#loki series thoughts
I love this scene! Even though I thought it was too obvious what Loki was trying to do, the writers did a great job showing the manipulative side of Loki!
Slinking around Mobius
Whispering in Mobius's ear about how he needs assurance to continue working for the TVA
Leaning in close to convince Mobius that he only trusts him to give Loki what he wants,
Loki was playing into Mobius' protective side.
Loki: *whispers* We'll need to speak to the Timekeepers at once. They're in graver danger than we realized.
It's all very "devil-on-your-shoulder."
The lighting is A+ as well. It's shadowy and dark and casts Loki in an ominous(?) flickering light. Then the subtle music ties it together because it reflects Loki's sneakiness and him whispering into Mobius's ear.
It reminds me of the "Thor, it's madness." scene from Thor 1! Thor's having a temper tantrum over being forbidden from invading Jotunheim, and Loki slinks out from behind a column to talk to his brother.
Loki assures Thor he's on his side and that facing the Frost Giants is the only option. Loki plays into Thor's fears that the Jotuns will attack again, possibly with an army. Loki wants Thor to believe that Loki thinks he’s right.
Two seconds after the idea gets planted in Thor's head, Loki says, "Thor, it's madness," fully aware that once Thor has a plan, he's impossible to stop. Loki predicted that Thor would mess up relations with Jotunheim, get in trouble, and delay the coronation. Thor played directly into Loki's hands!
Of course, since Mobius knows Loki's tricks, he can catch himself before he falls into the trap. Loki was *this close* to convincing Mobius. He didn't anticipate for Mobius to call him out on his lies.
I love that the Loki series brought back the sneakiness!
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Good morning Loki nation!!!
Yes yes YES I KNOW I SAID THIS WAS A STAR WARS ACCOUNT BUT
I guess that's out of the window now
Loki has taken over
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Another 1x02 prompt (spin-off of on my "body-snatched Mobius" idea)
What if Hunter B-15 allowed Loki and Mobius to team up during the Roxxcart investigation, making Mobius the one ending up body-snatched by Sylvie.
What changes and what differs? Does Loki stay with Mobius and let Sylvie go? Or does he follow her because hes upset she got the jump on Mobius?
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Loki will not be upset at Mobius over Mobius possibly pruning him for running away. No, Loki would get offended that Mobius thought Loki betrayed him! Betraying Mobius to go after Other Loki/Sylvie is SO obvious! "Half the fun of being a trickster is knowing everyone knows you're a trickster, and then, many of your tricks can come from exploiting the fact that you know that they know" that you will betray them! It's obvious Loki would betray Mobius, so he CLEARLY didn't! "Expect the expected."
Mobius just got LOKI'D
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THEY USED SHE/HE PRONOUNS FOR LOKI IN THE SPANISH SUBTITLES IN THIS SCENE
So here in the English version its “this variant is insubordinate, stubborn, unpredictable” and since English doesn’t have the gendered adjectives its no problem. But in Spanish they called Loki “esta variante es insubordinada, terca, impredecible.” The fact it ends in A means its feminine.
(And they are talking about OG Loki and not the Variant because two seconds later they say)
The English version of this is “Towing a dangerous Variant into the field is controversial” the variant referring to the OG Loki since he was with Mobius in the field.
Which in Spanish subtitles (latinoamerican subs) its “llevar al campo una variante peligrosa es controvertido” which again, they use femenine pronouns for Loki.
Then here its the she/her pronouns again. The English version says “Loki is an evil, lying scourge.” But the Spanish version has to use gendered words and says “pero Loki es una lacra malvada y peligrosa.” They use mentirosa y peligrosa instead of malvado and peligroso.
But then they go back to He/him pronouns when at the end of the conversation. “Is that possible? He can change?” And in Spanish they say “es posible? Él puede cambiar?” Using Él as his pronouns which is masculine.
(They used more masculine pronouns in this entire scene but I only added this one since I’m focusing more on the She pronouns.)
