#love how the completely misunderstanding of nonbinary gender led to this

[werevulvi]

I kinda just wanted to make a rant, to lay out why I feel so iffy about trans women and hopefully get a better understanding of my own feelings and what the fuck is brewing under that surface. There has to be a reason. This post is analytical drivel, not a debate, but by all means, feel free to respond or otherwise talk to me about this. Let's take it from the beginning and then go from there.

Part 1 Detransition:

So, I began detransitioning roughly 2 years ago. That's where my feelings about the trans community as a whole began to shift, and with that my feelings about trans women. At that time, I was still active in a truscum group and came out as detrans there, after having been known and looked up to as a trans man there for over a year. At first I was accepted, but when I started having doubts about wanting to get rid of my beard, and felt like I wanted to embrace my body hair and deep voice... people there started acting like shit towards me. They told me that my biological sex still being female did not matter, that I was essentially a man and had to detrans medically to be considered a woman again. That hurt badly.

Shortly after that, I was also told that because I was medically transitioned, trans women were "more female" than me. That was like the last drop that made the goblet pour over. Fuming, I started saying that I'm more of a woman than trans women can ever be, even if I keep a full beard, because they'll never be truly biologically female, no matter how much surgery they got. I was hurting by their cruel words, so I stuck it where it would hurt them the same. (I’ve always an “eye for an eye” sorta person.) That's when people started telling me that I hate trans women, but I felt like that was a misunderstanding. That I was just acting out, out of sadness, grief, anger, panic, and having my gender denied for the sake of validating trans women's genders.

But were they right?

Part 2 Gender critical thought:

Over time, I got exceedingly gender critical and fell into radblr. I also read/watched content that "exposed" transgenderism as a scam, most of which was articles and youtube videos from conservative right wing people, and Christians. I had joined an fb group for detransitioners, and the creator, a "born again" Christian detrans man, happily shared all the many sources he had on how transgender was all a scam from the start of its movement. I felt somewhat sick consuming those links, but probably equally intrigued. But at the same time, I kept a foot in the trans community, starving for attention, even though I was never good enough for them anymore, unless I lied and said I'm not a woman. What a sick twist of fate, I felt.

Part 3a Sexuality, from a lesbian view:

Sometime around that, I struggled with my sexuality and after a lot on inner search, I came to the conclusion I was a lesbian. I felt as though I was only attracted to the same sex as myself, including trans men, but felt nothing worth praising towards males, including trans women. That led to yet another rabbit hole that I tumbled down into. I became convinced that majority of trans women were lesbophobic predators, and I had some shit luck on dating apps. Most people who approached me there were gnc males; transvestites and trans women. I almost went on a date with a good-looking trans woman whom I had mistaken for female, because I felt guilty for having lost attraction to her the moment she told me she's trans and post-op. Luckily she canceled our date for unrelated reasons. I felt like because she was attractive to me before I knew she's trans, but felt completely uninterested in her after the fact, I couldn't possibly be attracted to trans women.

Part 3b Sexuality, from a bisexual view:

That, of course, is not necessarily a bad thing. But I kept asking myself why. Especially since I realised my error in my sexuality calculations, and upon correction discovered I'm actually bisexual after all. I still find women and transitioned females attractive, and in addition to that also men in general, and some vaguely transitioned males. Except from trans women. That odd little inconvenience stood out as a sore thumb which I couldn't stop scratching. Why? I kept asking myself. Why not trans women?

My question dug deeper than just to attraction. I don't think I feel iffy about trans women because I'm not attracted to them. I think it's the other way around.

I never had to convince myself to be attracted to trans men. I discovered early on in my own transition that some other trans men were really hot. That was it. I later on dated a trans man whom I was head over heals in love with. That confirmed it. I've been questioning my attraction to standard men and women far more than I ever questioned my attraction to trans men. It was that obvious, that clear. However, when it comes to trans women I was always the complete opposite. That no matter how I twisted and turned it, I only ever felt revulsion at the thought of being sexual or romantic with a trans woman. No matter how well or badly they passed, no matter how aesthetically pleasing or how charming their personalities.

