#i love kuvira as a character and a villain but.......... | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

comradekatara · 11 days

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It’s me again, and I’ve got another ask for ya @comradekatara

And no stupid pol meme’s that I gave only a cursory glance too and stupidly screenshotted this time!

I’ve seen a few of your post (at least I think it was your’s) about LOK. So I was wondering. In regard to the main villains, who is your least favorite/most disliked?

And what would you change about their motivations and perhaps their “villainous” means to make them a more compelling and/or sympathetic character?

lol this is a pretty big ask. i mean basically every villain in lok is completely incoherent thematically, politically, ideologically. people will call amon a communist but he doesn’t actually give a shit about economics or class in any capacity. people call unalaq a theocrat but as far as im aware he isn’t exploiting people’s spiritual faith to gain power, (maybe that’s what he was doing at first, but) he literally wants to submerge the world into “darkness” for one million years for… reasons and purposes. unalaq/vaatu is by far the worst lok villain, but that’s not even saying much because it’s so patently ridiculous and cartoonish. the red lotus are actually compelling but they also love chaos for the sake of chaos (because anarchism!) and want to violently murder a teenage girl and hold a genocided people hostage to do so (despite zaheer’s supposed respect for air nomads). and kuvira is an ethnonationalist who declares herself emperor, so i guess she’s at least a somewhat coherent portrait of a real type of person who actually exists, but the fact that the fascist despot is the ONLY character who points out that republic city was built on colonized earth kingdom land is um….. not a great look?

and then side characters like tarrlok, hiroshi, varrick, queen hou-ting, suyin(???), wu(???) who aren’t really the primary villains even though in many ways they’re more ideologically coherent, are just also kind of weird for their ambiguous framing. like hou-ting is literally kidnapping airbenders and putting them in underground labor camps where they’re tortured and ruthlessly trained into forming an army, which is something that chaisee does in the yangchen novels and is regarded as utterly reprehensible and heinous for it (because it is), whereas we’re supposed to feel bad for hou-ting when she dies because murder is bad uwu. and we’re supposed to forgive hiroshi for [checks notes] attempted filicide. and varrick is just some fun wacky little guy who is a ruthlessly amoral capitalist but also he does the charleston! and isn’t him marrying his overworked, exploited assistant cute?? and not at all grossly misogynistic and horrifying???? LOL!

so i don’t think going through every villain and antagonist individually and imbuing them with depth is really a worthy use of time, since the show largely suffers from incoherence due to the fact that it isn’t cohesive at all. besides korra’s character development (which is excellent), there’s no real central idea that ties every season together. take atla instead: it’s a very linear narrative, with an established goal that is always being worked towards and once it’s ultimately completed, the show ends. lok has no idea what that central goal is. so instead of trying to fix every character, it’s better to work from the center out and first simply define that goal. the central political tension in lok is, fundamentally, a question of whether it is better to alter the status quo in various radical ways, or whether it is better to maintain the violently upheld hegemonic norm by virtue of it being the status quo (and spoiler alert, it’s the latter!). and these radical ways, whether it be the terrorist movement of a fraudulent right wing populist dictator, or the terrorist movement of a bunch of commies, is always presented as equally dangerous and in need of korra’s gaggle of cops, liberals, and capitalists to suppress. what a great show.

however, the lok that lives in my head does away with most of that, and simply focalizes the conflict between the white lotus and the red lotus as diametrically opposing forces both vying to control korra’s position in the world as avatar and reconstitute her legacy on their terms. because korra’s arc is fundamentally about learning to define her selfhood and her role in the world on her own terms, and the one commonality between every villain is that they’re trying to suppress or control her identity in some way. because it’s also, incidentally, a show primarily concerned with the value of identity politics, and doesn’t actually give a shit about any of the class struggles that underpin the show’s worldbuilding and inform so many of its primary characters. so while i’m not opposed to korra’s struggle of identity, and in fact appreciate it a lot and find it personally affirming in multiple ways, korra deserves a show that is actually worthy of her brilliance as a character.

it’s not that korra shouldn’t struggle to establish her identity on her own terms, but that the politics through which they attempt to communicate this struggle are incoherent. so i would simply reframe the conflict as one primarily between the white lotus, who are reformist liberals at best, and neoconservative reactionaries at worst. we see the best of the white lotus in atla (arguably), and the worst of the white lotus in the yangchen novels (which are fascinating and excellent and everyone should read them). xai bau is only ever mentioned in a single exposition dump (in one of the only truly great episodes of lok, i might add), but his philosophy and role in the narrative is nonetheless fascinating to me. the idea that the white lotus becomes more public facing after the war, leading to its detractors also growing more vocal, is genuinely interesting. the conflicts established between the white and red lotuses are genuinely compelling (to a point). but they never truly address how the white lotus kept korra locked away in a compound for the first 17 years of her life, they never meaningfully address the harm the white lotus has done to her and to the world.

like, of course korra couldn’t master airbending, the element of freedom, if she’s never been truly free. korra spent her entire life in a gilded cage, her role in the world and legacy defined for her by liberals who wanted her to be some kind of supercop instead of a genuine spiritual leader. it’s not korra’s fault that spirituality and harmony and meditation are difficult for her, she was literally denied those facets of herself for her entire adolescence. the white lotus constitute a microcosm of the ruthless neoliberal society korra encounters when first arriving in republic city. the white lotus are a metonym for the liberal identity politics centrist reformist vision of the world that lok uncritically presents as the ideal. in a better show, korra would question those systems, disavow them, and even perhaps attempt to dismantle them. korra would define her freedom of self on her own terms by realizing the ways in which the white lotus and their broader ideology has harmed her.

that said, the red lotus is also flawed. and i don’t just mean because they’re chaos-hungry terrorists who love to murder with impunity, but because they’re in the business of denying korra’s agency as a human being and not simply as the avatar. they want korra dead because they don’t believe in the role she embodies. and you know, they can want that for understandable political reasons without being completely evil about it, but obviously in a show as facile and shallow as lok, no they can’t. i think that korra’s brief pause in considering zaheer’s point of view should have lasted longer. i think that korra should have become disillusioned by the white lotus and the stipulations of capitalism (as early as book 1, frankly), and she should have genuinely considered joining them. and once she does eventually disavow them too, it’s not because of their evil commie politics, but because they’re also in the business of dictating her role in the world, and korra can’t stand to be boxed in by anyone, certainly not from people who claim to be in the business of dissolving borders.

so pretty much every villain in lok would fall under either the umbrella of white lotus operatives (whether direct or indirect) or red lotus (whether direct or indirect). people who want korra to be the world’s ultimate cop who upholds the systems that benefit them, or people who think that the avatar has no place in a truly just world, for (honestly) kind of valid reasons. the red lotus would be antagonists who work against korra’s arc of establishing her own freedom and agency, but the white lotus would be the “villains.” and the capitalist juggernauts who mistreat and exploit their workers (and their assistants and their daughters etc etc) would not be let off the hook so easily either. the neocolonial tensions in republic city wouldn’t be framed as an issue of the distant past. the issues of class and colonialism would be foregrounded alongside korra’s struggle to establish her identity. and then, perhaps, the narrative would finally cohere.

#745voiceofthepeople #asks #lok crit #analysis #korra #white lotus #red lotus #oh lok that lives in my head…… save me korra save me…..