Timestamp is 1x2 (13:16-14:25)
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Loki episode 2 spoilers:
Ok here’s the thing about episode 2. Primarily the big reveal of it being Lady Loki (called it btw). Now that there are two Loki’s (a male and female identifying), they not really gonna make Loki gender fluid. Like, the way they’ve set it up makes it so our Loki (the one that’s helping the TVA) won’t become female identifying in the show, and the other one (that their hunting) won’t go to male form and male identifying. Because, they made it so now there are just two Loki’s, but really it’s the same Loki just at the time that’s how their identifying, and due to their shapshifting abilities, they can outwardly show it in a clear way. But, this isn’t what gender fluidity is. They should both switch between quite often. I don’t want to speak for gender fluid people, but from what I know, it’s when you change the gender you identify as depending on how you feel in the week, day, or even hour, but Disney won’t do that. All that we’ll get is two DIFFERENT versions that I’m sure will act different (partially due to different actors I assume) because they are shown as different people because we’ve never seen our Loki as female (wonder why that is), but their not different people. THEY’RE THE SAME PERSON WHO HAS SLIGHT DIFFERENCES AT DIFFERENT TIMES (such as how they look). They should (and in normal society would) switch between genders quite often (or whenever they feel like it, from what I know). Also, our Loki should not have been the least bit surprised at seeing that the Loki they are hunting is identifying as female at the specific time they catch her. No. Because he knows he’s gender fluid (and therefore she is) and he knows what is female form looks like CAUSE HES DONE IT BEFORE. HES DONE IT A LOT ACCORDING TO HOW NORMAL GENDER FLUID PEOPLE BEHAVE (or at least as far as I know). It’s just so annoying cause I KNOW Disney will make this whole thing that they are so different and treat it almost like just in that timeline or whatever (idk what to call it exactly) that’s how Loki is CAUSE ITS NOT. THE’RE JUST BOTH. But HE WONT SWITCH. AND ITS GONNA HE SO ANNOYING. BECAUSE THATS NOT HAVING A GENDER FLUID CHARACTER, THATS HAVING A FEMALE VERSION OF YOUR MALE CHARACTER. NOT THE SAME THING. I’m not saying it’s not a step in the right direction, but come on.
That is, however, all under the assumption that it is really Lady Loki, and not Amora (who I now think it is, but that’s a whole mother post).
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I am totally NOT watching House M.D. and getting ideas for a loki x reader medical setting story 🤔 Loki would be House of course with reader being the one that pips up and questions Loki's moral choices and throws ideas out to help him pin down what illness is spreading 😇 all hypothetical of course....
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also???? hello i am having so much fun with the Loki series. finally got to watch episode two. loving the vibe, LOVE the apocalypse thing, the cloak did interesting things (of the stabby variety), I am having so much fun
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I can’t believe they put the Sims Medieval music in Loki
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Alright so I've seen a lot of opinions floating around and now it's time to add my two cents: the show's Loki is both similar to and distinct from the Loki we remember, and that is, or at least can be, a good thing
We have this idea of the "Loki we know," and we're frustrated that he's not being adapted faithfully--and to a degree, this is correct. Marvel very intentionally chose 2012 Loki as the version to resurrect, because that is when Loki was at the height of his popularity. By doing this, they could get the fanbase that Loki has always had to watch the show, while also avoiding much of the character distortion that came after TDW. A great idea! But then, instead of bringing this character into the show and authentically representing him, they smashed him up with Ragnarok Loki's portrayal. This was mostly done to engage general viewers and to maintain a slightly lighter tone, but both of these are mistakes: first of all, the general viewership has never been Loki's core, active fanbase. But I get it--you want to make money. The second, more egregious mistake, is that you absolutely could have kept a lighter tone with 2012's Loki, and then easily adapted him from there. At the end of Avengers, he's making jokes, and we see even more of these in Endgame. That's humor that's authentic to the character, and doesn't feel disrespectful like Ragnarok was. When we see the Ragnarok style of humor popping up, we immediately get defensive because of how that movie treated him, and we say, "This isn't the Loki we know." But the Loki we know is, to a degree...wrong.
This might seem a bit harsh at first, but I think the fandom as a whole is unwilling to let go of a slightly distorted version of Loki, and that's coloring the fan response to the show. Because we've spent so long with a character that has had relatively few instances of development or even screen time, we've become attached to the version of the character we think we know, sometimes without realizing that collective memory has shifted our perception of him slightly. We're unwilling to let the character change at all, even if at points this growth could be done well--and even if the character was faithfully adapted, he would be met with criticism because he wouldn't be "what we know"; he couldn't be, because we as a fandom created that character, over time and without really recognizing it. To a degree, that kind of misplaced criticism is mixing with the legitimate critiques of the series. It makes us unwilling to look at the good things that are present, even among the flaws.
