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the-cat-and-the-birdie · 7 months

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Another case for Mild!Miguel:

HOBIE is the reason I think Mild!Miguel exists. Hear me Out:

Inversions & Parallels in ATSV

[A post where I talk about how the existence of Hobie's arc backs up and/or proves my Mild Miguel theory.

MEDIUM length, I talk about plot connections and writing stuff as well as my predictions for Miguel in BTSV.]

Subversions: Character Building in ATSV

One thing that sets ATSV apart from a lot of other Superhero movies is that it's centered around not 'heroing', but the characters and the relationships they hold.

Each character in ATSV has a Subversion in their arc.

Subversions being the defying of the audience's expectations pre-conceived notion of a character. Almost every character we see experiences a conflict with how we first understand them.

Gwen goes from being closeted and closed off both emotionally and literally in terms of her Spider-identity. She starts the movie pushing away her close friends, and ends her arc embracing her dad.

With Jess, she is introduced as a family woman, who talks about her husband and child openly. When in reality, she's not a familial or a parental figure in the slightest.

Pavitr is introduced as a confident guy, who can effortlessly save everybody and still have time for school, a relationship, and a collection of streetdogs. But in reality, he's still just a kid who hasn't taken an L yet. He needs help, panics and sucks at hiding his secret identity.

Peter is shown as a happy comfortable new father who has perfected the art of being a full time dad and changing avocado poop pampers. But later, we see he's just a guy, still figuring this whole dad thing out.

With Rio & Jeff, they start the movie literally grounding Miles, and by the end, they're forced to trust him out there in the big world.

Even Miles experiences this, as he goes from a kid who wants to be apart of something bigger - before realizing that he only needs himself.

The writers of ATSV use these subversion in order to make three dimensional characters.

And Hobie Brown, may be the best example of this. The Writers preying on our pre-conceived notions of punk, and love triangles to give us a vision of Hobie before he even appears on screen.

In the film Hobie, is the only subversion that is purposeful. He's the only one doing this behavior on conscious effort.

Hobie is an outlier. His subversion is intentional - and doing this gives him enough power to exercise a lot of influence over the plot going forward.

Hobie Brown is the king of Subversion.

But who doesn't have a Subversion? Miguel.

But let's hold that thought for a second.

Parallels: Relationship Building in ATSV

All of the subversions are what cause conflict in plot. And in ATSV, ever character and their conflict, as an a equal reflection of their situation - A Parallel.

And the same way each character experiences a subversion, that leads to conflict -

Each Conflict has a Parallel situation that mirrors theirs.

And these parallels can help us predict the story.

Gwen & Miles Parallel each other:

Miles' family is desperate to be apart of his life, while Gwen's family - her father, openly rejects her. And in the end: Miles ends up as far away from his parents as possible, around the same time Gwen returns to her fathers arms.

Jess & Peter Parallel each other:

Jess begins the story with a hands-off mentoring approach - while Peter's is more emotionally driven. And in the end: Jess begins questioning her callousness towards Gwen, meanwhile Peter questions if his approach and babying of Miles is actually what he needs.

Rio & Jeff Parallel each other:

Rio starting the film being more stern on Miles - the last one in the guidance consolers office and the one to remind him of the cake. Meanwhile, Miles' dad is the one trying to cut Miles some slack. And in the end: Rio is the more open one - she's the one who lets Miles go with Gwen, and the one who hears when out at the end. Meanwhile Miles' dad is the opposite - ready to jump at the accusation of drugs. (lmao)

Hell, even characters that we see on screen for less than ten minutes could be considered parallels:

Pavitr & Margo Parallel each other:

Pavitr is inexperienced, but loving life. He's out in the field enjoying himself and his universe. While Margo is more experienced. She works the Go-Home Machine. But unlike Pavitr, she's not out in the field, and she doesn't enjoy her universe. By the end of their arcs: Pavitr is humbled and realizes there's some dark moments that come with Spider-man, and some close calls. While Margo regains her motivation and spark through Miles, heading out in the field again.