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burst-of-iridescent · 11 months

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so i just went through your entire anti-lok tag and everything you said in it was SO WELL WRITTEN. i wanted to ask if you might have any analyses or anything (or just good old rants! we love being bryke haters) - about something that i noticed, which is this sort of... ATLA/TLOK dichotomy between how all aang's villains seem to be focused on gaining power/dominating the world or whatever, but the villains in TLOK seem to revolve around very pointed targeting of korra and specifically stripping her of her agency/bodily autonomy, but i don't know how to expand on that point.

(idk just. TLOK has a whole list of scenes that make me VIOLENTLY uncomfortable in a way even the worst of ATLA doesn't? and i thought you might have some input to share about it, if you don't mind me asking)

thank you sm!! i'm glad you enjoy my lok and bryke salt <33

i know what you mean, because it's something that struck me when i was watching lok as well. korra's villains are far more personal to her (particularly in what they do to her, or want from her) than azula or ozai or even zhao ever were to aang, and while that isn't necessarily a bad thing (in fact it can often be good to have a personal relationship between your hero and villain; just look at how much more impactful and meaningful zuko and azula's arc was compared to aang and ozai's), there is a way to do it right and that was... not what bryke did.

we didn't need to see korra brutally bloodbent and stripped of her bending, or brutally attacked by unalaq, or brutally tortured by the red lotus or - you got it - brutally beaten up by kuvira (over and over again, might i add). i'm not saying that violence never has its place in storytelling, but it needs to have an actual purpose that's not just shock value. atla, for instance, knew when and how to utilise violence: the sight of gyatso's skeleton in the southern air temple, aang's murder by azula, even katara bloodbending... the violence in all of those scenes was necessary either to communicate vital information to the audience, or drive home the emotive and narrative significance of the moment, or both.

in lok though, bryke hardly, if ever, achieved either of these objectives - especially because it was mainly only ever korra who got the brunt of the violence. no other character is repeatedly targeted and assaulted and violated even half as much as korra is, even when they're facing the same antagonists. tenzin's fight against the red lotus in book 3 gets a tasteful pan to black (one of the few times i think bryke did use violence purposefully; knowing what not to show is just as important as knowing what to show, and leaving the audience with the dread of tenzin's fate was actually sadder and more terrifying than letting us see what happened to him) but korra's agonizing torture at the hands of the red lotus is so long and drawn-out that it begins to veer into torture porn.

imo, this can probably be attributed to two things: 1) bry.ke thinking trauma = character development because they don't know how else to write a good character arc (and they still somehow fucked it up - i will never forgive them for making korra thank zaheer, of all people, for helping her overcome her trauma, like what the absolute fuck bry.ke), and 2) they wanted lok to be "more mature" than atla, which shows both that they fundamentally didn't understand atla, or what constitutes good storytelling, and also that someone desperately needs to tell them that simply upping the violence and hamfistedly handling "complex" topics does not maturity make.

(given the way bryke has written women, i also have to side-eye the fact that the strong-willed, independent, brown female protagonist is beaten and battered and torn down far more than the peaceful, affable light-skinned male protagonist ever is, even during an actual war.)

and of course, contrary to what our dear bryke probably expected, simply brutalizing korra season after season in the name of shock value and development did not, to anyone else's surprise, make lok the better show in the end.

#anti lok #anti bryke #apologies for how long it took me to get to this ask! thank you for being so patient <3 #as an aside i see your tags and comments on my posts a lot and i always love reading them #please feel free to let me know more of your thoughts anytime! <3

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theshadowrealmitself · 1 year

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I heard somewhere awhile ago that the LoK writers had no idea if they’d get another season after each season, so that’s why in the show every season gets their stuff wrapped up by the season finale to avoid cliffhangers in case they couldn’t get the show renewed

So I was thinking about that, and my ideal version of LoK if they had been able to have more overarching stuff because I really fucking love the waterbender brothers:

Starts off the same with Amon and the Equalizers, but they aren’t gone by the end of season 1, instead they’re a constant background threat

Season 2 also has the same villain it had, except, Tarrlok is still alive and instead of just getting a sad backstory for him to make him a sympathetic antagonist, he gets to work with Korra against her shitty fucking uncle, and we get to see him react to another waterbender being a corrupt piece of shit and actually see how he tries to be good and different from his dad in his own way

I think this would be fun as I like Tarrlok as a character, I think he’d fucking hate Unalaq and I’d love to see him take out his father issues on the guy, and Korra would have to deal with the fact that she can’t trust her uncle who she’s supposed to be able to trust but apparently she can trust the sleazy councilman who by all rights is untrustworthy??

Season 3/4 also has Kuvira, except for these parts, it’s Amon who’s the unlikely ally Korra occasionally ends up teaming up with, cause there’s no way that nonbenders didn’t end up getting really screwed over under Kuvira’s reign, this would give Amon his chance to show that he’s also trying to be better than his father in his own fucked up way, and again it’d have that delightful thing of Korra ending up teaming up with someone she never would’ve thought she would

Throughout all seasons, we’d see laws and stuff being put in place to help nonbenders, and also I think it’d be cool if throughout all seasons it’s kind of hard to fully tell if Asami is actually trustworthy or not because the entire time she’s being a double agent for Team Avatar

Also I think it’d be cool if the show ended up with Korra facing off against Amon, who wanted to stop the Avatar cycle, as the first Avatar of the new cycle (I’m a firm believer in that theory that she was always meant to become the first avatar of the new cycle, there was only one more space for Aang’s statue in that temple!!), showing him how futile and stupid his stance of getting rid of the Avatar was

#legend of korra #lok #korra #tarrlok #Amon #noatak #unalaq #asami sato #kuvira #both me and my lil sis fucking love the waterbender brothers #kinda long post sorry #had a couple of asks I wanted to respond to but oh my god I’m so much more tired than I thought I was #fuck I hope this post is legible #really hope it’s not one of those things where I reread it in the morning and every other word is a typo

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cold-neon-ocean · 1 month

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What compels you about Baatar Jr.?

Oh goodness, I do love talking about why I like him I cannot lie! (foreshadowing for the length of this, I come back to ominously warn retrospectively..)

Honestly even back when the show was initially airing, he was a character I always liked. Being big into anime in middle and high school I was 100% a "megane man" enjoyer lol which is just to glasses men XD (they get a special genre title because they are apparently very popular in Japanese anime communities which honestly, based) so that was the first thing (not to mention he's voiced by Todd Haberkorn who I knew from anime dubs since he's in so many).

But okay so what I find compelling about Baatar. I think he had such potential to be a very interesting character and one that could have been really put to use in the story. He had such interesting groundwork to me, especially in tandem with Kuvira. You can always trust me to stan the troubled eldest sibling lol, in Baatar's particular case I call it "eldest sibling inferiority complex" (idk if anyone has coined that phrase but I'm claiming it until proven otherwise) but it's something I relate to a lot. Baatar being the first "heir" essentially of the metal bending capitol of the world, founded by the metal bending daughter of the inventor of metal bending itself Toph Beifong, and he isn't a bender in any regard is something I think about way too much, I don't care whatever way you slice it I know that must have SUCKED for him because he was just.. inherently kind of a disappointment? Like he came into the world with the "Oh, shame he isn't a bender." tagline on his life. And then the brother he gets soon after IS a metal bender which I can imagine practically felt like an instant replacement because he wasn't "enough". Ofc that may not have been why Su and Sr. had Huan but I can see Baatar feeling that way. Then the twins ofc have metal bending and Opal later on gets air bending and he's just pushed further and further into irrelevance in the family. Like history will always talk about the Beifong family, the inventors and masters of metal bending, Suyin's younger sons all being prodigies in their own right, her daughter later being blessed with air bending, but what would ever be said about Baatar? He was just "the one who was a non-bender". I thought so so much about how being in a position like that would feel. And even the framing of the writing of the show itself always felt so dismissive of him. When Su is introducing all her kids he gets the least mention, no one ever says his name even, he only has 3 scenes in the entirety of season 3 and only in 1 is he even animated. It just always felt rather sad to me, he really was in line to just become the Beifong family's forgotten son.

