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pluviophile-bookworm · 3 years

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High School Musical: The Musical: The Series: The Rewatch pt.3

Ok, full disclosure: I should not be doing this right now. But I've been thinking about it since yesterday and, well, I reckon I can go over 1x4 and 5, and then move on to my actual work. So here we are. I'm really, really excited for these two, so without further ado, I'll dive right into:

1x4: It's hard to believe that I couldn't see... the majority of what happens in this episode when I first watched it

Why is Nini such a pro at making a scene with whoever her current boyfriend is in the middle of a public place? I mean, I get it that she's upset about EJ going through her phone — who wouldn't be — but maybe - and this is just a friendly suggestion — she could try and discuss that in private, not start a shouting match within view of all their classmates. Just saying.

'Ricky would never steal my phone' — well, perhaps not, but he's not quite above deleting stuff from it, either... I wonder if whoever is writing this show knows that there are many other ways to make a relationship unhealthy... it's not funny anymore. Just repetitive.

Ahhh Natalie and her emotional support hamster! At least there's one good thing about this scene.

Sure, Ricky, blame Big Red for the fact that you misplace your stuff... a very nice best friend he's got, indeed.

Gosh, everything is so awkward and there is just so much tension all over the place — Ricky's parents, then EJ and Nini, and then Carlos just being oblivious to the fact that they just broke up... you know, that last part just made me laugh. And then Ricky's reaction to his parents legally separating just broke my heart. That boy's been through too much.

Big Red being completely clueless about theatre terms is super funny and endearing, but let me just put myself in his shoes for a sec. He's followed his best friend into a badly thought-out scheme to get back together with his ex, got dragged into joining the crew, and is now expected to know what everything is. I would not put up with that... ok, who are we kidding, I'm a massive pushover and would put up with anything, but my point is... he shouldn't have to. At least people are doing the bare minimum to help him learn and nobody's laughed at him for not knowing. That's the good thing about this crew.

Ok, so I have posted about my thoughts of their take on What I've Been Looking For before, back when the episode was brand new, so I won't go into detail about that. In short, I think they've got the arrangement all wrong considering that it is a plot point in the original movie, but... the execution is funny. The scene is about Nini and EJ's post-breakup tension and it shows. I just kind of wish now Miss Jenn had pulled Nini out and put Gina in, even just for this rehearsal — and I might or might not be saying this as a Portwell shipper.

Miss Jenn is done with the students' personal drama and honestly, I'm right behind her. These kids are being completely unprofessional — and well, I realise that we can't expect them to be professional at this stage, but... they could at least try to concentrate on rehearsal and not their personal lives for a second.

Ricky hugging a cushion is my spirit animal. That's it, that's the comment.

Ahhh the tension between EJ and Gina though... 'around here seniors don't follow sophomores' — well, we'll see how it goes, Mr. Senior.

What gives Nini the right to shout at strangers about their relationship? I am honestly so frustrated with her these days. Wonder why I never was during season 1. The reasons are all there.

'He loves you' — yeah, like a little sister, he does. Also, Ash is so precious, always trying to see the good in other people. EJ 1.0 is so lucky he had her as an example.

Ok, I'm not going to go into what an amazing best friend Big Red is because we all know that (plus I'm saving it for a certain scene in 1x5), but this must be so hard for him. I mean, he's trying his absolute best to help Ricky feel better and distract him from his problems, and Ricky is turning everything down. I mean, I guess I understand where he's coming from too, but I'm unable to look at things through the lead-centric lens alone anymore. I'm more aware of non-lead characters now (some more so than others) and this is putting a whole new spin on my perception of everything that happens.

I've got no idea how Big Red can sleep with all this noise, though. I could never. But to each their own.

'perfect on paper' — that's EJ 1.0 to a T. I've got to give Nini that.

Ricky wearing the pride t-shirt... we love to see it.

See, this is why I keep forgetting why I ever shipped Rini and then remembering again... their chemistry is just so on-again-off-again, and here it's definitely present, but I just need a couple with consistent chemistry, you know. Hey, isn't that kind of what All I Want is about? Kind of. I don't know. I've been unable to listen to that song ever since it got big irl. I have this... problem with media that becomes popular and mainstream... I mean, I never hold a grudge against things just for being popular, but I just... relate to underrated stuff much easier. Not because it's underrated, but it just so happens that nearly everything I like and relate to is underrated in some capacity. Even HSMTMTS itself — it's practically unheard of here in Bulgaria, so I would not have found it if I hadn't been looking for it specifically. Ok, this comment got derailed several times. I guess I'll just stop here and move right on to 1x5 at this point.

1x5: A bedazzled tablecloth, a perfectly balanced unicycle and bad reception at the barn... not the perfect ingredients, but they can still... Work This Out

'Miss Jenn says that's a life in the arts... well, that and almost constant unemployment' — alright, I know this line is not supposed to be funny, and that it's a painful reality for a lot of people, but... maybe it's the delivery. I just laugh every time.

See, this is what I mean when I say I want to see consistent chemistry — Seblos have it. I mean, I really don't want to jinx things, but... they do.

Big Red seems to be in a more... outspoken mood today, I guess you could say. Too bad Ricky is still shutting everything he says down. Seriously, Big Red and Seb should start a club for people who try their best to be there for their loved ones and still keep being shushed.

I might be super frustrated with nearly everything Nini says and does (can somebody please tell me why that is?), but... flushing her dress down the toilet? Major mood.

Listen, I love Miss Jenn and that she's close to her students, but... emerging from a toilet cubicle and inviting herself to Kourtney and Nini's girls' night was... Will Shuester level of questionable.

Ricky being the mature one about his parents separation is... I mean, it's admirable, but how did he move past the impending depression of last episode and towards being the one who tells his dad to get up and move on? Well, I mean, good for him. But I think the issue is far from buried yet.

'Friend of the year'? Ricky? I don't think so. First of all, if he were, he'd know that Big Red does not have two left feet. Wasn't it you, Ricky, who was stumbling over the steps in HSM a couple of weeks ago? You're one to talk. Plus Big Red's been listening and trying to help while you've just been spouting off about your personal problems for... how long has it been now? I get it, Ricky has issues that he needs to work through, but he's almost legally blind in both eyes when it comes to Big Red.

Ok, but Ricky is the epitome of 'cannot solve his own problems but has a suggestion on how everybody else should solve theirs' in this episode. Maybe take a step back and listen to your own advice?

'My parents think I'm bonding with the livestock' — I've got no idea why I find this line so funny, but I do. And I've got so much love for this entire scene. Carlos' reaction to Seb's response to his invitation is just... the most adorable thing ever! My heart might just burst. Especially given what we're about to go through tomorrow in 2x10... I am. Not. Ready.

The entire karaoke scene just reminds me of... pretty much every extended family reunion on my mum's side. Her cousins love karaoke and are also completely tone-deaf. I love it that they're able to have fun with it, but my ears are still recovering from my great aunt's birthday party two years ago.

'When did you become Nini?' — Why does Mr. Mazzara know so much about his students' dating lives? I mean, Miss Jenn does, too, but he doesn't strike me as someone as invested in them as her. Idk, it just struck me as kind of weird.

'I didn't agree to photos' — please, EJ, I'm sure you'll want memories from your first fake-dating gig with Gina... once you're no longer fake-dating, you know. Boy, these two are going to have stories to tell to their grandchildren.

I've said some stuff about Nini, but... 'a bedazzled tablecloth' is the funniest description I've heard for Gina's homecoming dress.

'Maybe it's not actually about you at all.' Yeah, you tell him, Reddy! Ricky needs to get over himself.

The way Big Red sniffs out the drama, though... I was not-so-randomly reminded of that moment in 2x9 where Seb was like Carlos. and Big Red was like, 'Are you guys fighting?'...

Big Red doing a comedic lip-reading of Gina and EJ's dramatic scene is absolutely hilarious. I might or might not have sold my heart and soul to him after seeing that scene for the first time. But I just remembered how he said earlier that maybe he can't read lips and that just makes this 100% funnier — he was basically like a child who can't read yet making up a story based on the pictures in a book, and I mean it in the best way possible. He's a theatre dark horse, this one, and they should all be intimidated — or inspired, whatever they choose — by his hidden talents. Gosh, I love this guy. But can you blame me?

'You think I'm actually going to confide in you?' — Absolutely. You can't bully someone from your position of authority over them and then act like you're their friend. I do know now that Mr. Mazzara has hidden depths, but he had no right to be as rude to Carlos as he was in 1x3. He was right about one thing, though — Carlos doesn't need a dance partner to dance.

Ricky saying he was going to apologise to Gina and counting that as an apology is giving me major TJ/ Buffy flashbacks. I wonder why that is... * sarcasm *

Nini feeling like a fraud makes me actually sympathise with her for a second. But I feel like Nini's flaw of defining herself through boys and Ricky in particular has been addressed one time too many now, since it was first addressed here in this episode. If they make her and Ricky get back together again in season 2, I will riot. [side note: I feel like the Born to Be Brave scene says a lot about both Rini and Seblos as couples. Nini and Carlos both feel, in the moments leading up to the song, like they are incomplete without their partners. Ricky, too, has built his personality entirely around Nini at that time (and is still not completely over that in s2). And then the song comes in to remind them that they don't need a partner to be happy. I'm just thinking of Big Red's 'perfectly balanced unicycle' comment from the promotional materials, and of how he and Ashlyn, even when they're dating in s2, are never portrayed as being incomplete without each other. I guess there's a reason why they're the Beta Couple of the show — their relationship drama is nearly non-existent, and when it does exist, it's just caused by them caring too much about each other. Every other couple on the show should learn from them.]

Everybody supporting Carlos during the Born to Be Brave number just warms my heart so much... I am actually crying real tears. And then the end, when Seb finally shows up, right in time for the slow dance... I have a lot of feelings about this scene.

Seblos' dialogue here still kind of makes me cringe a little... but like, in a good way.

Yikes... Miss Jenn's getting into trouble... I mean, it was bound to happen sooner or later. But she's lucky she's had enough time with her students for them to love her enough to fight for her. Still, this is a topic for another episode, and so I won't expand on it in this post.

Well, that's it. That was 1x4 and 5. Those were pretty much my favourite episodes when season 1 was airing. And I can definitely see why, even if my views on some things have changed due to stuff that happens later. But, as I constantly say, that's what rewatches are for. In other words, 'once more, with feeling this time' as my choir director used to say.

#hsmtmts #hsmtmts: the rewatch #nini salazar-roberts #ricky bowen #gina porter #ej caswell #ashlyn caswell #ashlyn moon caswell #big red redonovich #carlos rodriguez #seb matthew smith #kourtney greene #hsmtmts miss jenn #hsmtmts mr mazzara #rini #seblos #redlyn #portwell #jnk

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kdramafeels · 4 years

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People are allowed to have their own opinions and interpretations of fictional media, and IOTNBO is just a tv show, so there’s no need to get too heated over it.

But on the other hand, the vilifying of Sang-tae because of what happened at the end of episode 9 really doesn’t sit right with me. You can simultaneously think that Kang-tae’s feelings and his sadness and utter distress over what Sang-tae did is 100% justified and valid while also acknowledging that Sang-tae isn’t a villain for having a meltdown. The fact that some people seem to ignore Sang-tae’s autism in favor of defending Kang-tae actually makes me really upset.

Earlier in the episode, when the director of the hospital talked about holding things in and then reaching your breaking point—although veiled in a thin layer of humor and talked about in regards to Kang-tae—was clearly foreshadowing Sang-tae’s meltdown. He’s kept these feelings inside him since he was a little kid, thinking that his own brother wanted him dead, and add to that his fear of Kang-tae leaving him for Mun-young and the fact that Kang-tae has been lying to him about a lot of things (+ Mun-young asking him about the time he hated Kang-tae, bringing the incident from their childhood to the forefront of his mind) and the fact that he has autism, and it’s completely understandable why he blew up at Kang-tae. And you absolutely cannot discuss this scene in any meaningful way without acknowledging the fact that Sang-tae is neurodivergent and you certainly cannot disregard that fact to try to justify why you might think he’s a bad person.

And still, you know, I do genuinely believe that people are allowed to have differing opinions, but I just want to implore anyone who might have felt hatred towards Sang-tae after episode 9 to try and see things from his perspective. None of the characters are perfect, none of them are really ”okay” in the sense that they all have mental illnesses and/or trauma, and sometimes those things make them behave or cope in unhealthy ways, but it’s okay to not be okay. This whole show is about having viewers empathise with these characters, to make us understand that they have reasons for behaving in certain ways, and that none of them are evil for the things that are a result of their respective illnesses/disorders/trauma.

And yes, Kang-tae and Sang-tae’s relationship is unhealthy in a lot of ways, but it’s not because one of them is a bad person. They had a hard childhood—Kang-tae felt neglected by his mother and harboured jealousy towards Sang-tae, while also probably feeling guilty over it because he knew that his brother needed more attention and care. And Sang-tae was traumatised by thinking that his brother wanted to kill him, and then their mother died and Sang-tae was even more traumatised, and Kang-tae was a child and he was left to take care of his brother alone and probably couldn’t grieve his mother properly because he needed to make sure his brother was okay and and and.

Their whole life the two of them have just been suffering, and they’ve been keeping things inside and not communicating and it is unhealthy but neither of them is bad, their relationship is just complex. And understanding complex people and complex relationships is exactly the point of this whole show, and if you still don’t get that and think that Sang-tae is a villain and completely irredeemable for what he did, then I don’t know what show you’ve been watching but it certainly isn’t the same one I’ve been watching.

#this became a little ranty towards the end #sorry about that #and just to reiterate #you’re allowed to have your own opinion #this one’s just mine #kdrama #kim soo hyun #seo ye ji #psycho but it's okay #it's okay to not be okay

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chanel5designer · 3 years

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Macgyver fandom thoughts

Number 1. Okay everyone. Let’s take a nice deep relaxing breath and let go of the strain of MacGyver being renewed. I get you’re all worried about ratings. In the first few years of a show they significantly affect whether a show gets canceled or not. HOWEVER, once a series gets close to the 100 episode mark, rating become far less important. Why does the 100 episode mark matter? That’s typically when the show becomes eligible for syndication. Syndication means the show can be packaged up and the reruns sold to other networks for a 🛥 load of 💵. MacGyver ends season 5 at 94 episodes. The execs aren’t going to cancel a show that’s 6 episodes away from syndication. They like 💵 too much for that. So please don’t stress over whether or not it will be renewed. It’s gonna happen. They’ve put too much work and 💵 into changing the show runners to not to seek a return on their investment.

Number 2. Watching tv shows and not letting the writers get to you is an art and a choice. I’ve been shipping since JAG. You think five years with MacGyver is hard? Imagine shipping for a decade and only getting a muted payoff in the series finale. 👀👀👀 That was back in the day when you couldn’t binge watch a series at the time 🦖. You had to watch live or record on VHS. That’s not to minimize your pain or say you can’t freak out. All of that are valid choices. But it doesn’t have to be so crazy making. Yes, I hear and feel your frustration. I too want #MacRiley together yesterday, but that’s not how TV works, especially with OTPs. They drag that out as long as they can because they know it’s a big portion of what the audience invests in when they watch a show in order for the show to survive. Plot that effectively drives the characters development - as we’ve seen in 5x10 and 5x11 - is much more rewarding than watching a show that focused more on the action and stunts than developing its characters. Action and stunts help, but are secondary in long term audience engagement. You either want the audience to love, hate, or love to hate the characters on the screen. Audience apathy is the death knell for TV shows.

The MacGyver writers have been carefully crafting Mac and Riley’s relationship since 1x01 when the sparks flew off of the scene when Mac interviewed Riley to figure out how to get past Nikki’s firewalls. They’ve been dropping hints about it since 1x02 when Mac comments to Jack that Riley is the healthiest relationship either will have w/ a woman. That still holds true today. They’ve been very deliberate in building a rock solid friendship layered with mutual respect and implicit trust in each other. Now everything is shifting because both are aware that there are more than feelings of friendship between them. It will impact their relationship moving forward. You can’t unring that bell once it’s been rung.

