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twh-news · 5 months

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Tom Hiddleston Gave Us Clarity For His Comments About Concluding Loki's Journey, And Addressed Whether He'd Return To The MCU

Major spoilers for the Season 2 finale of Loki, “Glorious Purpose” lie ahead.

Viewers were graced with a truly wacky and emotional Loki Season 2 finale last week. The installment proved not only saw the titular character not only save his friends at the Time Variance Authority but also obtain that glorious purpose he’d long been searching for. Tom Hiddleston – the man who has brilliantly brought this character to life – recently made headlines when he said he viewed the episode as the conclusion of his journey as the character. However, he provided CinemaBlend with some clarity on those comments while addressing whether he’d be open to returning for upcoming Marvel movies or shows.

During the final moments of the finale, the former Asgardian mischief-maker managed to save all of reality by destroying the Time Loom at the TVA and revitalizing the dying timeline branches. With that, he took his place as the God of Stories at the End of Time, where he’ll now watch over all the various branches. Such a development feels like a fitting conclusion, so one can understand why Tom Hiddleston would refer to it as such. However, when I spoke to the actor, he wanted to set the record straight on that:

Well, yes, I suppose what I meant… Perhaps what I should clarify is that I feel very satisfied with the finale of Season 2, because it seems to contain echoes and resonances of the entire journey. It's almost like a piece of music, where in that last episode, you hear strains of, you know, whether it's in lines of dialogue, we are circling the same themes that I've always circled with Loki. But he's a character who is engaged with ideas of belonging, ideas of identity, ideas of purpose. That's who he was at the very foot at the beginning in the first Thor film, wondering where he belonged, which family he belonged to, wondering what his role was in all of this. Thor was destined to be king of Asgard. And who am I? Who is Loki? And I've been asking that question the whole way. Like, who does Loki think he is? Who's he think he is, and who is he really? And then through the series, in Season 1 and Season 2, I think the confrontation with Mobius and the mirror of Sylvie is another excavation, we go deeper into those ideas.

This is a very interesting take and one that is completely understandable. His sentiments on ending his journey were more based on the sheer feeling of satisfaction he feels over his character’s current position. I feel the same way, especially given the points the actor so eloquently mentioned during our conversation. The show (which is available for Disney+ subscribers) does indeed maintain the themes of identity and self-worth that have been synonymous with the antihero since his introduction in 2011’s Thor. So if this is his swan song, that’s surely one heck of a way to go out.

With that being said, there are still MCU productions on the docket that could serve as prime places for the character to return. (Avengers: The Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars come to mind, immediately.) Tom Hiddleston went on to tell me that he appreciates the “poetic” nature of the 2023 TV schedule entry's Season 2 finale, yet it sounds like he can’t say for sure that he won’t reprise his famous role again at some point:

So the end of this was just, it felt like a poetic redemption like the end of a piece of music, but I don't know if it's… I mean, I've made the mistake before of saying goodbye and saying goodbye to this great team at Marvel. And it's been emotional, and we swap notes and [they’re] saying, ‘Look, we'll love you. You’re always part of the family. Come see us anytime.’ And then the phone rings a year later. So I'm keeping an open heart and an open mind.

It’s definitely true that this isn’t the first time fans have been under the impression that the former Tesseract wielder has reached the end of the road. He was meant to be killed off in 2013’s Thor: The Dark World, and it seemed almost certain he was done after his death at Thanos’ hands in 2018’s Avengers: Infinity War. So in short, you really can’t keep a good Loki down, and I’m eager to see whether Tom Hiddleston dons those golden horns again one day.

#tom hiddleston #loki #loki season 2 #loki s02 #loki spoilers #loki season 2 spoilers #spoilers #interview #cinemablend

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insanityclause · 5 months

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Now that Loki season two has closed the TVA Handbook on Loki’s story, the question remains as to whether Tom Hiddleston has bid adieu to the MCU. It’s hard to imagine a better ending for the former God of Mischief, and since Loki‘s potential series finale aired last week, Hiddleston even referred to the episode as the “conclusion” of his 14-year journey with Loki. However, when pressed further on the subject this week, he then created a little bit of wiggle room for himself to return someday.

For Loki executive producer Kevin R. Wright, Hiddleston’s finale performance felt like a goodbye of sorts.

“I think his approach to that performance certainly was [a send-off], and I think we all felt that on set,” Wright tells The Hollywood Reporter.

But similar to his lead actor, Wright is quick to issue his own caveats.

“We wanted this to feel like a proper ending for our show, but that does not mean that there won’t be more Loki or stories within this world,” Wright adds. “We just wanted to give this a proper ending in a way that we often don’t get to do in the MCU.”

Wright, who originated much of the series’ foundational elements through his own pitch years ago, says that he’s still making the case for more TVA stories in the MCU.

“I would love to keep telling TVA stories. Internally, people pitch everything, and I’m actively like, ‘I want to do more TVA!’” Wright shares. “It will just end up being about where it makes sense for them to come in, in the future, but we all look at that corner of the MCU and go, ‘God, we’re just scratching the surface.’”

Below, during a recent spoiler conversation with THR, Wright also addresses a couple Mobius fan theories and how he’s looking forward to developing future TV series in a more traditional fashion.

So, in the end, instead of killing Sylvie to save time itself, Loki makes the ultimate sacrifice for the good of everyone else, and in doing so, he tasks himself with literally holding the fabric of existence together. And to me, that’s both a tragic and triumphant end. Why was this the right note to end the series on?

I’m glad those are the two feelings, because that’s what we were going for. (Laughs.) I don’t know if I can answer that beyond what you just said; it’s just the right ending to the story. We always knew the show was going to end with Loki on a throne, even in season one, and it was never about where he was going. It was always about the feeling we wanted audiences to feel when he got there, and it was about building the story that led to that feeling. Ultimately, because I don’t want to get too into the weeds on the last ten minutes of the show, we all feel like the answers and the intentions are there on screen.

But what I can say, generally, is that we are all really bored by the binary of hero-villain, good guy-bad guy, good choice-bad choice. In the real world, choices are really complicated. Real heroism often goes completely unrewarded. It often involves people who are making really tough decisions and will never benefit from the sacrifices that they’re having to make. And if you can build a superhero comic-book story that dives into the weeds of a more complicated heroism, then that was a challenge that was worth it to us to try. And Loki is the best character to do that with in many ways.

