When need be, we hunted them like rats, but overcome by curiosity, we soon allowed ourselves to become their friends.

Then too proud for our liking. They would have to be punished. And they were.

Great plagues fell upon them.

I will never say we ruled. Why should we rule?

Merely say that we received our due; food, shelter and secrets. Many secrets.

I must say we were impressed.

We defended them in the night.

Slain, or worse yet, turned into blooddrinking ghouls.

This was not, I should add, the worst outcome of the war.

I tell you this secret now, so you will understand our path; We committed sacrilege against ourselves.

You and I suffer today a curse our ancestors earned millennia ago.

There are some shadows that hide secrets too evil for consumption.

Black as midnight, yes?

This is the cost of those endless nights of spying.

We learned secrets that should have been left alone. Worse, we still hunger for them, even now.

Our race is all but vanished, but still we prevail.

One day, we will return to power.

Aside from these gruesome relics, the breed has been extinct for 2000 years.

These ghoulish beasts, now swollen to the size of panthers, live blind in filthy pens.

Occasionally, one might even be allowed to mate with it.

This insult has not gone unrewarded.

A bitter if one-sided war has crept quietly along for nearly 2000 years.

The vampires may receive an unpleasant surprise in the coming decades.

Surprisingly, they have never fled their homeland despite their setbacks and ancient enemies.

Perhaps it’s pride that keeps them rooted to Egyptian soil, or maybe it’s something more.

Some outsiders claim there��s a mystical connection between the tribe and their motherland.

Weird magical rites, including experiments with vampire blood and enchanted human “hosts,” have bred feline offspring from human mothers.

Horrifying tales of women giving birth to cats in Cairo delivery rooms attest that such experiments are occasionally. . . successful.

Only time will tell.

Better death than the serpent’s kiss.

If there’s a viper in your soul, purge it.

The road we walk is treacherous enough alone.

Noble, I’ll confess, but hopelessly rural. They favor their wild sides too much to be as enlightened as they would believe.

Savage, bloodthirsty monsters. How I would love to have one or two around for errands!

It’s said that their kind is extinct, but being “extinct” myself, I find that difficult to believe.

I’ve heard a great deal about them, but they keep to their land and I to mine.

Too obtuse for my tastes.

If their chattering held wisdom, I would gladly listen.

Obnoxious louts who deserve to be shaved. Some day soon, they will be. I’d be pleased to do the honors. Perhaps I shall.

They make lovely pets if you convince them they’re free.

Kid, we don’t just collect secrets, we are secrets.

There’s a lot of folks who’d put us in chains — real ones and magic ones — if they knew we were still breathing, so listen close while I tell you a fairy tale.

It’s important, kid, so shut up till I finish.

A long time ago, the world was a dream. No, I’m not being cute — it was. All our kind were dreamed into existence.

Have you ever seen a dream walking? Well, take a look in a mirror, kid.

Those cold folks needed some company.

Well, those cold hearts turned on us soon enough.

We can be a nasty folk when we set our minds to it, and those who danced with us set themselves apart.

Our secrets got out.

I doubt they did it under their own power.

But we did survive.

There was a price. There always is.

We stay underground. Way underground.

You remember what I said about our ties to passion?

So keep your head down, kid, and never say what you are.

As usual, the legends lie

Messages are hidden in lyrics and chord structures.

Come in with laughter, leave in tears and always keep ‘em guessing

The locals still lock their doors on that night, and no one dares to go a-spying.

She may return to her old ways eventually, but cannot settle into any role for long.

Elusive as they are, they love digging up dirt about others.

Such clothes allow them to be their flamboyant selves and get away with it.

Art is the expression of a dream. And dreams, my friend, are what we are at heart.

Oh, yeah, a lot of help they were when we were stuck.

Shut up, hothead.

At least you’ve still got your own name.

Oh, yes it is fun to play in the dark, but you have to come up for air eventually.

Brutal and mean.

I respect their courage, but lighten up, guys!

Wise. Very wise. When one speaks, listen up.

Damn thing outran my car.

Must be nice.

#rp meme #rp memes #rp starters #roleplay memes #roleplay starters #roleplay meme #werecats #werewolf the apocalypse #bastet #world of darkness #owod

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sepublic · 3 years

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Disparity between the Knights of Ren and Kylo

But something about the Knights of Ren, in contrast to their leader, is that they seem so much more… scrappy? Dirty, unorganized, but also used and worn-out, and thus genuine? Like they’ve really put themselves out there into the harsh work with rolled-up, tattered sleeves, and you get this sense of them actually being in the fray and on the frontlines.

You’ve of course got their dirt-covered boots and whatnot, but also you have people like Vicrul or Cardo, who use the hides of animals as part of their attire… Ap’lek’s cloak is oiled to shed aside water, he’s clearly someone who works within the elements to take advantage of them as part of his stealth, they’re his dirty unglamorous home. Clearly the Knights of Ren do a lot of work putting together scrap metal, like you see with Ap’lek’s mask, Kuruk having those pieces bent around his helmet to help focus his vision, Cardo’s mask is just a repurposed furnace plate! Ushar’s mask has a straight-up dent in it that he’s never bothered to fix, even when he has access to Albrekh; Likely as a twisted memento of honor and tribute to the victim who inflicted the damage. Trudgen straight-up has part of a Death Trooper’s helmet incorporated into his own mask as well!

Then you’ve got the Night Buzzard, which is dirty and grimy, and has received constant modifications, likely by Kuruk, that cause it to spew noxious gas. Vicrul’s pistol has also been pushed to its limits with alterations, and Cardo is obsessed with modifying and enhancing weapons, keeping them up to date and ready for the next battle; The Knights of Ren have weapons that are a more cold, dull steel and gray, not polished and refined. Their armor and outfits feel much more scratched-out and faded, used and worn in. You get the sense almost that they’re kind of like scavengers themselves, similar to Rey; Making do with what they find, not too focused on aesthetical neatness nor tidy appearance, just getting the point across, salvaging trophies from victories.