I've talked about how I wish something had been said with Baatar and Huan and how starkly contrasting they are. Baatar feels trapped in his father's shadow with nothing of his own, not his own name, nothing of his own to leave an impact with and just quietly relegating himself to the background, meanwhile Huan is so obsessed with his self expression and individuality. I can imagine Huan seeing Baatar and how miserable he was when they were younger and not wanting to end up like that so he takes a hard turn into the opposite direction.

I really think Baatar was the perfect character to bring back the discussion of disparity between benders and non-benders, from a villain standpoint of course, because he is a character who- even from his seat of clear privilege, still has to deal with the effects of it. Like the world of Avatar really is for benders and non-benders are just allowed to live in it. I don't think Baatar actually wants bending, I actually think quite the opposite. I think he just doesn't want to be seen as lesser than for not having it, and prove that he doesn't need it in his life. That's why I love the setup of his relationship with Kuvira so much. I genuinely think the two of them were accidentally written and created so perfect for each other and the writers just.. did it by sheer accident and didn't even notice and thus squandered them completely. They give each other exactly what the other needs. Kuvira wants acceptance and to feel genuinely wanted which Baatar gives her, and Baatar wants recognition and to feel appreciated for who he is and that's what Kuvira gives him. She is one of the most skilled metal benders in the world but grew up in a family that didn't want her or care about her (ignoring Ruins entirely, Ruins of the Empire my beloathed), and Baatar grew up in one of the richest families in the world, the family whose whole identity is metal-bending, born into the lap of luxury but was still written off somewhat because he was a non-bender and thus the family legacy really didn't have anything to do with him. And when Su takes Kuvira under her wing they're both living in what is considered a "utopia" but are both still unhappy because they always feel "outside" of it, and they are able to relate to each other in that way and validate each others' feelings. Having Kuvira choose him- someone considered very remarkable choosing someone most consider very unremarkable, and him being the first person to ever genuinely truly want her and all of her is my Roman Empire, it is the hill I will die on. Like idk how the LoK writers had all that literally right in front of them and chose to do nothing with it, it bothers me so much lol.

Baatar descending (ascending truly in my opinion lol) into his villain era when he is finally away from home because he is reacting out of spite, paranoia, and existential dread because this is his chance to be known for something in his own right and not for anything to do with his family and slowly becoming the instrument of his own destruction is my bread and butter, I love it so much. I hate the fanon that he left Zaofu only to pad after Kuvira, I truly think he saw his one chance to leave with someone he cares about and financial stability and took it. I don't think he's very altruistic, like if I'm being frank I don't think he gives a hoot or a holler about the Empire itself LOL like he is absolutely here to support Kuvira and help her achieve her goals but to him the Empire is just something he can cultivate to facilitate himself and his needs. It's more of a symbiotic relationship to him where he'll always prioritize himself but will do what he needs to to keep the host happy. I do think that when he initially left he DID have good intentions they just were also very self serving, and then as time went on he leaned further and further into the self serving and see's himself as "doing the right thing for them because it is the right thing for me so no one can get mad :)" lol like yes darling, you are the moment, give us everything and nothing. I love love love the thought of him really leaning into the fame and attention because he's actually getting recognition, people are interested in what he's doing, he has the facilities to work on things he wants to work on, and can really just do as he pleases. One thing you will not see me do is say that he was trying his best for the Empire's sake the whole time lol like the man truly was out here in his Applause by Lady Gaga era. The idea that he does in fact do good for the people but for selfish reasons is just so funny to me. He's like "Do you think I'm out here bringing running water and irrigation to rural towns out of the goodness of my heart? No bitch, I'm just not about to get giardia in the name of freedom." LMAOO like yeah he is a little bit wretched but I'm still stanning, I'm still streaming, my shower is working so I have to thank him. Like I do genuinely find the idea of "guy who is doing good things for selfish reasons but is still doing good things regardless" very interesting to think about. Like what does it matter where his heart is at if he's still doing humanitarian work because it provides him in return with accolades and material wealth lmao. In his case though I can see him melting a bit when he sees the good impact his work can have but he has to keep up his big sassy bitch face bc he has a reputation to maintain.

Also withing the Empire era, that is like my peak Baatar contemplation era because wow it was so rife with potential for him. A non-bender being second in command of what was probably the biggest military force in the world at the time must have been an insane line for him to walk. Because all his authority is superficial. Because Kuvira gave it to him and for almost no other reason. No matter what he does, he will always be weaker than the weakest bender inherently, but he still has to command respect because everyone KNOWS THAT. Him walking through their camps he literally has his life on the line at every second because anyone could just decide to kill him at any moment for no reason and there's nothing he could do to defend himself. So he has to be smart, he has to be scary, he has to be mean, he has to be intimidating because if he doesn't he has nothing else to shield himself with. He can't let his anxiety over it show either because every bender would be able to hear it through the ground. The idea of Baatar having genuine anxiety regarding benders all his life is something that is so important to me. Even in his own home, his heart rate couldn't be something that was private. I love to hc that he quickly learned to become an Azula tier liar like you could never catch him lying because he needed to learn how otherwise his own emotions couldn't even be private. Aiwei could never catch this man and he hated it so much lol Baatar loved every second of it. He would just say lies to Aiwei's face and they both would know he was lying but Aiwei couldn't ever really know and it made him so mad.

I really do think a lot of what Baatar does comes from a place of genuine hurt, and wanting to feel like he has some form of control in his life and he expresses it through anger because his anger is the only power he feels like he has but he lets it eat away at him until he just has this void in him that will never be satisfied. He wants his family to understand how he feels, why he feels so hurt, and for them to acknowledge it, but he needs them to realize it themselves without him saying it because if he has to tell them then it must not be real. Plus how could they understand when they're free of the experience that makes him feel this way. They'll never know that feeling of being a disappointment on arrival. Opal did, but she's beyond it all now. Thinking about his relationship with his father, I think he actually loves his father so much, he was a daddy's boy from day one and still is, he wants his father to feel similarly as himself, not the anger but just acknowledge that "yes, the world really does revolve around benders, and it's okay that you feel scared and unnerved by that reality, there's nothing wrong with your feelings it's okay for you to have them" but his father doesn't feel that way and Baatar takes it as almost a kind of betrayal. In his mind he needs that shared experience because it tells him that if someone else feels like this then his feelings are real and he isn't just making shit up, he can feel that way even if he never acts on it, just knowing someone else feels the same. He doesn't go about it in a healthy way at all and I am by no means defending his actions or blaming his family for everything bad that he's done, you'll never catch me doing that, Baatar 100% engineers his own downfall by choosing to feed into his anger for catharsis. The fact that he did everything he ever did because he didn't want to be forgotten by history, only to get his wish, he'll indeed be remembered forever, but remembered as the engineer of monstrosities is the perfect poetic irony to me and his most perfect kind of villain arc in my eyes. He is so consumed by his anger and paranoia. His fear of being forgotten by time because to him being forgotten means there was never any point to his existence to begin with.