Technically, did Loki become the God of Stories, or a personified version of Yggdrasil, the Norse Tree of Life?

Are those mutually exclusive? It all comes back to questions of free will. Is he writing stories, or is he allowing stories to continue to be told? Is he weaving them together? It’s an interpretation of what exactly he did there at the end, but I think both can potentially be true.

Of course, anything is possible within the comic book genre, but this finale feels like a send-off for Tom Hiddleston as this character. Do you think we’ve seen the last of Tom’s Loki for at least a long while?

I think his approach to that performance certainly was [a send-off], and I think we all felt that on set. We wanted this to feel like a proper ending for our show, but that does not mean that there won’t be more Loki or stories within this world. We just wanted to give this a proper ending in a way that we often don’t get to do in the MCU. But also, in Marvel comics and the history of comics, the end of a comic run doesn’t mean the end of that character or those stories. And if there’s another story to be told or further stories to be told with what we’re doing here — and it’s with the right filmmakers and the right writers and the right team — then we would love to continue to see Tom. I also said this in season one, but I honestly think Tom will play Loki until he’s Richard E. Grant’s Classic Loki. It’s about the right thing and when we’re doing it, and being really careful about how we build those stories.

The TVA still has some unfinished business, as they have to track Kang variants. So will the TVA appear in the MCU again at some point?

I would love to keep telling TVA stories. Internally, people pitch everything, and I’m actively like, “I want to do more TVA!” It will just end up being about where it makes sense for them to come in, in the future, but we all look at that corner of the MCU and go, “God, we’re just scratching the surface.”

360 sets. You begged and pleaded for them, and they were worth their weight in gold. Kasra Farahani also sounded optimistic that this approach might become more common on other MCU projects. So do you think you’ve successfully made your case to the crested blazers of the Marvel Studios Parliament?

We’ll see. It comes down to the speed at which we make streaming shows, and that’s natural for TV. That’s not a Marvel speed. You’re shooting a lot in small schedules, and it’s benefited by having sets and not having to do a ton of VFX in every shot. It makes good practical sense, and there’s a reason why people did it for a hundred years of moviemaking. It’s about when it makes sense for our stories, certainly, but we’re also telling comic book stories, and sometimes, things have to be more fantastical than what you can build. So it’s about being smart and how you do it. I love it, and I know our team loves it. When we were shooting Loki, we had a number of filmmakers who visited set, and their reactions were like, “They let you build all this?” And it’s like, “Yeah! Wait, you’re not? You should be doing this, too.” (Laughs.) So, long answer short, yeah, I think people have seen what we did and they see that it’s an option now, and will hopefully embrace it.

Fan theories can be both a blessing and a curse, as your friends on WandaVision know, but have you lost any sleep over not making the McDonald’s kid a young Mobius (Owen Wilson)?

No, but I love that theory. I also saw that maybe Mobius is an Odin variant, and that was really imaginative and cool, too. So it was never discussed and I never lost sleep over it, although I read all that stuff and I love it. Partially why Loki feels more densely layered than some other projects is we know that people are looking at it in that way and are digging into everything. So everybody on the team really embraces that and goes, “If it’s in frame, it has to hold up the scrutiny.” We’re either subliminally hiding things in there, or we’re putting things in there to misdirect so that we can better impact people with something more surprising. But I love that people engage with it that way, and I hope that they see that we are engaging back with them in how we build the show.

And what about a medium shot of Loki and Mobius on the tandem bicycle? Do you regret that you won’t see that meme for the rest of your life?

No, because I can go online and I can see it in all of the amazing fan art. It’s out there. We knew you just had to handle that with a very light touch, and the audience will fill in the blanks. And they beautifully have.

Marvel made a bunch of release date moves recently, and we’re not going to see much of you in 2024. Are you a bit relieved since Marvel Studios’ own temporal loom won’t be overloaded?

What’s exciting to me — and this is something [head of streaming at Marvel] Brad Winderbaum has talked about — is what I personally will get to be making next. We’ll really be able to have the time to slowly build it, find the right team for it, find the right people to develop it, build a pilot and build things on a more traditional schedule. It’s a little bit like the sets. It’s good, it’s practical, it’s smart, and when things are done right with the right team, these projects can be really, really good. And I think Loki is really, really good. So, if we give the development and production cycle the right amount of attention and build a calendar in a way that allows us to really do this correctly, you will get to see more projects that are of this caliber. It’s just about giving the creatives the space and the resources to do things properly. So, ultimately, this is a really good thing. I know people want more, but I also know that if we take time with it, they will appreciate what they get.

Well, the ultimate compliment I can pay all of you is that I didn’t care much for Loki prior to this series, and not because he was a bad guy or anything like that. This show fulfilled the original promise of these Marvel Disney+ series by deepening this character in a way that the movies don’t have time for, and I have nothing but fondness for Loki now. So Loki should be the case study for how valuable Disney+ can be for Marvel.

One, thank you. Two, I agree. I know that our writers, Justin [Benson], Aaron [Moorhead], Kate [Herron] and everybody would also agree, and that was the most appealing part of this. You can slowly take your time and build a really fulfilling story. We have very little action this season. (Laughs.) There’s a lot of thrills and there’s a lot of big stuff, but it was about really taking our time to build a character story that can feel truly fulfilling. So I look forward to being able to do more stories this way.

#kevin r wright #interview #tom hiddleston #loki

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mittensmorgul · 1 year

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Okay, I have a lot of thoughts i’ve been rotating for a while now, and even if I don’t have a coherent overarching meta composed in my head yet, I feel I need to at least record some of these thoughts for future reference. Buckle up. It’s a lot.