Mac and Riley have figure out how to work together now that that Riley’s feelings are out in the open. It’s not as simple as it seems. This decision impacts them personally and professionally. Riley needs, wants and deserves to have more in her life than her work. She wants to make a positive difference and won’t be solely defined based on who she’s in relationship with. Mac needs to prove to Riley that they can make it work, that the foundation of mutual respect, implicit trust and deep friendship is strong enough to weather their job at the Phoenix. Distractions, even good ones, are dangerous in Mac and Riley’s line of work.

That’s why I was so frustrated at Mac and Desi in season 4. Their sniping, bickering, and general unpleasantness put the team at risk. People got hurt - not physically but emotionally. Riley got hurt. Having to carry that weight of watching the man you love in a unhealthy relationship couldn’t have been easy. Bozer lost his best friend. The team’s trust was shattered and still isn’t fully repaired.

Regardless of Riley or even Mac’s feeling for Riley, Mac needs to work on what he wants in life and determine if Desi is the right fit. We know she isn’t, but until he figures that out don’t be surprised if we get more Mac Desi not less. You don’t have to like it, but when you understand how tv show plots work, it can remove some of that emotional drama that we can get easily caught up in. Just remember in life and tv shows, you need more than bbq chips, adrenaline and sex to make a healthy marriage, and so do Mac and Desi. They both deserve better than that. They both deserve to be in happy, healthy relationships, even if it’s not with each other.

At the end of the day, tv shows are just entertainment. That’s not to say they don’t have value, but in the grand scheme of things, they aren’t that important. Keeping yourself and your family safe, making money, taking care of your mental and physical health, investing time in healthy family and friends are so much more important. The angst of your favorite show is not actual life and death. I know it may feel that way, but it’s not. There are worse things in life than it taking a few more episodes or seasons to see the outcome you’ve been watching the show for. I am going to enjoy the ride even when I don’t agree with the decisions the writers or characters make. I’ve been doing that for more than 25 years. At the end of the day, I too deserve to enjoy the life I have and continue to use the gifts I’ve been given to help others. So do you.

@refinedbuffoonery @chartreuseblueandyellow @macrileyedits

#macgyver cbs #macriley #mac and riley #macgyverrenewal2021

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moonwaif · 3 years

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also for the ask game, if you accept characters from shl: the scorpion king, xie'er

HECK YEAH I accept characters from SHL!! But keep in mind that I am watching the weekly YouTube releases. Anything beyond that, I have only gleaned from spoilers and previews, so there may be things I don’t know about him yet.

Thanks for asking! :D

Xie Wang

How I feel about this character: I like him a lot lol. Every time he is in a scene I am paying 100% attention. I worry that the fandom will infantilize him though, because he can behave very demurely and politely. At the same time, he’s sharp as a blade and extremely capable. I love his pastel blue outfit.

All the people I ship romantically with this character: Xie Wang x Therapy. I don’t really ship him with anyone in SHL. Whatever toxic, unhealthy thing he has going on with Zhao Jing is compelling from a narrative perspective, but it’s a hurtful relationship that I want to see Xie’er get out of. I’ve been pondering some CQL crossover ships for him, though. I’ve got some headcanons typed out for Xie Wang/Lan Xichen (a.k.a. we’ve both been deceived by people we trusted + Lan Xichen can have another murder husband as a treat), Xie Wang/Nie Huaisang (a.k.a. shady murder husbands plot together and live happily ever after), and Xie Wang/Mo Xuanyu (a.k.a. the “let’s get revenge on all the people who have wronged us” husbands).

My non-romantic OTP for this character: I liked his conversation with Qian Qiao. There was an understanding between them that was interesting and would be worth exploring. (Lol god I hope he doesn’t kill her.)

My unpopular opinion about this character: Ummmm. I guess just that I think he is more capable and not as soft and defenseless as some viewers believe. He behaves in a soft way as a choice, he demurs as a choice. Like there might be other reasons compelling him (also he is being deceived and manipulated and is just stuck in an unequal power dynamic), but I think like a scorpion, he can easily sting those who have wronged him. He can also sting those who haven’t really done anything bad per se, but who he perceives to have wronged him (like Zhao Jing’s other wards).

One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon: Well the show is not over yet (at least not for me), so many things could still happen. I enjoyed getting to see him with some of the Ghosts and with Du Pusa. He was very intimidating and delegating tasks. At the point where I am in the show, I’ve seen more scenes where he is taking orders or pandering to Zhao Jing. I would like to see more of him being the boss.

GIVE ME A CHARACTER and I’ll break their ass down

#xie wang #xie'er #scorpion #shl #word of honor #ask #anon #zhao jing #toxic relationship mention #idk lol

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murphystartedthefire · 4 years

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Okay it’s been some time, I’ve had some days,

MEMORI FINALE DISCOURSE ANONS LET’S GO

My feelings are mixed! They really are. My overwhelming finale reaction was “huh, I guess that wasn’t as bad as it could’ve been” followed by a long, numb, aching feeling in my chest, followed by peace, followed by “they can still grow babies on Bardo though, can’t they?” (that’s a side conversation)

So I’m not telling ANYONE else how to feel, because I’m still sorting my own feelings out. I certainly appreciate that this is a hard ending to swallow for Murphy fans who don’t like Memori. Remember, even for you it’s not as bad as it could’ve been since he’s alive and happy and with everyone else at the end!! But the way he got there basically by accident and was otherwise 100% gonna choose death over living without Emori as the final culmination of his story... not everybody’s gonna find that super romantic and beautiful, especially if you’ve felt for seasons that Murphy’s Epic Love For Emori is not your favorite thing about his character, or you actively think their relationship is unhealthy, toxic, etc.

(I promise I’m only gonna yell SHE’S MADE THAT CHOICE TO SACRIFICE HERSELF AND DIE WITH HIM TOO once. I’ll just say it once. I needed to get it out of my system, it’s my tumblr. I know it’s not the same because they survived all those situations. Then again they also, incredibly, survived this one.)

As someone who does love Murphy’s Epic Love For Emori? And expected it to play a big role in the end of the show, but never imagined it happening like this? Yeah, it got me. It made me cry. It’s making me cry now.

Murphy and Emori are THE love story of “The 100″ for me, the way normal(?) shippers felt about Bellarke or Clexa. Without them I wouldn’t have made this sideblog or ever engaged with this fandom. Without them I would have stopped watching the show pretty early in season 6, if not earlier. I’m not going to act like this conclusion to their arc wasn’t *extremely validating* and emotional for me.

If I have something to criticize about this ending (pre-transcendence epilogue), it’s really a problem that was built up long before the finale and especially in this season. I wish they weren’t so isolated. I wish Emori wasn’t basically the only thing Murphy valued or made his life worth living, ‘cause that was never fair to either of them. I wish their love had made them stronger and more connected to others, instead of constantly just anchored to each other, dead or alive.

“The 100″ might’ve been better overall -- certainly more watchable for me -- if they were part of it and not on a whole other show sometimes. On the other hand, my lizard brain only wants to see them together, so being the center of each other’s world to the very end, to the point where they’re SHARING ONE UNCONSCIOUS BODY, only makes me ship them harder. It’s a double-edged sword.

The whole mind drive thing... you don’t have to think it was the right choice or the healthy choice, even. You just have to get that it was Murphy’s choice, and completely on brand for him. He never wanted to just ‘survive’ if it meant losing her. It was an insane gesture that he committed to with every fibre of his being.

Look, once the mind drive was in Murphy’s head -- once Emori was dead, honestly -- there was no “good” way for it to end. I felt that viscerally as I was watching the episode. (Yes, yes, pre-epilogue, I was proven wrong by magic and aliens.) Murphy could stay in there and die with her, or Emori could push him out and convince him to let her go. He’d still get to say his last goodbyes with her, but she could more firmly insist he needs to move on -- I briefly wondered if that’s how the scene would end.

But I wouldn't BELIEVE Murphy moving on and letting go. I've said in like 20 different posts that the ending I wanted LEAST was for Emori to be killed and shatter Murphy’s soul and force him to be alone. (Not least because holy hell I didn’t want to watch a WOC violently fridged for his survival and character growth.) The second-worst ending to me would be him dying and her surviving.

It wouldn’t work without another full season (at least!) of Murphy coming to terms with Emori's death and finding SOME way to cope and be happy again, which of course in the real world I’d think was possible. In the world of fiction, we didn’t have time for that, and to rush him to the Acceptance stage of grief would be completely unearned.

Seeing Emori all bloody and contorted and glassy-eyed on that table while Murphy falls apart was... so, so fucking awful in a way that’s going to haunt me for a long time. I made a gif set with ONE shot of her in it, and it was somehow the LEAST upsetting one and still like the worst thing I’ve ever put on my blog. It didn’t need to be as ugly and graphic as it was. It did not need to linger on her body that way. But I think *why* they made it like that, besides sadism and shock value, is so even the audience felt his need to undo it and not have that be our last memory of her either.

So yeah... on a gut level, on a story level, it was so satisfying IMO. The goddamn tear of relief and fulfillment falling down his face when he’s holding her again, and he never has to let her go for the rest of his short life. The way that every other Memori scene has led to this. I’ll love you forever, even if we die today. To the anon who asked if you’re a bad person for liking it? You’re a human person responding in the intended way to a love story!!

I like a whole lot of tropes in fictional romances that aren't great or admirable in reality. Is this particular form of attempted “suicide” -- where doing it LITERALLY allowed him to reach her in the mindspace and see the light in her eyes again and spend their last hours/days together in a happy place -- likely to spawn any copycat behavior or ideation? I doubt it, certainly not as much as other triggery crap they’ve done on this show. I'm willing to not worry too hard about whether Memori are Setting a Good Example for how people should react to a loved one's death, and instead be like "Hell yeah those two deserved to go out like Romeo & Juliet, and then be brought back to life just as a bonus anyway.”

It's not REALISM and should not be TREATED as realism, but it was a perfect end to an iconic TV romance where they never could live without each other. That’s where I stand on it right now.

#john murphy #emori #dailymemori #memori #the 100 #the 100 finale #the 100 s7 #meta

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not-poignant · 3 years

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Hi Pia! I'm a huge fan of your work and deeply enjoying FFS rn, it really shows the love and care you've put into this world and characters and it's an amazing read 🥰🧡

Idk if you've actually answered this question before or if it's a bit too much? So feel free to skip it. Do you have any advice on how to write a therapist and sessions with them? And to go along with that, a therapist&patient relationship that doesn't feel inauthentic but that's a healthy one?

I've had to visit both psychiatrists and psychologists a couple of times along my life, which has almost always been a positive experience to me, but when I get down to business and want to write a character going to therapy, I fall into a bunch of the psychoanalytic clichés US films have hammered us down with, even if I'm not from an Anglophile country!

Thanks a bunch in advance!! Ilu, have a nice start of the year🧡✨

Hiya anon!

I have a few thoughts about writing therapy sessions so I’m just going to put them down in no particular order.

Firstly, I don’t actually think it’s always a good idea to write therapy in stories, and a lot of the time I avoid writing it even when a character is actively seeing a therapist. This is particularly true in The Wind that Cuts the Night where all we see of Alex and his therapist are snippets, and nothing more than that, because therapy sessions would slow down the pacing, focus and value of the story.

Where possible, characters don’t see therapists, but talk to people in a way that is therapeutic, usually with love interests or members of the ensemble cast (Augus and Fenwrel in The Court of Five Thrones, Jack and Eva in The Golden Age that Never Was, Jack and North in From the Darkness We Rise/Into Shadows We Fall, Cullen and Cassandra, Cullen and Bull in Stuck on the Puzzle). All of those characters need therapy, but writing therapy sessions tends to slow down the pace of a fic pretty dramatically, and even I had misgivings about writing Efnisien’s sessions with Dr Gary at first because I’m acutely aware of the fact that:

1. Therapy sessions can be draggy and boring 2. They often take away important emotional realisations from other characters, ruining potential hurt/comfort and character relationship development moments with your actual cast / love interests 3. Fiction is meant to be fiction, not reality. 4. A lot of therapy sessions are actually not that interesting to sit in or write or observe, which is why writers do often find themselves falling into certain cliches while writing them to make them more interesting. Even I cut out huge chunks of sessions to get to the more interesting parts, lol. 5. You can write a character going to therapy without writing the therapy. You can just choose to have the character remember bits and pieces of the session later as it’s relevant to their life. 6. Therapy is different for everyone, and some readers (myself included) don’t enjoy reading it when the therapy is a kind that doesn’t resonate or feel right.

So you really need to ask yourself why you want to write therapy specifically, because a lot of the time it gets boring or - as you point out - falls into cliched territory. Writing a character going to a doctor a lot in detail for regular injections is boring. Writing them thinking about how they have to do this in brief while their love interest is sympathetic to them getting those injections is more interesting. Writing a character suffering from an illness that they need regular injections for, with their love interest comforting them? Interesting.

Falling Falling Stars is a unique fic in that Efnisien has no one before he meets Arden, except for Dr Gary and Gwyn. If you’re writing an FFS style fic, writing therapy sessions might be appropriate. It might be worth really thinking about the kind of fics you want to write, why you want to write therapy, how that will affect your pacing, etc.

If you’re still dead set on writing therapy sessions, then I have some suggestions re: writing more realistic/healthy therapy and how to find that knowledge yourself, and I don’t really know how to shorthand some of it:

1. Get books on therapy that are designed for the therapist. These are often expensive, but sometimes libraries stock them - and university libraries in particular will often have photocopy abilities (or you can just photograph the pages you need) because these books look at how sessions should be structured. Books with case studies are ideal, since they often show dialogue chains between the client and therapist. Books that obviously deal with the mental illnesses you’re planning on writing about are the most ideal.

2. With a view to this, learn about different therapeutic modalities (for example are you trying to write psychology or psychoanalysis or both? Are you writing social work? Are you writing cognitive behavioural therapy, dialectical behavioural therapy, expressive therapies, narrative therapy, transcendental therapy?) Be aware that different modalities have different session structures and learn what they are. Wikipedia is your friend, but your closest friend will be actually acquiring textbooks on the subject. This is a pretty significant financial barrier at times, I’ve been collecting books like this on psychology since like 1997.

3. Learn about your character’s mental instabilities that require them to go to a therapist and then look up the most recommended forms of therapy for your character’s specific issues. Will they suit your character? Why/why not? Will they have a therapist who realises and switches modality if it doesn’t suit? Or will they be lucky and find someone who helps them straight away?

4. All therapy sessions have a structure to them. And therapy often has a narrative arc through the course of therapy over many sessions. They should generally have the attempt at a beginning (greeting / setting up the problem to be discussed), middle (highlighting the source of conflict or inner conflict) and end (helping the client to focus on less stressful things, possible homework assigned, and potentially talking about future work/sessions). Learn this structure. Even if you’re not writing the whole session, you need to know where in the session you’re writing, beginning/middle/end will be different tonally. Structures will be different per therapeutic modality, and a therapist that knows many different modalities (like Dr Gary) will often be using slightly different structures each time depending on the character’s mood/issue.

5. In a healthy therapist/client relationship there will be the ability to discuss boundaries, grievances and the therapist won’t be revealing much about their personal life at all (unless anecdotally it’s super relevant and even then it will be deliberately vague). This is one of those things that will - in many cases - make for more boring sessions on the page, depending on the ‘client.’ For example, if you’re writing someone seeing a therapist for the first time, it might realistically take months or years before they start showing progress or trust. That’s not interesting (there’s a reason ‘therapy fiction’ isn’t a genre), so of course it’s tempting to shortcut into more dramatic moments.

I would say if you’re finding yourself leaning towards more cliched or dramatic forms of writing re: therapy, your writing brain may sense that the entire scene/s may not be suited to the story, and is trying to find a way to make them more interesting to yourself and the reader. If that’s not the case, then a lot more research is needed! It’s time to sink many hours into actually understanding what you’re trying to write. This doesn’t matter as much if you’re writing unrealistic or unhealthy therapy, but it’s 100% necessary when you’re trying to write healthier therapy depictions.***

Also a couple of sessions of experience is a start, but you might want to watch or find a way to watch more therapy sessions, because you’ve missed out on experiencing longer arcs, different modalities etc. (This is where my hands on experience with 19 therapists since 1995 is actually really helpful, lmao - I’ve had close to like 800~ sessions by now, with good and bad therapists; I cannot pretend that hasn’t given me a knowledge base that most people don’t share). You can still learn that stuff via research, MedCircle on Youtube is a good place to start, since it offers 30 minute snapshots on what CBT and DBT sessions will look like etc. and has some great playlists.

