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thelawyerthatwaspromised · 5 years

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But What Does Cersei Want? [some spoiler content]

I have some tinfoil-y finale season speculation based on SOME unconfirmed spoilers but I’ll tag spoilers anyway...but the gist of this is:

What does Cersei want and why might that matter immensely?

Ok here’s the summary before I get to every detail...because I doubt every detail comes to fruition exactly anyway. The overall idea is more important.

I think Cersei will cooperate with Tyrion in a kidnapping plot against Sansa to 1) secure the North through marriage between Sansa and Tyrion; and 2) secure Cersei’s claim to the Throne through a forced marriage between herself and Jon.

Admittedly that’s kinda wild. Here’s a rundown on why I think this could really actually happen. Some of this is based on spoiler content, MUCH on the foreshadowing in the series:

1) Cersei has a loose grip on power;

2) Cersei wants to fulfill Tywin’s mission of a Lannister dynasty;

3) Tyrion wants power and a stable position of power;

4) The Sansa/Tyrion marriage was referenced in a strange way;

5) Tyrion is on the outs with Daenerys so his influence is waning;

6) RLJ super duper matters;

7) There’s a [LEAK ALERT] rumor that Bronn has been sent to kill Tyrion;

8) There have been rumors for more than a year of a Sansa kidnapping;

9) There’s a strong rumor of Tyrion on trial in one of the last episodes;

10) There’s the Tyrion “love triangle” from the OG outline;

11) It explicitly places Sansa as the YMBQ

Ok I have to stop. There are so many reasons. Here’s what I think happens (Any part of this based on a spoiler is marked [SPOILER] because it’s just not yet determined to be true or not but it fits with the theory so well):

Dany’s Fragmented Alliance

Just how badly things go for Dany in the North is yet to be determined however the early outlook is, at best, cloudy with a chance of meatballs. We already have seen her relationship with Tyrion deteriorate to the point where one of the most common predictions is that Tyrion will almost certainly betray Dany in some way.

This isn’t unique to the Dany/Tyrion dynamic, though. Multiple parties are shown to be combative with Dany early in the season according to [SPOILERS]. Assuming that there’s fragmented relations between Tyrion and Dany, it’s highly plausible that Tyrion will see his position of authority severely hampered by the darneded Northern Fool Jon Snow.

Tyrion maybe looking for greener pastures.

Meanwhile Back at Cersei Headquarters

[SPOILERS] It’s rumored that Bronn is sent by Cersei to kill both Tyrion and Jaime. Pretty much makes sense. Plausible enough that I have no real reason to doubt that it very much could be true. In fact it would be kind of weird if Cersei WEREN’T trying to do this.

Assume, also, that Cersei is very interested in a face to face meeting with Sansa Stark...whom she still believes had a part in killing Joffrey. There’s a revenge factor for Cersei when it comes to Sansa that just really isn’t there for for anyone other than Tyrion and MAYBE Jaime.

Cersei may want Tyrion dead and Sansa brought back to her or dead as well.

The “Twist”

Assuming Bronn is sent to kill Tyrion and successfully infiltrates wherever Tyrion happens to be located...what do you think Tyrion would do?

Bargain. Plead. Negotiate.

It’s what he does. It’s what he always does. Think back to how Bronn came into his service in the first place. Think back to how Tyrion acquired the Hill Tribesmen when they wanted to kill Tyrion. He always has a plan (based on his name) to get himself out of trouble.

Even if his show counterpart is more angelic than his book version, this is something that’s consistent with the portrayal of Tyrion. He doesn’t use a sword, he uses his mind.

So how can Tyrion talk Bronn out of killing him when refusal could have big consequences for Bronn? By dangling something that would improve Bronn’s station AND something that Cersei would very likely be interested: control of the North. Through Sansa. His “wife”.

Tyrion reasons with Bronn. “Don’t kill me. Because I can make your situation much better. How would you like to be the man to offer Cersei something she covets: the North.”

The Logistics

Tyrion will have been up there at least long enough to see Sansa’s importance. She’s always been referred to as the “key to the North”, after all. But now he gets to see her really proving it. The Lords of the North showed quite a bit of loyalty to Sansa in S7 so the audience already has knowledge of their faith in the Lady of Winterfell. Tyrion sees this and might recall to himself the fact that his marriage to Sansa wasn’t ever quite “resolved”. In fact, her marital status has been quite the subject of conversation from multiple parties the last few seasons. So this fits her storyline pretty logically.

So Tyrion, facing the prospects of death, offers Bronn a plan to take Sansa and himself back to Cersei. Tyrion gets to stay alive and keep his head. Bronn gets to deliver two traitors “to Cersei’s door” (ala the Dragonpit entry conversation).

Tyrion gets a twisted revenge on Catelyn Stark for his kidnapping/arrest in Season 1 at the Inn at the Crossroads. Tyrion has something to offer Cersei: spare my life, renew my marriage with Sansa, you will gain the North.

Bam.

Is that it? No...there’s more.

R+L=J

So who here thinks RLJ is kept secret from the world for S8? Those few of you in the back can see yourselves out. The new is going to spread. And I think Tyrion will know it.

So imagine. You’re Tyrion. You have this great proposal for Cersei that would keep you alive because it would benefit Cersei (which is the only reason Cersei would do anything). You’re in a good situation now. You also have another bit of info that would probably interest the current Queen of Westeros: the beloved half-brother-turned-cousin of Sansa Stark is ACTUALLY the heir to Rhaegar Targaryen...none other than Jon Snow.

Now flip to Cersei’s perspective. Cersei wants power and longevity. She wants to have a Tywin-like impact. She has Tyrion and Sansa to secure the North. What other leverage could she gain? Control of the line of succession for herself. She could get Jon Snow.

If we assume Jon very much cares for Sansa...we have a scenario where Cersei can threaten something very dear to Jon’s heart unless he cooperates. Jon becomes a target to Dany (because his claim exceeds hers) and an object of desire for Cersei (because Cersei’s claim is strengthened by ‘acquiring’ Jon’s AND she could be in possession of Sansa - a very good reason for Jon to comply).

So Cersei tosses this proposal at Jon:

- Lay down your arms - Accept Tyrion’s marriage to Sansa - Accept me as your Queen and marry me;

- or-

- I will kill Sansa.

Now, THAT is leverage. It would guarantee a mini-Lannister dynasty. It would cause the North, the Vale, and very likely the Riverlands to yield.

Why wouldn’t they just toss Sansa aside and allow maybe Arya or Bran to takeover once again? BECAUSE THE STARKS ARE A PACK.

None of Jon, Arya, or Bran would ever allow for Sansa to be disregarded. It goes against the whole narrative of the family. It goes against Robb’s response to Ned’s imprisonment and execution. It goes against Jon and Sansa’s mission to reclaim Winterfell and their unsuccessful effort to save Rickon.

The Lone Wolf Dies But the Pack Survives.

Except it’s used against them here...for a time.

What Does This Look Like in the End?

Full disclosure, I don’t have it worked out exactly how they overcome this very tough situation. Maybe I’ll add a part two before the season starts. But I think this has a very strong possibility of happening.

Here’s what I think would eventually happen:

1) Jon and his allies foil the plan;

2) Jon and Sansa rule Westeros;

3) Tyrion is put on trial for his role

4) KL ends up getting blown up by Dany so they don’t even rule from KL in the end

But Why Does This Work Symbolically?

There are SO many plot threads this ties together:

1) Tywin held a grudge for Aerys’ refusal to accept his idea for a Cersei/Rhaegar betrothal;

2) Tyrion is a villain in the OG outline and involved in a deadly feud with Jon over his Stark sister-turned-not sister;

3) Sansa would actually BE the YMBQ if a temporary betrothal to Cersei were accepted by Jon only to be foiled later and result in a Jon/Sansa marriage;

4) Tyrion offered Bronn lands and titles in the North before his trial by combat but Bronn turned it down because Tyrion didn’t know where Sansa was;

5) Jon riding to KL to stop Sansa from being married to a Lannister would show him saving her from a marriage in a way that Robb was unable to do for Sansa;

6) Jon going with a plan would show him learning from the mistakes of his REAL father and brother;

7) It fits Tyrion wanting the North and having a reasonable-ish reason for staking his claim to the North (”Cersei would have killed us both otherwise!”) but finally paying for all he’s done........like murdering Shae in cold blood.