And, it fits with their philosophy, the Ren- Which revolves around basically just living in the moment, unapologetically taking and consuming and resorting to nature and instinct… Letting the ‘Shadow’ guide and feed them, like they’re always on the fringe of society, gathering and appreciating what they can and making use of it, having to make the most of their tools, constantly altering and patching themselves up. They don’t have the access to the best resources, not fancy luxuries or anything like that; It’s almost rather working-class, I’d say! It of course matches with their origins as essentially criminals and a cult-ish biker gang, a ragtag group of mercenaries.

Even their original, nameless leader kind of fits this more down-to-earth, cobbled-together aesthetic, with a gray mask that he’s customized with a red symbol, amidst the scratches; Not wearing much save for a tattered cloak and glove, and his pants and boots, and that’s about it! Nothing particularly polished nor clean. He’s dirty, roughed-up, and covered in scars, he has not gone unscathed and he doesn’t need to protect himself from the elements, he wears his damage and past on his (metaphorical) sleeve and possibly even has a cybernetic hand, to go with the Vader parallel that Charles Soule intended!

All of this of course contrasts with Kylo Ren, who… His mask is clearly hi-tech, up-to-date, with a full-on vocoder and mechanical function that causes it to open up and close, possibly somewhat vacuum-sealed as well. The metal is polished and shiny, the mask a smooth, likely painted, matte black. His clothes are tidy and almost prince-like, made of what seems to be more comfortable and fancier cloth and fabrics, a nice deep black that’s clearly taken care of, shiny boots, the works. While the Knights of Ren make do with just their Night Buzzard and weapons they scrounge for, constantly patching up and honing them between battles to keep them almost good-as-new, Kylo Ren has his clean and sleek, modern ships supplied directly from the First Order; He’s got his command shuttle, the TIE Silencer, and at least two TIE Whisper’s.

His vehicles have red, vibrant and glowing lights and paintjobs, and are likely the sleek pinnacle of First Order engineering, with Kuat and rich backers from Canto Bight to contribute to development. Kyle Ron probably has his entire team of engineers to prepare and take care of his ship before him, even before becoming Supreme Leader- Especially when he tells a pair of officers to prepare his TIE Silencer for him, even before he usurps Snoke. He was clearly the golden child throughout his life in a sense, born into a privileged, luxurious family with a lot of power and fame; And then serving Snoke, who himself had all of the inexplicably vast resources of the First Order behind him, invested everything into Kylo Ren’s training and upkeep… Kept him well-fed and taken care of (at least physically).

Yeah, Kylo has trained vigorously, and his own lightsaber is a patchwork job, but that was built back when he was ‘just’ leader of the Knights of Ren, newly anointed, and before he’d started serving in the First Order; And as a major political influence, with a LOT of authority and power behind him, serving as a triumvirate alongside Hux and Phasma, right beneath Snoke himself! You get the sense that he always had something to fall back to, a comfortable safety net- That when all was said and done, he had a retinue of medical droids to patch him up, a team to keep his laundry nice and clean and ‘presentable’. That he always had his parents who were welcoming of him, trying to be patient, always offering him the opportunity to go back home; He had SO much, and yet he really threw it all away for some fantasy, didn’t he?

Kylo Ren really comes across as like… A privileged rich kid, a pampered brat who doesn’t really know what it’s like to work out in the fringes, to have to constantly fight and kill just to survive, to be fed the next day. To not have the luxury of mindlessly destroying the hard work and machinery, the craft of others he’s taken for granted, every time he has a temper tantrum- Leaving people to clean up the mess and replace it good as new. The Knights of Ren couldn’t be so frivolous with THEIR resources, they had to make everything count, reuse and recycle, scavenge from scrap metal, tidy things up at least a little; But they didn’t have the luxury to make themselves sleek and polished, nor access to the most up-to-date technology of an entire military junta.

They had to get their hands dirty and personal, all of the time, they didn’t have the pride and privilege to turn down jobs; They took whatever mercenary work was offered to stay fed and clothed. And yet they remained just as vigilant and dedicated to the Ren as ever, never wavering as far as we can tell; Even when their original leader was slain, they didn’t throw a fit, but just made do with the situation, accepted that this was all they had left, and had Kylo as their new master.

While Kylo was no doubt living the high-life at the very top of the First Order pyramid, we rarely see the Knights of Ren, who don’t have Snoke’s personal precious attention and protection. They’re likely out there doing the dark, unknown and unglamorous dirty work, quietly coming back to restock and refuel, no ceremonies nor worship from Stormtroopers, most of whom seem to regard them in disgust as ‘Ghouls’. Unlike Kylo, they fully chose and accepted and embraced their roles, they provided their ‘good’ deaths and earned their spots within the group, not fighting it, not constantly lamenting and whining about how they deserved better, because anything is good.

Even when Kylo Ren became Supreme Leader, it seems that for whatever reason, the Knights of Ren didn’t embrace the new resources at their disposal- Did Kylo not bother to take care of them, or were they just so used to working as scrappy little mercenaries, that the high-end luxuries of the First Order somewhat bothered them? That they preferred to keep doing things as they did, that this organized, political and polished structure wasn’t for them. Hux regards them as distasteful for it, but while he and Kylo have entire armies and servants at their beck and call and disposal, the Knights of Ren have only themselves and each other to carry out the missions assigned to them, and they do their tasks silently, dutifully, and without complaint.

To contrast, Kylo Ren has a much cleaner, brighter aesthetic, flashy and red like his lightsaber, and later the Sarrassian iron that puts together the fragments of his helmet. He’s a leader, a political figure, who intentionally draws attention to himself as the heir to Vader, he thinks he’s entitled to Anakin’s lightsaber, and can afford to draw attention to himself, he wants it. But the Knights of Ren, they have to be practical and dark, hiding to survive, Ap’lek especially, although of course some manner of exception is made with Ushar and Cardo. It’s not like they’re just hunters, but also prey as well, like the Mandalorian coverts… Their dirtied, roughened-up appearance, more battered and humble like what you would see with the Millenium Falcon, paints the Knights of Ren as more underdogs than their leader.