I’ll start with a few overarching themes and points that cover the entire series, and then move into the specifics of the most recent episode, the PENULTIMATE episode lol, 1.12. gonna just bullet point these for ease of reference purposes:

-a ridiculous percentage of the series has dealt with monsters/entities with their own little pocket dimensions. yes, this was a thing the original series touched on occasionally-- djinn dream universes created entirely inside someone’s mind, gabriel’s eternal tuesday time loop, gabriel’s weirdo tv land, the soul eater nest in 11.16, and even chuck’s bar at the end of the universe from 11.20. Or like... the entire concept of alternate universes introduced in 6.15 The French Mistake that may or may not have been a construct by Balthazar... up to interpretation... and the final seasons wrangling of several specific alternate universes

so far in The Winchesters we have, by episode:

(under a cut because this got long lol)

*eta: since it’s been pointed out to me that not everyone’s managed to memorize all the spn prime episodes by number, here’s the Mittens Decoder Page on the superwiki by episode number: http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/Category:Episodes

1.01 the Loup Garou and the Monster Trap Box (which can only be recharged by things that are “not of this earth”, specifically they will learn it’s a transporter device that sends creatures trapped by it back to whatever world’s item has “charged” the box) they were searching for, hidden in a secret chamber for years.

1.02 La Tunda, who lures victims into her little pocket dimension trap via roots pulling them underground. she can only be killed by being stabbed with a piece of her own wood/body

1.03 the Bori Baba who lures victims into a pocket dimension trap via a burlap sack. he can only be destroyed (and his captives freed) by them willingly relinquishing/destroying the beloved thing he lured them with.

1.04 Mars Neto who lures victims into a pocket dimension trap and makes them relive trauma and fight him. Could only be defeated/rendered mortal when the amphora containing his power was shattered.

1.05 djinn... but these are slightly different than any of the djinn we know from original canon. they can form a link directly into someone else’s mind and control them out in the real world, not just in a pocket universe trap... it turns victims’ own minds into the trap

1.06 a vengeful spirit of a POSSESSED VAMPIRE of an entirely new variety, who broke free of a trap where he’d been locked for decades, because his friends felt helpless against his growing darkness/involvement with dark magic that was twisting who he was. Lata had to force him to confront that and confess, and the possessing spirit chooses to leave John in an act of doing the right thing.

1.07 straight-up Akrida-- the monsters apparently from an alternate universe trying to invade our world to devour it all (reminiscent of the tentacle monsters Sam and Dean found trapped in a different MoL capitulum clubhouse and accidentally released in 12.17, but bugs instead of tentacles...). They are our overarching Big Bad, who bridge the gap between pocket dimension and possession/mind control that surrounds so many of the themes of the series. but this episode explores them in more depth (right down to the underground lair where the queen was trapped). I feel the need to mention it somewhere, but the akrida used radio waves as a lure for all the bizarre monsters our core four have been dealing with all season, connecting the akrida directly to every other specific monster we’ve seen them confront. Episode literally called “Reflections” which leads me into:

1.08 Loki/Gabriel? Who I already mentioned above as a creator of pocket dimensions and messing with minds in original canon. And for some reason at the end of the episode, he’s trapped inside a mirror, a bit of lore we’ve never seen connected to Loki or Gabriel leaving me to wonder how trapped he actually is... A reflection, as it were.

1.09 vampires... but more the sort we already know from spn prime canon. except the whole mission around them involves a PROPHECY unwittingly stamped onto John’s hand. We’re reminded that prophecy can’t be avoided, BUT you can control some of the circumstances AROUND the prophecy. Context matters, and tiny glimpses of things aren’t representative of the whole truth. (4.18 anyone...)

1.10 A very Magnus-coded (who if you remember created his own little pocket universe to live in with his monster zoo and collection of supernatural relics) disgraced MoL who lies about his identity, his past, and his motives for returning to the clubhouse now. Literally wants to transfer his and his wife’s consciousnesses into John and Mary’s bodies to get back the life the Akrida had stolen from them and he felt they were owed... with no self-awareness that this actually made HIM the monster in this case.

1.11 the Shadow Spirits generated by Maggie’s magical bracelet that both showed the wearer the truth about hidden motivations AND could also become a trap. Carlos and Lata are pulled into a shadowy trap (not just in their minds! they are no longer physically in the house! they were pulled bodily into some sort of pocket universe BY A SHADOW (you know, the proper term for the Empty Entity in spn prime canon?). Where their only hope for escape was Lata confessing her deep, dark hidden secret to Carlos. She was terrified that he would reject her if he knew the truth about her, that Carlos would be ashamed of her, but he reconfirmed that he loves her unconditionally, and nothing will ever change that.

She’d felt guilt and responsibility for the actions of others for so long, but Carlos helped her see the whole picture again, that it was not her fault, that she’d been helpless to circumstance and wasn’t at fault for her father’s bad actions-- even to the point where they led to the death of an innocent woman.

But the other function of this bracelet, used on Betty to show her the TRUTH of the akrida-possessed people finally gave US a look at how akrida possession works. It’s not just the little spikes in the neck doing the controlling through chemicals or whatever, they seem to function like some sort of weird antenna that connects them via mysterious green tentacles of light up into the sky. Where do they go? I thought the akrida queen was buried underground, not in the sky? Who or what is pulling those poisonous green strings?

aside to mention lata found the bracelet hidden in A CAN OF RAT POISON, along with a tasty treat that carlos devoured. the rat poison packaging was just a decoy to keep anyone else from accidentally finding Maggie’s bracelet (and her stash of tasty treats lol)

1.12 LIMBO’S HOUSE OF HAPPY. a fucking CARNIVAL TENT of a pocket universe, run by a literal clown who made a deal with a witch to create a perfect place where he would never feel sad again. (somebody PLEASE tell me this feels like 15.20... from the rando pie festival where Dean STILL doesn’t get to eat pie and has it smashed in his face instead, and then gets hung on a rusty nail after fighting off some vampire clowns/mimes and sent to a weirdo version of Heaven where he can apparently never worry about anything again? freaking dystopian, ffs... but also... very much a thematic summary of the entire metanarrative plot of the Winchesters as a whole...)

I’m gonna spend the rest of this post absolutely yelling about this last one. While watching, my brain just kept lighting up with references to past canon.

A CLOWN named LIMBO.

Of course, when we think about clowns in Supernatural, we always think of Sam’s lifelong fear of them. Apparently connected to the fact that Dean used to leave him at Plucky Pennywhistle’s as a kid, but also... almost every reference to clowns in canon prime are connected either to Azazel or to Lucifer himself.

