#i was rewatching birds of prey and one of the scenes with huntress and black canary i just realised that | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

a-little-slice-of-fandom · 4 years

Note

hi! genuine question here: I saw birds of prey and I loved it, but I didn’t pick up on any hints of romance between Helena and Dinah. would you mind talking about those moments and why you ship them? I’d love to know because aesthetically they WOULD be really cute together and i’d love some backing to ship them properly. hope you’re doing well 💕

Hello lovely!!! ❤️❤️❤️I’m doing great, thank you so much for asking! I hope you’re keeping well too sweetheart

Firstly I’m so glad you enjoyed Bird of Prey, but honestly I totally understand not picking up any moments between Helena and Dinah. because I honestly didn’t pick up on any either until I was rewatching clips of the film days after my first viewing. I also don’t think that there’s anything world-shattering between the two, but I do think there’s something there.

The first thing I’m going to do is point you to this video, where Mary Elizabeth Winstead (Helena) and Jurnee Smollett-Bell both acknowledge that there’s something between their characters, and it may go more than friendship (some argue they’re talking about themselves and not their characters here but I don’t buy that. They feel like their talking about huntress and canary, not themselves). I think this confirmation from the actresses is key because Dinah and Helena aren’t on screen together much in the first place and without it their relationship could just be seen as two very different women trying to strike up a friendship (which isn’t a bad thing, not at all, in fact I find it a very refreshing angle that isn’t often explored between women) but the confirmation shows that the actresses acknowledge the chemistry between their characters and that they do see potential between the two.

I’d also just quickly like to take a moment to comment on the relationship between these two characters in the comics. While DC doesn’t know what the word “consistency” means, these two often don’t get along well. They don’t necessarily hate one another, but they don’t see eye to eye a lot of the time This is usually due to differences in character. Dinah is usually a more traditionally heroic person and Helena is much more of a rebel (obviously this is very simplified) and this usually leads to conflict and rivalry between the two that they have to overcome in some way.

(Again this is very oversimplified and I obviously haven’t read every single comic with these two in it. I’m just going off what writers often do with these two)

However, BOP doesn’t have this rivalry between Dinah and Helena because they are different versions of the characters. Helena is more awkward than aloof and Dinah feels like she doesn’t play by the rules as much, which means there’s no cause for the rivalry and their dynamic is very different, which is why I get romantic vibes from them. In fact, one of the first thing that Dinah says to Helena is “nice” and we consistently see Dinah try to compliment Helena.

Now I love this take on the two so much. It is so much more feminist to have two characters who are very different still get along and respect each other from the get go than force them to work through these differences.

Does Helena get off on the wrong foot with Dinah? Yeah, see the whole “I don’t have rage issues” bit. But you can see in the way Dinah reacts to this that she doesn’t find it rude or offensive, she finds it weird and maybe a bit endearing. Plus, once Helena realises that Dinah isn’t messing with her and is genuinely trying to strike up conversations with her, her entire demeanor changes. Look at the way Helena holds herself around Dinah before the fight in the abandoned circus and after. While this change in demeanor may also be because Helena is just generally more comfortable in a fight, I do think she has generally become more relaxed among the birds of prey and Dinah.

The main part that I always point to is the diner scene at the end of Birds of Prey. Although the camera tries to mainly focus on Harley, there’s a lot of interesting background moments between Helena and Dinah. When Harley is getting the drinks, you can clearly hear Renee say that Helena was “very impressive with that bow and arrow” and Dinah instantly jumps in and corrects Renee, saying “it’s a crossbow.”This then leads to possibly the cutest exchange in the whole film, where Helena is clearly very grateful thanks Dinah profusely, while Dinah simply repeats “I’ve got you”. In a matter of hours, these two have established a clear respect and understanding of one another and I really do believe that they’ve got some chemistry here. Again, the camera is trying to make you focus on Harley here but rewatch that scene, all I’ve said here does happen in the background and its just...adorable. And again, later in the scene we see Dinah trying to compliment Helena once again and Helena trying to repay the compliment,, specifically commenting that she likes Dinah’s trousers.

Is all of the above reaching a little? Maybe. But BOP also confirmed that Harley was bisexual within the first five minutes, had Renee be openly queer and had two queer coded villains so...is it really impossible that they also tried to incorporate something between Huntress and Black Canary? I really don’t think so. In fact, I think BOP was a really great film for incorporating queer characters but not having everything be about being queer or making a big deal out of it.