Most fics I’ve read don’t do a great job of depicting therapy, but the Babes!verse series by @rynfinity has probably some of the most realistic and still really interesting sessions I’ve read as an ongoing arc. The series is long, because it needs to be re: what it’s dealing with, but it’s great, and I definitely recommend looking at another example of how an author tackles these sorts of scenes. Out of the Mouths of Babes / The March of the Damned are the two intertwined series.

I apologise if this sounds discouraging overall, or daunting, but I just want to stress there’s a reason that I’m often not writing therapy in my writing, as anything more than the occasional scene with a non-therapist, or snapshots that are reflected on and that’s it. Falling Falling Stars is the exception to the rule, and unless you’re writing an exception to the rule as well, it’s really worth reflecting on the first six points I wrote - it’ll save you a fuckton of time and research. And if you go ahead with it, I wish you well! :D

*** Also disclaimer: But I still am writing very indulgent therapy that is not beholden to being either a 100% healthy or 100% realistic depiction. The fact is, real therapy sessions are pretty boring for observers except for maybe ten or twenty minutes in the middle at times.

(ETA: It’s just occurred to me that therapy fiction does exist, esp. in the mass media, but that it is - afaik - all unrealistic, dramatised or unhealthy. But if you want to watch a great show - I highly recommend In Treatment with Gabriel Byrne, just by aware that it is depicting, for the most part, unhealthy dynamics which are more character studies than anything).

#asks and answers #pia on writing #pia on psychology #it's even worth being away that clinical psychologists often frown on psychoanalysts #and psychoanalysts often frown on the rigidity of clinical psychology curriculums lol #dr gary works within both schools and is a bit of a rebel in that sense #anyway yeah like #even i was really wary of writing too much dr gary #and only really gave into it indulgently #when people revealed they were enjoying those scenes and dr gary himself #but like #i would hate him as a therapist #he's pushy and sometimes pretty impatient #even what i write re: therapy #is not necessarily a reflection on what a real life person would experience #in the same circumstances #Anonymous

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falsegoodnight · 3 years

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Hi Ris! First of all, I want to tell you that you are such an incredibly talented author and I enjoy your works so much. I'm curious as to how could you write a lot in short amount of time? I mean, can you explain a bit about how do you plan your fics, if that makes sense? Sorry to bother you, have a nice day❣️

hi!! ahh thank you so much!! i’m so glad you enjoy my fics! <3

so for your question, i got a bit carried away so i’ll be adding a cut so you can read more!

just a quick ramble:

first of all, i just want to say that there’s going to be people that write really quickly and people who take more time to write but that difference doesn’t have any holding over one’s worth as a writer or anything like that! in other words, there’s nothing wrong with taking your time when writing a fic/story so i hope you keep that in mind and don’t be too hard on yourself when you’re struggling! every writer is different - it’s the same as how some writers have tons of ideas and some only get a good idea once in a blue moon or how some writers can write dialogue or a different element of a story easily and others can’t. it’s just a characteristic and not a representation of your success/achievement!!

that little bit is hopefully unneeded but i wanted to include it just in case!!

anyways, even though speed is relative to your own person and it’s different for everyone - there are factors you can control!! and you’re right in that planning is one of them!! if you have a detailed outline (or basis for how the story is going to begin, progress, and then resolve at the end then you’re going to have less struggle when it comes to writing the story because you know what you’re characters are striving towards!! obviously, some writers don’t use outlines and i can’t speak for anyone because this is what’s worked for me but it has helped me a lot so if you haven’t tried an outline before, i’d definitely recommend doing it at least once!

i’ve talked about it before but my outlines tend to be super detailed!! once i get a basic idea of a fic, i like to delve as deep as i can into the characters/plot/world. the first thing i’ll do is type out my idea in full detail so i don’t forget anything important and so i can see it all in print. then i’ll usually make some character profiles for each of the main characters (usually just louis and harry but sometimes i’ll include small ones for side characters!!)

an example format:

louis:

- age:

- job/career: (if they’re in school or it’s a fantasy/paranormal then this could be something like ‘student, english major’ or ‘witch’)

- background/history: (everything important to the story but also a lot that’s not dhjdk)

- positive traits:

- negative traits:

- character growth: (if i want to include character development, i always write that down!!)

then i begin my scene list which is basically a numbered list of every scene that takes place in the story!! it’ll usually start with a beginning scene, maybe a few scenes i know will take place somewhere in the middle, and also the ending scene (which is typically one of the first things i figure out when outlining the story!) and as i get more ideas and dive deeper and deeper into the story, this scene list grows longer and longer! some scenes are more outlined than others depend on how self-explanatory or complicated they are!

it’s also important to note that outlines are fluid, in that you can tweak/change them anytime you want! even when you’re 3/4ths of the way through a story and you decide you don’t like the ending you initially had and have a better idea! i can’t count how many times i’ve changed things in the middle of the story!!

having a super detailed scene list helps me know exactly what’s going to happen in a scene so i can just write it instead of spending time trying to figure out what’s going to happen in this scene while i’m in the middle of writing it!

and if i’m writing a fantastical/paranormal world, then i also always write down every detail of the worldbuilding that i want to include in the story - but also a whole lot of information i don’t end up including! knowing your story and your world is KEY to writing something quickly!!

i could go way more in detail if you wanted but i won’t ramble this time!! if you want more insight into outlining, i’d be happy to do a longer post one day (i already plan on it actually - i’m just lazy haha) but basically, planning has definitely had a huge impact on my writing productivity!

it doesn’t work for everyone though!! so here are some other things that contribute to my productivity:

- finding as much time as possible to write

as a full-time student with a part-time job and other responsibilities and just a life in general, it’s difficult to find time to write! but i try my best to carve out even just ten minutes per day to write and when i get that time, i take advantage of it. i think we all know that there’s time in our days that we usually just let get away from us - whether that means scrolling through social media without actually retaining anything, staring aimlessly at the ceiling, or just sitting around and doing nothing - i’m not saying that’s a bad thing or anything (i do all three all the time) but i am saying that it’s possible to stop yourself from letting that time slip away and instead choose to channel it into getting down a few words! even if you only write eleven words, that’s eleven more than you had before!

it sounds a bit obsessive but here’s what i’ve been doing when i wrote my last few fics: waking up thirty minutes earlier every morning before class so i can start my day by writing (honestly this is one of my favorite things to do because it helps wake me up and also gets me feeling productive when i’m usually just groaning and complaining about exhaustion - ofc not everyone will be the same), staying up late to write on my phone while in bed (again, i have unhealthy sleeping habits so maybe this isn’t a good tip but the point is that i take advantage of free time hdjkdk), and my favorite thing to do to get out words quickly:

- writing sprints

this is honestly one of my favorite things to do whether it’s a ten minute sprint or an hour long one! just setting aside a time dedicated to getting as many words as possible on paper (don’t focus on whether they’re perfect, just write - everything else comes later!) is always beneficial to me!! i do this frequently!!!

setting goals also helps for goal-oriented people like myself!! well, goal-oriented and competitive people such as myself haha. i love a good challenge to reach a certain word count (or even a goal like finishing a certain scene!) so if you’re like me, this could help a lot!

- accountability

this one can relate back to the writing sprint/competition thing if you do a sprint with someone else (super fun!) and keep each other accountable!! you can even just tell someone close to you that you’re aiming for a certain word count in a certain time and then tell them to check in with you! the satisfaction of being able to tell this person that you succeeded rather than didn’t (once again, not that that’s a bad thing!) can be particularly motivating!

- incentives

again, if you’re someone like me who works on reaching goals and reaping rewards, then this could be really beneficial! rewards can be anything from candy (i used to let myself eat a sour patch kid for every 100 words i write and let me tell you, that really helped hdjkd) or letting yourself watch an episode of a show you want to see!! they can be big prizes for smaller chunks of words or small prizes for bigger chunks of words - it doesn’t matter!! just do whatever gets you motivated!!!

also:

- get rid of distractions

i use sites like blocksite to keep myself from getting distracted by things like twitter/tumblr/youtube so i can focus!!! they have things like passwords so you can’t deactivate the block so if you have someone around you that can put in a password to make sure you don’t get tempted, taking advantage of that when you really want to get some work in is always good!

this is also something i do for assignments and other things in day to day life so just a helpful resource in general!

---

yeah so those are my main tips for writing a lot - do keep in mind that i’m naturally ambitious and also that i enjoy (or enjoy the results of) doing all of these things (even the harder ones!!!) but that may not be the same for everyone!! and not everyone writes as much or me, or even wants to in the first place! and that’s fine!

the most important thing to do is to cater to what you want. the goal you’re aiming for, the progress you want to make, etcetera.

at the end of the day, progress is progress - no matter how miniscule it may seem to you!! and also, quality is always better than quantity in my opinion!!!

this is way longer than i intended but i really hope it helps even in the slightest and if anyone else that’s a writer sees this and wants to rb with their own input (or comment!), feel free!! <3

#asks #:)#writing advice #writing tips #my writing tips #to save

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sevensoulmates · 4 years

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Eddie reaction to Abby I found interesting because obviously he never met her but more the fact it was Eddie who told Bobby that he was abby fiaince when he said about working on the outside of the trian because I feel like it was the first time Eddie didn't trust bucks ability to do his job and think clearly(I feel like buck would said about the outside of the trian anyway because he always want to save everyone)

What do you think about eddies reactions to Abby and buck from the train crash, cause personally I feel like even if buck didn't know that Sam was abby finance he would still have tried to save both risking the train falling on him and yet Eddie basically told bobby to try to stop buck

So I’m gonna put these two asks together since they’re pretty similar. Strap in, this is gonna get long and analytical.

First of all, I think the choice to make Eddie be so prominent in these scenes between Buck and Abby was deliberate. There is only one time when Buck and Abby are talking that Eddie is not physically there watching everything. The whole rest of the time Eddie is there in every frame, every shot, and even gets close ups of his reactions.

I think about the choices they make when choosing which characters will be in each scene. Because as we’ve seen before, they are willing to switch out certain characters to change the tone/impact of a scene. For example, we have Hen and Eddie being switched out for Karaoke with Albert, because (in my opinion) the writers felt that having Chim’s best friend Hen be the one singing karaoke with his brother would hurt Chimney MORE than just Eddie singing with Albert. Now the reason I point out switching characters, is because if the overall point of the Abby/Buck reunion was to make the other characters worry specifically about if Buck will continue his work professionally or if he will let his emotions affect him (ie. risking his life), who is the best character to get that reaction from? In my opinion, Bobby. We see it later on, but Bobby is the one who makes the decisions on if Buck can/cannot work as a firefighter any longer. The person Buck needs to prove he can be professional and put his emotions aside to is Bobby. Bobby is the reason we had the entire lawsuit storyline and Bobby is the one who can’t put aside his fatherly feelings for Buck and let him do his job. Their job literally is risking their lives to save people.

So if they wanted the whole emotion vs. professionalism theme to be the main focus of conflict for Buck, in my opinion, the character to bring that out most would be Bobby. And yet Eddie is the one in this scene. I’ve heard people saying it had to be Eddie because he’s the only one who doesn’t know Abby. I kinda disagree mostly because I think if you had let Abby run into Bobby first, we would’ve had a whole new layer of “oh shit this is the woman who broke my adopted son’s heart” AND “Buck is going to act irrationally because Abby’s back”. Bobby would understand that implications of Abby being back on a deeper level than Eddie would (in my opinion given that Eddie never actually met nor saw any interactions between Buck/Abby). So why choose Eddie of all people to be the one who meets Abby first and have him be the one through which we as an audience are latching onto (since we are also the third party observers watching their reunion with an emotional stake).

I think that Eddie was chosen to be the reaction conduit for multiple reasons. 1.) Eddie is Buck’s closest person other than Maddie and Bobby. Buck is a part of Eddie’s immediate family unit, and Eddie (alongside Christopher) is Buck’s person. Just like was stated in 3x16 everyone else has someone outside of work, except Buck, and even though he has Maddie, Maddie has her own person (and now will have a baby to prioritize too). The logical conclusion to who is Buck’s person/people, even without stating it within the episode, is obviously Eddie & Christopher. It’s shown throughout the entirety of this season. Eddie, Christopher and Buck have carved their own little family unit together, even if they don’t outwardly realize it yet. So who is the most at threat if Abby were to re-enter Buck’s life? Eddie. But then we get the information that Abby has a fiance and...

2.) Eddie is witnessing years of bitterness, heartbreak, confusion and betrayal wash over Buck in this moment. Buck has always been Eddie’s #1 support system with everything and now it’s Eddie’s turn to be his. Eddie recognizes that more than this being an emotional vs. professional time, that this is causing tremendous personal pain for Buck. Eddie understands that pain. He knows what it’s like to have a woman you loved come back and have to face that pain head on. But to see that that woman has completely moved on and forgotten about you? It’s a dead ringer back to 3x16 where Buck feels like everyone leaves him for bigger/better things and that he feels he’s not worth staying for. Eddie felt the exact same way with Shannon. Eddie understands Buck’s pain the most in this moment. And that’s why he’s not immediately like “hey, you gonna keep you’re head on straight and be professional about this?” but instead when Buck starts to zone out, Eddie steps in, he becomes the professional Buck needs him to be in that moment. He shields Buck bodily and only leaves when he has to. It just reminds me of when Eddie was mad at Buck for “making things all about him” and yet, in that moment, when Buck could make it about him again, instead Buck shuts down his emotions. It’s only when they’re presented with the choice of Abby’s fiance vs a stranger that it finally gets brought up again.

3.) Eddie and Abby are and have always been parallels of each other. They are/were both single people taking care of a disabled family member (Eddie & Carla’s scenes are the new Abby & Carla scenes). They both moved to escape crippling situations and found their forever families. They’re both strong-willed, cool-headed, good in a crisis, etc. They’re both people who become close to Buck very quickly. And, I’m just going to say it, they’re both the main loves Buck has had over the course of the show. Buck absolutely loves Eddie (even if it might not textually be romantic at the moment) with all his heart as seen by how he reacted to nearly losing him in 3x15, as seen by how hard he fights to be back with his team (with Eddie), how much he gives to be a partner and parental figure to Chris. This is all information we know PRIOR to knowing Abby has a fiance AND that that fiance has two kids who have become like Abby’s own kids. It’s just the most blatant and obvious parallel I’m actually shocked. Abby moved away and met a single father with kids, fell in love with him, became his fiance, and became a surrogate mother to his kids. I just...WHO DOES THAT REMIND US OF, HMM???

4.) Then we get the shift from Abby being a parallel to Eddie, to being a parallel to Buck. Eddie then becomes paralleled to the role of Abby’s fiance. Now it’s not just that Buck is fighting to save Sam because of Abby, but Buck’s fighting to save Sam because Sam is the love of Abby’s life, and they have kids who need them. Does that remind us of how hard Buck worked to make sure Eddie could go home to his son who needs him? Yes, yes, it does. I’ve said it before, but I’ll say it again: Abby’s present is Buck’s future. Abby’s past is Buck’s present. In the scene where Abby and Buck talk post-train crash, everything Abby talks about the person she was and the place she was before leaving, is exactly who Buck is at the moment. Living life solely for the job. Putting work above himself and his relationship. Putting OTHER PEOPLE before himself always. And who Abby is now is someone who found herself, and through that found her fiance and kids who became her family. And we know that that is all Buck wants. He wants to find his people. He wants to find his family (he just doesn’t realize that he literally has it already).

Yes, 100% Buck would’ve tried to save both of them, even if he didn’t know Sam was Abby’s fiance. But yes, knowing who Sam was and knowing Abby was waiting did color his motivations and again that’s why we have Bobby there to be like “here we go again”. Bobby could’ve been the sole voice of reason there. But instead, Eddie (once again) let’s HIS OWN FEELINGS get in the way of being professional. This time it’s Eddie who snaps, tells Bobby it’s because of Abby, and then storms off in a literal vertical train car but I digress. Eddie doesn’t just seem fed up with Buck in that moment, he seems hurt. And as we know an Eddie who feels hurt by Buck is an Eddie who lashes out. He’s hurt (and mad because Eddie Diaz has an unhealthy coping mechanism of getting mad when he gets his feelings hurt) that Buck is so willing to risk his life for someone who broke his heart. That Buck is willing to get himself killed, willing to let himself die and by extension shatter the hearts (and essentially abandon) everyone who loves him (Eddie, Chris, all of the 118, Maddie, etc).