8) It illustrates the importance of Sansa as the Key to the North.

9) Sansa in the books always longed for her hero to ride to save her from the tower. Here she’s grown and become wiser and yet women in Westeros really STILL are vulnerable...and Sansa would get to learn first hand that someone does exist who will put her first and do whatever it takes to keep her safe.

I could go into the million reasons why this works with regard to the dynamics between Jon and Daenerys but I feel like I need to get the basis of this theory out first and then maybe I can expand upon it.

Honestly, I got so excited about the possibilities of this theory that my first post hear is probably sloppy and a little disjointed, and in dire need of refinement but I had to get it out there.

Don’t be surprised if I come out with additions in the near future.

#jonsa #jon x sansa #political jon theory #political!jon #anti targaryen restoration #tltwp meta #spoilers #s8 spoilers

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ragnarssons · 5 years

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Thoughts on the way they'll end t100? It's not like I trust him but he's got 2 huge examples (thanks to D&D and Rob Thomas) of what fans DO NOT want. Fans don't want despair or plot twits for shock value that ignore the narrative. Plot twists are supposed to be shocking but believable, not a way to feel superior. Always thought C or BC'd die saving their ppl but now it's like what people? sakjdha so idk. It'd be nice if he let the heroes overcome their trauma. It'd give meaning to the story....

I have never, not once, thought the story would end with Clarke or Bellarke dying. Let’s go back to what the show means, shall we? It’s about the surviving of the human race, through a “future generation”, on which lies every desperate hope possible: one, they’re delinquants/criminals, “lost cause” in the eyes of their governement. Two, they’re sent to die (hence, why they survive). Three, they’re sent on a “dead” planet, by a dying civilization. What we discover in the spam of very few episodes after this beginning is that: our “delinquants” aren’t so bad. They all have a history and a capacity to do better, and they even have excuses and/or explanations for what they did. Clarke ended up in a cell to die just because her father wanted to save the Ark. Bellamy ended up “shooting the chancellor” (*gasp* a killer!) to save his sister and because he was manipulated by someone else. And of all the mass of delinquants we’ve had, Monty, Jasper, Harper, Octavia, Finn, Murphy, all these people have shown an ability to love, to be compassionate, to think about what they were doing, to be brave and be afraid, to make mistakes and attone for said mistakes, etc. I have NEVER felt as if one of the plot twists of The 100 came out of nowhere. I have seen Finn’s death, and Lxa’s death come from miles away. And even tho there are storylines that I didn’t like (them going back on the ring at the end of s4 for example), the hints were there. It “made sense” in an idea of survival, even tho one could argue that it was far fetched and that a bunch of teenagers managing to pull that out is “CW material”. Yeah, it kinda is, but it never shocked me as in “OMG I WOULDA NEVER SEEN IT COMING FROM THIS TV SHOW”. And I will have to say that Clarke being left behind was also heavily “teased”/foreshadowed during this season. There was a reason as to why she became a nightblood, ya kno. Clarke was always the self-sacrificing character who always put others’ lives above her own. It was classic Clarke, like easily. But I mean, how many times Clarke has proven that? Has shown how much she’s willing to give for the others? Is that really the message the show wants to send with Clarke Griffin? “Keep sacrificing, it ends at one point”? No. Clarke’s story is all about redemption and hope and humanity. Humanity doesn’t end with death- especially not on this show as we see the idea of PROSPERITY being a big thing, especially through Becca. Clarke is basically our Becca. She has been hated for some of her decisions and actions and yes, somehow, she is responsible for a great deal of pain for a lot of people (MW especially, for example). But she’s a savior too. She’s someone who is always willing to put herself on the line, to inject herself with radioactive blood and to take chips and Flames in order to save humanity. She’s also someone who hasn’t allowed herself to be happy for a very long time. Thing is, while Becca had to sacrifice a lot - even herself at the end - for her cause, Clarke has to learn and to teach us better lessons. Clarke has to resurface. Clarke pointing a gun at her face in tonight’s episode is NOT the end of her story. It’s the crucible of her life, the pain, the guilt, the struggle. And as far as what Jroth said, the idea is not to condemn humanity through this show. For the characters, it seems that it’s been a long desperate walk among the worst kind of humans possible. But at the same time, they met people they learnt to love, people with whom they’ve mend their differences. Niylah, Lxa, Indra, E/cho, Emori, Maya, Gabriel. Even Clarke and Jospehine have learn to kinda live and work together at the end of this particular journey. What we saw from Clarke, contrary to Josephine, was her ability to SYMPATHIZE with Josephine and her struggles and her sadness (ie, the scene with Gabriel having a cancer and all, Clarke DOES feel for Josephine and Gabriel in this situation). To me, there are several quotes scattered through the entire show that do imply a happy ending. A HOPEFUL ending. “See? There’s hope for us yet” that’s one thing. “Do you still have hope?” “Are we still breathing?” as long as you’re alive, you can turn the page. I know we keep referring to that regarding Bellarke, but it’s much bigger than Bellarke. It’s an idea for the entire show. And you know what? Turning the page is ALSO another quote that has come back through the show. Do better. Be better. And you can’t do that if you’re dead. You can’t even do that, even if you sacrifice yourself for the noblest cause possible. What I’d love as an end for the show, is if Clarke was willing to sacrifice herself, minutes, seconds away from doing it, and that people would NOT give up on her. That her friends would come and save her and help her, and be a unit working to keep living- all of them. No sacrifice, no loss accepted, always the hope to do better. It’s like I said, like Arrow, like Supernatural- after so much struggle, you can’t, you CANNOT end these kind of storylines with the message being “and then you die lol”. I said it, if Oliver Queen dies by the end of Arrow, the show would have been worth NOTHING because there is the “purpose” of your show, and there’s the SOUL of your show. And the soul of Arrow is Oliver Queen, a damaged, depressed, PTSD-ridden character who deserves to see that he has a better chance in life. Who deserves to see that after everything he’s been through, he can TURN THE PAGE and let his weapons down and have a chance at being a better person, living a better life. Now adressing VM and GoT. So coming from Rob Thomas we have confirmation that VM is NOT over. At least, it’s not what he intends, we’ll see if the audience follows. VM losing Logan is not the end of her journey, and even tho yes, it’s shitty what he did, it’s not the “final message” he wants to send with this character (to me… too many “reboots” are too many reboots. He shoulda left the show where it ended with the movie, end of story). We don’t know what will be VM’s final “journey” or the key ending of the character. On the other hand… well GoT. Objectively. GoT has a VERY good ending. “Good” as in very cheesy, very fairytale-like, very lovey dovey boo-boo. Did you really imagine that many characters surviving? That many characters “reaching their dream jobs” like Podrick and Brienne, or Tyrion, the Starks or Samwell, etc? I think that’s one element that has disappointed me with GoT too. That was one show where hope was a tiny tiny thread of light and where I was ready to get WRECKED and lose a lot of the characters I loved, and see from the ashes of it, the survivors rebuild everything. (I had watched videos speculating that EVERYONE would die!) What we got? That’s a freaking miracle, I mean, I hate a lot of things, but hello ma boi Podrick is alive! Davos is alive! No more Starks died! Heck, even Winterfell was still standing after everything! It was even TOO good/too cheesy considering what we got before and that was one of my problems. To be honest, I could not tell what was the message D&D intended with this ending, because I really CANNOT read what they did with it. From ep 8x03 to ep 8x04 it seems like two different shows, where characters have different goals all the sudden, and they have different mindsets, and they just don’t communicate anymore. I swear, words can’t describe how much I hate it. Thing is, GoT is an anomaly. And seeing the way the audience reacted to it, it’s proof of that. GoT’s ending was half-assed, and that’s no secret. D&D were tired of it, end of story. It was obvious that they needed more, if not WAY MORE than 8 seasons to build all of this, they refused it and just did THAT instead. I’m pretty sure D&D had nothing but GRRM’s final “goals” for the characters (Dany dead, Jon NoTW, Sansa Queen etc) and just rushed to these in a hot second without really weighing these “destinies”. For example, I think in the books if Bran becomes King, it will be of a VERY different system than the one Westeros has right now. And I don’t mean “oh the chair is destroyed and now three idiots elect the King instead of it being given by blood”, I mean, no council, nothing of this old, twisted and rotten system that has proven to be wrong from the beginning of the story. Thing is, seeing GoT’s, GRRM’s story is pretty clear and straight-forward and no death and no “plot twist” is shocking. You can see it all coming from miles away (the Red Wedding, Ned’s death, Robert’s death, etc) because it’s so well crafted. And it was so well done during these years of the show as well. But D&D never had the talent GRRM has, and it showed for the rest of the show. I mean, hello, it’s so well done in the books that ever since 1996 people have been speculating that L+R = J. Imagine that if D&D had to do it themselves? I’m just laughing imagining the lack of build-up and then them blurting it out at some point just to “shock the audience”. I don’t think Jroth, despite his flaws, would EVER do that. He won’t turn Clarke into a villain last minute. He won’t have Bellamy kill Clarke after everything they’ve been through. And I don’t think either that was what GoT was supposed to be, because at the end, the story is still GRRM’s, and I don’t think AT ALL that this is what he has in mind (to make it simple: it couldn’t even work considering ALL the storylines there are in the books that aren’t on the show). Going back to The 100, I think the show has always been very consistent, and I think that despite there being things I don’t like (for example, bleggo), the characters aren’t heavily changed to justify these kinds of storyline (Bellamy is not a completely different character, he’s still Bellamy at his core, the problem is that the writers never cared to SHOW us the process of him accepting E/cho and building a relationship with her- which is… at least more acceptable than him becoming a totally different character to justify it). I don’t think Jroth’s goal has ever been to “subvert expectations”, he’s NEVER expressed himself like that, except maybe when he focused too much on his AI plot twist instead of seeing the consequences of his queerbaiting and how the fans would react to Lxa dying (even tho I will ALWAYS say it, her death was HEAVILY FORESHADOWED, but it’s easy for fans to ignore what they want to ignore). And I think he’s learnt his lesson, from that moment. And I do believe him when he says he’s had the blue prints of the show in his mind from the start and that he’s going to committ to it because it’s something he cares about that much. And again, I don’t think the message of this whole story could be “don’t worry at the end you’ll die and that’s it”. It’s not the kind of message this network would send anyway (CW). And I don’t think that’s what Jroth intended and it was kinda implied in this interview he did with Kshum. He does say “WELL KIM WANTED THIS-” as if it was HER desire and not his. His intention is not to destroy everything and kill everyone just to be edgy. He has a desire to express something with this show. Destruction is not a way of expressing anything. So even if he expresses it as “we wanted another Apocalypse at the end of s5″ he still intended SOMETHING (characters) to survive from it. When I worry about these kinds of things, I always think about what JKR said. Dying in a war is probably the easiest thing, surviving it and rebuilding from it and learning from it, is the hardest thing to do. That’s why, to me, as bittersweet of an ending THG’s ending is, it’s THE BEST ending to a modern dystopian series to date. It is as cruel as it is important. It is a redemption for Katniss and for Panem just as much. It is embracing the future and acknowledging the scars of the past too. And I think The 100 is about that too. I 100% think that the moral of this story - The 100 - is hope against all odds. Humanity over inhumanity. Living over dying. It’s always about bringing back life and hope in the most desperate and dark situations. I think the moral of the show can be summed up in the Culling scene from 1x05. You think humanity will fail, but at the end of the day, it’ll prevail, it’ll prove better. No matter what we think after 6 seasons, the heart of the show is still Clarke Griffin, a girl living by the model of her father who died, thinking humanity would do better. Hoping against all odds is kind of a burden, it’s a struggle, but it has to pay off for the story to have meaning. I know Jroth already called this show a tragedy, but I think he meant as this show having “dark” characters, dealing with internal struggles and very humanly basic questions. What is bad, what is good. Who is the good guy, HOW are we the good guys, HOW do we do better, etc. Again it can be confirmed with how his vision with Kshum’s vision of a tragedy that is “everyone dies and the ending sucks”. The story can’t have meaning if you don’t answer these questions by the end of your story. I think this story has more of an Odysseus vibes. The characters are seeking home and are struggling through false hopes and they’re losing their ways. But at the end, Ulysse found his way back home and got his “happy ending”, no matter how dark it got along the way, or how many times he (almost) lost hope.