Every character has a subversion - Ever subversion causes conflict - and every conflict leads to a parallel. And through that, the story is made.

Just one problem:

Hobie doesn't have a Parallel. Neither does Miguel.

Why does Hobie - the only one who purposely uses subversion - not have a parallel?

If Hobie is 'The guy playing a pretentious fake punk based on people's preconceived notions of his ideology and appearance, who uses it to his advantage only when he wants to, and uses it for good - that results in a growth in community'

Where is 'The guy playing a pretentious authority figure based on people's preconceived notions of his ideology and appearance, who uses it to his advantage only when he wants to, and uses it for evil that results in a loss of community.'

Where is that guy? Can you find him?

Oh, damn it's Miguel.

Story Structure in ATSV:

If we look at the story structure of ATSV not only do we see that there's subversions and parallels, but we see a hole in the story.

With each character going on an arc the completely subverts audiences expectations - Why doesn't Miguel? (he does.)

And with each subversion, in Hobie's case, if everyone has an reflection of themselves and their situation that tie them into the story by common themes - Why doesn't Hobie? (he does.)

Why is Hobie the face of 'fake rebel that leads to great purposeful action' - and there's no 'fake leader than leads to horrible un-purposeful action'? (there is)

Did the Writers just leave this hole, and not tie Miguel and Hobie's arc in the same way as everyone elses?

No. There is a connection there.

Hobie is Miguel's reflection. Miguel is his parallel. Miguel's subversion is that he's not mean. He's putting on a persona.

Their parallel is - that they're both putting on an act. One for rebellion, one for order.

The difference is - Hobie enjoys his act, he uses it for good, and good things come of it. When he drops his mask as the 'fake punk', he does it out of the urge to empower himself.

Hence why he demasks himself in the comics.

And on Miguel's hand - He doesn't enjoy his act, he uses it for bad, and bad things come of it. When Miguel drops his mask and tells Miles two days, that is his mask dropping. It happens not out of empowerment, but vulnerability.

The whole scene in the lair is a purposeful ACT. That's why when he looks at Hobie (ironically, his parallel) he is able to turn it off immediately. Within seconds.

Whereas Hobie drops his mask in times of trust or action and rebellion - Miguel drops his in times of apathy or vulnerability - aka HIM SHOWING MILES GAB'S DEATH.

Miguel's conversation with Miles here - is the only time we see him not putting on the 'evil, angry, grumpy boss' mask.

He's vulnerable. This is Miguel unmasked. MILD MIGUEL.

While they were walking - Hobie takes his 'fake punk' mask off to be candid with Miles. He speaks honestly and offers empathy - and that is the GOOD inciting incident for Miles' rebellion.

Miguel is the parallel.

He purposely strips his 'fake mean boss' mask off in order to be candid with Miles. He speaks honestly and offers empathy - by telling him how long his father had to live (something he didn't have to do). And that empathy that Miguel gives is the BAD inciting incident for Miles' rebellion.

And when Miles is faced with the parallel of both Hobie and Miguel in rapid succession - it's enough to spawn him to escape.

Hobie and Miguel are opposing but mirrored forces on Miles.

Every character has a subversion. Every subversion causes conflict. Every conflict causes a parallel that spans action.

If Miguel doesn't have a subversion - and Hobie doesn't have a parallel, then how can those conflicts meet? Why this gap in the writing.

If Hobie does have a parallel, the only one left is Miguel.

But, if we're to believe that Hobie does have a parallel, and Miguel is that parallel - then naturally, they're mirrors of each other - and just like Hobie is - Miguel is putting on an act too.

And because the strongest representation of Miguel we see is anger, we know the anger is a mask for something else; aka MILD!MIGUEL

Which is what we see at the climax scene, the real Miguel.

Miguel and Hobie reveal their true colors at the same time, because they're parallels.