I wanna clarify that I'm not at all forcing myself to be into trans women. I'm just trying to understand why, so that I'll no longer feel bad about my lack of attraction to them. Because I cannot accept things which I do not understand.

Part 3c Sexuality, digging for answers:

At first I thought, maybe I'm just not all that attracted to femininity. It's not like I typically get super into hyper-feminine natal women either, and fake tits and faces with a ton of plastic surgery has always made me queezy. No, I seem to have a strong preference for masculinity in partners, regardless if they're butches, other masc bi women, trans men or kinda standard masc natal men. So then it just kinda makes sense that trans women, whom are often hyper-feminine, just don't fit that image. Except... that one trans woman I almost went on a date with... she looked like a butch. I mistook her for a natal woman partly because she had short hair, no makeup and wore what looked like men's clothing, but I could see she had hips and tits, and her face looked naturally female. But I still wasn't into her, because she's trans.

Then I thought... okay, that one checks out, but maybe I'm just creeped out neo-vaginas? Yeah, that must be it! I'm almost equally creeped out by neo-penises too, but most trans men don't get bottom surgery anyway, so it hasn't been much on my mind. But then I thought: okay, but what about trans women who choose to not get bottom surgery then? I am attracted to dick. Nope, still uneasy at that thought. I started comparing men who are just very feminine, to trans women, and noticed yeah I don't actually feel half as iffy about men who are just feminine. A man in a dress and makeup can actually be very hot, to me. And I've always preferred long hair on men. But I prefer them still looking clearly male underneath that, although I don't mind a few androgynous features here and there. But I’m only into it if they don’t act like their affinity for femininity makes them women or non-binary, or if they’re feminine in a way that mocks or sexualises womanhood. So I’m not into tacky transvestites in over-sexualised lingerie. At least try to be tactful and elegant, please. So, it’s not male femininity per se that puts me off. If there’s any femininity I’m actually into, it’s male femininity. Because gender non-conformity is attractive to me. And I love the idea of being a strong female protector and girlboss of a gentle, delicate, feminine man. At least I like fantasising about that. (But enough about my daydreams.)

Part 4a Womanhood, biology and identity:

Somewhere after having gotten that far in my digging, I started getting close to finding my sore spot: trans women's view on womanhood.

As for myself, my own view of womanhood is completely detached from femininity. I'm just like... I can even have a full beard and bass voice, a flat and hairy chest, and still be a woman. Because I'm simply bio female. Trans women tend to very often think that they need to "pass" and with that comes a certain look: high voice, no facial hair, no body hair, big breasts, curvy hips, etc. All of which are features that I'm dysphoric about having on my own body, but admire in other natal women. But on trans women, it's like I feel uncomfortable about those kinda features on them. Like to me being a woman is just dealing with having developed that way, or not dealing with having developed that way. Where as for them it seems to be actually striving for developing that way, and I guess that causes my brain to short circuit. Cannot comprehend.

Part 4b Womanhood, fragility and validation:

My womanhood is kinda fragile. I admit that. I'm quite insecure as a woman, because of my transition and masculinity. I feel like most of my womanhood has been lost, which although I'm fine with, I still grieve. I grieve it because I was a bit of an idiot when I first transitioned and had not yet processed my trauma - not because I regret looking like a man. It's complicated, but basically... I feel as though my womanhood is hanging by a thread, which is my genitals, reproductive system and chromosomes; all of which are either mostly hidden or always invisible.

I'm often met with disbelief and disagreement. People either saying "You're not a woman because you can't possibly be female. You look too male." or "You're not a woman because you medically transitioned. You having a uterus is not enough to make you a woman." and it gets to me. And then there are trans women... some of whom do not even need to put on a wig to be instantly validated as women by just identifying as such. Others thinking that because I look like a man, they refuse to think of me as a woman. And that... pisses me off.

There have been a few trans women who in some utterly failed attempt at being supportive of me have said I'm like a nonbinary person who is half male and half female. That's not a lot better, but thanks for trying... I guess.