#answered #anonymous

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ladykakata · 6 years

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I go off on GOT

[NOTE: I keep trying to add the Jon-Sansa hug GIFS but Tumblr REFUSES to let me save or post with them. It’s fucking annoying]

*Rubs face*

Auntie LK is annoyed and she is going to take it out on y’all. I’m gunna go ahead and go off on Sansa hate, Jonsa, Dark Sansa and all that shit so hang onto your assholes.

SO. The new promos. There’s been the idea for a long time, since S6 really, of the idea of Sansa plain murdering Jon or Jonsa becoming canon since, well, Jon and Sansa are now maternal cousins rather than agnate siblings (as in, siblings with the same father but different mother).

S6 had Sansa and Jon reunite for the first time since S1. A lot of heavy shit has happened, some of it they share (like losing their father and brother Robb, Winterfell getting a bad squid infection via Theon being a little bitch) but also stuff they didn’t share (an absolute battering and rape for Sansa, literally being stabbed to literal death for Jon). For Jon, who just came back from the motherfuckin’ dead 10 minutes ago and decided he had enough of this shit he’s out, this is pure shock.

For Sansa? This is pure RELIEF. Remember, Jon is the FIRST family member she has seen since the death of Ned. She hasn’t seen her mother (who is dead GOOD LAWL god I hate her), her eldest brother, her brat little sister, or her two littlest brothers since either leaving Winterfell or since Ned’s beheading. Not only that, he’s the Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch as far as she knows, so he’s in a position of power that is untouched by machinations of the South. Who is in power? Who cares. The Night’s Watch doesn’t deal with that shit and Cersei can’t follow her up here. And if Ramsey decides to give chase, it’s more than Jon to fight back.

Look at the hug. She almost cries, listen to the shuddery inhale of breath as she fights that back, she practically falls into him, and once they hug she looks for comfort and support. For Sansa, this is absolute relief. Her ordeal, for the moment, is over. She escaped Ramsey, the rape, the torture. She survived the snow, the river, the chase and being hunted. And now she is safe in the arms of her older brother.

For Jon, he is absolutely stunned to see her. For as much as they didn’t really get along, she’s still his sister, and he said goodbye to his family in Winterfell years ago. Only Benjen went to the Wall, and he disappeared, so Sansa is the first he’s seen in a long time. Hell, Jon almost ran to join Robb in his rebellion, and only just resisted and came back.

Family came for Jon after his resurrection.

After this comes a really important talk. Sansa and Jon’s relationship was never really touched on; Jon and Robb hugged and treated each other as peer-brothers (and it’s fucking CUTE I would CUT SOMEONE to see more bro Jon and Robb!!), Jon and Arya were cute-as-buttons older brother/pint-sized sister, and Jon cared so much about Bran that he bore Catlyn’s cunty comments in order to say goodbye. The only two not explored were Sansa and Rickon. It’s really important to note that Sansa took after Cat. And that meant absorbing her loathing of Jon, something that is talked about. Sansa gets to brass tacks about it:

Sansa : I spent a lot of time thinking about what an ass I was to you. I wish I could change everything. Jon: We were children. Sansa : I was awful, just admit it. Jon : ( chuckles ) You were occasionally awful. I'm sure I can't have been great fun. Always sulking in the corner while the rest of you played. Sansa : Can you forgive me? Jon : There's nothing to forgive. Sansa : Forgive me. Jon : All right. All right, I forgive you.

Sansa knows she was wrong, wants to make it right, and does not allow Jon to sweep it away. She is determined to make sure he knows she knows she was wrong. It can be interpreted that she wants to secure his forgiveness and is in fact ordering it out of him, but I don’t see it that way. She knows she fucked up, and she wants to make it right. The following conversation re-enforces the fact they’re family. Jon even says ‘ If I don't watch over you, Father's ghost will come back and murder me’ (I’d pay good money to see Ned come back and give Jon a bollocking actually). Sansa brings up Winterfell, enforces it’s THEIR home and it’s for their family. She wants the Boltons out, but Jon came back from the dead 10 minutes ago and has Had Enough Of This Shit And Is Very Tired. Sansa lets it go temporarily.