My very first thought about LIMBO the CLOWN was 11.10 The Devil in the Details. Rowena being the one to magically assemble the “stage cage” where they’d summoned Lucifer to question him about Sam’s visions and dealing with the Darkness, and Rowena appearing in this episode (even if in an entirely different plot arc, she’s still ~there~) feels very relevant.

But we’d known that Sam’s visions in s11 were foreshadowing a return of Lucifer and possibly a trip to the cage. But... Clowns Specifically were used to foreshadow this. In 11.07 Plush, Sam was trapped IN AN ELEVATOR with a murderous clown, and the overhead shot as Sam frees the man in the clown suit from possession... looks like cage bars (screencaps from HotN):

Remember, this was TWO EPISODES before Crowley leads Sam and Rowena INTO LIMBO in 11.09. LIMBO. Where Sam’s worst nightmare becomes reality and he’s literally trapped IN A FAKE CAGE, IN LIMBO, WITH THE ULTIMATE CLOWN:

(screenshot from the superwiki page for 11.09)

LIMBO is where Cas says yes to possession by Lucifer, and right after this kills Rowena for her trouble, after she confesses that she’s the only one who knows the spell to force him back into the actual cage.

From 11.09:

Crowley: We are in the furthest reaches of Hell, Limbo, where I send unruly souls for timeout. Sam: This is where I meet with Lucifer? Crowley: What it lacks in ambience it makes up for in security. They come to an empty cage. Rowena paints sigils on the cage, while the thunderstorm continues to rage. Crowley: Makes your flesh crawl, doesn’t it Moose? I get it. I’m the King of this place. It’s still not my cup of tea. Sam: I don’t know, Crowley. I’d say it suits you. Dark. Empty. Crowley: Fascinating; the utter contempt, when I’m in the midst of saving the Winchester’s bacon, again. Sam: The point of this is to save everyone’s bacon, including yours. Let’s just hope she knows what she’s doing. This cell won't hold crap if the warding is not right. Rowena: Don’t you worry about me, Samuel. I’m a professional. Crowley: Are you certain you can do this without actually opening the Cage? Rowena: We are about to find out, aren’t we.

Rowena BELIEVED Lucifer would become her protector, bring her peace, security, power. But it was all a lie. And in this episode, she seeks out Ada under the pretense of talking to the specific demon Ada had trapped in a bonsai tree, looking for information about her son...

Let’s detour through some other clown references from spn, just for funsies. The cold open victim in this episode was the only one who could see the magical tent, and his friend saw and heard nothing of it (he didn’t have the magic ticket). It called back to the children in 2.02 Everybody Loves a Clown. They were the only ones who could see the Rakshasa clown, who used those children to gain entry to their homes to devour their parents.

There’s also the ghost of John Wayne Gacy in 14.13, an episode where Dean’s wish to reunite his family is fulfilled, even for a brief moment. (the ghost will return in 14.20 when Chuck cracks Hell open). But specifically this clown is tied directly to John and Mary reuniting before John chooses to go back to his own time to save everyone else and restore the timeline. John will only vaguely remember the events as some sort of pleasant dream. It comes with a side of Dean accepting his life, not WANTING to change it because everything he’s endured has combined to make him the person he’s become. GROWTH DOT GIF.

(and in 15.01 the clown ghost nearly gets sam, again...)

Which brings me back to the Akrida. Our mind-controlling, possessing archvillain of this entire narrative. Whose goal seems to revolve around being freed from a sort of cage to run riot across creation. They have apparently shifted reality, all because Dean knocked over some first mysterious domino and unleashing the chain of events he’s been recounting through the entire series.

Was that inciting incident going back in time to deliver the note to John? Was it giving John the key to the MoL clubhouse that sparked not only what appears to be a massive change in the timeline from what we’d known from spn prime, but possibly also GENERATED the akrida as a monster specifically that creates these sorts of pocket dimensions to devour?

Also, brief aside to mention DEANNA. Like, the entire early part of the season revolved around Mary concerned about Samuel being “missing.” And yet, we also learned that Deanna had disappeared to points unknown. She hadn’t been seen by anyone in MONTHS, was last assumed to be hunting with some group in Michigan (? I think? top of my head reference), and yet NOBODY has showed the same concern for her whereabouts as they collectively did for Samuel. It’s almost like they all have some sort of weird amnesia about her at this point. They just... aren’t concerned about her at all, and haven’t even mentioned her in weeks. Which makes me think she’s at the center of all of this. I would be 100% unsurprised if she’s the one possessed by the Akrida queen at this point. because otherwise, WHERE TF IS SHE. But also, WHY TF IS NOBODY ELSE SEEMINGLY CONCERNED ABOUT HER AT ALL?! It’s WEIRD.

I am generally losing my mind over all of this, and don’t know what Big Secret will be revealed in the finale, but hooBOY I am prepared to scream about it for weeks. This is all just stashed here for my own future reference purposes, and I’m sure I’ll come back and add more things as I think of them, but heck this will have to suffice for now :’D

#the winchesters #spnwin s1 spoilers #spnwin 1.12 #spn 11.07 #spn 11.09 #spn 11.10 #spn 2.02 #spn 14.13 #spn 14.20 #spn 15.01 #spn 7.14 #spn 15.20

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alwida10 · 9 months

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Hey! I just saw that you reblogged a post of mine on Loki's powers a while ago. And while I completely agree with your tags (Loki's powers in the tv series among other things), you also write that the show was originally written for a different character and only the names were changed and the magic added later on. I've never read that anywhere, could you explain? It would make so much sense given how different Loki is in the show and how his previous experience is largely disregarded.

Hi there!!

It took me a while to answer this because of real-life stuff, but now I’m there!

By saying the show was written for another character I referred to this analysis on Twitter which again links back to another analysis on Tumblr. (The original link in Twitter is broken, but I found the post manually). I read this analyses a while back, and admire people who were able and willing to read Waldron’s original script. For me, it reads like an insincere column on what a deeply conservative person assumes would be what a left-leaning, progressive audience would like to hear without understanding anything about the points he tries to mirror. I can't add much to the original posts.