Hobie chuckles - the next shot - Miguel snaps.

It's meant to show in that moment in those two shots, these two characters are at their emotional peak. A battle between the two of them - convincing Miles - that Miguel doesn't even know about.

Hobie wins in this moment, Miguel loses, and we see them completely demasked, come to find out - we were wrong, Hobie the one in control and calm - and Miguel is not, he's grasping for control in anyway possible and it's literally slipping from his hands.

There stories are linked, and they barely share any lines at all.

Mild!Miguel exists because Anarchist!Hobie exists.

And all of this is why I think the following:

My predictions for BTSV:

Looking at Hobie's arc:

Fake Persona - Persuasive Set-Up (Talk with Miles) - Inciting Incident around Miles that leads to action (Miles breaks out, Hobie leaves to give Gwen the watch) - Self evaluation and commitment to the cause (joining the gang)

I think Miguel's is gonna follow the same thing

Fake Persona - Persuasive Set Up (This is Everything Speech) - Inciting Incident around Miles (Miles breaks out, Miguel snaps) - Self evaluation and commitment to the cause

Miguel re-evaluates himself and changes sides, turning the Societies resources on Spot.

Based on the subversions, parallels and plot arcs we see in ATSV, my most honest guess is:

Miguel is gonna redeem himself by choice very early into the film.

You know how the first half of ATSV is writen so when you rewatch it again, you'll see the complexities of Hobie's character?

I think the whole movie is written that way. So when you rewatch it AFTER Beyond the Spider-Verse, you can see the complexities of Miguel's character as well.

______________________________ THERE THATS WHY I THINK MILD MIGUEL EXISTS BESIDES EVERYTHING ELSE AND ALL THE VISUAL QUES AND STUFF. THIS IS THE MAIN REASON.

THAT'S WHAT I MEANT I'm so relieved to finally make sense of it. GOSSSSHHH

If you read this far, thank you for your time and entertaining me I'm SO SERIOUS THANK YOU

Please let me know what you think I'm DYING to know

Anyway closing RANT BELOW

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Warning: I go Miguel Mode below]

Thats why this WHOLE TIME I've been like he's RIGHT THERE HJSGDGKDS Cause like -- the story calls for it. if hes not faking why does he have that platform???? Why doesn't Hobie have a paralllel?? Like why is Hobie just this random ass OP character randomly dropped in for funsies - he isn't he's there to reflect Miguel's fake power. Hobie hides his true power the way Miguel hides his powerlessness AHHHHH

THATS WHAT IVE BEEN TRYING TO PUT IN WORDS!! THAT LIKE...I WAS WATCHING THE MOVIE *deep breath* I FEEL SO RELIEVED.

I was watching the movie and feeling like somethings missing in the story - that there's a whole connection that's MISSING There's SOMETHING we're not getting - there's something there. Something that can tells us SO much about the next movie

and seeing peoples interpretations of Miguel made me be like no.... he cant be the only 3 dimensional one. Everyone is the OPPOSITE of what we think they are. Everyone.

And everyone has a parallel. And this is the connection that is missing.

tTHIS IS WHAT I MEANT HOLY FUCK I FINALLY FIGURED OUT HOW TO SAY IT.

When I say 'He's in the room with us, he's standing right there' - I mean 'His existence as a character is what completes the plot. Mild!Miguel HAS to be there logically speaking'

DO YOU GET WHAT I MEAN LIKE MILD MIGUEL AND MIGUELS ACT AS THE LEADER IS CENTRAL TO THIS MOVIE AND THE NEXT.

MILD MIGUEL IS GONNA BE A HUGE PART OF THE NEXT MOVIE

ahhhhhhhhhhHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

Anyway if you're still here after THAT Hello hi I love you - Please tell me your thoughts and if you think it makes sense!

Here's Hobie for your travels!

Bye.