Eddie is mad because Buck is so willing to get himself killed (so willing to be torn from their lives) and for who? A woman who doesn’t love him anymore? A woman who has her own family and will move on with life even if Buck is not in it? No screw that, Eddie tells Bobby in the hopes that Bobby will talk him out of it, but when they just squabble Eddie has to shut that down too. Because Bobby is equally afraid of losing Buck. He’s been proving that all season. It’s the reason Buck has to pull the Athena card to try to get through to Bobby. Because at the end of the day, regardless of their familial feelings for each other, this is their job. And Bobby has to let Buck do it.

Buck actually has a good plan that could work. If Eddie had been the one to suggest this plan, I have no doubt that Bobby (and Buck) would’ve been right behind him. They’d be worried, but they would not question Eddie’s judgement. But because Bobby and Eddie are so invested in Buck emotionally, they don’t want Buck to risk his life even though that’s literally all of their freaking jobs. Now it’s Eddie’s turn and Bobby’s turn to put aside their personal feelings. Put aside their fear of losing Buck. They let him use his proven creativity and intelligence in near-impossible situations, and they let him make the risky save. And in the end, he’s right, and he saves both of them. And this proves that Buck’s heart, and his drive to save people no matter what, the way that he never gives up, makes him a better firefighter--and a better person. And it’s the reason why the people in his life love him so much. So, yes, while I think both Eddie and Bobby doubted Buck in that moment. I think Buck proved that when he is given the chance to prove himself, his head and his heart are the winning combination (this is also why I adore Oliver’s tattoo because it fits Buck’s character so well).

I think the finale was so buddie heavy, and so buddie positive despite there not being anything super concrete about their romantic relationship in the ending moments. I think we’re slowly but surely getting there, and I’m so excited to see it unfold.

#buddie #911 fox #buck x eddie #answer #Anonymous

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skamamoroma · 4 years

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Skam Italia S4: The Hide and Seek Scene

I was asked to write about my favourite scenes from Skam Italia s4 and this one specifically first which is a risk because, so far, I haven’t been able to watch it without crying, to the point where I am 100% sure the music is emotionally coded or I have eventually gone mad.

Anyway, this post was inevitable because if you know me, you know I adore Marti and Nico so much and have written long posts all those months ago that, I guess, this had to be done! And it’s long but it’s me, it was never going to be short! (I type fast)

Before I go through the song... at this point in the season, it’s kind of heartbreaking watching Nico sit there and look at Marti with so much longing and emotion. You can tell he misses him desperately. And Marti? Ah my favourite idiot. We KNOW how upset he is. I think at this point, he is telling himself he’s fine and that he’s drawing a line and he hasn’t got anything left to say to Nico… mainly out of sheer stubbornness. Nico’s lies and the way he tried to hide things clearly hurt and frightened him, triggering worries of loss and being left behind, of not being good enough, of Nico’s past changing what they have, of Nico’s past actions with Maddalena being something that could happen again. Neither of them are NOT understandable. I look at them both and I see the foundation they built back when they first got together and how that can only have strengthened immeasurably because of how long they’ve been together… I am reminded that the look in Nico’s eyes spells out what he told Marti on that balcony - “i’m thinking about the fact that I’m in love with you and I’ve never felt this way before”. Marti isn’t a stop gap or a second best because he couldn’t have Luai… Marti is hugely important to him. Nico adores him and not only that, adores him FOR who Marti is. I think it’s that basis that didn’t once make me feel anxious when episode 7 arrived. I feel I know these characters and their hearts. We know Marti’s so well and know that when he loves you, you’re his family. We know he considers Nico to be that… he left his father and step family behind, reconciling his past anger and walked away towards those he considers his family: his mamma, Gio/Luchino/Elia and Nico… he chose them and he specifically walked towards Nico with so much honesty to tell him he was by his side. The idea that ANY of that could be disrupted and that Nico perhaps isn’t who he thought he was… “somebody that I used to know” - not only an amazing song choice for Nico/Luai but also for Marti/Nico. Marti’s face screamed “I don’t know all of you” when he realised Nico’s past had been hidden from him. Marti’s fear of losing Nico caused him to cut and run and he effectively broke his own heart… but at the same time, Nico didn’t help himself. By trying to do the right thing, he made it worse and I think the bottom line is that eventually Marti felt left behind, felt that Nico’s extended secrecy and lies were a reflection of their relationship…

But he didn’t have all of the facts and his own fear and freak out meant he wasn’t seeing clearly. We know Nico loves Marti with his whole heart not only because he told us but because of that comfort they give off as a couple… it’s just a FACT.

And this is where this clip makes me weepy. Because we know Nico’s past now. We know 3 pretty important things

Nico always felt spoken for and lost in his relationship with Maddalena. He wasn’t trusted, was spoken over, was belitted at times and felt he lost his voice. He was subject to all of that but put up with it. She wasn’t a bad person… their relationship just wasn’t healthy. His extended Last Man metaphor was his own way to ‘escape’ and be with Marti, someone who made him feel safe and listened to and cared for. Marti is his safe space.

Luai wasn’t just a mistaken kiss. He meant something. He may not have meant what Marti means or even close to it but that doesn’t matter. He was SOMETHING and if Nico’s eyes and smile in the piano video are any clue, Nico was so fond of him. That became dark and upsetting and ultimately damaging for both of them and poor Luai. Poor poor soul. Poor Nico for having that so cruelly removed from him, perhaps wondering if he was to blame or if he’d stayed away all would have been fine. It makes sense now why Nico was so unwilling for Marti to see the real him, to give in to what he felt with Marti because, ultimately, Nico internalises. His worries must have been overwhelming. He must have feared that history would repeat or that somehow HE was the one who was toxic… which we know is so untrue.

By meeting Marti, Nico suddenly has this whole group of lovely, fun, ridiculous, warm and inclusive friends who show so much love and support. It is SO TELLING that Nico is still there at Silvia’s birthday party. Nico is NOT simply Marti’s boyfriend. He is a part of their group and they care about him so much too.

Knowing those 3 things is why the song that Ludo chose will FOREVER make me cry the second I hear the words. How he found a song SO perfect for Nico’s story is astounding to me. Every lyric works and I think the only way to talk about this scene is to track it with the lyrics… I suggest listening to it as you read (if you’ve even got this far because IT IS JUST SO PRETTY).

This scene is, if nothing else, a moment to honour Nico as a character and his relationship with Marti and I swear I’ll never be over it.

I lived my life alone before you

We see Nico alone with his eyes closed. The idea that we KNOW Nico felt alone before he met Marti. He told him he felt alone in his head, in a crowd and alone with people he loved. Marti changed that.

And with those that I’d never succeeded to love

Maddalena. Luai. Neither of them worked out. The first being unhealthy and damaging and the second being a tentative step into a hopeful romance which resulted in trauma.

But we know Nico is someone with a huge heart. He still wants to love and be loved in return… but he feared it so much because of his mental illness but also, we now understand, because of what happened to Luai

And I grew so accustomed to that kind of solitude

We saw he had. He told us that when he and Marti were in his bed. He lives his life feeling alone… so much so that the thought of being the Last Man frightened him so much.

I fought you, I did not know how to give it up

Well, even writing that made me cry. We WATCHED him fight his feelings for Marti. His own worries and fears making his route to falling for Marti full of bumps in the road. He felt unworthy and frightened… and yet he still couldn’t give Marti up. Time and time again he fought his way back to Marti - Halloween, Bracciano, by his plan for the apocalypse, on the balcony when Marti came out of the twinkle lights and then finally accepting to live life minute by minute despite his fear.

Before you, had I ever known love or had I only known misuse of the power another had over me? The power another had over me.

Oh. This line. This is the one that gets me. Full on tears. The fact that Nico, as a lovely kind gentle creative beautiful soul knew more pain than most his age by the time he met Marti. Not only did it come from parents and a girlfriend who failed to listen to him, who always decided his feelings for him, his battle with his mental illness causing him to feel shame and as if he couldn’t be loved and listened to as Nico and not a product of his mind. As Stefano Benni and La Giraffa helped him find strength that he could know real feelings despite his brain being poorly, he kept trying and fighting.

He watched a boy he liked, Luai, subject to significant mistreatment and trauma and no doubt partially blamed himself… never received closure for that and was left with clear scars from it

“Had i ever known love or had I only known misuse” - those words are so emotional for me. Had he? I don’t know if he had. It makes what he found with Marti so fundamental and meaningful. How safe Marti must have made him feel. No WONDER he tried to hard to cling on.

I crossed the country and I carried no key, couldn’t I look up at the stars from anywhere? And sometimes I did, I felt ancient but I still sought peace and it never came to me

I heard this and immediately thought of his mental health and also his path through his struggles. That idea of ENDURING and going through so much… never being able to see the stars or a way out. That overwhelming shame. That feeling of being weary and exhausted. The fact that he DID always keep going, always seeking peace and comfort and contentment but “it never came”….

They often spoke as thought I had been set free, but I travelled only in service of my dreams. I stood before them all, I was a sleepwalker

AH. Oh god this song. Every line, man. The idea that Nico has had people who have told him how to behave or have caused him to question his own mind… the fact he must have been told time and time again that he’s getting better or that he’s being monitored… but he chose to keep going if anything, for his passions. We KNOW he is a renaissance guy, a creative quirky soul. He plays piano and draws and sculpts and is a lover of film and the arts as a whole. All of that makes him deeply passionate and he uses it to help him, often to cope. But the idea of being a sleepwalker… the idea that he walked through life half asleep a lot of the time because of his past experiences even in the face of those who told him they cared.

Couldn’t hold my misery down, not even for you.

Nico can’t change who he is. He was never able to and nor should he. But he felt he wasn’t good enough for Marti. Meeting Marti made him want to change… but ultimately he realised that meeting Marti meant the opposite. He didn’t need to, he was loved as he is.

But I long for you now even when you just leave the room

OH my. Tears again. We have just watched him stare at Marti across the room with so much love in his eyes, so much longing for his best friend, his love. Not having Marti must hurt and hurt badly.

And of all of the roads and cities that I passed through, of all of the eyes I have searched inside, the one sense of permanence that I came to feel was mine, only beneath your gaze

FUCK ME. Haha. That last line. Marti is his person. Of all of the things he has experienced, the people he has encountered and tried to love or tried to make connections with, none of them worked out and never once did he feelable to be himself entirely… until Marti. Beneath Marti’s gaze, he could feel that sense of permanence… he could see and be himself.

I can’t even tell you how stunned I am at this song and how truly PERFECT it is for Nico… but that this last line… the fact the song tracks Nico through the house alone and ends with him finding Marti makes me want to weep into a cushion!

The fact he’s helped by those who also love him. They orchestrated this because Nico means something to them and so does Marti. They want them to be happy and he’s helped to find his way back to Marti by true friends.

The thing that CANNOT be ignored is that this whole thing happens because of Gio. Of COURSE it does. He spends this season trying to keep peace: with the girls, Nico/Marti and with Marti/la rosa squad. His heart is enormous and he just likes people to get along. My dude, how I love him.

As for the way the clip unfolds and the specifics, I love that it is the boys only who point Nico in the right direction. It had to be them. Gio being the one to lock the door. Gio’s smiles as he does it. It is SO reminiscent of the fact Gio left the cabin in Bracciano for them. He’s always there for Marti but that also means he’s there for Nico too and he won’t allow them to be unhappy.

I can’t handle how small Nico look, how cuddly in his sweater with his tumbly curls. He’s just the most endearing. The warmth of the lighting and of the house is a classic Skam Italia thing and is, as ever, like a comfort blanket.

The fact that Marti is under the bed makes me laugh with Nico having to bend down to see him… not to mention the “bastardi”. Oh my sweet idiot boy. He was never going to be able to get away with his self destruction and stubbornness forever and his boys won’t let him. I love that it’s so Marti. The whole exchange is so in character… Marti’s “I can jump out of the window” is his ever sarcastic self at play and I adore him for it and so does Nico because in the face of everything, Nico laughs. There’s just this overwhelming send of comfort and sweetness, I can’t explain it.

The fact that Nico asks “can I come closer?”. The softness of his voice, the way he ASKS and doesn’t just do it, the way he KNOWS he must go to Marti and that Marti’s stubbornness is fierce but also that he fell in love with Martino Rametta… he needs to spell things out for Marti and let him know what he wants.

What is also REALLY sweet is that it’s kind of Gio AND Elia who stand at the front of the door with Elia looking to Gio and celebrating their little trick. Their unspoken words and communications throughout Nico and Marti’s story was fundamental and we see it again. The characterisation is just so unbelievably consistent and meaningful. Their little high five at the end is adorable.

The fact they’re all outside, all hopeful and full of love for both boys is so heartwarming. I can’t!

I also LOVE the way Filo is there cuddled into Gio’s arm. THE SWEETNESS. Everyone must love cuddles from Gio. But Filo being a part of it is just PERFECT as he’s fundamental to them both too.

Then the ending being so so so sweet with Sana being so filled with love for her friends and for Marti and Nico that she uses that to spur her on to make a big decisions of her own. How I adore and cherish this scene so very very much.

I think their story in s4 carries on so well with so many ideas from s2, not just filling in the gaps about Nico’s past. It adds SO much to s2 and things we see, heard and experienced with both Nico and Marti.

The thing that most surprises me is that we are effectively handling an Evak couple “breaking up” in this season. Yes, it wasn’t a proper break up but still, in Evak terms that could be catastrophic. It isn’t and it wasn’t and I hold Ludo entirely responsible for the fan’s ability to understand and appreciate why he chose to test them. He didn’t allow them to become background mannequins, didn’t allow them to be unrealistically perfect, didn’t villainise either of them and made them both understandable. This would have, in other circumstances, caused a total fandom meltdown but all I’ve seen are insightful posts about why YES it hurt to see them upset and going through a rough time but NO it didn’t ruin them and, if anything, made them feel more real and more connected and determined to be better. The way Ludo loves Marti and Nico is all over this season despite it being Sana’s and, for me, it never takes away from her story. All anyone wanted from the inclusion of Nico’s past was that he was gifted some focus to honour his experiences and Ludo tried in so many ways to give him that and… well, this scene, to me, is a gift for Nico as a character.

If you got this far then GOD BLESS YOU but it is a testament to Ludo that I can always write damn essays on his work. I am so grateful to him for finding a moment in Sana’s season to do this and for it to mean SO MUCH despite it being so simple.

#skam italia #skam italia spoilers #nicotino #thoughts etc #hide and seek #si s4 #i was proper teary writing this

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kaypeace21 · 5 years

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i LOVE your analysis especially byler ones so please don't take this as hate, it's the last thing i want to do. but while i love the byler theories do you actually think the duffers are smart enough to realize the potential/brave enough to follow through on the relationship. bc tbh i think our viewpoint is skewed i don't think anyone but byler shippers see the canon possibility. and also it really seems like m/leven is going to be endgame? just wanted to know more of your thought process

Even if byler never happens- I’m 100% sure mileven won’t be endgame XD. Regardless of byler, Mike and El are just not going to happen. (Even if they’re ‘dating’ in s4). I could try to explain the reasons why I think byler will be endgame though. I’ll give the cliffnotes version. This will probably be a mess- because focusing on all the reasons isn’t as good as analyzing , each reason as it’s own separate post, in depth).

Why mileven isn’t endgame

- The duffers said, while filming ST, El was supposed to die in s1 (glad that didn’t happen). And this was also their plan when pitching their show ‘Montauk’ (later retitled ST), saying that the hypothetical s2 sequel would be about the boys returning to their town 10 years later. Mileven was never ‘planned end-game’. They also describe mileven kissing but never mention the word ‘love’ like how Jancy was described in the Montauk pitch. Nancy’s bio says “ she will experience love for the first time.” But when they describe mileven, they say, “If Mike is the Elliot of our show, Eleven is our “E.T.” Like that’s … not romantic, Duffers. And if it was supposed to be … WTF did you guys watch the same film? 0-O

- In the byler centric s2, the Duffers kept mileven separated. And the mileven kiss wasn’t written in the show. Millie pretty much said “they had to do it.” Much to Matt’s confusion but then the Duffers agreed. And used ‘every breath you take’ (a song about divorce), and just by coincidence their 2nd back-up song was also a song about a divorce? Nah, they were trolling.