Part 4c Womanhood, dysphoria and misogyny:

I think that might be what gets to me about trans women. All of it. This entire list of things. That some of them are lesbophobic predators and have absurd claims of what being female is, that others mock womanhood, and yet others view themselves as somehow more female than I am. The genital factor and the slight creepiness of plastic surgery. Their view of womanhood as an identity and my view of it as a biological sex. I keep ending up in fights with trans women about these sorta things. I can't keep a lid on my frustrations no matter how hard I try to just see them as people with dysphoria and opinions that are different from mine. I cannot find any fucking solidarity between myself, as a dysphoric natal woman, and trans women. I feel like they're making mockery of my sex, my dysphoria and my struggles with misogyny, as well as making me feel like shit about something that I love about my body: my transition. I have no common grounds with them, and whenever they try to find solidarity in stuff like misogyny, I feel like they don't even know what the fuck they're talking about. I have a huge bone to pick with them, on multiple levels, and I don't even know where to start or where it ends.

Part 4d Womanhood, jealousy:

But a lot of it comes from jealousy. And I think it's mutual. I'm jealous of their ability to access female only spaces despite being male, which I cannot access despite being female. I'm jealous of their ability to be accepted as women. And on the other side, I think they're jealous of my reproductive ability, and my female socialisation, which I'm not like super hyped about myself, although I do love my pussy (she gives me great orgasms.) I'm jealous of their ability to claim womanhood without even trying to pass as female, because people are quicker to accept the woman-gender-identity than the woman-bio-sex. But likewise, ironically, I sense that they're jealous of that I can claim the "woman lane" despite looking convincingly male, because I'll always be biologically female, no matter how insible my sex is.

They cannot see me as a woman, because of my transition, without looking at themselves as men, no matter how far they transition. And I cannot see them as women, no matter how far they transition, without labeling myself as a man, because of my own transition. I think that about nails it.

Part 5 Conclusions:

I don't think it's true hatred, but rather insecurities both from myself and from them. Because we cannot both exist as women under the same ideology. One of us has to be considered a man, and neither of us is willing to fold on that. Ultimately... I am a threat to their womanhood, as much as they are a threat to my womanhood. And that tension is so thick... not even a knife could cut it. I guess the sad thing is though, that I think that tension is unnecessary. I am so unlike trans women that we could potentially bond based on how different we are. Because there is a lot of similarity in those differences, if you really think about it.

But no, I do not wish them harm in any way. Despite the vast array of insults I sometimes hurl their way. That is really just in response to them insulting me. I do not think they're doing anything wrong by transitioning, or even necessarily by identifying as women. I think, if they had just been more like "I can see you as a woman despite having transitioned, because deep down you like being female and having a pussy... kinda like I'm a woman because I wanna have a pussy, despite having been born male" I would have been much quicker to embrace them. Because that, I could get behind; but they can't.

So, there is no solidarity. It remains an endless fight. But I feel like it's not just on my part. I have tried. I do try. But they're not willing to meet me halfway, and that makes me go to attack in self-defense, which makes then go to attack in self-defense.

#my stick up my arse about trans women #its hurt not hate #rant #analytical drivel #gender critical #radfem safe #detransition

[inactivefollow-blog]

Transphobic

I got called this without someone knowing why I was saying what I was, and my phone is being a prick and not letting me reply with what I was to say to the people saying it.

The posts I had typed up might show up later, they might not. Who cares, I'm making this master post to get it all out.

The post that got it started, on my end:

My response was to, in the same format, say how all people in the community are valid. They responded back about how derailing posts was ugly. My response was, in a less detailed way, how ignoring the rest of a community about sexual orientation and gender identity was rude because they chose to talk about only three (the more common ones households talk about too).

This was when the OP responded, still haven't been able to get it to load for me to read it but it says something about trans and nonbinary people having positive posts and something about being mad about that fact (?). I'll edit in a response once it loads up for me to read in full. I'm not mad about this response because I haven't been able to read it completely... That might change, that might not.

Edit: one primary thought I have is thank you for introducing me to a new term. For all my life, I have never read or hear enbyphobic/enbyphobia before and I'm glad you brought it to my attention.