Throughout the ep, and into the next, the idea is enforced that Jon and Sansa are brother and sister, and that Jon is Ned's son. Sure, currently that's kinda funny considering he isn't by blood, but the sentiment is true; Jon is every inch Ned's boy, and Sansa clearly feels safe with him, she even says so to Brienne:

Sansa : Jon isn't Davos, the Red Woman or Stannis for that matter.Jon is Jon.He's my brother.He'll keep me safe. I trust him.

Here is a thing I think a lot of people are missing. Yes, Sansa trusts Jon. She says it herself. But why, as Brienne countered, did she not tell Jon about the Knights of the Vale? Why did she outright counter Jon publicly? Why not wait?

The thing is, Jon is Ned's son. AND NED STARK IS FUCKING SHIT AT KEEPING SECRETS. Ned Stark is honourable to a FAULT, it's what got him Mcfreakin' killed. Jon is the Starkiest Stark that ever Starked, and Sansa KNOWS that letting him in on critical plans is a bad fucking idea. She's already learned from Pety 'I would honestly tongue a cat's asshole for fun' Baelish that one never shows all one's cards. But sharing a card with someone as upright and see-through as Jon? Might as well cut your own throat and be done with it.

Why publicly confront him? I never believed for a second that Sansa was displeased at Jon's sudden elevation to King in the North. When it was announced, he was stunned, and to me it looked like he was looking to Sansa to see if a) it was real, and b) wtf Sansa what do I do.

He's been suddenly promoted before, but the Night's Watch was different, and perhaps he's having flashbacks as to how THAT went. Hell, everyone was pissed before Lyanna Mormont straightened her big girl knickers and said 'Listen up you lil shits Jon is good King Jon 303AC 4lyf'. This is all good for Sansa. She has Winterfell back, Ramsey Bolton is more than dead, Jon has the support of the Northern lords firmly when they told them to eat a dick not too long ago. Everything feels great. Plus, in the North, she doesn’t have to deal with backstabbing political shit.

And then she remembers Littlefinger is there.

Oh fuckbastards.

What to do? While it looks like Littlefinger is getting to her, it’s VERY important to note that, despite being King In Da Norf, Jon is still as humble as ever. Before that, when Winterfell was first reclaimed, Jon noted that Ned and Cat’s room was prepared for Sansa.

Jon : I’m having the lord’s chamber prepared for you. Sansa : Mother and Father’s room? You should take it. Jon : I’m not a Stark. Sansa : You are to me.

Damn right he is, Sansa. Jon mentions they need to trust each other more and kisses her forehead. I think this, after the conversation about Littlefinger, really planted it in Sansa’s mind she’s got to protect Jon from this bastard. Jon can fight the physical and commend men no problem, but psychological shit he has issues with. Hell, Sansa told him outright not to fall for Ramsey’s shit in BOTB and he did anyway. There’s a gulf in Sansa’s Southern-trained psychological way of things and Jon’s straightforward hit-it-until-it-stops Northern mind. Both have had their ways beaten into them, so they can’t unlearn, but also can’t see the other’s view.

Okay okay okay. where is Auntie LK going with this? From what I see, Sansa was publicly denouncing Jon’s plans BUT doing so to keep him safe. The plan to give the Last Hearth and Karhold to loyal Lords? That’s a Southern tactic AND good sense. HOWEVER ... in this instance, Jon was right. The important think to note that both holds HAVE a new Lord and Lady waiting for them. And they are children.

These babs!

If anyone knows about a child having to bear the supposed sins of their parents, it’s Jon. He felt the weight of Ned’s supposed infidelity, even if it was absolutely no fault of their own. These children are terrified, Alys visibly swallows and tries to breathe properly. Hell, it’s scary when Sansa was all for taking their homes and Jon mentioned executing people, they probably worried they were next. However, Jon simply asks for allegiance. And that was a wise call; the idea of redistributing at first got a high then got a mixed to low response, given the chatter in the room and Davos looking down.

Don't for a second think I'm shitting on Sansa. From her point of view, this absolutely makes sense; if people stab you in the back, GITFO bitch. But that Southern way of thinking just will not work as well in the more traditional North. In this instance, Jon was in the right, and it's understandable how he is frustrated with Sansa openly challenging him. I think Sansa was trying to shore up any potential future betrayal, and simply didn't make the right calculation. She looks at Littlefinger in this scene, who likes the argument.

In this instance, Jon is right. These are children, and he rules like a good King; with a firm but gentle hand. He makes these kids feel like important grown-ups, spares them, and gives them this sense of awe and majesty. If Daenerys rules with terror and awe with her dragons, and a kind heart for the underdog, Jon wants to rule with practical kindness. They thought they were going to lose their homes, or even their heads, given that Sansa mentioned taking away their Holds and Jon mentioned executing people. Instead, King Jon asked for their word, and they gave it.

Look at what happens after; Jon tells Sansa to stop openly undermining him, Sansa points out that she should give advice and compliments his leadership skills. She tries to get him to see she has advice worth listening to, and he is clearly frustrated and tries to walk away, but she will not let him. To the point of GRABBING him.

She will not let Jon walk away from this. He tries to walk, but she physically makes him stop, and emphasises what she is trying to get through to him:

Sansa : You have to be smarter than Father. You need to be smarter than Robb. I loved them, I miss them, but they made stupid mistakes, and they both lost their heads for it.

To me, this clearly says one thing; Jon, for the love of fucking Old Gods and New Improved Ones, I am trying to keep you safe. She can’t outright say ‘Littlefinger wants to park his thirsty asshole on the Iron Throne and wants me on his lap because I remind him of my mother and he is willing to slaughter you like a sheep to get it’, Jon can’t be trusted with that sort of info. She wants to publicly make it look like she’s plotting against Jon in Littlefinger’s eyes ... but at the same time, make sure that her public outbursts aren’t ACTUALLY damaging her relationship with him. He is too precious. She needs him, and his abilities, but also needs to string Littlefinger along to ensure he doesn’t do something without sharing it with her first. She was dead set against Jon going South. That’s where Cersei can get her mitts on him, that’s walking into the mouth of the dragon and hoping it doesn’t eat him. The only positive for this was suddenly getting Bran and Arya back; she outright hugs Bran, her little brother who was in a coma when she left Winterfell, and even Arya gets a hug despite the pair being the most antagonistic towards each other.

Now. Arya and Sansa had issues. They had issues before Littlefinger littlefingered all over the place. Arya, despite her Southern training, is pretty much a hardcore Northerner, and seeing Sansa’s betrayal letters would have set her off and Littlefinger was banking on that. But when you have a family that TALKS, that has a legit psychic on staff to divine the truth (and Arya literally heard Bran recite the truth), that plan falls up the asshole. Did Sansa truly plan to ever murder Arya, and vice-versa? Honestly, who hasn’t entertained thoughts of murdering their annoying sibling, especially if one thinks the other has fallen to the Dark Side. However, Sansa and in a way Arya’s arcs have been about family. Only family can be trusted. Family will be there when you need them. Family will keep their word and protect you. For Sansa, this is in Stark (heh) contrast to the Lannisters and Baratheons, whom she was so eager to join as true Lords and Ladies. The Lannisters are at each other’s throats when not fucking each other, and the Baratheons tore themselves apart with infighting and backstabbing (and vagina shadowmonsters). The Starks bicker, but they have each other.

If Sansa wanted Jon dead or out of the picture, she wouldn’t have gone to the trouble of making him a cloak that is very similar to Ned Starks’ own. The man she literally saw beheaded in front of her.

Sansa : I made it like the one Father used to wear. As near as I can remember.

Sansa near panics when Jon decides to ride for Dragonstone, she keeps glancing to her right, either in Littlefinger’s direction or directly at him. All the Lords don’t want Jon to go, even his most hardcore supporter Lady Mormont, and Sansa is dead against it. Even when Jon names her Wardeness of the North in his absence, she is still wearing a face of panic.

Me? In charge? Oh. Uh.

Does Sansa enjoy being in power? Who doesn’t. Do I anticipate trouble when Jon returns? If he returned himself, I think the transition would have been smooth. Jon will be impressed by how well Sansa is preparing the north, and she will pretty much still be Wardeness while he is King; think of Sansa as the Prime Minister that gets shit done while Jon is the figurehead and commands the armies and does power deals. The addition of Daenerys is a biiiiiiig complication, especially with Jon boatsexin’ her all the way.