However, Waldron’s comments about Loki, including the “he’s an ass and that makes him easy to write” as well as his jokes on never having watched Thor 1 before writing the series can certainly give you the idea he never knew much about our beloved blorbo before writing him. The fact that he thought making Loki say “he doesn’t enjoy killing people but does it anyway for his personal gain” (rephrased) would make TVA Loki in any way redeemable is telling imo.**

Now, technically this is all I can say to your ask, BUT I realize I never truly elaborated on the stuff I mentioned in said tags, so here is an explanation for everyone who would like more about it.

I read those a while back and took my basic analyzing skills to the test by taking a look at Loki and how writing for a character works in general. This has two aspects (I can think of from the top of my head).

If a work is written for one special character it should be impossible to achieve the same plot if he was replaced by another character without the special abilities.

One thing I read a while back (and sadly forgot where) is that both sex and fight scenes are both character exposition scenes. This is true for magic as well, just it gets rarely used since in all of literature there aren’t that many characters who possess magic.

In the Thor movies, Loki’s magic is masterfully used, showing that the works were actually written with Loki in mind. Both Thor 1 and the dark world would simply not work if you put -let’s say Fandral- in Loki’s position. Loki’s skill to find the pathways between worlds is essential. And his ability to make himself invisible is essential for Thor 1. I could go on, but you get the idea, and I don’t want to get this too long to read.

Regarding the character exposition, Loki’s magic in the first movies was a mirror for his characterization (as it should be). He could make himself invisible, for he has been invisible to his family. He could cast illusions since he learned that people preferred an illusion to his real self. He could make others manipulate into saying what he wanted them to say because that was how Loki survived on Asgard (post-credits scene of Thor 1).

In TDW, we see Loki’s anger and frustration manifest in a telekinetic blast that ruins everything around him, and if that isn’t a masterful analogy for his arc I don’t know what would be.

Now coming to the series. All magic Loki uses is cosmetically or for show. He dries himself, he makes sweet little fireworks. How is that connected to his characterization? The show tells us he is insecure and loves only himself. If you squint real hard you might argue the drying is a sign of him being used to comfort. But I thought he was pampered and spoiled? Wouldn’t that mean he had other people to dry him?

And then there is the hiding/teleportation* scene on Lamentis. What does it say about his character? If it IS teleportation what does it say about him? That he can go distances without walking, perhaps, which would fit his line “I never walked so much in my life”, but doesn’t fit that scene from Thor 1 where we see how long he had to walk. And if he can teleport why doesn’t he spare them the walk? And if it doesn’t work for long distances, why does he run for cover right when they realize they are on Lamentis and doesn’t teleport? Why doesn’t he teleport onboard the spaceship? IF they wanted to use the fight as a character exposition, they should have made him use illusions. That’s his trademark.

Next is the “lifting a building” stuff. What does that say? I guess if you limit the interpretation to the series, it could be considered foreshadowing for the “we are stronger than we think”. And like so many stuff of the show it lacks any connection to the former canon. Loki isn’t known for brute strength, either of the body or of the magic. That’s Thor. Loki is known for being the intelligent one. Interestingly, the scene spells rather “we are dumber than we think”, too, since making two steps to the side would have achieved the same effect without any flexing of inexplainable telekinesis muscles.

The same goes for the fireworks in the train (characterizing Loki as sentimental, ok fine, and later as a dumb drunk who can’t control what illusion he casts, 😒). The plot would work without that magic. Just like it works without the drying, the building lifting, and all the other magic Loki used.

So, yeah, magic is Loki’s specialty that sets him apart from many other characters. Someone who writes a story with him in mind will use that automatically. They didn’t. Because it wasn’t him the show was written for. But the worst guy of all time.

Since I only talked about the magic here, I would like to recommend this marvelous analysis on Loki’s speech pattern and body language in the shown in comparison to the former installments.

* The only thing the “I don’t enjoy it” achieves is taking possible sadism out of the equation. TVA Loki is still irredeemable because he decided his sense of superiority would be worth more than the lives of the people in New York. This is egoism and a total dismissal of other people’s lives, something that cannot be “unlearned” by learning to love himself. That only removes the former motivation for the slaughter. Should something else motivate him to kill people, he would act just the same.

On the other hand, OG Loki has been coerced, not only by torture as we see it in The Avengers but also under the influence of the mind stone. Whenever we see him having the choice he acts morally better by sparing lives where he can.

**I don’t consider it teleportation since there is a time delay between Loki vanishing and re-appearing, and imo teleportation is instantaneous. Also, he vanishes feet first but reappears head first which doesn’t sit right with teleportation, and rather with making himself invisible and lifting invisibility again, but that’s for another post.

#mcu loki #loki meta #anti loki series #loki series negativity #loki series criticism #asks

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lokitvsource · 2 years

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'Loki' Creator and Tom Hiddleston on Covering 'New Emotional Ground' in Season 2 (Exclusive)

Following last year’s debut to critical and fan acclaim, Loki has been renewed for season 2. Now, as anticipation builds for new episodes from the MCU spinoff series, creator Michael Waldron and star Tom Hiddleston talk to ET about “getting the band back together” and peeling back even more layers of the titular mischievous superhero.

With production reportedly starting in June, just one year after the series debuted on Disney+, Hiddleston is eager to dive back into the world of the character he’s played since first appearing in 2011’s Thor.

“We’re starting very soon. Almost as soon as I leave this room. Not quite, but it’s around the corner,” the actor said while promoting his new Apple TV+ series, The Essex Serpent, in which he plays the pastor in a small town possibly haunted by a mythological sea serpent.

“We’ll certainly be going in the summer,” he continued, adding that he’s “excited to get the band back together.” That band, of course, refers to his season 1 co-stars, Gugu Mbatha-Raw and Owen Wilson, both of whom have confirmed they’ll be returning as Ravonna Renslayer and Mobius M. Mobius, respectively.

Meanwhile, Waldron, who also wrote Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, teases what’s in store for the upcoming season, which he has dubbed in previous interviews as “emotional.”

“Without getting too specific, it’s just a continued evolution of the character. That’s what was always important to Tom and that’s what was important to me,” Waldron said when asked to elaborate on the emotional element of the new episodes.