As an example, let's talk about Loki as a planner, and how his actions in the series compare to those in the earlier movies. A common sentiment I've heard is that throughout episode two (and to a degree, episode one) Loki is just kind of going along with everything. He doesn't seem to have a plan, and this makes people uncomfortable, since the "Loki we know" was a great planner. Wasn't he?
Most of the basis for the "Loki we know," comes from Thor and Thor: the Dark World, so I'll be using those as my "proof texts," so to speak. In those two movies, we see plenty of examples of Loki making spur-of-the-moment decisions to take advantage of a situation; he's a very flexible, adaptable character by nature (as I've discussed before), so this makes sense. The trouble is, I think the fandom memory of Loki has shifted enough that we forget exactly why and how he makes these decisions, and how they turn out. In contrast to what those films actually show us, we tend to think of Loki as a very strategic character, who is too clever to be caught off-guard. That's not the case.
Loki, in those films, has very little grasp or consideration of the consequences of his actions, because his emotions cloud his judgement; because of this, his plans (which are created responsively), and even actions he does not plan, fall apart disastrously. In Thor, when Thor is banished from Asgard, Loki sees an opportunity to step into the role his brother had filled. Then he discovers he is actually Laufey's son, and in response to this news and Odin's falling into Odinsleep, Loki plans to double-cross Laufey and kill him to prove his loyalty, taking the throne in the interim. He does have a plan, but it's one that he developed rather spontaneously based on the circumstances--he didn't plan for Odin to fall asleep so that he could assume the throne, that just...happened, and Loki forms a plan to adapt to it. But when he hears that Thor is trying to return to Asgard, all of his insecurities, compounded by having just discovered that he's actually a Jotun, come back full force; desperate to keep the small bit of identity he thinks he's managed to find, Loki sends an Automaton to kill Thor--whom he loves, and has even said so several times in the film--and then tries to destroy the Bifrost to keep Thor from coming back. These are decisions Loki hasn't truly evaluated; if he had, he wouldn't have made them, because they don't line up with his actual goal, as we see when Thor arrives. When Thor confronts him, Loki essentially has a breakdown, admitting in tears that his real motivation for all of this was just to be considered Thor's equal. He didn't hate Thor, he didn't hate Odin, he didn't even want to be king--he just wanted to be loved as much as his brother. But along the way, his real goal was clouded by his emotional state, and he stopped thinking clearly, instead just lashing out in a desperate bid to protect himself from more pain.
We see something similar occur in Thor: TDW. When Loki sends the guards "up the stairs to the left," he's not thinking about who they might find--he's just lashing out because he's been abandoned by his family, and he wants to exert whatever influence he can over the situation. He wants to do something, especially if it causes problems for Odin and Thor, and he thinks the opportunity has just landed in his lap. He hardly planned for it, but he's not going to pass it up. So he takes it unhesitatingly--and his mother dies. (Coincidentally, after both his father's rejection and his mother's death, Loki nearly dies himself, and at least one of those instances was deliberate. Hmmm...Loki doesn't want to live with the consequences of his actions? It's too painful for him to face what he's done?? Hmm??? But that's beside the point.) Once again, Loki's goals are unclear, and things go wrong because he's just acting on emotion.
All this to say, for Loki, plans are very flexible things that are basically defined as "whatever works best to get what I want," so to say that Loki is just going along with things in the series, and is thus out-of-character, is a bit of an unfair criticism; despite our misremembering, he is, as he's always done, very much acting as a reactive planner. As I've spelled out before, when Loki is thrown into the new environment of the TVA, he immediately starts gathering information, and shaping his responses based off of what he finds. He takes the chances he has to feel things out (at the Renaissance fair, for example), but mostly he bides his time and actively observes until an opportunity arises. This is standard for him, but viewers haven't really been receptive to it, because it isn't what we're expecting.