Also okay yes let us briefly discuss my buff Baatar lol I do have reason for it I swear! So okay yes, I do that for me because I love big beefy glasses men okay, sue me, i am indeed an animal in that way. But also I do think it just kinda makes sense for him??? Like he is someone with some clear anger issues and exercise is in fact a very good way to relieve anger and stress. I think it's funny that he just gave that a try because he needed to vent his anger on something and it became his primary anger management and now he's just massive lol but also this is also him making a statement of like "I can take my body even this far but I'd still always be at an inherent disadvantage", he'd have a lot of reasons for doing it- his own vanity, his self-esteem of always feeling unimpressive or unremarkable, wanting to feel like he could in even the smallest way be something of a protective force for Kuvira. Plus him having the kangaroo effect on people between seasons 3 and 4 is so funny, where when people think about kangaroos they're like "aaw cute lill hoppy fellas c:"(season 3) and then they actually see a kangaroo and are like "bitch what the fuck is that"(season 4) lmao like have you seen how jacked kangaroos actually are? Everyone is like "Yeah we know what Baatar looks like" and then they see him for the first time in season 4 and are like "Who the fuck is that?" LMAOO Also yeah he just looks nice that way to me.

God I just scrolled up this to see where I was at and this ended up way longer than I intended alksjdf I'll stop myself here I'm so sorry, I just truly cannot Shut Up about this man. He genuinely means so much to me. For so long I didn't talk about liking him or did any art of him because in the early days of the fandom and even relatively recently, the hate for him was so... vitriolic and cruel it genuinely made me so uncomfortable. I'd see rare pieces of fanart of him and the comments would always have people expressing their hate for him in them, I've even gotten comments like that on my own art. It really has always baffled me tbh, even the writers and Bryan himself are not shy about talking about their hate for him, one of the s4 episode writers called him "the worst character in the entire franchise" and it just hurts my heart so much. Like they wrote him already down and just continue kicking him while he's there like they weren't the ones who put him there. In that way Baatar's spite and anger feels almost all encompassing as corny as that sounds. I just love angry sad men and Baatar is the angriest saddest man of my heart haha if he has no fans I am dead. I really cannot express how much it means to me to hear that people have become to like him more because of my portrayal of him, I've even had people who used to hate him tell me they love him now because of me and I truly could cry about it, I really could.

#Ask Matsu #LoK Thoughts #Baatar Jr.#[ if you read this whole thing I appreciate you so much lol #I really did just start typing then blacked out and when I came to there was all this :'D #I now really embrace my love for him he truly is my guy #I can safely say he is my favorite fictional character of all time #no other character holds the place in my heart that he does and yes I'll say that with my whole chest as ridiculous as that sounds haha #me at Baatar: you're beautiful you're amazing and you never did anything wrong my darling you're a star #Baatar: has done so much wrong has created horrors beyond imagine in fact ]

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balanceoflightanddark · 2 years

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Kuvira and Bryke's Problem with Moral Ambiguity

I will be honest with you...I really like Kuvira.

She is probably one of my favorite characters from Legend of Korra. I like her design. I like a lot of the ideas behind her. And I think Zelda Williams did a great job with the character. So I can understand why Bryke wanted to do something different with her and try to redeem her.

Here's the problem. I love Kuvira...but she's also indicative of one of the show's biggest problems. Mainly the inability to commit to a morally ambiguous conflict.

Again, the whole point of Kuvira's character was that she wasn't a wholly irredeemable monster. That her methods, while heavy handed, weren't entirely in the wrong and her heart was in the right place. And we do see evidence of that early on with her forces giving relief to billages, stamping out bandits, and outing corrupt officials. Heavy handed and early warning signs sure, but nothing too over the top.

Then they made her into a power hungry dictator.

Yeah. Kind of hard to sell her as sympathetic when she takes imagery from real life oppressive and fascist political parties and governments.

Sad thing is, Kuvira here is not the exception to this. Throughout The Legend of Korra, we are presented with many antagonistic groups that are responding to some injustice or moral qualm which doesn't paint the current status quo the heroes are defending in a good light. Non-bender discrimination led to Amon and the Equalists. Unalaq was a response to mankind losing touch with the Spirit World. The Red Lotus were spurned by corruption in high places. And Kuvira was restoring order to a broken Earth Kingdom full of anarchy. It's clear that Bryke intended for all of these groups and characters to have some kind of point to generate moral ambiguity. Asking whether or not Korra and Co were truly in the right.

Yet when it came time to deliver, the antagonists were almost always portrayed as being in the wrong and often were portrayed in a way that makes it difficult for the audience to truly sympathize with them. The Equalists and the Red Lotus become terrorists. Amon is a bender with flimsy reasonings. Unalaq literally fuses with the Avatar equivalent of Satan. And again, Kuvira becomes a dictator. While their points are given some credence, the characters themselves always become a final boss for the heroes to triumphantly defeat. Which...muddies the message since it becomes difficult to see the villains' argument when they're treated the way they are.

Now admittedly, it is difficult to write a character like this. Balancing out the character's reasonable and sympathetic traits with the need to be an opposing force to the protagonists who audiences are normally predisposed to root for. So the question remains: how do you go about finding this equilibrium?

While I'm not a professional writer, I can think of at least two good methods. The first is allowing the antagonist to do genuinely good things that seems at odds with their position. This could include a concern for civilians or their comrades, limiting their violence, or throwing themselves in the line of danger for the sake of others. Kuvira does demonstrate this a few times with sending relief to civilians who need it or choosing to face down the Avatar herself rather than ordering her men to do it.

The second is actually giving a concrete reason for why the antagonist is escalating things. Maybe the situation is just that bad where the antagonist feels the need to escalate or is a response to something that the heroes did. Perhaps the antagonist's grievances are legitimate and they have a solid reason to fight. Again, this is explored with Prince Wu's incompetence and the attempted assassination on Kuvira's life by Suyin. While her methods are heavy handed, you could see why she may need to employ them.

The foundations for a solid character are there. If they expanded on that, we could've had a fairly compelling conflict where neither side is entirely in the right nor are they in the wrong.

And then they introduced re-education camps and had Kuvira invent the Avatar equivalent of an atomic bomb.

Uh...hate to be that guy, but why the hell is Kuvira sympathetic again? Especially when other villains who did far less evil get crapped on while she gets a redemption arc in the comics?

glares at what they did with Azula

...I'm sorry but no. Korra wouldn't have ever turned out to be a fascist And trying to say the villain can be redeemed because they're like the hero raises so many flags for the franchise as a whole that I'm surprised they didn't do the same with Ozai. What? He's who Zuko would've ended up as if he went too far.

I get what they were getting at with Kuvira. I really do. And with better writing, maybe she could've been that character I mentioned. The groundworks are all there. But the problem they ran in was consistency and commitment. They failed to keep her sympathy and anti-villain status consistent by making her too horrible to properly feel for. And they never actually committed to fostering this morally ambiguous conflict.

Trust me, I'm not knocking against Kuvira and her fans. I'm really not. I understand the appeal. I even think a lot of her fans have better interpretations and ideas than Bryke (trust me, Kuvira has some pretty good fanfics out there). But if they wanted to redeem who we saw in the series, we needed more than a single comic trilogy. Especially when other characters don't even get a chance at that.