“If we’re going to continue [the first season story] in a second season, we have to cover new emotional ground,” he continued. “And the great news is that that character keeps revealing new layers of texture and complexity.”

As for how the most recent film installment of the Marvel Cinematic Universe influences the future of the Loki series, Waldron teased that after “everything that happened in this movie there’s probably some branches going all over the place.”

“I imagine Mobius is out there watching this on a monitor, having to light up a cigarette and saying, ‘Oh my god,’” he continued, joking that the Time Variance Authority agent might be bowled over by all the unexpected events. “I guess we’ll have to wait and find out what that means for those guys.”

Until then, Waldron said, “It’s really a joy to get to work with Tom and continue to bring Loki to life.”

#tom hiddleston #loki #loki tv #loki series #s2 #news #article #interview #michael waldron

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sapphicbookclub · 1 year

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Author Spotlight: Dominique Davis

We're thrilled to bring you a post by Dominique Davis, author of the club read Falling For the Mark, about being gay and doing crime. Read on to hear her thoughts on queer villains and anti-heroes!

Be gay. Do crime. It’s not just a catchphrase. It’s a lifestyle. It’s a religion. And if you understand where that reference is from, we can be friends. Okay, but in all seriousness, there has been a clear increase in queer villains and anti-heroes in pop culture. I’m sure you’re already familiar with some of these characters, like Villanelle from Killing Eve and arguably the G.O.A.T of the genre, Hannibal Lecter. But what you may not know is that these popular queer characters started in between the pages of novels. That’s right. Author Luke Jennings created Villanelle for the 2018 novel Codename Villanelle before it was quickly adapted into a TV series by Phoebe Waller-Bridge called Killing Eve. Similarly, Hannibal Lecter first appeared in the novel Red Dragon by Thomas Harris in 1981 and has since become one of the most iconic villains in pop culture. And while Hannibal’s sexuality is only ever hinted at in the novels, Villanelle’s interest in women is a central part of her character, both in the books and TV series. When it comes to the representation of queer characters, both Villanelle and Hannibal Lecter offer examples worth examining. However, it's important to consider what this all means. Why does it matter that there has been a rise in queer villains and anti-heroes in mainstream media? Well, if we look back on how queer characters were portrayed not that long ago, we’ll find that not much thought was put into them. If you saw them, they were the sidekick tending to the main character, more worried about what was going on in their lives than their own. Or if you were lucky, they were developed beyond being a stereotype only for them to be killed and buried next to the other gravesites of killed before their time queer characters. This is all to say that LGBTQIA+ characters have rarely been given the opportunity to be complex, nuanced characters with their own motivations and desires. The rise of queer villains and anti-heroes in literature, films, and shows signals a change in how queer characters are being represented. No longer are they relegated to the background or used as a prop. Queer characters are front and center in some of the biggest pop culture media out there today. HBO’s Euphoria, Netflix’s Heartstopper, adapted from the graphic novels of the same name by Alice Oseman, and even the MCU who hasn't had the best track record with representation still have characters like Loki, Valkyrie, and Phastos. To see depictions of queer people become more and more varied, where not only do we get to see them be the hero of their own story, but also the villain of someone else’s story is a step towards true representation. LGBTQIA+ members are flawed, imperfect, and nuanced people. We’re multifaceted and deserve characters who reflect that. Of course, not all representation of villainous queer characters is good. Some, in fact, can be harmful.

If handled with a lack of care, creators can fall into the trap of using queer identities as an explanation for why a character is inherently evil or villainous. This perpetuates harmful stereotypes and further marginalizes the entire queer community. There’s a line that has to be towed by writers to allow queer characters to be portrayed as complex and nuanced, all the while avoiding harmful stereotypes and tropes that affect how the wider community is viewed. My hope is that one day we’ll get to a place where we can see a LGBTQIA+ character act as a villain of a story without it having to say anything about real-life queer people. Just as heterosexual people have lived with depictions of characters of the same sexuality as serial killers and thieves without it being seen as a reflection of all heterosexuals. This current rise we’re seeing of more layered representation is thankfully just a start and not an ending. We’re getting some better nuanced representations of queer characters every day. And my novel, Falling For the Mark is no exception. The main character, Maya, is a Black pansexual con woman who falls for the daughter of her mark, Kennedy. For all intents and purposes, Maya is an anti-hero. She steals money from men without guilt and actually takes pride in it. At the same time, she is a fully rounded individual with her own wants and desires. Her sexuality doesn’t define her, nor is it used as the reasoning behind her criminal activities or deviant behavior. Maya's portrayal as a Black queer character is another important step towards better representation. Because while the rise of well-written queer villains and anti-heroes is commendable, more work needs to be done in terms of intersectional representation. Characters like Villanelle and Hannibal Lecter are great additions to the LGBTQIA+ character canon, but they are also white. We need more fully realized characters who not only defy stereotypes surrounding queer people but also challenge preconceived notions about characters of color. Representation of LGBTQIA+ people needs to be diverse and inclusive to represent us all or it only serves to represent a narrow view of our community. I hope that my novel, along with other novels and media featuring queer characters, can contribute to the shift toward true representation of LGBTQIA+ people. Queer characters should be able to be the hero and the villain of stories without falling victim to harmful tropes. We deserve to see ourselves in all kinds of stories, not just as sidekicks or punchlines, but as fully realized characters with our own agency and complexity. So go ahead, be gay, do crime, and read Falling For the Mark to see how it's done. Or don't, that’s cool too. We'll still be friends.

#guest post #falling for the mark #sapphic books #sapphic literature #booklr #diverse books

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iamnmbr3 · 5 months

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You can't call Loki from the Loki tv series Larry bc that's using a real person's name to insult someone

In the nicest way possible...what? The point of calling the show character Larry is to differentiate him from Loki by giving him a different name in order to 1) highlight how wildly ooc the show character is to the point of being a separate character entirely who just happens to be played by Tom Hiddleston and 2) for my own sanity bc I refuse to refer to what is very evidently not Loki as "Loki." Larry was the first thing that popped into my head, probably because it begins with an L and maybe also because of Larry the clown from Veggie Tales.