- Most of the women (Nancy & Max) in the show critique Mileven saying Mike treats her as if she’s stupid, can’t take care of herself, or as she is a possession.

-in the first ep of s3 almost all the guys (who had/have gfs) Hopper, Lucas, and Dustin all criticize the mileven relationship and think it’s unhealthy.

Hopper says “ They’re spending entirely too much time together… It is constant.It is constant! Okay? That is not normal, that is not healthy! ”

Lucas mocks Mike, saying “ Oh El, I wish we could make out forever and never hang out with any of our friends.”

Dustin says when they flake on him, “It’s bullshit, I just got home!” (insert Nancy calling Stancy ‘bullshit’)

and before this Dustin talks about Romeo & Juliet (while mileven is out of frame). R&J is all about the dangers of not knowing the difference between love and infatuation. Juliet after Romeo is banished just complains about how in love/sad she is but never pursues looking for him (sound familiar)? R&J claimed that they were in love with each other after knowing each for a few days and deciding to get married-sabotaging the closest relationships they had with their friends/family (all in the name of ‘true love’) . Similarly Mileven thought they were in love after only a week of knowing each other, and the second they are reunited they start dating and spend all their time with each other. El is allowed out of the house (and her friends are allowed to visit), but El hasn’t interacted with Max nor Will? They spend almost everyday in her room just making out. Mike puts very little effort into integrating her into his life or as part of the group. The only time they go out- is for Mike to show off El to Dustin like a possession- then before El can even do the boding activity with the group (with the radio tower)- Mike convinces her to leave to make out. They are both complicit in this and they both bring out the worst in each other and they make each other blinded to their loved ones’ feelings.

- El literally asks Max “How do I know what I like?” Do I have to explain why this could be problematic? She even says “I don’t know”, when Max asks if Mike is a good kisser.You can call me ‘ableist’ my abused-autistic ass will disagree. But El is not ready for a romantic relationship! it makes perfect sense for El to be confused by the distinctions of romantic, platonic, and familial love- when the first 12 years of her life she didn’t receive any form of love , PERIOD! And she is not like normal abuse victims (she has never had proper socialization with peers her own age or even adults).All she had was television. She latches herself on to anyone who is kind to her (something I used to do). Without Mike she used Max as a replacement almost immediately, and even starts repeating/mirroring the things she says (specifically coping phrases from her …over 6 times!). She’s also susceptible to doing what others say or want her to do, “dumping his ass” (with Max’s validation and encouragement). El might love Mike but I don’t think it’s romantic, she latched on to the first person that was kind to her. Before their first kiss she asked Mike “Will you be like my brother?” And she’s hurt when he says “no”, asking “Why not?”. He then kisses her (she watches a lot of soap operas and she assumes it must be ‘romantic love’). You’re telling me that if she was ‘in love’ with Mike she would have been that happy over dumping him? I’m not saying El is dumb for not being able to discern these things (I think people without such backgrounds may still struggle with this concept). But it makes perfect sense for El to be confused by the distinctions of various loves or even the differences between ‘crushes’ , ‘physical attraction’ and ‘romantic love’

- In the last ep El asks about what he said at the cabin to Max, specifying “you talked about your feelings?”. He says and I QUOTE “Oh! Oh, yeah that.Man, that was so long ago. Um…” and starts to scratch his head. Then he excuses what he said at the cabin, saying it was “in the heat of the moment stuff and we were arguing… I don’t actually remember. What did I say exactly?”

Now either he legitimately forgot! Or he lied! You know the thing that broke them up in the first place! The one thing that El holds as her most important value in life- honesty. And he lied- about something as important as his romantic feelings?! Make up any excuse (about being shy/character flaws all you want), but this isn’t real life- it’s fiction (everything is done for a narrative purpose). That wasn’t an accident ( mileven wasn’t “written out of character”- like milevens claim, the duffers were criticizing the ship on purpose) .And the fact he lied again! Wouldn’t bode well for a long term relation with each other. The whole season, criticized their romantic relationship ! That wasn’t a coincidence neither was the fact he looked confused by her confession, and kept his eyes open the whole time and didn’t kiss her back .

And as she smiled and walked away, he looked confused. That wasn’t a directing mistake, like so many milevens are claiming! You really think they wouldn’t make sure their ‘fav ship’ didn’t have a good final kiss?

Especially since it was right after a romantic Jancy scene (which was directed amazingly)- where Nancy even mentions Mileven- to make us compare the 2 pairings romantic scenes even more.

* I know I sound like an assh*le but I’m just annoyed. I’ve always censored my byler posts trying not to offend/criticize mileven. I never cross tagged my byler meta with the hashtag mileven (never will, cause it’s rude). But (without sounding pompous) my byler posts generally gets reblogged a lot- and now the milevens have seen my posts (and are sending lots of hate my way) and worst of all they’ve invaded the byler tag. Today I saw 2 posts in the byler tag saying. “We’re delusional” and “stupid”- and also in the same posts they say they “feel attacked” by us.Um… there’s a difference between byler shippers privately criticizing a ship without bothering mileven shippers (and only tagging it byler) . Versus Mileven shippers tagging things byler (and ranting about the ship and it’s shippers). Loved the comment about how Mike can’t be bi cause “he loves El too much”.I think Mike is probably gay and in denial. But, um that’s not how being bi works- didn’t know bi people love women and men ½ as much as the gays/straights. Thanks for informing me (rolls eyes for eternity).So kid-gloves off, nothing left to lose! Time to compare the ships.

‘The breakup’ vs ‘fight’ parallel

comedic vs dramatic! The casual sunny day vs the dramatic framing of the storm (a romantic trope) . The ‘break-up’ being a scene with multiple onlookers vs the fight being with Will and Mike only (making it more personal/intimate). ‘Cold as ice’ playing after the mileven breakup vs the sad instrumentals playing during the byler fight. The comedic after-math at the mall. El and Max laughing, and another joke being made as the bus leaves.El’s happiness vs Will’s heartbreak.

Mike’s drastically different expressions after their fights. He looks regretful with Will, and almost annoyed with El dumping him. The fact Mike apologized right away more than once to Will, and ran into a storm to apologize a 2nd time. But with El he just lies to cover up the first lie, and then after the break-up he just complains/lounges on the couch (not taking any responsibility). He literally says about El “Why is she treating me this way? What did I do to deserve this? What did I do wrong?”.( He lied and made her feel “like garbage”!) Then he burps and laughs about chips- and makes sexist comments. Neither EL nor Mike are heartbroken by the breakup.

But when he angers Will (by him trying to finish the game early), he immediately tries to de-escalate saying softly “I was just joking- c’mon, let’s finish the game”. But when Will just yells back (much to Mike’s confusion) he doesn’t dismiss his feelings as irrational (like he wrongfully did to El) but chases him to the garage- and begs him to stay since it’s raining.

In the garage, Mike immediately apologizes saying “I said I was sorry, alright. It was a cool campaign.” But after this, they fight and Mike runs into a storm to apologize a second time , and says to Will’s door “ WILL! I’m sorry I was being an asshole. Can you just come outside and we’ll talk? WILL!” He immediately takes responsibility and apologizes. And he’s desperate to resolve things. And when they find him outside castle Byers he just asks (Mike’s catchphrase) “Will, Are you ok?”

Shed scene ( “best thing I’ve ever done” vs “the most important thing in the world to me”) parallel

When Mike says to El “you’re most important thing to me” in the pool shed. El doesn’t even acknowledge the comment (and neither should the audience- cause the words were empty). She completely ignores his words, and responds by asking him about his previous comments. Asking whether Hopper was right about them spending too much time together.

I didn’t edit (or delete any scene after his proclamation) this is how fast it was delivered ! The framing of this mileven scene was not cinematic or heartfelt, and neither was the delivery from Mike. He’s not crying, trying to reach her with proclamations of his genuine feelings. There’s no dramatic music, framing, lighting or shot composition. And El just responds and cuts his supposed ‘true feelings’ off- only to agree with Hopper and says “ she should spend time with her own species.” And if this ‘romantic moment’ wasn’t already undermined enough. This is when Mike realizes she was spying on him , and feels wrongfully violated (something she doesn’t apologize for, saying “I make my own rules” . He even brings this up in a later episode (this clearly bothered him)!

Juxtaposed to the MUCH longer byler scene. A literal single tear falling down his cheek as Mike , recounts the first day they met. Mike being in the back drop of darkness only his face being illuminated (having him appear like a guiding light to Will). Saying “ I felt so alone and so scared… but you were alone too” (alone together/crazy together) . He then talks about asking Will to be his friend, and then he pauses and breaks eye contact , before looking him in the eye and smiling (lost in the memory) saying softly “you said yes, you said yes.” (cough like saying yes at a wedding).

So, after he says “you said yes, you said yes.” It’s important to mention that he takes a deep breath and breaks eye contact again, (looking down and to the side) as he says this line. Subconsciously, I believe he knows this line is romantic and he’s too afraid to say it to his face. Only flicking his eyes up to look at Will after he finishes the entire sentence, and to gauge Will’s reaction.

This whole monologue is only of tight shots of just their faces (their bodies aren’t shown like in the pool shed scene). This is a personal moment between them and them alone- and the fact we zoom in on their faces (expresses this to be important emotionally) . And when we see Will’s reaction to Mike saying “it was the best thing I’ve ever done”. We just see Will’s face only- no music is playing and all we hear is Will’s whimpers and Mike crying in the background.

“ Blank makes you Crazy” vs “ Crazy Together parallel

When Mike tries to confess his “love” to El he says “Well they do say it makes you crazy”… much to El’s confusion.He has to try to explain it a second time to El- who just gets even more confused, by his ‘confession’. Saying “you never heard that expression? Like blank makes you crazy … like the word (love)?”

But when Mike says he “feels like he’s going crazy” Will immediately responds with “Me too”. Mike even smiles at the comment. So that moment in s2 means more than we think, when Mike (with tears in his eyes) smiles at Will’s comment and asks them to go “crazy together”.And when Will responds back “yeah, crazy together” (who also has tears in his eyes). They even linger on the moment as they just smile and stare at each other.

Mike is in denial, and may not even realize he loves Will, but he knows subconsciously that he does. He heard the phrase “love makes you crazy and that damn stupid”, 100′s of times and that’s why he said that phrase to Will. And why it made him so happy when Will reciprocated , by saying “ yeah. crazy together.” In addition to why we see them both go from happy, to immediately upset over the conversation.The scene was already romantically coded in s2 (but the scene in s3 re-contextualizes the whole thing) . Mike thinks “love makes you crazy” , and he asked Will to go ‘crazy together’ with him. And When Will is at castle byers looking at the Halloween pic of the 2 the day Mike said that, Will cries and calls himself “stupid” (4x). Can’t get more obvious… Like look what the duffers did!

El and Will’s opinions on Mike (Parallels)

-When asked if Mike was a good kisser, she just said “I don’t know he’s my 1st boyfriend.” (implying she’s thinking, at least subconsciously, of having other boyfriends ,who are not Mike in the future). But when Mike pretty much asks’ if Will thought they’d never get girlfriends, and spend the rest of their lives with each other’.Will just sadly responds “yeah, I guess I did. I really did!” Unlike, El, Will always saw Mike as his future, his forever.

-And when Mike says “it’s just a break” , Max says “No it’s not!”, and we see El laugh along with Max’s comment. She is not heartbroken at the idea of never getting back together with him, romantically. Right after they break up she was laughing, reading comics, and playing games with Max.

But Will is devastated over the fight! And out of all the memories in Castle Byers it’s the Ghostbusters photo from Halloween that causes Will to pick up the bat and start destroying everything. That was the night that Mike agreed to go “crazy together” with him. He tears it in ½ right in the center where Mike and Will are. He was so stupid to think it meant anything. The “crazy together” scene, that Mike initiated in s2 was always meant to be romantic. Not only because of Will’s reaction to the photo in s3, but because Mike in s3 says “They do say it makes you crazy…blank makes you crazy.” Which is exactly what happens to Will, as he has his breakdown.Castle byers was built on a rainy night , the same day Will’s dad left, when Will was 5 (the same age he met Mike). And lonnie called him a “queer” and a “f*g” and forced him to do “normal things” like baseball to have him “be more of a man”. And then on a rainy night, after Mike says “It’s not my fault you don’t like girls”… what does Will destroy castle byers with? A baseball bat! The fact Will has a baseball bat (despite in s1 saying he does not like baseball) in Castle Byers, surrounded by things he loves: drawings, d&d, art supplies, a microscope, comics- just shows what an impact Lonnie’s problematic conditioning and abandonment had on him. He used a baseball bat to destroy something he loves -castle Byers, and symbolically he was trying to reject his feelings for Mike using Lonnie’s old tactics of fixing him.

- Also, El doesn’t even seem to appreciate when Mike acts like his true self (goofy/like a kid). She laughs when Max complains he talks too much. Rolls his at his jokes with the cpr-dummy, covers his mouth and tells him to stop when he tries to joke and sing, ignores him when he gets excited about talking about dinosaurs. Which relates to my next point

The only characters who’s character bios focus on ‘escaping’ through d&d is Mike and Will.

Will in the Montauk pitch was described as having “sexual identity issues… LIKE MIKE , Will ESCAPES through fantasy gaming where he can be himself, uninhibited.” Like what is Mike escaping from… being a nerd? Because they could of said ‘like his friends’. And no it’s not because they’re best friends- they even specifIed in Lucas bio he’s “ Mike’s best friend” (which was even mentioned in s1).

.In Mike’s character description it says “ bullying and near-crippling insecurity. He has never had a first kiss, much less a girlfriend.He ESCAPES his insecurities through reading fantasy novels … retreating into his own vivid imagination. The Dungeon Master of his Dungeons and Dragons group, he writes sprawling adventures with fantastical monsters.When he finds himself on a real adventure, facing real monsters, he will discover a courage he didn’t know he had. By the end, he will even kiss a girl.”

*Interesting that Mike uses D&D to escape his insecurities about not having a gf (retreating into his imagination). While Will (who is somewhat aware of his sexuality) uses d&d to escape and be himself uninhibited. They’re foils in a sense- using d&d for opposing reasons.

So the s3 fight about d&d games has a lot more meaning

Mike equates heterosexual romance with ‘growing up’ and his feeling for Will as something childish he has to grow out of.When they fight over d&d. Mike says “It’s not my fault you don’t like girls!”, then he tries to ½ apologize only to say, “I’m not trying to be a jerk. Ok? But We’re not kids anymore.” He pretty much explains, this is just the way things are-boys fall in love with girls, get girlfriends, and that’s just a part of growing up (heteronormativity). And tells Will “I mean, what did you think, really? That we were never gonna get girlfriends? We were just gonna sit in my basement all day and play games for the rest of our lives?” And poor Will who is probably more aware of his feelings just responds. “Yeah. I guess I did. I really did.” And after this Mike rushes to Will’s house and apologizes saying he was an “asshole.”When he tries to say he loves El . It was very forced. He can’t even use the world love or explain his feelings, “A feeling … yeah, like, something… like OLD PEOPLE say it sometimes”.

He can’t even describe love and what his “feelings” entail for El , he then says “Yeah, like something , like old people say it some times. He doesn’t even say it back in the last ep, when she confesses. It’s all talk, but no feeling, it’s just a part of becoming an adult in Mike’s mind.

In the last ep before the mileven kiss, he even invites both El and Will over for Christmas saying “ And Will too… we could all have new presents to play with and… *scoffs* Sorry, that made me sound like a 7 year old... ”

And it’s implied in the last ep (before the mileven kiss), because of the 3 month breakup Mike is back to liking d &d. When Mike sees Will put his own d&d book in the donation box he stops him.

Mike: “WHOA, dude that’s the donation box.”

Will: “ I know, I’ll just use yours, when I come back. (pause) if WE still want to play?”

So then Mike asks, shyly …

Mike : “Yeah, but what if you want to join another party?” (cough- girls , the other ‘species’, or just someone else: girl, guy or otherwise)

Will: “Not possible.” (Will will always love Mike- insert Mikes immediate heart-eye reaction to this comment).