#Birds of Prey #birds of prey (2020)#harley quinn #helena bertinelli #huntress #black canary #dinah lance #enya discusses: birds of prey 2020 #ask #ask answered #anon ask #anonymous ask #anonymous #anon #birds of prey (and the fantabulous emancipation of one harley quinn)

22 notes · View notes

lady-griffin · 4 years

Text

Birds of Prey and The Not So Fantabulous Opening Weekend

Birds of Prey did not do well at the Box Office.

I’ve seen some people disagree with that…but it simply didn’t.

$35 Million (Domestic) is not a strong opening for a Superhero Hero movie that cost between $85 – $100 million to make (not including marketing).

It’s Worldwide Total Opening was $81.6 Million, which is also bad.

Birds of Prey is the lowest opening for a DCEU film. It’s about $20 Million below Shazam, which made $53.5 (domestic) its opening weekend.

Not a good sign, since Shazam/Captain Marvel (DC) is not a character known by general moviegoers, while Harley Quinn is an extremely popular character and was made known to many people through Suicide Squad and was one of the most popular things to come out of that movie.

Now, I’m of the personal belief that the first two weekends of movie really tell you whether it flopped or not, as well as the movie’s entire box office earnings.

But it’s not looking great for Birds of Prey.

So, I wanted to talk about some of the reasons why it might’ve suffered over the weekend and also what are the chances of it making a comeback. As well as what the movie will likely have to make to earn its money back.

Title Confusion

Talking to some of my friends and family, I realized that the title did not do BOP any favors.

A few of them didn’t realize Birds of Prey was the a Harley Quinn movie, let alone a Superhero/DC flick. They knew a Harley Quinn movie was coming out, but they hadn’t realize the two were one in the same.

Birds of Prey and Birds of Prey (and The Fantabulous Emancipation of One Harley Quinn) are not exactly eye-catching or gripping titles.

I personally, thought Birds of Prey (and The Fantabulous Emancipation of One Harley Quinn) is not a good title and annoying long.

Which leads it to be shortened to make it easier, which is how people are going refer to the film, and Birds of Prey doesn’t indicate to your casual audience what it is or about.

Especially, when not many people know who the Birds of Prey are, while a known superhero group for comic book fans, it’s not a well-known hero group.

And the studio seems to agree with that, if you go online to look up the film, it’s now Harley Quinn: Birds of Prey.

That was not the title on Box Office Mojo on Sunday (Feb 09).

So the studio is definitely trying to fix the title problem.

Personally, for me, I think it would’ve been better if the movie was titled Harley Quinn and The Birds of Prey from the very beginning. For a few reasons, but mainly -

I think that’s more accurate to the actual plot of the movie and the importance of the characters in the film

You know it involves DC and Harley Quinn

And it has a more Girl Vibe to it, to the likes of Josie and The Pussycats

However, I am honestly curious if this title will change anything for the movie, especially with the box office this upcoming weekend or if it’s simply to late.We shall see.

What is this film even about?

Going off my own personal conversations with other people, a lot of people don’t know what this film is really about. Which is think is connected to both the title and trailers.

I was super-interested in the movie and I was actively seeking it out on my own. Looking up fan theories or speculations as well estimates for how the movie will do and I recognized who the character were in the trailer. So, I knew what it was going to be about.

But, if someone is more casual about this kind of movie or movies in general, than I can see where they felt lost or didn’t know all that much.

One of my friends had no idea that Black Canary and Huntress were even in the movie and once she learned that they were in it, her interest increased.

Especially, when I told her that this version of Black Canary and Huntress our second to my favorite from Justice League: Unlimited. Which is where she knows Black Canary and Huntress from.

Suicide Squad PTSD

Or, as two friends put it, the trailers reminded them so much of Suicide Squad that it turned them off from wanting to see this film.

That’s interesting to me and I think provides a unique problem for Birds of Prey in the DCEU, but also something I don’t think some reviewers focus on.

Overall, a telling of a movie’s success is (if it has one) its sequel’s success. Sequels are often expected to do better than the first movie, because they are going off the good will of said film. Now that’s not always the case, but that’s what Hollywood is hoping for.

And while many, many people saw Suicide Squad, its opening weekend being $133.6 million (domestic), a lot of people did not like the movie.

Including myself.

I liked aspects of it – Harley Quinn, Dead Shot, and Amanda Waller and two scenes that I thought were excellent.

People not wanting to see Birds of Prey because it looked too much like Suicide Squad, might seem less like a BOP problem, but I would disagree.

The movie still went with many style choices that are from Suicide Squad or similar enough.