#kuvira #lok critical #lok salt #i guess #kuvira meta #anti bryke #anti lok comics

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gritsandbrits · 6 months

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What would you change about Legend of Korra, to make it a better story?… Personally, I would NOT make bloodbending more overpowered then it already is (doing it without a full moon + taking away bending + doing bending without hands?!?)… I would also get rid of the ‘Dark Avatar’… I would also make all the Main Characters still alive (except Aang, of course) and they all helped train Korra … And Korra would never cheat on anybody! 🌊

The plot would still involve a dark avatar but it's very clear to be an impostor and fails in every single way. Each side (Red Lotus, Kuvira) tries to create their own avatar or give themselves extra power but it fails spectacularly

Actually, give the villains more personality i feel lik they were bland

Katara gets her own statue and play a bigger role by actively training Korra; she also has a mobile healing operation

Bumi II doesn't get airbender powers

Lin isn't demonized for being upset at Suyin. Instead have it where Suyin accidentally scars Lin's face and feels genuinely apologetic for it. Toph defends Lin and exiles Suyin so she can learn to control her temper. From there Lin learns to see hee sister has changed for the better, and Suyin learns to face her fear.

Mako gets more character development. I don't know how he just does

Bolin gets to stand up to Eska

Asami has more in the story

Iroh II is a main character, his arc is learning that needs to participate more and not let his nation's history hold him back he also meets great aunt Azula

Korra gets called out a lot more for her actions and learn from them, there's an arc where she learns bloodbending but in a twist she learns to use it for healing (say Asami gets badly injured and Korra heals her)

The romance is bare minimum. No love triangles.

We meet the other characters too like Sokka and Suki and their brood, with all of their kids being waterbenders. Mai is confirmed to be Izumi's mother, and Kiyi was confirmed to be officially adopted into the royal family, which brings us more relatives.

Tone down the violence some of it was not needed im sorry eek

Give Korra brown eyes purely out of spite

There is no romantic resolution Korra learns to love herself and others; she does crush on Asami and its left more open ended.

No convergence, instead it's more like "cracks"; random people start getting airbending powers albeit slow, due to the world naturally bringing it back it's still very minimal

AANG AND TOPH ARE NOT BAD PARENTS in fact Toph isn't even a cop but a probending coach.

Aang and Sokka also retain their features instead of being whitewashed.

#lok salt #anti lok #gb asks

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wilcze-kudly · 2 months

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Hi, I need to ramble about Korra villains and how terrifying and good they are.

First is Amon, a creepy cult leader who literally makes Korra's worst nightmare come true by taking away her power, all that she was - she never saw herself outside of her bending. He destroyed her. Then was Unalaq who manipulated her because he was her uncle and cut off her past lives (which must be devastatingly painful, by the way). Then the Lotus and Zaheer, who gave her years of trauma, and Kuvira, who Korra saw herself in.

My point is, they're all targetting and influencing her specifically. While Ozai just wanted to kill the avatar, as a figure, Korra's villains go after her specifically, using her personal weaknesses and psychologically torturing her. Because like, I remember seeing it at like 9, and Amon was fucking terrifying. The convulsions of people under bloodbending were scary, and so was his terror towards Korra. She had so much shit to deal with. And I love it! It makes the show psychological, esp s4, and I really saw my personal struggles in Korra so much it's insane.

Also unrelated but I actually love that Katara is not a famous warrior (no statues) but a quiet healer because 1. She's still alive and in contact with others so no statue and 2. She was fighting out of obligation, not hobby, and her main goal was always to help people in need. Nkthing wrong with her taking a more nurturing role as an old lady.

Also, mówisz po polsku?👀

I hear that! Tlok villains are one of teh highlights of the show. When i tell you that I had genuine nightmares about Amon... what a villain to start the show off with. Especially when Amon took Korra's bending and she was so obviously planning to kill herself.. like there's something so visceral about tlok villains

To Ozai, Aang was just an obstacle. But a lot of Korra's villains directly targeted her, to the point of her being the Red Lotus' main mark. I could ramble about tlok villains all day buy i think you said it very well.

And you're right about Katara, too. I know a lot of people hate how the Gaang was portrayed in tlok, but I really like it? Katara was a character who had a lot of rightful rage and pain in her from a young age, so seeing her just being able to do something that was so important to her, like healing people, is so sweet. She deserves to chill. Also I think, she may have a statue, or whatever, though she strikes me as the person who'd be least invested in having a statue. She's not dead or a world leader, technically. And Toph's statues was in front of the police station and in Zaofu, both places she had a lot of involvement with. Katara may have statues around hospitals, or in the southern water tribe culture centre. We haven't explored all of Republic City.

But even if she doesn't have a statue, that doesn't mean she isn't respected or revered in her own right.

Jasne, że mówię po polsku, urodziłem się i mieszkam w niej 🇵🇱

#katara #korra #legend of korra #tlok #avatar #the legend of korra #avatar the legend of korra #atlok

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linnorabeifong · 3 months

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I am wrong to believe that Varrick/Zhu Li is very rushed, and thus at best is toxic?

Cause I understand that TLOK had a very troubled production, but it seems odd that after essentially getting treating like shit for three seasons by Varrick, Zhu Li is fine with marrying Varrick just shortly after standing up for herself for the first time in their (platonic) relationship, no?

No same. Okay I dislike Varrick he’s funny and iconic sure but an ass, a shit person. In my eyes, he’s the ultimate villain. He’s a war profiteer. He literally bombed an art center and (attempted to) kidnapped a president to fatten his coffers and stole from Asami. He gets away with it all by running away, to Xafou. What a cop out. He treats Zhu Li horribly. He’s not likeable. He literally used Bolin. ( he also let sexual harassment fly on set poor Ginger) Took a sweet unsuspecting kid under his arms and used him to pump out propaganda. then he betrays Su by joining Kuvira and once again betrays his city by creating a weapon of mass destruction.

He is never called to account and no one really gets to express their anger towards him.

I love Zhu Li. But she has no self-respect. May be the reason she was his assistant, the whole time, and put up with all of it was because of her underlying feelings. I feel like it’s great that she stood up for herself, and their relationship could be cute if more time was taken to work on the problematic bits.

you are completely right to call out this weird relationship and others are right to enjoy it. Glad we agree it’s weird. The first time I watched the show I was confused by the wedding.

I think the reason they were married is because the show runners wanted a really happy final episode that really provided a sense of closure. What better way than a wedding ? But they couldn’t do that with any actual major characters, so why not just throw Zhu Li and Varrick together ?

maybe he’s better in the comics .

but in my honest opinion, he’s just as bad as Kuvira and it’s so hypocritical that he just gets to scamper off to a luxurious honey moon while she’s under house arrest.

[again this isn’t hate towards Varrick fans I’m literally a Kuvira Stan and am down bad for the bitter middle aged woman with anger issues who yells at dogs. You’re allowed to enjoy villainous characters. Fiction and reality are separate yada yada. ]

#legend of korra #zhu li #zhu li moon #varrick

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anghraine · 1 year

Text

I was just thinking of how fun it is when female characters are allowed to really viscerally enjoy power.

I'm thinking especially of cases when the character's power doesn't come from some MacGuffin, or a malevolent, psychologically damaging power like the Dark Side, or even an external source at all. I just really like the trope of female characters who are powerful because they're both talented and have put work into refining talent into skill, and who clearly enjoy using their very legitimate skill for their own ends, whatever the ends may be.

I was thinking of examples, and the first ones to come to mind were Korra and Kuvira from Legend of Korra, who I love both individually and as a ship. But part of the reason I enjoy both characters so much, hero and villain, is how much they enjoy being world-class benders.

Lots of people in that show are rightly confident about their power or abilities. But there's confidence and then there's the sheer enjoyment they have at being powerful benders who can and will wipe the earth with their foes, and it's just super enjoyable in this specific way I don't often see.