I think people don’t notice what the subtext is here- regardless of his intentions, Mike broke Will’s heart. He made him feel “stupid” for ever thinking he ever had a chance with Mike. He always saw Mike as his forever, but Mike shot any hopes of that down in the garage. Will doesn’t trust his own instincts. Mike could straight up flirt with him in s4/5- and Will would dismiss it as his imagination. He essentially said ‘he’ll always love Mike- but if something is going to happen. It’s up to Mike to initiate it’.

Mike was queer coded since ep 1 (and he’s more queer coded than Will)!

I LITERALLY thought (in s1) Mike was queer before Will!

- 3 rainbow references. Mike in s1 in his basement has a red heart being propelled by a rainbow sign. We see this again in s3 as a drawing. Mike also stands next to Will behind a rainbow apple poster in s2. Forbidden fruit + rainbow = queer forbidden romance. Also the apple poster was in the AV Club and at that time the rainbow apple-mac sign was suspected to be in reference to for Alan Turning (the gay ‘father of computers’).

In s1:

- 4 separate characters said El looked like a boy, but Mike doesn’t care! Even one of the men thought El might be the missing ‘Byers boy’. When El loses her wig , Troy said “she doesn’t even look like a girl” to the cops. But Mike just calls her “really pretty”

-Nancy says “I thought you were acting weird, but I thought it was because of Will” And Mike responds “I thought you were acting weird too I thought it was because of Steve … Do you like Jonathan now”?” Nancy: “No, do you like Eleven?”. They literally compared the explicit love triangle between Steve/Nancy/Jonathan to the Will-Mike-El dynamic!

- Mike literally uses gender inclusive pronouns when talking about crushes using the word “someone” (3 times), and embarrassing himself because he can’t articulate the difference between friendship and romance. When he could of simply given the 80s heteronormative answer of ‘when a boy likes a girl’.

Mike: “ you go to school dances with someone.

You know someone that you like”

El: “a friend?”

Mike: ‘not a friend uh … uh someone like a” (gives up and kisses her)

-Mike’s mom said “ What’s been going on with Will, I can’t imagine what it’s been like for you. I just … want you to feel like you can talk to me. I never want you to feel like you have to HIDE anything from me” (she even emphasizes the word ‘hide” (which is heavily queer coded)

- when Will ‘dies’, “we can be heroes” by David bowie (a bisexual singer) plays, “And we kiss as though nothing could fall and the shame” is the lyric that plays when Mike returns to his house and cries in his mother’s arms over the ‘death’ of Will. Do I have to explain how ‘kissing and shame’ are queer-coded . And how such a lyric is oddly romantic- if we’re supposed to see their bond as nothing but platonic XD

-his dad jokes “Absolutely not” *turns to wife* “our son with a girl?”.

- when Lucas makes fun of his crush on EL, Lucas gets down on one knee and says “ I love you so much, will you marry me?” and literally 1s later, we’re introduced to the bullies and the idea (for the first time) that Will is ‘gay’, and Mike is in the forefront of the scene and unlike his friends he is THE ONLY ONE physically assaulted as they cause him to fall face first into a rock (like a gay-bashing) . They leave Lucas and Dustin unharmed. Even though Lucas just proposed to another guy- which should have gotten him a beating by the homophobic bullies.

It’s supposed to subconsciously hint Mike is queer like Will, and likes Will. The first interaction with the bullies, they mention Will being ‘gay’ right after they mention Mike’s crush on androgynous El and have a guy propose to Mike. Mike says to “ignore them” ( the homophobic remarks) but is assaulted anyways. And when asked what happed he doesn’t want to tell El the details cause he’s ashamed .

2nd time the bullies talk about Will, Mike is once again in the forefront, unlike his straight friends who are in the background . But this time Mike initiates the confrontation), as the bullies say Will is “flying in fairyland with all the other little fairies. All happy and gay”. Mike was literally on the verge or tears at this comment (despite being happy a few moments earlier , telling the others to ‘act sad’ because they’d look suspicious other wise). But this is the comment where Mike snaps and pushes Troy back (because he took it personally/wanted to defend Will).

The framing of Mike once again being in the front and snapping at the homophobic remarks ( gifs don’t do it justice, just rewatch the scene -Mike eyes water at the remarks). Then the last time the bullies appear , Mike jumps off the cliff and “flies like a fairy” (like Troy said) thanks to El . Troy at the police station even uses the word “fly” not levitate.

-Mike sneaking out to find Will, as Steve sneaks in to Nancy’s. They both even make eye contact (and pretend not to have seen each other).

- they share dinosaur toys , in s1 and 2 they appear to be the only ones with dinosaur toys.

- The s1 mom hug scene where Mike feels he lost Will is paralleled in s3 - signifying how he lost him a 2nd time.

- Mike in the 1st ep being the one to insist on looking for Will in the rain (callback to s3). But he never went looking for El when he saw her through his window? Even when Mike saw Will’s dead body, the second he heard his voice he convinced his friends to help rescue him!

- You remember the binder (from s1) that Mike keeps, filled with 100s of Will’s drawings, and how he caresses the drawing after thinking Will was dead. That’s totes platonic.

- Mike in s1 proclaiming “I’m the only one who cares about Will!” Seems like something a kid with a crush might say ( because obviously his other friends care about Will). But he thinks he cares the most. He was even the first to worry about Will not showing up to school, the first to suggest looking for him while speaking to Hopper, and when Hopper and his parents say ‘no’ he sneaks out anyway (and is the first to suggest forming a search party). The first to believe he was alive after seeing his dead body.The only boy to have a scene dedicated solely to him mourning Will. Mike being the only boy to stay awake at the hospital, and the first boy to see and hug Will. The only one to have a private one on one talk before Will goes missing. The only one who was literally given 100s of Will’s drawings. And yet Dustin says Lucas’ is Mike’s best friend? So what does that make Mike and Will?

In s2:

- Will in all 3 seasons identifies as a wizard. But in s2 Mike (the paladin) says Will is a cleric. Meaning this reflects how Mike actually feels about Will. In d&d, they have similar moral values, powers, and generally need and depend on each other in the lore of d&d. Paladins have similar healing powers to clerics, but clerics have stronger healing abilities - which is interesting since Mike has always been viewed as the protector. But to Mike Will has helped him (maybe deal with the loss of El and other trauma) , just by being there. And if Mike says Will is a cleric,despite Will still identifying as a wizard in s3, it shows how deeply Mike actually feels about Will. It shows he views Will as one of the only people who understands him and views him as a healing presence and his moral compass.

“ strength of conviction gave many paladins a sense of common fellowship but did not always endear them to others. In many cases, paladins did not get along quite as well with other non-paladin adventurers, with the exception of clerics with similar beliefs.”

“A Paladin tries to hold to the highest standards of conduct, but even the most virtuous Paladin is fallible. Sometimes the heat of emotion causes a Paladin to transgress his or her oath (of honesty, courage, compassion, honor ,and duty). A paladin who has broken a vow typically seeks absolution from a cleric who shares his or her faith or from another paladin of the same order. After a rite of confession and forgiveness, the paladin starts fresh.”

This proves Mike knows he treats Will special/different than his other friends- and unlike a relationship with El (they are still individuals who are not dependent on each other). And Mike thinks being with Will quite literally makes him a better person. Juxtaposed with how him being in a romantic relationship with El made him blind and apathetic to those closest to him .

- All the mileven s1 parallels vs byler s2 parallels were ALL initiated by Mike. If the parallels were meant to show a one sided love triangle (on Mike’s end). They would of made Will the instigator not Mike! Parallels can be watched here , start at 6:50)

-Mike initiated the “crazy together’ line- and in s3 he said ‘blank makes you crazy’. So subconsciously he knew the line had romantic connotations.

-Mike initiating the hand hold (with a zoom in shot) and in the show this is only done for romantic pairings. Also Mike being the one to initiate the ‘arm thing’ which is generally romantic. But in s3 , Lucas also does this, saying “I am spending quality time with my girlfriend’

-Mike saying, asking him to be his friend was the “best thing I’ve ever done”

-Mike constantly following Will around, asking if he’s okay or biking to his house to check on him in s2 . In s3 running out to chase Will to the garage and apologizing, and running into a storm to apologize a 2nd time.

YOU SEE A PATTERN! Mike is whipped! And is the one constantly chasing and pursuing Will, not the other way around! Before s3, people always portrayed Will as the (stereotypical- problematic trope of a) sad-pinning-gay in a one sided love with Mike. It’s like people didn’t even watch the show (and just assigned tropes/stereotypes they wanted, that weren’t actually there). Will (probably too shy or scared to- because of homophobic taunts) never initiated a single byler moment- it was ALWAYS Mike!!! If people were actually objective, they would of thought it was Mike who was the one pinning!

- Which brings me to Mike literally pinning! Mike forcing Will to dance with a girl (who has a rainbow hairclip), but you literally see Mike’s shocked expression like ‘what,why’d I do that ?’ And after this, they show Dustin looking sad about Max/Lucas dancing and then they have Mike get into the frame (next to Dustin) and look sad when Will/girl are dancing in the same exact frame as Max/Lucas. As they switch between these last 2 shots.

the cannon Spotify playlists-called ‘Mike’s basement beats’- These are character playlists that Spotify and St worked on together after s2.

-his first song is “small town boy” an 80s LGBT anthem about living in a small town and being queer and bullied. Every band member was openly gay.

-his 11th song is ‘don’t you want me’ from a “celebrate your gay pride” album

* But queer people are “delusional” for thinking Mike isn’t straight? And are told to “open your eyes and watch the show” (that was an actual quote in the byler tag). Ok? Take your own advice, then! XD

One of the Duffers cited inspirations for ST is SUPER GAY (and what they based the byler dynamic off of).

In the Will comic, Will throws an old 1970s book called “house of stairs” at the demorgorgan. And in a later chapter Mike and Will just read together at the library (just silently reading together, enjoying each others’ company-totally not a romantic cliche).And Mike warns Will the book ‘could have spoilers’ for the d&d campaign. Also look at this byler-centric cover :)

Peter (Will) is shy, quiet ,initially a pushover, and gay-coded. And as a coping mechanism he has psychological-breaks with reality where he thinks of his best friend from the orphanage, Jasper (Mike) . Another kidnapped boy, named Oliver (who looks just like Jasper/Mike) is also queer-coded (but a violent-sociopath). And, unlike Jasper who actually wanted to protect/take care of Peter -Oliver starts to gets a sick thrill out of making Peter dependent on him (which Peter catches on to pretty quickly). Oliver was insistent on being the only one to ‘wake’ Peter from his episodes (just like how Mike did for Will, in s2), except Oliver calls him pet-names like “sweetheart, baby, etc.”

And again to prove it’s queer-coded I’ll read some of the (shortened) quotes, in the order they were written. These are quotes from Peter (Will’s) pov talking about his childhood best-friend Jasper (Mike) .

-“his room. His and jaspers room. Jasper looking up from his desk, smiling glad to see him. Jasper saying . Something very important. The most important message, the secret message. He couldn’t hear him . But jasper keeps smiling , keeps talking . What was the message, jasper? What was the message? The dream had been beautiful at the beginning, terrible at the end, but he longed to be in it again. If only he hadn’t awakened.”

-“Jasper sitting on the bed and taking off his shoes ,smiling, ‘you’re okay pete, you’re better than a hundered of those slobs put together. Tomorrow I’ll tell them so myself‘ jasper’s strong, hard body as he got into bed ,so different from peter’s. Strong, to protect him to take care of him. Jasper, who always took care of him”.

-“He wanted to think about oliver it it was like having Jasper back again. It would disturb him to see Oliver go off with Abigail… the rejection quite painful. It had never been like that with Jasper…jasper.

-The room they shared with rainbow colors, murmuring comforting words to him , enclosing and protecting him. He let himself drift into it, the rainbow hues dimness.”

-“No one ever depended on him. It was he who always depended on others, on Jasper. jasper, who had always taken care of him. Jasper…”

later he admits his feelings for Jasper to Lola/el. Lola and Pete are plantonic soulmates. The only reason why they survive and don’t succumb to their dark and violent urges/psychological brainwashing is because of each other. Lola has brown hair and eyes and has a buzzcut and is heavily implied to be a lesbian (as she is the only girl in the group who is not fooled by Oliver’s ‘nice guy act’. Which makes the other girls ‘suspicious’ and alienate her). Also this was written in the 70s… she has a buzzcut and is said to “look like a boy”. It’s not that subtle! There was a reason that the author whose first name was WILLIAM (was suspected to be gay/bi when he was alive)! XD

-Peter says “ he was my friend we were always together . Jasper his name was jasper .in the dream he’s taking care of me’. Now he was beginning to cry, his throat constricting and tears welling up in his eyes .’taking care of me … he always took care of me… taking care of me, and , and … and loving me’. ‘”It was the best time in your life’ she murmured’. ‘Yes’ “

* cough protective childhood friend, rainbows, ‘best time of your life = best thing I ever did.

S3 ending (byler centric ending)

When we first see Mike during the Hopper mologue, the moving truck leaves. “Like you’re pulling away from me or something. I miss playing board games every night (d &d)”… (the last thing they talked about was Will visiting to play d&d and their fight this season started because of a disagreement about d&d.)

Then Mike looks back at the Byers house (just lingers there and looks back as his friends leave) like how Will did seeing Mike hold hands with El and leave . “But I know you’re getting older, growing, changing. I guess, if I’m being really honest, that’s what scares me. I don’t want things to change.”Mike , like Will “doesn’t want things things to change”. He doesn’t want his his feelings of friendship to become romantic in regards to Will, it “scares” him (especially in rural 80s Indiana). Right after Will cries, it immediately switches to Mike hugging his mom- to mirror the time he thought Will died in s1 “So I think maybe that’s why I came in here, to try and maybe stop that change. To turn back the clock. To make things go back to how they were.” He goes back to his mother for comfort, like he did the 1st time he lost Will. But also to reverse back time, to s1, before he realized his feelings for Will were romantic. When things were simpler.

“But I know that’s naive. It’s just not how life works. It’s moving, always moving, whether you like it or not. And yeah, sometimes it’s painful. Sometimes it’s sad. And sometimes, it’s surprising. Happy.” (byler endgame)

Will (in s2) even says everyone treats him like ‘freak/ that something is wrong with him’ (purposely leaving out Mike from the discussion). And then when Will disparages himself as a freak,and Jonathan agrees but asks Will, ‘who would he rather be friends with- David Bowie (who was openly bi since the 70s) or Kenny Rogers’? And when Will says Bowie, Jonathan agrees saying “see, it’s no contest”.

So, it’s just another coincidence that when Will ‘dies’ (in s1) a David Bowie song (‘we can be heroes’) plays. And as Mike hugs his mom, mourning Will - a romantic lyric from the song plays during the hug?“And we kiss, as though nothing could fall. And the shame” (which is heavily queer coded)?

And then in the last ep (in s3) Mike mirrors this scene in s1, hugging his mom, since he feels like he’s losing Will all over again. And right after the hug (‘we can be heroes’) plays again!? I’m not saying byler is endgame. But- WAIT THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT I’M SAYING! XD

These men literally invented ‘hetero-baiting’ (with Robin & Steve) and you think they’re going to queer bait?!

Also, if Will was a girl named ‘Willow” no one would call byler ‘delusional’ ! Even the most casual viewer would say it’s obvious they’d end up together in the end!

If the witness said about El in s1 , “ same height… it could be the Byers girl”, instead of ‘boy’ (pointing out the resemblance). Mike only meeting El cause he was looking for Willow. Proclaiming “i’m the only one who cares about Willow!” . Mike getting into fights and getting upset (almost crying) about the bullies insulting Willow. Mike only getting angry at El when he thinks she lied about Willow being alive. Mike being the only boy who has a scene dedicated to his loss of her (with the same romantic lyrics playing). Mike having a whole binder of her drawings and caressing one of the drawings, after he thinks she died. Mike being the only one of her friends to stay awake at the hospital, waiting for her to wake up- so he can see her and hug her first. People probably would of started shipping it the second Willow stared at him and was the only one who didn’t lie to him, in the first ep! Another parallel to El!