Are you insulted that the Larry the clown from Veggie Tales is named Larry? Or speaking of Tom Hiddleston characters, are you insulted that in Crimson Peak the character of an incestuous serial wife murderer is named Thomas? Is that insulting to people named Tom? (Tom Hiddleston certainly didn't seem to think so given that he played the role). Or - Lucille is a real name. It's also the name of his abusive sister in the movie. Is that supposed to be a problem?

It would be one thing if I said I was calling him Larry because he sucks and so do all real people named Larry but I didn't say that bc that would be an insane thing to say. I might've just as easily called him Bob. But I didn't.

Larry is a common name in some parts of the world and many people have it - including Larry Hall the suspected serial killer and Larry Stewart the famed philanthropist. It's just a name. Neither good nor evil. It doesn't mean anything either positive or negative to call someone Larry or to have that name.

In this case I am using it to distinguish the ooc travesty in the Loki series from the character he was supposed to be. And honestly I find asks like this to be just another attempt at silencing criticism of the series - just like people saying that any criticism is "negativity" and didn't belong in the tags.

#asks #loki tv series #Loki

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broomsticks · 1 year

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oh this was an EXCELLENT article. summarizing discussions and takeaways from a 10-person large 200-level undergraduate discussion course at UIUC about transgender issues in fan fiction!

some fascinating fan meta about Loki i had no idea about:

I started the trans studies unit with the discussion of the recent TV series Loki (2021–), set in the Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU), instead of starting with fan fiction texts. There are several reasons that I chose Loki instead of other fandoms that represent trans people. First, Loki is depicted in canon as gender fluid, making his genderqueer identity valid to the fandom. One teaser of the series shows Loki's case file, and under the category of sex, the file notes Loki is fluid instead of male or female (Romano 2021)

Beckwith argues that even with the shapeshifting abilities, Loki in the MCU is not a gender-fluid character because "up till this point, Loki has never shapeshifted to express himself. He has shapeshifted to disguise himself, which is the exact opposite of self-expression." … [on the other hand, there was another argument made that] Loki's shapeshifting is an expression of "doing" mischief, which is a part of his identity, as he is titled the God of Mischief.

ahhh super interesting!

the question arises: do related fan fictions do a better job in using Loki as an icon for gender fluidity? … I asked students to read three fan fiction stories on AO3 centered around or related to trans representation [including busaikko's cross-dressing dudley fic (1.3k, G)].

lots of engagement by the students including reading the comments, lots of positive sentiments towards fanfiction, but some good caveats:

quite a few students were cautious about the general supernatural settings of fan fiction, which indicates their poignant perception of the differences between trans representation in fiction and real life and their effects. [Students also noted] that the supernatural element in fan fiction might also indicate a sense of escapism in its representation of queer and trans people. For example, one student pointed out that "supernaturalness is currently being used as an 'easy out' for representation. If the only people that are represented as queer are supernatural, that still makes it seem as if being queer is not 'normal.'" Another student also argued, "Fan fictions use supernaturalness and fantasy to perpetuate false or inaccurate queer representations.

i loved this especially!

one student chose to explore trans studies in Harry Potter fan fiction though she was not familiar with trans theories before this course. In a very well-written final essay, the student examined how the destabilization of the boundaries between common binaries, such as human versus nonhuman, male versus female, and magical versus nonmagical, in the original Harry Potter fandom inspired nonbinary gender interpretation of fan fiction through a transgender lens.

dirgewithoutmusic fic!!

---

there was also a substantial discussion on omegaverse - history, references, food for thought!

Despite its popularity, few academic projects have studied the Omegaverse extensively, besides Kristina Busse's (2013) article and Marianne Gunderson's (2017) and Milena Popova's (2018) dissertations. Nevertheless, we should acknowledge the potential for the Omegaverse to promote social justice, as it may question the fixated binary gender identities. I argue that the Omegaverse can act as an accessible and influential special case to discuss nonbinary gender identities in college classrooms.

one student argued, "ABO [Omegaverse] is strange to me because it covers the whole spectrum from 'porn with no plot' to 'extensive metaphor undoing gender roles.'

students were also very perceptive in discovering the hidden heteronormativity and heteropatriarchy behind the nonbinary gender settings, with one student saying, "ABO fan fictions tend to perpetuate heteronormativity by portraying all relationships (even queer relationships) as the stereotype of one 'masculine' and dominant person, and one 'feminine' and submissive person. This stereotype is harmful especially to the queer community because it forces the ideas of cisgender and straight relationships onto queer ones."

students also centered the topic of male Omegas and discussed why this group is even more sexualized and degraded than female Omegas in the Omegaverse and the implications behind this phenomenon. Students appropriated the male-gaze concept in feminist studies and argued that this phenomenon can be interpreted as the result of the cis gaze, as male Omegas are othered and viewed as the fetishized subjects of cis females' sexual imagination

#acafandom #journal of transformative works #fandom meta #transgender #gender stuff

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the-haunted-star · 5 months

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My humble thoughts on The Marvels

The Marvels is a fun, brisk (perhaps too brisk), light-hearted buddy super-herione adventure. However, the things that Marvel has been struggling with lately are unfortunately still in the play with this sequel. The plot is pretty thin and the villain is another of Marvel's typical shallow, one dimensional type baddies. While we can certainly understand and even sympathize with Dar-Benn's motivations and why she's doing the things she's doing in this film there just isn't enough meat on the script bones for actress, Zawe Ashton to work with although she well with what she's given. The same goes for the plot. The acts that the villain is perpetrating on the planets and its people in this film definitely qualify as high stakes material but the film's pace is so rapid that it ignores any opportunity to show some emotional stakes for the victims of the villain's atrocities.

So while the film downplays these aspects it chooses to focus more on the relationships between the three heroines. In that respect it does a decent job of bonding these three young women along the course of the film into a sisterly dynamic. Each have issues with each other positive and negative and by the end they've been able to work through their issues and understand each other better. Brie Larson, Teyonah Parris and Iman Vellani have good chemistry together with Iman continuing to charm and delight as Kamala Kahn/Ms. Marvel. Sam Jackson is great as Fury as usual and has some of the funnier lines in the movie. And let's not forget Goose the cat/flerken who kinda stole the show in the first movie. She's back and is involved a lot more this time to equally humorous results.