#toph and azula were also like that but ngl i enjoy it more from adult women #and a lot of times women who have power are grim and burdened about it or oppressed or it's illegitimately gained #but whatever else kuvira may be or have done—she got her metalbending/earthbending skills fair and square #and korra similarly has a natural flair for bending (esp metalbending actually) but is willing to put the work in #to be as good as she can #and it's a really fun dynamic layered in with the way kuvira represents korra's shadow-self and culminates in life rather than death #i.e. the first victory resulted in two very damaged men choosing to commit/accept murder-suicide as the solution #the final victory is korra risking the thing she's valued most about herself to save the life of her villainous double who also likes power #anyway #i wrote this at 6:30 am without tea so ...#anghraine babbles #anghraine's tropes #avatar #avatar: the legend of korra #korra #kuvira #otp: i see myself in you

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the-ravenclaw-werewolf · 11 months

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I would love see that! Tho I imagine some of the more dangerous ones are more far away. Tho like is villain organization also a part of this? Because I think it be interesting to see how some of them will reaction to how the other run. For example Shigaraki actually give the League of Villains more freedom and does treat them with respect. But someone like Muzan who is a control freak over Twelve Kizuki and willing to kill them off.

It would be interesting to see different teams of antagonists interact with each other. From arguing over their ideologies to trying to defend themselves (if they do at all) with their motives/backstory(s). Not the mentions the fights, like the Twelve Kizuki vs the League of Villains. (i.e. Toga vs Daiki or Dabi vs Doma)

Disclaimer:

However I, at first, tried to bring more than one villain from the same show since not all of these here are real antagonists, but then it would make watching these other shows pointless. And there will end up being more characters to keep track of. So I, and Entity, apologize in advance to all the normal people in this list.

(But whoever picks this up, it's up to them to do just 40 antagonists or pick just a few or more.)

(And remember, ALL of this is also subject to change since this just a bunch of ideas FUNINTHEEYEOFMADNESS and I came up together on the spot.)

🚨 THIS IS ALSO ANYONE'S MINOR SPOILER WARNING JUST IN CASE! YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED! 🚨

Title:

The Antagonist’s Role (Some Conventional)

or something else (In the title I’m trying to convey that these people are the antagonist to the protagonist, but some only fill in that role because of convention).

Synopsis:

Spin-off fic, (non-canon), where the Entity is feeling vindictive against the antagonists of the 40's stories, so it makes another dimension kidnaps the antagonists of the 40. It doesn’t want to take those who are innocent, but there will be an imbalance to the universes if it tries to take more than one from the same dimension, (excluding the 40).

Just like MCS (WE), it will be a reaction fic to their respective stories. However, since Entity wants to rub salt into the wound, the antagonist will also be reacting to what is happening with the 40 cast, showing that they are growing, healing, and all around just doing better than they are.

Characters:

Now some characters are obvious, but others are just antagonists by convention:

Cowboy Bebop: Vicious

Avatar: The Last Airbender: Ozai

Legend of Korra: Amon OR Unalaq OR Zaheer OR Kuvira

Ouran Highschool Host Club: Benio "Benibara" Amakusa (Everything about this woman wants to make me pull out my own hair!)

Death Note: Light Yagami

Black Butler: The Undertaker

Hetalia: Belarus (Listen… if RUSSIA is scared of her, then you need to run for the hills!)

Fullmetal Alchemist: Father

Blue Exorcist: Satan

Hunter x Hunter: Hisoka Morrow OR Chrollo Lucilfer OR Meruem

Kuroko’s Basketball: Daiki Aomine OR Seijūrō Akashi OR Makoto Hanamiya

Attack on Titan: Zeke Yeager

Danganronpa: Junko Enoshima

Free!: Rin Matsuoka (I know I shouldn’t do this to him, but he was an antagonist during the beginning.) OR Hiyori Tono (I still hate him for what he said to Haru!)

Kill la Kill: Ragyō Kiryūin

Haikyuu: Oikawa Tooru (I am not dissing him, I love his character! But he was the antagonist to beat.)

Assassination Classroom: The Reaper

Food Wars!: Azami Nakiri

One Punch Man: Garou

Erased: Gaku Yashiro

My Hero Academia: All for One OR Shigaraki

Mob Psycho 100: Toichiro Suzuki

Yuri on Ice: Jean-Jacques Leroy (I don’t hate him, but like some of the others, he is pretty much antagonistic to the cast of YOI.)

Kiss Him, Not Me: Takeru Mitsuboshi

The Disastrous Life of Saiki K: Kusuke Saiki

Miss Kobayashi Dragon Maid: Jida/Jii

The Royal Tutor: Ernst Rosenberg

Kakegurui: Kirari Momobami

Cells at Work: Cancer Cell

The Promised Neverland: Isabella OR Peter Ratri

Love is War: Oko Shinomiya

Fruits Basket: Akito Sohma

Demon Slayer: Muzan

Dr. Stone: The Whyman

Given: Ayano Kasai (I know she is not an antagonist, but she was a little antagonistic.)

Beastars: Melon

Welcome to Demon School Iruma Kun: Ami Kirio OR Baal

Toilet Bound Hanako-kun: Yugi Tsukasa

Jujutsu Kaisen: Sukuna OR Geto

SK8 the Infinity: Ainosuke Shindo/ADAM

Setting:

Instead of a mansion, the Entity makes a prison for them to stay in. There are three levels of the prison:

Level 1: Misplaced

These are characters where they go up against one of the 40/interact with them, but it doesn’t mean they are evil or mean, they just happened to be the antagonists of one of the 40’s stories. They are given actual rooms, their own bathrooms, good meals plus desserts, good clothes, and misc. items to entertain themselves. (Plus their own kitchen, gym, craft room, etc.)

(This will house:

Oikawa Tooru

Jean-Jacques Leroy

Ayano Kasai)

Level 2: Disciplined

It’s almost the same as Level 1 except they are the bad guys of their stories but they actually have shot at redemption. They will have their own room, but only with the bare necessities. They are still served food, but any desserts, misc. items, or any kind of reward will only be given if they actually work to redeem themselves.

(This will house:

Benio "Benibara" Amakusa

Belarus

Daiki Aomine OR Seijūrō Akashi OR Makoto Hanamiya

Rin Matsuoka OR Hiyori Tono

Garou

Takeru Mitsuboshi

Kusuke Saiki

Ernst Rosenberg

Kirari Momobami

Cancer Cell

Isabella (If you choose her)

Oko Shinomiya

The Whyman)

Level 3: DETAIN

There are the worst of the worse, monsters, villains, you name it. They will basically be treated like prisoners for their stay. All of them wear collars that not only block their powers but will shock them if they attempt to do anything remotely evil, violent, etc.

(This will house:

Vicious

Ozai

Amon OR Unalaq OR Zaheer OR Kuvira

Light Yagami

The Undertaker

Father

Satan

Hisoka Morrow OR Chrollo Lucilfer OR Meruem

Zeke Yeager

Junko Enoshima

Ragyō Kiryūin

The Reaper

Azami Nakiri

Gaku Yashiro

All for One OR Shigaraki

Toichiro Suzuki

Jida/Jii

Peter Ratri (If you choose him)

Akito Sohma

Muzan

Melon

Ami Kirio OR Baal

Yugi Tsukasa

Sukuna OR Geto

Ainosuke Shindo/ADAM)

All levels are separated by another floor, with Level 3 in the basement to Level 1 at the top. There is around the clock monitoring thanks to Indigo and they are allowed outside, but Level 3 are the only ones who are scheduled with times and such.