And beyond style, the movie does have Suicide Squad elements. While I thought those aspects were done better, I wonder if that matters enough in the long run.

The Trailer

I personally did not like the trailers. I thought the music choice was not the right pick and made the movie feel like it was going to be slow and low-energy, which is the opposite of what you want for Harley Quinn.

When I think of Harley Quinn, I think of high-energy and I think a movie starring her should be a fast-moving and high-action movie with lots of energy.

One problem, I found with the film was its pacing. Sometimes it was too fast (with jumpy editing reminiscent of Suicide Squad) and other times it seemed liked molasses.

So, I thought the trailer was not the best marketing that could’ve been done for this movie. Especially when I thought a lot of the posters were really good and the music choices in the film were well-matched and worked with the film.

I personally love Joke’s On You By Charlotte Lawrence.

youtube

R-Rating

One of the reasons Birds of Prey struggled was because of the lack of teenagers.

An R-Rating makes it difficult for teenagers to see this movie. And from the “leaving cinema” reviews audiences gave, those under 17 had the most positive reaction to the film.

So, if the demographic that liked this move the most can only see this film with someone over 18, then BOP shot itself in the foot.

Not only does the rating make it more difficult for them to see the movie in the first place, but also multiple times. Especially with theatres being stricter with R-ratings from what I’ve heard.

This movie did not need to be R as it didn’t really use its R-Rating to the fullest extent. I even wondered what the point of the R-Rating was when I was watching.

Honestly, some edits and it could’ve easily been PG-13 and that would’ve opened it up to a larger audience.

One of my favorite parts of the movie, was the Police Raid Scene, where Harley uses non-lethal (movie-wise) force. And while that makes Harley more appealing to audiences (not killing people) it also feels odd and kind of makes the R-Rating pointless.

That was a major problem. Especially in comparison to the Joker, which I though utilized its R-Rating fully.

Also, DC clearly was trying to have Harley Quinn be their Deadpool. Which could work in theory, but they didn’t really commit to it and honestly it didn’t work out as well as I thought it coud’ve. At least with the execution.

So, maybe the R-Rating was not the best choice for this film and maybe it should’ve gone with the safer PG-13.

Theatre Rewatchability

How many people went to see this movie two or three times over this past weekend?

I’m going to hazard a guess and say not many, if any at all. And that is an interesting point in the huge box office success of big blockbuster movies.

How much of their monetary success is due to moviegoers seeing a movie just once vs. seeing it 2-3 (or even more) times?

Now to be fair, I wonder what the demographic of moviegoers who go to multiple viewings. I’m assuming male, 20s-30s. But honestly, I have no idea and I could be completely wrong, since I don’t do that.

Seeing movie multiple times in a theater is not something I personally get. There are very few movies where I’ve actively wanted to see it for a second time in the theatre, let alone actually went to see it a second time.

I can remember 6 movies in which that was the case - Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse, Aladdin (2019), Avengers: Infinity War, Wonder Woman, Captain America: Civil War, and Avengers.

So, while I am actually likely to see this movie again (with my dad in like two weeks), I can’t say over the weekend I desperately needed or wanted to go see it again. And I liked the film and had a good time.

Of course, that should be taken with a grain of salt, since again I’m not the type of person who does that.

I have to wonder, if the people who go to see (blockbuster) movies multiple times (especially on opening weekend) were simply satisfied with seeing this movie only once or simply didn’t like it or didn’t see it at all.

Alienating Comic Book Fans?

I don’t know how true this is and as a comic book fan, I went to see the movie and I enjoyed it.

But I have seen a few people say they aren’t planning to see it (at least not in theatres) as they are tired of the oversaturation of Harley Quinn in everything, don’t like that Cassandra Cain is there in name only (which did annoy me), and that while being Birds of Prey there is no Oracle/Batgirl who is a main member of said team.

And I say I don’t know how true this or even accurate, but Birds of Prey didn’t do itself any favors by not appealing enough to a mainstream audience nor its niche audience who know and love the material it’s based on.

Oscars

While the actual Oscars likely did not take away any audiences from BOP, as the Oscars aren’t exactly a huge audience magnet itself.

I think a lot of people (or enough) went to see an Oscar nominated film this past weekend over BOP.

My theatre was showing Oscar-nominated movies and had two theatres dedicated to an ‘Oscar marathon’ for both long and short nominated features.

In this past weekend’s Box Office results (Feb 07-09) , 1917 was 3rd, Little Women was 8th, Parasite was 11th and Jojo Rabbit was 12th.

And Marriage Story, The Irishmen, and The Story of Two Popes are all available on Netflix.