If Will was Willow, the majority of the fandom would be byler shippers. Think about it! . Mike having s2 byler scenes that are identical to s1 mileven scenes, and then additional unique byler scenes. Mike staying by Willow’s side 24 hours a day for several days (not even changing clothes), carrying her out of the hospital, grabbing her hand (with a zoom in shot),constantly asking her if she’s okay at least 5-7 times, putting his arm around her twice, being the only one who could tell something was off with her (and it wasn’t her normal type of quiet). Calling and running all the way to her house and banging on the door to check on her, desperate. Watching her sleep cause he’s so worried. That shed scene reminiscing about how they first met in perfect detail, saying “I asked, I asked if you wanted to be my friend. You said yes, you said yes. It was the best thing I’ve ever done. (like a marriage proposal)” The “crazy together” scene. Them being close since they were 5 vs the girl he knew for a week (but is somehow in love with?). In s2 if Mike sadly watched Willow dance with another guy , while Dustin does the same to Max. Forget it- everyone would already know mileven would be doomed to fail.

And again think about s3 if Will was a girl.They parallel the (comedic) mileven breakup vs (the sad/serious) byler breakup. Then Mike just complains and burps on the couch vs apologizing to Willlow multiple times/even going into a storm to apologize a 2nd time (and to ‘talk’). Willow having a breakdown over the fight vs El laughing and high five-ing Max after.The shed vs the pool shed scene- “best thing I’ve ever done” vs “you’re the most important thing in the world to me”, “blank makes you crazy’ (as El stares confused) vs “crazy together’ (where Willow says ‘yeah, crazy together’). Mike going on ‘movie dates with Willlow all the time’ right after making out with El. The last mileven kiss where Mike has his eyes open the whole time, and doesn’t kiss back. And saying he doesn’t remember saying “I love” you to El (and doesn’t say ‘I love you’ back). Right after having a talk with Willow about playing games when she comes back (the crux of their fight). Mike getting excited that he’ll be able to visit El and Willow on Thanksgiving and them visiting him on Christmas (those are holidays where family usually introduces their S.O.) Having the last scene of Mike, be him looking back at Willow’s house, and have that whole monologue about “feelings changing”, and then he goes to hug his mom like the s1 byler scene where he thought Willow was dead, signifying he lost her again. And that’s not even all the scenes- and every time byler won by a landslide. If Will was a girl, we wouldn’t be ‘delusional’! It would be obvious writing on the wall, that Mike would eventually choose Willow over El by the end of the series.

But since they are 2 boys, we’re delusional, because queer kids don’t exist … apparently.

*S3-I’m not repeating my literal essays but they’re probably better than this post so here are the links to pretty much all my s3 byler meta. (x) (x) (x) (x) (x) (x) (x) (x)

gif credit: 1st few have the name stark in the gifs, 2nd byler gif (found on wheheart.com- user dream_daisy, not sure if they also have a Tumblr , 3rd livelovecaliforniadreams, 4th &10th Cath-avery, 5& 6th unknown, 7-9 eggogorgon . Tell me if you know the unknown one so I can give credit , please.

#byler #byeler

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squarecarousel · 3 years

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Interview with Caitlin Alexander

Well folks, we're nearly at the end of our Square Carousel journey, and there are just two interviews left – both with two of our longest-standing members! Today, we reconnect with Caitlin Alexander, who has been with the Square Carousel Collective from its very beginning almost 10 years ago. Although we've featured an interview with her here in the past, it's been so long that we are due for an update! When she's not freelancing or performing her duties as an SC admin extraordinaire, Caitlin works tirelessly on her craft, creating prints, products, hand lettered posters, and artwork that embrace the earthy beauty of nature. With a strong focus on environmentalism and a sense of community, her artwork exudes a warmth and complexity that draws the viewer in and invites them to stay a while. Read on for her gems of wisdom!

Make Earth Cool Again

Q: Comparing your early work from your first few years after college to your most recent pieces, you've kept a lot of the textural, playful essence of your style while refining certain elements. Has your process changed much since those early days, and if so, what do you now do differently?

A: Such a great question straight out of the gate! My process has changed quite a bit since I graduated in 2011 (almost a decade ago... yikes!). In college, part of my crafted identity as a brand-new illustrator was my traditional use of gouache paint. I actually, in all honestly, was kind of a snob about it, because so many people in our department worked solely digitally. I felt that digital painting was a crutch, which I suppose can be true in some cases, and possibly even more-so when you're applying that to college students, but I certainly had no ground to stand on. In reality, my snobbery kept me from learning critical tools, as I never took Photoshop or Illustrator classes, aside from the one that was required for graduation. This hindered my work a great deal outside of college, given that illustration is so often paired with graphic design, and editing work for clients was so much more difficult traditionally. In 2013, I got a job designing t-shirts, and lied to the company, saying I knew how to use Illustrator. Luckily it was remote, so I was able to teach myself without anyone hovering over me, but that was so foolish, looking back, given the expensive education I got at SCAD should have been my opportunity to learn those things. I introduced digital work more and more over the years, and by 2016 or so, I was primarily a digital artist. Gouache will always have a place in my heart, and I will still break out the tubes occasionally, but working digitally has allowed me to grow so much more as an illustrator, with the ability to edit, paint with more detail, and having more control over color and layering.

Q: Of all the projects you've done in your professional career, which would you say is closest to your heart?

A: Probably the picture book I worked on a couple of years ago, titled "Cool For You." I had a lot of creative freedom for that project, and the subject matter of climate change is personally very important to me. Working with the author, Marianna, was really wonderful, as well.

Cool For You book cover

Q: The Southwest influence on your work is pretty significant, and I think it's safe to assume you appreciate the majesty of the landscape in your region of the country. However, if you had to live in another state, which would you choose and why?

A: Funny you ask that, because I've actually considered moving from Texas to Colorado lately! The culture there is still very western, but I appreciate the liberal point of view (Texas has been grating on me lately, even living in Austin), and the landscape is even more stunning out there! I'd be close to so many inspiring National Parks. Plus, summers wouldn't be 8 months of the year and over 100 degrees for half of it!

Travel West postcard (1 of 6)

Q: TV shows or movies?

A: Lately, Jordan and I have been watching New Girl on repeat. I'm not usually one to watch a show or movie over and over again, but I think we really just needed something light and fun, since life has been so very stressful over the last year.

Q: What's your favorite subject to draw?

A: This one is hard! I'm torn between people and landscapes. People are more fun and comfortable for me, and I could knock out a bunch of them quickly. Landscapes are always intimidating, and I'm nervous the whole time, feeling like I can't remember how I did it the time before. It's so strange, because it always ends up fine! But since I feel that way, the payoff is so much greater when I feel satisfied with the final result.

Q: What would a perfect day look like for you? A: I probably would have answered this totally differently pre-COVID, but in this current world we live in, I would absolutely love to have what used to be a normal, uneventful weekend day for me: Jordan and I would sleep in a little, see an early afternoon movie at the Alamo Drafthouse where we'd eat lunch, then spend the rest of the afternoon browsing used book stores and estate sales, and then meet our friends at the neighborhood coffeehouse for dinner and Trivia Night. I will be so happy to have that again.

Cover art for East Side Magazine

Book Lover Ladies series- The Book Clubbers

Q: What have you learned from your years at Square Carousel, whether organizing behind the scenes or as a contributor?

A: Oooof!! So SO many things! Wow... well, I'll go with the most obvious first: as a member, I learned how to continue to make portfolio-worthy work, even without jobs coming in. That was definitely the most valuable thing about Square Carousel, in my opinion, and hopefully what everyone else got out of it, as well. It can be so hard for fresh graduates to keep up that momentum, and the group saved many of us from becoming stagnant. In terms of running the group... it's been rewarding, but honestly very difficult throughout the years. There have been many ups and downs, and finding the right balance between structure and patience can be extremely challenging. I'm super proud of Elizabeth and myself (OG members!) for keeping it running through the messes-- we've been through some shit together! My major takeaway is the importance of diligence. Projects, businesses, organizations-- they all need at least a couple of people who just keep chugging along, always maintaining the structure (schedule and accountability) and balance (rules and lighthearted encouragement).

Moth magnets

Q: As the readers are aware, Square Carousel drawing to a close soon. Do you have any plans for what you'll do with the extra time you'll have after our tri-weekly challenges end?

A: You know, I actually haven't thought about this too much yet. It's probably because I'll just fill it with more self-imposed projects and deadlines, since I was able to bring that skill I learned in Square Carousel into the rest of my career a while ago. (Or more real jobs! That would be ideal!) I'll miss the community though, and hope to find a way to keep that aspect of freelance life alive. Instagram friends, anyone?

Q: What's your quirkiest habit?

A: Jordan told me recently that he found it weird and endearing that I joke-sing to my cats in the kitchen about really stupid stuff... so probably that! Official Cat Lady© status achieved.

Caitlin and Buster Keaton the Kitten

Q: What advice would you give to a newbie illustrator just starting out today?

A: I'd give them the hard advice that our professors didn't really give us in school: there is no way this is going to work out for you if you're not incredibly committed to pursuing it. Now, don't get me wrong-- I'm not telling anyone to have an unhealthy work/life balance because I think that's a toxic sentiment. But you have to keep illustrating and illustrating and illustrating, and arguably more importantly, keep networking and networking and networking. You're going to be rejected or ghosted more often than not, but if you really want it to work out, you're going to keep doing it anyway. And taking critiques if industry folks offer them, to grow and become better. Don't become stagnant in those critical building years.

Caitlin’s studio

Q: Anything else you would like the readers to know?

A: Yes – thank you so much for supporting Square Carousel through our amazing ten years of challenges! We really appreciate everyone who has kept up with us, checking out the illustrations for each prompt and reading our posts and interviews. Y'all are wonderful, and we hope you'll continue to find us, wherever each of us fly from here! And on that sweet note, we say goodbye for now! Check out Caitlin’s website for more, and follow her on Instagram for new art when it drops.

Join us next time for our final interview!

#interview #caitlin alexander #illustrator #interviews #square Carousel #gouache #digital artist #artists on tumblr #artist interview #cba illustration

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kiribakuhappiness · 4 years

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What MHA characters would you say describe you?

Okay okay okay okay

This is gonna sound stupid at first (because of the content of my blog) but hear me out. It's 100% a really weird mix of Bakugou and Kirishima. Let me explain.

TL;DR - Probably Kirishima Eijirou, with just a splattering of Bakugou Katsuki. Also probably some of Aizawa Shouta as well, with the 100% I don't give a fuck attitude and constant naps. Yeah, definitely a little bit like Aizawa as well!

I relate to Kirishima. A LOT. His constant edging between overwhelming confidence (like the one he displayed at the sports festival when he convinced Bakugou to let him be on his team) and plummeting self-doubt (like when he was talking down about his own quirk). The way he genuinely and full-heartedly sees the greatness of others and is in constant awe of "cool" and "manly" people and yet, for some reason, has a hard time truly accepting that anything about himself could ever be just as great. The lingering, ever present thought of just NOT being good enough. The fact that the person he WANTS to be and the person he IS seems to be engraved in his brain as two seperate entities that could never co-exist in the same space because he, himself, just isn't GOOD enough to be who he wants to be.

On the other side, I relate to Kirishima not just for his weaknesses but also for his strengths. The ability to be "unwavering" (I've been told most of my life that I take a lot of things with an easy stride, barely batting an eye or hesitating). The way he forces himself, every day, to act like the person he WANTS to be (social, outgoing, brave, confident) even if deep down he doesn't feel like he's any of those things and his imposter syndrome starts to take over every now and then. His ability to friend just about ANYBODY (I never had a set friend group, no matter where I've been - 2 middle schools, 2 high schools, 3 colleges, and an exchange program - instead I always singled out specific people around me and made close connections to individuals from varying social groups (like how Kirishima is friends with Bakugou the antisocial grump, or Tetsutetsu from class 1-B, etc).

However. I am a hell of a lot like Bakugou. And not always in the good ways.

Growing up, I was angry. So angry. Allllll the time. Didn't matter at what or who or WHY, I was just furious with the world and everyone in it and I RADIATED do-not-fucking-look-at-me-or-even-think-about-talking-to-me-energy. I got into fights all the time (people would pick on me, or pick on someone in my class, and I literally just couldn't stop myself from running headlong into them and knocking them down, it's like I never had any control over my body or my own actions until it was already wayyy too late). Also growing up, I was ALWAYS complimented by adults around me, even when my peers tended to avoid me. Adults were always telling me how "talented" I was, how "strong" I was, how "smart" I was, how "mature" I was. I didn't have an ego like Bakugou did where I thought I was better than everybody else (remember, self-doubt, low Kirishima self-esteem issues were still a thing, even despite all these praises) but I developed an especially unhealthy drive to push myself farther and farther until I'd burn out, get really sick, break something, whatever, because I felt like if I wasn't constantly recieving that kind of validation every single day then I wasn't TRYING hard enough and somehow it was my fault for not WANTING it enough. So whenever I would fail at something or I wasn't instantly amazing and talented at something, it really got to me, more than it definitely should have, so I've always understood Bakugou's unrelenting anger.

Also, my mother is 100% Bakugou Mitsuki. It's startling, honestly. That scene at the Bakugou household when Aizawa and All Might were attempting to start the dorm building thing had me pressing pause and sitting with my hands to my face like, wtfffff??? Ahahaha!

So! As cheesy as it sounds and as horrible as it probably is, I relate most to Kirishima and Bakugou, which probably explains why they're my brotp/otp! Watching those two differing personalities (two personalities that I recognize that I have within myself) coexist so perfectly together that everyone writes "soulmate" fanfic about them actually does something therapuetic for me, where I can maybe imagine my two raging sides coexisting peacefully within myself; if I just take the time to understand where both are coming from. Everybody says that Kirishima and Bakugou are a great couple because they balance each other out, which gets me thinking that if I have both of those personalities inside of me, then maybe I already have everything I need to balance myself out, if I can just learn to capitalize on it.

Also also, I have hella dude-man-bro energy 😂 so Kirishima's love for super manly stuff resonates with me LOL!

That sounds so cringey but whatever, so that's that, there's my answer lmfao 😂

#personal #asks #mha #bakugou katsuki #kirishima eijirou #aizawa shouta

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rhydium · 3 years

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Info dumbo about the StarFinite story?

aright u asked for it anon GET READY [cracks knuckles] this is gonna be long so obligatory cut in 3, 2........