#no proofread #just vibes #spiderman #atsv #spider man #marvel #across the spiderverse #hobie brown #spider punk #spiderpunk #miguel o'hara #miguel ohara #spiderman 2099 #gwen Stacy #Miles morales #across the spider verse #atsv analysis #btsv

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makapatag · 3 months

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tabletop role-playing games, as a medium i think, are predisposed to crafting reals, on top of it being largely an exercise of language.

i'm using "real" right now as a basic "something that is completely true thing." in a sense, role playing game design is reality-crafting.

this means that every mechanic and every word used in the game, down to the language, is a way of crafting a real wherein the players must accept that is real (within that space). the reality is the bounds of the fiction and also the major expressive influence into the player's minds. however in a very weird positivist way, what mechanics exist in a game reify what the game says is real, and what doesn't exist doesn't exactly mean something isn't real. so instead of a real/unreal dichotomy we have a real/real (in fiction)/implication(pseudo real)/unreal

so for example: a game might have Stats, Classes, and mechanics for making attack rolls. all of these are Real, and they inform the fiction (a high STR might mean your character is strong, being of a FIGHTER means you're good at fighting and you can pull off maneuvers, making attack rolls is you committing physical violence on another). So they're both real and real in fiction. the localized reality around player characters now exist and they interact with the game through these reals.

now these things might be non-diegetic (frex, a FIGHTER (CLASS) might not actually exist within the game setting, they're archetypical representations, which is something D&D 4e and D&D 5e do), but that doesn't matter: those things are now real due to game design. this means there ARE fighters in your game, even if there is only one kind of fighter that the PC is, there are still fighters.

going further, these Reals also imply something about the established game world. these are not yet the pseudo-reals: so for example, a game that has CAP Skills (skills that cap any other skills you might use while doing something within their field, such as Horseback Riding [a Riding Skill 3 might mean you can only add +3 to when you're doing Melee Combat despite your Melee Combat being at +7, etc.]) this presupposes then that someone who isn't good at Riding cannot be as effective with their martial skill despite having been skilled at martial skill for years.

is this realistic to real life? it doesn't matter: with that established within the game mechanics, that is now what's Real there. and in role-playing you must follow along the Reality crafted there. this has a number of pseudo-reals (implications) such as (cavalry are all good at horseriding, etc.) but the importance of pseudo-reals is that these are things the table (the player aspect) can interface with as they wish. those things which the player has no choice but to interface with are the highest of reals in a roleplaying game

your choice of language informs this even further. not just the fact that you choose to write it in english (tagalog, spanish, etc. expresses things and imposes different priorities when it comes to real) but the wording choice you choose. frex: having INTELLIGENCE as a Stat can be somewhat ableist. what does high INTELLIGENCE mean? aren't there different kinds of smarts, is knowledge the same? or is this an abstraction? but is it a meaningful abstraction or an abstraction brought about by historical momentum (it's what D&D used). why is INTELLIGENCE a meaningful abstraction but STRENGTH and CONSTITUTION are split? these are all arbitrary until it isn't, and you must establish a real to live in the imagined space (that is, the fiction). i'm not saying the 6 stat array is a bad thing mind you but i think it's useful to understand why you have it in there in the game. if it's just because it's the most well known stat array then that's fine i guess

finally, what reals you put into the game is inherently informed by your own worldview. it actually doesn't have to be (that's the point of creation) but commonly game designers simply inject their worldview into the games as real and recreate that real into their tabletop rpg (frex, misogynists who think its realistic for men to be stronger than women, capping women's STR stats etc.) so choosing what is real and what isn't is a matter of paradigm shifting and realizing that not all realities irl are the same (not to go into metaphysics and sociopolitical philosophy)

#waksthoughts #absolutely unhinged word vomit #about ttrpg realism and the things that influence a reality #important to note that these are completely unreformed thoughts #like this is word vomit straight from the chaos of the soul #pure vibes based writing #nothing final #no authority #just vibes #take what works and reject what doesn't

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