I was pleasantly surprised and impressed by the fights in this film. I thought they were hard hitting, well choreographed and fun to watch. The fight between Monica and Kree soldiers in the Kahn's house was a stand out sequence which I thought made clever use of her powers. The end fight between the trio and Dar-Benn was also equally exciting . The visual effects were very good and consistent throughout which is another area where Marvel has been struggling lately. With this film, Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 and Loki Season 2, the VFX quality appears to be back on track.

Honestly my biggest gripe would be with the marketing department for this film. The amount of trailers, tv spots and clips released for this film was ridiculous. I only watched the first two trailers and maybe a couple of the tv spots and I felt like I had seen most of movie already. I watched the rest of the clips afterwards and was shocked at how much more of this movie was spoiled in the clips I hadn't watched beforehand. Even the surprise cameo and part of the fricking post credit scene was shown in a couple of the spots! If you're someone who did watch every bit of footage that was released I can honestly say you saw most of the movie beforehand and that's unfortunate. Given the film's short runtime you can rest assured there was a lot of material cut from the final film. I've already noticed a few things that were in the marketing footage and test screening leaks that were missing from the final cut.

Overall, despite a simplistic story and a forgettable villain this movie is still a lot of fun. While it is mostly standalone in nature, it is also very much a sequel to not only Captain Marvel but WandaVision and Ms. Marvel as well. (Surprisingly there's zero reference to Secret Invasion despite the Skrulls having a role to play in this film but that's probably for the best given how poor that series turned out to be.) The post-credit scene however is a game changer and hints at some exciting possibilities to come. ⭐⭐⭐

#the marvels #captain marvel #ms marvel #photon #brie larson #iman vellani #teyonah parris #zawe ashton #dar benn #marvel cinematic universe #goose the flerken #nick fury

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shadowsofmoonracer · 5 months

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Loki S2 Spoilers!

Oh my fucking god I just finished Loki S2 and IT WAS AMAZING! It’s everything that S1 should have been - in the sense that Loki was the main character, the story centered around him (and not Sylvie) and dear god all the parallels????

My mind is in shambles rn and I can’t think but holy fuck that season finale was insane. I think this has got to be the best marvel tv series ever if not the best marvel product after Endgame.

I also straight up cried when he took one last look at all of his friends knowing he’ll never see them again, and the way he silently just left and the two people who went after him were Mobius and Sylvie. And his look of grief as he shut the door aaaaaa my heart goddamn it

I really loved the way he transitioned into his god form so to speak, with the iconic horns - and the way he just broke the Loom, dear god that was insanely epic.

The Yggdrasil reference holy shit and him being in the center giving everyone their chance at free will. It was so amazingly well done. Loki really saw two options and said fine I’ll make a third.

I sincerely hope that they bring him back into the MCU as THIS Loki (I love IW Loki too but he’s dead :/) but it better not undermine the entire character progression he made through this show.

Also thank fuck for no Loki/Sylvie in season 2. That shit was weird af in S1 and I’m beyond glad they removed it in S2. Their dynamic worked fine as friends/family but it was so weird to have them as lovers

#loki show #mcu loki #loki series #loki season 2 #loki

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where-theres-smoak-2 · 1 year

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I have a question: if the books were written today, do you think the author would have a bigger inclination towards Alina and the Darkling actually ending up together? I don’t know if you’ve seen the original promo for those books, but it used to be called A Gathering Dark. The promo was in the woods, with shots of our iconic Darklina quotes and then it ended with an image of the Darkling with the line A Dark Heart and then of Alina with the line A Pure Soul and then it closed off with “A Love That Will Last Forever. Forever.” I mean if this was truly the original vision then people who ship darklina aren’t crazy after all. Maybe the show runners are poking that possibility a little bit? For characters to lean into their dark sides, become more morally grey. It is the trend after all with these books nowadays. The Darkling is like one of the OG, if not the OG, tall dark handsome powerful man in fantasy fiction no?

Honestly I don't know if the books being written today would have made a difference or not, there does seem to be this strange questioning over morality in fiction that I've never seen before and the morality police can be very loud and tv producers and authors etc do seem to be extra cautious with not having anything that could lead to bad press or controversy. But on the flipside there is still a love for the morally grey characters as well, like magneto, loki, damon, klaus, the mountain etc, and of course Aleks himself. So who knows if it being written today would have made an impact or not.

I do think you raise an interesting point about the original promotion of the book though. For those who don't know or haven't seen it the shadow and bone book was originally called 'The Gathering Dark' and this was the original cover:

That had that tagline, 'A dark heart. A pure soul. A love that will last forever.' There is also a youtube promo video from waterstones from 10 years ago promoting the book under its original name that as Anon mentioned had a series of darklina quotes such as 'I've been waiting for you for a long time.' 'You and I are going to change the world.' 'The problem with wanting is that it makes us weak.' Followed by that dark heart, pure soul, love that will last forever tagline. It's here if anyone wants to watch it for themselves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yocxvTZ1gp0. Considering it is only darklina quotes its obvious that they were using darklina as a romantic pairing to promote this book. I've seen a few antis making comments about how LB always planned to have M*lina as endgame and that can be seen because she starts the books with the whole the boy and the girl prologue and ends it with the boy and the girl epilogue. But they seem to fail to see how if this is the case, that the author always meant to have M*lina as the centre of the story and be this epic love and endgame, then it makes them using darklina in these promotions even worse, darklina fans were baited and used to sell the books, plain and simple. Honestly the more I see of the promotion of the books when they were first released the more I understand why darklina book fans were upset and angry at the ending, because they really were baited hard. It's crazy to me that antis can see these promotions and still not get why darklinas were upset and still say they were crazy for thinking darklina might end up together. I mean if somebody puts a load of romantic quotes from a ship together with a tag line love that will last forever any normal person is going to assume that its in reference to that ship and that ship's love is in fact going to last forever.

As for the showrunners maybe poking at the possibility of darklina, its possible, I do think they have put alot of effort into making Aleks more complex and human, plus they are adding the corruption arc for Alina so all of this could be to open up some doors to explore darklina a bit more.

#darklina #anti malina #anti leigh bardugo #answered

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