Now, Loki claims to have a larger plan (something that we think we remember being common), but that's not actually the case. When speaking to Lady Loki/(Enchantress??), he says his ultimate goal is to overthrow the TVA--but he also framed his supposed overall plan as "get an audience with the Time Keepers" when speaking to Mobius. Neither of these are true. In order to more effectively manipulate others, he pretends to have large-scale motivations: with Lady Loki/Enchantress, he knows she will likely only respect him if he claims to have an endgame, since she so clearly does herself, so he manufactures one she likely wouldn't oppose. Mobius, on the other hand, would likely be suspicious without the red-herring Loki throws him; since Mobius believes Loki's trying to get an audience with the Time Keepers, he doesn't become suspicious about how quickly Loki becomes eager to catch the other variant, which would otherwise have been an appropriately huge red flag. But these are just misdirections, further things that Loki is doing to keep himself in the best position possible. That's why his claims of a grand plan (particularly to Lady Loki/Enchantress) sound sudden or unrealistic: they are. But because we think we remember Loki being someone who would have a larger plan, we aren't able to see that he doesn't need to.
This time, unlike in Thor and TDW, Loki's immediate goals are clear: escape the TVA. Be free. Despite Mobius' attempts to get him into a hyper-emotional, and thus, less careful, state of mind, Loki keeps his wits about him. He's intentional with his decisions. He's not lashing out. For once, he's aware of and considers the consequences of his actions--we see him weighing the options as he stands in front of the portal--and he makes the right decisions because his goal is clear in his mind. And this makes all the difference. Loki plays the game expertly, and for the first time, he wins--he escapes.
And I think this is an excellent development, one that deserves more appreciation than we're giving it. It's a good thing that he's not behaving how we think we remember him, as some master planner--that would be being unfaithful to his character. Loki isn't the same as Lady Loki/Enchantress. He doesn't have a grand plan. He just, finally, knows what he really wants. That shows growth, and that is the kind of change we have to want to see, and be willing to accept; so in that regard, it's even good that this Loki is different than he actually was. The Loki we see in Thor and TDW is a highly emotional, and very broken, character, who reacts to his environment often without thinking of the potential consequences; the Loki we're being shown here is still emotional, still clearly affected by what he's gone through, but is now able--or is now being allowed!--to demonstrate his actual capabilities. He ACTUALLY GETS WHAT HE WANTS. That's the first time that's happened, the first time his attempts to protect himself or outsmart someone have actually ended in success instead of disaster. And that's exactly what you should do with a character.
Now, a valid quibble with Loki's characterization is that these things are not obvious, and that is a very legitimate criticism. It's hard to see that Loki is manipulating Mobius by pretending to be helpful, because the show seems to be framing it in a way that encourages us to take Loki at face value. Loki's behavior is an intentional obfuscation, but it can be hard to realize that if it seems like that's what the show is telling us Loki really is. Personally, I justify this by saying that the show is showing us Loki as he wants to be perceived--when Loki is bluffing in episode one, he seems cartoonish and over the top, but certainly nothing like he actually is, and this is what he intends. When he seems too jovial and trusting in episode two, that's because that's what he's presenting to Mobius. It's about whether we buy into the act as much as the other characters do--which is why Loki's most in-character scenes come when he's alone. When he has no one to perform for, he stops performing for us, too, and we see the genuine presentation. But, I could be wrong--maybe this isn't intentional at all. Maybe the writers really are just trying to revamp a character from 2012 and are doing it clumsily, and that's why he seems out of character in moments like those. It's too early to say, and honestly, we may never be sure.
But there are real, valid, and undeniable moments of positive development, the likes of which Loki has never had the space to experience before. They are present if you are willing to look--but they are much less obvious to people who don't want to see them. I agree, they are hard to see, and if I'm being honest, I haven't loved the show anywhere near as much as I would have liked to so far. But I think the fandom as a whole is so caught up in this idea of the "Loki we know" that they don't see the Loki we have for what he is--people are too attached to a misremembering of Loki's previous actions to realize that the change in his behavior isn't a regression or a flaw in his writing but a sign of growth. We're too attached to his brokenness and weakness to let him become strong.
We are defensive about Loki's character because of how it's been mishandled in the past, but if you actually look, you'll find that there is actually a lot of good in what we're being given. I'd agree that the show has to get better about making that obvious if it wants to succeed. But I think some of the harsh criticism the show has been receiving is unwarranted. It might not be perfect, and some of these decisions on the parts of the writers might not be intentional, but Loki has always been a character we've had to think about in order to understand him. Just like this show, there is much good about him beneath the surface. And for as much trouble as it causes sometimes--I'm glad that isn't changing.