Which brings us to the hug. While I do believe Sansa is relieved to see him back alive, the arrival of Dany is a complication and now she has someone she needs to suss out and see if this person is a threat to her or the newly reunited Starks.

Do I think a Starkbowl is coming? Hell to the fucking no. The ENTIRE POINT of Sansa’s arc is that FAMILY CAN BE TRUSTED, FAMILY IS THERE TO PROTECT YOU. The biggest point for her is that Daenerys is not family. She’s Jon’s girlfriend for the moment, sure, but not family. She’s Essosi-minded, she’s not a Northerner for fucking sure. At this point, the issue will be the outing of Jon’s heritage.

But what does that really mean? Sure, Ned isn’t his blood father. But Ned raised him, he was raised with all the Starks as a sibling. Cunty Cat made him feel lesser, but everyone still treated him like a brother. Even Sansa. Everyone is zero’ing in on the father aspect, but A STARK IS HIS MOTHER. HE STILL HAS STARK HERITAGE. As Lady Mormont rightfully pointed out, ‘He has Ned Stark’s blood in his veins’. And he does; Ned and Lyanna are full-blooded siblings, and share the same wolf blood.

I hoep to hope, and I think it will happen, that Sansa will silently recalculate what the news will mean when others react, but as far as she and most certainly Bran and Arya are concerned, Jon is still their big brother. The big brother that said goodbye before Winterfell despite the coma, the brother that came to take back Winterfell despite the Bolton’s vile threats, the brother that choke-slammed a snake for wanting to bang them because they reminded them of their mother, the brother that rode out to save his little Rickon despite the odds, the brother that gifted them Needle, the brother that was willing to overlook past nastiness.

Jon Snow, the King in the North, the blood of Ned, the White Wolf ... he is their brother, and always will be. The gold/silver of Targaryen yielded to the coal of Stark, and Jon is the fucking Starkiest Stark that ever Starked.

Sansa is not going to backstab her brother. Fuck outta here with that shit.

LK out.

#Sansa #Game of thrones #GOT #Jonsa #Jonaerys #Dark Sansa #Starkbowl

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myassbrokethefall · 6 years

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All right, I just watched This for the third time, and the first time where I could really pause and rewind and have my attention undivided, since the first time through my brain was just a mess of AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH THIS IS SO GOOD THIS IS SO GOOD and the second time it was so I could follow along with Gillian’s tweets. (I may have learned what a taint was that day, but I did not get much detailed information about the plot.) (Just kidding, I already knew what a taint was, unlike Gillian Anderson who is clearly still enjoying the novelty of having recently found out about it.)

Here are my unedited (except for typos/some cleanup for clarity purposes) thoughts as I watched it, under a cut because anytime anyone says “lol here are my UNEDITED THOUGHTS” it should be under a cut, I feel like. Enjoy! Or don’t.

Phone: MULDER! MULDER! MULDER! MULDER! MULDER! MULDER!

Mulder: *sleeps*

Scully (very quietly): Mulder

Mulder: WHAT I'M UP I'M UP

I hope those assassins had to get out of the car and manually heave the gate out of the way like Scully did in IWTB.

Why is there an antler on the floor? Do Mulder and Scully just have...a single antler

"Accuse your enemies of that which you are guilty"?? I didn't even see that because apparently I didn’t look up either time while the themesong was playing. Also, in the grand tradition of "that with which he can't live without," this is grammatically incoherent. Good proofreading everyone

I look forward to someone less lazy than me examining every single frame of film in which the Unremarkable House appears and itemizing all of Mulder and Scully's possessions. I MAY have the same toaster oven as them?

Scully's badge number is XF072161?? What happened to JTTsomething? @startwreck did you know about this

227700 Wallis Road, Farrs Corner, VA. A real town. Google Map it, click Satellite, zoom out and note with pleasure (if you’re me) how in the exact bullseye middle of a bunch of empty green they are, far from civilization. That’s how I like my Unremarkable House.

Simultaneous thoughts I had as the second wave of bad guys was attacking: How on earth did somebody get upstairs that fast? Did they parachute in? / Look at that beautiful porchlight

Crucial Plot Points That I Missed Entirely While In Raptures Over The Mulder And Scully Goodness Of This Episode, Part 1: Barbara Hershey’s character sent this Russian goon squad. Ah.

russian guy: (mockingly) “I want to believe”?

mulder: it’s not enough this dude is about to kill me, he has to make fun of my nerd poster? insult to injury

skinner: ugh just surrender to them! it's fine

m&s: they tried to assassinate us two times

skinner: ohhhh lol sorry i didn't know they were going to do that MY bad

This order of presidents/32 32nd 34 35...stuff feels so unpolished and ad-libbed even though it's obviously plot-crucial (so I assume scripted), but it's like, they're just kinda bouncing around NEAR the lines, and I love it. And I love when Scully holds out her hand for him to supply the answer of which president FDR is and he has no idea so she supplies “32nd” and he's like “32 yeah I was totally about to say that yup” and then he forgets the number 33 exists, thus missing the clue. You're a mess, Mulder. Thank goodness for your smart wife.

Also it makes me wonder if "now you're just showing off, really" was an ad-lib of David’s because it feels like he interrupts her line; she has just said "FDR" and he says that and then she continues on with the FDR part again. scripted or duchovny? LEAVE MY JOKES IN GLEN

Them just figuring out this cemetery clue like Encyclopedia Brown GIVES ME LIFE

Skinner gave them a Leatherman? Handy/I’m surprised they didn’t trade it for more muffins

“it links to a video of the pet or person” lol

THIS SHOW IS LITERALLY SO DARK I HONESTLY CANNOT SEE WHAT IS HAPPENING; it went to commercial on a lingering shot of something and I don’t know what it was

So we kinda already knew this, but the "I'm gonna open an x-file on this bran muffin" line comes BEFORE the "I opened an x-file on this building in the '90s" line, leading me to believe that the bran muffin x-file line is also an ad-lib (in addition to Gillian’s “alien butt” line directly after, which she confirmed it was) because "opening an x-file” was on David's mind from doing the scene over and over. Scully's "An x-file?" line delivered like that's a new idea doesn't really mesh with her just having heard that term 20 seconds ago in re: bran muffins. DETECTIVE WORK

(also to be clear I’M FINE WITH THAT, leave in all their ad libs, they’re canon now, canon canon canon canon)

scully: walter we need your HELP

skinner: kids, i literally already gave you all the money I have, jesus I am just trying to go to work, can you please handle your shit

scully: we used UP all that money on MUFFINS, and we ATE THEM ALL ok those muffins were GREAT but we are HUNGRY AGAIN we need your HELP GODDAMNIT even though we don’t TRUST YOU, why are you such a JERK, can’t you just go to the ATM? UNTRUSTWORTHY

"if you want to see the x-files you don't have to go to the office" me: I do spend quite a bit of time at the office seeing the x-files though (or at least various secondary references thereto)

Mulder, after two seconds of searching in the proprietary search bar: fuck this it doesn’t work I'll just google it #relatable

Crucial Plot Points That I Missed Entirely While In Raptures Over The Mulder And Scully Goodness Of This Episode, Part 2: that the spank bank thing was a deliberate secret message leading to the Langly's girlfriend lady. (also that they kept that from Skinner)

I also missed all this Sims talk with Langly’s girlfriend, on how they would know it was a simulation. "you wouldn't be able to click on the neighbor's house" "there would be a loading screen every time you went on vacation" "if you had the pets pack installed the same dog would come every day and dig a hole in your yard" "buy mode would be disabled if there was a burglar" "you would only be able to make macaroni and cheese until you had more cooking points" "if story progression was turned on sometimes you'd go to your neighbor's house and there would just be a random baby on the floor" "blurry boxes would appear on you every time you went to the bathroom" i got a million of ’em

Lollllllll at Mulder's awkward cough after “maybe he saw Mulder in his dreams” / “Who hasn't” / Scully’s look

What’s with all the fly imagery? Two acts have opened with closeup shots of insects.