In essence, you get this sense of privileged disconnect between the Knights of Ren and Kylo; That he’s this bourgeoisie rich kid, whose parents bought him everything, that he never REALLY had to work for things, there was no genuine struggle nor danger for him. Work and training may as well have been a hobby for him, he can afford to throw things away, while for the Knights of Ren it very much is a matter of survival, life or death. And with how Kylo wants to join them for some reason after leaving the Jedi Order, even though he only had ONE encounter where they tried to kill him, Luke, and Lor San Tekka; And all their previous leader did was just leave an open invitation…

And again, you get the idea that Kylo Ren has this idealized, glamorous, almost fetishizing and romanticized view of what it’s like to be a Knight of Ren, that it’s some cool club to join- And not a genuine, forged-in-fire, rigorous existence. That it’s tough and painful and very much a deliberate choice, not something done lightly and for fun, which he finds out when he tries to join them for ‘comradery’ I suppose, only to be oh-so shocked at seeing them kill people, as if he hadn’t always known this. Kylo Ren didn’t really want to be a Knight of Ren, just his cool idea and fun of what it’d be like, how he doesn’t REALLY want the Empire back, just the idealized version of the past. He’s a pampered brat playing pretend, so psyched up for the dream of the job, but when he actually has to do the hard work and unglamorous parts, he caves and hesitates, while the actual Knights of Ren roll their eyes, because of course this little kid does. He has no idea what he’s getting himself into, he’s so dumb and naïve and reckless.

It’s telling that the Knights of Ren have no issues working with Albrekh, an alien, especially because they know they can’t afford to be picky with their allies and friends, beggars can’t be choosers; While Kylo “My parents didn’t love me enough” Ron is willing to kill an officer for asking a reasonable question, and throws aside all of the people in his life that he takes for granted. Similarly, the only person resembling an alien that we see Kylo Ren actually work with is Snoke, whom he hated and eventually killed, and even Snoke was at least part-human, so given his worship of the Empire, and Kylo Ren likely looks down on non-humans.

Not to mention, with how Kylo sometimes refers to Rey as ‘the scavenger’, and you get this sense of like… disdain from him towards her more humble, downright impoverished, background and conditions of her home life, and the way she had to keep herself fed. And you can’t help but wonder if the Knights of Ren picked up on this, that part of the reason they never enjoyed the First Order’s resources was because they knew that they didn’t belong in this neat and tidy, posh hierarchy of political society and advanced tech; That they were regarded as savage monsters and ghouls by the First Order, dirty and unkempt. Their own leader didn’t really know or understand them, he only had leadership by virtue of power and affinity to the Dark Side, but not much else; And he was constantly fighting the Dark Side, always in the hand of Snoke, never really leading the Knights of Ren alongside them as equals and comrades like their past leader.

He probably didn’t care for, nor appreciate them- Kylo probably even looked down on them, even! Not fully and openly, but there was likely this implicit disdain and disgust… Or at the very least, he made an ‘exception’ to them, but with how he regarded scavengers and lower-class people like them… The Knights of Ren could only wonder just how conditional his tolerance was. He praised and elevated them, borderline glorified and romanticized; But he could never truly be one of them, he never knew what it was like, he had no idea, he could only guess and play pretend, and never admit that truth. There was a growing disconnect, likely a dissatisfaction between the Knights of Ren towards Kylo, and it just worsened with his agendas with Rey, forcing them to do the work of capturing her by themselves, forgetting the Knights in his own confrontations, etc.

Kylo didn’t really feel like one of them, like a part of them- He saw himself as elevated and separate, more like lapdogs and attacks dogs, tools to point in a direction, not true brothers-in-arms on the same level, regardless of leadership role. And this ignorance, this subtle lack of regard and attention, quickly abandoning the Knights of Ren to focus on his drama with his parents, Luke, Snoke, and Rey… It must’ve been frustrating and alienating for the Knights of Ren.

The closest Kylo ever got was when he repaired his shattered helmet using Albrekh himself, with the dented and scratched-up look more akin to them, uniting the aesthetic more… But again, there was always that fancy, graceful training from Luke and Snoke, and his special little lightsaber. Then the attention from Palpatine… And when he had to go to Exegol, when he confronted Rey, Kylo never did so with the Knights of Ren, because he never truly trusted nor felt like they had his back, he never truly saw himself as one of them, and didn’t think it necessary to bring them alone, to include them all.

They weren’t special, chosen ones with the cool bloodlines and parentage that gave them special innate talent and Force powers, they were more like Voe if anything else. The Knights of Ren had force-sensitivity, but it was stunted and much weaker than Kyle’s natural, unearned talent and gifts; Everything they got, they had to fight and train and work for, self-taught and without the guidance of some wiser leader, because I doubt Kylo trained his own Knights either. Their fighting style is more brutal and utilitarian, with the use of a wide variety of tools and actual blasters- The Knights of Ren had to make a name for themselves, carve out their own reputation, because they started from nothing, and their original leader best exemplifies this with his lack of name, the closest being the title of Ren that he shares with everyone else anyway.

The Knights of Ren didn’t have a special destiny, nor a bond as part of some sacred, prophesized dyad- If anything, they were more like Rey, before THAT reveal… Just lowly nobodies who had to make a name for themselves, stumbled across their own version of found family in a sense- Did what they needed to survive, had to go through the grueling agony of existence on their own. They actively looked for new members to add into their group, other lowly and despised criminals and others of society, as could’ve been the case with Karrst. There was no special place for them within the story, and yet they were still relegated to doing nameless, thankless jobs and tasks, not even acknowledged individually, and forgotten and abandoned by even their own leader, for some stranger he’d just met.