...1!

so the uh, the au! the story!! w/e yall wanna call it! full disclaimer, i only began working on this whole thing a while ago, but it's totally taken over my fukn brain. like, we're talking big hyperfixation hrs. am i cringe for being this invested in my own content? yes? cool i do not Care >:3€

i should also throw it out there real quick that i am kin w/ infinite, n this is actually one of my two canons (both of which are my own aus lmfao wow). i didn't go into it expecting it to be but sfsfsgdfs here we are ig!! for that reason it's got extra importance to me n this definitely contributes to the euphoria i get from it!! it's a lil odd writing ur own canon,,? but i kinda just go w/ the flow!

the au n, the story that i will start Eventually, revolves around infinite n starline (obvi) n it's honestly just ... the tl;dr is big healing momence n, what's this? uh oh sisters !!! they are falling in love 😳😳😳

uhhhh so infinite is an android, made by eggman. that's like, the most notable canon divergence here! super important context to have. i've got a whole big theory on the possibility of sega originally intending infinite to be an artificial being (which i explored in the works for my Other canon too), stemming from not only the scene in forces wherein infinite comments on sonic's "data", but a line of dialogue from tails in one of the last stages of the game where he Literally Says "so this is where eggman built infinite". that ... i mean. that contrasts w/ episode shadow pretty hard don't it?? would explain why that dlc was so rushed, n the comic too. ANYWAY adsfsfs um that's a seperate ramblepost. yeah!!!

they are also agender n use they/them (primarily) as well as he/him!! so i'll be refering to them w/ those pronouns!

after the war, infinite is taken in by the resistance n, instead of being dismantled, they're basically given a chance to rehabilitate themselves. it's agreed that they won't be reprogrammed, as despite the potential risks, it feels wrong to do so; like a violation of their free will, individuality n thinking. if infinite is to be a good person, it's not gonna be bc other ppl recreated their entire personality, it's gonna be bc it's what they themselves truly want. robot ethics idk man!! u can't tell me that sonic n co wouldn't offer this to infinite if they offered it to metal in IDW,,,, i am Standing By This!!!

it's, yknow, a bit rocky, at first. infinite has to really fight the urge to return to eggman (something they already tried once, before the resistance found them; they were cast out). it's a struggle against what they were built to do, against giving into unhealthy familiarity over facing a, while healthier, unfamiliarity. new faces, a new life, turning their back on their mission n creator, it's like, a lot.

they work for/with the sonic crew, rebuilding the world they tore down as deemed fitting justice, being closely monitored for a bit as a natural precaution. as it becomes apparent infinite truly no longer has any ambition to harm others (they don't have much ambition for anything, really), they're then granted more freedom, n start taking on more important missions!! it at least gives them something to do, keeps them occupied. they have issues with dissociation, unreality, whether they're truly a real person bc, well, android. feeling purposeless, n a lack of worth, especially. a need to prove themselves. heavy stuff. i'll kinda go into that a bit more in a sec. their work grounds them, if only temporarily.

n soooooo... IDW comic stuff happens. metal virus time. starline gets kicked out of the empire.

now, as the comics are ongoing, n as this is already an au, there's gonna be divergence, n i must admit i haven't planned out all that yet. there's a lot i have to consider!! infinite being w the resistance/restoration is a big game changer ... tho i Do believe that they were absent, likely on a far out mission during most of the chaos. eggman doesn't know abt them, nor does starline or anyone else other than the sonic crew; n some civilians that recognise them.

i'm not 100% sure of Exactly when it happens, but i think it's just after bad guys, that infinite is sent to locate n bring in starline. it doesn't prove too difficult. there's a whole, starline realising "oh fuck it's you???", some bickering n, the two don't hit it off right away. they're both kinda like. not mentally stable ddgddgdds,,,

so uh. starline ends up essentially going thru the same sorta shit as infinite. careful watch, rebuilding, all that jazz, making sure he can be trusted. he's like... very very lost, quite like infinite is. the world has kinda calmed down, in the meanwhile.

it's at this point i'm gonna go ahead n drop a bit of a ramble i subjected my friends to a while ago, to articulate the way i see the two, n their dynamic together!! i was considering making this it's own post a while ago!

analysing their characters a bit... let's look at starline. Like. so we have this, in bad guys, which SENT ME tbfh;

i feel like it's the moment that triggers starline onto the path he is rn canonically,,, he's clearly like. rly mad n bitter. the core of this?? he wants his work n his efforts to be acknowledged.

he's big angry. still kind of in denial at this stage. he has himself obsessed w/ the idea of making eggman see him as Worthy, that if he just tries hard enough, that'll happen. he's dependent on eggman's validation, n i mean, it's no surprise; he's followed him a Long Time by the sounds of it.

then in the recent issue, hold the fuck up, bc we got, This;

god. my god it's all comin together now homies. this???? this right here??? it is the CLASSIC "i have to do this to prove i'm strong n powerful n smart n worthy n should be respected please Give Me Acknowledgement" ..... n who else is Like That? can u see where im going w/ this?

i think most ppl are aware of infinite's character being extremely indicative of self worth/esteem issues n the need to prove themself, right?? the extreme adversity, repulsion, perhaps even fear toward the idea of being weak. the compulsion to prove otherwise, to show their strength, to become powerful, to conquer to make a point. their theme exudes this same energy as their behaviour in-game; an aggressive attitude, trying to assert themself, while if u rly listen...? the lyrics are actually really sad in places. it reeks of cover up, although composition wise, a v interesting thing to note is a lot of the more telling lyrics are prominent while some of the affirming ones are in the background. indicative of a desire to have their true feelings be heard but caught in a vicious loop?

okay okay that's yet Another different analysis. AHEM.

not to get deep on main (oh who the hell am i kidding that's the point of this entire thing) but i think starline has issues w/ his worth in a similar way to infinite. they both seem to have this need to Prove something, whether it's to others or themselves, n get caught in a toxic spiral of doing worse n worse things for Some kind of validation or acknowledgement. they'll go to really big lengths chasing that, n both of them ultimately sought validation in the wrong place n wrong way.

this is a big part of my starfinite dynamic,, n so, what happens, as they get closer n open up??? we have them BOTH realising together that they don't have to do fuck all to prove anything to anyone. they don't need to do all this to show they're strong n smart n worth something, not to anyone else OR themselves. they're enough as they are. they bond over that shared feeling that they have to do xyz, to prove themselves, n that desire to just finally be acknowledged n appreciated n help each other thru it. to help each other understand that other ppls approval, or lack thereof, doesn't define them, their strength, intelligence, and worthiness.

i feel like they have an interesting parallel between them in like... the above could be taken as a general analysis, but to go more in depth on this au specifically?? ...

starline followed eggman for presumably a long time n it no doubt left him feeling a heavy and deep regret for all that time wasted n spent on an unhealthy path. infinite kinda teaches him that what matters is what he's doing Now n also reminds him that if none of it happened, starline wouldn't have learnt a lot of the serious skills he has. n while starline still feels bad, he also realises himself that, he likely never would have crossed infinite's path if none of it happened. for that reason, he wouldn't take it back.

infinite has only been recently made, on the other hand. they haven't really existed long, yet, but so far their experiences haven't been very positive n it can be .... discouraging. starline sorta, shows infinite their limited experiences w/ the world are a very tiny fraction of what's out there, n things can absolutely change, yes, including for the better; that's the essence of life, a neverending, constant flow of change.

it's a big tale of moving on n letting go, honestly; made easier as they're doing it together. n as they heal n grow, well... these bitches gay. sfshshdgds like, ig that's putting it p bluntly but!! they start to trust each other, understand each other more. as they get to truly know who the other is, they both start developing The Feelings. they're both pretty oblivious n the reveal is totally unknown so far!! yeah, i know, bummer. i suck. boo. adafsfsds however i can say there will be lots of content in the making!! if that soothes the soul! i've got of ideas i hope to bring to life.

ofc there's still a lot of more specific things i haven't covered here so! if y'all want more juice hmu w/ more focused questions but !! this is the overview n i hope it was a decent read now that gave some uhhh! Cool Insight! yea!!! ✌

#jackal.txt #android infinite au #i need a proper name for this #infinite the jackal #dr starline #starfinite #long post #idw sonic spoilers

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pumpkinpaix · 5 years

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hi again! previous anon here, just remembered a question. there's something that's been nagging at me about the show's lan parents storyline — LXC tells WWX that story about his parents and it seems like it's meant as a parallel for LWJ and WWX. But the Lan parents thing sounded like a super toxic/unhealthy relationship? like their mom was literally being kept against her will... maybe i'm just missing the nuance for the parallel? would love to hear your thoughts on this!

(ask con’t, sorry it’s long) i’ve just gotten out of a bad relationship not too long ago and gets really leery of cdramas portraying control as love (ie one love interest preventing the other from leaving, or clear power imbalances as with period dramas). i really don’t think that’s what’s happening here but got kind of uncomfortable too at the “i want to bring someone back to gusu/hide them away” line LWJ had earlier. might you have an alternate interpretation? i’m almost sure i’m misreading!

So a couple things first: thank you so much for asking me this question because my thoughts about the untamed/mdzs have been so much and turbulent that having a specific thing to focus on is really helpful, AND it’s also really flattering that you think I??? would have worthwhile thoughts???? about this really complicated thing.

Second: I want to make sure to say that no matter how strongly I feel about my interpretation, no matter how long I spend composing this response, you are not obligated to change how you feel. If that line still bothers you, it still bothers you. Our experiences are different! And it’s okay! That being said, haha, buckle up I guess, because WOW do I have a lot of things to say.

Spoilers up through episode 43, obviously, with allusions to the novel. I will try to keep any details about things that happen post-43 vague.

Let’s begin with this moment:

“Was he right to do this?” || “I don’t know.”

[id: image 1 is a screenshot of lan xichen asking “was he right to do this” and image 2 is a screenshot of wei wuxian responding “i don’t know” from episode 43 of the untamed /end id]

I think we need to think about how to answer this question before we can answer your question: how can we interpret the relationship between lan wangji and lan xichen’s parents? Was it moral? Was it okay? Was it right? This is clearly a question that lan xichen has been wrestling with his whole life. And from this scene, I think that he’s made his peace with the fact that it’s always going to be a question for him, not because the inherent morality is unclear, but because of the emotional subjectivity he’s always going to hold for it. He doesn’t expect wei wuxian to have an answer because he doesn’t have an answer himself.

Something that I remember from the novel that doesn’t make it into this scene, though, is what wei wuxian says after lan xichen asks, “can you understand why my father acted this way?” and he nods, is the explanation he gives: he hated the person who had murdered his mentor, but he also loved her so much he couldn’t bear to see her destroyed. Unable to live with himself, he married her, swore to protect her, and then imprisoned her for the rest of her life. Tormented by his contradictions, he then locked himself away as well. lan xichen agrees.

lan wangji and lan xichen were raised without their parents—largely, they were raised by their upright uncle, who, due to his brother’s behavior, took up the responsibilities of sect leader and parent at the same time. (It’s really no wonder that lan qiren has such a vicious dislike for wei wuxian: he loves lan wangji so much, and he’s so afraid to watch the child he raised repeat history. Beyond that, I think it’s pretty safe to say that lan qiren probably harbors not insignificant resentment towards his brother for the harm he did to both his children and to lan qiren himself.) Lan qiren is not married and as far as we know, never has any romantic entanglements after he begins raising the lan brothers. So where does that leave lan wangji and lan xichen in terms of models for romance? All they have is the fraught relationship between their parents.

lan wangji is not good with words. He expresses himself primarily through action, which we see time and time again. When lan wangji says to lan xichen, “there’s someone I want to take back to the cloud recesses. take them back and hide them away,” I think he’s trying to explain (with words) his feelings for wei wuxian in the only way he knows how: by making a reference to the only romantic relationship to which he and lan xichen were firsthand witnesses. lan xichen canonically understands wangji better than pretty much everyone: he sees straight through him at Biling lake when he invites wei wuxian and jiang cheng along to hunt the water spirits because he knows lan wangji wants wei wuxian to come. He asks if he wants loquats even when wangji refuses them. So when lan wangji says that, lan xichen first repeats the statement carefully to make sure he understands what’s at stake, and then he says something very crucial: “you only fear that he isn’t willing”.

I think this says a lot— specifically, that both lan xichen and lan wangji understand firsthand the pain their father caused and what exactly was wrong about it. I think what lan wangji is saying between the lines is, “I’m in love with someone. I want to take them home with me. I want to hide them away from the world to protect them. I fear this makes me like our father, whose love led him to do such terrible things to our mother, and by extension, to us and our uncle. I can’t repeat his mistakes.” And lan xichen, understanding all of that, gets to the heart of lan wangji’s inner conflict: wei wuxian is not willing, and lan wangji refuses to follow in his father’s footsteps, no matter how tormented he feels about the person he loves, no matter how much he wants to.

Every time lan wangji tries and fails to get wei wuxian to return with him to gusu, it’s with the intention of trying to help him, trying to protect him from the other sects, trying to pull him back before he does something unforgivable, much like his father’s motivations for bringing his mother back to gusu (“he swore that this was his beloved wife and that anyone who wished to hurt her [for her crimes] would have to go through him”), but unlike his father, lan wangji never forces wei wuxian to do anything. He never keeps him locked up, never forcibly kidnaps him. Not only that, but lan wangji is also willing to fight wei wuxian when he believes that wei wuxian is doing something inadmissible: heis the only one to stand against his initial forays into demonic cultivation, and physically confronts him on the roof at the nightless city. Would he have actually followed through on killing him, had things gone differently? Maybe, maybe not, but at the very least, it shows that he, unlike his father, was willing to try to destroy the person he loved when he crossed the line.

Anon, you’re right that there’s a parallel between the lan parents and wangxian, but I think the key is how they parallel each other. Lan wangji doesn’t repeat his father’s mistakes. When he finally does bring wei wuxian back to gusu and hide him away to protect him, wei wuxian is not there against his will, and, I think also importantly, lan wangji is with him. It’s no accident that lan wangji’s residence is the jingshi, the place his mother was imprisoned for his whole life, and it’s no accident that he brings wei wuxian there. But lan wangji doesn’t lock him there and abandon him like his father did with his mother: he’s there with him the whole time. Lan wangji, when all is said and done, is finally ready to stand by wei wuxian in spite of everything he did, unlike his father, who couldn’t do so with his wife: couldn’t destroy her, couldn’t stand with her. lan wangji makes his choice. “I regretted that I couldn’t stand with you at the nightless city.” The parallel is one that emphasizes contrast in spite of similarity.

All this ties vaguely into bigger themes present within the story, particularly the tensions between freedom/restriction and parents/children. These are like, two whole other essays haha, so I won’t get too deep into the weeds (unless you or anyone else wants to ask me!!! bc, anon, believe me, I would BE WILLING!!!) but:

1. lan wangji and wei wuxian are fundamentally very similar people, even if their personalities are not. They have incredibly strong moral compasses and want nothing more than to be righteous and to live with clear consciences about their choices. The difference is in how they go about that. wei wuxian chafes under rules, breaks them when he finds them unjust or unimportant, and thinks that he doesn’t deserve to be punished. When lan wangji finds that his moral compass conflicts with the rules he chooses to live by, he prioritizes his own sense of justice, much like wei wuxian, but he also accepts the punishments that are given to him without complaint. wei wuxian cherishes freedom over all while lan wangji lives under strict regulation, but the point is that they both take it too far. wei wuxian is righteous to the point of arrogance, flaunts his peers’ judgments and warnings to his eventual downfall. lan wangji, after doing what he thinks is right, allows himself to be punished without protest so severely he’s bedridden and imprisoned for three years. I would say neither of these approaches is… ideal, and I think that’s part of why wangxian feels so profound. They temper each other’s worst weaknesses. (rereading this, i’m not sure i’m 100% behind everything I just said lol, but again, an essay for another time)

2. Like lan wangji is paralleled with his father, wei wuxian is paralleled with his mother, zangse-sanren: free-spirited, mischievous, and ultimately meeting a tragic end for the choices she made out of that desire for freedom. He too is able to eventually escape his mother’s fate, just as lan wangji escapes his father’s. The parallels between parent and child are strong for almost all the mains, though not all of them manage to free themselves and achieve some measure of happiness, and this in itself relates to the even bigger questions of what matters more: your heritage, or your actions? Your heritage, or your upbringing? What can you do to avoid making the same mistakes as your predecessors?

I’ve already talked about this wrt wei wuxian and lan wangji, but the same goes for characters like jiang cheng, jin zixuan, wen qing, wen ning, mianmian, jin guangyao, su she, nie huaisang, jin ling, lan sizhui, ouyang zizhen, xiao xingchen, song lan, xue yang etc. like the list is endless. Part of why mdzs/the untamed is so heartwrenching is watching history repeat itself while the protagonists, who are also acutely aware, are nearly powerless to stop it. The juniors end up being the breaking from all that: willing to defy their parents, make their own decisions about right and wrong, recognize that a person’s actions should speak louder than the rumors that run on their account.

tl;dr: the lan parents’ relationship is toxic and hurtful to everyone around them. wangxian absolutely parallels it, but in a way that highlights how they differ from their predecessors, tying into larger thematic issues of the story.

eek that was almost 2k words yikes!! I hope my enthusiastic rambling helped you see that “take them back, hide them away” line in a different light haha, but I want to say again: you’re not obligated to take my interpretation as fact, and you also don’t have to think everything about wangxian is perfect to still like it. We all consume and like imperfect stories! I totally get your feelings on weird power dynamics/inequalities in relationships because… it’s abusive? it’s terrible? It hurts to see?? esp given what you said about your own experience, like yeah, for sure!!! but for me? when lan wangji says, “I want to take someone back to the cloud recesses—take them back, hide them away”, it reads as a really powerful, self-aware expression of what it means for someone like him to fall in love.

EDIT 16 APR 2020: I find myself only agreeing with ~85% of this after many months of reflection. /o\ *hides face* leaving it as-is because it’s what I wrote at the time, but! you know. I have changed some of my views.

#the untamed #mdzs #mo dao zu shi #wangxian #陈情令 #魔道祖师 #meta #mine #anonymous #asks and replies #this is so long i'm so sorry!!!#this is also an open invitation for everyone to come talk to me about the untamed/mdzs #please #let me put my literary and film analysis training to any use at all please #mymeta

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