This skanky bar scene...every moment of it is a cinematic masterpiece that I will treasure forever

Scully's hilarious face in reaction to the beer is another thing I didn't notice. like, this is what you ordered for me while I was asleep? gross dude

also I love her smile as she closes her eyes again like, mulder's yappin, all's right with the world, goodnight

Langly simulation: Are you...Fox...Mulder? Something about that name...is familiar to me...as if from another life...I feel compelled to contact you though I don't know why or what it means

Mulder: Yes, it's me, and Scully

Langly simulation: DANA SCULLY?! Omg how are you girl I miss you so much! omg I'm gonna cry I’m so glad to see you how the hell are you

We're digital slaves...they force us to make grilled cheese sandwiches over and over again and every time we try to play videogames they make us study the mechanical skill instead...sometimes they put us in a pool and take the ladder away just for their sick amusement...that's not even getting into the torment that comes from the move_objects on cheat...sure we may have rosebud!;!;!;!; levels of money and I may be the mayor but aging is turned off and I've already bought the fanciest TV and the most comfy bed and I've done all the tomb quests in World Adventures and I don't know what else there is here for me...plus the game lags every time I try to go on the subway...it's hell, Mulder, hell (sorry, done with the Sims jokes now)

Scully, they don't serve mimosas on the bus; believe me, I would know.

Do Gillian's kids get freaked out hearing her speak in an American accent? No more freaked out than seeing her in a red wig i guess

JACOB JARVITS FEDERAL BUILDING #neverforget

What is with the "looking moodily out at the New York skyline at night while sipping a martini in an ’80s movie" soundtrack in this "get us in the tunnel" scene

Mulder's eyebrow raise after "married to the Bureau" *drapes it all over my body*

the clearest and largest STAIRS sign in all of history; sure half the episode is so dark you can't make out what's happening but god forbid we not know that the door Mulder's gesturing to is the S T A I R S

literally why IS mulder yelling out numbers on the stairs at the top of his lungs? he's not even counting the floors, there are 29 floors and he's like 32 34 36 38...he's counting by twos...is he counting the stairs? Why? scripted or duchovny? "glen please leave in my inane stair counting, it's funny!" "david by gum you guys are magic. magic! ok ok, no problem buddy, just keep it flowing"

mulder and scully get in like 12 physical fights in this episode. AMAZING

Ok, now here’s where I really have to pay attention because i legit did not listen to a GODDAMN WORD of this Barbara Hershey scene the other two times.

Why are there SO MANY lamps in here and how is it still so dark

"You're still refusing to answer the question of your father" am I supposed to remember what that is? Show, you greatly overestimate me

Hold on, did Scully jump some guy with a flashlight and beat the shit out of him during this voiceover and I didn't even realize it? GO SCULLY (closed captioning: “blows landing, groaning”)

Crucial Plot Points That I Missed Entirely While In Raptures Over The Mulder And Scully Goodness Of This Episode, Part 3: the entire earth is about to burn down, whoops, did NOT catch that.

"my company advised killing you" okaayyyy

Did barbara hershey ask muldo to kill csm last episode and he said he wouldn't? why the hell not? do it dude do it

"we can upload a mind through any smartphone" sure until Apple releases a new OS and then it starts lagging

“We can take a piece of your mind anytime you make a call” oh good they’ll get like 3 pieces of my mind a year then. It would be much more efficient to take a piece of my mind every time I open Hay Day

Mulder has been handcuffed or fake-handcuffed A LOT this episode. He's going to need to process this through roleplay once he and Scully get home

Is Scully using the Leatherman as a physical key to switch off a top-secret high-security NSA federal computer system in lieu of the actual, presumably very specialized, key manufactured for that purpose? It really can do anything.

I can’t tell what we’re supposed to be seeing in this conference room to indicate that it was abandoned. Barbara Hershey is gone but was there other stuff in there? Like a sign that said “THE CONSPIRACY” or something? The LAMPS are still there, I guess they didn’t have time to pack those up

There's an orange on the floor in the UH. This is a step up, nutrition-wise, from the time Mulder had potato chips on the coffee table in IWTB.

There is a basketball hoop DIRECTLY over a lamp. Really, Mulder?

Scully literally drops off to sleep in 3 seconds. all things continuity. 👏

So, destroy the backup? Does that mean there's a backup to the simulation and they’re just going to restore from it and nothing they did accomplished anything? Except for being the most delightful and satisfying episode of TXF ever filmed? Also what does the curly-haired guy being in there mean? I mean obviously he was uploaded after he died but is he in there like, tormenting Langly now? In the backup? How many backups are there? Can a Leatherman be used to defeat all of them?

I don’t care; Mulder and Scully are asleep on the couch and everything is perfect.

#this #scripted or duchovny?#so much duchovny #this is so long i'm sorry #mine

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medschoolash · 7 years

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The Tragic Story of the Starks and How it Influences Sansa

So I was rereading an answer I wrote to an anon yesterday about how Sansa would react to Jon bending the knee to Dany. I mentioned how Sansa isn’t likely to just accept being under a southern ruler because northern autonomy is too closely tied to her own autonomy.

After I had already finished my reply I also started to thinking about Sansa’s life and how it’s been affected by the iron throne beyond just her own personal experiences in Kings Landing. That brought me to the story of her family and how her family story is probably one of the most tragic examples of what happens when you don’t really control your own life and future.

The Starks were probably one of the most normal, well adjusted families in Westeros. After Tragedy struck with the deaths of Brandon Stark and Rickard Stark at the hands of the Mad King and the death of Lyanna Stark, Ned was thrust into a life he never expected to have. Almost overnight he went from being the 2nd son of a great Lord to being the Lord of Winterfel. He had to suddenly marry Catelyn Tully, who was originally betrothed to his brother Brandon.

Even though Ned’s life with Catelyn started because of tragedy and war it seems that he did manage to create a nice, relatively simple life out of it all. Ned was very respected throughout the realm as the Lord of Winterfel and the warden of the north. Besides the cloud of Jon hanging over his marriage, Ned and Catelyn grew to love each other deeply and from all accounts had a good marriage. They had 5 children together, Robb, Sansa, Arya, Bran, and Rickon, all of which were raised to be good, kind, and caring people

Robb was a dutiful older brother being groomed to one day be the Lord of Winterfel. He had a close relationship with Jon, was protective of Sansa, and looked after his younger siblings. Sansa was the perfect lady, spending her days sewing, learning about taking care of a household and dreaming of one day being a princess from one of the songs. Bran was just a boy who struggled with archery and loved to climb and wanted to be a knight. Arya was a rebellious tomboy who was close to Jon and her father and rickon was just a sweet toddler. There is a scene in the first episode of the series where Catelyn and Ned watch Robb and Jon teach Bran how to shoot his bow and arrow as Rickon watches down blew with them. Bran is upstaged by Arya and laughter ensues. Rickon helps Robb and Jon pick up the arrows and Ned retreats to go get Arya and Bran. That scene is one of my favorite scenes of the series because we see just how normal the Starks are. Ned is a stern but loving father and Catelyn is a caring and devoted mother. They were just a loving, nice, close family. They weren’t the perfect family, we know Arya and Sansa has issues with each other because of their personalities, and Sansa and Jon weren’t very close but it was mostly normal family issues. The only issue big was Catelyn’s aversion to Jon. It seemed like the Starks lived a simple, relatively quiet life in the north, a life much different than some of the other houses who were always after power and prestige. Ned and Catelyn didn’t care about the political games being played in the south, they didn’t care about jockeying for position and power. They cared about their children, their home, and the people of the North. I think on the show when Robert comes to Winterfel that was the first time he and Ned had seen each other in 9 years. So for almost a decade Ned and his family hadn’t interacted in person with the crown, despite the king being his best friend. That decade was most of Sansa’s life at that point since she was barely a teen when Robert comes. The Starks planned on living out their days in the North in peace. Sansa would probably marry a highborn Lord one day and leave home and become a mother. Robb would take a wife and have kids and take over Lordship of Winterfel upon Ned’s death. The rest of their children would probably also marry and live hopefully simple lives in the north.

Their simple life changed overnight.

Robert comes of Winterfel and his visit sends every single one of the starks into a life of pain, tragedy, and chaos. Robert doesn’t just come to visit and say hello. He comes with a request. He wants to make Ned his hand and take Sansa as a bride for Joffrey. To any other family this would have been a dream come true. The opportunity to be the second most powerful man in the realm and have your daughter married to the crown prince would be something any other house would welcome with open arms but Ned and Catelyn did not. They knew that Robert’s request would uproot the simple life they had at Winterfel with their children. They knew that with that kinda of power comes enemies and chaos.