When he turned to the Light Side, did their time together mean nothing for Ben to leave them- Of course it did, because there wasn’t REALLY anything there, and he never tried, or at least never could’ve understood, and never realized this from the position he was in. He tried to force his way in and it just created this uncomfortable, begrudging toleration by the Knights of Ren, until finally their resentment boiled up and bubbled over and burst; And they took their sweet time, vengefully confronting their former leader and beating him up slowly, because they wanted this to hurt. They wanted him to know what it was like to be beaten down with no hope, with no glimpse of light, nobody to pick him up and comfort him, no luxury nor resources or sacred destiny; To have only darkness and shadow to hide and thrive in, to embrace and become grateful towards… As they scrounged up and kept fighting, determined, not entitled by any parentage or destiny, but because they simply chose to keep biting and survive.

Nobody seemed to care nor remember the Knights of Ren, they were just disposable tools for everyone, except their original leader, who really did seem to be on amicable relationship with them; Addressing them by name, in a casual manner that alluded to past comradery and shared knowledge, bonding… Someone they felt safe actually speaking up and talking to, asking questions instead of silently waiting for orders and accepting things as they were. There was no special Force powers, for they did not expect anything from the Shadow, and when they did receive, they made sure to venerate it in return, for of course this was owed back, they had to pay back the force that guided and fed them.

They had a gratitude, and as their Ren codified, the Knights learned to disregard societal norms and obligations, and attitudes, and just live, doing what they needed to survive. No apologies, no glorifications, they just were, that’s all they wanted and needed. Obviously this independent, not-caring-what-anyone-thinks attitude was no doubt ‘cool’ to a young Kylo Ren, which was why he wanted to join them, while misunderstanding so badly how the Knights of Ren even got to that point in the first place, and what came with this. Kylo kept being concerned about how others perceived and looked at him, because he was a sad, pathetic, insecure little child; While for the Knights of Ren, it just didn’t matter.

They could be hated, or beloved- It wasn’t important at all how others regarded them, because they didn’t heed how outsiders felt, they didn’t apologize nor account for their existence, didn’t try to justify anything. It was Us VS Them, they found solace in just each other, and recognized and prepared themselves for an entire world against them, anyone else as fair game and a potential enemy. Their prior leader rightfully regarded Kylo with suspicion, kept a cautious distance- So nothing was lost when they confronted Kylo on Exegol to kill him, no tears shed nor regrets made whatsoever, besides having not done this sooner.

But of course, special Ben Solo gets his redemption or whatever, he gets his spotlight and glory as he saves the day, or at least sort of tries to contribute. He is glorified by the narrative and likely in-universe, venerated for his ‘noble’ turn and sacrifice, especially by the real-life fandom; But the Knights of Ren, nobody cares for them. And it doesn’t matter- They’re used to it, they’ve learned to accept and adapt, this is just the normal status quo for them. They don’t need veneration nor hatred, they’re just here to get through the day and only focus on what matters, themselves and each other.

…In that sense, with all of this meta about the Knights of Ren being more like ‘nobodies’, poor and scavenging, having to work for things; And Rey, the contradictions of her character be damned, feels like she’d be a more welcome fit as a new leader than Kylo. Maybe there could be an AU where she joins them, and the Knights of Ren bond with this new kid, this little sibling, who’s a dirty feral gremlin like them who likes to scavenge and experiment, modify, messily and shoddily cobble stuff together.

I do have to wonder if Rey calling herself a nobody, initially intended at one point to have no special place nor destiny in the narrative, besides the one she made for herself with her found family- If that was meant to be a parallel to the Knights of Ren and their former leader, who also calls himself a nobody, and goes by no distinctive name himself. I can only imagine, but I bet that a Dark Side Rey would be a much more attentive, down-to-earth, and ultimately preferable leader to the Knights of Ren, as someone who actually bonds with and understands them, and learns to value them; To the point where if she DID make a turn to the Light, she’d probably invite them to come with her out of concern, and the Knights of Ren would be touched enough to even consider, or at least spare, Rey…

At the very least, I don’t think Rey would immediately throw them aside like the garbage they always were, because she was good now and too enlightened and heroic to be level with these evil monsters; She knew someone who was a masked ‘monster’ himself, Finn, and she fell in love and found acceptance with him, and vice-versa. Rey, for better or worse, has the patience to reach out and give others the benefit of the doubt, to hope for them, to not hypocritically condemn, for she knows her own mistakes and weaknesses as well… So I think the Knights of Ren in this AU would be much more likely to be touched- And that even if they were to lash against a reformed Rey, it’d come from a genuine sense of hurt and betrayal, grief and loss; And not just a relieved desire to get rid of this pesky brat that’s been bugging them for the past several years.

#star wars #knights of ren #vicrul #trudgen #ushar #star wars kuruk #cardo #ap'lek #albrekh #kylo ren #meta

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pretendwiseguysofficial · 3 years

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MBTI: Star Wars

Written by Ryan (archive post from January 30, 2019)

It’s the gift that just keeps giving! And it will, forever, and ever, and…….ever, because of Disney. I can see both good and bad in that. Anyway, here’s another daunting list of characters, this time from Star Wars. Major characters have gotten their own articles. Rey: ISFP (https://goo.gl/p5TKP4) Finn: ENFP (https://goo.gl/bXp2fU) Kylo Ren: ESFP (https://goo.gl/Fh2cSa) Poe Dameron: ESFP (https://goo.gl/rFc6ob)

Luke Skywalker: INFP (separate thread pending) Han Solo: ISTP (separate thread pending) Leia Organa: ESTJ (separate thread pending) Lando Calrissian: ESTP (separate thread pending) Obi Wan Kenobi: ENFJ (separate thread pending) Yoda: INFJ (separate thread pending) Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker: ISTJ (separate thread pending) Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious: ENTJ (https://bit.ly/2B8rzk4) Darth Maul: ISTP (separate thread pending) Qui-Gon Jinn: ENFP (separate thread pending)

Ahsoka Tano: ENFP (separate thread pending)

More Below

PREQUELS

Padme Amidala: ESFJ Padme is the most prominent ESFJ in the saga (aside from C3PO), and she’s portrayed by Natalie Portman with……..wooden acting. How ironic. The basic white girl of the saga is reduced to a monotone delivery in the first film. Who knew the Queen had to act like such a dingus so that her body double would have an easier time imitating her? If you think about it, it’s pretty genius. That being said, Fe is the name of the game here for Padme, as she’s primarily concerned with the needs and wants of those around her, and often champions for social causes due to her role as a senator later on in the films. The Clone Wars series amplifies her primary Fe and secondary Si, as she fights to restore the Republic to its glory days.