The ground level is where they’ll be viewing what is going on with the 40. And the Entity is much more involved. FUNINTHEEYEOFMADNESS came up with the idea that to the people in Level 1 it would talk to the occupants like an empathic therapist. Level 2 is a no nonsense tough love overseer with the same empathy. And Level 3 is where the Entity will be the jail guard/jester/tormenter, pointing out their flaws, the pyrrhic victories and just rubbing it in. And, for the more arrogant of the prisoners, it will showcase their reality warping abilities to prove a point.

To quote FUNINTHEEYEOFMADNESS, "I would also imagine that for level's 2 and three the entity would make the prisoners do prison chores, but only to prove a point and make them build character. As any real chore can be solved by their reality warping effects."

The prison island would even be surrounded by an Eldritch Abomination to replace the ocean and act as a deterrent to kept them from trying to escape, (not that they could).

Something like this:

The Eldritch surrounding the island is obviously alive, but it reacts differently to the people coming outside. For Level 1, it will act similar to a puppy and all round just be playful and helpful to them. With Level 2 it will act indifferent, not choosing to intervene but will do so if necessary. But if someone from Level 3 steps outside without permission, it will go into berserk mode.

Ending:

Since this non-canon, it's kind of opened ended, but this what FUNINTHEEYEOFMADNESS and I came up with:

They will all have their memories erased OR only Level 3 will have their memories erased, (to which they will get back when they 💀) while Level 1 and those who redeemed themselves from Level 2 will keep their memories.

As to their connection to the 40, there are two scenarios:

1. Those who kept their memories while contact them when they get the chance and apologizes/helps the MCS (WE) cast with their adventures.

2. Somehow, someway, the 40 finds out what the Cloaked Figure is doing, those who have the unredeemable villains would see this a fitting punishment while those who have antagonists who are still redeemable or who are just antagonists by convention would ask if the Entity is insane. (And might even ask Entity to allow those of Level 1 to come back with them to the mansion and Level 2 once they’ve redeemed themselves.)

Reaction/Interaction Excerpts:

And of course, how can a can this be a reaction fic with some reactions?

To their stories/the 40:

To quote FUNINTHEEYEOFMADNESS again, "I would imagine they would either be downtrodden, guilty or seething in jealously. Another good point, since the 40 story is about hurt and comfort, the characters learning from each other and making themselves feel better, the villainous 40 would be judged by their peers and criticized. This can range from insults, being appalled by each other's actions or just rubbing it in each other in a sense of hypocritical moral superiority."

To each other:

Level 3 would have those arguing who had the better plan, motive, who had the harder protagonist to deal with etc. Basically an ego measuring contest. And the other levels would want to stay far away from them.

Level 2 would have them defending their case on why they did such actions, even though most of them won’t buy it, and some would actually engage in nice conversations. Level 3 would just call them pathetic while Level 1 would attempt to be friendly, as long as Level 2 cooperates.

Level 1 are just confused about why they are there and want to go home. Reactions to each other may vary, but they would be nice and comfort each other while allowing themselves to relax slightly since they are living much more luxuriously then they had been before. Level 3 and the stubborn half of Level 2 would be glaring at them while the redeemable half of Level 2 would be glad that they are in good living conditions.

How they would interact:

Level 3:

Ozai, Satan, Ragyō Kiryūin, Azami Nakiri, Toichiro Suzuki, and Akito Sohma would all be complaining to each other of how their bloodline/family members are such failures and how they would want to exact their revenge for going against them. They still don't get along, but they bond over that.

Light Yagami would keep trying to argue that he is not a villain, that he is a god, and all that nonsense, and it's usually Sukuna OR Geto, who yells at him to shut up and threatens to strangle him, shock collars be damn.

Yugi Tsukasa and Junko, somehow, bond over how much joy it bring them to see others in despair.

ADAM and Hisoka (if you chose him) would share in how they are looking for the most skilled/strongest, but when ADAM learn that Hisoka is a... ADAM would request a restraining order against him.

Amon OR Unalaq OR Zaheer OR Kuvira and Zeke Yeager would indulge in their own ideas of equality and freedom along with their radical methods of how to achieve such goals, (Light wouldn't be in this since he sees them as criminals and not himself, talk about hypocrite.)

With every interaction and banter Undertaker would just be shaking and crying with laughter as he finds all of this to be hilarious.

Level 2:

Benibara, Seijūrō Akashi (if you chose him), Kusuke Saiki, Kirari Momobami, and Oko Shinomiya would all be fighting for the leadership role in the group, and some of them are willing to draw blood to get it. (But it's Isabella, again if you chose her, who assumes the leadership role.)

Kusuke would actually try to study Cancer Cell while Garou would also be demanding to fight him to determine who is the strongest. This resulted in the two being threaten by Cancer Cell on a weekly, to daily, basis to stop.

The Whyman would just watch the humans being stupid.

Level 1:

All three of them get along, even though both Oikawa and JJ has egos the size of a house, (though these two would share in their woes of how they are the best and yet always fall short to someone else), and the three would comfort each other if need be. And JJ, who is the oldest in the group, would unconsciously take up the parental role.

Conclusion:

It the same premise as MCS (WE) except that this centered around the antagonists of the stories and most of them are either getting treated like the scumbags they are or are getting redeemed.

I'm not sure if FUNINTHEEYEOFMADNESS or if anyone else is going to actually write this, but if anyone does, or if they just what to keep bouncing around ideas, I'll happily lend a hand and or ear!

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sanrielle · 1 year

Text

Let's talk about Azula and redemption arcs...

There's a lot of discussion in the fandom regarding this topic—much of it argumentative and even toxic at times.

But what I don't see talked about is how—whether Azula is redeemed or remains a villain—both options are valid storytelling choices that are entirely dependent on the circumstances the storytellers inflict on her.

I'm referring mainly to fanfiction here, but let's talk for a moment about the upcoming Azula comic, which has promised 'a chance at redemption' for her. That's no guarantee, but it's a tantalizing hint that the creators wish this fate for her.

If I'm being honest, I don't have a whole lot of faith in it, and not because I'm too firmly in one camp or the other. It's because the bar is SO high already. Zuko's redemption arc is widely considered The Best Ever, and that's largely because of how much time and attention it was given, spanning three seasons and nearly a year in-universe. He had triumphs and failures, baby steps forward and backslides. He had a mentor that truly cared, and he had empathetic enemies. But most importantly, he was given an actual desire to become a better person and fix his mistakes.

I really don't believe that kind of depth is possible in a single comic. While I've enjoyed most of the comics for what they are, they generally lack the length to really dig deep. If Azula's possible comic redemption is anything like Kuvira's—which was rushed, painfully shallow, and didn't give nearly enough attention to the horrors and betrayal she inflicted on those that cared about her—I think it will disappoint most fans.

[But Ruins of the Empire is a topic for another day.]

Really, this isn't about whether or not Azula gets a redemption arc in canon. It's not even about whether or not she deserves one. It's about the fact that there are two opposing sides who can't seem to shake hands and say, 'Your take is valid and I respect it.'

The fact is that she is a deliciously complex character with traits that allow for incredible stories on either path.

She's a bloodthirsty, remorseless killer who is ALMOST entirely lacking in empathy. (I say 'almost' because there are a few hints that there's a spark of that in there somewhere, though it's overruled by other things). She also displays narcissistic tendencies and is skilled at manipulating the people around her to her own benefit.

But...it's pretty clear that she was groomed by her father to be the way she is, including her belief that her mother didn't love her. She also seems quite capable of forming bonds with people, and displays agitation when she is abandoned by them.