My next thought is that I pretty much explained myself about how I responded fairly well in accordance to the other responder (below) that it fits with what OP had put.

Further response is, again, I wasn't using my full vocabulary due to not having slept just yet, even now but I've had time to actually think about my response and stare over what I've written to fix it. I apologise for how I came across and that it made you feel like I was attacking because of it simply being about what it was about.

Nonbinary, OP says in their response, and I will have to say you have taught me another aspect of something that I'm still learning about. I hadn't known that some trans people identified as nonbinary. My argument below still stands though, as not all nonbinary people are trans, and it is like you are validating only part of a whole group. And that's what makes me upset. Because not everyone knows all the terms, like myself. As such, only pointing out a few groups and calling them validated is wrong too. I give reason why below and don't feel like repeating myself.

But, and I have said this multiple times by now, am I sorry about how I came off. Normally I would either have left it at a reblog or I would have actually read your post without misunderstanding. I'm tired and disoriented because of something I ate (lovely isn't it?) and I have little excuse other than that.

But I will say that my misunderstanding was also a part of me being pissy over some things being said. I focused on the words gay and lesbian in the original post and I went off on a tangent, in my head at the start and then down below and in posts I mentioned above that led to this post, that was uncalled for. But I feel like it is still validated. Because what about nonbinary aces? Nonbinary polysexuals? Nonbinary bisexuals? Are they not valid too? Or is it because they don't really pick one gender (including gender fluid in this because I still see it as a gender identity) over another, or that they do but don't want much else but an emotionally intimate relationship, for themselves and in the general sense of the asexual definition?

Someone else responded though:

And while I'm not completely offended, gotta protect from phonics, I get that. What does have me offended though, is how they assumed.

I get how I came across. I do. Honestly? I'm pissed at myself as well, but having been vomiting since yesterday afternoon? Not really thinking about my vocabulary words and how I can use them.

But I initially responded to the first post because of my history. And that history involves only three parts of a community with more, officially or not, being talked about in full depth. Yeah, I heard about asexuals and pansexuals. But growing up? It was all about gays and lesbians and transgenders. I hadn't even known about nonbinary people being a thing outside of sci-fi movies. That came to light, for me, when my friend came out to me as asexual and we went into depth about what that meant and what else was out there in terms of sexualities and identities.

And last year, when I was fucking 17, when my friend and I had our conversation , was when I was given the opportunity to looking into terms that an initial Google search wouldn't have brought up. Like demigirl/woman. I'm nonbinary in the fact that I identify as a demigirl. And for the longest time, I thought poly was short for a relationship, and not a sexuality. Everyone I asked about it either thought I knew and made me feel stupid or knew it as only a relationship too. So imagine my surprise when I find out that it's an orientation too!

And imagine my surprise when I start looking into polusexual and realize that that is what I am!

And trust me, I've done blanket searches and have talked to people who are open about their orientations and identities and how they are allies. Demigirl/boy never came up. And polysexual? I don't think a good portion of my friends even knew about it either, and all I got in a blanket search was a definition for a poly relationship.

It's posts like the OP's that piss me off because I know I'm not the only one unaware of what's out there. Or if they do know, what it means in a specified manner that they can understand it.

And the OP chosing to only say how lesbians and gays and transgenders are the ones who are validated just, set me off. Because it's like saying aces aren't validated in how they don't involve sex in their lives as a constant factor.

I'm not transphobic, I'm someone who had to deal with feeling wrong in my own skin because other orientations and identities are not always talked about or validated. I'm someone who wants my friends, aces, transgender, nonbinary and all, to feel like they are just as validated as everyone else.

I regret how I responded, because it wasn't my full thoughts and it came off as, to someone, transphobic.

Because I'm not. I just don't like how only some orientations and identities are talked about like they are better or deal with more shit then the rest.

And so I'm not attacked for being indirect, I'll @ the two people I know are involved in this conversation as of my current knowledge.

@nb-leafeon

@howdyyloverss

(not showing up. My bad? I got blocked, is my guess?)