Count Dooku: INFJ No one got tricked harder by Palpatine’s schemes than Dooku did. Darth Tyranus himself wanted nothing more than for the Separatists to restore a rightful order to the galaxy (in his eyes), free from the corruption of the Jedi and the Republic. Even as he was in on most of Palpatine’s grand plans from the start, he was unaware of his master’s true deception towards him until his final seconds.

It’s only fitting that the gentlemanly villain of the saga, and even more fitting that he wanted Obi-Wan as his apprentice (another xNFJ), to usurp Palpatine. Count Dooku is basically the Ra’s Al Ghul of Star Wars.

Jar-Jar Binks: ESFP My favorite character! Just kidding. But really, Jar-Jar ain’t all that bad; he’s just an annoying ESFP. Jar-Jar lives primarily in the moment as a comic relief goober that bares little-to-no importance to the plot, except for the crowning moment where he facilitates the senate to give Chancellor Palpatine emergency powers. Oh, now you’ve got a reason to hate him.

Mace Windu: ENTJ “George……I want a purple lightsaber. Pleeaaaase?”

Unfortunately, Samuel L. Jackson himself never got to utter his catchphrase as he portrayed a more stoic ENTJ this time around. Mace Windu, known in the Legends continuity for his infamous Shatterpoint technique (very Te-based), gifts a strategic mindset to the Jedi council. He’ll often say things for how they are in a Te-based manner (but with a little more tact), such as when he states that Anakin is too old to be trained when Qui-Gon presents him to the council. And then he’ll sometimes give us some one liners, such as “this party’s over.” But the signifier of Te-Ni? When he proposes to execute Palpatine because he is too dangerous.

Jango Fett: ISTP Jango Fett? Neevah houd uf ‘im. But what about Boba? Rest aside, Jango Fett just cares about the fat stacks he gets from being a clone template so he can be the best dad in the galaxy there is, and he don’t care who pays him. Sounds pretty ISTP to me.

General Grievous: ESTJ Hello there! Our favorite coughing cyborg general turns out to be an ESTJ. Through primary Te, he barks out orders to his subordinates, often impatiently. It’s like he knows you knew how to do it but screwed up, which is a superpower that ESTJs have and will use to pounce on you and your failures.

Grievous himself is a natural boaster, like any ESTJ. Your GIFs will make a fine addition to his collection!

ORIGINAL TRILOGY

Tarkin: ESTJ Roll your R’s! Heighten your received pronunciation! Peter Cushing is here to add some Britishness to your Star Wars! Tarkin stands as one of the most brilliant tactical minds the Empire has known (rivaled only by Grand Admiral Thrawn). But he is also one of the governors/administrators of the Empire, and it is because of this reason that he has become known for his Te, dishing out orders with an elegant terror. ESTJ it is, folks.

Boba Fett: ISTP Fact: Boba Fett survives the Sarlacc Pit in both continuities. A surprise, to be sure, but a welcome one. Everyone’s favorite character, Boba Fett, is just like his father (an ISTP); his allegiances do not matter as long as his employers pay him fat stacks. Unless he has to work with Han Solo. Archenemies do not get along that well. The everchanging neutrality of the ISTP is displayed most importantly in the Legends continuity, in one story where Fett himself turned on Vader and dueled with a lightsaber (successfully), when it wasn’t in his own interests to side with Vader.

R2D2: ENTP I’m always under the theory that if we could hear R2D2 speak, he’d be swearing ¼ of the time. This wisecracking little astromech droid always comes up with creative solutions when in a bind, all the while wising off to C3PO in the process. Sounds like Ne to me, right? But more importantly, the moral of the story for most ENTPs to learn is a little common sense and to sit back and think things through a little more. Sure they have excellent reasoning abilities on the spot, but would R2 have ended up in a Jawa sandcrawler if he hadn’t smarted off to Threepio in the desert and abandoned him? He may have had a “mission,” but he could have let Threepio in on it.

C3PO: ESFJ Like a true ESFJ, goldenrod here never learns to shut his mouth. The ESFJ will blab on and on about small talk and things no one cares about, which is often why C3PO gets interrupted all of the time when he explains what he does or where he has been. Much to his annoyance, too. Because he’s a protocol droid, his Fe is slanted to please others, and this is why we have the perfect ESFJ in this galaxy far, far away.

Chewbacca: ISFJ Can Chewbacca really be typed? I think so! Just because we don’t hear him speaking anything, doesn’t mean he can’t be! Solo: A Star Wars Story did a really good job of fleshing out Chewie’s character, giving him motives and ambitions. Such as, his desire to free his people in the spice mines of Kessel. That moment signaled one of the few times that Chewie would act impulsively, to me, and it reeked of ISFJ.

Jabba the Hutt: ESTP Big shot gangster, you say? That’s pretty clear-cut, ESTP. And we see this in Return of the Jedi; Jabba just sits around on his butt indulging in sensual pleasures, changing his mind in deals quite often. He’s a reasonable man, since he uses Ti. In A New Hope, we see the way he deals with Han Solo, and he restrains his displeasure in the hopes of giving him another chance to pay him back. ESTPs, with their tertiary Fe, can often do this, although their patience will ultimately wear thin in the long run.

Wedge Antilles: ISTJ Wedge is your basic everyman, like any ISTJ there is. Does he have much of a personality to him? Not really, but from what I’ve seen of him, he reeks of ISTJ.