So. All of this tells me that what Azula needs is a reason to change—some kind of catalyst that will break her down to the point at which she surrenders and has a real, honest desire to atone for her many, many atrocities. It would be cool to see a complex, well-thought-out story that does this.

On the other hand, Azula is an awesome villain. We (sort of) know why she is the way she is and we know that she delights in causing others pain. Realistically, many 'bad' people never mend their ways. They go their whole lives seeing themselves as the victim, refusing to take accountability for their actions, and continuing down a path of self-destruction. It's horribly tragic and it's life, and I think writers have every right to tell that story with her.

This diatribe was longer than expected. TLDR: Azula could have a cool redemption. Or not. Fanfic writers, do what you want and don't let the naysayers bring you down.

#atla #avatar the last airbender #azula #I have opinions

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korrasamibottles · 1 month

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Hii, Character ask game 🕺🕺 for Kya ii and/or Kuvira

9. Could you be roommates with this character?

12. What's a headcanon you have for this character?

25. What was your first impression of this character? How about now?

Thank you!!! Gonna do both of them hashtag feminism....

9. Could you be roommates with this character?

Kya II: We'd get along great, but we'd never remember to pay rent on time and we DEFINITELY wouldn't get our security deposit back after dropping acid one weekend and painting massive floor-to-ceiling murals on every wall of the apartment.

Kuvira: We'd feed off each other's energy in the worst ways and bring out each other's nastiest qualities, I know it. The place would be spotless and the bills would be paid on time, but as soon as our eyes open each morning we'd start devising new ways to piss each other off. I think she'd be more overtly mean about it, and I'd get super passive-aggressive (I'm not proud of this, but umm. Yeah. I know myself.)

12. What's a headcanon you have for this character?

Kya II: She planted a free rooftop community garden above the health clinic she started in Republic City. I feel like in her travels she picked up all sorts of knowledge about different plants and how they grow. Also I have literally no basis for this, but maybe she's a vegetarian because it helps her feel closer to her dad.

Kuvira: She keeps her closet organized by color, and within each color section are smaller sub-sections for different shades and sleeve lengths.

25. What was your first impression of this character? How about now?

Kya II: I had a lot more shame the first time I watched tlok (like. 9 years ago.), so I basically just thought she seemed like a great aunt, and also really cool and fun to be around. Now she's all those things AND I can freely admit she's hot as fuck.

Kuvira: I thought she was a really interesting villain with great eyebrows and now....she's an interesting hot villain who got a sloppy & unearned redemption arc. In my opinion. I loved the weird agro Korvirasami drama and Beifong family tension in the comics, but would've prefered it if the writers took her past actions a little more seriously. I liked her better as a villain!

#sorry i took forever to answer i picked the worst possible day to reblog an ask game in terms of My Job lmao #asks #lilrobinbird

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soyouareandrewdobson · 1 month

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Did Dobson not take any writing classes or anything and that's why his writing is so terrible? He loved talking about how much he knows about animation, and even made comics about that, but he doesn't seem to know anything about good writing; not how to make and time jokes, not how to develop characters, now how to plan a decent story. Just things he personally finds funny that no one else does (I think there was even an AZP where he said it was based on "an inside joke"...with himself, and then proceeded NOT to explain what the "joke" is) and being angry over something but not thinking about how to make an actual argument. Did he consider himself "too good" for writing?

Good question and I would not be surprised if Dobson took no writing classes at all. To be fair, I am not really a fan of the concept of writing classes much myself (I think they help teach you certain technical concepts, but the true meat of writing a good story is related to the emotional investment and a balance of your own personal biases and reader's expectations) but they can help in some manners to teach you basics.

That said, I think the bigger issue has always been, that Dobson had no basic understanding of a good story, period. This is a guy who looked at the 2017 Mighty Morphin Power Rangers reboot movie and thought it was good, but could never really "explain" why he was emotionally invested enough in it to label it that way. A guy who hated Legend of Korra to the core, but praised it once Korra turned into a carpet muncher, while ignoring any of the plotbeats such as Kuvira as a villain, the character development of certain characters etc. because that was "uninteresting" and distracting to him.

and the thing is, while I can point out what the issue tends to be with Dobson's writing in the actual works themselves -lack of character depth, of focussing the pacing on actual current events in the story, overabundance of puns, constantly trying to emulate more popular things in your work instead of trying to have an original touch to it, lazily expecting immediate success and popularity just for doing something etc.- I can not really explain or understand myself, why Dobson was embracing this surface level, shallow approach of "writing" and creating your own work/world. Simply because there is too little on the internet really painting to me a clear picture of WHY he would always prefer such simple minded entertainment over some even slightly more "sophisticated" stuff.

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thatoneguy56fanfic · 10 months

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One of the big reasons why I love Kuvira as a character is her character development. Her journey reminds me of the saying “The road to hell is paved with good intentions.”

I personally believe that Kuvira was never a fully evil person. The key to a making a good villain is the fact that they don’t see themselves as a villain. They truly believe that everything they’re doing is good and necessary. Which is what Kuvira believed by the end of B4, and in Ruins of the Empire. She truly believed that what she was doing was the best thing for her nation. A nation that she felt was being neglected.

For example in B3 E3 The Earth Queen, we get to see just how truly demanding Queen Hou-Ting was. And we got a glimpse at the kind of life most Earth Kingdom citizens were subjected to under her rule. Not only do a large majority of them live in extreme poverty, but they’re still taxed by the crown anyway. During a mission to collect some of that tax money, Korra even comments that she feels like they’re helping the wrong side.

So then fast forward to the end of B3. The Earth Queen is dead, the nation is in turmoil, and the Avatar is unable to help restore balance. After Suyin refuses to help, Kuvira steps up. She gathers what allies she can get from Zaofu, before leaving. President Raiko gives her some temporary powers as well. (I always headcanon that he decided to help due to feeling guilty about doing nothing during the Water Tribe Civil War.)

I can only imagine how stressful that original campaign must’ve been. Kuvira was a young commander. (She doesn’t have a canon age that I know of, but I personally write her as being 24-26 at this time.) And up until then, she was used to being the captain of a city guard, not the commander of a full scale army. The Earth Kingdom is truly massive, and the idea of pacifying it must’ve been a daunting one. Spirits, even just the plan to retake Ba Sing Se would’ve been an immense challenge by itself.

Yet Kuvira is a master metalbender and a talented tactician. It probably didn’t take long for her to start piling up victories. Now we know that she had to deal with raiders, but I also headcanon that there were Red Lotus cells still active at that time too. They weren’t as well organized or as effective as when they were under Zaheer’s influence, but they still managed to cause chaos everywhere they went. Not to mention that the Dai Li were more than likely still around as well.

Kuvira’s fall from grace was a slow one, in my opinion. Victory after victory, she slowly began to believe that she really was becoming a savior for her nation. She did do a lot of good, and brought modern technology to a nation that desperately needed it. So when the first idea of the Earth Empire began to emerge within her forces, she accepted the title of leader purely because she knew that they’d need one. She wouldn’t truly see herself as the Great Uniter until later. And by then her slide into villainy was already complete.

Now, obviously this is all just my personal opinion and a lot of it is influenced by my own headcanons. Mostly because we don’t have a canon version of Kuvira’s campaign, and I doubt that we’ll get one either because Bryke neglects his most interesting characters. Also I know that the Earth Empire was meant to be a WWII analogy, which I personally really don’t care for. But that’s a topic for another time.

#ao3 writer #fanfiction #legend of korra #kuvira #random thoughts with jay #I kinda rambled a bit im sorry lol

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