So, I wonder how many people went to see an Oscar Nominated film before the Oscars and decided to see BOP another day or weekend.

Man Hating...depending on who you ask.

This is probably longer than it needed to be, but I wanted to talk about. So feel free to skip to the Conclusion.

I’m sure plenty of people will disagree with this and be angry I suggested it, but a lot of people, both men and women thought this movie was hating on men and did not like that.

And according to the opening night or weekend demographics the breakdown of the audience was actually 55% Men and 45% women. So it’s not like men refused to see the movie, some probably did, but apparently so did some women.

Honestly that’s not a bad split of male and female demographics, but the movie was probably hoping for a larger female turnout, if not a larger turnout all together.

While I’ve seen several men dislike the movie for its lack of sexiness (and the hating on men) a lot of those men still went to see it. So, whether or not they hated it, their ticket still counts.

But a negative opinion on any movie can turn away who knows how many future audience members.

Now my impression of the movie was not so much Men=Evil and Women=Good, but more of the idea that this movie and its characters are dealing with the underbelly of Gotham City and the less than upstanding citizens.

Thay being said, I am only one ticket.

And when I thought about it, there are really only 3-4 male characters who weren’t straight up sexist or evil (which is a low bar) and all of them were extremely minor roles.

Spoilers Below

Male Assassin/Goon, who saw Helena was alive and saved her

A non-speaking minor role and to my knowledge he didn’t have a name, so not exactly a great representation of a good man.

The assassin thing is just neutral, given all the other characters.

Guy at Roman’s club, who was force to undress his friend/girlfriend out of fear of dying

You get why he had to do it, but he still did it. So again not great.

And once I thought about it, I feel like this scene could’ve easily been done differently. The guy could’ve refused and Zsasz could’ve beaten him or kill him and the main point of the scene is still there, that Roman is unstable and very, very dangerous.

Doc, the man who knows everyone in the criminal world and sold out Harley for money

Here is where things get interesting. I honestly didn’t think he was a bad guy.

I got why he did it. It made sense to me and I think he made the right decision there. And Harley Quinn, basically did the same thing to Cassandra, so at the very least he’s no better then Quinn.

So, while I saw the Doc example as criminals being criminals. Many other people, saw this as another example of men being shitty. And even though I’m aligning him with the ‘good men’ of the film, that kind of proves people’s point of there being no good men in this film.

Finaly, The Police Captain and Montoya’s former partner - Captain Patrick Erickson. I had to look his name up, so that’s not good.

Here is where I think you honestly get the narrative of the film being against men and unfairly so.

We don’t see him do anything in the actual movie that is that bad or even sexist (or at least I can’t recall it).

So while none his choices or actions in the film were bad, the narrative and the tone of his scenes (especially since their from the perspective of Montoya) he’s clearly meant to be seen as a ‘bad guy’ or at least an antagonist.

We are literally told he took the credit for Montoya’s big case in a voiceover by Harley Quinn. And that’s it.

A dick move to be sure, but again, nothing he does in the actual movie really shows him being a dick.

So, for me it felt like his character got the short end and unfairly so by the movie. Especially since that voice over primes the audience to see him as an antagonist, despite what he does in his actual scenes.

So, thinking about that, I am liking it less and less. And feel like the movie could’ve made some simply changes.

And while not my take away, I did consider this opinion after seeing it more than once. And I think that argument does have had a leg or two to stand on, especially when I consider how the movie handled the Police Captain Character.

However, for me I never really felt like this movie hated men, because while a villain and a complete psychopath who was sexist, I absolutely loved Ewan McGregor’s Black Mask.

I thought he was such a fantastic and engaging villain and I absolutely loved his scenes and was hooked everytime he was on screen.

Far from a good guy to be sure, but to me that didn’t matter so much, because he was such a fantastic character. And he was such a fun and gleefully evil character to watch.

For me, having a male character that’s was so goddamn fun and enjoyable mattered far more than whether or not he was good or bad, morality speaking.

Unfortunately, the movie wasted his character at the end.

So, whether or not you agree or disagree that this move hates men.

I would say that having at least one male character who wasn’t a bad guy or at the very least as good as the main characters would’ve helped the movie, given how it’s done so far.

If the movie had done amazing or met expectation, I would say you might have a different argument.

Conclusion

There could’ve been many reasons why BOP did less than great at the Box Office (to put it nicely). Some of the reasons could’ve been the main reason or not the reason at all, but most likely it’s a combination of several different factors.