THE CLONE WARS

Asajj Ventress: ISFP Ventress has been burned in life before, so it’s easy to assume that she could be an ISTP based upon her cold, sarcastic exterior. However, upon further examination, ISFP seems to fit far better. Ventress lives wholly for the moment, so it would be easy to think maybe she could be an Se-user. However, her biting comebacks that she displays are a very common trait from many other fictional ISFPs, who, when unhealthy, can show a lack of morality when it comes to their enemies and this is displayed in their inferior Te which manifests as either a childish outburst or a calm and collected burn. Her primary Fi is displayed with her sense of purpose with the Nightsisters, fueled by revenge against Dooku. In the New Canon novel Dark Disciple, we see the cold exterior melt a little bit in Ventress’ newfound romance with Quinlan Vos, and we finally see her inch toward becoming a healthier ISFP.

Captain Rex: ISTJ Rex is a simple man, and our main conduit upon which to view the clone troopers who chose not to obey Order 66, all due to a little thing called tertiary Fi. ISTJs are like big cuddly goobers sometimes, and Rex is quite the example sometimes, especially in his appearances in Rebels.

Mother Talzin: INFJ All Talzin wanted was her revenge on Palpatine for double-crossing her and taking her son Darth Maul, ultimately for the Nightsisters to prosper. She wanted power in the galaxy, but even Palpatine saw through her lunacy and said nah. Sometimes, because of their imaginations getting the best of them through Ni-Fe-Ti, the INFJ can seem a little bit delusional. And Mother Talzin seems pretty INFJ to me.

Hondo Ohnaka: ESTP Hondo Ohnaka loves to party, and he loves making material gains out of any situation possible; this only proves that he is ESTP. He’ll ally with you, and then betray you if the reward is greater, and this is fueled by Se as he sees infinite possibilities in the present moment. With secondary Ti, he’ll always choose the right words for the right purposes to weasel his way out of situations, and with tertiary Fe, he’ll also treat even his enemies in a cordial manner!

Cad Bane: ISTP The most grizzled and seasoned bounty hunter there ever was between Jango and Boba Fett’s dominance, Cad Bane means business and business means credits. And if you eff it up, he’ll get mad, because he only cares about himself and his payday, which is a common stereotype of many ISTP bounty hunters in fiction. The severely underdeveloped inferior Fe that he has explains his cold personality toward not only his enemies, but his fellow bounty hunters. And with his quick strategical mind informed through primary Ti, which also fuels his own sardonic wit, Cad Bane is an easy ISTP.

Savage Opress: ISTP There isn’t a whole lot of character development for Savage Opress, but he makes a terrible user of Fe (with the exception of his brother Maul), which is the inferior function of ISTPs. So I’m just going with ISTP here for Savage.

SEQUELS

Captain Phasma: ISTJ Phasma, portrayed by the lovely Gwendolyn Christie, has always managed to keep this air of coolness to her character despite being punked by Finn twice and surviving the explosion of a planet (and possibly a spaceship; we’ll find out in episode IX). Phasma herself is an ISTJ in the best possible way, and we find this out about her character in her work ethic which is displayed in the novels and comics of the new Disney canon. The wild extents of her tertiary Fi is explored more vividly in these new-canon works.

General Hux: ESTJ General Hux hates Kylo Ren (secretly) for his whining, immaturity, and overall terrible leadership skills, and the fact that Snoke clearly favors Ren compared to himself when it comes to leadership. What can we learn from such an ESTJ character? Well, we can learn that unhealthy ESTJs are prone to loud, angry outbursts and shouting matches when their patience wears thin (that which they run low on almost daily). The unhealthy ESTJ is also known for sucking up to their superiors while they ironically continue on to treat their subordinates terribly, such as the case when Hux sucks up to Snoke, or Kylo Ren when he usurps leadership. It is only because of Snoke’s protection that Hux was allowed to say whatever he wanted to Ren, and now that Snoke is gone, well……that’s an interesting dynamic to see in Episode IX to come.

Rose Tico: ISFJ Booooo! An ordinary type for an ordinarily character in Rose Tico.

Snoke: ENTJ We still know literally nothing about him, and quite honestly, I’m fine with that for the next few years. In The Force Awakens, he seemed quite the INTJ in his tiny amount of screentime. However though, he shows a much more charismatic side more indicative of a loony ENTJ. Those gold bathrobes……utter tertiary Se. And what differentiates Snoke from Palpatine, is a slightly more charismatic side that manifests itself in his speech, almost like he can’t get enough of his own voice (a trait also manifested by unhealthy ENTPs, but in a slightly different way), signifying ENTJ more than INTJ.

Maz Kanata: ENTP Maz Kanata is quite the character, being the leader of a den of space pirates and other equally colorful characters. And Han and Chewie seem to love her. Maz is ENTP; making quips about Chewie being her boyfriend, being the “guy who knows a guy” (like Cosmo Kramer of Seinfeld, another ENTP) with the Master Codebreaker, and going on wacky space adventures in her free time, as seen in her hologram in The Last Jedi. Mature ENTPs can add a large amount of wisdom to variety of experiences they’ve seen in their long lives, and it’s no wonder the screen sizzles when Maz is on it.

ROGUE ONE

Jyn Erso: ISFP It’s becoming a real trend, isn’t it? Female ISFPs in Star Wars? Never tell me the odds! Jyn Erso, like many other ISFPs, exhibits a “once burned, twice shy” mentality that often causes her to be reluctant to declare loyalty to anyone or even be involved in conflict. Like The Dude (an ISFP) from The Big Lebowski, and almost all other ISFPs, Jyn Erso doesn’t want to take a stake in any side of any conflict. She just wants her dad.

Cassian Andor: ISTJ It’s a pretty simple conclusion that Cassian Andor happens to be an ISTJ. As a higher ranking official in the Rebel Alliance (I presume?), it’s no wonder that he wants to follow orders first and foremost and eliminate Galen Erso, because his very own Si-Te is on overdrive. But then, the Fi hits. Oh, what the hell, Rogue One it is. Hello, Scarif!