Ned and Catelyn knew before Robert even arrives what he was after. There is a scene between the two of them in the godswood where Ned tells Cat that if Robert is coming all the way to the north that he’s only after one thing. Catelyn tells Ned that he can always say no and Ned does not reply. Later there is a scene where Ned and Catelyn are in bed and Ned tells her that he is a northerner, he doesn’t belong in Kings Landing or the south. Catelyn tells him that she won’t let Robert take him and Ned tells her that he’s the King and the King takes what he wants.

Ned didn’t agree to be hand of the king because he wanted to, he knew he didn’t have a choice. If the king asked he would have to say yes because no matter how powerful he was, no matter how disconnected he felt from the south, he hadn’t seen robert in 9 years afterall, he was still bound to the south and it’s ruler. If the King made a request he couldn’t refuse him. That inability to refuse Robert is what changed the lives of Ned’s entire family. Because he couldn’t say no he had to leave and go to Kings Landings, taking Sansa and Arya with him. That was the most fateful decision Ned had made in his life, and because of that decision his life and the life of his entire family was thrown into chaos. Ned looses his head because he went south and got thrown into a game he was too honorable to play well. Sansa was thrown into a vipers nest that she was ill equipped to maneuver herself in because she had been sheltered her entire life by her good and honorable parents. Robb was thrust into a war that cost him his life. Arya ends up living as a wanderer alone after she escapes KL and goes from one dangerous situation to the next. Catelyn was forced to fend for herself without her husband in the wake of Bran’s fall from the tower and ended up on one predicament after another until she too lost her life. Bran and Rickon, who are only children, end up at Winterfel without their mother and their father. Bran ends up being the Lord of Winterfel while only a boy and paralyzed. That lead the them being vulnerable to Theon’s betrayal and leads to their home being sacked and both of them ending up living a life on the run. Rickon later looses his life as well.

This is relevant to Sansa because as I said in that other response, the north’s autonomy is intertwined with Sansa’s autonomy. Sansa knows first hand what happens when you think you control your own future but you really don’t. She lived a perfect life in the North until Robert Baratheon came calling. Because the North was bound to the crown, Ned Stark couldn’t refuse Robert’s request. Because Ned couldn’t refuse Robert’s request the Starks lost their home, Sansa lost her mother, her father, and two brothers. Because Sansa and her family had to real power to control their destinies Sansa ended up living a life of pain, abuse, rape, and torment. That’s why this idea that the North should be okay with going back under the crown because the Starks would still be Wardens doesn’t work for me. Because Sansa knows all too well that it’s not real power, it’s not real autonomy. They could live under the crown for 20 years in peace, but if Daenerys came calling, they wouldn’t be able to say no and they would be at the mercy of the crown and all of it’s players. The Starks were good people, they were honorable people. They didn’t covet power, they didn’t abuse their power and influence. They cared for their people and the north, and their family tragically ended up paying a steep price because they were bound to a corrupt crown. Sansa lived a good life that she didn’t truly appreciate at the time and it was all ruined because they lived under a false sense of security, it was all ruined because they didn’t have any autonomy. They north is physically 1000s of miles away from Kings Landing but one person in Kings Landing made one decision that ruined the North.

I can’t see Sansa ever allowing herself to be in that sorta position again. Robert Baratheon was her father’s best friend and King. Ned trusted Robert, he cared for him deeply, but Robert was the King and Ned was still at the mercy of his decisions and Robert’s decisions ended up screwing over his best friend and his entire family and the north. So from Sansa’s point of view it doesn’t matter how trustworthy the ruler might be, or how close they are to your family. It doesn’t matter if their heart is in the right place. As long as you are bound to their crown you are at the mercy of their incompetence and judgement. As long as you are bound to their crown you do not control your own future, they control it, and they can send it into chaos at any time. Daenerys could have a good heart, Daenerys could think she knows what’s best. Jon could believe in her as well, he could care about her too, but Daenerys having that kinda of control over the North means that Sansa can never feel secure. Dany could drag them into a war if she wanted to, she could drag them into a political game if she pleases. She could change the entire trajectory of their lives with one decision and there would be nothing Sansa could do to stop it besides rebel against the crown and start a war. There is a scene in season 1 after maester Luwin brings Lysa's note from the Eyrie, catelyn is even more adamant about Ned not going south. Catelyn tries to remind Ned that his father and brother rode south at the request of a King and died, much like Sansa did with Jon this season. Maester Luwin interrupts and says that it was during a different time and with a different king. We know that though he was right, the ending was still the same for Ned. He died in Kings Landing at the hands of a mad king. It doesn't matter what the times are or who the monarch is, the ending is usually still the same for the Starks. When they are forced to leave the north they are thrust into a world that chews them up and spits them out. It doesn't matter who the monarch is, it can be Aerys, or Robert, or Daenerys. It can be during times of war or times of peace. The north being duty bound to the South tends to have the same ending for the North and the Starks and Sansa has already lost too much of herself and her family because of it.

She lived her entire life in the north under a false sense of security until a southern ruler came calling and she had to learn the hard way what her true reality was. Now that she’s regained some of what her family lost, now that she’s gained some autonomy I don’t see her letting that go because even if she carved out a good life under the crown again, her story would once again be a story or pain and tragedy in the blink of an eye. The Stark family is the biggest example of what can happen when good northern people are at the mercy of the crown and the game, and I think Sansa Stark has secretly made a promise to herself to never let that happen again. Her story will not be her mother’s, and her father’s. There has to be a lesson learned from what happened to them. There has to be a better more autonomous life in the future for her and she’s going to do whatever she has to do to make sure she gets it, even if Jon has different ideas.

#Sansa Stark #Sansa Stark commentary #prolly lots of typos but I can't proofread at the moment

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dachi-chan25 · 7 years

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Game of Thrones Season 7 Episode 6 Recap Pt. 3

WARNINGS:SPOILERS; not a D@€n€r¥$ fan; Jonsa shipper ( I still believe)

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6.- Back on Eastwatch, we have this morons trying to not freeze, too late for Thoros tho, I mean dude was a walking corpse since the Hound had his fire vision, he was completely obtuse for the plot so they got rid of him. I feel nothing. Guess his conversation with Jorah (that I totally skipped cuz boring) was heartwarmming but still I knew he was dead as soon as the bear got him. They burn his body with his own alcohol.

7.- An invitation arrives for Sansa to go to KL, amd she is like LMAO I think no you trick ass bitch, my girl is not an idiot and there is no way in hell she’ll go, if Cersei wants to make her prisioner again she can damn well bring her ass to the North and try, and she sends Brienne in her stead, Brienne doesn’t want to leave her on her own with LF, Sansa has to snap and her and basically throw her on the street to get her to go (god Jon is gonna have a hissy fit when he sees Brienne at KL and knows Sansa is alone at WF with LF) very wise decision knowing LF wanted to get Brienne tagled up on his schemes.

8.- In Dragonstone Tyrion is trying to stop D from going to the rescue cuz he doesn’t want her to die even tho he is fine with the man that volunteered for this stupid ass mission that was his idea dying (consistent characterization where art thou?) but she goes anyway cuz #YOLO

Also this unsubtle shift to white clothes now that she is gonna do an heroic thing, she honestly looks kinda like Elsa from Frozen, where does she get this clothes anyway, did she brought a new wardrobe from Essos? Are the Dothraki sewing and knitting clothes??

Where are the Unsullied and the Greyjoys????

7.- Yeah so they just kinda waiting around for their Uber, but the Hound is taking none of this boring but safe bull, let’s throw rocks at the wights for funnsies. So he does and the wights get angry? Annoyed? Who knows really? And they begin to close in our heroes.

Jon thinks they’re doomed without D’s help but Beric points put that not really (Beric and his sexy ass voice are winning me over)“as long as they kill the Night King everyone else is gonna be detroyed (this sounds waaaaaay to convinient, almost as if d&d want to get rid of the WW as fast as possible so they can focus on the political/human problems) but Jon is not so optimist. So yeah we get some fighting in, and things are beginning to look real bad for the Wight Hunters when boom Khaliisi comes in rising and burning wights (and ice) as she goes! They are saved OMG what a relief! (excuse my sarcastic ass) everyone is getting on the Dragon choo choo, except Jon (guess we’re saving the dragon riding for laters) who keeps on fighting.