However, if it has a good hold this upcoming weekend, then well the narrative of BOP’s success will change.

And that doesn’t seem impossible for it.

Despite some vocal negativity and it not being everyone’s favorite, Birds of Prey overall got a postive reaction from a lot of the people who saw it. It has done well with audiences and critics and while not a guarantee of anything, that’s something.

6.7 out of 10 on IMDB.

83% and now 80% on Rotten Tomatoes.

B+ Cinema Score.

Google says 83% of its users like it.

Google Audience’s score is 3.7 out of 5.

60% on Metacritic

So while not the most amazing reviews of all time, they are not overtly bad and even some of them are decently strong.

The real questions is BOP capable of expanding on the moviegoers who liked and saw it.

BOP needs a good hold this upcoming weekend in its box-office numbers.

Basically movies that drop 60% or higher from their opening weekend to their second weekend, show that said movies are not going to do well (box office wise) and that they have no legs to continue on (not likely to make a lot of money in theatres).

They simply didn’t have a good hold.

Blockbusters are a bit of a different story, as most have a drop rate of 60% or higher, but that’s because so many people went to see it the opening weekend (they’re front-loaded films).

Also, if your movie made 100+ million (domestically) it’s first weekend, well your movie is likely going to be just fine. Actually, that depends on how much the movie cost to make and what were the expectations for it, but you get my point.

Birds of Prey did not have a Blockbuster opening, so a drop of 60% or higher would be awful for it and the movie will truly be dead in the water.

Second Weekend Total: $13 mil or less would be bad to very bad (60% drop)

Less than 59% is (technically) okay to even good.

Second Weekend Total: $15 million (55% drop) not great, but certainly better than awful. And I think people could spin this to being good or bad result.

Less than 50% is very good.

Second Weekend Total: Around 18.5 million (45%) would be very good.

Less than 40% pretty darn great and an excellent hold.

Second Weekend total: Around $21 mil (35%) would honestly be so good for this movie, I don’t know how likely that is to be honest.

Birds of Prey’s hold for its second weekend, could easily make or break this movie.

Of course, while the first two weekends of a movie are important, a movie’s final box office total matters just as much, if not more.

BOP cost $85-100 mil (not including marketing). So to find out what the movie would have to make to earn it’s money back for the studio. We are going to do a bit of movie math.

I am going to say the budget cost $100 Mil (to be on the safe side) and since marketing budgets are not public information, we need to guess that element.

To figure the marketing budget we just need to cut the production budget in half to make a safe assumption for the marketing budget (a good rule to follow for any film).

Birds of Prey cost $150 Million to make. ($100 Production + $50 Marketing)

It would have to make $300 million to make its money back. I say $300 not $150, because theatres get half of that money. So even if it make $150 Million, the studio is only seeing half of that.

That’s the simple version of that, as technically there are more complications to consider, but were not going into that.

Whether or not the second weekend is a good hold or not, if Birds of Prey makes $300 million in its box office, it has made its money back and was not a loss for the studio.

That doesn’t mean it’s a success, but salvaged its theatrical run.

Now of course, just because a movie doesn’t do well at the Box Office doesn’t mean it’s a bad movie.

That’s always important to remember. Especially, if you liked the film.

And while the Box Office is a very good indicator of a film’s success and its future (sequels and franchise), there is also the factor of the Ancillary market (non-theatrical markets for feature films) this includes streaming, renting, television, airlines/hotels and so on.

So, a movie like BOP if it does badly Box Office wise can always find a second life in the ancillary market world.

And the sad truth is that Female-Centric movies do have a harder road to go down. If a male-centric movie does badly, no one’s take away is going to be that movies heavily featuring men are box office poison.

And yet, unfairly so, that can easily become the take away for this movie. There is simply more pressure when a female-centric film does badly.

And I think female-centric movies that are just okay, don’t invite in a lot of success either. Female driven movies simply have to be more than just okay and while that’s not fair, it’s true.

And there are going to be men (and probably some women) who don’t want to see a movie because they think it is too female focus or too feminist and that can always hurt a movie.

But the good news is while some of those people have loud voices, they are rarely the majority of people.

I think I’ve lost my point.

Basically, BOP did not do well in its opening debut and there could be many reasons behind that, but there is always a chance it can salvage itself (if not do very well) in its second weekend as well as in its overall run in theatres and out of theatres.

#Harley Quinn: Birds of Prey #Birds of Prey #BOP #birds of prey and the fantabulous emancipation of one harley quinn #Harley Quinn #Harley Quinn Movie #Box office

0 notes