K-2SO: INTP He’s the droid with the sassy wit! He’s gotta be ENTP, right? Nah, I think K2 is an INTP. Because most of his dialogue and humor revolves around skepticism, I’m going to stereotypically label him as an INTP. It just seems right, and I’m getting quite lazy right now.

Orson Krennic: ENTJ He’s the director of a project. That almost immediately indicates ExTJ, right? It does. And boy, what a massive amount of Te he has. With the amount of balls it takes for him to stand up to Tarkin, let alone run off to Darth Vader to tattle on him, I would say that it only signifies Krennic as an ENTJ, because an ESTJ would never have those balls unless they were given them by a higher up or through experience (ex. Tarkin). And why does he have Ni? First of all, he has a vision, and he’s sick and tired of a bureaucrat such as Tarkin taking credit for his accomplishments and then also taking control, something the ENTJ never wants to relinquish. And also, he’s got quite the fiery-hot temper.

Galen Erso: INTJ Galen is a bit reserved and dad-like (his purpose in this film too), and very healthy INTJs, like Galen, are kinda like that. He’s a very realistic portrayal of one that’s closer to real life INTJs. That being, his tertiary Fi is well-developed in that he was willing to betray the Empire and build a flaw in the Death Star.

SOLO

Tobias Beckett: ESTP “Didn’t I tell you never to trust anyone, Han?” Spoken like a true ESTP mentor, through tertiary Fe. As TV Tropes would put it, Beckett is another character that exemplifies the “Heel Face Revolving Door” trope, in which the character constantly switches allegiances throughout the story. A common stereotype of many slimy ESTPs are their tendency to switch sides for their own benefit, due to their primary Se and Ti. Just look at Lando in the beginning. That old scoundrel.

Qi’ra: ISTJ While not so mature as a youth on Corellia (is anyone ever, actually?), Qi’ra later comes into her own type over the years as she matures and we get to see her primary Si in action as she makes reasonable, considerable choices amongst the entire Millenium Falcon crew through the film. And Si is one for order and loyalty; that is, until the ISTJs Fi eventually gets the best of them in the second or third act and they have a change of heart. In this case, it’s her turning on Vos.

L3-37: INFP Freedom for droids! Sound like anyone you know? Probably that Social Justice Warrior or extremely passionate Fi-user that you know in real life. You know, like an INFP or an ISFP (morely likely an INFP though). The rest of you that are just as knowledgeable in MBTI, you can fill in the blanks and you’d probably agree with me on this one.

Dryden Vos: ESTJ Again, all he cares about is the money and the pleasures. So, another xSTP crimelord/bounty hunter stereotype? Actually not this time. Initially, I thought he was an ESTP due to this. However, the scene where Beckett reveals his true colors in the con and Vos temporarily offers an implied allegiance to Han to get him, only to turn on him when Beckett leaves, signifies a key difference between the ESTP and the ESTJ. While the ESTP may go forward and stick with the allegiance, the ESTJ will more than likely feign it. And the ESTJ will sometimes do anything and accept any methods to get the job done (tertiary Ne), but ultimately dish out order in the end after the parties and dust have settled, returning to the old status quo (or rarely, starting a new one). To be honest, I’m still thinking about this one. I might go back and change Vos to an ESTP. Who knows, in time.

GENERAL

Darth Plagueis: INTP Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the INTP? I thought not. It’s not a story Enneagram would tell you. It’s an MBTI legend. Darth Plagueis was an INTP so powerful and so wise he could use his primary Ti to influence the midichlorians to create…… life. He had such a knowledge of MBTI that he could even keep the ones he cared about from calling themselves an intuitive when they were a sensor, or convince an INTJ that MBTI was not baloney. The dark side of the INTP is a pathway to many abilities, some consider to be unnatural. Eventually, he became so powerful… the only thing he was afraid of was losing his Ti, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his ENTJ apprentice MBTI, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep. Ironic. He could save others from death, but not himself.

Iden Versio: ISTJ I swear, this series churns out ISTJs like an assembly line. With Iden Versio, I hadn’t played Battlefront II, but I’d only seen a few cutscenes on YouTube to know that she’s another ISTJ. For my reasoning, just like at Cassian Andor above; it’s pretty much the same, except for an even greater amount of tertiary Fi from Versio.

Grand Admiral Thrawn: INTJ And now for the last but not least, most interesting character in the entire saga: Thrawn. And while his type is nothing but obvious, it’s interesting to delve into. Unfortunately, I don’t have all the time in the world to grant him his own separate post, so a paragraph or two will do. As an INTJ, what separates him from an ENTJ is tertiary Fi, and as small as it is, it’s still there. Versus being almost non-existent in unhealthy ENTJs. This allows him a more suave, cool demeanor, almost gentlemanly and noble, versus the ENTJ’s “I’ll only display that attitude because I’m sociable and charismatic, but I won’t be it” demeanor. In the Thrawn trilogy in Legends, Thrawn is more considerate to his subordinates and his partners, such as Jorus C’Boath (giving him Luke Skywalker), than Palpatine ever was to anyone. More often than not, when an INTJ makes a promise, you can bet they’ll stick with it.

CHARACTERS WITHOUT DESCRIPTIONS

Alright now, for the sake of brevity of this article, here are the characters I will not type descriptions for, just because either they explain themselves, they don’t warrant enough of an explanation, they’re minor, or they aren’t as relevant anymore (Legends characters). In regards to

SEQUELS

BB8: ESFP DJ: ESTP Unkar Plutt: ESTJ Lieutenant Connix: ISFJ Admiral Holdo: ISFJ

ORIGINAL TRILOGY

Uncle Owen: ISTJ Aunt Beru: ISFJ Greedo: who knows Lobot: ISTJ Bossk: ESTP Dengar: ISTP Zuckuss: ISTP IG-88: INTJ (even more of an awesome character in Legends) Wicket Warrick: ESFP Nien Nunb: ESFP