Now I guess this is relevant, he thought they were doomed until D arrives, she is burning her way through th wights like you couldn’t believe and Jon is visibly relieved, he is getting the hope that maybe they can win this war, he is clearly trying to fight his way to the NK, I thought he wanted to end it right there, go for the NK and be done with it that is why he refuses to go.

Now his hopes get dashed away when NK throws at spear at Viserion and kills him, now I’m really worried, did I broke something inside me? Why is it that I don’t care? Oh right we never got a scene with Viserion alone, if he had bonded with Jon last episode instead of Drogon (Jon still thought this giant lizards ugly af tho) then Hey maybe I could have cared, but this feels like super dramatic and emotionally manipulative from the writers tbh. I feel the whole purpose of killing him off was to have "Cool Ice Dragon” and for some rushed J/D moment (I have a lot to say about it) D is stunned by grief I guess? Jon gets angry but I don’t think it’s cuz he cared about the dragon or for D, i mean of course he must have felt sympathy for her she stated that she loved them just last episode, but i think his rage comes from the frustration of knowing he can’t end this right now, he can’t prevent more people from dying and now with a dragon in the army of the dead…

So yeah Jon tells them to go away cuz the crazy ass bitch wants to die I guess, and he doesn’t want anymore Dragons joining the wights.

The lake gives away, but Jon comes out of the water freezing to death, the Wights surround him but he is too weak to fight, when BAM! Magical convinient Uncle Ben saves him, Jon is clearly surprised and emotional at seeing the uncle he loved so much and thought to be dead (dammit those Starks are hard to kill) but Benjen is having none of that cuz he has to be a martyr saving your ass Jon! So he gives his stupid ass nephew his horse, Jon gallops away while seeing his uncle dying (OK my emotions are back, I love uncle Ben even if D&D made him this protagonist characters convinient saviour).

8.- Back at Eastwatch, you know the actual castle, D is waiting for Jon looking hopefully at the horizon, while Jorah is trying to save her the heartache (I mean if this had any realism anymore Jon would be totes dead) but here he comes riding and all that jazz.

Before we dive into that scene (you know which) I’d like to stablish some thoughts:

-I believe D’s feelings for Jon are real, but they are not based in real things. First let’s ask ourselves why is she even in love (if we can call it that at this point) with him? She is clearly attracted yes, but Love is different than lust, so yeah he is a great guy I guess? But she hasn’t really seen him at that, everything she knows about him is based on the stuff Tyrion knows about him: his brothers are dead, as well as his father,he was at the Wall, he has a wolf?? I dunno if Tyrion mentioned that cuz the only one who remembers Ghost exists is Sansa, and the mystery about the dagger to the heart. And that’s where I think this fixiation comes from, this man could be her equal he is not afraid of her and stands his ground (on her POV) and maybe he is as magical as she is, Drogon let the man pet him!!!

But what she sees vs what actually is, shows she doesn’t know this man at all, what’s more Jon doesn’t want her to know him.

-She talks to him about her brothers when she is telling him the names of her Dragons, perfect oportunity for Jon to talk about Robb,Rickon and Bran(Jon thought he was dead as well) but doesn’t.

-She is talking about Ned on her big speech on their meeting, yet Jon his biggest admirer didn’t jump to defend his beloved father??

-When she is talking about her Dragons he could have very well mentioned Ghost yet he didn’t

-Davos jumped to defend him, and was telling D all Jon went through but Jon stopped him, she asked directly about the dagger to the heart and he said nothing.

-She was happy for him when he finds out his siblings aren’t dead, but Jon doesn’t show any emotion about it.

-As a matter of fact he never símiles or seems at ease in her presence. Fuck it even jondry has more build up in their two episodes together. Jon smiled at Gendry and talks with him about Ned. (not to mention Sansa, she makes him smile like no other.

It all feels almost like he has no goddamned interest in getting to know her (she is always the one to share this information without him asking) as a person, he doesn’t want her to know him. Why???

Reminds me about this quote:

“When you are attracted to people, it’s because of the details. Their kindness. Their eyes. The fact that they can get you to laugh when you need it the most.”  - Jodi Picoult, Sing You Home

Jon has never laughed or smiled near D, and that's the most telling stuff about this whole romance debacle in my humble opinion.

9.- Boat time! so Jon is just waking up (I knew my son didn't decided for himself to ditch WF and go to KL instead) and D is there (no I was just joking about the Twil1ght and 50s0g last week stop staring at people while they are asleep and shirtless is creepy) Honestly her eyes when she saw the scars on his chest made me uncomfortable (I could practically see her delusions about how magical Jon is and barfed, cuz yeah Jon is pretty magical, but the amazing thing about him is that he wants none of that he doesn't want t be a hero or a god, hells he didn't even wanted to be King!!) Anyway Jon's eyes focus on her and the first thing that comes out of his mouth is that he is sorry about Viserion?For real? Uncle Ben died to save you and you care about this? Of course not! Have some faith in Jon ffs! Goddamn it he got killed by the NW when he rushed from his office cuz Uncle Ben had returned!!! He loved uncle Ben, why would he care about Viserion?? He does not! This is another 'they are gorgeous beasts" he is bullshiting her so hard it's obvious.

She thinks he is her equal and defy her and all that jazz, but in all their interactions (except that time he said I am King to get away from DS) he caters to her, he is never sincere with her, for he has learned she doesn't listen.

She says she'll fight the WW and about how the dragon are the only children she'll ever have, doesn't mention a thing about kneeling everything seems almost too perfect, so why would Jon bullshit her?? Maybe I am just a salty shipper, but point is I don't think Jon trusts D a lot, oh yes he talked about trust when he wanted to get away from DS, and he did show trust going to meet her without weapons or a proper guard, but I stand by what I said last week she betrayed that trust the moment she called him a rebell and took his boat making him prisioner in all but name, not to mentionhe saw in frist row how she blamed Tyrion(her hand) for things going wrong and he doesn't have the luxury of having her turn on him, she is alright now but if another Dragon or one of her friends died what then? She could just go back to Essos, he can't afford that.

So he calls her Dany, and she laughs (bitch me too the fuck) but he doesn't smile at all, and he takes her hand, this gave me serious flashbacks of the Jonsa scene Back on S6 when Sansa takes his hand, or the scene from 7x01 when she takes his arm and he looks down, just his time positions are reverted, Jon is the one touching D (this gesture he has come to learn is very effective to have someone listen to you) and D looks down on their joined hands but Jon doesn't, he looks almost pained and guilty (he is an awful liar) Jon goes as far as to call her my Queen and saying he would bend. Seriously y'all think he was being sincere, why would he go from calling her stranger just last episode to being all Dany my Queen with no development in between the very next? No this doesn't make sense at all.

Why do you all think all this random ass conversations about Honor=Dead and "bending the knee is OK if you do it for your people's life" if not to foreshadow this? Jon himself said he went on the mission for the North, why would he seriously ditch his family and people for someone he just met? You can scream he is attracted to her all you want, I personaly don't see it, but it's a disservice to Jon to think he could mean any of this, he is not above using sex and romantic feelings (Ygritte) to do his duty, even if he developed feelings in the last situation he choose his duty and he will again because he loves Winterfell and he loves the Stark shipping aside. It would be ridiculous to have Lord Glover talking about foreing whores, Sansa warning about to be smarter than Robb and Ned, Tormund going on and on about Mance's pride, Jorah and Jon's conversations about Jeor and Ned and Beric talk about how thrones and Queens don't matter if Jon is suddenly gonna forsake it all in the name of a love we have no proof but Tyrion's and D&D's words (that we shouldn't trust cuz it's not likely they would give away such a twist) that it exists at all.

D eats it all up (I kinda feel bad for her, almost, only if she weren't such an entitled brat) and she tells him to rest. Jon clases his eyes and as soon as she is out he stares at the ceiling and sighs, again not subtle at all.

Anyway that is just what I think.

10.- The wights are getting Viserion out of the lake with some big ass chains, where do they even get this stuff? Hardhome? The had this big ass chains? A convinient again. Anyway so Viserion's out and his eyes open, and they are blue. Real talk the NK has had more bonding with him in this 2 min than D in all the seasons.

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That's all I hope the finale is a bit better cuz this episode was hella boring.

#Game of thrones #jonsa #season 7 #7x06 recap #part 3 #anti daenerys #anti jonerys #just in case #dachi rambles

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