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Loki Show Spoilers!
Something I’ve been thinking on.... why is the TVA so empty? They’re clearly equipped for a much larger number of variants. The queue, the ticket system... and yet it’s only Loki and one other guy there.
That doesn’t make sense. See, there’s what, seven billion people on earth alone? All of those people making decisions every day, and at best not all of which will be on the ‘correct’ path that the TVA assigned them. We see how utterly massive the TVA is, but even so, every queue and every hallway, every mini-court like judge renslayer’s should be teeming with variants. I can buy that when the TVA was founded, they were busier, pruning down all the many, many timelines that existed, but.... that doesn’t account for the emptiness we see. At least not in my opinion. If they’re really policing the free will of everyone, everywhere, they should be unfathomably busy. Why not?
My guess? They’re building to something. The TVA is coming to the end of its functionality. Whether the timekeepers are real or not, who ever is in charge doesn’t need them as much anymore. And what happens then?
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there were six time lines before they murged them into one
there are six infinity stones •_•
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My wife and I feel a little lost here, we seem to be the only people not excited by "Loki+"
I mean, it's not bad, but it feels so unnecessary, not least because 2012 Loki is by far the least interesting Loki. He's still in his "fuck around and find out" phase so it's unclear if he can be trusted, or what his true motives are. Does he want to fuck over the TVA? The Time Keepers? The other Loki? And if so, to what purpose? Personal gain? Self preservation? It also feels irrelevant, like I'm certain the Black Widow movie will; both properties would have done gangbusters around 2012-2016 when these characters were riding high on popularity, but now it feels very like the horse has bolted before it could be flogged to death.
It's also quite dry. After Ragnarok, no mcu show or film can compare comedy wise but Loki doesn't even seem to try. In tht way I feel jokebaited by every MCU+ show so far: "Wandavision" looked like a fun sitcom but was about grief, "Falcon and the Winter Soldier" looked like a buddy comedy but was about racism, "Loki" looked like it was about time shenanigans but it seems to be about existential dread.
But it's not good enough to be a full fledged drama in the way WV or FATWS were. So it needs to be more fun. Maybe part of that is my bias towards "Legends of Tomorrow", but that kind of brings up the main issue with "Loki", it's not the best at anything so it's just ok at everything. It's not the best drama show about time travel (Doctor Who), it's not the best comedy, comic book show about time travel (Legends of Tomorrow), it's not the best Marvel TV show (FATWS), it's not the best piece of media or performance with Loki (Thor Ragnarok), hell it's not even the best piece of time travel media involving Owen Wilson and Tom Hiddleston (Midnight in Paris).
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if loki doesn’t go to a lake to show casey what a fish is and teach mobius how to jet ski i will cry
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I have officially decided that I want to have a long ass conversation that lasts at least 365 days with LOKI about everything under the sun because he seems to be someone who wouldn't mind. I am definitely falling in love.
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sorry i watched loki ep1 twice and all i could think at the end of the episode both times was that "the variant" was a combination of:
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This is what’s on the file librarian’s screen as Loki approaches her looking for classified files.
01:17 SYNC EVENT NUM:23493377
SUZANNE BOGG, FEMALE .32. TOOK WRONG BUS TO ATLANTA, GA.
1214.749 // 8455.922
10:10 NEX EVENT NUM:23493378
TRACY WILSON, FEMALE .25. TOUCHED THE TESSERACT AND OPENED A WORM-HOLE TO GODTHAB OMEGA.
4832.456 // 3844.218
19:03 NEXT EVENT NUM: 23493379
CHAD WESTLAND, MALE. 28. — [cursor typing]
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It was about fucking time Marvel used "holding out for a hero" in some of their content
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The optimistic part of me wants to cheer all those cool theories which try to explain Loki’s odd behavior throughout the series. I wish people with that level of creativity, resourcefulness and deep understanding of Loki’s character were involved in making the series.
Meanwhile the pessimistic part of me (and it prevails, sadly) refuses to search for any deeper hidden meaning behind what has been shown because previous experiences (with Marvel, MCU Loki, life in general) have taught me that more often than not things are exactly what they appear to be at first glance.
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not casting katie mcgrath as lady loki is homophobia no i will not elaborate
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