ROGUE ONE

Bodhi Rook: ESFJ Chirrut Îmwe: INFP Baze Malbus: ISTJ Saw Gerrera: INFJ

SOLO

Val: ISTJ Rio: ESTP Enfys Nest Leader: INFP

PREQUELS

Watto: ESTJ Sebulba: ESTP Nute Gunray: ESTJ Zam Wessel: ISTJ Captain Tanaka: ISTJ Captain Typho: ISFJ Boss Nass: ESFJ

THE CLONE WARS

Plo Koon: INTJ Luminara Unduli: INFJ Aayla Secura: ESFP Kit Fisto: ENFJ Bariss Offee: INFP Fives: ESFJ Duchess Satine: ENFJ Pre-Viszla: ENTP Quinlan Vos: ESFP

REBELS

Kanan Jarrus: ISFJ Hera Syndulla: ISTJ Sabine: ISFP Zeb Orrelios: ESFP Ezra Bridger: INFP Chopper: ESTP

GENERAL

Bail Organa: ISFJ Mon Mothma: ENFJ Iden Versio: ISTJ

LEGENDS

THRAWN TRILOGY

Mara Jade: ISTP Jorus C’Baoth: ENFJ

JEDI KNIGHT

Kyle Katarn: INFJ Jan Ors: ISFJ Jaden Korr: INFP Rosh Penin: ESFP Jerec: ENFJ Sariss: ISFJ Desann: ENTJ Tavion Axmis: ENFP

THE FORCE UNLEASHED

Galen Marek/Starkiller: ISFP Rahm Kota: ESFJ Juno Eclipse: ISTJ

MISC.

Durge: ESTP Dash Rendar: ESTP Carnor Jax: ENTP

KOTOR

Revan: INTP Darth Malak: ESTJ Darth Bandon: ISFP Bastila Shan: ENFJ Carth Onasi: ISTJ Mission Vao: ISFP Zaalbar: ISFJ Juhani: ISFP Jolee Bindo: INFJ Canderous Ordo: ISTP HK-47: ENTP Kreia: INFJ Darth Sion: ESTP Darth Nihilus: INTP Meetra Surik: ENTP Satele Shan: ENFJ

OLD REPUBLIC/TALES OF THE JEDI

Marka Ragnos: INTJ Naga Sadow: ENTJ Exar Kun: ESFP Nomi Sunrider: ISFJ Ulic Qel-Droma: ENFP

25 ABY - 45 ABY (and others)

Jacen Solo (Darth Caedus): INFP Jaina Solo: ESTP Lumiya: ENTP Vergere: INTP Ben Skywalker: ISFJ Jagged Fel: ESTJ Tahiri Veila: ESFP Anakin Solo: ESFP Abeloth: ENTP

LEGACY

Darth Krayt: INTJ Darth Talon: ISTP Darth Wyyrlok: ENTJ Cade Skywalker: ESTP Ania Solo: ISFP K’Kruhk: ISTP Darth Wredd: ENTJ

MBTI CHART

Key = Bold - Important (separate article), Italics - Major, Asterisk - Legends

ESFJ: Padme Amidala, C3PO, Bodhi Rook, Boss Nass, Fives, Rahm Kota* ISFJ: Chewbacca, Rose Tico, Admiral Holdo, Kanan Jarrus, Bail Organa, Captain Typho, Zaalbar*, Nomi Sunrider*, Jan Ors*, Sariss*, Ben Skywalker* ISTJ: Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker, Captain Phasma, Qi’ra, Captain Rex, Wedge Antilles, Cassian Andor, Iden Versio, Baze Malbus, Uncle Owen, Lobot, Val, Zam Wessel, Captain Tanaka, Hera Syndulla, Carth Onasi*, Juno Eclipse* ESTJ: Leia Organa, General Grievous, Dryden Vos, General Hux, Tarkin, Unkar Plutt, Nute Gunray, Watto, Darth Malak*, Jagged Fel* ESFP: Kylo Ren, Poe Dameron, Jar-Jar Binks, BB8, Zeb Orrelios, Aayla Secura, Quinlan Vos, Wickett Warrick, Nien Nunb, Exar Kun*, Tahiri Veila*, Anakin Solo*, Rosh Penin* ISFP: Rey, Asajj Ventress, Jyn Erso, Sabine, Galen Marek/Starkiller*, Mission Vao*, Juhani*, Ania Solo*, Darth Bandon* ESTP: Lando Calrissian, Tobias Beckett, Jabba the Hutt, Hondo Ohnaka, Bossk, DJ, Rio, Sebulba, Chopper, Cade Skywalker*, Durge*, Dash Rendar*, Jaina Solo*, Darth Sion* ISTP: Han Solo, Darth Maul, Boba Fett, Jango Fett, Savage Opress, Cad Bane, Zuckuss, Dengar, Mara Jade*, Canderous Ordo*, Darth Talon*, K’Kruhk* ENFJ: Obi Wan Kenobi, Duchess Satine, Kit Fisto, Mon Mothma, Jorus C’Baoth*, Bastila Shan*, Satele Shan*, Jerec* ENFP: Finn, Qui-Gon Jinn, Ahsoka Tano, Ulic Qel-Droma*, Tavion Axmis* INFP: Luke Skywalker, L3-37, Chirrut Îmwe, Enfys Nest Leader, Ezra Bridger, Bariss Offee, Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus*, Jaden Korr* INFJ: Yoda, Count Dooku, Mother Talzin, Saw Gerrera, Luminara Unduli, Kyle Katarn*, Jolee Bindo*, Kreia* ENTP: R2-D2, Maz Kanata, Pre-Viszla, HK-47*, Meetra Surik*, Lumiya*, Carnor Jax*, Abeloth*, Darth Wyyrlok* INTP: K2-SO, Darth Plagueis, Revan*, Darth Nihilus*, Vergere* ENTJ: Sheev Palpatine, Orson Krennic, Snoke, Mace Windu, Naga Sadow*, Desann*, Darth Wredd* INTJ: Thrawn, Galen Erso, IG-88, Plo Koon, Darth Krayt*, Marka Ragnos*

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